Breaking Free: Drake Bell Talks Trauma and His Truth | The Man Enough Podcast

coming up on man enough my heart is racing I too had been molested for many years of my life I think that it's very important for people who have been through experiences like us to see like there's moments of Happiness Ahead making this documentary we were able to unseal letters of support have any of them apologized to you one of the reasons we started this podcast is because because we wanted to have very honest conversations I have to take accountability for for the choices that I've made and make amends as well where'd you go wrong some people have said oh it was a moment of weakness even in moments of weakness you need to be able to discern and recognize are people thinking that you are using your trauma and abuse to come back now that you've shared outside of your safe world to the world that will throw you away how do you feel now that you've let it out being man enough what does that mean it's really manly to mess up admit you wrong and then grow I couldn't accept that I was evil so maybe I'm broken but those broken things could be corrected intimacy between a father and a son is me just wanting to like put my head in your lap I love you son you haven't called me benevolent sexist but my experience is women are better even if it's a positive it's still not equality I don't blame men for that I just blame the system this is man enough hey everybody welcome back to the man enough podcast I'm Jamie Heath I'm Liz play hi Liz hi oh wait should we intro the show or should we think that we have a special guest excuse me Justin do you remember how remember how to bring us into the show why don't you try it my heart is beating so fast right now I'm like what am I like is this he became really good at it he kind of still your job yeah oh no it's true all the fan mail is all for Jamie right right same same with mine Justin bring us in tell us no I think you just did do you remember how to do it no hey what's up everybody Welcome Back To The Man podcast I'm Drake Bell I'm here with my good friends and we're we're about to get into I love oh man I've just been replaced again reped yet again oh it's good to it's good to be back and uh well now you know who's uh who's our guest today yeah we have a sweet wonderful special guest with us Drake Bell and of course we're really pleased and I think we're just jumping in but my heart is racing because we're going to have a conversation I hope that um illuminates a lot of what's hidden in our world and your bravery to talk about it and also all sides of life that maybe we can get into um so welcome to the show and thank you for yeah thank you guys for having me thank you thank you for coming in and with that Liz yes who's Drake Drake Bell is an American actor musician and voice actor best known for his role as Drake Parker in the hit Nickelodeon series Drake and Josh he started his career in the early 90s showcasing a wide range of talents from a really young age and Beyond television bill has established a successful music career as a guitarist singer songwriter you've released several amazing albums um and recently you were featured in the documentary series quiet on on set which has garnered 16 million views it explores a topic of really atrocious abusive behavior um allegedly occurring behind the scenes at aonian um and For the First Time Belle openly discussed the severe abuse that he suffered as a child actor he now lives in Mexico City uh we're all very jealous uh and you just released a hit new song called I kind of relate um that really shares this personal experience um as a survivor of sexual abuse so we have so much to talk about with you thank you so much for coming in uh with us this morning well why don't we start Justin what's our do you remember our first question that we asked our guests yeah Drake when was the last time you didn't feel enough what time is it great yeah that's a difficult question that's the first [Laughter] one all right um does it get easier from from here I think it's a moment by moment thing where sometimes you feel like you are doing as much as you can but it's difficult because we have so many things going on in our lives whether it's family or work or um just your your mind and personal thoughts so it's kind of a it's a hard question to answer because it's it's an it's a constant evolution of you know I I don't know really how to answer that have you ever felt enough is that why that's a hard you know a challenging question um and by the way everyone who comes on the show is like this morning or five minutes ago or sitting down that's a tough question very common yeah I mean I I think that's maybe maybe that's a a something we get out of being entertainers and getting you know getting those moments of you know like you're making a movie right now it's like you know maybe like when you finish that movie you feel accomplished you feel like a sense of accomplishment you feel like oh wow okay I put everything into this and there's you know we're going to there's something going to be released at the end of it and I'll be able to look back and go oh wow okay I but then once that time is over it's like okay well now what do I you know it's a that's a tough question to kind of process when you're when there's so much going on mentally uh and your thoughts are always racing to really like live in the moment and say okay right now where I'm at In This Moment is everyone healthy am I happy am I doing what I can to uh be the best that I can be and the best for others and then that moment passes and you're in another like what's going on you know can I ask you a different question then since that one hard what are you feeling right now a lot of anxiety uh it's a it's a really emotional time right now and I feel like it's it's it's an emotional roller coaster you know I mean like I said it's a moment it's moment you know Moment by moment and um there's like waves of anxiety and then waves of uh tranquility and like a weight's been lifted and then back to anxiety it's it's the roller coaster like literally right now right now yeah let's simplify let's just simplify everything um right now uh I I right now I feel my phone vibrating um no sorry I always I always have to go to like when things get a little like uh I always have to grab the low hanging fruit of a joke to kind of lighten the mood um but right now no right now I feel um like in this moment sitting at this table M uh little anxiety yeah uh yeah I mean I got I got three people that have uh probably a lot of questions in their yeah minds and can I how to yeah thank you though thank you for thank you for yeah I um can understand why you're feeling that mhm so for those who are listening let me just set if you don't mind let me set a stage a little bit because I think there's many that may not know you are right now um currently there is a show on Max called quiet on the set which is about um things that were happening on the Nickelodeon show behind the scenes um inappropriate behavior towards children and you are a big part of this story as Liz had mentioned in our opening um you have were molested raped abused by an adult for a good portion of your teenage life you acknowledge it then not at first you were trapped as you say but eventually acknowledge it to the point that that individual was then convicted your testimony your history had been corroborated and acknowledged that this in fact was true of course it was um now a lot has happened since then now for the first time because it was sealed and you were a minor it's becoming known that the person that was convicted was as a result of what happened to you yeah so you are in the line of fire right now yeah your every move and every day right now is fresh wounds and from what I understand as someone I won't get into my whole story on this but just so that people know that um I too had been molested for many years of my life and didn't really deal with it until I was an adult and when I finally dealt with it as an adult it broke me and I relived it and I felt anxiety and Afraid and how was I being viewed and will people believe me and was I being blamed for being uh a part of it um and then my behavior as a man how that shifted um so there's so much I imagine you're in so I'm understanding why you're yeah and I I there's other things that through the process of the documentary came to light which is a whole other bag to unpack and more to process that I was unaware of previously um for example I was going through Hollywood for so many years thinking um okay there's Bad actors well obviously there's Bad actors um but there's there's there's people at play in the industry that um are dangerous and you need to watch out for um but in my in my mind uh that exists everywhere I mean you could go to karate class it could be at a school it could be at any institution any job anywhere and so my feeling was that it was a there's isolated individuals um to watch out for um but through the process of of uh making this documentary we were able to unseal letters of support that my abuser uh received on his behalf and that were um turned over to the judge and that's that's new information for me people who I trusted I looked up to I were in positions of power over me directors producers writers actors some that I thought were friends some that I went on to work with later um for example on my series Drake and Josh who I went through life never knowing that they had penned these letters and reading the letters was I mean just completely ret traumatizing I mean seeing the names and what they wrote was just unbelievable I mean saying things like were aware of the charges um but we would be more than happy to recommend him for work and I'd be honored to work with him again people saying I that right now I would um I would hire him to work with children I that's how comfortable I feel with him um and a lot of people saying you know well I felt he he always made me feel comfortable never made me mhm feel in a certain way and like well yeah well you guys were a bunch of adults that were like in positions of power over him as well I mean it's not like he's going to take that risk I don't know have any of them apologize to you because these are some of these are public people there's been a couple of public statements um no one's reached out personally um but there's been a a few where nobody personally no that that wrote the letters no and so they made public statements but they didn't reach out to you personally yeah how did that feel I mean they kind of even though they they are apologies in a in a sense they they kind of mirror what was written in the letters um except saying things like oh had we known the details or we weren't aware of all of the facts or you know we were we were told it happened and that he was going to take responsibility for it but we didn't know the the extent or we didn't know the details and I'm like what did did you need to know if it was day or night did you need to know what color the couch was I mean what details would have changed your thought process in that at that time to write a letter in support of somebody who had admitted to what he did and even the fact in your letter you say I'm aware of the charges but m is how do you then put out an apology that says oh had we known when you literally say you knew I'm aware of the so the Betrayal feels it extends Beyond just the one that abused you but then feel betay that's what I'm saying yes and that's and that's all new to me so it's it's hard and and and there were some people that I saw in those letters that I expect Ed to have written letters um so they didn't come as a surprise to me but there were a few that I just I couldn't even believe it I couldn't it didn't it just didn't feel real that you thought that they had your back yeah and and yeah I I I thought that they had my back I thought they were friends there's people that I had worked with in the future and people who I saw not too long ago that I hey how's it going good to see you oh all right yeah miss you love to work again you know with you again and how's everything going you know just the way we you know I mean you know you're in LA and you know how it goes and you remin and everything's cool and um and then you get a stack of letters on your lap and your your just mind is completely blown and your whole reality just completely like just Chatters so I'd love to know we have this show which is called man enough um part of what Justin is really good at and what he wanted to do was have a a place that we can talk to men about our growth um our challenges our pain so we can heal so we can be better for oursel and then obviously ultimately better for Humanity um and only way to do that is to like really have real conversations not just surface conversations like one like we're having now with that can you share with us there are so many boys and girls but specifically about boys because you or yourself Were a Boy and there's a a different in my experience shame that comes with boys boys versus girls equally horrific but a different process for boys um when we are raped and molested so when you have now come out to talk about it what is it why now what's the purpose of you sharing it was it on the heels of Nickelodeon or or or this documentary happening and they reached out to you or were you already in the process why now in your 30s now is this coming up and what are you hoping um this does for you or heals for you well that's an interesting point I mean there does seem to be a stigma of people feeling that um there's a difference there but I I I think that you know we're all we're all human and everyone processes trauma and reactions to people sharing their trauma differently you know like like I was saying earlier you know I might crack jokes and I might make because that helps me not collapse you know and and um someone else might cry and someone else might get angry you know so we're all dealing with this but what we all share is [Music] um these traumatic experiences affect everything that we that we do in our lives it affects our families it affects fects the people around us it affects how we treat others it affects our choices moving forward in the future um if you don't mind me there's there's someone right now listening yeah a man your age around who's been abused who's not shared it ah who might now because you have been speaking about it and um so what was what got you to this point from compared to five years ago three years ago I well I had a son and I think that had a lot to do with it um my ex-wife unfortunately we we are separated but um I think she was a big Catalyst um she helped me through everything um when I was at my lowest um she really picked up all the pieces and made sure that uh I could continue working and and uh I mean she even moved into taking taking over all of the business aspects of everything I was doing making sure everything was handled I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't had um her support and her grace and her um strength that played a big role and I think I got to a breaking point I was going down a really bad path um with drugs alcohol the way that I was treating others taking every everything out on other people not being accountable for my actions blaming others and um I finally had nowhere else to turn and I checked myself into uh rehab and I felt I was going to rehab because okay I'm abusing my body and I'm putting I'm this is going to be a this is not going to be a good ending so I have to remove myself from my living situation I have to go somewhere different I have to I have to just I just wanted to go away but when I got into rehab it was a really intense facility um and I went through a lot of grief counseling and trauma therapy and group therapy and one-on-one I mean it was all day and I was unearthing all of these things that I never talked about not only never talked about with strangers but even with people I was close to had never gotten that deep about things that I've experienced and things that have happened and and things that have been a result of what has happened um and I was around so many people who for the first time had similar stories or had different kinds of trauma but incredible trauma in their lives and were opening up and sharing and and that was the first time that I really was felt like I was in a in in a an environment that was comfortable enough to share and felt comfortable enough around people that weren't going to judge and that really just wanted to see you get better and so I had been approached by the documentary prior to that and I just was not ready at all and I didn't know how I would ever tell my story if I did how because that was something in the back of my mind forever is am I going to tell my story um is this always going to be something that is just hidden in the darkness of my mind but I'm sure like what you just shared you know that when you do hold all of that inside it just it becomes this giant ball of just tar and sludge that just weighs you down and affects every aspect of your life I mean your relationships how you respond at work how you wake up in the morning how you how do you fall asleep at night how you navigate through the world is all dictated by what is going on inside of you that is just tearing you apart so I kept pushing the the documentary off and saying you know I don't know this isn't really I just can't I don't can't tell the whole world this but after being in rehab for quite some time I just started telling my story and feeling more comfortable and and and and with a clear mind and and and not clouded by substances or or or getting depressed and then going and drinking or um whatever I could get my hands on and and so for the first time really coming face to face with with everything throughout my life um so when I got out uh the conversations continued about uh involvement and in this piece and I just started to feel a little bit more light and um the weight was sort of lifting um but like I said it's a momentto moment thing because when I finally agreed to do the documentary um I sat down and I was oh this is the first time I'm going to tell this story I mean how am I going to say this in in a way that gets the message across and because I'm I'm sure like you you've experienced there's a lot that you kind of just black out that you don't remember and um not that you don't remember it but I think it's a defense mechanism correct where it's just not there until it's there again and when it's there again and it comes back it's like a movie it's like a movie you've seen a thousand times and you can recite every line of dialogue and you can you know exactly what the actors were wearing and what the scene setting was and what the and and you can you know recite every line and so even through the process of making the documentary I was thinking what am I doing you know I and then when I left I was like oh my what did I do I shouldn't have what can of worms did I just open what what's going to happen now what what are people going to how how is this going to affect me and then it was it's like the roller coaster it was a weight lifted it was like wow I that's not inside anymore it's it's out there people are going to do with my story what they will and things will get twisted and things will get misinterpreted but if there's people out there who like you were saying are listening to this podcast or watching that documentary that says wait a second it's also how you then move forward and and and and deal with things in a healthy safe way so that that can be motivating for others as well we all make mistakes in our life if we've dealt with Incredible trauma that may have led to other things that you regret or choices that you wish you could change but if you can recognize where that's what the nucleus is and where that's coming from and then be able to process it and and it's always going to be a struggle nothing's ever going to be easy but if you can at least process it in a healthy way and and get it out from inside then hopefully others can see that in you who have experienced the same things and say to themselves wait a second if I see this light in this person and this person's being able to move through this then I don't have to maybe I don't have to struggle and put myself through what I've been putting myself through until I'm old and gray and and my life has passed me by like you were just showing I don't know if you want me to share that but you were just showing me uh on your phone your uh your son caught a fish today oh it's going to make me cry um and it's that those moments have to be shown from someone whose experience what you shared with us earlier I think that it's very important for people who have been through experiences like us to see like there's moments of Happiness Ahead there's moments of Triumph ahead there's things to be there's things that you're going to be proud of uh ahead and it doesn't have to be what you're feeling right now in this moment so what you're feeling now don't lose that for a moment because I feel what's happening is you're coming into a space and um reasonably we have learned to posture our whole life and it's hard to take that Cape off and when it comes off it's important to leave it off for a moment so what I want to just respond a little bit and then if you would allow me um to help you with some of this I'm no expert but I've been dealing with it for a long time and I'm on a different I'm past the journey you are on right now because I'm a little few years removed from when I first really came out MH um again I'm so sorry this never should have happened to you to none of our kids you're at this weird age of a young teenager where you're young enough to not be in control at all and old enough to know that there's shame in this and there's consequences if I say something what will people think of me I won't be cool I'll be damaged all that when it happens at nine which I was also at that age too you may not be able to really understand the impact that by saying something is going to have effect on me so a lot of times nine and 10- yearolds may say something more than a 13y old or 14-y old would because you're like whoa this is going to affect my life and hurt my parents and hurt this and all all the stuff and you were in that age um it's terrible I'm so sorry but then you learned to conceal it you shared to put someone away then you obviously continued working continued living going down a path that didn't serve you well getting attached to substances and things of that nature which is a coping mechanism because it stays inside and then now you are I can see you when you talk that you're navigating what how do I frame this how do I say this what's going to affect me later I have another interview to do tomorrow or such I have my kid how's it going to affect him your parents but when I dealt with it it came back to service to me when the whole Michael Jackson stuff came out the reason is is because I started and my son was at the age that I was when this started with me and um and every time I watched or heard something I started screaming I needed people to hear me I was crying when I watched your episode I was on a plane on the way home from out of town and I'm under a blanket on the plane crying because not only I feeling for you I'm remembering mine mhm and it doesn't leave but it doesn't have to control me anymore and the way that it doesn't control me is to talk about it and to be free about talking about it to no longer navigate the words that I say for you to get to a point that you can say I was abused this is what happened to me happened for this period of time I still feel pain I'm still learning I [ __ ] up my body by self-medicating and so on and so on will you get to a place of confidently being able to say it without shame yeah because you're not the one to feel shame and and to own it instead of continuing being a victim in it yeah which is fair but we don't want to stay there um so I I want us to also move to like a second part of you as a man now and and some of the things that you had said about like learning and choices we make and things of that nature and I know that there's stuff out there about you um that may not reflect exactly who you are and what you've been dealing with maybe some of it does I don't know I'd love for you to speak about it a little bit so that we can have a conversation but before we get to that now that you've shared outside of your safe world to the world that will [ __ ] throw you away and other people will embrace you and you're like a play thing for people how do you feel now that you've let it out let this [ __ ] beast out of your body do you are you happy are you glad that you're doing this and this journey as hard as it will be are you feeling that you're finding healing to keep it honest um it's very scary but at the same time time it's very freeing and I think you put it in the you put it the right way when you say you know you're in the fire you're in the thick of it right now but even though there's so much happening and it is on such a public stage it's nothing compared to how I have felt in the past um and and and the more that I'm able to talk about it and the more that I'm able to uh articulate my thoughts just for myself in my own mind there is a big weight that feels has been lifted and is freeing um but not to say because I don't want someone to feel like oh well all I have to do is talk about it and then everything's okay and then I move on um because this is going to be something that we deal with for the rest of our lives and um it's going to be a a range of of emotions and and everything but I think that that was something also that motivated me to not just tell my story but to get into rehab was not just that I was self-medicating or what have you but was not recognizing myself and whether it was behaviors or actions that were just so out of character for not just who I want to be or who I want the world to see me as but who I know who I am and how I how I know myself was getting really scary and I think that that was another motivation of okay I I can either go down this path and and that be the end of my story um and that's what gets to be left behind for my son that gets to be left behind for my family or I can [Music] um and just use a boxing metaphor is just to not stay down and to to get back up and and and and and fight for what uh is important to you in your life to fight for your family to fight for your relationships to fight for yourself um yeah and to finally be at peace where you do start recognizing yourself again and you do start moving forward and making the right choices and you do start making amends and mending relationships and um and learning from all of these actions that you've taken tell us five things three things that you think as a result I don't want to excuse it um the way that you were built and had to go through life and become the the man that you became maybe three things looking back that you go I could have done this better and for instance I could have not cheated on every one of my wives I could have not slept with some of the wives of my closest people in my life because the boundaries for me I could have not done that should have not I didn't see it clear at the time there's a host of other things as well can you name him that quickly there's three things I could have I I've I could have been better in all of my romantic relationships for sure um I could have been I could have been much better um in my marriage and um how more honest more faithful more uh Stronger uh more aware more um what's the word I'm looking for uh when you give and take a compromising reciprocal reciprocal that's the word I'm looking for thank you yeah I could have been more reciprocal what are some things that you have done that you wish that you didn't um or that you've learned from that you would no longer do a big one is uh how I've taken my pain and and I don't want to blame it on that because I uh for you I obviously made the choice and and nobody grabbed my hand and forced me to do these things these were choices that I made I think the hardest part is realizing the hurt that I've caused along the way um whether it's in friendships or romantic relationships or with my parents with my family there was a lot of and I don't know if this is something maybe I mean there's cameras on us I want to talk to you like we're not on camera right now but and maybe this is something that you felt too and I I think it's it's when somebody who is not your mom or your dad and and and you go through moments where that exists with them as well but when someone tells you that they love you and that their love is unconditional and that they love you completely um it's very hard [Music] to believe it it's hard to accept it it's hard to not have defenses up and and then you end up making choices that I I and this is kind of the this is like therapy this is the first time I've thought about this but that maybe you you start to make choices so that if that love that's isn't complete and absolute it's not going to hurt as much when it's gone and really what you should be doing is cherishing that and respecting that and and and nurturing that but I think that there's because of I mean and I keep saying because of but I think as not as a result I don't want to blame it all um I appreciate you keep doing that see what I'm trying to say yeah of course you are wanting to make I'm really proud of you for doing this you're not saying I'm this because of this and at the same time we are who we are because of what we experience as well right so you're not wanting to excuse it yeah you are a man that gets to make choices and make right choices but we make better choices when we're informed from childhood of what those right choices are and not blurred and and and some of that has been blurred for you yeah so you're trying to explain it so I I appreciate that but let's not don't get too caught up in that so that you can I think there's a lot of when we've been through what we've been through is trust is such a difficult because when you're when you're young I mean I see it in my son and it's like trust is one of the first things that you learn I mean you you trust that your parents are going to feed you you trust that your parents are going to change your diaper you trust that protect you they're going to protect you they you you it's immediate you you know you trust the second that you are born you trust that your mom is going to hold you and you're this is a a safe place on her chest the day you were born and when someone takes advantage of that type of trust at early stages in your life your defenses just go up and you you no longer it it makes it really difficult to trust anybody it makes someone not can can I just please keep going can I just offer one thing yeah can you instead of saying you say I having done years and years of therapy myself and I just want to for that there's a lot of use and we're here to hear about you and I just want nothing changes but just if you can just keep that in the back yeah I uh I think when I you know through what I've experienced and when I've had an experience of where trust has been taken advantage of for at at at such formative times and my life um it makes it really hard for me to trust people um when they're trying to do what in the you know when they're when they have my best interest at heart or it makes me hard it makes it uh very difficult to trust When someone tells me they they love me and um it causes me to do things that I feel are so out of character for myself but maybe are maybe I'm putting up a wall or a defense mechanis M so that when that trust gets broken like I've experienced it doesn't it it hurts a little less and and it never yeah it's self- sabotage yeah and it never does hurt less but in those moments you're thinking oh if that happens it's inevitable I yeah because it I mean that you really do feel like it's inevitable you know and I've had to deal with this a lot I'm a I catastrophize I I I hyperfocus I'm I'm I always think I I can never focus on well if this goes right this will be great it's always okay well when this goes wrong put myself in that place so I so that I'm prepared to deal with it when this happens because you always have that feeling of like you said and it's it's inevitable yeah because that's just how I um I was going to say you again how do you see the difference though yeah oh yeah CU yeah even hearing you talk about it just in the last little bit I just noticed myself go yeah because we don't realize that even as we talk about these things and we say you it's it's still it's self-preservation and it's a way to distance myself in this case from past behavior for you yeah and it's hard to say I yeah than it is to say you right because we're in this position we're on this podcast you're a celebrity you've you've had influence and the eye is where the healing is yeah in this situation and not just for you but for people that are listening you know you you're you're sitting with two people who've also in a very different way been been victims of a different kind of abuse in relationships right Liz and I over here on this side um in both of us very different situations and yet the eye part is healing yeah right the eye part is when I go I can trust this guy yeah because you're opening yourself up which is the hardest thing yeah so I just offer that just as you're thinking about this stuff in the future and as you're on this tour and you're going to be inevitably talking to the world um and we're in a very confusing time yeah you know and one of the reasons we started this podcast is because we want to have very honest conversations vulnerable conversations real conversations and learn in real time we've from the very beginning been like I am not perfect I'm far from perfect if you think I'm perfect that is your projection on me yeah right and yet um the internet has context collapse we we we read bite-sized headlines we think whatever we want you see posts about a certain person you think that they're perfect and then boom you find one thing about them that was bad and suddenly they're all bad yeah right it's binary it's black and white in the world and we are not black and white we are complex individuals that all of us have trauma all of us have that trauma living in our bodies it comes out in ways that we don't want when you talked about that black tar and the point of all of this is to say there's accountability that needs to happen maybe publicly maybe privately and the eye the eye is the secret yeah cuz the eye is what maybe the victims someone like Liz would need to hear from you in order to have her nervous system relax around you right and then accept the fact and empathize with the fact that like oh you've been abused the worst things in the world have happened to you doesn't excuse it doesn't excuse whatever the three and five things you talked about but at least then I can go oh I'm so sorry I understand you as a human I'm not that different yeah does that make sense makes total sense yeah thank you for thank you for indulging and and and you know know I mean I mean it's a it's it's a it's a very very strong difference feeling when you know and and you put it in a good way is we're on a public stage where and I've been doing this for so many years and um you you know we're media trained and we're in we have this thing so it's it is difficult sometimes to reflect on yourself without trying to like you were saying you know put it in a way okay wait how is this going to be picked up tomorrow and how is this going to be twisted and really just focusing on who am I and what have I experienced and how am I going to navigate through this and what are the mistakes that I have made is much heavier and healing than you know you go through these things and you know you people people experience this and they might they might react this way or they might react this way cuz what I what I don't want as a brother right as a fellow man is what I don't want are people thinking that you are using your trauma and abuse to come back yeah right yeah cuz I don't think you are and that's why I'm asking you to go deeper yeah because people can tell when someone's media trained MH we are we are used to the half-ass apologies yeah we are used to the people coming on and saying like you know I did this and they put the statement up on their Instagram or whatever it is or they read the thing and people can feel it yeah and even though everyone is in their own pain and I have a belie that people like people when they're in pain want to see others in pain of course which is I think what happens with the pylon system on social media and like boom boom because you know there's a lot of people who have been abused or have been victims who've had no power yeah and it's the only place that they have power I'm not excusing it it's still wrong because all of us are human beings but it's very hard to do that when someone can feel another person's soul because as you said we're all humans yeah it's very hard to punish somebody when they've had remorse for their actions and they say I because we can meet each other there yeah our hearts our souls can meet each other there it can transcend everything yeah this is the path I believe to forgiveness and Redemption this is what's missing in the world in Hollywood in social media in the news there's a path but it starts with sincerity yeah and accountability and I believe you have a chance for that and that's why I just wanted not to help in some way because this is so fresh but to offer like as you're on this path like own it don't don't not sorry but don't I think we need to stop listening to the publicists and then we stop listening to everybody who has a paycheck tied to us yeah and then say how would I what would I do if there were no cameras what if there was no social media if I hurt you how do I own that I think the world will I think that's how we change things and you're in a really unique position so that's why I was excited when you came on the show um I want to ask a couple things but Liz I know you have been so wonderfully gracious um and um having a presence in your energy and your spirit and leaving space for mainly dring myself to share and thanks Justin do you have anything you want to share before I yeah I I mean i' I've been listening um and appreciating this conversation so much I I I truly like before we you know uh came into on set I was like I I think you will get a lot out of like I I think this should have happened whether there's cameras or not um I I I was thinking that when he was talking I was going th and and we spoke a little bit off camera um but yeah this is definitely something I I felt that exactly yeah and as a you know as a woman to to mirror what you're or plus one it you know I think that as a woman I feel safe when men are acknowledging their mistakes not when they're minimizing them or erasing them and sometimes the Eraser of the abuse can be worse than the abuse itself right the gaslighting the uh and in your case you experienced it firsthand with these letters or with people being silent around this U which I I definitely am curious how that's felt um some people have talked about you know these videos resurfacing of Ariana Grande and her still following Dan Schneider on Instagram you know what does that sort of do to see people who are powerful or who have influence sort of still remaining silent around that um but I also think that you you are like your story is so unique but it's also I think something that an an experience that a lot of men can relate to where you were victim and you were perpetrator I mean we all under patriarchy that's pretty much the deal for men right you're hurt by patriarchy you're hurt by men who exploit your weaknesses or your vulnerability then you're taught to not have any vulnerability and so then you end up taking it out in your romantic relationships on you know you didn't say you took it out on women but if it's your marriage your romantic relationships I mean it's you know it looks like the women in your life really um you know were very supportive and and helpful I I loved how you um talked about your your your ex I think it's always says a lot about a man the way that he talks about you know a woman that he's no longer with um but it yeah you you you also and there's this you know case of child endangerment which is mentioned in the documentary but there's not a lot about it um so yeah I would love to know do you feel that dichotomy you know of being victim and and perpetrator is that hard to even sort of um fathom and then how do you um approach that you know as as a man in our society yeah I think that that's comes back [Music] to seeing seeing myself act in certain ways and and make choices that [Music] um I feel are so out of character for myself and not who I want to be and not who I want to be in the future or um but I think that like you were saying is is is you you you can't minimize um who you've hurt and and the actions you've taken you really you wow I'm going to catch that all the time now wow that's heavy change that's really heavy I um I have to take accountability for for the choices that I've made and and and and and make amends as well I mean you I sorry I'm laughing but that's you got me on that you in the eye man wow but you know why I'm on the same Journey yeah yeah it's that's it's really heavy because it really makes me uh really reflect on on who I am and what I've been through and what I've put others through I I just know that when I make those choices that's not who I am and I want to find out and like you said it's a journey I want to find out what it is and how I can change or learn from what it is that would cause me to make decisions or treat people a certain way so Drake can you do something for us yeah I feel like you want to go there so I'm G to help you like Justin asked you to say I and I'm glad it resonated I'm a big proponent of I it's been part of my healing um and reasonably and I won't push you beyond where you tell me to stop to close one chapter and we'll come back to it but um what's happened to you as a child is undisputably wrong and needs no explanation and to your Point Justin that people will in fact think or not people some people might think is he using this to come back as a platform um [ __ ] them I appreciate the question anyone who thinks that someone who's been abused uses it to their benefit to become to make some money uh [ __ ] you no one experiences what I've experienced or you or any of us and then someone else gets to tell me that when I talk about it I'm using it to benefit my life [ __ ] off [ __ ] you whoever says that to him yeah [ __ ] you it's reasonable that you would bring it up because I love that you did because there are people that will say that and I've seen some people say that about you [ __ ] them a child is raped and they have the courage to say something about it regardless of what their agenda is let them talk about it and and and expose it so we can stop it and if they also reclaim their life and our seen then so be it so I hope you are able to reclaim your life and um not that it's not reclaimed and if um you grow more Wings because you have expressed it great and anyone who says otherwise [ __ ] them sorry for the language over and over okay now you're a man with your history and you're making reference to some of the the things that you could have done better but you're very vague I could have been better in my relationships here's how I but I can name them I was not faithful to anybody my boundaries with sex and relationships were off and caused harm and pain to not off like I was abusive but emotionally not okay to uh have someone feel like they were used or the men that I hurt because the women in their life I mean but I can name it so that I can own it so that someone else may also say like I'm I'm owning it what are you comfortable with sharing so that I can lead to this next one you you and I are we we share a lot um I I absolutely could have been more faithful in relationships um okay so that's one faithful how else something else besides faithfulness I mean I I I hate to to just repeat what you just said um but it resonates with me so much and is so much a part of my story um I think that um that lines being blurred uh is is a really big one for me and and not realizing in that they were blurred that that they were blurred and and and not realizing the impact that those actions would have on other people at the time okay so then let me bring it to this now and forgive me for doing so but there are people that know what's out in the world in the news and I don't want us to just dismiss them you you were convicted of child endangerment it's a broad thing that a lot of people don't know what that could mean what that includes from what I understand this is you as a man now um were engaged in what some sort of um Instagram conversation with somebody or what what what that mean conversations over Instagram yeah okay with someone that was underage yes did you know they were underage no okay um but she claims that you did yes okay well she claims a lot of things okay and so then you I'm sorry to bring this up but um it's here yeah um and you're dealing with it yeah I don't want to dispute and highlight all of it mhm because I don't know what's true honestly I know I lied a lot took me a long time to finally say like um actually what I was saying five years ago was not exactly true right because of fear and because of whatever else so no offense to you you could be telling not the whole truth or you might be as far as I'm concerned so I don't know so this is why we have conversations so we can help that so but what your story is is that you didn't know okay when you found out that she was underage then you blocked her yes okay is there any accountability in that absolutely okay what irresponsibility I could have I I help all of us watch I think I think I think I was engaging in behaviors that shouldn't have that I shouldn't have engaged in I think that I was not um is this where your boundaries are blurred yeah I think that I was it that you kind of knew that maybe she's younger maybe she's not but you just kind of turned a blind eye no I think that it was conversations that shouldn't have happened at all I mean you mean regardless of age I I think so but if they were 20 years old and you were 25 years old then you can have whatever conversations you're with and nobody cares right it's just like sexual or or I still think that I I still think that I should take responsibility for um I mean this is just somebody that was a fan online or taking and maybe that's another way to look at it you know is was I did I feel like I was in a position where I this person was a fan of mine or something using your power over over uh a woman yeah and and a girl yeah and maybe not realizing that at the time but I think in hindsight maybe that played give me concrete this is what I'm asking yes what's going to happen if we end our conversation right now there's going to be people listen and be like oh he was so open about and talked about what happened to him as a child once we got to this stuff I don't really know what to do with it Liz who's the most sweetest forgiving compassionate and loves men and is forgiving to what we do but also holds us accountable in the ways that we can be better yeah I don't want her to walk away from this with all the compassion she will for you but also be like I'm unclear about this yeah help give Clarity because the rest of the world is also that eyes who are watching you over the next month two three four months talking about this horrific stuff that happened in your childhood but you are also being pointed at in another way yeah so the more you are with it doesn't think that's a I think that that's what's Difficult about is being painted in a way where and I think that's why I I get hung up on my words and I get and because for the past two years I've been called something that I'm that I'm not and something that was perpetrated upon me an abuser a pedophile yes okay so I've been being called that for the past two years and because of the situation situation and it's really difficult because where yes I I engaged in conversations I shouldn't have engaged in but it's very it's a it's a it's a very hard parallel okay so then let's help clean it up you get an Instagram following from somebody MH they messaged you or you messaged them they messaged me okay they messaged you with a normal hello like nor people yeah then you respond with like we all do you look at their profile see she's cute she's such and such she looks like a woman what did or did she look like a kid no no no uh she on the Instagram page of she was smoking she had was drinking with friends there were some sexual conversations where there pictures no okay I want to hear the story in your own words okay so I engaged in uh conversations with someone online they were presenting them themselveses as someone who I would be able to engage with and um later on in the messages it [Music] the I started to feel uncomfortable and uneasy and so I I kept asking and then I I finally was like something doesn't seem right here how how old are you and then she had told me and that's when when I I stopped communication and said we couldn't talk anymore and a lot of the things that were said in in in the statement later uh at my sentencing were new things that that were never brought up in in in uh originally and I don't know why I had a a phone call with my my attorney at one point and I was just I was going through an exhaustive investigation I was trying to just stay upright I it was just grueling and having my phones taken from me and computers and they're subpoena my social media messages and reading everything that I've ever sent to anyone and I got a phone call after a lot of the witnesses have been interviewed and I broke down I I broke down and I because I felt so I mean I felt like I wasn't even being believed by my attorneys at certain points and when the witness reports came to light it was the most I mean I literally was in my driveway of my house and I just fell and I just started crying and I was like finally so you basically were convicted of sexting with a minor before you knew she was a minor yeah because that's still illegal yes where'd you go wrong let's go let's go to that yeah I mean that takes me back to engaging in behaviors that shouldn't have happened at all and um can you be clear about that engaging in behaviors that shouldn't have been wrong at all in terms of I shouldn't have been I shouldn't have been engaging in a conversation of that that nature of that nature with anyone that I wasn't 100% sure who they were that they wanted to engage in conversations like that that they uh were just that I knew them that I had a personal relationship with that I had more than just an online experience with all of the above I just I I I I think it was a really poor lapse in judgment and and I hate to use some people have said oh was you know a moment of weakness it was because it's it's no I mean it was even in moments of weakness you need to be able to discern and and recognize like you can't just blame a moment of weakness of why you got in your car when you were drunk and you crashed into somebody and hurt them oh it was just a moment of weakness I was really sad that day or I was really upset you know something had happened in my life and that's what CA so even though we have had these traumas and we've had things that we've experienced I hate to say oh that's why because that's not going to help that's not going to help me move forward and change my behavior that's not going to help me recognize uh when I feel like making a decision that might harm someone else or harm myself um that I can just feel like oh I can just fall back on it was a moment of weakness or I can fall back on oh well I've been hurt so I [Music] can that means you own that you should have never been texting her in the first place 100% And that there was a power Dynamic maybe 100% And what you're saying by laps of judgment isn't I guess what I'm trying to make a distinction which I hear you saying but for clarity this was not a blurred line for you in terms of had you known from the jump that this person was underage would you have still been tempted to text no okay so that means what you're acknowledging is you shouldn't have been in this position you should have had better discernment better thoroughness um if there was a spidey sense on you was like I should check you should have done all that before continuing on but not because you were interested in someone that was of this age group no it has nothing to do with that so that wasn't the laps of judgment no that wasn't the laps of judgment the laps of judgment is engaging in any type of conversation like that with anybody that you are not in a relationship with that you are connected to that you huh oh that I'm that I'm in a relationship with that I'm connected to that I that I share all of that with already in a in on a personal level um okay that that is absolutely the the mistake look I think we can call a SP a spade one of the byproducts of trauma that you've experienced and again not an excuse yeah is boundary yeah there's boundary issues and even the data is the data 30% of all men who have been abused become abusers so but that's like to the extreme yeah right and when you've had your power taken away in the way that you have the way that Jamie has the data also shows that one of the ways that that victims of that type of abuse and Trauma get their power back is sexually yeah so I imagine you engaging in that behavior had to do with you wanting to feel powerful which stems back to what Liz was saying which is when you had your power taken from you when you live in this Society you want to gain your power back and you were in a position of celebrity and there's maybe a an attractive person and boom I don't know how many times that happened I think there's something too uh when it comes to um like bringing it back to what you were saying is there's also a feeling of maybe gaining my my my not just not a not power but my my sense of manhood back about that because I was victimized in a way and and and and hurt by an older man that I and I had no interest in being a part of that situation that I think that there's something that I've taken with me where I feel like maybe I won't be desired by who I want to be desired by because this older man has done this to me and it's taken that part of me away that might be attractive to who I would like to be with and and I think that a lot of those Blurred Lines come from grasping on to any part of oh I there's something in me that's desirable desirable well it's a way to reir your masculinity in a way right because was taken away from you yeah right yeah and we live in a homophobic Society we live in a society where you know uh yeah being being gay or participating in anything that is remotely Associated to that means that you're not a real man and so in a way you feel like you've been compensating you know sometimes I think that's a good way to put it and and and that's what it is is is feeling oh there's something something inside of me something that I'm conveying that is attractive and that's something that I thought has been stolen from me um and so I think that that it's like a drug it's and and it becomes a oh I have to I have to oh I have to I have to grab on to that whenever I feel that oh I have to grab on to that okay this person it likes me oh okay like and that's got to be a hard position for a young man to be in with so many fans that are also young and yeah young and old but like because you want to be desired and suddenly all these thousands of girls and women want to desire you I mean that's got to be really tricky MH it's a very unique set of circumstances for somebody I think but I think that there's also a a difference between the feeling of because because when you go out on stage when I go out on stage um and you know I I just played a a concert not a couple nights ago and there's 50,000 screaming people and you're feeling desired and or that are showing you love and showing you this but as soon as you walk off the stage you're back into that I'm alone I'm you know I am I am I really receiving the the the one-on-one connection that I'm that feel that I've lost or that I don't have the ability to attain um because I think a lot of people would think oh well you go out on stage and there's all these people screaming for you like well there's your there's there's the feeling you've been looking for it's right there like it doesn't sink in it doesn't give you what it doesn't give you what you feel has been it can't taken from you it can't because you don't feel like you're enough yeah so nothing will ever feel that and I speak from experience I think one of the ways that you get there is what you're doing now you're talking about it putting less restrictions and handcuffs on yourself to not only talk about what happened to you as a kid but what you um how that affected you as an adult and the choices you make and to be able to talk about it uh more freely loose some of those chains you know that just and um learning new language will be a part of your own healing yeah will be a part of those who listen to you their healing will be a part of what people are saying about you from these accusations and some that you're acknowledging that you played a part in and some that are like absolutely not that wasn't mine where I was yeah and people are trying to figure out where they land with that yeah part of what they'll will help them land somewhere is how you articulate it your comfort in it um your accountability as you're demonstrating but also your your command of the language of words yeah and you only get that from talking about it totally to actually take this even one step further so you know the name the name of of your accuser has been leaked on Tik Tok and people are some of your fans are going after her um what would be your message to your fans I would just want to say to absolutely 100% stop um do not go on the attack that is not the best way if you're feeling that that's a way to defend me or to be in my corner that is not the correct way to to to go about that um if you want to be in my corner and you want to feel that you're supporting supporting me and you you're you're angry over this situation um then show it through love and compassion you know maybe going and supporting other survivors instead of um attacking uh attacking people um and uh to um that's going to be a much healthier way to feel that you are defending and supporting somebody than going and and and trying to cause pain and hurt to someone else um is is just not that's just not right why are you emotional right now what's what's What's um coming up for you because I've I've I've felt so much pain and and and and I feel like a lot of pain has been inflicted on me um especially from the abuse that I've endured that I it it breaks my heart and it's a physical reaction when I feel that um when I feel that others could have um could be feeling that same pain or feeling those same emotions and because someone's inflicting words or actions upon them um I don't that just doesn't sit well with me I don't I it brings up all of my pain and then I feel that I I don't want anyone to feel that um and so it's it's really hard and you saying what you said is going to help not just this person but many other people you know stop that cycle yeah yeah are you um I think you probably got a long road ahead of you um there's no quick out right there's um doing the work um being accountable every single moment no matter what's happened to you being accountable not to what happened to you as a kid I think you hold no accountability to that zero um that's something that's a learning that's a 1,000% I'm going to keep telling you that as long as we're connected I blamed myself for years and years it's a long time to get through that that that thinking that you had a part of it yeah that you somehow are responsible that did I or that you deserved it well deserved it 1000 and also just like because there's this weird thing that sex feels good being touched not being raped but there's this weird thing at a certain age it's like whoa what the [ __ ] do I do with this like this is the worst thing happening for me to me and yet it's playing with the feeling that also is a sensation of Jo Joy or good feelings and then that's there's all this [ __ ] that happens so there's blaming and F self and what people have a hard time understanding from my understanding of it yeah is that just because of terrible things is happening to you it doesn't mean that your body is not responding favorably your body can respond sexually to something even though it's being attacked that's a very hard thing for people to really understand when it comes to sexual abuse and assault it's like if it was happening to you then why did you have an erection or something yeah and this is another part of victim blaming and victim shaming that I just needs to stop yeah and then so yeah so there's that so I'm imagine that this road for you because it's fresh and now you're in the line of fire at the moment and hopefully Less in the line of fire and also in the line of um um causing some healing for people both because of you're talking about your childhood and also talking about your adulthood and how you can be better will be healing but it's going to be a journey right and the more that you do what you're doing brother um I think that we can not let horrible things be completely in vain not that you're a martyr not that you're like something but that it doesn't have to be in vain so that if in fact there are more and more that are healed and it stops Cycles because of you being willing to walk through the fire um then at least there's something that can come from that yeah and I think that's something that has taken a long time to learn is that um what happened to me doesn't have to Define who I am moving forward it doesn't have to destroy me because those are what you think that that's what you live with for your whole life is this is absolutely destroyed me this is who I am now and and what am I and what are you GNA do with it what am I going to do with it and you said something earlier too that I just wanted to address and then and then I'll be done at least because not done but yeah I think I would have exhausted my voice you know that you talked about this um well we talked about these Blurred Lines what happens when I was a kid I was the three different people that abused me all loved me mhm or so you know showed me love yeah and also there's betrayal happening and when I finally got to an age older I was with the therapist and she said to me CU I had been every relationship that I loved there was betrayal like tangible betrayal and yet I loved him yeah I could like what's wrong with me like why how am I this broken that I keep hurting people that I love I was talking to this therapist and she's like go through your history here so you when you were this age with this person who loved you on one hand and was betraying you and this person loved you on one hand so you thought you have been wired to think that love and betrayal coexist that they go hand in hand that's a heavy concept so is it any wonder that as an adult you're experiencing love and you can betray them and you and that is that line is like really blurred for you you experienced a whole life these people told you they loved you they took care of you they fed you and dressed you and abused you yeah um and so on as they got older um so I wonder if that for you can resonate and recognizing that I need to unblur those lines that love and betrayal don't actually coexist yeah I know that resonates big time I mean they do we make them coexist but they they are they should not be just like um and maybe that what prevents us and I have to think about this honestly all of the time still it's it's wired in me at any given day I can betray my wife so I remind myself that that's wired and I don't want to fall victim to what I've been in the past yeah I want you to so you have to constantly daily just remember like even though I'm wired I have to make sure I have to like constantly keep these two walls apart yeah I'm a a appreciate you so much all three of you um in this conversation so much I I feel like I'm part of like I'm in a Vortex of uh compassion and vulnerability and accountability and just um and I know this is really hard and you're being really Brave thank you so thank you um what struck me honestly watching the documentary and what angered me was silence like I I just was like silence is so loud and was so loud back then and uh when all of this was was happening but it also feels loud now and again not to harp on it but just how are you just with the you know people not reaching out to you and and and apologizing to you or apologizing publicly but not privately well to react to that I I I I don't and that's another thing that is happening online I'm seeing a lot of well why aren't you speak out you need to say something you need to and and that is absolutely the wrong approach people into talking you can't shame people into talking everyone is going through everyone experiences these these things differently and maybe some people didn't have bad experiences with somebody that you had a bad experience with so it might take them a little more time to go wait a second and and and it's different in my case where this person is pleading guilty to these uh uh um crimes and you're saying I'm aware of that but he's a great guy that's not being silent that's not taking your time to soak everything in look at everything how is this affecting me and my relationship with this person what I thought this person was like that's saying yeah I know but it's fine CU he's a really great guy like to me right you know and so that's if there were people doing that then I could understand people going hey hold on but to try and shame people because they haven't said something yet or they're that's not them being complicit in in any of this that's them processing this really heavy right information right um and and that's important what you just said there yeah I love that you can recognize it's really important yeah I yeah I I think you're 100% right I think from an outsider perspective I'm like if I worked with someone and like 1% of what happened to you happened to them while we were in the same workplace I I would have you know I just think it it it just surprises me um but but I'm with you on I mean I I The Compassion there's a lot of processing and reflecting that has to go on privately I think so I think that yeah I would just give more time give more time expecting people to you know instantaneously exact and you're right it's it's a lot you know to process we're not uh in general I don't think people are processing much we just react go to social media react it's fair um all right I got I got a couple questions and then I think it's we're gonna W we're going to end this so the first question I want to know and I'm sure listeners would want to know is okay this just happened you're processing all of this in real time you're learning in real time even as you have the last couple hours right you haven't arrived yet when you sat down this is one of the problems one of the things I've had to deal with my whole life I literally could feel I had your anxiety in me I just want oh something that I I I walk with this every day and I I'm uh um so I feel you what are you doing right now tomorrow the next day what are you doing to heal to take care of yourself and to make sure that um some of the ways that you've acted out in the past never happens again how what are you doing to create a safe space and make yourself a safe place so that everyone in your life can then feel safe well a lot of therapy um what's that look like what do you mean majority of men have no idea what they've never been to a therapist so so I'm just like what does that look like oh it's so there there was there there there's been points where I'm going three days a week There's points where I'm going once a week There's but um it's something that has to continue um it's not something where you go for a certain amount of time it's like going to the doctor and it's like okay well once you're done with this medication you're healed and you don't have to worry about it anymore um so it's a constant thing and it's it's unwrapping and going really deep into things that um happened even prior to my abuse that I didn't realize had profound effects on me my my parents divorce my that that also had a profound effect on how I evolved in relationships growing up so you're going to you're doing a lot of therapy especially right now because things are it's raw yeah because it's raw keeping people close to you keeping a very small group of people close to you who close to me close to me that I trust will build me up in moments that I'm doing well but that also will I mean this has happened recently um you know that'll that'll grab that'll grab me and say hey hey hey I'm scared for you right now your your behavior you seem like you might fall so I don't like seeing this I'm gon to tell you the truth and I'm going to you know come to your house right now and I'm going to sit down with you and we're going to and and we're going to go through this accountability Partners account yeah exactly like people who because growing up and especially in this industry you and it's very hard when we've been through what we've been through to be alone and to be okay with being alone and so you your with so many people all the time you just it's like it's a comfort mechanism it's like okay there's a t of people around okay I'm good I'm good and then you start attract you know there's people that yes people are just along for the ride they just want Tock out yeah and and that'll just that's inevitably a bad place to be but when you have your when I have my my uh my group of friends or my family smaller and will hold me accountable and will and and have no problem telling me I'm stumbling um but in a way that is with love and is with Grace and is with understanding you have a tendency to not be like you don't know what you're talking about get away like I'm fine you know it's it's you you can accept it more and and you have to trust that these people have your best interest and also have no alterior motives or anything but to see you healthy and happy and so that's a very important important one because it took a long long time for me to one trust people in an intimate way where I can be actually open and they can be honest with me and it's also uh been a long it's long journey of being okay just being alone and not having my thoughts racing and my emotions filling up and and and and feeling like I need to be distracted like just being okay being at home cooking dinner I I I do Legos a lot I've I've discovered that like Legos really maybe because I'm so hyperfocused and but I I'm but there's Point there's in my past I could never imagine just being at home building a Lego set by myself I mean I would be I would lose my I would just be so what's going on oh and this and the and um it really takes my mind and just lets me focus and do things that you know I don't have I it's taken a long time for me to just be able to be at home listening to music watching a TV show and not and being able to focus on the plot you know is to me that makes a lot of sense even therapeutically MH because from watching the documentary and learning about you you never had the chance to play with Legos yeah you you were a young boy in an industry of adults you grew up on sets with cameramen and directors and auditioning all the time seems like you never got a chance to play with the Legos and now in some ways you're getting that chance at this age you're reparenting yourself and I would encourage as a brother to keep when those things come up it's like why don't I want to do Legos just do it yeah because the little Drake in there is just screaming to be loved and to feel protected and you're the only one that can do that for him so I love that you're playing with Legos I'm building Legos I'm not playing I I don't I don't really play with them very much uh I more so build them I want to also say that uh this conversation is why we started the podcast yeah um to learn how to stay in the room and you stayed in the room mhm I believe it's one of the hardest things to do to to sit there to listen to take it to not get defensive when I said I or we and to be open enough to like choose to learn and not to just put up your Shields because you could have yeah and this would have been a very different conversation and we didn't know what we were going to get from Drake like we were like we don't know what's going to happen and we know that we have to address some of these uncomfortable things yeah and I just want to say I'm really grateful for the example um that you've given today because it couldn't have been easy I promise you you're going to have a vulnerability hangover oh yeah you're going to leave here and you're going to wonder did I [ __ ] it up did I share too much what did I do am I going to get torn apart and I just encage encourage you to just sit with it and to remind yourself that you did beautifully and what you did today will actually be very healing I believe for people that have been in your situation and also people that have um been on the other end of the situation that maybe you were or were not a part of it's an important step for men to see another man do what you did today and I honor you walk through it and I thank you I mean that's what I hope I hope that that that can come out of this you keep getting up every day don't hide I'm proud of you for being able to stay in the room um to be uncomfortable and also be comfortable to be challenged in different ways um you can see us trying to navigate you know we want to be really protective of you and mindful of your um wounds and also hold each other accountable yeah for how we can be better and that's a tough balance to do those two things um but thanks for hanging in there and if you need friends we are here I'm sure you've got many let me offer you well you can't abandon me after this conversation we're not going anywhere buddy but I hope that you do this this is really important for you find somebody if you haven't already that you tell listen to me close all of the truth in detail all of it because most likely what happens speak for myself but many up in a lot of programs we don't because we're constantly navigating what how is that going to look write it out for yourself and share it with another individual I've actually done this I've done this I liked this I hated this I I don't care whatever it is that knows the whole truth and then you can every day look about how much am I willing to then expose out but at least you're not hiding from yourself you're not convincing yourself of a narrative that's maybe not fully accurate right not saying you haven't done this but I would bet that you haven't because most of us don't we don't want to even face our ugly truths our own doing truth so like not just what happened to you but I'm talking about how you have existed in the world yeah I hope that you really find that safe person or two really at least one put it all out there and then determine later on how much you you know expose outward and Jimmie and I are also here we're not abandoning you nor Li as well I know we all here but yes I'm very proud of you brother the world is complicated humans are complicated one of the things my wife says that I always repeat is the hardest thing to do is human with other humans yeah all of us are weird and crazy and messed up and we all have trauma and we all act out our traumas in different ways and there's a reason that every religious teacher every Prophet every Sage who's ever walked the face of the Earth has says a version of the same thing MH which is do unto others which is don't judge don't throw stones at glass houses and our faith the bive faith breathe not the sins of others so long as Thou Art thyself a sinner and duban our faith says before you judge somebody else look in the mirror and see if you can find a fault in yourself if you find no Faults then judge it's impossible we're all complex stories are never black and white and no human is ever just good or just bad and I just want to say that because it's something that I see happening so much in the world is we just want to put people in a good or a bad category I don't it's almost like I don't know if it's therapeutic for people it's like oh well they're good and then they're bad oh but then they did that one bad thing so that one that one bad thing makes that good person bad and that's not the case yeah we're complex and I see you and I honor you and I can imagine how hard it's been been for you and I thank you for being here and for staying in the room and for sharing your heart yes sir and uh well thank you guys and you are enough man thank you you are indeed you really are thank you so let's wrap up with our final question what does it mean to you to be mad enough well I'll take something from what you just said is um being able to be honest with yourself so that you're able to be honest with others um I think uh that being that's such a hard I mean that's a great answer that's a great answer that's actually a great answer because yeah and and what else and and I'm gonna answer for you what you did today what you did today what you demonstrated today well thank you we all have a job every every person listening to this not just man has a responsibility to reparent themselves to work work on their healing to be honest with themselves um and in general to find a way to be a safe place because if us I'm going to use men and I say this a lot if we can't learn how to be safe spaces for ourselves then the world will never be a safe space for anybody and no one around us will ever feel safe yeah and definitely that's why we're here that's why we do the show and um thank you so much for listening to this if you made it through this episode this was a very this was a I mean talk about coming back to an episode I was thinking about that and thank you for choosing you chose to be here yeah thank you guys means a lot yeah was a lot all right looking forward that that that vulnerability hangover I'm sure it's already happening all right so where do they find us if you want to listen to more enough/ podcast wherever you get your podcast we're on YouTube if you want to watch us um and see Justin's Canadian tuo situation um we are everywhere and we love to see you in our community on Instagram on Tik Tok and all the next social media platform that comes out between the time that we record this and it airs um until we see next time thanks for joining us uh this is the man of podcast he's Jamie Heath uh I'm Justin Bon and you are let's play that's right well done Justin all right well done we'll see you next [Applause] time [Music] [Music] n

Channel: We Are Man Enough

Views: 206,905

Keywords: Man Enough, Justin Baldoni, Man Enough Podcast, Drake Bell, Jamey Heath, Liz Plank, #QuietOnSet, #TheDarkSideofKidsTV, #DrakeandJosh, #Nickelodeon, #InvestigationDiscovery, #TheAmandaShow, #BrianPeck, #DanSchnieder

Id: Ub6kFCsTvL8

Length: 100min 20sec (6020 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 08 2024