Betrayal Legacy Review by Man vs Meeple (Avalon Hill)

you [Music] welcome back to MVM today we have a review this one is for betrayal legacy this is a game that we've played what 13 or 14 different 13 sessions yeah and one tutorials section that you kind of learn the gameplay so today we're obviously gonna try to steer away from spoilers if at all possible we're gonna talk about the differences between betrayal the original betrayal and a betrayal legacy and then we're gonna get into our pros and cons with the game so Ryan you've played portrayal probably the most out of all of us yeah I like it a lot of betrayal well first of all so for those who haven't played betrayal the game is pretty simple in that you are moving around this mansion exploring rooms and you're drawing rooms off of a stack what's cool about this version is it introduces the outdoors so that's one more region you can explore the ground floor the upper floor of the basement or the outdoors which adds a whole new set of tiles to the game that you didn't have before and really like it seems like a little thing but it gives you a whole nother area to explore like a whole another huge thing to do a lot more design space two things right am haunts that are outside and that's another thing too you'll notice events and items which were part of a regional betrayal now these items and events only trigger in specific areas so if you're outside you get an outside event if you're in the basement you get a basement event one of my biggest complaints about the original betrayal was that for a game so thematic you could be on the ground floor and draw a card about being like in a cellar and it signals doesn't make any sense thematically right so they did kind of sort through that it also makes it more interesting because these events can be tailored to your situation well it's cool too because as you start to play more of the game you start to learn where certain items can be found yeah if you find something and you give it a name you know that by searching in the ground floor you're more likely to find that than going outside obviously because it may not be in that location and that's another new thing they added in betrayal legacy are these heirlooms now when you're dressed certain items you can heirloom them which you take a little sticker off of a sticker sheet put your sticker on there and give it a name which is really cool because that item is then going to go back into the deck at the end of that session and it's going to be just randomly with him there so other people are going to find your item you named in later playthroughs those heirloom items are really cool too because they give you perks if it is your heirloom that's right a little extra special ability on top of that so let's talk about just our experience overall before we get into pro's and con's as we said we've played to this 14 times including the tutorial this is a legacy style game so if you're not familiar with that if there's a campaign and the more that you play the game the more things you're going to experience through the course of the game the game is really cool too because like you're unlike the original game which the hunt was always introduced at very specific times in the chapters here the haunts are introduced at very random times and it really depends upon your ability to find omen tiles and be able to do very specific triggers within the game which is new to this as well so it kind of tailors your experience as you go through the campaign yes and some of them are the same as sometimes you're just rolling dice and the further that you get to the campaign - you're gonna find a lot of divergent roads - like in the original betrayal you had very specific things that you were doing very specific scenarios and this one something you do at point-a could lead to point C or D depending upon your actions in that so after we've played this now 13 times I would suspect that our experience is going to be vastly different than other players who have played the game yeah and we should mention now of course this is what you see in front of you are kind of the starting components kind of yeah you're a lot of these cards like the event deck and the item or the location deck like they're pretty huge because we've found all the new tiles but new tiles and new cards are going to be added all the time or not based on the decisions you've made and there are also a lot of cards and mechanics and and tokens and secret things that I don't want to mention that are gonna be in the board as well so this is not nearly everything that you're gonna want cover through the course of the campaign all right let's get into our pros and cons because we'll talk more about the actual game as we talk about our experiences so this is your first time playing any betrayal game correct and it's your first time playing a legacy game - yes so this is a lot to take in for you yes what's your feeling overall just an overall I'm feeling about the game I mean it was incredible I really enjoyed it Mille to build something over time and having your decision to really have anything having an impact like for instance choosing to heirloom an item or not like do I do it now if I don't well lose that opportunity to do it that was a big deal thinking through you know just all the different possibilities of what we're gonna do and then just the fun parts of naming your character and if you're going to keep the same character or not depending on what happens to the character throughout the campaign that's a really cool aspect in this game and I'll point to mine at the start of the game you're gonna have your own board that's going to mark all forward your different tracks but on the back side you have kind of a family chart and this takes place from 1666 all the way to 2004 so obviously as you play the game some of your family members might die and you're gonna actually write the family history on here the age of their death whether or not they were a traitor or not whether or not they lived or died and it's repaired to live you could take that character over to the next game depending upon their age of course and follow that family history through which is really because you start to play the game you start to get purely invested in your characters and what they're doing and you start to write stories and interact with what the other people are doing in the game as well well and that's that's a really cool part of the game that I really enjoy is almost brings a role-playing aspect on the table now there's nothing mechanically that's telling you make up a story or it doesn't have any benefit but for example my character was a priest and one of the first items I found was a Bible which of course like so I named it's his like I put it's his Bible and like in future sessions where I found his Bible I'm like well this is my great great great grandfather's Bible that we found somewhere in this house right and it makes these cool story moments that are not at all mechanical yeah but that just add into that narrative and like make it feel like a like a living breathing history right right one of the things I'll mention as one of my pros is that I've played a lot of legacy game I played gloom Haven pandemic charter stone this is the first game that I played that truly introduces new content every single time you play the game and by that I mean you get new items you get new omens you get new floor tiles sometimes you'll depending upon the haunt you'll go back to cards that have previously existed from a previous haunt and you'll check them off like little check boxes on the cards which means the next time you find that card or someone finds that card it does something new in the actual haunt itself so this game consistently every single haunt that you play introduces new content and that's awesome I mean yeah really really immersive when that happens I mean it's super it's super narrative-driven and the whole time that's over this 13 sessions you're experiencing kind of a meta plot that's carrying over the entire history of the house and a lot of that meta plot is hidden within things you'll find around the house people you'll be introduced to different people you can talk to and interact with there's some unique components I'm not going to talk about that are going to be a surprise that referenced even like the prehistory that takes place like hundreds of years before the story and all this kind of coma accumulates in like this crazy rich narrative yeah yeah something that I really liked was that I never played betrayal and I could play this game it didn't having no previous knowledge of material other than that it was a game that existed didn't impact my play or enjoyment of the game at all whatsoever it actually helped build up something that made me more interested in playing betrayal so that I know more about the story later one of the cool things too that I really enjoyed about it was that one of things that worried me as well was I figured as you played the game you become familiar with the tiles that are there and I felt that initially that the game would become boring over time because you'd be visiting the same locations the same room tiles but actually it added to the enjoyment of the game because each time that you play a game it randomizes the way that you get those tiles because you're always searching from the top of the deck and trying to find new locations and the way that you place these into random rooms it really randomizes the immensely each time that you play it not only that but the tiles are going to get stickers on them for certain things that happen so locations that something nefarious has happened in it becomes again another immersive plotline in the game like if I've killed someone in a very specific location it's going to add something to that room that's going to empower that room in later scenarios so it's really cool as you play the game one of the rooms I'll mention is it's it's the collapsed room yeah I was thinking the same thing it was always worrisome to travel the up the upstairs and the ground-floor because you knew that you could find this collapsed tile that would throw you into the basement so it's always that caution about going through the deck and trying to find that and it was always a point of contention like do I want to search the ground-floor because I'm know something Bad's gonna suck if you're outside you know you're not cops and in the room you know and there's a lot of those tiles in there they become really familiar with the more that you played the game and again I was really worried about it the first time but as I said you're constantly getting new tiles so you may find them you may not find them but when you do find them it's really cool do you like I've been there before I've done this before and there's a there's actually it becomes an element of comfort too when you room you know you're like okay at least I know nothing Crazy's happening in this room because I've been here before now you're gonna draw an event or whatever but like their specific rooms you're always hunting for like an armory that gives you weapons and things like that you're passages like you'll find yeah you know kind of where that you'd want to get those secret passage ties out so you can move around the manor a little quicker there's a lot of cool like Easter eggs to hidden within all those tiles the other cool thing I'll mention are the haunts we played through a via Slee the game comes with multiple different books you have books for the survivors you have books for the traders you have a bleak journal which we don't have in here that's been a walk you through some of the story elements but the haunts that we did experience are extremely varied and we only played through out of the 14 sessions maybe half of those well we play so you play through one per session and we played 13 haunts there are 50 in the book yeah so depending upon again there's a lot that we didn't play yeah depending upon your actions in the game they're gonna lead to different points within the story so there's times in the game you're going to be ripping up tiles because something has happened very specifically in that room or when you get in new plank of tiles you're only introducing one of those tiles because it ties into the previous storyline of the house yeah that ties into one of my biggest pros when it comes to this game is that when you're done you have Ally living breathing completely unique copy of betrayal that you can then play over and over and over again you're gonna the event deck and the item deck aren't changing anymore but like that's no different than going and playing the old betrayal yeah except this time when I go over to your house and play your betrayal I'm gonna see items I've never seen its encounter events I've never encountered even find rooms that I've never been to which is completely cool so becomes a question like Oh whose betrayal are we playing tonight everybody bring your betrayal we'll see how different they are yeah the haunts are also very varied to the ones that we experience there's ones that where we're all working together we think there's ones where we have obviously different types of things that you're trying to do within the game so yes have any other pros before you get into negatives I mean there's I could talk endlessly about pros this was like you said earlier this is the best legacy experience I've ever had I would agree I think it's also and your only experience yes my only experience tonight I mean I'd have to say like it set the bar pretty high for whenever I play another legacy game and honestly it just it was I just really had a lot of fun it was very tense at times to play I loved feeling that immersed in the game there were so many moments where you draw a new card and read it or new and you're just like what like there was moments where like everybody the table just like was like a shock or like laughter like there's a lot of shared epic frustration like a lot of shared epic emotions that come from these cards and events and omens and things like that and remember these pros are only covering the things that are non spoilery there's a lot of other things that we could show you components for or talk about that we just don't want to talk about here because they are pros there are things you want to experience as you play the game so negatives the game obviously he's gonna have some negatives as well the pros for me far outweigh the next kind of gaming by far it wouldn't be fair to ignore them either no so actually I did some research I went back to my 2011 betrayal video that I did yeah a long time ago and the components really have not improved they're still very flimsy cardboard the cards are okay there's not a whole lot of graphic design on the cards themselves that would be a negative ink especially the miniatures they look awful mannered ito today's date of 2019 you would expect more out of the miniatures in the game however this is a game that's a legacy game things we're gonna get ripped up things are gonna be discarded and thrown away so I can forgive that because the gameplay is there tobacco I will say the number one criticism a betrayal or like the original betrayal was that the slider sliders didn't stick they think that we do have it they do fit but now they're almost right I don't like have a trick to move them a little bit I kind of like move them off but not all the way and then slide them and then push them back down there's like the best way to do it but for me I think the miniatures were my biggest thing and not just because they're I get that they're simplified because of the type of game it is but the fact is is that you're using these miniatures throughout the game and you're aging your character up and it was very limiting you start off with five that's no spoiler it's just the beginning that you can choose from there's three male characters and two female characters and so there's a little or little girl little girl and a grown-up girl who don't look anything have don't have similar features so if you're aging up it's like oh now my hair is red there's a priest that's very specific and then you know a very little girl and a boy with the torch so the the variety there as you're aging the characters up it's kind of like lose that immersion yeah just just a tiny bit but minor overall honestly in the grand scheme of it my my biggest con or complaint as something that does actually carryover from the original betrayal and I don't know what they could have done to address it they do mitigate it a little bit but some of the haunts are just very anticlimactic there are there are moments when you introduce a hot and set of the hot and the traitor is two steps away from completing it or just has a very easy advantage or sometimes you get a huge advantage going into these haunts and balance issues are gonna be there in a game like this because you don't know who's gonna end up being the traitor you don't know what the haunts gonna be or what the objective is and sometimes the board placement can make it very frustrating I remember one take Euler where I was the trader and you guys almost just could not complete the objective simply because of the way the board was laid out yeah that's that's one of my negatives too is that the way that the house is built out before the hunt begins is going to steer the direction of that haunt itself and there's times where the haunt is incredibly difficult to accomplish depending upon how the house is built out one example was we had a shoot that was allowed people to move down to the basement and you could just slide your monsters directly down there because they're responding right next to it and there's really nothing we could have done we were in the wrong location at the wrong time and thematically thinking about that yes it's unsatisfying as a gameplay element but that's the way the house was built out I mean that's the legacy portion yeah game so I can again that's something I can forgive because I know that my experience may be different than someone else's and that haunts is over all fell on the other side of that like they were super satisfying there's a lot of variety to what you're trying to do but the ones that didn't land or probably because of the way the houses yeah there was one specifically where I was the traitor and right before there was something that had happened that gave you more ability and one thing guys so much that it made it very impossible for me to be a good traitor and also the other piece was that the route the house hadn't been explored enough so several of the rooms that were needed were not out yet so do I focus on the one room that's available to me or do I continue to explore to try and mitigate this overpowered people trying to work against me that was probably I remember being very frustrated after that but at the same time after the hunt was over you're like okay well that was the story of that particular year in the house so that's how did that impact the next year so frustrating in the moment but overall it added to the overall status for a player's a betrayal are gonna are gonna know that yeah but it's some of these haunts aren't super long and then no matter what happens you're driving the story forward no matter who wins and they're still moving on to the next hunt so if frustrated yes but you're gonna quickly forget that when you're punching tiles and adding new cards and moving on to the next part of the story right so it's not it's not a game breaking complaint by two more negatives one I'm gonna piggyback off your Pro where you said at the end of the game you can play the game as a standalone version of the game I don't know if I would ever do that because I feel like even after playing the game through once and playing it 14 times I would want to buy a new copy and go through and try to experience those haunts that I have an experience in the past because that's the true lure of the game to me is finding those new tiles introducing those new tiles events happening in different ways opens coming out in different ways naming those differently and just experiencing it from a different perspective than what we originally experienced it because I want to play betrayal I might just go play the original betrayal I don't know either way I want to go through the game as a whole itself now the other thing I'll say before I get before you guys and comment on that is my other negative and that's that as you play through the game there's some rules and this is probably just cuz the immense amount of content with the the journal itself we're kind of left for interpretation we found some instances where we weren't quite sure what specific things meant and that's probably because there's so many words written in here and a lot of the rules are dependent upon the actual haunt itself so we've had that you know go to the design designer and say hey what does this mean exactly that's not in the rulebook because it's obviously tied to the haunt itself and there's a great FAQ on be GG that's spoiler free char so you kind of go in there you look for the chapter you can click to reveal the spoiler that helps a little bit but you're right there are a lot of ambiguous rules yeah and that's you know it's gonna happen I mean I think I'm with Jeremy on wanting to play through it getting a new copy of legacy because for me there was so much content that we didn't touch and one of my favorite things about the game probably hands down is reading through the different books and so I know I kind of like kept the book myself and I wanted to read all of it because I enjoy that piece and so there was so much we didn't read oh yeah so much we didn't get to and not to mention it's not just the books that have all this wonderful story text the cards have wonderful story text there's always something new even on even if it's just a sentence there's something and you're wanting to read it and a in a voice of some kind and really like you said that argument and really kind of immerses you in the story so for me I'd go back I'd rather I don't know lady so now for me again to counterpoint that if I'm gonna play betrayal I want to play this one right yes I might I might bring in players that didn't play the legacy version if we have like David or somebody didn't play this with us come over mm-hmm I want to play it's familiar to me and when I draw an item I it's that that memory of like oh yeah I remember when you know Jeremy killed me with this item or like I remembered Kiera found this item in it had an epic moment so like there's all these memories tied into this version of the game yeah and I think it's cool that if you choose to you can just keep playing this version and keep kind of reliving those memories you're not progressing any story anymore but you're still gonna have access to the haunts you didn't play through the first time they just triggered just like they did in and regular betrayal so so guys that is a betrayal legacy a three to five player cooperative slash competitive legacy game from Rob Davi Oh fantastic experience I highly recommend this game mbm approved title of course of course make comments below share your experiences about the game with us we'd like to hear about them follow us on Twitter like us on Facebook and everything else that we do and we will catch you guys next time

Channel: Man vs Meeple

Views: 26,146

Rating: 4.7469878 out of 5

Keywords: Betrayal at House on the Hill, Betrayal, Betrayal Legacy, Legacy, Gen Con, Essen, Kickstarter, Board Game, Boardgame, Tabletop Game, Card Game, Watch it Played, BoardGameGeek, BGG, IGN, The DIce Tower, Cooperative, Storytelling, Narrative Game, Legacy Game, Rob Daviau, Game of the Year, Traitor, One Vs Many

Id: wK3fNAK-gQI

Length: 21min 27sec (1287 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 14 2018