Cartels Have Now Infiltrated Montana: John Nores Returns I IRONCLAD

There's No Limit I mean these chemists are very smart they're very creative um and they just experiment and I think there's a lot of dead people in the part of that experiment they just work their you know it's like a bad episode of Breaking Bad but it truly is making that blue meth that was highlighted in that television series and one thing I like about that series is it it it showed the chemistry involved it kind of went in depth a little bit to the concept of you don't need to be you know some mad PhD scientist out of like the stamp think tank or you know some biolab these are Mexican these are Chinese these are cartel gangster chemists that have a little bit of Bas knowledge and they're creative so they will continue to experiment they'll find something that will make them more money with no concern for life or humanity and that is going to get people addicted quicker so they can sell more product how can I help how can I be useful in ending needless suffering do not be afraid of work that has no end we have to organize a social movement we have an opportunity to lead by example versus just talking hot air I think the more people in this fight the more we grow eventually it could change you the people are the ones that can make the change ladies and gentlemen welcome back to change agents in ironcloud original proudly presented by Montana Knife Company today we're going to be talking about something that is very close to home for me and I've Bean that literally and figuratively we are going to be discussing how cartels are infiltrating the state of Montana joining us on today's show is return guest John Norris if you have followed the podcast the first time that we spoke mostly was about his time as a game warden and his activities specifically counternarcotics operations in the state of California he is the author of the book hidden War how special operations game wardens are reclaiming wildlands from drug cartels as well as the book War in the woods combating the marijuana cartels on America's public lands he served as a game warden for the California Department of Fish and Wildlife for more than 25 years he is the co-host of the warden's watch and the thin Green Line podcast he also recently testified in the House of Representatives National resource committee during their securing our border saving our national parks oversight hearing to discuss the scope of carel infiltration in America you may think that cartels and Border issues Focus mainly on our Southern border but where I'm sitting right now I am 60 Mi away from our northern border with Canada and the influence of cartels here is very real specifically cartels can charge up to 20 times more for fentanyl in rural Montana compared to urban areas areas and in the last several years overdose deaths have risen by 49% on Native American reservations reservations of course are sovereign Nations which complicates enforcement efforts and in recent years authorities in Montana have arrested 22 members of a drug trafficking ring tied to the caloa cartel let's dive in and get to the conversation with John well man you're uh so you're in Cali about well I was going to say you're about as far away as you can get from Montana but you're in what would be considered Northern California even though last time I checked it's dead center on the map I don't know why people call the Santa Cruz area Northern California um working cartel issues I want to talk today about their influence in the state that is near and dear to our heart because we live there Montana right right yep I don't think most people would associate cartel influence uh with the northern border I think and for a long time myself included I thought cartel border issues everything along our Southern border with Mexico and where I'm sitting right now you've been in studio with me before is about 60 miles if you were to go direct to the Canadian border and all Trends are showing that we're seeing an increase in cartels at our northern border and I'm curious what your thoughts are on that and what has changed since the last time that you were on cuz you were on uh last summer yeah brother you hit it on the head man Montana is near and dear to both of us obviously my family has hailed there for 40 years you settled it's considered one of the you know the last great place in America you know a remote State um not overpopulated yet there there's an opportunity to get out in the Wilds enjoy the the the Wilderness you know everything the environmental stuff we love has to offer and it it's oxymoronic to think hey man this you know the calore alisco new generation cartels are in Montana what the heck are they doing in Montana um but this is it's just an example of the cartels being embedded and comfortable and operating with impunity everywhere and now it got the ra you know it's on the radar of Montana being such a sensitive area and that article I sent over to you was sent to me from one of the producers I'm working with on another project and he said can this be true you know Northeastern Montana these tribal reservations are being inundated with fentanyl and halisco new generation is coming in and taking them over how is that even possible why is it even a problem up there and it it is it's a huge problem and I think the big question is well how are they doing it with impunity how is it so easy and why are they there and when you look at the fact that we're so remote in Montana that in the big cities like where I'm positioned today temporarily till I get back home where you're at San Jose Bay Area fentanyl pill is three to five bucks right this stuff's being made by the Millions of millions of pills we know about the hundreds of thousands of deaths Nationwide you and I have talked about it a little bit on your cleared hot podcast but this is one of the one of many cartel poly crimes that is a national EP epidemic it is a priority Problem that we're not you know handling fully yeah and then now now in those areas Andy these are $100 on the black market so the cartels realized that they got low-level dealers that are kind of selling to reservation tribal members they're selling to small town community members they're sucking a into addiction they're basically creating a market um and then they're realizing it's so lucrative and again because there's no coverage there for law enforcement think how remote we are where you and I live in Northwestern Montana now go to tribal lands 5 hours East and I've done a lot of time over there hunting and stuff and man it's as you know brother it's no man's land and um when you look at the lack of sheriffs game ens and how spread out they got to be over there working for you know the US government the state of Montana or whatever let's let's look at Tribal Police look's let's look at Bia officers um they are I thought game wens had it tough I thought we were really remote and we are and we cover ridiculous areas alone take that times five exponentially for what these Bia these tribal officers have to deal with um the one one stat I heard for in Montana where that fentanyl problem is you got two Bia officers Tribal Police covering 440,000 Acres or more do that's a lot of country and that's not like cities P roads they're in a lot of remote tiny little communities so these guys are spread out um the cartels know that so they're going to play to that just like they did in covid when we weren't in the woods because we were all on lockdowns uh you know law enforcement were tied up doing civil unrest we were doing medical issues dealing with hospitals uh you know with overcrowding things like that so cops that did what I did that are in in the outdoor rural areas just weren't available to do what we would normally do and the cartels that they thrive on it so they're going to make big profits in Montana in this case in the area we're talking about brother it's even worse so that's the problem we have to look at how are we going to attack this thing nationally and how are we going to now realize that hey this is going on in every single state of the union on some level if it's not a fentanyl problem we have super meth and I know that's something that um I'm starting to see this this poly crime thing going on with these cartels so caloa halisco new generation the Chinese now trading basically crimes in California now and in many other states we're starting to see the clandestine weed the black market weed that's toxically tainted with your Chinese poisons or Mexican carbofuran poisons like we've discussed they're kind of giving the weed over to the Chinese and saying you guys can run that but we we're going to run fentanyl we run to run meth that's where our big profits provided you guys provide the precursor chemicals Chinese manufactured and they're in collaboration and you know this is just just starting to get the attention I think it needs and this all started to blow up in fact I think you and I talked about it on your cleared hot platform first and right after that I got invited to go testify in Congress on not only the hidden War issues and the environmental issues that we fought right here at Ground Zero where you and I came from in California but now this isn't just a border issue and what that Congressional committee had me there for the name of the hearing in the natural resources committee was protect our borders save our Parks so they were getting right to environmental they were getting right to protecting National lands and of that bipartisan Committee in Congress they're focused on the border the border the Border these border control bills the Border flooding is out of control you know we've got tens of thousands potentially of you know terrorist watch list candidates now that have crossed the border and embedded who knows where in in America we've got a ton of Chinese military age males coming across with Chinese passports from mainland China that are not Renegades these are skilled operators going straight into private land weed production for the black market and now like we talked about in cleared hot these Chinese chemicals fungicides rdes insecticides that are beyond nasty they definitely are as deadly and poisonous of the carbofuran and metapos stuff we're seeing the Mexicans bring up from Tijana but like we talked about before they're burning them in smudge pots they're creating a smoke Aroma inside these hoop houses and contaminating everything with this Aroma of this deadly neurotoxin and wearing t Hazmat like you know fitted breathing masks to put this stuff on and we don't want our public recreational Black Market medicinal touch in that cannabis for any reason you know we have legitimate grower groups in California hearing about this and seeing this up in Norther Cal and going whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa absolutely timeout that's not what we're about but unfortunately that's potent weed and there's a market for it all over the country especially in the states where there isn't regulation or the regulation's been done a little bit poorly and now they can go to a black market source and get weed at a third of the price very potent in THC content but incredibly deadly over a long duration because of those poisons that's all coming across the border so when we're trying to focus on border control border control border control you know we need to do that but we got to remember this is an embedded national security problem now we have over 7.3 million illegal migration crossings that have happened since border basically border policy changed right we're they're here we have deportable felons all over the US embedded they're bouncing City to city state to state they have criminal histories from Mexico Honduras other places radicalized jihadist from the Middle East everybody's getting in that wants to get in and I don't like to you know this isn't like hey uh Andy let's talk and get everybody fired up on paranoia but let's just be realist right let's be realist to what we're dealing with in the country and what we need to have from a preparedness standpoint especially when we go to how are we going to solve this problem and whatever we do On the Border in November with the if the administration changes and suddenly that becomes a focus I mean I'm praying and crossing my fingers that it does but whether it does or not this is happening right now in America border to Border North to South R and on the Northern end southern end east and west and we got to tackle this thing as a national priority um and it just gets more and more escalated and when I spoke with that Congressional committee the overwhelming response when it was Q&A time was like you know lieutenant we had no idea that there was environmental crime related in the foothills of the Silicon Valley from these poisons that these cartels have been doing for the better part of 20 years and now they're just operating with impunity we didn't know anything about Northern Cal this fentanyl thing I mean we think border but when you say Silicon Valley or you say calispel Montana right it just doesn't equate and that was my point was to drive that point home and what I what I also exposed during that is what ironically you and I talked about just three weeks before I went to Congress on cleared hot was the China connection the China poisons the collaboration of the Chinese with the Mexican cartels using America as a middle ground and basically at our expense our Public Safety our environmental destruction the resources you and I love as conservationists that's all basically up for grabs while these guys make not Millions brother but billions of cash dollars that they can launder in America it doesn't even have to go back to the Homeland either side and they're building their empire for financial domination they've got a currency control there's all kinds of you know multi-level uh objectives in doing crime in America but we're the victim because we're so open right now so one of many things we got to look at and we got to look at this is being here right now and you know not focus so much hey let's lock the Border up that's a two-pronged argument we got to do what internal because it is a problem now and it it's it goes Way Beyond just border control well that's what that's leading me as I'm listening to you unpack this and I think it's it's very rare I always appreciate the conversations I get to have with people that either a work directly not I wouldn't say on Border policy because most of the people I have talked to are agents that are not involved with ice they're more on the enforcement end of the policies that they have no hand creating right but then you know when what you're talking about is this influx of people so as a thought experiment let's say and I know this is impossible that uh border policy does shift it call it we'll call it the beginning of 2025 and even though it's possible let's say it's like a SP and we can turn it off how long do you think it would actually take though to deal with the problem that is already here let alone you know the spot being turned off again hypothetical not actually possible and I do believe we should have a legal immigration process right I'm not saying we should shut that down at all but let's say we shut down the influx how long do you think or is it even truly possible to actually wrap our hands around the potential issue that we already have here and if we were able to do so how long do you think in your opinion it would take to actually handle that that's a great question man and I would say if we stop stop the spigot right now and got a great Administration with good policy ideas and made that a national priority we're going to control the Border we're going to do legitimate immigration in a controlled manner we're going to get people here from a Melting Pot that want to chase the American dream hey America is a Melting Pot and it's the greatest thing that needs to continue and that's why we are what we are but we're not talking about that right it's apples and oranges how are we going to stop the criminality how are we going to stop that and even if we made it a national priority and through every resource we have at it whether it's education law enforcement working with Mexico working with other countries we're talking years man we're talking years because 7.3 million people that's a heck of a hit and even if 10% or less of that 7.3 million have any criminality in them are cartel related or you know Associates involved in some way um active jihadists whatever the case may be we're still talking about hundreds of thousands of individuals that are very dangerous in this country and you know from your operational career and I know from mine rounding those people up that have made a lifetime career of hiding in plain sight it's not an easy good luck with that it's [ __ ] crazy it's not an easy thing to do and do we really have the resources between local state and federal Le in the country right now especially with everything we're dealing with with the unrest the defund the police push which fortunately we we're starting to see a backlash because obviously that don't work um it's going to take a lot of years it's going to take a lot of years and my thing is is pushing like our mutual friends in this type of Realm push preparedness and education I mean I think we all need to be aware no matter how uncomfortable this story is and I got this a lot in Congress and I know you and I have talked about this the whole hidden war concept of the weed cartels and what it's morphed into of a national problem outside of weed weed is just one small part of this poly crime human trafficking right brother child sex trafficking which the sound of Freedom movie fortunately made it so visceral for the general public to go oh my God that's really really a horrendous problem that's evil incarnate you know and the US is the biggest consumer of that heinous activity so the cartels are involved in that various Mexican cartels and other foreign cartels so anything to make a buck at the expense they're going to do and until we um everybody gets a level of preparedness to understand what the problem really is and enough voters push for that being a priority and not just money but education on what to look for in a trafficking scenario if you're you're walking home with or without your child or your child's walking home alone from school or however they're they're moving around um you and I talked about the fentanyl pills uh one prescription opioid look alike is a deadly pill how do we educate our kids on not to take that for a painkiller because they think it came out of you know a a legitimate prescribed painkiller bottle and not necessarily to experiment with drugs or get high at a party but hey a very driven athlete and I have a valid dictorian level one here in the Silicon Valley of a a daughter of a very close relative valedictorian this happened a year ago she was a volleyball scholarship she was in multiple Sports had you know a strain knee ended up getting one of those dirty fentanyl pills in the Silicon Valley in an afflu commun Community by mistake went into her bedroom that night to study with a knee ache had taken that pill from a friend earlier at school after practice and she didn't wake up the next morning and Mom couldn't wake her up so that's that's a that's everywhere man if it's on Indian tribal reservations that we're seeing not far from where you and I at Montana and we're seeing it you know in the affluent Silicon Valley in a valorian girl that had a great future ahead of her in a college scholarship ready to rock that's a problem and I think every body can relate to that so we got to educate and you brought up some great points on cleared hot when we were saying you know do we have test kits for our kids and like not we're not sanctioning it but are we saying hey if you're gonna go there I'm dad you know I'm Uncle I'm Granddad I'm mom you may not listen to me when you're with your friends be sure you're smart don't touch it but you know where do you go with that um but these are real questions we have to ask and you brought that up beautifully and you know and we had a pretty good discussion on it and I've actually thought a lot about that that discussion since we last talked because we can't attack it as operators man we can't just go plugging the hole on the dam of the Leaky crappy Dam we can't play whack-a-mole we need to change it from internal kids need to know what to do they need to be trained adults need to be trained and it it it just has to be a comprehensive thing and I think when we handle it like some of the money we're throwing at these proxy wars around the globe the billions of dollars going overseas for those type of operations when the biggest domestic ECOT terrorist War we're having is right here in America and that's not an exaggeration let's put that funding there you know let's put that on the top five list and that's all I keep pushing with the hidden War message this thing just keeps getting worse and worse as the cartels get more embedded and they get more um incentivized because of bad policy and it's got to stop ladies and gentlemen I could not be more fired up to introduce the presenting sponsor for season 2 of change agents Montana Knife Company founded by somebody that I feel very fortunate to call a personal friend Master blades Smith Josh Smith not only a master blad Smith but the youngest Master blad Smith and one of the most experienced in the world Montana Knife Company blades are some of the finest that I've ever been able to get my hands on they are the sharpest knife out of the box and they're some of the easiest to resharpen when you Dole the blade I take them everywhere that I go I have them in every vehicle that I own and every backpack that I ever take into the back country specifically my favorite blade of theirs is the speed goat it's lightweight but so incredibly capable I never leave home without it if you're familiar with Montana Knife Company you know it is often very difficult to get one of their blades because they sell out within minutes of being released what you should be able to find in stock are the Blackfoot 2.0 speed goat or a Stonewall Skinner and if you use the code change agents 10 that's going to net you 10% off of your first order again my personal favorite blade is the speed goat if they have them in stock right now don't mess around put it in your cart and complete the checkout Montana Knife Company they build working knives for working people and like I said at the beginning I could not be more proud to collaborate with them on change agents season [Music] 2 this week on Borderland in Ironclad original Vince talks with two asy Seekers about the economic and social collapse in Venezuela that has triggered one of the biggest migrant crises in the world I feel that everything that I knew the Venezuela only that I grew up but how that deteriorated over time it completely destroyed my future it completely destroyed my family the notion of of a family the notion of what you have it was absolutely destroyed in a in less than a generation the moment I came to the US I knew the person I was was left back in Venezuela and I basically was rebor new episodes drop every Monday wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube at this is Ironclad yeah the number of conversations I've had recently with parents because we all you know the idea of being a parent and the reality of being a parent are two very different things yes um we seem to forget that we were the age of our children and I remember what I was like at that age and I now my parents profuse and very verbose apologies for everything that I put them through ditto I'm seconding that but yeah you know you want to pretend that your kids aren't going to fall down those trappings and I think that's a mistake not that I'm an expert on parenting but you know drug sex alcohol we're all going to be exposed to that to some degree and I look at even in public schools you know there's a sex education program and we have contraception available in most places easily accessible purchasable at a drugstore and I don't have any I have only conversations and no real solutions that I would be dogmatic towards people but I have had a lot of conversations recently with parents who are trying to figure out how to manage this danger not that having you know a a sexual interaction at a young age of course could terminated in a pregnancy and a life-changing event that could play itself out over many times but the situation that you described where a valedictorian takes a pill that she s thought was something else and that is life-changing overnight not only for that person meaning that their life ended but for the parents and the cascading effects in the community for that I mean do we have to treat drugs much like sexual education and provide those kits because I remember my parents telling me you know alcohol drugs sex you know don't you know don't do these things you're underage and they actually never said don't do these things it was always about open communication education and I don't know how to protect somebody from something that is invisible unless you provide them that mechanism to be sure because that at least the mistakes I have made in my life and we don't have enough terabytes on my hard drive for me to go through them alphabetically or chronologically they weren't going to terminate in uh a fatality for myself in a matter of minutes or hours um this this issue is is something different and I don't know you know why do we wear body armor you know front and back overseas because those are the vital organs that we have to protect how do we provide that for our our children growing up without because again I also don't want to incentivize their experimentation with this AG yeah and much like we don't want to in I wouldn't want to incentivize for people who are not able to make decisions on their own exploring uh a sexual path uh without protection you know it's it's a tough one as a parent because you you bounce up against do I have to accept that my children are going to play and and experiment in this ecosystem like we all did should I protect them or bury my head in the sand and pretend like it's not real it's a very tough spot to be as a parent yeah it's it's it's brutal especially because it's a real threat now and it's a real threat in our backyard it's a real threat in the Flathead Valley it's a real threat up in Lincoln County in the remote part where I'm at I mean we have the you know fentanyl warning 8 and a half by 11 posters on almost every business in the little towns of Libya and Troy Eureka and that just started to blow up and then the nas haer recovery you know um the quick recovery if you are exposed and you can get to one of those quickly that you might be able to reverse that fentanyl reaction and actually survive that I mean there may be some damage but you might actually survive it um I think we have no choice I mean at this point I think you hit it on the head when you breach that question our last discussion and I think that's part of the overall solution of we can't put anybody's head in the sand not our own not our kids not now this is too dangerous you said it best this isn't where you know you're going to get a bad strain of weed maybe get a stomach ache from an edible or something like that you're going to be sick you know for a day and a half but you're nauseous you're gonna die and you're G to die quick yeah and and something else that's coming up is look at methamphetamine now look at the new super labs in Mexico that are producing this meth that not only are the Mexican cartels throwing all over America along with the fentanyl but so are the Chinese now the Chinese are starting to dabble in that we're starting to see that LA County just had a raid down there uh a long with some of the weed trade being taken over on the trade collaboration we just discussed um and when they went to this new P2P based uh not a fedrin not pseudo fedrin since all of those drugs were regulated many many years ago and they've doctored up some some chemistry and Mexican cartels make really really good strong meth and this P2P meth is crazy um you don't have warning signs before overdosing you just overdose not quite as drastic as fentanyl but it's close um it's super add Ive um and and seeing more and more of this collateral with the weed stuff I've fought or my teammates have fought uh it's an isolating type of drug you know it's not like Hey we're going to go get a high because we need an upper we're going to try some of the you know weaker meth that we had when you and I were teenagers I never would never touch that stuff but I had a lot of friends that did you know I have a lot of guys that have recovered that I grew up with that said man that stuff was nasty you know but I got I got out of it it didn't harm me beyond belief I'm still doing okay but at this point this P2P stuff the overdose happens in an instant you have heart failure seizure these people are dead and it's so isolating you don't want to party with people when you're on this P2P meth it's super addictive you just are paranoid of everybody you become psychotic you get dangerous you get isolated and you are that you know you are like that stereotypical cliche zombie meth guy in a bad movie but it's true and the money they're making off that meth now and our kids are being exposed to that because meth is coming back all over over the country um it's all over Central California it's all over the Midwest um it's all over Montana I can tell you the meth uh problem in Lincoln County before I even moved there and resided there and my you know my family's seen it for the better part of 20 30 years and it just has continued to stay stable but this new meth is just like fentanyl over the previous opioids it's just nasty and you don't get that warning like you said where um you're going to have a bad reaction but you might learn from your mistake you're not going to learn from your mistake going to end up dead or your kids are so we need we need all this needs to be out we need to talk about it with them and we need to educate the heck and we have to those counter measures in place for sure as you just I had actually never heard of uh super meth of course doesn't surprise me and I also find that when things you know you're talking about a little bit of a a stair set system even when you the very first conversation we had talking about the legal grows in California and the chemicals that would be put on top of it you know so there's traditional weed if you will in the California sense and then there is the illegal grow and it's always this escalating competition how far I mean let's put our Nostradamus hats here we're in 2024 the early part of 2024 let's assume that the chemists are not going to stop messing around with these chemicals these Baseline chemicals because I'm sure PTP whatever the hell that stands for will be banned at some point in time if they can get access to how far how far can they take these things like what do you think this looks like in 10 years you know looking at what fentel morphed into Andy they can there's no limit There's No Limit I mean these chemists are very smart they're very creative um and they just experiment and I think there's a lot of dead people in the part of that experiment they just work their you know it's like a bad episode of Breaking Bad but it truly is making that blue meth that was highlighted in that television series and one thing I like about that series is it it it showed the chemistry involved it kind of went in depth a little bit to the concept of you don't need to be you know some mad PhD scientist out of like the Stanford think tank or you know some biolab these are Mexican these are Chinese these are cartel gangster chemists that have a little bit of Base knowledge and they're creative so they will continue to experiment they'll find something that will make them more money with no concern for life or humanity and that is going to get people addicted quicker so they can sell more product P2P um and I think it's oh man what does that stand for it's crazy but it's poly phenol 2 prop propanone is what P2P stands for that just sounds nasty whatever it is I'm not a chemist I'm a gay [ __ ] you know uh but given that given that you look at what they made super meth into and they made it more addictive and they're making more money from it fentanyl is a derivative of old opioids and heroin based organic product now it's you know a chemical concoction and it's multiple exponentially more deadly as we know from from basic opium or heroin and now look at the money it's making so they don't care so they're going to continue to escalate and I I think it's pretty boundless and it really comes down to the demand and it really comes down to the end user to avoid this stuff to test it um if it's not pharmaceutical grade as a legitimate FDA painkiller or using an anesthesia or something like that it it it just can't be out there and the only way we're going to stop it we're never going to stop it as you know because in America and in many other countries we have addictive societies we're constantly uh dealing with addiction we're dealing with abuse of these substances whether it's cannabis whether it's opium whether it's fentanyl whether it's meth we have to start at the ground level with our kids and educate them early and I think you're really on to something by saying guys this isn't the old days these chemists are making super stuff that'll K you in one fill swoop one bad pill one bad you know small Little Rock of of uh of men or whatever the case may be and you got to just be really careful if you're going to experiment or stay away from it altoe and I always talk I always go back to I remember right when we were starting the Met team man and we were in the pilot program and a couple years before prop 64 came in to play on regulating cannabis and cannabis was now going to be recreational legalized in California and there were a lot of kids in high school and I was remember I was up in Fort Brag doing some work there cartel work grow and then I got asked to speak to it was a high school assembly basically and come in and talk about all of the things you're seeing in this cannabis problem with these ban poisons and so you know I have a PowerPoint it's very graphic I don't hold back it's dead Bears it's you know froy mouth Mount Lions it's all the wildlife it's the polluted Creeks it's AKs and pungy pits and all the things we fought are canine stabbings we show how bad the the group is that make this stuff and then I show what it does to animals and I show what the pink looks like and I go guys I'm not here in uniform to say don't do drugs you know just say no we're not doing an' 80s campaign you're going to do what you're going to do and I just tell them whatever you do experimentation with weed or you know heav forbid anything else know exactly what you're getting into know what the source is because this stuff that you're seeing these graphic pictures of that discust you is 80 90% of the black market Nationwide coming from this side of the world from transnational criminal organizations this is not a legitimate weat farmer that I can tell you knowing several tier one regulated cannabis farmers in California they're as deeply devoted to Environmental Protection as you and I are Andy they love Wildlife some hunt some don't but the bottom line is they keep clean water they make a pure product uh they don't put poisons on it they have it certified they put a lot of money and time into water conservation and everything else under 11 different plus permits they need from agencies like my old agency um um California's a regulatory Guru uh just basically mind-blowing on what they require these cannabis Farmers to do and when you got legitimate cannabis is out you know as outraged as we are in the enforcement side of that stuff being so demanded and so lucrative that cels now Chinese are getting into it and neurotoxins are on it and our kids might get to that without even knowing it that was my point in this assembly and one of the gals that was the Val Victorian of that high school class was very anti-cannabis and written a paper and used a lot of that information and interviewed me for that and she told me she goes you know what Lieutenant after I had a lot of kids that you know were up in meno we're up in the Emerald Triangle there's a lot of cannabis consumption with all my friends I don't do it I've just stayed away from it but I have 10 or 11 that just said you know what I don't need to have the high with that risk I don't know where this weed's coming from at parties I don't know where this guy's getting this and you know what dispensary is it even coming out of a dispensary no I I I don't know that but seeing what that stuff is on that visual that's mind-blowing look what it did to a 400 lb black bear just a little teaspoon or a droplet of that poison that's on that joint it's on that bud so that was hope that was hope not telling him to stop but brother just saying hey guys just be careful and what you brought up like hey here's a test kit if you're going to an even more deadly you know a deadly drug like fentanyl or super meth um weed's one thing but now we're escalating to basically what called just a just basically a death pill it's a suicide tablet for lack of a better word because we know the dirty lab tablets there you're committing suicide without knowing it it's just boom there it is um but that was hopeful it was hopeful to see high school kids in the Emerald Triangle that is a cannabis consumptive uh sanctioned you know it's kind of the weed Capital within the weed state capital of the world and that was really really encouraging and this was before any of these issues that we're discussing now on these super crimes the cartels are doing and and I would not have anticipated what we're discussing now of being that even an issue back then and that's how much it's morphed in 10 years and so to your point it will get exponentially worse and we just have to make sure people are aware and and limit we're not going to stop it but limit that demand as much as possible through that awareness I think that's the best approach and then we got to just continue to hammer these cartel groups on penalties on going after them you know effectively aggressively whatever we need do um one of the questions that keeps coming up a lot is well all these other states it's regulated now why didn't this go away what's this hidden War weeds legal well yeah it is but what what is what is regulated done to that under let's take California's laws an example and know that Oregon Colorado Maine Oklahoma all the other states that go for revenue and they water down you know illegal cannabis operations they water down down those crimes the cartels go oh this is going to be great we're going to go to that state and they take California's example and the Chinese especially now are setting up in Oklahoma Michigan Maine in fact I'm I'm going to be training and and speaking in four states next month that are now dealing with this problem and their special ops guys from Highway Patrol fish and wildlife they're dealing with these massive contaminated weed Farms largely run by the Asian cartels now with those you know uh those smudge poot burning Aroma weird chemicals and they're going dude I mean we regulated like two years ago this was not supposed to be a problem now everybody they're moving in they're buying land and they're going crazy I said well you know welcome welcome to my world in California you know I politicked for two years as as the leader of that met unit that we formed to every lobbyist every environmentalist every lawmaker policy uh policy specialist and said guys we know it's coming we're going to regulate good let's regulate this stuff let's do it the right way but just regulate correctly don't take the bite out of the car HS Hammer them reward your legitimate cannabis grower that's doing everything by the numbers and we did just the opposite we watered down outdoor trespass or private land outdoor illegal indoor illegal from a felony to a misdemeanor and um you and I have talked about this before but other states have fallen suit and what have they done they've incentivized cartels to come into a a state and go all right I'm going to set up green houses hoop houses I'm going to grow 7 to 20,000 plants and five hoop houses on four properties I'm I'm going to pay cash for if I do get raid they're probably going to take my plants but that's it because it's a misdemeanor so if I have seven plants or 7,000 it's a misdemeanor for a juvenile it's a it's an infraction it's like a seat belt ticket really and then you know we're fighting cartels in the California Forest that literally have juvenile Apprentice coming up kind of like an fto program if you will that are 14 15 16 and they're getting groomed to do the job they're getting groomed to carry weapons they're getting groomed to evade and escape and they're just good Growers and now these kidss are in these grows and now it's a you know there's a human trafficking element of it because a lot of these Asian grows and now the Mexican grows too have gone mostly to the private land because they don't have to go deep into the national forest they don't have to hide because they really don't have much deterence that if they do get raid they know they're going to get raid but they probably have 20 30 other gross SES Andy set up in that county knowing that we they are just out producing law enforcement and knowing how thin we are on law enforcement res sources to handle it cisq county is an example Shasta um even right here in the tech capital of the world in Santa Clara I was just at a cattle branding on a ranch that I do a lot of protective work on that I've grown up on um just the day before yesterday and there were a bunch of uh special op Sheriff's guys that were on SWAT some snipers some guys that had done metw work with them that I hadn't seen in 10 years it was old homecoming and I'm going how's your team doing they're like well we're like two guys and we don't have just a cannabis team and we don't have just a white dope fentanyl team we do it all I saidwell how much are you getting they go we're we're getting what we can which read between the lines they're doing the best they can with what they have they are completely outnumbered uh so again there uh these cartel groups are going to continue to get by with impunity unless we throw a ton more resources at them and and like you and I have discussed it can't just be a law enforcement operator attack that's not going to solve the problem but what we get to from the education and awareness I think is a big part of not completely solving it but at least maybe lessening the impacts and getting more Americans in tune with this is our homeland let's treat this as a priority and let's start to see state by state by state have programs education in schools early on Parental stuff like you said with test kits or awareness or having that weird conversation that you know the next experimentation may not be just a a sedate cannabis joint it could be a fentanyl pill or it could be something Lac with P2P super meth and you know life's over literally your life's over so we need to look at it that way for [Music] sure there's a lot of things I like about the mountain tff program but I think primarily what I enjoy is they focus on mental toughness in addition to just the 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because a Sovereign Nation Tribal Bia police they can't do anything off tribal lands and they can't really deal with people that aren't tribal members so and then the flip side of it is like sheriffs game ordens that work for the state or for the county can't enforce without a memorandum of understanding with the Bia and with those those tribal police officers and that has to usually be blessed by the chief of that particular tribe so until it gets so bad that everybody is going to work together wants to work together the cartels go well this is great you know I go on to reserv ation land I go into this small tribe I go on to let's say the Cheyenne tribe in north eastern Montana and I find out who the low-level dealer is that's getting a few fentanyl pills some of this super meth from some mid-level dealer that we supplied ultimately because we make it but we're not actually running the operation and then I go and I find I can make $100 a pill in this little tribal town in the middle of nowhere there's two Bia cops that are running around you know for three four 500 square miles and I'm just going to I'm just going to ingratiate myself they send like they call it an advanced team it's it's not really a hard you know sario violent you know um go to guns type team like we might see in a grow site during Harvest time but it's a group that'll go in and they'll just get to know people they'll kind of immerse themselves they won't be make too many waves they'll usually ingratiate themselves to some of the women that are that are in the town that you know can use a little extra money because obviously we're in a remote area there might not be a lot of resources there and they'll start to be that supplier they'll say hey we got a better fentanyl pill blah blah blah blah blah and you know you collect money for me you work for me for a while they start to collect that money and it's $100 a pill not three to five and pretty soon debts start accumulating and then the violence starts and a little more intimidation comes in and now it's like I'm running this show you want to keep your family alive this is what you're going to do and we're going to take over this town and they do and at that point when they take that town over they've got so many people strung out on this drug because the word is spreading you know you got impoverishment you got poverty you know it's people are having hard times and boom they're starting to use this drug and now the cartels are making a ton of money and they leave this you know completely addicted rung out and strung out little Township and they just move on to the next one and they take literally a lot of those assets that come from those small towns and uh Stacy Zin who was a de agent that did that whole case that that article I sent you a link to it blew my mind that she was an El Paso Texas DEA agent right on the border so that was obvious she was working tons of border control stuff dea's you know Forte to be down there with Border Protection border patrol and us and Texas Troopers um and then she goes to Afghanistan to get into the you know illegal poppy farming and the Mid Eastern transport and then she goes and there's drugs in Montana and they're sending me where they're sending me to like billions or whatever Montana that what am I doing there you know like was punitive or something and then she got there and saw exactly what it was and before she retired what I really liked in researching that case is she dug in so deep and realized how pervasive it was that actual halisco new generation and or caloa cartel members were actually coming up to Montana bringing stuff across the border trafficking back and forth to get to an area where they could work with impunity make a ton of money because of everything we discussed today no resources really remote hardly any Bia officers they can't enforce strangers coming in but they can't really call a lot for help for sheriffs for local jurisdictions outside of the tribe so the cartel just played in that chaotic unsupported remote area which looking at it now Montana and any of the rural states that are left in the Northwest and the Northeast really are they're right for the picking for these guys because they're going to deal with the same thing maybe not as bad as we have it in Montana because you're right we have a ton of tribes we have more I think tribal diversity between the and I know the crow have a ton of history on your side of the hill and on my side of the hill over Lincoln County and then the black feet and there are there are many other tribes but that's a Target now and when you really get to working hand inand with our indigenous Nations I go back to again when we formed up the met we had an operation Andy called operation pristine and it was 31 days long it was August of 2013 and I remember you and I talked about we started on I think right after the 4th of July weekend and we were going to to mid-september we had a 90day window when I handpicked my guys to basically prove what the team could do why it was necessary and how much of a difference it might make from the standpoint of not only the effectiveness of stopping these grow sites cleaning them up taking out the bad plants restoring waterways taking out poisons and basically trying to arrest and get these guys out of circulation these hardcores um and I remember we were teamed up we had one military Pave Hawk team at a mofet field and we had basically the counter drug task force of SF guys like yourself um and the PJs and the Air Force guys that when they weren't deployed overseas they were on counterdrug based right here in the Bay area and we had we had a Pave Hawk and a ground crew and two flight Crews teamed up and had that opportunity so we jumped at it and so we were going all over the state doing everything we could literally no days off for the whole month of August and in the middle of that we got a letter request from two tribal nations in California and I looked back on this and I mentioned it a little bit in Hidden war and talked about it because it it was such an honor relations between Bia officers and local law enforcement state or federal you know you always have a little bit of tension right because obviously we can't enforce like game laws on their place they can do what they want to do and vice versa and this was the one time where they said hey Northern California the Trinity River they called our team they called Administration said we are underwater with these cartel grows we think some of our people might be actually on the take to make these cartel grows happen um you know a couple of our little Villages and our little townships you turn on the water and it's down to a trickle we literally won't have drinking water because so much water is being sucked dry for this weed can your can your new met team come in and help us and I thought what a great thing for American relations for one what a great opportunity two what are we going to see in there how bad is it going to be and then we realized how bad it was and we realized realized how short staffed they were and how a lot of them did not have the training they didn't have the experience and they didn't have the resources to go up against an armed cartel contingent like the stories you and I have already shared but I think what that did is it really really built Bridges and I thought about this Montana story of how tribal and so many um non-tribal enforcement agencies are just so overwhelmed that they're not working together that again goes to the education and the and the solution we need to work with our tribal Nations Nationwide because the cartel is going to Target them first obviously in this this Montana example couldn't come in a better time on the hot button issue of what's happening at the border right now what everybody's hoping for I know a lot of us at least in this conversation something's got to change in 2020 God willing we'll see what changes but attack it up here attack it on the southern border as well and uh and and make that change and just start slowly turning that tide around and to your point it won't be overnight it'll be years and years but uh it can't go on indefinitely Or I think we'll lose the country yeah what would be your best guess let's let's think about this you know precursor chemicals come into a port in southern Mexico I feel at this point it's a pretty well-known yeah piece of evidence that they're not really hiding it oftentimes received by you know a militant Port reception at some point the precursors are turned into uh a dose of fentanyl right what would be your best estimate the travel that that we'll call it a pill for ease of describing it that goes from south of our Southern border and makes its way all the way up to one of these tribes in northeastern Montana that is sometimes viewing distance from the northern border which they're not using yet I think that there are probably some yeah yet because of the ease but what would you say the life of a fentol pill how do you think it goes from birth and makes its way all the way up to a Northeastern Montana Cheyenne tribe well one thing about fentanyl is you can get a lot of them made in a cook right a million several million fentanyl pills don't take up that much space and that's why the cartel's brother have just jumped on this fentanyl trade because you get tons of money out of a fentanyl cook you make the pills are small it's not like big bundles of weed right it's not like cocaine bricks they don't weigh anything they're very easy to hide so they're made in those dirty labs in Mexico they're made you know sometimes a million two million pills at a time and then that stuff's just broken down in a packages and that that million fentanyl pills they're not all going to go to Northeastern Montana they're going to be divvied up just like the weed was and and and the meth has been and the cartels we've seen both embedded and making the stuff in America and how it gets distributed but also how the stuff down south of the M gets distributed the one hiccup is or used to be was getting that stuff across the border because you might have a little interdiction right now getting getting anything across the border by these cartels it's it's it's a strategy and a tactic flooding the cross points tying up Border Protection agents doing what they're doing and the cartels basically have a free walk you know on on a non you know guarded border um and they get their stuff across it used to be a little harder back in the day when we started this job but we still were able to get it across and then it just gets to delineated distribution centers that you know there's a cartel Plaza boss somewhere in there's one in Southern California there's one in Northern California we know there's one up in the cter lane area of idah we know there's you know these large level Plaza bosses that basically oversee certain regions of the country and they oversee it not only for weed but they oversee it for a lot of these things trafficking of humans fentanyl meth cannabis and then they have their Distributors set up and they have a distribution route and it's just going from person to person to person to get to where it has to go where they can make the most money and this particular case on the Montana uh the Montana case that was interesting is they were having an actual operative bringing this stuff across the border and driving it all the way himself or jumping different various Transportation methods to get up to Montana to start to infiltrate something so that's very rare from what we've seen that tells me that the backyard of our home state brother was very very A-list on that particular cell with the cartel to send an actual operative that's a distributor and not just funnel it out like a cell so they can stay insulated I mean he exposed himself to a lot of risk going that far out and because he's coming from the supply source so that told me that I'm very alarmed about the Montana impact um in general obviously um they don't say it's uh you know the last great part of America for nothing and I'm not I'm not trying to bias or disparage any other state but I think there's a there's a they say that about Wyoming sir not Montana Wyoming has a lot of polar bears or Montana yeah Montana has polar bears Wyoming doesn't have any it's the last great place so let's not Advocate people rushing okay all right my bad yeah yeah the best kept secret I'm sh anyway but you know what and and not to and just look at Montana go to yeah like you said Wyoming go to parts of Idaho go to parts uh go to Maine you know right now Maine is one of the most remote beautiful States New Hampshire some of the high mountains there my co-host for Warden watch in the thin Green Line podcast um did his career there and I didn't even know a lot about that state I've never been there and I'm seeing what's there and I know these cartels are there now and Fentanyl am issue and there you go and they're again making a lot of money in those rural mountainous quote unquote not overblown City populated pristine States and definitely we have it at home and I'm concerned and I'm concerned and I'm glad this was brought up to get a little attention I was really it was really interesting to see when that article dropped when I shared it what the comments were and how much it was shared you know and I tagged all of our little circle of people that we work with to say you know I'm not just saying this is a Montana problem because I love Montana I'm saying if it's here and they can make it this much of an issue here it's everywhere and we know it's everywhere yeah so I think that's the best thing to wake Americans up with that if we could again this is another hypothetical because it's impossible but I'm just curious to what you think the capabilities of the cartels are let's say for whatever reason or capability we develop we are actually able to hard shut down their ability to move things across the southern border how fast do you think that they could lateral though and what do you think their move would be I think you'd start to see it would just be a shift in method um they're going to find another Market some other way um you're going to see more tunnels being built let's say if you can't just get across the border uh with we lock the Border down we don't have that flood we don't have those very easy routes to go in now um PAB boats you know the payab boat thing was huge up until the Border just went to you know basically an open walkway um panga boats were really really effective because they're so random and where they're going to where they're going to hit and with the panga boat just so everybody knows listening viewing if you don't know a panga booat is a one-way boat built to leave Central Mexico go around the point come off the Western Shoreline of the Pacific Ocean and basically land somewhere between the San Diego Mexico border and the Canadian and US border on the Pacific Ocean where they can get into a beach Scuttle a boat and they can have the first couple panga boats we saw Andy we're talking 6,000 pounds of weed of Tainted weed that was you know done in me basically in Mexico grow operations because they would still continue and they still will continue to produce it down there as well as do it up here because they just need to keep the supply going um that might have lessened now with the Chinese involvement um but panga boats are still an issue and then it was meth was coming up on the panga boats and then it was just people um I remember during Co it was an average of 21 panga boats per month were hitting the Pacific western coast Shoreline on the Pacific Ocean in random places um we interdicted many with Allied agencies in montere point Lobo Santa Cruz we had some down at Big Sur we had some on the Oregon border and you know these things are 250,000 to 500,000 to make they've got all the bells and whistles with the big fourstroke motors that are painted to look like the ocean to be undetectable or or harder to detect um they've got two operators enough fuel they have to refuel maybe once way way off the shore 100 miles or more out off the San Diego Coastline if they have to refill at all their arm they got GPS and as soon as they hit the point that they're going to hit on that GPS you know on a no moon or moderate Moon night they've got people waiting to pick them up to pick up their load that boat gets just scuttled it's in the bay leaking oil doing its thing um I would see that coming back that's been effective kind of like when you know the the the cocaine cartels were doing the submersibles the subs um they're going to do anything they can uh the the tunnels they're building right now are like they're like major major product uh thoroughfares for vehicles now they're getting big enough to drive trucks through it's not just a a little rail car you know that they're moving drugs and stuff and people um they're discovering more of those so there's a lot of money in it and what we got to remember is these cartel groups Al New Generation especially and you look at caloa and you look at how advanced they are on equipment now on Weaponry on tactics um on vertical integrating their structure with distribution to production uh to defending it to laundering money they're as good as any Corporation in America they really are so they're going to Pivot to another method unless we put a lot of effort into watching for pangas we start to make you know tunnel detection a major priority and those things are hard to find they pop up randomly sometimes we find them sometimes we get tipped to them but they will they'll just pivot to another method unless we stop it on this side and we just don't demand that anymore so I don't think we ever completely stop it uh but I think we can drastically slow it down we just got to put the resources there man we just got to put the resources there and we're just not doing that now yeah I would agree with you all right Mr norres leave us with some hope I'm going to give you the final words we're coming up to the end of our time here we have basically described a future zombie apocalypse that we're all going to have to fight our way through Let's uh let's leave the audience with a little bit of Hope what keeps you in I mean you're directly involved in this what keeps you hopeful and inspired and fired up to still fight this fight you know I I'm very hopeful Andy and and I think um we bull share a little bit of optimism because we love our country so much I think we're very blessed to have we have an amazing amazing even with all the crap going on in the United States right now just spend a day in Mexico spend a day overse in any third world country I mean you and you and I have both fought for what we really love for our families for our friends and I want to see our country Thrive and I do have a lot of Hope because I see those of us in the fight still doing it realizing that hey we're not you know we're not getting it all today we might not ever get all of it but every grow site that's clandestine that we take out every fentanyl lab every fentanyl seizure we do every cartel cell that we stop we know we save a ton of lives and for me and you we save a lot of wildlife we save a lot of Wildlife Resources a lot of waterways a lot of wildlands that's near and dear to my heart and I and and now that when I realized that the cartels were imp packing that as well as all the public safety things I said there's no bigger enemy to me in the world right now because it's in our backyard and it's attacking everything I love um but what I what I like right now is what gives me hope is the awareness and the positive responses I get from far left and far right when they're fully aware of exactly what's going on it's been very very unifying I I I think we talked a little bit about this before one thing that made the last six years of my career running that unit was going to very liberal let's say demographic Growers or people that were anti-hunters or preservationists not conservationists and seeing the damage that these cartels are doing to say our Wildlife Resources and then the hunters and the conservationists where you and I sit feeling that same outrage and being unified on that and not fighting with each other on it and finding a common enemy just like post 911 for that that little window and you you commented on that beautifully I mean we had a time man after those terrorist attacks in September two uh 2001 I was like man I feel like everybody's helping each other out and my neighbors are actually talking to me when I talk about this issue or we show visceral examples of it we get a lot of frustration we get a lot of shock but one thing we get a lot of is agreement we get a lot of unity and that's what gives me hope on this thing and when it comes to educating kids I think it's going to bring families together I don't think it's going to polarize I think you hit it on the head when you talked about test kits or discussions at least we're breaching that bubble you know and I think that's what's giving me hope when uh during Congressional testimony Andy bipartisan committee obviously it was a republican Congressman that brought that committee together for that issue but uh the bipartisan support as a whole on that issue when we started talking about the environment and we started getting Way North and now I'm going to use California and now Montana as an example nobody was no one was fighting in that committee at that point the the the Rivalry going on in Congress that we see daily and I saw a little bit of it during earlier testimony from previous witnesses that came in I was the fif I was the last of five to testify that day and do Q&A and if anybody wants to see that testimony in the Q&A go to my YouTube channel it's like a 12-minute edit it's not that long but it shows you the mindset of this Congressional committee and they were working together for a moment I actually saw it I went okay this is very very hopeful and then that same committee got even larger and they went down with a bunch of senators and and Congressional delegates both on the Democrat and the Republican side and they went to the southern border about a month later and started to analyze everything that was going on what the trafficking levels were how much stuff was getting in and I was starting to see like policym minded people getting outraged that might actually make a change for the better and that's why I have hope and a lot of it's because we're doing right what we're doing right here and I'm incredibly grateful to you and Jack and Montana knives and Ironclad you know for having us together and for you diving in with me on cleared hot man um I think we're a big part of the solution just by educating people and if we care other people are going to care too we just just got to let them know all right everybody I hope you enjoyed today's episode if you want to learn more about John and the work he has done or is doing please visit John on norris. comom thank you again for listening to change agents in Ironclad original presented by Montana Knife Company we're going to be back next week with an all new episode see you guys then today's episode of change agents is brought to you by the Navy SEAL foundation and they are special to me for obvious reasons have a genetic tie to them through my time in service and I've actually worked with them on a variety of fundraising and charitable initiatives their entire mission is to provide critical support for warriors veterans and families of Naval special Warfare fundraising is really hard it's hard to ask people for money especially if you are asking them for a check with nothing in return um I wish I could say it would be as easy as pulling on 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Channel: IRONCLAD

Views: 300,421

Keywords: Law Enforcement, True Crime, Drug Policy, Public Safety, Documentary, Organized Crime, Wildlife Conservation, Drug Trafficking, Crime Prevention, Border Security, Investigative Reporting, Drug War History, Law and Society, Narcotrafficking, Environmental Crime, Rural America, Community Action, Government Response, ironclad, change agents, andy stumpf, John Nores

Id: KEQ9gBVZKmY

Length: 69min 10sec (4150 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 20 2024