Case Study: Josh Fluke

cool okay we're live hey hey guys I have with me Josh fluke today josh is an interesting character here I was made aware of you by a video that you did how how old is that video like a few months now maybe a month and a half a month and a half okay um I did originally did a case study and a lot of people like my case studies because what I'll do is I'll take like a video and then I'll just sort of dissect it I guess from sort of a red pill perspective and I did that with Pat from tech lead and I did it with him because it was pretty cut-and-dry where you know what he was doing and what his situation was are you familiar with Pat from tech lead I think you were right yeah yeah okay and so I wanted to touch base with you and just sort of reach out and I've been sort of lurking in your your chat room for a little while just to sort of see what I was getting myself into I I was just simply gonna go do a regular just case study based on that one video but I didn't know enough and I didn't feel like I didn't feel right just like not allowing you to like to say you know tell your side of the story and everything else so with all of that that video did you say something like to effect that some of your viewers were we're suggesting my book is that is that how it happened or was this while it was happening because you're 29 now and this happened when you were 23 years old yeah I got married when I was actually like 20 21 and the MER lasts about four years and towards the end of it when things started going haywire you know started you know looking for answers then I found the book and if you watch the video basically at the end like she tries to kiss me on the lips say goodbye you know always love you my face away you know it's cuz I had already read the book okay Wow okay so I just want to sort of get some backstory here anybody who's interested I did put the video in the description here and then it's also in the chat right now so if you want to go you want to look at the actual video it's just basically your story of I guess getting together with her or was this mostly just the just the divorce itself or like the relationship that you had while you were married now now I hear there's one caveat that I think everybody needs to know that all of us went down in Finland Yeah right and you are you're an American you're from Georgia right born raised in Georgia we're about the Georgia Atlanta Georgia Wow okay and so why why did you go to Finland what was the attraction I was in I was in college in the United States and we were talking for a while maybe like a year two years before that just like online which is a joke you know I would never do that ever again but so you met her well how did you meet her on a penpal website yeah it wasn't so many red flags yeah we met on penpal website we started talking and then I tried to I I went to I went to go visit her before we got married I went to go visit her and then I came back and the first time I went to a visitor we had been talking for a couple years at that point took out student loans buy a plane ticket and go and like literally like two weeks before I go she's like oh I found a guy I'm just letting you know I'm like okay but it was kind of like implied that we were gonna be a thing you know like I didn't know what I was doing mm-hmm so I tried to refund the ticket didn't work sounds like you know what life experience I'll just go and then me white knighting it was like I'll win her over you know hmm I didn't yeah I did I guess and I thought it was a hero but like if she'll cheat for you she'll cheat on you no I mean yeah yeah yeah so how old was she when you guys you guys met like when you were I guess when you met online anyways I was like he said you were 22 21 I was probably 19 when we actually so you had something that was going with her like long before you met her like how long were you guys having this like exchanges back and forth from like two years but we actually went to go see her and then after that we were trying to figure out how we were gonna be together and I'm like a broke college student and you pay a bunch of money to get a k1 visa to bring someone here and then you bring them here and they get married and then they still have to go back and wait for their visa to process but if I go to Finland I can stay there while the visa processes and there's no like cost really you can go and go to school mm-hmm Wow and so you decided to go to Finland mainly because you wanted to facilitate this relationship with her right yep and so did you and you you got a degree there too right you were you got an engineering degree or electrical engineering mechanical engineer so you got some yeah it was free like I have some student debt from the US but I yeah like that part was free himself mm-hmm Wow what is your uh just get some backstory here you have any brothers and sisters I have a sister sisters like two years younger okay and your parents still together like somehow I don't somehow yeah I think some of that video - yeah mm-hmm Wow okay so um so you met her when you guys were in when you basically when you're in high school or I guess you would have been a senior right or you would have been just out of high school when all this went down I was a freshman community college Wow did you uh did you have ever have any girlfriends besides this one we're like in high school or anything like that so you so you already had you already had something going like here in the US right yeah I've had a few girlfriends here but for whatever reason I was just like the one you know so you bought into C bought into the soul-mate myth then okay yeah all right so I'm again I know there's gonna be people in the chat right now we're gonna be you know they're they're gonna they're gonna hit you up and say like oh your baby I get that I'm not one of the things that I think a lot of guys mistake about my work is they think that if I call you a beta or if I call you a purple pill or I say something like that that they think that that's in some more like an insult or anything that's not really my intent to likes to I don't use those terms as like invectives those are just like sort of abstractions for me just so that we can like move the conversation on a little bit earlier hundred percent yeah so so just because if anybody starts coming down on you and the Chad don't don't worry about it so yeah I get it I mean a lot and this was one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you because your situation is very common and it's not just I mean in the Internet age we can sort of facilitate things a little bit differently now because you have like a forum or whatever a penpal forum where you could sort of meet people out you know and and find each other and Ed's has this sort of you know simulated long-distance romance that she that you have and again I don't and I'm not like coming down I'm not not partial on you for any of this kind of stuff because I've known guys who back in like the early 90s did something very similar a guy who used to be a good friend of mine his name is Apple Kay he was a guy who was in he's the guy who started the married man sex life forums and he was he had a very similar story to you're saying he was in New Zealand and he met some girl in the United States and he decided to sort of facilitate his life around getting to her and starting something with her simply because she was the one right so she had this how do you like how do you think you came to seeing her as like something more than just like the girlfriends like you would have had here in the United States was it like I mean did you have any probably like religious reason that I would say mm-hmm like I didn't really know I just I hadn't talked to someone that long for two years so this wasn't it's different it's special and new yeah okay um so as far as your religious reasons was was she wait did you meet her like a religious form was that what the 4-pin vows after she was okay okay so your religious background is what evangelical Christianity like Baptist or something you're from you're from Atlanta so I'm gonna guess here yeah okay the reason I'm asking is because right now my fourth book I'm writing a book about religion and the red pill so now I have another interest in you so um so you start having this this this long-distance thing going you decide you want to go out there what jerk what's your parents say about that would your dad say about them um did they want you to do it or where they did really cater they were like what are you doing I guess but they were kind of wrapped up in their own lifes like my dad and like his job that he was working at the same time my mom was unhappy like they didn't have a great marriage so I just kind of disappeared and they were just like okay see you later mm-hmm so sort of a like a non-parent then like well I mean I guess once you get to assert once you get to a certain age I think that there's certain parents are just kind of like they they're like you're on your own kid kind of thing and Wow okay so so you get there you meet her what was it like to finally like get in touch with her and like see her in person and how did it go down did you you said so you you met her on a religious site was she like the same way as you like religiously you should have the same beliefs as you was she because you guys gel did you guys actually that point obviously enough to get married right yeah at that point like she was religious and I was religious I think I'm not so much anymore basically but but she still is and when I first got there I was pretty frustrated because she had like found a guy and I was gonna be the guy that was gonna come take her on a date you know man I was like wait I can win her over which was really you know this dumb that's a chump jump stuff so it was the first few days were weird because I was just like I'm staying in your house but you have a boyfriend but he refuses to put a label on you and this is like whatever and then she wanted to like show me around the country and go to like parks and stuff and then then from there I was just like I'm gonna win her over and then one night we're just making out in her kitchen all of a sudden you know that's oh she just decided that that you were the best option at that point I guess well she kept saying like well we don't have a label so it's fine I was like okay you know I didn't know what to think I thought I was winning but you know he's bad and so how long were you there and how did that like I mean you went from that to getting married so like what happened between there was there any like red flags I guess between between that point and like I mean well I don't know I'm not really even sure what prompted you to ask her to marry her but so it was like a another year and a half it went by when I came back after the first time I visit her I came back and it was like a year we were just chatting back and forth she came to visit me for two weeks once for Christmas met the family and then we kept trying to figure out how we're gonna make this work and marriage was like something that we like mentioned like maybe one day but then as we like went through the legal options it was like okay that's pretty this is like basically the only way that we can actually be a thing and we've been talking about it anyway so it's like might as well just do that which was like scary but for it was exciting I guess I don't know I didn't it was it wasn't good mm-hmm was she like was she like the hottest girl you'd ever been was like she like know the pinnacle was she like the top of the thing so so like would you say that you did this because you had like a sense of duty to late just a to to try to make it work like you felt like you it was like sort of like an obligation on your part yeah it was like I'm gonna come there like you're you work as a hairdresser I'm gonna come and I'm gonna go give that mechanical engineer and be the provider mm-hmm paycheck you know Hanna the house type deal and that sounded really appetizing I guess but the reality of having to go through that was yeah nostril appetising okay so so you made it work out you decided you were gonna go out there and get the degree in mechanical engineering degree in Finland how did you facilitate that did you to just fly out there you said you're gonna live with her and you guys got married do you get married and like some kind of ceremony to just had like sort of a civil we did twice so when I first got there you have well just when you just have a regular passport you just have I think you have 90 days you can be in the EU before you come back um so we went we went to a little courthouse we got married I had to go get a I think it's an app estill piece of paper from a courthouse in Georgia to take that to Finland and tell them like hey I've intend to get married here and we went to the little courthouse and we got married and then I was just kind of in this limbo phase where I couldn't work or do anything for like two months because they had to get the visa ready mm-hmm I had to take an entrance exam I'd like I had to basically like restart college because they wouldn't accept anything from the u.s. to transfer over until you take the entry exam and get in and then they'll consider it later and so you did when you finally did get married you were living with her in her parents place no she had an apartment she was living on her own she was doing here oh yeah and how now she was way older than you - right that's the one part that we're I think we're missing here how old was she when you got in there you were 23 how old was she when you got married um 28 28 okay so there is a good five years between you maybe six years closer to six years so she was older than you and she was living at home and still while you guys were sort of having this online thing together she was still living at home and not on her own she was on her own home so you were living basically in her apartment while you were going to school and all this was going down pretty much I mean the part in the video that I didn't mention is that when you go to school as like a finished resident which is what I was considered I wasn't a citizen couldn't vote but I got all the other rights they give you 400 euros a month to me just for free not like a loan you don't got pay back they just give you that money but I couldn't access it she wouldn't show me how to access the banks to get in to manage the money or anything like that and I try to get a job which I didn't say video she she stopped me I was like hey they're not hiring me because my finish isn't good enough can we just like practice at home please don't speak English to me anymore just speak finished 100 percent of the time so that's what I would do and she'd get frustrated because you're too stupid I'm just gonna speak English you know hmm and I was like okay well I'm gonna I think we're better I'm gonna I'm gonna fill out the application again you just look it over real quick for me she's like no you need to study it's because I think she like that kind of like power mm-hmm yeah she was older than you too so there's something going on hey so that's that's really interesting to me because so here she is 28 years old here you are third 23 years old she is entering what I would call the Epiphany face I'm sure you probably read that part in one of my books there so that's that's interesting to me because that she would go and consider you do you think she was trying to use you to get into the United States or you think like she had some other motive to to marry you and keep you around no she never she never wanted to come to the u.s. I think after she came to visit a few times she was like no this is this is too much when we were married once we came back first summer and she's like I hate the culture shock I never want to come back here and she wasn't really interested in like the citizen or the visa aspect of it I think it's just I'm not really sure yeah why yeah well maybe she thought you were like a boy toy for a little while I mean maybe at least she said some weird things dude like it's like was she she would constantly compare me to other boyfriends that she would have and we were in a movie theater line once and she she taps me she's like hey I used to I used to do that guy and I was like why telling me this you know it's kind of weird what and like she was like tell me sighs and all these details that like why do I care you know why are you doing this are you doing this - like prompt my emotions or like what do you what do you want from me cuz I'm pretty like even-keeled I think and I win like hindsight like I should have just put my foot down and like hey stop this crap but you probably would have got off on that - actually it sounds like she was looking okay so like from what I got from like we're getting into the part right now where you were talking about some of this stuff in in your video what I got from a lot of your what you were the details anyways that you were saying um was that seemed like she was looking for somebody who was a little bit more dominant like maybe she thought you were gonna be a certain way online do you think you like do you think you were a certain way while you were talking to her like long distance as opposed to like you actually having a live day-to-day with her Oh 100% like I wasn't prepared for like any of the culture shock they don't do small talk I was like I'm gonna start a blog I'm gonna start YouTube then and I'm gonna go like explore every day and I'm gonna find places I'm gonna like take you and like look at this and I didn't do any of that because I'd have any money I know the language they don't really want to talk to you in English and you know maybe it sounds like excuses but it was like a lot at once and so I didn't do that I ended up just like playing video games with my friends that were behind eight hours mm-hmm so that's and she got pissed off at you for playing video games yeah yeah I mean it wasn't like all the time there was a point where I was just like really sad I guess really had a like a low point and that's what I would do I was like I'm failing school this doesn't matter I have no like a I don't know what I'm doing you know marriage is bad I'm just gonna play video games it was like the escape like yeah there was there was a period of time but it wasn't like the whole time towards the end I got everything together was like gym everyday you know a few hours a day and I'm not playing video games unless I literally have done everything I have to do and maybe for 20 minutes you know but yeah but that was enough to set her off yeah Wow okay so like okay so what we're like some of it I want you to sort of like go into some of the detail that you're talking about in your in your video here like what was like you were saying like she she had you like on an allowance you wouldn't let you have money or anything like that it was almost like you were sort of a kid living in this person's house a lot that's what I got pretty much from that video that was like she'd be like okay I put money in your account so that you can have lunch and then occasionally she wouldn't and I haven't asked and I'm like hey can I have the money that's in my name anyway so like can you just show me so I'll manage it and you don't have to manage the finances I know you don't like messing with the numbers I'll do it it's fine you just help me no I do it okay so it was uh I wouldn't even say wasn't allowance she just let me know ahead type much money but you can only get the little meal today or something it was literal lunch money for school tell me okay well you only have this much blah blah blah like it was in terms of money spending it was always like hey I want to buy this thing she's like we don't have money for that I was like okay well like I'll learn it just like help me get a job like I don't have issues working is fine no you shouldn't you need focus on studying hmm so it almost seems like she was looking for you to be to step up she was looking for you to be more alpha right yeah and here's a here's the thing that gets me is like when I when I see you do your your video so I give you a pretty popular channel okay and when I see you do what you do very well on YouTube and all this other stuff like I see like a different side of you man I like the guy that you're like describing right now does not seem like the guy that I see on your videos like you're very you're very socially very outgoing you very like I mean seem like you're very on top of your game now is that a result of like this experience or were you more like that it's just like you got into this situation with a woman where you sort of like resigned yourself to the role that she wanted you being it was a result of the experience 100% like you read read your books start reading you know forums subreddits and all that stuff and it was a I was I was a chump I just named like I was 100% chump like JC dent and the chat it's like he's like this dude's beta bit like it's cool 100% I was like am I now no I don't I get married no one's living here like at least I would say that yeah yeah I want don't worry I'm gonna give you a chance to redeem yourself right now I know it sounds like I'm like this is like really bad and everybody's like oh my god look here's the thing is one of the things that I run into when I'm trying to describe guys in your situation like people always wonder well why you know we're all wasting Lucy's time with this guy why is well like describing this or I can't believe like guys who become red pill aware guys who've read my book whatever they they get to a point after like a couple of years where they're like I can't believe anybody is like that I can't believe this guy couldn't have seen all these signs right where he went and he lived like this and I think that like sometimes really particularly I don't know how far along you are with reading my books or and who do you know anything about my work or the mascara red pill or whatever but like there's there's a point where where we kind of have to remind ourselves what we used to be like so that we can sort of help other guys out that's why the reason I want to reach out to you so like just doing what I did with like Pat from tech lead is I think we need to like put ourselves in the understanding of what it was like to still be blue pill and still be kind of beta and still be kind of lost in that and so I'll talk to guys who are like really suit like last week I had an interview with with Andrew Tate and you know very very alpha guy has his together really you know he he is who he is right but like I'm gonna talk to him about like you it would be like he wouldn't know why I would be talking to you or like why I would like want to spend the time is sort of like unravel all this stuff that you that you're relating to me right here and the reason I'm doing that is because I don't want people to think like you know if I call you a bait or if I talk about you being a bait like you just said right now you know I was bait out so Chum that's good because at least then you you have some awareness of where you're at right now on what you were like before and how you got in but it's very important to understand how you got into those situations so you can have want them in the future which it sounds like you have we're at right now so all of this is going on when you're 23 years old so you're living with their day-to-day and this is the what was there anything else I feel like I'm missing something else from that from the video like what else she pulled on you but like at this time was she's trying to like this is really weird to me because I now I have to sort of process that you guys were both in sort of this religious thing to like was was she really sincerely religious and her convictions with all this er was that sort of pushed to the side because her like I guess sexual imperatives with you or like you know having a relationship I seem like all that was just convenient to sort of facilitate something with you it was a lot of cherry-picking right covered in tattoos you know like I would just say like cherry-picking so like I wouldn't say that had too much to do it was kind of just she was religious when it was convenient I guess is what I would say but she pulled a lot there's a lot of like gas lighting lots of gas lighting no matter what I did is always my fault occasional the occasional reward you know to keep you in the feedback loop and you know she like would you know like plant she liked plant candies around the house and she'd plant them next to like the birth control condoms and stuff and if like she would she would know if I took it she would know if I took it and then she would be like well why did you need to go there if I wasn't here you know like why are you why are you getting comments I'm not here it's not whatever and if I don't take it I take all the other ones she knows I found it and then she's gonna like laugh it off right so she that she played those games with you like so so she would put the she she wanted to like instigate or some say here's this is interesting because this is the part of your story where I think something in her hindbrain kind of said I gotta get out of this and so she was trying to find ways and correct me if I'm wrong but she was trying to find ways to to split up with you to make you look like you were the bad guy yeah that's exactly what I would say 100% like she was I to this day the only explanation I've ever gotten was we're different people but I started to realize that like she's okay she's doing these things because she needs a reason to tell her friends and family that I've done something so she has a legitimate reason besides like you know cuz everyone else is just gonna be like we'll go to marriage counseling for whatever other reason that she would give you know so she needed to find something like infidelity or something like major to tell her friends and family that I'm like a bad guy and I started realized this I was like okay and play the game that's that's fine but I have like a year of school left I'm not gonna take the bait because I have to get this degree because if you kick me out and I don't get the degree and I'm like 98% of a degree that's not gonna transfer back to the United States and I have to start over again or at least where I left off and I don't have any of it yes mm-hmm Wow okay so so she started playing these games because of what I think happens and this is what I'm glad we were talking about this too because it was at this point when I was watching your video where I realized that it is most likely she was very much a DPD do you know what BPD is borderline personality disorder mm-hm and it seems like she showed a lot of signs of a class of BPD now the fact that she was a little bit older than you kind of kind of weirds me out a little bit and the fact that she was in her epiphany phase sort of throws me off a touch because usually women and their epiphany phase are looking for guys who are older than they are so I'm wondering if she was just doing this because she got into a bad situation as she was looking for convenient ways to get out my other question for you is this is like you as far as the religious side of things did you like go to church together well you guys were in Finland and you guys were married well you said you also had a religious ceremony after after this yeah we have I feel typical like regular just church ceremony except you know her side was like friends and family my side was just empty it was just like me at the altar just because no one no one came and I would say like her parents were probably really religious they went to church like every Sunday Monday Wednesday small groups whatever we didn't really um because I didn't really I don't really want to go and that that was like a big upset but I was like I have to focus on his test at the school stuff like hey this is cool we could focus on this but it was way more important to her than it was to me how many uh how many years did this go on like how many years were you guys married five five years Wow so you're 28 and that's when you guys got divorced or when you decide to call it off hey Mary when I was like 20 or 21 and the towards the end of when I was almost 25 25 okay now I'm 29 No and so this was like four years of this stuff then yeah it was a lot yeah see that's an that's another reason why I wanted to talk to you because I did something very similar when I was between the ages of like 23 26 27 somewhere in there that's when I was with my own BPD's experience at that time and a lot of what you are talking about here her behaviors and all that really coincide I think with what my BP do as well so that's why I've just so you know that's why I wanted to talk to you personally here so how did it end how did what was like the the end like wouldn't you decided you know I'm out of here I think you said something in the fact that you had to it was either do or die right you did 40 we've at college for four years learning all this stuff no because I failed the entrance exam so I had to wait like eight months and then they give you the results and then they told me I got in and so there was like this whole time where I'm not in school and I I can't work because I don't know finish well enough yet and so that was like she provided for everything and I we were just trying to figure out what I was gonna do if I didn't get accepted which is like go to these little community finish classes then you go bag groceries I guess I mean mm-hmm and that was that was terrible because she had to work and I there was not much I could do just be a stay-at-home husband I guess you lean the house and make food and stuff you know try to do what I can it was bad you know like I probably thought I was like her kid and that's not what I wanted you don't want that experience at all but like no one would hire me like I was thinking of all these things I could do it was like how can I make money in the u.s. and transferred to myself here finland's that way I got paid for stuff she doesn't feel like a mom you know mm-hmm but like towards the end to your question it's like six months left and she just one day I was on the computer writing up my my final project and she like slammed down a piece of paper that said like hey sign it I was like what is this and what I what I didn't say in the video which I remember now is I started finding books with the word arawa on it which is like to divorce and finish but I know what that word was I just saw all these books that were on it like in her like little totebags around the house I was like what is this I started googling it I was like divorce and then he's fine like you know what what God thinks of divorce and like all these other how to divorce and international divorce and I was like wait what is what is going on here so I didn't say anything to her as she thought it was too dumb to read it basically but I started talking my friends about and they're like yeah this is definitely like she's she's planning something so she came up she pushed put a piece of paper on the desk it was like hey signed this I was like what is this but I knew what it was I just wanted to hear her say it she's like we're just different people and was like I'm not signing this get this and get this out of my face I'm like I signed up to be a husband we'll figure it out you know we'll work it out I I didn't want to go to like marriage counseling because like right let's stop before toll yeah yeah and so I was like we'll figure it out and I saw like I was like you know what fine I'll sign it but I was really scared because I had six months left of a visa in six months of school so as soon as I signed it I was like okay now I'm gonna get divorced now I have to graduate and I don't have a job lined up so that's a few big things here and I don't know how I'm gonna handle that so I have like a you know like a breakdown was like crying and I just like put it off the table because I was like what is this mm-hmm yeah oh okay so and then at that point she just says this is gonna happen and like you were saying I think at the end of that video you're saying good that you didn't know whether or not you guys were even still married right now because it was never like official at the end no she okay so she came back like like three weeks left and she came back to me and she said I lost the I lost the paper I never filed it I was like what so I recited another one and I graduated had a job lined up here in Utah where I live and then I came back and like I don't know it was like two weeks later she hits me she was like hey I need 300 euros to finalize this thing this divorce I was like I don't haven't got paid yet haven't had my first paycheck yeah I don't you start work till next week she's like okay fine that was that was the last time I talked to her so I have never seen the divorce papers but like we never wanted kids so that's a good thing right didn't have kids um she can't get really like alimony that's not really a thing I didn't have anything for her take like a old computer um but I think even now if she wanted to come to the u.s. I'd have to sign off on that as like a supporter while her visa processes which is not gonna happen so you know I'm only legally married there here in the US like I filed single I tried to I wasn't sure if I was married I wasn't sure so when I first got my first paychecks at my first job when I was doing the w-2 and I was filing my taxes the first time I tried to file married because I figured I was like well maybe it hasn't gone through and then it started asking all the questions like her her like a TI n number I guess or her Social Security I'm like well she doesn't have either of these because we never went through that process so I have to file single so that's what I am and that's what they've recognized me as so I guess this guy's here saying that she was a BPD cougar with a mommy syndrome she had a clinical need to manipulate and control you above and beyond normal woman behavior yeah it's funny whenever I talk about BPD a lot of guys don't believe that there is such a thing as BPD because a lot of the behaviors that women manifest like today because of entitlement because of just empowerment and everything that that those behaviors are just simple normal natural female behaviors if you don't keep them under control if you don't have some sort of I guess control over that but like I I disagree with that I I've read enough about borderline personality disorder to know the signs now and I've lived through that did she um like when you guys were together did she have any other boyfriends or was she like trying to like get with other guys while you guys were together um I don't think at least I wasn't aware of it there was one weird time which is like I'm gonna go see my friend that I used to date like way way way back and this is like marriage is already like complete trash at this point like we're on the rocks hundred percent and she came back at 3 a.m. and she smelled like cigars and wine and she's like don't worry he was we were the balcony and that's what I smell like and I was just like don't touch me hmm and that was yeah I mean so that's really like one of the only times I'm like aware of her going to meet another guy but other than that I never I never like shouldn't have like tinder on her phone or anything there wasn't any signs like that but she tried to catch me cheating I went on a date with a Norwegian girl when I was in high school and she was like you know cuz they're bordering countries at the North she was like hey uh how's the marriage going how's Finland how you enjoying the culture of Scandinavian Northern Europe and I was like it's cool Finnish people are cool but I mean we're probably gonna get divorced and that was like a year before we actually got divorced and she saw that message I don't know six months after that happened and she's I think I don't know if you remember this part in the video but I walked in from school one day and my pc monitor was off and my computer was off and I usually leave them or they were both on my bed yeah they were both on and there was a little note card like tucked in like the bottom of the monitor and it's like go be with that Norwegian you know profanity lots of profanity mm-hmm and I don't care and she was like laying on the bed behind my computer just crying I think it was fake crying like it was just put on show is pretty good and then I was like so you went through my computer first thing I was like you what there might be she's like no I just I just moved the mouse and it came on I was like now I keep my computer on she's like well okay I turned it on and then I I went to look up something and your Facebook came up and I was like nope didn't have any browsers open and that's not how it works well okay so I try to log into mine and it logged into yours I was like no my passwords not saved and and you would have to like go searching for these messages you know and she's like okay fine I went through and I found the messages and I just wasn't sure what was happening between you and her because of us in blah blah blah and then she started laughing she went from crying to laughing in a span of five minutes of me like calling out her BS and yeah I was BPD right there it was very is is very interesting like she was like literally trying make me feel like I had cheated when I was like no no you just went through all of my stuff without reason and lied about you gave me the old Trickle truth you know mm-hmm and then she was laughing and she's like it's fine I just didn't know it's just you know and then she tries to reward you with you know yeah and so I was like no yeah okay Wow yes to me that is classic BPD right there to like sort of go from hot to collide I think really at that point she was trying to find some like tricky way to at least put you on the spot to make it seem as if you were the problem so she would feel more justified in the divorce that she was probably already planning most women will plan a divorce or plan a break up long before guys even aware of it like you said you say you started to see these books around the house and you she thought you're too stupid to like figure out like what the the finish word for divorce yeah okay so now towards the end of this when you'd sign the paper and everything and you'd finally finish with college and you're just about to get out what was a relationship like at the end when you could sort of see the end is near and did you say something makes she she decided to sort of do a 180 and suddenly she's I'm gonna miss you or now now that you're leaving this is more real for her so she it was only on the final day only on the actual day already and now you had read my book by this by this point yeah yeah no I read I read like five thousand posts on the subreddit look like I was uh that's what first day I wake up sit on the bus to school and just read that every day just to figure out how to come home and deal with myself how to be better how to not be such a chump anymore you know so I started lifting it's why in shape I was like I'm gonna be back on the market I don't want to date this like no one else is gonna want to touch this so I've gotta get in shape like I'm gonna at least have a decent job lined up because it'd be some money for my age so it's already I did like a 180 and it wasn't like I started showcasing that in the relationship and like she tried to strike get it on once and I denied her I was like no please don't touch me how do though yeah you can and we all know how that went down you know like to lose her mind rejecting me never rejected me ever in your life and I was like no no it's fine I don't wanna I don't wanna this starfish I'm good thanks you know like it was a I think it was like it maybe was like too little too late but even though I want that anymore I was like I'm over this I got stuff lined up and so she realized that once I was like no no no it's done it's fine I don't want to go to counseling anymore I don't want to do this like it's fun I signed papers whatever we're done like well like go driving to the airport I'll say goodbye your family and I'll leave and that's it but like she would insult my future prospects that's what she did once I once I firmly established that's like we're done I'm never gonna do as good as me is that yeah she's like you have a finished degree it's not gonna be worth anything you're gonna and you're gonna have to work it at Walmart you might have to work it waffle I was like nothing against but like she said that those words really I remember it was uh she just insult anything that I ever had lined up she's like how she's still concerned with like that's interesting that's that's that in fact that's I think more of the more fascinating parts of this whole story is like here you have this this woman who has pretty much berated you for most of year most of the time you guys have been married she thinks you're too stupid to learn finish all of this and yet Shh at the end she's more worried about you becoming successful or you like she's trying to discourage you from thinking that you could be anything more than what you were with her that's fascinating because with that what that kind of says to me is like from a woman's high pergamus nature there is that doubt and I've said this on a million different shows before as a hypergamy is based on doubt it's based on one question and it's is he the best I can do and it sounds to me she's sort of trying to like justify this in her head like okay he's leaving but he'll never be anything so this is a good thing but yet there's still that doubt like he actually might do something he actually might be the guy that I wanted him to be before but now he's gonna now he's done with me and I'm not good enough for him and so he's gonna animal of course it didn't work out that way for you as well but to me what that says is that's that sort of that it's almost like soft dread it's almost like she's like thinking is he actually somebody that I should be staying with and that's so at the end what what did she do at the end like when you're getting on the plane yeah so she trying to kiss me on the lips and I was just like no please don't touch me bye hmm Thanks that was it and then I went up I went up little escalator and I look down in the glass and she was just like bawling just having like a total complete breakdown I was just like who's this girl over here you know like I hope I was so free for the first time so I went to go talk to like every single girl I can find at the airport I was like oh what's up you know it's like I was she tried to prompt me - yeah yeah - drag you back into the to the madness well Wow like towards the end when I was like kind of showcasing like this is fine whatever you know I'm done I'm just focusing on me right now we've we've already been through the emotions I'm just over it she was like promptly she's like it's fine you know even though we're still married you can just you know download tinder it's fine I was like no hmm not giving you a reason not gonna happen it's a lot just you know just be safe you know just make sure to wrap it up no I'm good I'm just gonna finish school and bounce like she really needed a reason I guess to tell people it's like like I said like to this day all she said was were different people mm-hmm that's all I got and you haven't talked to her since then it's like a complete she's just erased she just deleted her from your life yeah she asked for a couple hundred euros to finalize the divorce even though I don't know if that's legit or not maybe she felt owed or something but that was it after I said no she's like fine and then a bunch of profanity oh wow wow so that's that's fascinating that last part there is what even when a woman is BPD like what I see when I I don't think I've ever actually had an actual episode about BPD but when I talk about BPD I I look at it as if the woman is sort of like a parasite and that parasite has to have a host and that it's not like a symbiotic like parasite thing where it's like one you know benefits the other it's just sort of this this host that she has to sort of cling on to for her like emotional needs and to you know just sort of feel better about herself it seems to me like she was like that she had a um like what was her family like was her family kind of messed up or um her dad actually I've never thought about till now but her dad was blind and her mom was like a caretaker for him and there was a lot of moments where like you could see him wanting to do things like be like the man of the house cuz mmm but he couldn't as he was blind and her mom was nice but there was a few times where I could see like similarities she would lock herself in rooms and start crying and throwing fits like actual toddlers do and I would look at her mom be like you want to go talk to her I don't know what I did again but and she's like no no she's fine she'll come back out when she's done and like it's like it never happened but her mom was nice to me her mom like helped me out with with money when she wouldn't give me money but at the same time I could see the relationship of like they didn't know how to handle their emotions you know it was just like get mad scream yell call someone a bunch of names and then act like it never happened because you're done hmm yeah a here says Josh did she ever self-harm or self-sabotage for attention mmm I wouldn't know like no self-harm really but one day she had pretty like long hair you know I mean like she's cute but one day she came in she like shaved her head off colored her hair purple she's like don't I look hot Wow and like what do you say what do you say would you marry like mmm you just came in one day colored red purple and shaved it off I guess if this is what you like that's what I said there's something like that well I don't know if that's like self-sabotage but she didn't like sounds like sounds like self-sabotage sounds like she's trying to get a rise out of you Wow so she's very much piece of work bro from what I can from what I can gather she was very much a piece of work I think it's it's didn't see this is why I wanted to talk with you because like when I was when I was doing the breakdown of path from technically I could sort of get an idea of what his whole situation was like because he was with a you know a Japanese woman he had this traditional you know family where you know they another you know culture that doesn't really process their emotions very much and so one day he just finds like his wife has taken her son and gone back to Japan and now suddenly he's divorced and it's just like it was a shock to his system but I think he probably knew it was coming but I that's that's that's fascinating so as far as your your situation now like you you're here and you tell you got a job you it seems like things have changed for you a little bit like now you're 29 I guess you probably how long did work in this job okay so I moved here I worked as a mechanical engineer corporate you know corporate cringe it was like not my cup of tea so I learned how to code and got a bunch of code jobs but the code jobs never held up because I worked at startups and then I got my last co drop and a co job and did YouTube on the side until I quit my code job and now I just do YouTube and my own website and stuff so and so that's that's what's been paying the bills I guess are you and see you got your one are you dating again are you are you out doing things or I had a girlfriend when I first got here I had a girlfriend for a while like few years pretty decent I think she cheated why I can't say that she cheated but she flew across the country to go meet a guy on spring break and then I found the plane ticket and it wasn't it wasn't to Florida where she says she was going and so then that ended like I don't know it was that like six months ago seven months ago I guess but she used to shoot like she'd moved out she moved in with me not like for a while which like that's never happening again you know like I was doing okay I thought was even okay I was like never get married again I'm good you know like and then like there's a girl living with me you know like it's just uh but am i dating right now like I guess so it's just it's hard it's hard some girls I've had some girls ask if they come on the livestream I've had some girls asked I'll shout out their Instagram it's very nutty they're still still looking for that that plug from you know yeah it's weird it's just uh once once they realize I do YouTube for a living and I don't live in my mom's basement and like I own a house and I have it together you know then they're like oh how are you no no no okay whatever it's like that's how you want to be that's fine you cute let's go on a couple days but this other girls cute too you know mm-hm these have that's how I do it now so how is has this experience sort of like put you in a different frame of mind when you're like meeting new girls or when your wife I guess you had that girlfriend before like guys I I mean I I think you're a really interesting case study here because you actually have been reading my book you've gone through sort of a really bad situation you come out at least from what I can tell on top I think it's really fascinating that she you're your ex-wife now was still sort of doubting whether or not you were a good long-term investment that she thought you were gonna be but since then since you've read my book since you've had all this experience as it like sort of put you have you changed like have you changed into somebody that like you could see with the way that you were before I'm like who you are right now I was a god I would go back in time just you know that slaps crap out of myself and that I was doing good and I was like okay well step one you know I'll never get married again and then I mess up I get a girlfriend she moves in with me you know like what have I done and then you like you realize what has happened and then she's like let's get married no we're not not not getting married again like I can look back and see all the mistakes that I made and now I just fly solo and that's how I do it when you're in Salt Lake City - so that must be a real interesting sexual marketplace there for you I'm like dude don't it's not it's not fun yes it's not fun yeah so and I take it you're not Mormon no I'm not yeah yeah Wow so that's that's yeah and then I take it they don't party too much there and Salt Lake City yeah they only have but I did I've done I've actually done work in Provo Utah before I've never I never did any like any long-term work in Salt Lake but I have done work and Provo and that is like a real tough gig but in my line of work which is wine spirits mm-hmm because okay well if you're in that then you know there's only like state liquor stores here it's awesome like you can only get 2% or 3% beer from the store unless you if you want the real beer you have to go to that the cut like I've found it like there's a huge like divide in Utah you're either really devout or you're kind of like on the party side and finding moderate people it doesn't really happen too often mm-hmm but it's a it's just like a lot of weird things like I don't know when the last time you were here but if you go to a restaurant like Applebee's which has a bar inside of it they have this they have this like college-ruled white piece of paper like stuck against the door that goes in that says this is a restaurant not a bar and just big black letters it looks so you know like mmm it's not doesn't look professional or anything but it's required by the state and then if you go to the bar says this is a bar not a restaurant oh also you have to order food before they'll give you any alcohol it kind of ya know Utah's one of the worst control states in the Union Arkansas is another one of those places where you gotta have to like sign in so they know like if you're going into a bar you have to put your name I like sort of this ledger kind of so they know that you're sitting there and you're not gonna you know like they they're worried I think more about like lawsuits against the bar hmm so like if you go a tennessee's this way too like if you go and you you buy liquor and you drink it and you get into you got a DUI they don't want you to sue the bar or the place that sold you the liquor that put you in that state so that you got into that that's why they do all that kind of stuff it's weird like oh gosh I could I could probably do a whole show on just just like compliance laws for ever alcohol blow people away so anyways so what's now what's what's next for you are you you're you're in the gym you said something in the fact that you went and um you you kind of blew up a little bit when you were married and then now you've sort of trimmed down a little bit like you do candy I was a planet like I was huge 2:42 that's pretty big I did the body fat test that's somewhere like 35 percent body fat slim down a bunch went to the gym a lot now the gym you know it's just like brushing your teeth you don't think about it you just do it um that's I mean I think I'm I'm doing okay but the chat chat is very gosh chad is mean but welcome to my welcome Mike Schadt world here that's all good I get it so do you think do you want to get into another relationship like you're you're getting close to like if you read my book you read my second book you already know what I'm gonna tell you is like you're your sexual market value peak years are gonna end up being probably even mid-30s right now and it looks like you're headed you know you have got some skills you've got a degree you can if you did if you weren't doing you - I'm sure you'd probably be doing something else maybe not in Utah but like what do you have plenty of plans you have something that you want to that you're working for right now like what what are your goals now that you're sort of free and clear from this because I lot of guys will will get into these really bad situations and it kind of consumes their lives and so once they get out of it and or if they get zeroed out as a result of that experience they don't have anything to do once they're out of that like do you have any plans do you have anything you know yeah I guess most of it I wouldn't say it's like chasing money but it's just like growing what I do getting better at what I do cuz I like I I do YouTube ad revenue but I like I'm not trying to like plug or anything but like I have the website and affiliates and other stuff and just grow those things and so that I can be I want to sit like passive income you know but like its passive never really passive but just growing those things so I don't have to I guess it's just financial stuff like not having to think about where my mortgage payments gonna coming from because I own a whole apartment complex or something you know that's like mainly business and financial goals but I date around but nothing is like it's always like there's no us this like this is not like there's never gonna be in us this is like we can have some fun like you're nice like I compliment you you compliment me but I'm doing my own thing at the end of the day like if it's you or my own thing I'm doing my own thing so you're finally it sounds to me like you're finally making yourself your own mental point of origin like maybe before when you were younger did you feel like I didn't know if I ask you this turn out like when you were younger did you feel like it was like your duty to get married like you he said you said she was like you're what you were talking about one itis you'd say I'm like maybe she was her soul mate or whatever and you had to fly across clearly you went flew across the country for all of that do you think you are making her like you're your primary focus in life yeah yeah yeah she was she was the origin like not me I actually I see I've used that quote in like others of my videos there's a few where I'm like you have to make yourself your own mental point of origin like word for word because that's what I do it's always about what I'm going to do and how I'm going to grow it's like I see some people in the chat they're like you need other stuff so I just financial but like I do have like personal goals like like fitness goals and stuff like that like meeting people that I've always want to talk to like like you like I didn't think that you would ever feel like a trash you know I just keep it on the very low yeah I just I keep it on the down-low that you know because of what I do I don't talk about it too much like you go look at the comments of the video I'm just like I wish I could just respond to all of these but it wouldn't have any context to them yeah I think a lot of like a lot of these guys are you know I get it but I there was one here just a minute ago or so you know it takes all the balls to come up and like admit this and tell this story it's tough man it's tough to to say yeah I was I was pretty much at her beck and call I was I'm like when people ask me like they'll say oh well Rolo you do you know I've been married for 23 years I've got a daughter I've got you know I've got it I've got what I think most guys would consider an ideal marriage but like so people will think well that's just how you are that's that's where you're at you don't know what we're going through whatever second on the ends like I have been exactly where you are right now and and you and during the same time of my life as well I gone from being a very sort of beta blue pill high school kid to being in my la rock band era I was very much an alpha during that time then I met my BPD girlfriend and I went from being sort of this happy-go-lucky alpha guy who was happy to got most of my 40 notch counts during those years and then I don't think people really understand how you can go from that to becoming something else to becoming like something as low as like where you were or where I was during those years because you still cling to those basic understanding or like that the things that you were taught as a child the the understanding that you should make other people your priority or you should especially in a religious sense that you should like live to serve you know like it's your duty to think think of others before you think of yourself I'm sure you probably heard that a million times in church that's tough especially for guys because guys will say well if I if I reduce myself to a certain point then I will get it back right it'll be reciprocated back to me so if I if I do what I'm supposed to do then I will succeed or I'll be rewarded as a results of this and it takes like living to really you know understand that that's not always a case like you need to make yourself your mental point of origin and that's hard particularly in a religious respect but people don't get that like they don't get that you have to sort of remake yourself at many different stages of your life and it sounds to me like you're remaking yourself as well I got let's see I think it says Josh will you bring more red pill to your own youtube channel it's hard to do that yeah in the world of monetization when it pays your mortgage maybe I should rephrase that would you like all of your videos to be yellow yeah so like I kind of like my mortgage so you gotta pay that like of course like I'll talk about it we all have opinions right we all have opinions but just because you have them doesn't mean you can express them like YouTube is not it's not it's their platform it's not free speech you can't just say what you want they're gonna do what they want so changing it up now - yeah so you you got to play by the rules if you have a mortgage that YouTube pays so that's I say things without saying them if you have to kind of like read between the lines but what you were saying just a second ago like my what popped in my head was a my my advice that my family gave me when I left of Finland was they like held me on the shoulders like they were like Josh happy wife happy life and I remember thinking I was kind of like wait wow what about me though you know like but just kind of like okay all right got it and then you know these days they still say that I'm another now what about me what about me like I have a life too you know and that was like ingrained I guess if you look around my family it's it's they're like that you know you can see go to the mall that's really tough um I I need to either write an essay about this or I've really got to do an episode about this when you become red pill where it changes everything and not just how you're dealing with your inner sexual relationships but how you view your family and that's actually what I was going to ask you next is so now that you've read my books you've gone through this situation I think just to sort of put a period on the end of that last topic when you were finally leaving that really and you were starting to think about yourself and you're starting to make yourself your met you you were the one you were your primary focus suddenly what changed right I mean that's when she started thinking she had that gout that's what she want that's when she starts crying that's when she's trying to find ways to sort of like I guess deal with the doubt that like maybe you are actually gonna succeed and so to settle that in her own brain she's got to sort of tear you down she's got to say well you know you're never gonna be anything without me you know you think you're gonna be you know you have a finished degree you don't you know it's trying to find ways to disqualify you but the only reason any woman would ever try to diss mollify you like that is because there is that gout she had some doubt and most likely that doubt was inspired by the fact that you would finally accomplish something you got a job in the u.s. you were done with hurry or don't the and now you're starting to think about yourself and where you wanted to go and now that's what triggered that so that's that side of it my other leg is my other questions this is like how do you see your family differently after this experience but also after having read my books and and become a little bit more red pill aware do you understand the dynamics and your own family better yeah I watch it all the like I watch it all the time the aunts uncles like grandparents and stuff you know like you want to help but there excuse-excuse topia you know I'm like well just just read this just read the book it's all good you know like you can lead the horse you know but yeah that's that's that's how it's been you know and then the people automatically think that you're like you know anti anti women anti everything no no I mean like it's just you know just be a better you that's all I want you know just think about you for once but people you know they just jump to conclusions like I think your dad do you think your dad was better yeah very much so yeah I saw really I saw that one video where you were talking about your parents I want to dig too deep in that but like it sounds to me like you have figured that out yeah I mean like not not all the time like when I was younger when I was younger it was like he did everything like he kept the finances like it was all his thing my mom just kind of like coasted along she was just there for the ride you know and he did everything and then like he lost his job and now he's like struggling and all of a sudden my mom's like you're the man of the house you need to go work and my dad's like okay well we don't have any money and all I can find are these menial jobs so you need to work right now too and for whatever reason all my mom's suddenly which like what I actually have to do something I don't have a very good like relationship on that side of things but like I'm pretty blunt with my dad and he kind of laughs laughs at it when I say him but like it's a I'm pretty sure it won't last much longer I think him hanging out with me almost every day now is kind of like I enjoy doing my own thing you know and then he goes home at night and no like text my mom and stuff and then he'll call me and it'll be all a man be listen to what she said I'm like why are you even picking up the phone dude you know just it's weird to give your parents advice on relationships when your parents have been giving you that your whole life that was my next question did your dad other than like the time he said happy wife happy life dude has did he ever like give you any kind of advice or try to like like I guess steer you in the right direction with respect to your to your relationships did he ever say like girls are like this right now he never really he never really cared that wasn't from him like he didn't say that that was like my uncle who said that and my grandma I'm like other people he never said anything he was like from what I know he was he's pretty much a player basically like until we got married with my mom and then even then he was making all the money my mom was along for the ride so my mom just got to like cruise basically and then when that hit the fan and that was no longer the case all of a sudden they go from being happy for 20 years to not anymore and but like in the meantime like you know I was like hooking up with chicks I guess throughout high school and stuff and there were scenarios where I thought he was gonna get mad at me for like catching me you know but he didn't he was pretty chill about it he he didn't really care what I did in terms of that who's just like you know you do you Josh just uh you know like if she cute that's what she would say like what she look like though hmm you know just the kind of like a bro but like over time when that like he doesn't have like control of his life anymore he's a lot more like questions himself more because he doesn't have that like financial like security that he's always had so like everything he's like I'm not sure anymore this strange so you I think you mentioned in that other video that he lost his job or something and then he was like borrowing money from you borrowing it nicely yeah let's just say he was liberating money from you I guess yeah he lost his job and he made his own company and then his old company sued his company and he lost that lawsuit because he signed a non-compete when he was 27 and then they like took his house and all that stuff and so like he wasn't allowed to work for two years doing the only thing he's ever known how to do he put all his 401k so he couldn't go to college another degree and then you have to work his way back up to getting that salary he spent 30 years working towards which is just kind of like a big mess so they took money from my cars but like we're past that like him I'm over that with him now it's kind of like I'm he looks up to me which is kind of strange he likes hanging out with me and I try to help him out I thought about it I was like dad we got to do let's put let's put my dad on tinder stream just to see what would happened he's like no no no I don't want to do that he's like I'm still married I'm like no I don't care let's do it anyways like let's see what happens to see what you know and he's he laughs about it but I think I'm just kind of slowly he's getting it mm-hmm so it's interesting to see like who your dad really is after a while like when my dad got zeroed out when he was about 55 my father only ever did one thing throughout his life and he was like an administrative director like he was he was an HR guy before there before women took over HR and he was a vice president of a hospital for a very long time and then once that was taken away from him he lost all of his identity because his entire identity was wrapped up in his job and exactly like what you're talking about I'm wondering if that's like not kind of like an old-school kind of thing because what I remember when my dad had his 50th birthday and he had all these friends there and he was on top of his game and you know he's probably making more money that he never made in his life his vice-president of a big hospital at that time and within five years he was zeroed out the company that owned the hospital sold out to another company they fired all of middle management on up and they replaced all of those guy all those people with their own people and my father did not have anywhere else to go after that but like for pretty much all my life I had always known him as that guy as the guy who was like the my my dad was in the industry of director he was the the vice president of the hospital and he had racked up his identity in that job for so long that when he lost that he lost a piece of himself and I think that I never really even said that before but I think that that's something that's a danger I think for a lot of guys was when they they are not versatile enough when they can't turn on a dime you know when they they can't improvise I guess because their competency is wrapped up in one thing and they're domained what I called them the independent their domain dependent on that one actually now I don't think that's certainly probably not gonna be your case because you can you can fluidly move from like whatever you were you know whatever you were doing in college you know as a engineer and to doing what you're doing right now and this probably won't be the last thing you do you know with your life as well so I think that's that's a that's a really important lesson I think that guys need to know is like if you put your identity into one thing and that one thing goes you're done and that's the same thing that happens when you have one itis when you are when you're wrapped up in the soul-mate myth and you literally can't live without her did you ever maybe it was C I don't know this probably things were a little bit different free like when you were with her and there was probably a point at which you said this is not gonna work this is like we're we're pretty much done was that kind of like pressing for you because it felt like you put so much effort into the relationship and now you're kind of like this is this is so bad that I can't deal with this anymore no it's more like a positive thing it's more like I looked I try to be I try to be pretty like humble I guess most the time and I'm willing to like look at myself he's like yo you were dumb and like try to be better so that's what I did and so I was looking more like the positive aspects of things like look at this way Josh you're gonna get in shape gonna be back on the game now you're not gonna be tied down anymore you know like eat because they like the physical attraction like I ballooned up but it wasn't it was like mutual alright like there's no physical attraction anymore it's like you get to be with these cute girls you're gonna make some money you know like it was kind of like more of a positive I tried not to look at the negative side of things so it's kind of exciting for me but it was like you know try very nuts like you had like yours too much for your own personality wrapped up in the whole thing then like it was it probably seemed like I don't know there was like more opportunity and leaving her then yeah same with her I started to figure it out that she needed reasons to tell people so that she could break up with me like I would talk to my my guy friends at class and we would talk and be like he is I think she's like coming up with reasons man like I'm not pretty sure I haven't done anything there's nothing really that she can say to like get a divorce that won't make her cuz if she has a reason she can divorce right away she doesn't have to wait six months and I think that's what she was trying to do he's trying to get me to do something that she could take the to the police station and then just have to like like immediately divorced rather than have to wait the six months out so she kept trying to bait me into things I'm like you know I picked up on that I was just very like I've yeah I was like soft you know like I was really really soft I'd like the concept of like putting putting my foot down and telling this person that I love no really cool my gosh like who was she gonna do like you know it's just like that was a new concept to me and then I did it once it once and I was like I wasn't that bad and I did it again and again and like every time I kind of like second-guess myself when I would say no or when she would want to you know she'd want to get it on I'd be like no the first time was absolutely not the second time I was like no it's kind of funny to watch a reaction now and then the third time was just you know as I did it more often I was like okay yeah I understand what this is I hold my own I mean tie myself here mm-hmm well did you have any questions for me yeah I have a lot of questions they're probably not like outside how does okay even marry for like 20 plus years right 23 how does that how do you like I guess this is like super difficult for you to like maintain you know like the respect and like all that because you've been married so long you ever like slip up well oh you mean as far as like maintaining frame yeah yeah yeah that's a really good question because you'll probably have to deal with that not-too-distant future here a lot of guys will say well you know I roll those rollers relationship sounds like it's really great but I would hate to have to gain my wife all the time right so it sounds like a knack I have to keep up all the time and I always tell them it's like it's not an act it's just like I have internalized what I've written in my books they're just like coming to the conclusions I have with respect to your relationships with respect to dealing with women whether it's my wife or my daughter or my mother-in-law or women I have to work with whatever I have like sort of this natural reflexive response that I guess people would call game or they would call it you know being red pill aware and that would be the then sort of the natural response of a guy who already knows like that part of himself so when guys say well you know you enroll a stay game is why follow Thomson I don't have to get my wife at all because I am the game it's I am I you know our wife gives me a test or something it's not like I go when I flip through my book or I go through my notebooks and go okay I can I can do a B C or D it's like now my reflexive response like my personality is now a result of what I've written and just being in this and just you know really a collective a collective result of everything that I've become over the years and my wife response to that my wife is on it's like I think a lot of people really they say well you got lucky all right well I got married in 1996 and I dated my wife for about a year little maybe a little over a year before we got married and I was non-exclusive with her for a year and well about maybe six months of that year I was not explicit I was dating other people she was dating other people and then at one point she came to me and she says I want to be exclusive with you I don't like the idea of you being with other women and at that point she was the hottest girl I was with at a time stuff so is that okay yeah that's fine and I don't know that I really consciously acknowledged it but like that was that meant something because it was her coming to me and it wasn't me well I wasn't the one who was necessitous in that situation because I was on top of my game I come out of this this bepd relationship and I when I met my wife I had plans to go back to college I had plans to actually move away from where I was at I was finally doing kind of like what you're doing right now which is I was putting myself first I didn't really think of it in terms of like mental point of origin at that point but if if there was such a thing back then that's when it was just sort of developing in my head and I had to understand that every time I had put myself as my number-one priority that's when women came on to me that's one people that's when women started wanting to be a part associated with me and people say well you know you just have to be a selfish prick or you just have to be a jerk about the whole thing and I'm just like no it's not being a jerk it's just you know controlling the frame owning the frame and using it to your best advantage but also recognizing that because you're putting yourself into that position other people are going to be attracted to you like are you familiar maybe you are are you familiar with the concept of enlightened self-interest because what that is yes I see your don't expect what that is is it's that this is the ideas that I can't help other people I can't help other people as well as when I helped myself first and so that's kind of been where I have ever since that point ever since the point that I broke up with my own BPD girlfriend that's where I might my turning point was and I think one of the reasons why I started out with really strong frame with my wife and continued to this day is because I realized that I'm in a better position to help other people and help myself if I'm the if I'm the one that I'm making the decisions for first so when I met my wife I told her from the get-go I said I am going back to school and going because I felt like I had a lot of things that I needed to make up for over the course of my my 20s and I wanted to sort of build myself up to where I felt like I should have been when I when I got into my early 30s and so I told her I said I have a lot of work to do and if you're if you want to be a part of that that's fine but this is where I am going I'm not going to have a relationship for you this is where I'm going and she was good with that and so people will always say well you're you're just lucky roll up you just found a girl who was traditional or a girl who who wanted a guy who was alpha and yeah in a way but it was weird for me and I think this is this is maybe some advice for you I think that going forward when you meet another chick you probably going to date and I would suggest you date non-exclusively for for quite some time but when you are with like saviors if you've read my books then you know what I mean when I say spinning plates when you're spinning plates let's save got three or four girls going on at the same time with every one of those you will succeed with every one of those plates so long as you make yourself the primary in that whatever passes for a relationship is in you're not exclusivity the trick is this is that not to over invest in anyone in any one plate to the point where you are breaking that for lack of a better we're breaking that covenant with yourself right you're breaking that the idea that you are you're meant to point of origin that you should be your whenever you are faced with a decision a big decision or a small decision but you generally the big decisions like what you want to do with your life it's never about the woman that you're with it's never about the family it's never about your dogs right it's never about it's never about anything else like the first thing that should come to your mind that's why I call it mental point of origin is yourself and I think what we do and we've been doing for the last like two or three generations with our boys is we have taught them to be serviceable we've taught them to be good servants in fact even especially in religious circles I would presume you're probably part of like some evangelical thing maybe I don't know but we teach those boys like in particularly in Christianity that you need to be of service you need to be live a life of service right you need to to do for other you know like your the measure of your worth is how much you're worth to other people like can you go do things for others and so it's always this sort of good boy attitude like I'm gonna I'm gonna do these things and then somebody's gonna appreciate me for them and that kind of permeates guys lives for like their upbringing or their you know their whatever whether it's in their parents where it's the the village or whatever that's raising that kid you need to be sort of sensitive to women you need to make what put women first you need to put and usually that passes from like maybe your mom or your sister to your girlfriend and then to your wife and so it's always this life of service as opposed to how does this affect me how do I make myself my number one priority in my life that's it's not just it's not just thinking about yourself first it's not just like oh you know make Marshall number one if that that's not what I mean it's actually changing your mind about yourself so that you are your first thought that comes into your brain whenever you're faced with the decision so how do I apply that in my life right now that's all I've ever done ever since I got out of my my P D girlfriend's house right after I got out of that whole situation and it has paid off ever since then and I and yes I was fortunate enough to meet a woman who was who expected me to be that guy who expected me to make the decision see my wife to this day still expects me to be the decision-maker like I have to be very decisive if I if I isolate on a decision that's when I know I'm losing it like I don't like talk about decisions that I'm gonna make with my wife until I'm like fairly certain like 80 to 90% certain what I want to do and then I go forward with that because it's when I am indecisive that that's when the problems start when when it's like there's a lot of things in life where you like you're gonna you're not gonna know exactly what you need to do but when you voice those things like one of the things I think is a really disservice that we do to two young men today is we we feed them this about oh it's all about open communication you need to communicate with your wife you need to communicate as if just communicating is in some way gonna solve that problem yeah to your credit at least you knew that marriage counseling was because that's exactly where you would have ended up in that is is talking about all you're talking about your feelings and your your your fears and your human abilities it was suggested it was it was really you know like you should do that you my parents I'm like no no like look this not gonna be anything but just me being the bad guy no matter what I do we're gonna be back here next week and I'm gonna do something else wrong and it's still gonna be my fault no matter what like it's just it's a joke I'm not gonna go here and just be talked down to for two hours about what I didn't do right you know and so like I think what a lot of people it was weird for me to put myself first like the very first time I did it I got guilt ripped for it they're like you're so selfish you're like narcissistic you know like you'll get killed challenge for doing it for you like any its but then you like you actually can't help other people until you help you first you know it's like like in the chat and like I say is like when you're in an airplane and the little oxygen mask comes down the ladies were like put on your face first before you help other people that's just like the same way you have to live life yeah otherwise you die if you don't you die and everybody else does so if you if you have the capability to help somebody but that something is cutting off your oxygen you need to think about yourself first and I I think we do I mean I'm writing a book about religion right now in the red field I think we still to this day do a disservice to our young men by by promoting this idea that they have to be like perfect little servants and I think that because feminism and the feminine imperative has assimilated most mainstream religions right now the feminine imperative has sort of used that and as a leverage I think for like several generations of young men right now and say well you're not a man of God unless you do what I tell you to do you're not a man of God unless you're serviceable and you have a utility to you we still expect old school old social contract responsibilities from men but yet we only reserve new social contract benefits for women with with none of the responsibilities that guys the guys in yeah and several different communities of the manosphere will say you know right now we expect 100% responsibility for men and 0% authority is given to those guys so it's all a downside proposition even before you get married so I'm not suggesting you get married I'm not suggesting you do anything except for spin plates and and focus on yourself that's why I asked you I said you know why you know what do you have planned where are you gonna go from here at least you've got the benefit like you've learned that you've learned a tough lesson and I I was talking to I was doing a counseling thing just yesterday with a guy who was in a very similar situation to you he got married early went through a really bad relationship with this person finally split up with them and now he's still thinking like oh maybe she maybe she really does want to get back together with me maybe things could work I'm like dude that there's no hope on that side but there's lots of hope on the red pillow where side and there's lots of opportunity over here your your situation well I was attracted to your situation because it's so common like lots of guys have to go through that I went through that myself and the reason why I think it's tragic is because your most productive the years your your 20s if I could go back and say I have any regrets in life it's it's losing those four years that I was with that woman I was with her because I think to myself what could I have done like what kind of it what can I have built where would I be right now I had I had I just had the balls in my sac to like say no okay I'm out you know how would my life have changed and I you on the other hand you you spent what eight five years five years yes I'm more like that like could you have done in those five years of the prime of your life I think about that a lot I'm thinking I like you too man we never like we never did it maybe like maybe like nine times like that's it like I'm like 22 hormones raging nine times in like four years I'm like what could I like you know you know and now I'm like 30 and it's like it's not the same that hormones are different but like it you know it's just like what is going on I'm like energetic like working out every day okay I could have done so many things and I and I had plants like do all those things there and like pamper her and like you know I don't know man it was it was not it's not a good time I just I would go back in time I'd slap myself yeah yeah this is really quickly here yeah I get that because then you wouldn't be saving men right now I know I know that I had to go through that experience so that I could be useful to other guys I didn't get to the point where I am right now I don't like the books that I've read I've written and things that I do right now I could not have done that had I not gone through those experiences I understand that so at least I'm making the most of it but I all I think the same way as you man I'm like if I coulda just got out of that sooner how would my life be different as a result of that now you know of course maybe it was necessary to get to where I'm at right now but I see so many guys repeat that same mistake man I like oh they'll you know put everything into people give me grief because I say you know when you're in your 20s you need to stay single you need to stay non-exclusive don't consider monogamy until you are at least 30 years old as a guy now I'm not saying don't date I'm not saying don't go and you know explore what's out there being big non-exclusive spin plates right up until that point but don't even consider monogamy until you have a better understanding woman's nature a better understanding of yourself and that you have the opportunities to to maneuver and you have the time to do it and like you were saying you know you're 20 years old but what can you've done what could you've done with that you know and you could you could put like just you have right here is legging put that in sexual terms it's like man I could have had different girlfriends I could have different sexual experiences but you could also had different experiences with like where you went to school like I'm sure if you didn't know this girl Finland would not have been the first place that you would have want to go to scrape yeah that's what I mean like when I about this all the time we three - what is it relational equity like guys think that if they put more into it that they're gonna get that much more appreciation out of it and it never works like the inverse like you put nothing and all of a sudden you get everything it's like what and that's like really hard like what you're saying earlier it's like my like my cousin that I'm watching right now he's like I don't know like 20 and he's like going to marry this first girl that he's ever had as like a relationship ever and that's just like I'm just watching you know I'm just watching this train wreck unfold or like it's not completely trainwreck yet because they're not married yet but then like I'm just you know I went hung out with him he brought a girl friend and I was like you want to go do this and he's like let me let me let me ask if I can do that you know like asking for permission like you're not even married what do you do and like you try to help you know like I can't articulate my thoughts as well as you in terms of this regard like you wrote the books so norm I'm just I try to say this and I might just just read the book man please don't do it and it's hard he just I can't I can't you know we've been together for like a year dad really likes me and I'm like it doesn't matter don't do it scarcity mentality and I think that's what's great about the position that you're in right now is you're making money you're certainly in a better spot in your life right now at least you can say you know what you don't want you don't want to deal with that crap anymore you don't want to be in that situation but more so I think you have had a really tough life lesson with respect to frame like how like you just what you're saying right now you see your friend asking permission you know making his girlfriend the primary probably because he's one of the 80% of guys who are in the you know the beta male category where they have that scarcity mentality where they feel like if I don't ask permission if I don't measure up if I don't qualify myself to her if I don't play in her frame then I'm gonna be zeroed out or I'm gonna have to go back to square one her parents were only like me I don't want to screw anything up that kind of mentality that scarcity mentality is it's pervasive in in beta meal it feels like cheat codes really sometimes it feels like cheat codes like once you understand how things work you know and it's like no and they're like well here's everything no like you like the more you say no when instead you're just like oh yes yes to everything how can I help let me what it's about you today and forever you know and then like you're like now I'm gonna do my thing and they're like but wait what about that and like all these opportunities suddenly open up and like what is what's going on it must be because everyone else says yes so I'm different and that's why yeah yeah yeah these guys are goofing on y'know like Han Solo says Josh would you ask a woman in the street for sexy time if she had a nice fast I wouldn't phrase it that way well are you well that's actually that's a good that's a good segue here um are you more do you why how do you meet chicks right now do you go on tinder or do you like I realize it's tougher in in Utah but like what's your what's your MO when you if yes it's not good it's not it's not called approach it sometimes very rarely sometimes but like I'm at home making videos editing all day you know and I don't really drink it makes me sick so I can't really I mean I guess I could go out to like clubs and stuff but it's not really like I'm not gonna buy you drink cuz I don't even drink and even then I'd still say no you know it's so it's like it's mostly just like online which is not good because it's even more tilted in the favor of the women you know especially like bumble you know like I have to wait for them to say yes which is really weird you know like you get no choice do you what so are you on bumble is that how your yeah things right now okay so you're on bumble are you on tinder are you on anything are you I think it's like hinge tender doesn't work tenders - yeah hinges hinges weird it's like they they ask you questions and then you can see the person's response and then you can click on their response and engage with that so you kind of like something to go off with besides like hi hmm but most I would say success is between like bumble or hinge do you get a certain kind of woman that like picks you have you been picked on boom where you just sit around and wait or I mean that's all you can do like you can like like you get this it's so silly like I'll see my friends and I like look at bumble they're tender and they're like oh man she's hot like swipe right it's like it doesn't matter dude it's like you have to wait on her just swipe on all of them in sort later what are you doing you know you know it's funny you know you being in of course my good friend Karl who also hasn't been around in a long time he's the the writer of black label logic he has a really great actually both of his books he's got two books called gender not mix one and two and in I think the first one he talks about how there's an algorithm for like bumble or for tinder or whatever so it's almost like it's um like a tournament ranking so if you are if a lot of girls like you and they all swipe right they kind of move you up to a different like tier I guess within that within the the software somehow so if enough girls like you then like they move you up to like an eight so that you match with girls who are also rated like an eight but if you're like if you if you get no play whatsoever it never pushes you up in the ranking so that like if you're like if women would like consider you like a four or a five you will never like me the girls who are like eights and nines because the algorithm will put you in a different class or a different category and another way that guys kind of get shafted but like so do you is that so that's your main way of meeting you like to your friends you have like real friends you have like people actually like hang out with in real I mean you saying I should I should I don't I don't really have a lot of friends than hang out with it's mostly me and my dad but I don't have any like I've been thinking about like getting into like certain sports like action sports and stuff like that or like going in my pilot's license and like bonding over there but I've just been so making like videos and just trying not to be homeless and make a living on YouTube which is like I'm where I'm at this weird point where I have choice in my time now which I I'm gonna go do that like I have no issues walking up to girls mean like hey what's up like it doesn't that doesn't bother me it's just that I just don't go anywhere so occasionally I'm just like swipe swipe swipe but I mean I get like decent matches but it doesn't usually work out because of they're usually from here and I'm not and you know like I'm not LDS so it doesn't usually work is there like is there will you find LDS they say they said in the profiles is not LDS Rael yes Wow yep so like do you have any tribes though do you have like any other guys that you hang out with like at the gym or your friends or is it all like no that's what mistakes get behind the screen yep that's the mistake 100% like I should have a like a group of guys that I go chill with but I've just been making videos basically like every day make video edits video upload the video do other stuff for the business it's what I can get to the point where I can go out and do things that I feel guilty about it but then there's like the whole other mindset shift of like okay go live life a little bit Josh so now I have some money to choose to do some activities so I'll probably go get a pilot's license or something like that and there's you know there's like that's pretty small small click mm-hmm yeah but yeah yeah that's a mistake I don't have like a group of guy friends that I go hang out yeah you need I'm saying if I can help you out in any way my next suggestion to you is to like go and develop a new tribe like go find some other like hang out in real life because I think that what happens to your generation Plus like the in generations I don't know if you'd be a millennial and not a few gen z you're coming consider Cinzia no but like that like people in their 20s right now I think there's a real risk and sort of like socially isolating yourself particularly with guys because it it's easy to sit behind a screen it's easy to go on bumble it's like but once you say oh I got a match great where we gonna go what are we gonna do that's when it all falls apart because you don't know you know what what you know you can't make the reeds that you need to make because you don't have that experience and maybe it's not the case with you but it seems like we're looking at generation of guys right now who've been living behind what I call buffers right there yes it's texting it's behind this like the monitor right here in front of me this is a buffer right oh I would probably like I can see your face I can hear your voice and all that that's that's one thing but if I'm just typing little things to you on the screen that's you know that's not teaching you anything with respect to like interpersonal communications something that something to consider but I would also say this is it's not just it's not just a how many plates can you get working right now but it's also like dealing with other guys right like having having that tribe having dudes to to hang out having having people to talk to you know in real time as opposed to like playing video games or being like right now you probably because of what you do like what would you say what would you say your audience is right now cuz your your letter about what a hundred and seventy five thousand subs right now and like what would you say primarily your audiences is a tech it's mostly tech some people water like stories about my life but it's probably I started off as like how to get code jobs instead of like how to learn code and why you should learn it and then so they have some software people and then I have some people that watch for just whatever I make you know some people will just show up no matter what just cuz I guess they like me for me and sometimes they'll show up for like the stories like the intro introspective because I think I'm I try to be pretty introspective about what I do and some I'll make videos about like what I've learned in business and what like spending money and stuff like that so they'll show up for that um it's kind of a weird channel that's why it's just my name mm-hmm and not like code with Josh or anything like that I found I found that kind of interesting because like when I was doing that breakdown of tech lead like I was looking at some of his other videos it's really popular and like basically I was talking about is like how to get a job or like his he's just basically opining about certain things I guess in tech or whatever and in in some some sense I think you're probably in the same vein as him that's actually how it found you but like as far as your demographic is concerned you do you think like it's mostly like young guys oh it is yeah I can I could see the demographics it's a mostly between 1835 like 95 percent yeah and um I got to ask you this like when when you were going through your divorce and all that stuff and you came across my book like did somebody suggest it to you how did you like come across my word okay alright I found it I was reading reading read it someone linked to the subreddit and they're like this is a terrible place it was blah blah blah like everyone here is terrible and mean and I was just like let me check this out and I started reading it and I was like this is me mmm this is what I'm dealing with and then you see like Rollo in the comments were all the role of that is that and then it's like the book it's in the sidebar you know go check it out I was like oh okay let me click that that's how I found it because I was just reading I used to okay that's what it was it was I was reading like are / like relationship advice I think it was and then I would go from there to like dead bedrooms which is the most depressing subreddit you could ever read ever and and then they like they would some guy would be like you guys need to read this and they're gonna be like no don't listen to this guy and I clicked on it to see what it was you know because you have a hard shot like when you first started reading it was it like were you resistant to it at first or it is automatically clicked for you um there was like some hard truths I guess like there's a few users like common users in the subreddit that you see and then once you just like internalize that I don't know you go through the phases just like they talk about you go through phases I went through the phases and then I was just like okay this is what it is I got to deal with it hmm yeah so we're coming up on take care of housekeeping right around this time right here so guys if you haven't hit the subscription button please do if you haven't hit the like button please do also make sure you guys go and check out josh's channel as well i put his actually the link to your divorce video is in the description right now but you have a lot of great videos as well that I actually can kind of get behind as well so I do do check out Josh's Josh's work I highly recommend his stuff and it seems to me like you at least you have an education right now easy I think you have an idea of where it is that you want to go from from here as far as like frame is concerned and like when when you bring in another when you finally get to a point where maybe you want to like maybe become monogamous like have you ever like given any thought like are you ever gonna get married again yeah I've given that thought and I'm okay so after like the girlfriend no never again no one's ever living here again I'm gonna get married it sounds like douchey right but like because of my status I guess of what I am it's really hard to tell people are genuine or not especially really hard to tell if people are genuine not because they want that they want the the reputation do they want the money like what what do they want you've had some girls like come up to you like because they they want to get with you because you have an audience and they want bigger reach is that how it is yeah the last if they can be in my Instagram like live stores or whatever or if they can be on a stream or if I mean can I be in your video or what no no you can't no sorry and then it just like makes them like you're such a jerk and then they laugh you know okay great but it's just I'm not gonna get married again probably not gonna be exclusive you know what do you think what do you think like the worst part of dealing with like this generation of women is like what are you like if you could give women like some sort of advices like all women all the time will say like oh well you you need to do this to get with me you need to do that I just my last my last essay was an essay that I wrote for women like about like here's what you can do like what if you could give them some advice this is really tricky how do i mmm as you're dealing with this you're dealing with women online you're dealing with the Instagram snapchat set of girls obviously I want to get on your channel here but like what would you I don't know I don't know if the advice would mean anything you know like probably not but like is that gonna work like probably hmm that's a tough one it's like how to walk the line of YouTube right now is what I'm thinking about like actually in my head to where someone doesn't clip this for later yeah what would you say yeah I would reason is because in that essay that I did there's a the guys who are sort of in my my social circle my fear of the Internet I guess who will occasionally put out some kind of like list will say if you want to be oh you know a quality woman whatever if you want to be if you want to attract a guy or you want to keep a guy you have to do these six things right and just by stating that just by saying oh here's what there's some ideas right here's some suggestions lady that will and you're right and you'll you'll get flagged for stuff like that you will one of the was it rich it was rich good I mean the guy made the six o'clock news because somebody some guy somewhere online dared to say to give women a list of prerequisites and things that they could do but I think that it's necessary particularly for your generation like it's like how are you going to you know how fertile I think guys should have some sort of prerequisites for women like if you're going to have a relationship with them like what should those things be well clearly you don't want what you had with your with your ex-wife but like right zone to start something like well we okay let's just say well we'll be at the top of that list okay so I mean I have like a set of standards for like before I'm gonna like date stuff just so you know they they need to have something going for them they can't be like I want to open up this business one day and then go party all weekend and then go back to their $10 $10 an hour you know bank teller job and just complain about never having any money any money because they spent it partying all weekend and then they do that right they do that until they find somebody and then you know like they have to have some ambition and they have to be working towards something that's that's nice to see instead of just talking about it like physical obviously like you need to be you know in shape it's just like that's non-negotiable really but you everyone has preferences there as to what they like but that's probably one introspective probably mmm which is like be able to there you go like realize what you know be able to take a step back and be like wait what was I doing that's what that was like one of the first things I said in that essay is like like I love the opinion that men and women are better together than we are apart I believe that we evolved to be complements to one another but the way things work right now the way we have sort of structured our social order or whether it's through feminism or it's through you know the feminine imperative everything that's happened since the sexual revolution we are becoming more and more segregated right now and I think one of the the key issues for women at this stage is hubris they will never like I'm glad you said introspection because that is I think one of the number one things that women lack today is really taking a critical look at themselves or even having the notion to take a critical look at themselves and to say hey you know I could be better at this way or maybe I should really come back down to earth like bringing women back down to earth with respect to like their their you know their social media and having their egos kind of overblown in in the communication age I guess is I think that's the number one issue women need to face this is sort of like put a curve on that hubris it's hard it's it's how do you say that like like you're too prideful or something like can you just take a second and realize what you're doing take some accountability please like just be aware of all your actions here a lot of guys will say like I and I've had done shows about this a lot of guys will say that women don't have agency like they don't have any like there they're just sort of on autopilot and it's really the guys will argue with me all the time they'll say women are the way they are because men allow them to be what they are right now and if men would just put their foot down right if men would just like sort of control the frame then when they would follow along and I only agree with that up to a point because I still think that women do have agency and I think they do bear some responsibility and they do need to like you just like you said need to have some interest oh it's it's hard to make like huge sweeping statements like you know because there's always going to be like some exception you know a lot of people like to make a lot of sweeping statements in this area of what we're talking about and some people get upset and some people are like know if that's a hundred percent facts and it's just like I'm just tell it from my point of view of what I think you know like it's really difficult if - you can't say like absolute 100% this one thing for everyone is fact when it's you know that's just yeah I would say a problem you think that do you think that women today like in your demographic in your situation you think women today are more like transactional I hear a lot of guys like in your age range who will come out complain but they will say that like women are just too much about the exchange like that's why you get sugaring that's why you get like sugar daddies and sugar and that's why that's the thing right now it's almost like soft prostitution but and so that sort of cuts out guys like you like if you honestly want to have a real connection with with a woman with the person where you mean having that is is very very difficult for them because it's not based on the exchange as it is so much as it is like we want to come together as like two people right right it's very do you see it do you see the exchange they see like women cuz thank you the first thing you said was women need to be more introspective or they need to be more insightful I guess what do you think is preventable I think a lot of just expectations of what you're supposed to do you know like finding a guy that makes a lot of money you know like you talk to girls and their friends circles and like what's he doing a lot of money you know it's like the first description that you hear you know like not actually what he does oh he does he just makes a lot of money oh that's what he does okay so at least the ones I've talked to it's just it's pretty obvious like okay you're expecting something out of this whatever it is what it is but it's not gonna last you know do you think you're gonna have to leave the country what do you what do you mean a lot of guys will say well you just leave the country it's because you're in the Western society and you need to go like to Southeast Asia to find a real well no I don't think so I think maybe I just haven't met them but I think there's probably like you're not gonna find him on Instagram because they wouldn't be the type of girl to be there from so it's it's difficult to say all right on five o'clock here I want to thank you again for for being a part of this is there anything else you wanted to ask me real quick or it probably happened as soon as we in the call yeah well so here's the thing let me just put this on table for you if you ever have any questions ever want to talk to me if you want me come on your stream that's fine if you like if you're reading the book and you know you want to ask me something about it or if you're going through something oh don't be a stranger man I know like when I was first talking to you you're like oh my god you know I'm interested in like well like I have a lot of guys that I counsel and they're they range anywhere from like 17 or 18 years old all the way up to like 70 years old so I'm like interested and like what you're going through so I think that helps me be a better like writer and a better counsellor as well so if there's anything you have anything that I can do for you just let me know will do yeah I mean the same same here I don't know what I can maybe YouTube stuff if you want but yeah yeah exactly I this is sort of a your demographic is a little bit different than mine as you might guess but the age is what you would target it's like yeah a lot of software people where me are me like they they are what I was you know like they're going through that and so it's like going through it right now it's it's hard to you can't really talk about it it's because it's you do you know do you think should I see you - probably should ask you this before is like guys who are who are following you do you think they're more resistant to this or do you think they're more open to like - like my work or the red pill or like understanding intersection - like publicly or not publicly I got that look like it like they like for really like in in the comments yeah I mean from what I get every like the same chat that's here is usually kind of where I'm at I just can't I just can't engage with that because of what I do so that's that's all but I think there probably I'd say it's probably like 50/50 it's probably pretty open to it they might they just might be unsure of like why this is happening why this is like this doesn't go like this like something's a little off no I think you could have some opportunity there yeah so if you get booted off of youtube where are you gonna go I mean I mean I so like I have like the website in like products and stuff and I would mostly I would probably just run Facebook Ads Instagram ads and stuff like that to sell those instead because like I don't I don't solely live off of YouTube that would be nuts like I have some sources of like passive income not like real estate or anything like that but I mean I have like backup plans I'm constantly thinking of what I would do I probably like teach or something I used to teach code for like two years I would probably teach people how to build a brand at YouTube or something like that you know I have other skills that I think about what I could leverage if YouTube decides to just pull the plug one day which is you know pretty unlikely I should write a book like you like you're just getting all passive income like go buy his book give him some more you know yeah alright Josh this has been fun I definitely want to have you back at some point I sort of pick your brain a little bit later on so alright guys this has been real fun we're at the two-hour mark right now if you haven't hit the like button please do I will be on a I will be on Pat Campbell's show tomorrow at midnight tomorrow Friday at 11:00 11:00 a.m. Eastern look on my Twitter feed for that Josh does anything you want to play not now this you know here I always get Sarah to put your your your links are in the description if you want to follow Josh please do I I say a lot like I wouldn't be here today if I didn't read the books right but like I never thought I would be here like right here nutty like crazy that's great well I've enjoyed this so all right guys I will also rule 0 I'm not hosting but I think it's gonna be rich this time it's Rich's turn so rich Cooper's channel on Saturday morning 11:30 a.m. Eastern Time and then Sunday I will be back on with Pat Campbell on my show on this show right here for the Russian male 101 great thanks a lot Josh I appreciate art Maddox I see

Channel: The Rational Male

Views: 24,337

Rating: 4.928854 out of 5

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Id: 90yJJbOPDHQ

Length: 117min 24sec (7044 seconds)

Published: Wed Nov 13 2019