C4 Right to Reply - Christopher Hitchens vs Mother Theresa

today seeking fraud and demagogue and obscurantist and a servant of earthly powers who befriends despotic world leaders in her role as the enforcer of a highly conservative and reactionary Catholic Church sir it seems to me grossly unfair that a lady who cannot fight back age safety for like His Royal Highness Prince Charles is not in a position to answer back I couldn't believe anybody could actually make a programme about mother Trey's and like that without getting her side I think the program the criticisms mr. Hitchens makes of mother Teresa are so shallow and do not stand up this scrutiny the only sense that the program makes to me is that it is a not too veiled attack on the Catholic Church the picture really made mother look quite evil and demonic something she certainly isn't she has hundreds of homes around the world looking after hundreds of thousands of people and I can't believe she is that bad I'm sorry she is no Hells Angel Mother Teresa's flagship institution is her home for the dying a hospice which purportedly sweetens the last moments of otherwise destitute lives my initial impression was of all the photographs and footage I've ever seen of belsen and places like that because all the patients had shaved heads there are no chairs anyway they're just these stretch of beds and they're like First World War stretcher beds there's no garden in their yard even and nothing and I thought what is this this is a this is two rooms with fifty to sixty men in 150 to 60 women in another they're dying they're not being given a great deal of medical care and not being given painkillers really beyond aspirin and maybe if you're lucky some briefing or something for them for the sort of pain that goes with terminal cancer and and the things that they were dying off and I thought what's point modesty simplicity humility by these canonical keywords we are taught that we may recognize Saints yet mother Teresa regards herself as mandated by heaven which is hardly modest she lends spiritual solace to dictators and to wealthy exploiters which is scarcely the essence of simplicity from it's ludicrous title hell's angel to its final exaggerated accusations Christopher Hitchens showed only that channel 4 has sunk to the lowest form of tabloid television it didn't make an attempt to present a balanced picture either of mother Teresa or of the Catholic Church in broader terms the remember of insinuations made implications for instance that her association with Robert Maxwell was somehow improper as she was shown there alongside this man known to be a fraud - let's say and the implication was that because she was associated with him that she was somehow involved in that sort of dishonesty and when I think of mother I wonder if I've done just right though i'm many miles away I can almost hear say where's my wandering for tonight Robert Maxwell's genius self-promotion made a nice fit with Mother Teresa's talent for fundraising it became hard to decide which of the two was using which was it birth or the record mother Teresa had never heard of Robert Maxwell until the day before they were introduced given 24 hours to search and find a rich person in London who had helped her to build a hospice for the dwellers of cardboard City he was the only person I couldn't say that was true of anyone but myself I haven't been for 14 years so do you think you're qualified to make such a program why did you make it I'm pre qualified yes why did you make it because I've long thought that the Niagra of uncritical publicity with which this woman has been conveyed to us is deceptive and has presented someone who is a selfless and dedicated and tireless worker for Catholic fundamentalism under the cloak perhaps thrown over her by asks rather than by herself she I think is not a hypocrite about it but presented anyway as someone who does it purely for humanitarian reasons I just don't understand why you didn't go and talk to mother Teresa and examine emotion without sauce mr. Joe Schobert his father funding arrangements Kevin hi Ruby so it's certainly true we would have been very happy to go and I would have loved to go again everything's everything we need to know about Mother Teresa we we were able to put on the on the air Roger I've been on this program before with you when you've we've had for example Camille Polly are under discussion various other formats and various other people on without walls who essentially present an essay they have a view they're invited onto the program to propound that view and usually we don't fly them anywhere we merely listen to them because it's a program that actually what it's what it wants what it expects of people his ideas thoughts new ways of looking at the world but that is not a crown to fares documentary and if I may say so it seems to me as if you're trying to set this particular without water as a current affairs documentary which it never was it was a pamphlet an essay anyway if we'd been to Calcutta we wouldn't have been sure of finding her in would we because the whole point about the film was to say this woman travels the world intervening directly in politics on the reactionary side at the invitation of conservative politicians and businessmen so you've got to be pretty nippy to capture Washington reporters that is that true let's talk about these world trousers I want to ask you specifically Catherine about the about the shots for example with Maxwell and so on why is she meeting these leaders some of which is - some of which Christopher Hitchins and other people will take exception I would say that mother Teresa is partly a pragmatist if there is money available to help the poor then she will be glad to receive it but I also feel that your crediting her with a degree of political sophistication that she simply doesn't have remarry Louden at this point was that the program you expected to see that you thought you were taking part in no not entirely what did you think you were taking part in I thought it was going to be I thought it was going to be less polemical now that's clearly Christopher's style and and fair enough but I felt I mean I when I watched it I thought oh goodness you know I don't feel the same way and of course if you're if you're involved in a program like that by proxy your scene is feeling exactly the same way as the presenter I don't I disagree with Christopher on many things but I also agree with him on some and I think some of the questions he raised were very valid but I personally wouldn't have raised them in that way can I really know can I bring in Christina because I Valdemar is saying in essence that without walls as a clear identity it sticks it's pamphleteering was that a suitable approach this pamphlet a new approach to mother teresa any intelligent investigation of any icon whether it be a spiritual icon or a cultural icon would be fine this was not an intelligent investigation you did not challenge or test your ideas against anybody else's opinion or facts and figures indeed when I had heard first about the program I I had heard that there was going to be a knocking of Mother Teresa as a Florence Nightingale who really lacked the health and medical know-how and I expected to see doctors who would speak on the program and accuse Mother Teresa of not having the right kind of medical facilities available or the medical care not at all the only people you had as witnesses against this very holy woman a woman who you know we all feel incredibly strongly about as you can see from my own anger self-righteous indignation is the only witnesses you had were a cameraman a journalist stroke writer and a writer stroke journalist quite frankly nobody from the religious market nobody from the medical environment because well there's no you say you're disappointed it wasn't about her her role as a doctor or nurse no I'm which we never Claremont remembers which we never excuse no didn't now I did not interrupt you once which we never said it was you sorry now see you're disappointed about a false impression that none of us gave you I'm sorry for your disappointment I'm sorry from Mary's disappointed it comes to that I'm sorry for Mother Teresa's innocence which is pleaded whenever she's caught doing something politically foolish what have you here is the situation she was guilty by association throughout you know interrupt you once well that's too bad you have knocked somebody who is very precious I'm saying the beginning of the show I just been repeated senses rather rather foolish criticism that we did not put both sides absolutely we set out we set out we set out to be the first media print or film criticism of this woman ever to appear we took for granted the fact that she has been recipient of what I only described as a Niagara or favorable publicity she probably is the least criticized woman on earth he's criticized human being on earth we thought we could take that for granted we put the case against we didn't pretend to do other than that what would have been lovely would to see would have been a more interesting discussion about Mother Teresa as an icon of our making can I bring it there's a pockmark I bring the file tomorrow here because there's I think a confusion here that part of the program is an attack on her as an individual part of a program is an attack on what the media is made of her but you've attacked her Valdemar for what the media is made of her not what she did all of the program is an attempt to try and give Christopher Hitchens his view of Mother Teresa platform but I will certainly accept but we we've done that with with other icons on on without walls and we've done it with other writers on without wars it is not fair to try and accuse the program of not being a current affairs documentary but can I ask about some of the techniques you used I mean take the reference to Robert Maxwell she met this person once it was arranged she talks in part for team heads about her faith the money went straight to two people in London nothing of that was in your film why not the Robert Maxwell moment I mean we played a bit of it there and we had that that rather silly country-western tuned underneath it I mean surely everybody could see that that was a farcical moment this is guilt by association and you take every photograph you can get another trace of meeting with world leaders we do some and you dump on it I've done I did a lot of things in that in that to show and in the way I wrote it to get people's attention short I've got 25 minutes to set against about 20 years worth of drenching sick of Fanta uncritical maybe sensible I get people sure I get your attention anywhere I can obviously I mock her a bit anyway so I said presumable virgin to offend people stir them up that kind so you use any sub uniques any other thing there's nothing as nothing as beneath me honor here's Tina have a last word for this part of the program I felt that this was not a journalistic investigation of is Amanda Malaysian to be it was a manipulation it was a parading of mr. Hitchens prejudices and I was so sorry to see the channel 4 was giving it any credit any time any airing for what was merely one man's obvious 15 year prejudice against a woman who's whose very mission in life who's very motivation he does not understand can I have to stop this part of the discussion here the second part after the break we'll be discussing channel Paul's general policy towards the catholic church and religion join us then someone can save you up to 1/3 on a wide range of fine fragrances who can save you up to 1/3 on fine fragrances boots how's your game dinner right alvey's with no shareholders and no Commission to metalman it's an equitable life Henry when this woman makes soups she only uses the finest hand-picked ingredients Halon water fresh vegetables and herbs that bring out the true taste of the soup and only when she's completely happy with a recipe we'll inna Baxter put a name to it Baxter suits from the family of fine foods what's the difference between the co-operative bank and the other major banks is it that we have 24-hour telephone banking is it that we have a network of high street branches is it that we have the use of over 6000 linked cash machines or is it that we promise never to invest our customers money in countries with oppressive regimes welcome back so has channel for a wider agenda to undermine the Catholic Church Viki kostik reports again this assault on the Catholic Church is only the latest to grab the headlines Jonathan pirates sexing and survival shown just prior to the Cairo population conference and Karen Armstrong's the Pope's divisions also fit a formula we're given a tabloid title with dubious connection to the content of the film we're not told anything about the presenter it is only their body language that gives their claims authority and legitimacy endless pictures of the Pope and bishops are used as if they are the church in fact two of the film's use the same very old shot of the bishops leaving --scent Peter's in Rome and all show dying babies in the third world as if the Roman Catholic Church were to blame what Pope what's st. what church could possibly withstand the channel for treatment Karen Armstrong's the Pope's divisions attack the myth of a jet-setting Pope attractive to Catholic and non-catholic alike but that too was a creation of the media she accuses the Pope of being a fundamentalist but neither explains nor proves it and when offered an opinion different to their own the program makers don't want to know myself and a number of my friends were invited to participate in a panel discussion for the program we did so and gave our contributions which could broadly be described as supportive of and loyal to Pope John Paul the second later on we were informed by correspondents that our contributions would not be included because they didn't fit in with the final version the final shape the film took I believe having seen the program that our contributions were excluded because Karen Armstrong disagrees with our views now the Catholic Church and the Pope must and do expect to be critically analysed by the media that's part of being in the public forum but I think they were right to expect two things one is that they be that they be treated with reasonable balance and fairness and the other thing is that people should be able to recognize the institution and the Pope to reach the old legions in the finished product a Channel Four's religious out recently has tended to be very critical of the Catholic Church and it would be easy enough for people to claim but therefore there is an anti Church bias in it and according to the Independent Television commissions program code a religious program it says here every attempt must be made to ensure that the belief and practice of religious groups are not misrepresented and that programs about religion are accurate and fair so how has the ITC responded to complaints about the Pope's divisions we have upheld a number of complaints about the Pope's divisions on the basis that it was unfair into the subject in what way has the Pope's divisions contravened the program code the program was too one-sided we felt the presenter had very strong views in a particular way and all the interviewees expressed views similar to hers and the net result to us was that the subject was not properly examined or it wasn't set in a proper context to be fair television seems to see the Catholic Church only in black and white the church thinks and operates in terms of millennia television understands only 10-second sound bites I feel hurt and angry about programs which continually fail to show the church that I know love and sometimes want to criticise it's easy to knock the Pope or need aging nun it's far more difficult to explain why millions of people in this country do still go to church television is showing itself incapable of representing a deeply complex institution which nevertheless still preaches high moral standards and the value of the transcendent in our lives these programs from Channel four make fools of Roman Catholics and yet to anyone with faith its Channel four that's both arrogant and ignorant are with me to discuss that report and in particular now the ITC's findings is Peter Grimm's deal was responsible for religion at channel 4 do you accept the ITC's findings do you agree with them as they relate to the Pope's divisions we've taken them on board I think we've agreed to disagree about the accuracies or inaccuracies I mean in fact when they put their original response to us they misquoted the the program when they were accusing us of being inaccurate but how about the question that their statement that it was unfair and unbalanced do you accept that it wasn't a balanced program because it was a view it was a personal view by Karen Armstrong but there's a real problem here I think for the channel attention between your responsibility for minorities and to make sure the views get on this channel that don't get on others and your responsibility to be fair so what is your policy now in the wake of the ITC finding well my view is to look at the whole totality of religious output we we are doing a program in response to these programs today what I think we have to look at is neither Valdemar I are going to stop are going to stop commissioning challenging programs and provocative program but are you going to Commission anything additional which might reflect absolutely I do already and what do the Vicki what would you like to see down well I would like to see some kind of assurance that what we'll get on channel 4 is a view of the Catholic Church which is not stereotypical which reflects the kind of church which I recognize which which doesn't continually isolate people as in two cases the Pope and Mother Teresa and issues abortion and birth control from the wider understanding of what faith is about please you have to not think that there is some kind of Catholic conspiracy going on at channel 4 I hardly ever meet Peter if you really want to know it's an indictment of the way we work but we have never actually talked about our religious programming ideas together before now but audio come out you'll eat seven three programs all your personal few programs have been antagonistic to mainstream because I was well I'm interested I'm interested in Catholicism because as a commissioning editor for arts art and Catholicism have always had an incredibly strong strong symbiotic relationship why did you say the Christopher both believers in atheist was an appropriate figure to do I thought I didn't consider Christopher's religion when I I don't actually look in to see his CV and see what what denomination he is and we don't do that I thought you all here ladies it's in some of you represent Catholic institutions one kind or another perhaps I could ask you to comment on mrs. Victoria Gillick problem lay Catholic who said that the problem with my film so the probe was our film MC meeting who said that the problem with our film was that the chief executive of this channel Michael grade is a Jew and that my executive producer tariq Ali is a Muslim now would you care to associate or disassociate o7i that is a very good tree if you equate bigotry with religious perspective what you think of mrs. Gillan just please she is obviously a bigot anybody who said what she did is a bigot but Christopher we all believe in religion we all feel insulted tremendously insulted but what you showed oh we don't believe that it's because somebody was Jewish and somebody was Muslim no one who didn't know no one's views on whether Theresa I suspect are going to be radically altered by this prayer it's really that was I don't write it anybody we were trying to raise questions like we were trying to force the reconsideration we did so by a selection of I know that evaluates of any votes different kinds Kat which taken together or singly in my submission show this is a woman with a very strong secular political worldly agenda future discussion of her will have to take this into account so we win and you lose I'm just because it will no longer be possible simply to have her bathed and Malcolm mother just kindly right final question to this size of where Peter grins Dale are you saying that as a result of this your policy will not change and that there is no prospect in the near future of a film being made which looks from a different perspective at Catholicism I think well I'm sure in fact I think I can promise you that in the next 12 months there will be another film on channel 4 that looks at a different aspect of Catholicism there is no question about that I mean I the point I'm sure you would agree with this that it is much more dangerous to do a program that purports to be balanced absolutely but where there is some kind of hidden agenda that's the dangerous kind of program the program makers who come on this program and said say we're from time to time your sake well we've done the research and this is what we found to be true you know that's where I get much more suspicious at least our programs these ones that we're talking about my parenting idea Vicki I must give you the last word just to say that we've been asked to trust and respect mr. Hitchens reputation or the Lee's not airiest nor Baldemar and I would like the reputation of the Catholic Church to be trusted and respected and that the programming of Channel 4 show that I deflect that ladies and gentlemen thank you very much I'm sorry we have to leave it there John is next week goodbye English took me to that blessed

Channel: Lost in Transmission

Views: 861,950

Rating: 4.7586679 out of 5

Keywords: Christopher Hitchens, Mother Theresa, C4 Right to Reply, Roger Bolton, Catholic church

Id: DWSU9Y2Fa8E

Length: 23min 30sec (1410 seconds)

Published: Sat May 07 2016

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

Good find. Thanks.

[u/RutlandCore]

Great watch. Thanks for putting this up /u/calculusprime

[u/TheSunaTheBetta]

Interesting stuff. I'm confused on the timeline a bit, though; Christopher, in the later years, talked about visiting Kolkata and witnessing the convents first-hand (even quips about almost being scratched by Mama T herself), which must have happened sometime after this program and Hell's Angels since he mentions he hadn't gone there himself here. Was his trip part of a follow-up article? (I vaguely remember there being a Vanity Fair piece about his trip).

[u/brainburger]

This is great thanks. He does seem a little gloating at times.