Eps. 354: Bear Advice With A Master Alaskan Guide

[Music] hello everyone welcome to another episode of Ron sper Outdoors podcast this episode brought to you by appropriately enough knives of Alaska and the reason I say appropriately enough is because our guest today is from Alaska he is a master guide in Alaska with Decades of experience including how to handle big brown bears if you don't want to get beaten up by a brown bear I would stay tuned to listen to Mr Phil shoem maker hello Phil welcome to the show hi Ron how you doing up there doing just fine it's still winter winter doesn't want to leave yet and we got bear season starting in uh a few weeks on Kodiak and almost a month from now on the peninsula wow you're going to be heading out there pretty quick then huh we're packing up and sending Supply out this week wow so Phil for folks to understand where you are coming from I have known you for many many years now but not everybody in the world does although you're you know fairly famous especially for your episode with the handgun and the big brown bear that we're going to talk about but before we go there I'd like to get a little background information on you obviously you're uh not 20 years old how long have you been a a hunting guide in Alaska uh this is is my 45th year of guiding in Alaska 45 yeah yeah now you moved up to Alaska roughly what year was that uh permanently in 80 1980 and that's when I started guiding I came up a few times in the 70s but just to kind a look around and it it stuck yeah apparently been there ever since now you've got a a homestead there did you literally live in the Alaska Bush while you were doing your business and then raising your family we have we have virtually the whole time we have we started out um living in the bush to raise our kids our kids were you know we my wife wouldn't let me deliver them at home I offered but uh other than that they've grown up in a hunting camp since they were infants and both of them guide now as well yeah yeah I visited with Tia several times she's a heck of a hunter she's uh guys Tia Phil's daughter is a slender gal who guides brown bear hunters and she shoots a 416 Remington so the Apple didn't fall very far from the tree on this one so Phil when you started guiding up there um did you have to work for somebody else to get started as a guide yes you do you have to spend at least three years um working as an assistant guide for somebody before you can even apply and then be signed off to apply to get your full registered guide license and then to become a master guide what's required uh basically if you stay out of jail it helps a lot and then um at the time it was I think 15 years of continuous guiding with contracts uh signed and recommendations from numerous clients uhhuh now I know you're down on the Alaska Peninsula that's where you homesteaded have you done all you're guiding down there no I've guided pretty much all over the state I started in the chwat range and then I had a guide area up in Brooks range for years so we were guiding you Grizzlies and caribou and doll sheep and pretty much everything but then once I moved on to Peninsula 34 years ago 35 years ago um pretty much specialized just in big brown bears down there yeah and that brings us to the event that I think everyone's interested in folks Phil was forced to shoot a brown bear who was threatening his clients we're going to let him tell the story but the upshot is that he successfully did that using a handgun that you're probably not going to believe so I think without any further Interruption Phil I would love you to tell us the story about that incident exactly what happened well but I I can I can do it's still kind of vividly burned into my memory um but I was I had I had a clients they brought there they had two two young young ladies they'd come up with this two or three times uh he was Professor from Cornell and his wife and two they were teenage daughters at the time and they' they'd fish with us multiple times and we we see Bears virtually every day we were fishing but this day uh it was too windy I couldn't fly in the morning so the kids got doing something with my daughter and uh then looked like I could probably make it to a close Creek so I took the ask who wanted to go fishing and the husband wife wanted to go fishing and the kids wanted to stay with Tia they were teenage daughters they weren't tiny kids and uh so we flew off and walking walking down to the stream there's an old Dry Creek bed that ran parallel to it and it was overgrown the grass was it places chest high it was wasted chest High Grass and then along on the sides five yards on either side of us were with the trees and as we came around to B I heard a growling in the bushes ahead of us and it was he was coming toward us and I yelled and hollered and had my pistol out well the and the bear turned around and ran well the pistol I had picked as we left the plane I had a I 44 magnum I've carried for 30 some years and I just done some testing uh for Tim sunless from Buffalo bour he'd sent me some 9mm ammo and I tested I took it out that was just a week before and I'd set up some damp magazines and dry ones and kind of a typical gun writer how how deep would these penetrated and I try all the other bullets along with it and the 9 mimet was not far behind the 357 that I carry with 180 grains and I thought I had shot bears with that before just carcasses to test I never had to had to kill one um an unwounded bear I'd killed plenty of bears clients had wounded but um and I thought the 9 Miller would do it and it late in the afternoon I said you know this thing is a lot lighter than my 44 so I thought I'll just stick it on I'm going have fish this Creek for 30 something years so we walked down there and no sooner had we got there this bear comes charging out but I hollered and it turned and ran away which is what most bears do but what it then within 20 seconds we had turned around just go start walking again and the bear had circled around got downwind and was coming straight back at us at full I could hear him in the bushes just and branches were crashing and I knew I wouldn't see him he would be within 12 15 ft of me before I could even see him in the grass and he was coming I was thinking you your brain's going fast in these times I'm thinking you know even my 458 I'll be lucky to get a shot off at this Paar and he he knows who we are because he's already circled around got our wind and is coming back and he's sounded pretty serious um but as he just as he came out the clients were 20 feet behind me and as the bear came out he went straight for the clients and for their benefit they they they just grabbed each other husband put his arm around they put his arm around each other and fell down in the grass and the bear was standing on them I looked and I look where's the bear he's standing on me as he's swinging ahead side toide uh highly agitated but confused because I Bears when they run into more than multiple people they're they're they're they're figuring things out too and I can see he was standing I saying do am I going to have to shoot this bear I don't want to he was maybe 12 15 feet from me at at the most and uh and then I was thinking where are my clients uh whatever I did I didn't want to shoot a client that's I think for guides that's pretty much a bad career move so I plus they were friends so so as the Bears I think well he's he knows who we are all this goes through your mind in Split seconds he knows we're here he knows who we are he's come back intentionally to attack us so I figured I had to shoot him so I popped him with a 9 mimer right behind the shoulder the head was just swinging side just there was no the head was bouncing back and forth he's looking around looking for the clients look at because he he is literally standing on top of him they told me at the end did he literally have his paws on their flesh yes the the woman she says he could have bit us at any time his face was right at my face level she could could see he was standing on above them but je was always right above them and the head was just going back and forth over them and uh so I said I didn't know they were gone as far as I was concerned I knew where I'd seen them last and there was a bear standing there now but I didn't know what had happened to them because I'm my my concentration was on the bear coming out of the bushes and so I finally said okay I'm going to have to shoot him I popped him right behind the shoulders where the same place I'd shoot with a rifle and he roared and he turned and spit at it and then as he turned back around again I he I'm thinking okay do I have to shoot him again it's like so well yes I got to so I popped him again same results turn Roar bit at the wound turned back around I hit him again it was kind of a whacka mole then every time he'd turn sideways I'd shoot him again right in the same spot right behind the shoulder and I can see he was kind of getting tired of the game and he did one more time I hit him the third turned around hit him the fourth time and he ran and he turned run I'm usually you know I've been after all these years of wounded bear is getting away I try to break his hip but I'm carrying the four five8 so I I shoots him in the rear again thinking and then I thought what am I doing he's leaving that's all I wanted at this moment was the bear be F and but I I saw him pile up not uh 10 yards away he just he just nosed over and piled up and they two heads popped up out of the grass I was glad to see that and they said we heard your warning shot and I'm think I that's what warning shot and but there had been a pause between my first one and the second one they and I guess they I must have picked up Tempo a little bit afterwards I wasn't aware of it but they were and uh so your your final shots were pretty quick they were pretty quick and I thought well he was still moving I thought I'm going to go over and finish him off I mean I kind of what I do I don't I started walking over I said I better look I had one round left and I said I'm not going after a wounded brown bear with a single shot 9 mm and uh yeah then the lady says and the lady says are we going fishing still and I said well if you want to yeah we can go and she says I don't really feel like it so I can believe it so we walked Walked back the plane wasn't maybe I don't know 100 yards behind us I just lost an earbud here plane was real close we wasn't 100 yards behind us we walked back flew back to camp and when I got out of the U airplane Tia was there my daughter cuz she had seen us leave and she knew something was wrong she says why are you back I said we had a DLP which by Al last that means the defense of life and property that's the way Alaska and you know her face just went white and she looked make sure everybody was safe uh my concern was if I'd had two teenage girls also at there at the same time I have no idea what would happened um yeah but the president of Mind of those two adults who fell in the grass like that's pretty amazing it was they just literally grabbed me I I don't think they had been practicing any Maneuvers but it it was perfect uh it could not have ended any better except maybe the bear run off before I killed it but uh yeah yeah H how big was that bear it was probably 8 900 lbs he was he was a mature bear um I think he was about 12 years old um n and a half uh foot bear by trophy standards it was summertime so he was a little leaner than they they are but and he had been feeding he had a lot of fresh scars and fresh wounds on his ears and his face and the whole time we were skinning and we came back and skinned him because the fishing game requires you tur in the hide with the claws and everything and skull and uh there was Bears fishing we could hear them 25 yards away from us in the creek we were going to fish uh they were still there fighting so I think that bear had been in a fight um probably lost it and or run somebody else and he wasn't going to have anymore he tried to run us off yeah sure sure that makes sense as we skin I did notice all those one of those rounds was sticking out of the meat on the other side it had penetrated all the way through the bear and was under the hide uh most of them were already in the hard lung area which he was just hemorrhaging blood uh that's why he died so fast but uh they did get the penetration that I had had had estimated they would with my testing but I I don't recommend a 9 mm but it was Buffalo Bore makes his 147 grain hard cast flat noose bullet uhhuh what was the rough uh velocity you probably know the velocity of it it's around 1300 feet a second 1300 he made those I talked to Tim at length afterward and he said you know I made those he said I he's a big board guy he said but I made them for for people who didn't really want to buy some sort of hand Cannon um they don't want to buy a 44 Magnum or a 454 and but they if they would work he said I just sent them to you to see if what you thought of them and I said well they will work um yeah and it's a whole lot easier carrying a little you know Glock or Sig or something that's lightweight with you um and my experience with Bears I mean I've I get charged at least half a dozen times a year I mean and they're Bluff charging you can usually scare a bear off um there was a possibility that bear would if you'd seen three people he might have been scared off too but uh but unwounded Bears act different than wounded bear wounded bears are fighting for their lives uh an unwounded one doesn't I I might have pulled the same thing off with the 22 I don't know I'm not going to try but um but it worked so but normally what are you packing for a bear in case of a self-defense sort of thing like this surely you're carrying a 44 or something no for years and years I carried a 357 with 180 grain bullets they out penetrate this one um and then the the late gun riter Finn aard came up and I told him I had a 357 he thought well why not a 44 and I said well it's where you hit him is the most important thing uh it doesn't matter how you know six misses with a you know 454 cou not going to do any more than about two hits with a 9 mimer it's a lot easier to hit and when I got home after DED settle for a day or two both my wife Rocky and my daughter diaa said why were you carrying a 9mm don't you know better I said well let's go down the shooting range and I got a whole bunch of little square wooden blocks we set in I set them out there about 10t in front of us about like like the bear was and I gave him my 44 I said see how many of those you can hit as fast as you can well you've shot 44 magnum especially light Mountain guns and you're the your cover out from The Recoil and it's slow and you're trying to get again and and uh then I gave them the 9 millimeter said how many of these can you hit now and they're going pop pop pop pop pop and they're hitting them and he goes huh I guess you're right uh yeah hits hits count misses big loud misses and and speed counts I can get three I went out time myself afterwards I get three shots off uh and and hits on close range uh with a 9mm versus one with a the 44 magnet uh and when you're when you're nervous when you're scared when the world's collapsing on you and your fine motor skills are gone um and the you got three chances of hitting it instead of one yeah well Phil address this for me so many people when we're talking about handguns for Bears one thing is they'll often say what a joke you might as well save it for yourself because you can't stop a bear with a handgun any kind of a handgun there's that theory and then there's the well if you're going to have one it has to at minimum be a 44 magnum and if I were doing it I'd carry a 500 Smith and Wesson what are the arguments for and against that uh try it like I just said you get more hits off with a gun you're familiar with uh the the the old gun Rider um what's B um no no second place winner Bill Jordan um yeah he was I don't know how many gunfights he had been in he was a Phenom with a gun he said he couldn't shoot a 44 magnum he he said and he because he said he shows him in his book the involuntary your your eyes closed the recoil the noise he said you can't hit as well as a gun that you can you know comfortably shoot with quickly with and Hits Count more than than horsepower um yeah and and everybody likes to think yeah I when a big bear is after you or you think it is no gun feels big enough I I can vouch for that but um what really counts is being able to put a bullet in it and hit it yeah okay so if a 9 millimeter or 10 millimeter or a 357 are adequate probably not idea ideal with a 9mm but it's adequate but a big part of that is a bullet right it's you've got to have the right bullet you need yes and you need a bullet that penetrates and s these a bullet that does not expand because on on an animal that weighs 800 lb it needs to go through you're not shooting you know bad guys that are 150 PB bad guys you're shooting a massive animal and what people confuse is hunting a hunting gun and a self a protection gun uh there's two different things and if I'm going hunting no you're not taking a 9 millimeter I I'll take a I'll take a 454 or your 475 line ball or 500 Smith and weson those are a lot better hunting guns you're more likely if you're sneaking in you got one shots you can take your time carefully and aim and put a 50 caliber in them yeah that's the best uh but but all of a sudden you get a big adrenaline dump and something's coming at you from unknown sizes and and uh you've got to shoot fast that's a different ball game than it is with sneaking up on something and shooting b h it yeah so the 9mm you were carrying was was it a standard size or a compact how many rounds did you have it had it had it carried eight it was a Smith and Wesson model 39 with the double action only I like that one for the here again for Simplicity there's no levers buttons anything else you just pull it just like a double action revolver each shot yeah yeah nice well that's good to know now you mentioned actually hunting and I think it's worth talking to an expert like you about bears and bear hunting uh and the same thing applies you know so many people think you need at least a 458 to go bear hunting and be successful at taking a Grizzly or a brown bear what have been your experiences over your long career up there I've killed bears with other than 9mm um I used a 30 out6 for years when I first started um in the late 1970s and 80s nazer quit making their 375 partitions I was a very big fan of the partitions and they were hard to come by well they had just they were gearing up to make them by by stamping them out rather than turning in turning them down but I couldn't get any so I went from my 375 back to a 30 y 6 as long as I get partitions the bullets what does the killing I don't care how big the gun is um and so 30 out six is fine the world record Big Bear the world record bear still been killed by the 30 outd six uh the old Kodiak guides Bell and tffs and I mean everybody recommended a 30 out six and basically that's the minimum but with a good bullet it will do the job um they'll shoot clear through any bear that ever walk so and placement what weight bullet oh the biggest bear client biggest bear we ever had probably weighed 1,800 lbs it was absolutely morbidly obese um he had a single shot from a 300 weatherbe and single shot with 180 green bullet um yeah and but a good bull whether it's a partition or a Barnes X or a swift A-frame or trophy boted or there's we have as many good bullets right now but a heavier weight will usually penetrate a little deeper um MH and on a big animal like that penetration is uh is key if you miss miss something you might going to keep going hopefully hit something else vital yeah yeah you like to shoot through or do you not care some guys will say oh gosh you have to have dumping all that energy into the animal that's what kills it I argue against that all the time but what has been your experience I I agree with you completely it's I would rather have two holes bleed more than one um um and I just soon the bullet come out the other side the difference in energy dump um as you want to call it my 9 millimeter doesn't have a whole lot of energy compared to any rifle but uh you put it in the right spot it'll kill them uh and a pin and one the penetrates is going to leave leave more that that extra energy that you lose on the other side wasn't probably wouldn't have done any good anyway yeah that's been my experience so it's good to hear so if Hunter were coming up to hunt with you and had his dream hunt for his big brown bear uh what do you recommend they bring I recommend whatever they're com I ask them what do you have what do you like to shoot what are you comfortable with I had uh two brothers from Colorado they were both uh ranchers one of them had a seven mag he used to use a his a 25 out six when he went El cun his guide wouldn't let him shoot it so he got a seven a big seven mag uh he said that's what I've got he said my other brother he says he's he's coming can he bring his 270 and I said I knew they could shoot they're I said they're Colorado ranchers I knew they could shoot and I said sure he can bring if he gets 150 green partitions bring his 270 he shot a monster bear Record Book bear as it that it was it was close to the den he put one shot again right behind the shoulder as the bear turned to bite it he shot it again on the other side and the bear never left its track that 270 the Bear died right there uh and the guy with the 270 had one running up a hill he stuck one all the way through its lungs and uh it slid back down to Hill dead so where you put him there's no substitute for placement and uh or bullet performance yeah we argue what's the lightest what is the lightest cartridge or bullet that anyone's ever been successful with on your Hunts on our that 270 probably is the lightest on was it yeah yeah but I know I know locals that shoot them with two 23s um they put they put a couple holes in the lungs and they're going to die uh I wouldn't recommend it but it's I know a lot of Lo some some close friends in uh Circle hot springs they went in to buy some more ammo they were out of ammo for their mini14 and the guy at the Sportsman's Warehouse says you know what do you want what ammo do you want he said well just just for moose and bear and he got refused himself sell a ammo but they'd been doing it for years oh my God but they snuck up they snuck up close stick a couple rounds in it and uh but it that's different than a sport hunting and it's not something that uh I would recommend but it can be done but here again but it emphasizes the placement and performance are the two factors that they Trump everything yeah now something else about um bear rifles and handguns bullets and all the rest of it is this idea that you've got to be able to carry it right you mean you saw this with yours you could have packed your 44 or you could have brought along your 458 why didn't you bring your 458 when you're guiding fishing clients well because you're fishing it's kind of hard to carry a rifle and stuff and you're helping them fish and and uh bend it down help them take off fish with a rifle is is a pain so a whole family carries yeah carries handguns uh and yeah and well like I said we see Bears we run into bears at very close range with with handguns all all summer long they're brown bears are not typically aggressive they'll protect their their territory but they kind of look at people as another you know maybe a dominant bear so they they're actually pretty easy to get along with you just mind your business yeah now Grizzlies have the reputation interior Grizzlies are perpetually hungry uh whereas our bears are super wellfed um and so they're you know they might want that fishing hole and might want to chase you off the fishing hole but um they're not there's it's not the type aggression that you get with Grizzlies on the interior have you ever had any incidents with Grizz when you up in the Brooks range or in the chwat yes but I never had to shoot one again you can usually you can usually stand him down I mean bluffing is uh um bluffing Works looking him in the eye it's a dominous display I I had a I had a had another writer one time asked me say well everybody says you don't look him in the eye that's dominance I said you're darn right is dominance and do you want to be dominant or do you want to be you know submissive and so stand there and look Brave and and one good thing about EP pistol is it gives you the feeling of of it's easier to feel Brave when you got a gun if you're standing Punk make my day yeah it's a but yeah Big Bears recognize that if they run up to you and you're standing there and not afraid of them they're they're in intelligent being they're assessing the situation well if he's not afraid of me then maybe we don't need to do this yeah and then I I have done it with gz toas casion I've had to shoot a shot with a handgun or you know at a rock close by or Scare him off but that's uh and and a lot of times that here again it scares him uh I've scared him bear spray works too earbuds are falling out bear sprays works too but I found out that it's that as it comes out scares them more than inting hit by that Al so I've tried I get very well Clos I just go something new and different and a and a sharp noise um really so yeah it it's uh huh that's interesting have you and then I I hear from a lot of folks who say the bear spray doesn't work they'll run right through it if they're really angry if they're just curious and kind of bluff charging at stuff it does what's been your experience that's that's I've not if if there if I can tell it's a serious char I'm shooting um yeah but I've I've sprayed lots of bears with it and it's it's a great educational tool and I look at it you're saving the bear's life because um once they learn okay this stay away from people it just kind of reiterates you know it's it's uncomfortable around them and bear spray does that yeah no I would I would not want to carry one going after a wounded bear in the bushes I would that'd be kind of suicidal see I I got a letter from a fellow I read it on one of my shows here recently um and he said that he is an Alaskan and he uh one day was I don't know what he was doing out in the woods but he was by a tree or something and he he says who knows hyperbole but he says he felt the breath behind him on his neck he turns around and there's a Grizzly looking right on him and he had bear spray and he says he sprayed it right up his nose and of course the bear howled and ran off busting brush and just he said I don't know if he stopped running yet and I'll bet you he'll never come near a human being again because he did just what you said he trained him that this is probably not what you want to measure around with it is they do have they they've got a incredible memory um I had a a there were two small Bears there were there were twins there were two-year-old Bears mom had kicked him out and we we were fishing on the edge of a lake and I had we' caught some fish and I saw a bear coming so I was standing by the fish to protect them well one of the Bears is pretty brave he kept getting closer and closer and he got within I could have kicked him my he was within 3 ft of me and I can tell he was watching the fish he I knew what he was wanting and so I thought I'll just I had some bear spray so I sprayed him with bear spray and he he backed up washed his face in the water just like a raccoon would or something with his paws and and kind of stood looked at me and he walked away 20 minutes later uh he was he was on the bank 50 yards away from us and a fish a bunch of fish are you've probably seen the socke eyes they get all crazy and they get flopping around that they they get scared one of them popped up on the back next to him he ran over to that fish and they stopped and looked over it uh at me 50 yards away across and backed away from the fish uh after watching me he had learned he the same bear I had sprayed 30 minutes before um so he attributed okay the somehow try to take a fish away with this guy here hurts that's amazing wow but but likewise you know a bear that has used to especially in lower 48 people worried about you know Bears coming in take their their meat um if a bear's learned he can get away with it you got to untrain him for that too so that's got to remember that too sure yeah got any other wild adventures with bears up there how many years You' been hunting those now 40 years this my 45th year I started out hunting bears and sheep so it's by 45th year of getting bear hunters and we've been 35 living right there in the Refuge you know we live on a wildlife refuge it's a Wilderness Area it's according to Alaska fishing game it's the densest population of bears in the world um so we literally see Bears every every day we have them in our yard you and your wife raised but you and Rocky raised two kids in this Wilderness with the highest bear density in Alaska and no one's been injured by a bear no not at all matter of fact they've never even B we have a grill outside all summer long they've come around and they don't recognize it as human food uh there's enough fish around and now when if we've got moose meat hanging or I just butchered a bunch of fish for the day for meal then uh there's not a there's not a problem um amaz but they they'll come in to meat shed if we've got meat there they want in yeah I suppose now I I'd like to touch on some of the um anti- bear hunting stuff that's out there you know a lot of folks are going to say why would anybody shoot a bear they're in endangered species and you can't eat them and that's just a waste of time you're going to you're going to wipe them out has the bear population decreased in Alaska since you've been there not that I've noticed I mean all over the state bear populations are doing well especially we are we had a had a die off one year we had super heavy snows deep snows and a lot of the older Bears died into dents we found a few dead ones but the main predator on Bears is other Bears uh they kill the the big BS kill the they'll kill the Cubs to bring the S back into heat again and re breed her a couple weeks later they'll follow her around um so the bare population right now is probably a higher population I mean after that incident that was that was 10 12 years ago we saw a lot more SS with triplets and and and Twins and and now there it's it's it's back to back to normal again we still got good big Boors eating little cson so whose side are you on huh I'll be how much longer are you going to keep at it Phil long as I can I still I still love doing it I mean I look forward I look forward the beginning of every year and at the end I was like take a break and go do it again but uh go do it again huh what what's uh what's the average hunt like a client let's say come up to hunt with you I'm going to fly into Anchorage I suppose and then take a little Hopper plane over to to your place do you have to come and pick me up with your Cub or something or oh yeah we have my well my son runs an a taxi business too so he can fly him in we've got a local he also guides too and um actually the I transferred the federal concessions to him and my daughter so they they actually run the show I just work for them which is even better that's why I still like it cuz somebody calls in the middle middle of the night we're out of propane or we're out of that in this camp or this Camp's the tent leaking or whatever whatever of the million things that can go wrong I don't have to go jump in a plane the next morning and go take care of it I can just stay with my client and uh so I still I I used to do that too but it's a so we're all the family's involved the grandkids are there we got two sets of grandkids they're they live right there with us all five six months while we're in Camp and just like our kids did nice now when the hunter it gets to your place then you fly out to different spike camps tent camps or little cabins we have we have hunt we can hunt I mean we're right in the middle of Refuge our our Homestead I mean like I said bears come through I've taken a few Bears out of there on especially spring hunts you can sit there and glass out the window and see Bears uh we got some big bears come through if a hunter happens to be there the bear comes through it's like it's kind of hard to say well don't shoot that one um but yeah we fly out to a spike camp and most of our our our guide areas are all close by so the flights are 15 20 minutes tops to get to camp and we've got the tent set up and a and and a guide there or or a Packers or whoever's going to help out with their hot last year I had a father brought his son and his son's friend and so they both came and they wanted on the same camp and it took us uh three days to kill them both go big bears so wow is most of your hunts scheduled for 5 days or seven or what oh we we schedule them for 10 the seasons well it's it 11 day season we just schedule for the whole season and that way everybody's everybody pretty well gets a chance to pick through bears and and um see bears and because we hear that all the time I went so and so we didn't see bears and it's like well that's usually not a problem we have but we're picky and we occasionally you know somebody can't hike or or is real picky or wants a blonde bear instead of the big brown one or whatever but um we're usually very successful and we know I said we live there it's our home so we know where they come out in the spring we know we all put camps this spring uh my son want put me and a camp where we the Bears come over the mountains you know coming in the valley because there's Caribou are dropping Cals and moose are dropping Cals so the Bears know where that is so we've got our C do those Bears those Bears take a lot of uh ulet yes but it's specific bears and they're learning now they've been tracking them fishing game has been tracking bears and they in a couple places it's it's a small percentage but in some of these areas it'll be said three or four Bears will kill you know 90% of the bear the Ulus in the Val of the other Bears don't learn to hun it's it's a learn Behavior you watch some of them are excellent fishermen and others flounder around trying to catch fish some of them learn how to hunt some of them learn they can catch pick moose Cals I watched one one moose drop a calf and two or three bears came by in the next three or four days while runy and tried to get in the cow would chase him off she'd just kick him to death we watched one big bear came around he got downwind and he just took off at a dead run he never stopped he went right through grabbed the calf and kept going without even breaking stride and the cow's looking around what what happened he had learned how to he wasn't going to stand there and get kicked but that that moose had run off all the other bears but that one knew how to do it huh what what about this idea that a bear is so strong and powerful could kill a bull moose with one swipe of his paw I wouldn't be surprised I've never seen it happen but I've I had a I flew one moose season I as I was going to town to pick up the clients there was a huge Bull on the hillside close to Camp I thought oh come look at him show him on the way back when I pick up the clients and it kept going couldn't see him I couldn't see him I looked and a big brown spot well it was a bear laying on top of that 70in bull moose um so they do learn how to kill moose I mean they get and a lot of times I've watched them run moose will swim out in the in a lake you know to try to get away from a bear well that's a bad mistake because a bear will climb right up on the drought might watched that oh sure oh yeah that makes sense so don't try to out swim a bear yeah what about wolves in your area do you see quite a few wolves or is it not a strong there's there's a there's at least one herd or one pack of wolves that's around there uh pretty much all the time and we they we see they they change their dinning sites occasionally sometimes they real close to camp and and uh but we see a few a few wolves join their HS but they're they're quite wary yeah yeah they've always been all the times I've been to Alaska I don't know that I've seen wolves more than twice and it's us usually the backside of them going away quickly yep it is um what are the uh moose populations like in your neck of the woods now it used to be a pretty pretty uh good trophy moose area it there is again it it's it when um when the Caribou died off slash moved out they did both I mean a lot of them died but the rest of them joined another herd so the population was down low um the moose population the wolves Bears started you know all they had was moose left so uh well it's not all I watched I watch wolves in our yard hunting mice just like Farley mauet said you know jumping up and pouncing just like a fox youve watched fox and coyotes do that I watch wolves do that in our yard they with High Vol population uh so wolves are very they'll they they can eat a lot of things uh they pray on beavers there's a lot of beaver population in Dallas so wolves will eat beavers they'll eat mice they'll eat whatever they can but when the Caribou left the moose population took a it suffered for a few years but it's it's I'd say back to full it's excellent whole Peninsula wise good good but the Carib are pretty much gone huh nope they're back fishing game gives out limited tags now they haven't given out a non-resident yet but um the the problem with Caribou they can they can boom really fast and then crash and the biologist starting to realize now that you we better start allowing some hunting earlier or when there's not quite as many and keep them down rather than let them boom and crash that's happening on the do think causes yeah what do what do you think causes the crash I've always figured it was probably overgrazing of those tundra plants the biologist that was there when we started pointed it out you can see the the light colored lyans that they eat in the winter time uh all between our place and we're about 80 mil from king salmon and you you don't see that anymore he said you don't see that that's their winter feed and their winter feed is gone and when that's gone they're going to be gone that's what I thought the first times I went up to Alaska in the uh late 70s early ' 80s I would see these incredibly they look like oh Coral sponges of this white pale lyen yes and then some of the locals said yeah that's what Caribou eat we call it Caribou Lan okay made sense and then noticed after years of the population for a while there what was it in the '90s when they just went like at Caribou everywhere especially up in Canada you could get like five on a license or something but you would fly over that country and it was like a cleard down there with Trails everywhere and then when we were on the ground I wasn't seeing these lyans anymore and I said I think they're just overgrazing it and then biologist you need to be a biolog well I talk to them they tell me they tell me everything and I spit back I you know a few yeah regurgitator but that's exactly I have to come up there and see you I'm going to have to come up there and see you sometime Phil uh I've been in that area fishing a few times and and uh tarmigan hunting and I took my first Carib must be quite a bit south of you you know where ugashik Narrows is that's ugashik Lake yes that's very close to ours actually is that close to you yeah yeah we're by the next Lake over Basher off right there beside it matter of fact our our guiding concession takes just a corner of ugashik Lake oh I'll be darned that's where I hunted my first Caribou right below the ugashik Lakes so you're in some some beautiful country down here I think I'm going to I'm going to start putting my spare pennies in a jar and then come up and see you sometime all right well put all that Fame to work and let it uh yeah you heard him everybody send your money in you got to send me up to Phil's place we need help here give a full report well when is when is your season this year you say it starts on May 10th so we'll be hunting on May 10th and so we've got to get it just goes for 11 days all the supplies yeah and then then you just fish for the rest of the summer yeah we'll have well we'll take off the the salmon don't really start running in Bristol Bay until about the 1 of July so we'll start by the end of June start fishing um and and news that so in between there we building projects and Hauling in supplies for the rest of the season and I mean everything's got to be flown you know we usually buy we do about a $10,000 Costco run and and a couple more then fly all the meat all everything out the the main supplies and fly them in the camp quite a business now I want to end up uh with getting your pick for the ideal handgun to carry along for protection if I were going to Alaska anybody is going up there and they're thinking I better have a handgun to protect myself from this slight chance of a bear attack what would you recommend they carry uh c um handgun and caliber cartridge and bullet and then if they're coming up for a bare hunt what would you recommend for a rifle and cartridge bullet well for a handgun well as we basically you know if they were listening to us earlier you can get by with a 9 mm uh with with some with good ammo or you could probably get by with a 38 special with a hard cast bullet um I know Joe Nava who worked for the NRA for years he he taught up in Fairbanks he always suggested a 357 revolver um the 357 revolver is what my whole family carries I mean my daughter-in-law my daughter my my son um and and may most of the time my 357 I went back to what I was using when I met F aard I've got my 44 Magnum but here again weight I me you asked any cop he's going to carry a big 41 or something is he going to carry 357 that's why they got popular they've got the same amount of penetration basically with the right bullet Choice uh don't get okay don't get these you know super duper expanding bullets that they know they want to you know here again we telling about there's you I guess courses for courses here you know policemen need are Hy different things than we are they want expanding bullets or self- protection you want expanding bullets on a big or bear um something that penetrates deep um and then now wheel wheel gun or autoloader we carry wheel guns um and it's more of a p that's a personal choice if you're comfortable with either one of them it work fine I I picked up a 10 mm um I've got a I've got a little 9mm um Sig that I like a lot it's nice and lightweight and um and the bullets you'd find my Smith and Wesson that I used um but there's nothing wrong with a good if you're handy with if you like a Glock or you like a 1911 or you like the the Springfield arms or whatever you like a gun that you're familiar with because if things happen they usually happen fast and you haven't got time to think you need to be proficient with what you're using and I that that same guy that's why I recommend ask a person why they use for hunting you like a 30 out 6 get some good bols and bring it out of bear hot if you want an excuse for you know tell your wife you need a good big gun then go get it but but you don't have to have it yeah I hear you what about barreling for 100 doesn't really matter that much or should they be thinking about a shorter barrel uh that I that that's that's what gun writers argue over uh no it doesn't not matter uh mine's mine's mine's 21 inches or so I mean in the brush but Hunters are not going to be if if and I just had a had a discussion with a bunch of the guys on the on the alas you know the board of you know profession hunters and we don't if if a hunter can't kill a bear um when they're set up and shoot it they're you they're probably if they're if they blow the shot you know if you get 50 75 100 yards whatever you shoot going in after a wounded one is not what they're likely most guys aren't going to I don't want a guy behind me that's scared to death with a gun so I'll do it myself and then maybe a shorter Barrel but if you're if if you got you know a barrel some with a 26 in Barrel you like it you shoot it well bring what you like it's going to be you're going to be telling stories and that's your favorite bear rifle so it now for a guide yeah sometimes a little bit shorter and lighters yeah maybe better do you see a lot of that 4570 lever action Marlin Guide Gun up there they're popular in the state I've never seen a hunter with one I mean I carry a I've got a brownie lever action to got one actually that's not true I keep want in Camp uh and by the doors a client left with us many years ago and and it's a it's a good gun there's no doubt about it uh and but it's more of a more of a short range gun than most Hunter most hunters pay in the kind of money they need for a big bear hunt usually want something if the bear is out there 150 yards or 200 yards that they might hit it rather than 4570 yeah but I well I took Doug Turnbull with his 47 five and Doug can shoot that thing at most any range so he did just fine he's kind of a special project well that is some fascinating in information um yeah I'm going to I'm going to save up all the dollars that people are going to send in after listening to this podcast because I know they want me to go up there and hunt with you because if I do that I'll be able to make a video on you and your operation and that'll really be popular F Phil I really appreciate all the the good advice it's pretty obvious that you know what you're talking about you didn't get old with a white beard by being stupid or by5 so oh that's right I forgot that part no thanks for visiting with us Phil and I am serious I'm going to twist BET's arm see if we can come love I mean there's yeah we'd love to come up we've been threatening to do it for years and I think it's about time we pulled it pulled the plug on that one so uh Warren uh Rocky that she's going to have to put up with this one of these days I'll do that I know see you but he'll be looking forward to it he'll be back to guiding us her her kids would be done nursing I think uh but she's she's coming out she comes out to Camp all the time but she killing her she can't can't go bear guide like I said she's 22 years being a bear guide she's uh she's chopping at the bit too and that's great all right well so much uh appreciate you being on with us Phil folks this is Phil Shoemaker we had on our show tonight and this is the real deal he's another one of these Master guides from Alaska who uh learns it the hard way and the right way and when he says A and C you better believe him because it's the School of Hard Knocks and he knows it pretty darn well thanks again Phil hey everyone we'll see you next time on Ron sper Outdoors podcast thanks for joining us on Honis and Shoot Straight [Music]

Channel: Ron Spomer Outdoors - Podcast

Views: 297,372

Keywords: podcast, hunting podcast, outdoor podcast, outdoor writer, ron spomer, ron spomer outdoors, rso podcast, ron spomer podcast, ron spomer outdoors podcast, master alaskan guide, alaskan guide, bear, bear advice, bear protection, best protection for bears

Id: UANI6U-SL4o

Length: 50min 34sec (3034 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 17 2024