Beatrice Chestnut - Type 9 Enneagram Panel

[Music] so welcome back from lunch I hope you had a good one for our 9 panel we have an excellent 9 panel for you and I'll say a few words about 9 and then we'll get into the panel so 9 is the core point of the body based triad which means it's in the middle and it's also on the inner triangle from 9 3 to 6 which means that it's a kind of foundational point for it's sort of a the middle point the foundational point and to some degree eighths and 1 our variation on 9 so 9 is at the top of the diagram nines are types we're also like we talked about with eights anger types however with 9 anger has gone to sleep 9s under do anger and if you ask most naive 9s who don't know the Enneagram if they're angry they usually say no I never get angry I'm not angry and so the interesting that happens with the thing that happens with nines is and again this goes for all emotions for all of us when we're not aware of them and we don't consciously feel them it doesn't mean they go away and four 9s they leak out in passive forms now nines focus of attention and for all of any Grimm types one of the things I think is very interesting and that I like about the Enneagram is that to a large degree the what what defines the personality type is where what they focus their attention on and of course our old teacher David Daniels would always remind us that energy follows attention and so what you pay attention to gets your energy and 9s tend to pay attention to harmony in the environment creating harmony among people and avoiding conflict is everyone getting along oftentimes as children they had the experience of being overlooked as if their viewpoint or they themselves we're not quite as important as the other people in the environment or as louder voices in the environment and so as a coping strategy they kind of take the path of least resistance and kind of get along to go along well I'll just sort of harmonize with others agendas I'll go along with what the other louder voices in the family system or the world want and I'll kind of go along and so they tend to go to sleep too or not be in touch with their own agenda their own anger sometimes to some degree their own opinions because if you're someone who really wants to avoid conflict and create harmony in the world or in your environment being having a strong opinion being angry is not something that's going to necessarily foster a sense of harmony and and Nine's feel a sense of well-being with when harmony is happening and conflict feels like separation and to some degree nines or the archetype that remind us almost of a union it can be union with the divine it can be union with the mother in the womb or after birth when we're really child and mother are one this sort of all the good things that come in fusion and union with others and and at the same time like with every Enneagram type in every Enneagram attribute there's tends to be a good side and a bad side and upside in a downside so the upside of this of this stance is they tend to be very helpful in supportive of others they tend to like it help people get along 9s are very good at seeing all sides of an issue and helping mediate disputes and helping people understand each other better and they tend to be easygoing and likeable and easy to get along with because they're not expressing anger they're not exerting their strong opinions and and saying everyone should do it my way they're supporting others and going with the flow however the downside especially for them is that they tend to get out of touch when you don't when something's threatening like anger can feel to them because it potentially creates conflict and disruption and separation they go to sleep to it there can be a lack of consciousness about their own inner being their desires their anger and so they can they can not always be in touch with themselves so so it can be hard for them to say know what they want or know what their agenda is and so sometimes they may go along with others agendas but at a certain point realize like hey I never really agreed to this and there can be a sense of passive resistance that comes up at a certain point when they get in touch with the fact that you know I wasn't really consulted here or I wasn't given an opportunity to express my opinion now of course it's hard for them to bring that forward sometimes but it can be a situation where want nine sometimes no more what they don't want than what they want so the archetype old example is when you ask a nine where would you like to go to dinner and they say I don't know where would you like to go and you say well let's go to Mexican food and they say I don't want Mexican food right so they know what they don't want but it's harder for them to choose and I'll say okay well why don't you choose oh no no you choose you know we can it can look a little bit like that so of course the growth path for nines is to get more in touch with themselves get more in touch with their own agenda and their own anger in their own path and go up against other people and risk having conflicts to express their own unique desires and and and feelings more actively in the world so I will leave it there and I'll trust that our experts will cover the rest of the territory and that we'll learn much more from them so welcome everyone thank you for being here I want to introduce our panel first we have starting from the other end Matt we have Jill we have Steve Krista Oren and Delia so welcome everyone and thank you for being here to help us understand nine Delia would you start and let us know a little bit about how you came to see yourself as a nine what that was like and how you see some of these nine patterns showing up in your life sure I was introduced to the anagram I think when we were in graduate school together yeah study in counseling psychology and I remember reading through the types and identifying with most of them except I would you know I was not an eighth and trust me oh my god in the eighth panel if I could say I am the opposite of that so many I mean there's so many things I'm like and he also so it was hard to choose but it was pretty clear from the the idea of self forgetting and so I grew up in not the most functional family and there was a lot of neglect and there was a lot of dissociation so dissociation was sort of what I did in order to survive and I did very much merge with my mother who was very interested in telling me who I was and so okay and I learned to look outside of myself to get some kind of reflection because I had not gotten really I would say adequate mirroring in in my early relationships and I was really reliant on my relationships to show me who I was but it's hard when you are paying so much attention outside to the other that you are not focusing inward at all so I relate to the idea of not not being aware of my anger I used to recognize that I was angry when you know I would be like are you angry with me and and then I understood that that was projection and it was helpful so you would suspect that the other person was angry at you and that was the clue that maybe you were angry with them so it took a while but I I i woke up and and no actually I'm quite aware which is really I'm grateful for mm-hmm and how often are you angry now Oh constantly yeah no I think it's interesting when we would talk about subtype I'm curious about this but I am I'm a I'm a sexual 9 but so I'm very aware of my my attachments but if I'm not physically comfortable I just can't I can't I can't tolerate it you know fine cold or I'm hungry I have to pee like it's it's a bit just you know in feeds my consciousness mm-hmm that's oh there may be some self-praise themes in there as well I'd be sad oh yeah yes mm-hmm so anything else you want to you mentioned merging with your mother merging isn't a thing that 9s do can you say a little bit more about what that is for you or how that happens well I think I learned how to be as you know many many children to how to be I don't want to use the word a narcissistic because this is being taped I learned how to attune very very closely to my mother and it was very important for me to do that so in in a tuning to others I mean I think it makes me a great psychotherapist but it is it's always been important for me to try to have some kind of an attachment figure to to look toward for support or protection because those were things that I didn't get a lot of in my in my parental relationships and yeah I haven't I haven't actually succeeded so well in the merging well it sounds like the attunement is sort of the beginning of it it's it's almost like a looking to that person for a sense of who you are and I know sexual Nine's can do this even a little more than other nines in terms of really finding an identity or a sense of who you are in that relationship and in the other person I like the way Naranjo put it he said sometimes for a sexual sexual sexual 9:00 one plus one equals one instead of one plus one equal to and to really have healthy relationship you need to be standing in your own body in your own feet and yet there's a way that sexual nines can really merge at the other person almost too with the place where you don't really know where the boundary is so it's almost like an attuning but then a blending then a blending and I think I mean for instance I don't like being the center of attention makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be here and when I'm anxious I lose touch with myself so I need to kind of check back with you what did you say what was that question help me find you know my Center so I I life has given me a lot of opportunities to grow and my attempts to merge with others have been thwarted beautifully said what that has allowed me to do is to concentrate you know sometimes because I had to on what I was feeling and what I needed in order to preserve myself and to thrive and and now I mean I I think in at this phase of my life I was told recently I'm also an archetypal astrologer which I feel a little you know like I'm being disloyal it's good it's some but I was told in a reading that my primary attachment in this lifetime is with the divine and I thought okay I can do that yes that takes the pressure off yes and I think that because I I spend you know an able to spend a lot of time by myself and I'm able to nurture my relationship with myself and my I am a very devotional person I'm very devoted to my clients to my relationships it's easy for to put that energy out that to focus it where it really needs to be focused it feels like I have kind of been given an enormous and gift and I can relax now right and it's healthy for sexual nice to spend time alone whether they're in relationship or not and it's healthy to have that merger be with the divine as a way of being and and I love that you mentioned that you're an archetypal astrologer because there's a little three in you and they which is healthy because again that's a something you're really really good at and something I think in the past you may not have mentioned because nines are very modest and there's a way they won't bring forward like here's who I am and here's what I'm good at and so I love that you mentioned that because thank you you're new you have so much knowledge about that and so well thank you I mean take that as a sign of Health it's it's really helpful I think to have the Enneagram as a tool to have something to grow toward and to know that to move toward three and actually claim some of those things and step out of the shadows where I feel so much more comfortable is is helpful for me right evelopment right and I think you're it's a good point about the Enneagram in terms of twos also twos and 9s were so other focused to kind of give us a sense of oh here's what health means you know it's good to focus on myself a lot of times when I'm working with twos as clients and they start to pay more attention to themselves which is a good thing for them same with nines they start to feel like it's selfish you know or oh I shouldn't be doing this actually it's important to have the Enneagram telling you know actually it's good for you to be it's good for you to connect with yourself and to get more in touch with who you are thank you Lauren can you tell us about how you came to understand your any prototype and how you see that looking for you well I'm kind of new to the India gram it's only been three or four years and I can't say that it done work specifically about it but Mannie Graham has been infused into the place that I work at ah and there are continuous conversations about it and there's two men in my life one's a1 and ones five and they both had different opinions about Who I am one was convinced I'm a nine the other was convinced I'm a seven ah and there was a constant struggle between the two they let you weigh in don't know each other through me I see and I was trying to figure it out but the more I read about the nine especially the functions around voice and and anger it was very clear to me at some point and that the way that I approach the world is definitely from the perspective of looking for that harmony some of the ways I do that is by creating plans and bringing joy and being optimistic and making sure the room is happy right but kind of the driving forces to make sure there is harmony in the world right rad is really that's anice are very positive that's definitely a nine trait but your like like you said it sounds like the focus the driver is more about creating harmony yeah I grew up as a middle child gay in a very much of society hmm so it was the for me when I look back it was a great coping mechanism it's like okay let's make sure that everything is in place and that no one knows who I am and no make sure there's harmony it was very much away stay safe and blend in yes and then as a consequence of that when I was reading about how nine loses their voice or loses their presence I could see where that was coming from and that's kind of been core to my work both my work and myself and my work in my workplace is about how do I bring myself to be present that is the ongoing struggle is like okay so how do I bring myself into a position of leadership in a position of taking responsibility in a position of finding my own voice and bringing that into how I work right right because everyone's better off actually if your voice is in there though sometimes it feels like well everyone is better off if their voices in there yes yes and that's I think what nines really see yeah I really get that like I see that when I walk into a room I survey the room and I always can you know kind of click people work you know now I use the angiogram as a convenient way oh that's the eight and I can do that Barnard of how to do a strategy if I'm building a team or if I'm creating some up working relationship kind of being able to put together that pieces of the puzzle so that I can orchestrate that it all works together which is interesting it's both kind of the challenge in terms of like I disappear but at the same time it's a form of leadership yes it's a kind of a very powerful form of leadership because it's a way of building kind of a cohesiveness a kind of a group intelligence yes that counts of being in tune with what's going around yes and you mentioned here a social 9 and social nines that's really they make great leaders exactly because of that because they can kind of get people and they're really motivated to harmonize the group not for their own benefit but for the benefit of the group and the cause so being that's I feel that I used to do that a lot more as a way to protect myself but now it's more in tension so it also around the question of disagreement and conflict and anger which I actually fired a therapist once because they told me you should get angry and I'm like I don't believe in angry we should do anger I'm leaving and I got up and left no I'm a Buddhist I don't get angry this may have needed to take a more gradual approach that was a lot a long time ago but yeah that fear of angers when I was looking at the types it was very clear that I'm definitely in the body nine avoid anger yeah until this very day them now I recognize those feelings and I know what I can do with it mm-hmm so when I feel anger I'm like okay I'm very conscious of that stance yeah so it doesn't manifest maybe like my kids I think they're in their teens and 20s now they've maybe seen me angry once wow I do not get angry but I have the feelings of anger I know where that comes from and then it manifests maybe not in the forms of raising voice or in terms of of any kind of violent kind of acting out but I'm very much familiar with those feelings and then I kind of take the stance what do I do with this and then channel it to a different place and that's where it falls back into the harmony Hailee's have you have you seen have you observed yourself being passive-aggressive ever does that happen [Laughter] a lot less now so over the years kind of having certain practices have made me aware of that stance as well so moving away from the stance and passive-aggressive and putting it on the table mm-hmm which is kind of the culture we built in our workplace it's great is that okay I'm aware of that we'll just put it on the table that's a good way to put it yeah yeah it takes time yes it's not usually at the moment that it's happening it's usually like a few hours later yeah and might be in the form of an email right right yeah I have a friend who's a nine and he said he would have arguments with his wife and she would be saying and you did this and you did this and you did this and he'd be thinking to himself wow that's a really good point oh that's another really good point and it was hard he knew that he didn't want to you know agree with her that it wasn't the whole story or he had a side but it was hard for him to get in touch with it in the moment and to access anger what he learned to do kind of like what you're saying is learn to say I'll get back to you in a day you know I'll talk to you tomorrow evening and bye and I will have sort of worked to get more in touch with my side of the story right now your sounds pretty good but I'm not gonna tell you that the more I practice it the more I'm conscious of it the better I get at it yeah or in the whole dinner situation I'm married to a tooth so weird between us where do you want to know where do you want to go now what are you yeah but now there's a consciousness so like okay this is this game that we're gonna do it and I have to actually it's not easy to say where do I want to go to there yeah you know I know that it's like listening to the previous panels like there was no ambiguity about that you know and very certain yeah so and I like the way you're saying this because I think it points to kind of the gradual nature that is just the case with growth of being able to learn first to observe what we're doing and then to gradually give yourself a little room to start to do it differently and I like putting it on the table sending it in an email whatever works you know to help you get get it out there and recognize that it's important great thank you Christa how does this show up for you how do you see your nine patterns playing out so I'll start at the beginning okay so my parents argued a lot and when I was young and my mo was to duck for cover and definitely blend in can you pop me with a couple more questions sure so what was it so so it sounds like when in conflict you kind of felt like you had to get away from that yeah I don't know how do you feel about conflict today like how does that how did that sort of shape you in terms of your relationship with conflict right I definitely didn't get angry but then I found myself in a college relationship I'm a attraction sexual one-to-one instinctive subtype and and in this particular relationship with a five when I said you might not be right we got into argument at least once or twice a month and I over the course of the four years um pretty much re-enacted my parents relationship and eventually I realized through the Enneagram that I had to ask myself what do you want what you need and what are you feeling although in the last few years I forgot to ask myself what I was feeling but I definitely um got angry in the car I still get angry in the car other drivers but um so I'm definitely in touch with my assertiveness over the years and needing to reacquaint myself with my feelings and I am an office manager for in a 160 employee company in our offices forty-four thousand square feet and for the last three years I've been my job is to basically make sure everybody is happy I'm an activities director or a fun director so I planned the fun things for the company too and that's gone really well again um I get praised for doing a good job of making sure everybody's got their tea and coffee and if things organized and planning fun events we just say what's your experience of anger or a lack of anger like what what does how does that look do these variants yourself getting angry ever or is you see any passive aggressive behavior what is that look like I used to have passive aggressive especially in showing up late late and I didn't I didn't was totally out of touch with my anger from much of my life until those relationships a couple of them and now I can access anger but um I also wrap it in the context of feelings in general because I think that my mo was to bypass feelings go from the gut to the head and get cerebral on things and mmm I actually skipped I can skip over the feelings in tirely and just go straight to anger if I want but um assertiveness comes into the play I don't actually find I need to get angry that much except for at other drivers um and it's convenient because they're not actually in your car with you yeah and I am diplomatic their diplomatic yeah millions can be very diplomatic and we just helpful if they work and so yeah I think um I think I'm actually sorry my fifth chakra let's see so in the gas station yesterday there are long lines and the person in front of me didn't notice that there was a space available there's four actually yeah there's like eight and you can't see ahead and so this person from behind came up and took the spot by passing her and I coming from another Lane and I was filling on my tank and getting in touch with my assertiveness in my age especially I I saw her and I said and I went up to her and I said did you pass up everybody and she goes well nobody was taking I said and I basically told her she needed to tell somebody in line and I got very I wasn't afraid to confront her and I'm not afraid to confront them the assertive part is dial down is that a new is that a new thing so I think he's accumulated over the years yeah I'm very comfortable being assertive and that's an accomplishment because they definitely was not that in my youth mmm at all yeah yeah the next part is self-promotion or you know like oh my god this whole dating online thing it freaks me out because I've got to promote myself and I'm terrible and I'm like nah yeah but the service I've got down the self promotion is still mm-hmm that's a sort of standing for who you are yeah great thank you Steve be you and I go way back go way back yes and so my first exposure to the Enneagram was in the 1980s with Dave Daniels and and company and I remember I was pretty sure I was at nine when I read the account and and I didn't like it of course like so many of us don't like it when we see our blind spots right and and there was an active panel that was I was on a panel there was a very active panel like the eights were this morning right before us and the nines come up on the panel and suddenly and I look out there and everybody's kind of falling asleep I mean this sleep thing is confection so that was my first experience of oh yes we are all we are all in the same boat and so so anger has been of course a you know a major issue and I was I remember this is just even this morning these patterns are so durable I'm 73 years old I've been doing this for 40 years and and they're very durable this morning when the eights were up there and you know they were taking up so much space and not not to mention oxygen and I'm feeling short of breath I know they're my shadow and I know I should like them but whoa and really it's not just anger either its excitation energy and yeah Nine's can kind of sort of not take up their own space exactly when I was I was the youngest of three and it was an extroverted family very social not me and so I learned to go along to get along and that was my fixed pattern and I married a nine at age 23 and the two of us completely went to sleep to our anger until seven years later at seven-year anger itch it all exploded and of course the relationship was over then I married this lovely four over here who didn't have a problem with anger and I learned a fight yeah relationships are powerful in our development and especially with the tool of the antia ground yes along with that so I have to tell you the one I so we were both on panels back in 1994 at the stamp first International Enneagram conference at Stanford University and I was on the two panel you were on the nine panel and I vividly remember something you said on that panel which is only this is what it was oh it's not the same thing Enneagram helped you and you thought it saved your marriage and he remembered one time when you and your wife were having a big fight and she was a four and you didn't know what to do we didn't know how to deal with this and so you picked up in Enneagram book to see what said Helen Palmer's book and it said and said what do i do as a nine and it said weather the storm and you said I can do that and there was there was remember that for all time because I think it was it was such a beautiful description of how you use relationship as a path and how you sort of realize oh yeah I can I can do that because nines can be very strong and I don't think they get enough credit for how much energy they do have it's just that they it disperses right you know eights are really good at sort of holding the energy and being over a direct with it 9s have a lot of energy it's just that they don't sort of kind of bring it in for themselves well you know the thing is we're leaky reacting buckets energy comes in really easily so you know we're good at picking up subtle energies and we pick up this strong energy really strongly I had to go out and go for a walk after this morning and I was on a walk with Monica and a bit of an emerging yeah no no what do you mean with like feeling the energy like really taking on some of the big energy but being a little bit like it penetrates yeah yeah it's not your usual thing no yeah so I went out for a walk with Annika and you know she's big energy too and at a certain point I said I have to be alone for um you walk back I need some time alone in the forest uh-huh this is literally it this is where I put myself back together where I where I say okay get silent look look at the trees here the serve oh yeah I'm me coming back to you coming back to me it's an essential feeling and I know that with the practice of the Enneagram I can feel it I know it I know that there's more light coming out through this particular lens and there's more light coming in and it's um it's been a great gift tremendous gift that's great keep going thank you Steve Thank You Jill so how how did you see yourself is in in the Enneagram nine and how does it look for you well I love being with you all it's it's such a relief in a way and I I had not done any psychotherapy or anything when I moved to Berkeley in the 80s and my daughter's boyfriend's mother was a student of Helen Palmer's and she said go see these panels and so I went every week for nine weeks and she started with once and and then when she got to nine she said now if you thought you were everybody else except maybe eight or nine and it was true because every night I was oh well maybe I could see I could you know I could relate to just about everything yeah and I think the edge for me has been picking the right people in a certain way to relate to I mean I've my my mother wasn't eight it was a crazy childhood I'm married and an aide and had a relationship with an aunt seven eight I don't know what after that and and I would lose myself regularly and not be able to stand up to these powerful forces and a lot of anger and both my major relationships and so I had I just couldn't couldn't express mine wasn't didn't felt feel safe and and and I you know as I did things fell apart so I am a sexual nine I mean I I love one-on-one connection I have deep friendships I'm not so happy and the social the big social setting a small social setting is all right and I do have some self pres because I have had a lot of health issues so I'm kind of obsessive about keeping my body in good shape and you know doing everything so there's there's that piece but the sexual orientation is yeah and it's it's easiest for the sexual nine to lose themselves yes and I have you know I live alone and I've lived alone a lot of my life actually and and and I know that my merging with spirit is really when you said that that's that that's the truth I mean I have that incredible gift of knowing that and experiencing that and that's where the oneness is and it doesn't mean I don't share with with my friends but here is where it's at you know and here is everywhere so that the merging piece is something I have to work with with my kids and I think my daughter's example of what that looks like but maybe well my daughter is I think a 1 although she doesn't like to think about it she's you know she's were very close and and I irritate her and and I think that I'm very much affected by her reaction to me which may be annoyance or frustration it's it's hard for me I think it's hard for a lot of mothers like that but I really take it in pretty deeply so I have to go back to myself and and come home right right remember to come back inside yourself and ground yourself and your experience even your physical experience yeah and I mean any relationship I have I just want to jump in and get you know really get to know that person I mean I love the depth of connection and and then I have to come home again you have to just keep them like you did today yeah so thank you mm-hmm well said Matt hi Matt tell us about your experience of nine you've taught me a lot about nine I'm a self preservation 9 - I think I'm the only one is there a on the panel it sounds like yeah yeah I can hold it so similar i've known any grant for 20 years and i you know thought i might be a one for a while and related to every type of separate and and then I was like no that's I'm a nine okay I get it my mom wasn't probably a social nine my dad was a sexual one and so there's just a my mom kept a piece in the house and I learned early as I'm the youngest of four that keeping the peace is the way to go then don't stand out don't be - don't do anything bad certainly but don't even be too good really yeah like safely in the middle like that's like lost in the crowd it's good lesson the cow it's really good yeah yeah I got mad yesterday's so maybe I'll talk about that I'm a psychotherapist and I'm in my psychotherapy office and there's two other psychotherapists in my suite and I'm the master tenant of that and across the hall this startup left and the new people are coming in and they're doing all this construction and I'm Matt it's like it's loud it's it's messy it's dusty and so I go over there and I'm like what's going on and and as I'm doing this I'm like oh I'm mad [Laughter] like this is that okay they they're like oh you didn't talk about a guy okay and and I make well wins the noise gonna stop and there I go we only have like 30 minutes am i all right fine my next sessions at one then no more noise yes okay so we're fine go back into my office little while later the door across the knob from my office is open and all the dust is coming out and the mess and they're like am I not okay not okay then I'm like expressing my anger and now that like the foreman comes up and she's kind of she's probably an aide and I'm like this is not acceptable and she's like I could see her take a deep breath and they're talking and I'm like I'm feeling my anger and I'm like noticing that she's calm and I'm like thank you for being calm why I'm angry and she's like well I'm a I'm a certified asbestos remover and it just so happens thirty years ago I was an asbestos remover man for my summer job and I'm like well I am too and so we both know that you're doing a terrible job of containing the test the guy from upstairs came down and he like shook my hand I'm like hi I'm your neighbor this is my company I'm like great I'm like what we can do about this and he's like well at what time you're done today am i get o'clock he's like are you working tomorrow no it's like we can come back tomorrow great and so they shut it down and laughs and it was it was no more mess yeah I got to express my anger I wasn't itself like you did it really well yeah and there's like a few times in the where I could I was checking myself I'm like okay I'm angry and it's okay yeah you know like I could like normally what I'm getting angry need to stop or I need to I need to relate to this person make sure they like near me keep things harmonious but this case I was like now you it was like they're reacting to me and that's fine yeah like I need this they're gonna do this for me it's okay so was it before and after can you tell us the story about a seven years ago when you were working with an 8 and you got angry and what they said yeah I was doing a an any grand presentation the workshop with an 8 and the 3 and we're doing our last minute like run-through of all of our presentation slides right and there's something on the slide that I didn't like I was like wait stop like let's go back to that like that words needs to be and she's like I don't I don't think we need to change it and the threes like no it's fine keep going I'm like no like let's that that's not really cool like we need to change that word and she goes ok and he's the 3 is like yeah fine and so she changed the word she goes to the next slide and then she's like Matt were you just angry that was really cute thank you yeah so can you tell us now that you've told us like some very great stories about actually getting angry can you tell us any experiences or how how a Nine's passive-aggressive shows up or passive resistance like what behaviors of you may be engaged in when you weren't so good at when you hadn't developed this skill well if somebody's asking me to do something that I don't I really don't want to do and I know that they really really want me to do it a lot of times I'll just say yeah okay and but I've no intention of doing it right yeah it's kind of like like you know if things unfold in the right way maybe I can do that you know but like a just to I don't want to have the conversation of no instead of the boundary and like you know so you say yes but inside you really mean no and you really don't do it right yeah yes yes that's a great Iqaluit yeah yeah and this is where I should say it doesn't happen anymore but of course it happens that's great that's great okay one more thing I want to ask you about because this is something you said you know all my greatest hits I do yeah we've known each other a while and taught together and I've seen you on panels and you're one of my favorites but I do know another one of your greatest hits is you told me once that you know nines often have trouble making decisions yeah and can you tell us why that is and then I'll tell you what you said that was I thought was really brilliant well like sort of in the way that you know when nines learn the anagram they can see the they can relate to each of the nine types and the way like as my parents didn't want me standing out or like I like being in the middle it's good so it's really and if everything in the world is equal like if I'm this like egalitarian person and I see all people are equal and all things are equal when I look at my part my to-do-list it's all the same like how do I know which is more important how do you prioritize I prioritize how do I really understand especially because how you might know is what's important to real yeah and getting inside and that's and nines get disconnected what the and so sometimes it's like if you ask a nine what do you want they'll say I don't know right yeah that's there's like not a and what I when I worked with not what I've worked with nines I've said well I think inside deep inside you do know but you lost touch with that yeah absolutely yeah yeah right so what really instead I say so so what you said was one time you said that when you were trying to decide like say what path you wanted to take or what job you wanted to take or what you wanted to do you said one of the things that you realized is you needed to experience something before you could decide definitely and that's a body type thing totally not about thinking of imagining it it's not about what how do I feel about this it's experience and sometimes it can be as simple as like oh I maybe I should go do this and I get up and I like I'm starting to go do whatever that mic no I'm gonna do that but it's like being in motion to get a direction when I realize this doesn't feel right so I'm gonna go this other direction instead all right all right yeah thank you okay so now I want to ask you all coming back this way and maybe you can start Matt I want to say like what do you think's a particular strength but especially what's been a growth path for you like what blind spots or challenges have helped you grow and you might actually since I know met you Enneagram expert in your own right maybe you could talk a little bit about the laziness is as the passion and the right action as the high side or the virtue yeah you said earlier that energy of nine is kind of dispersed and I think that's right like if you if everything is flooded two inches it's still a lot of water but it's it's so just first you don't it's not it's not like a waterfall right yeah so so gathering it up it can be really important there's I tend to feel a lot of external pressure on me like I should be doing something or that that comes into my own psyche like my own inner critic of well you should and to be able to let go of that and just be like well maybe I don't have to or like to let let myself connect to my own body in order to take action versus trying to find a different way to take action like through some like belief or cognition or like my to-do list or whatever it's like or so other people want other people wanting me well yeah what they want me to do and to really find my own path has been about not checking it out with other people not checking it out like do you think this is good for me or not you know but like no this is what I this is what I want and so like yeah that's really about coming inside in a really intentional way and being okay with myself at a deep level to accept myself as I am right right right and and the sloth part of the laziness isn't normal what we think of as laziness it's laziness to being in touch with oneself it's like a going to sleep to oneself and in that way nines are prototypes for all of us you know the human condition is one where we go to sleep to ourselves and our deeper experience or a higher potential and so nines are the prototype for us like waking themselves up and kind of coming back to sort of gathering in that energy and being much more in touch with what do I want how do I feel physically emotionally and how can I take action in in in service of what I want instead of in service of harmony of the group or getting along with you or not making you angry you've probably heard this story before but this is a story I love your greatest me and yeah a meditation retreat when I was was my very very first meditation retreat like it was right after 2001 like right after 9/11 it like literally a week and a half like I wrote of my first meditation retreat and on my first interview like so two days in my first interview with the teacher I I said well I keep falling asleep and I'm trying everything that I know how to try I'm biting my tongue I've /water my face I'm going for a walk I'm sleeping at the walking meditation instead like I've done everything in the manual to do and I go in there and all I can do all that happens is I fall asleep and my Buddhist teacher hid his very Buddhist way said that what you're experiencing is called sleepiness and he said well what you're also experiencing is a version to your sleepiness you're feeling you're experiencing a version to your sleepiness so maybe so the next time you go in when you sit down and you like are paying attention when you're observing yourself find the sleepiness notice when it arises like understand it like like really go into it don't avoid it don't try to stop it like you know it you're gonna experience sleepiness throughout your life no your sleepiness no its temperature no it's like does it have a vibration does that is it solid is it loose like what is it like really go into it and so that's what happened my next and the only times ever half of my life but I went in I like oh there it is and I was with it and I was with it and they're just like a cup I didn't fall asleep my attention was growing my energy was growing it dude like my whole inside of my body at one point I had to touch the ground because I was having that floating experience and I was like no it's not me floating it's the energy just like a rainforest inside my body flowing down flowing through it I'm like that's what's sleeping it like there's it's energy like there's there's energy like like the sloth is energy and so like being open to it not being afraid of it like really release something powerful utiful yeah right being with it and in your own energy yeah yeah yeah and my teaching partner likes to say that right action that nines aren't they aren't lazy and that they don't not do things they say he said they take they do a lot of actions just not the right one you know and they do all actions except the right one and so it's important to allow yourself to exactly like you said right get really in tune with your own experience yeah yeah and like not be afraid of sloth like there's there's so much wisdom in it if you turn towards it yes yes because it's what's true for you and yeah beautiful thank you so Jill can you say in it maybe a strength that you have but especially what's helped you grow as a nine but what what challenges or experiences well it's fundamentally trusting my own knowing instead of looking out there for somebody else's opinion it's been a difficult process but I'm I'm pretty good at it now beautiful and the other piece is that noticing when I'm have a should the shoulds come in I should be like this person I should be like that person I should be that whatever and just noticing the word as soon as I can and coming back to myself and the other thing is waiting for the knowing to come through because it doesn't come quickly like or had said you know I I have to it may take me that a day a day to come back to somebody or come back to myself and really understand something it it takes a while for the body for it for the knowing he comes through the body great right exactly and a strength what would you say is a big strength of yours a strength is I feel like my strength is my love mmm beautiful that's the holy idea yeah I believe beautiful yeah thank you wow that's a very beautiful and resonated with that very deeply I'm I'm a hospice physician and so I sit at the bedside a lot and to me there's a lot of right action than that yeah it's a it's the right thing to do for this culture to not deny death it's the right thing to do to offer simple home based non technological interventions in the home not in the hospital so much and that's what everyone wants so there's a lot of right action in it but in addition to that you just can't go to sleep when you're sitting next to someone who's dying Wow you just cannot let yourself if you do then you have to stop Wow so it's not a mmm it's not something I tell myself anymore it's just there you're a right action right I think when you're in right action there is no sleep you know no and the nines wonderful virtue is this ability to connect yeah this ability to put yourself in another person's shoes and I can't tell you how reassuring that is to the person that's facing this scary transition yeah there's an unselfishness you know in ways you yes and I share this with some absolutely wonderful colleagues and and what I took the the theme of love has been very strong for me because my original understanding of love was sort of the romantic understanding of love you know one person the fusion thing one and one makes one and you know I've known that but it lets it's wonderful and it's limited the sense of love that I've had with the people that I work with patients families and colleagues is quite beyond that kind of love it's a it's a true one as it's a wonders of all of us were a patient might have just died recently he said I'm not very religious but I believe in ripples well and that image was like just hit me like a ton of bricks is that ripples in what it's in the oneness that we all are living it's where each and individual wave but we really enter the oneness yeah so this that's a strength of the nine is to be able to be in that person's experience get it deeply yes Matt and yeah and and the right action taking it outside right beautiful thank you my tools for growth are pretty mundane I started because I know how to disassociate and check it out for my childhood my first tool was telling myself in every conversation I had for a year are you paying attention show up be 100% present and every single conversation that was my my tape are you are you present show up 100 cent like this right and then finally I breathed that and I got good at it and I can do that and then um and then at work for example I have a priorities I ask myself I tell myself ok what's your priority today and I look at my list and I'm I know I have to keep on myself about my priorities like mundane priorities and that's the kind of asking yourself what's what's more important to me or what's most important to me almost like a practice like you're saying remind yourself like what's more important to me what goes first I think that what goes first and yeah that simple can be very good and very important yes and then and then as far as the self forgetting peace I ask myself frequently ok what do you want what do you need and it's usually tangible sort of self prezi stuff food he you know I'm checking in with myself and so yeah getting good at that to the point of nausea oh god girl yeah becoming really self-absorbed and it's what not being in a relationship for last three years has been really freeing so it's given me a lot more energy to put into to myself and to work and to really putting the attention on myself like because I had an eye I got I I didn't merge with other in relationship I didn't I just went invisible yeah I was gonna say the way you described it it's almost like an erasing yourself like like disappearing yeah I kind of went on hmm I went on my own program but I went on like I didn't need attention like I didn't because I wasn't used to I didn't feel like I was used to getting it from my father I wasn't used to getting for my father so it was just perfectly comfortable for me so nice so just being in my own independence has been really nice cuz I get to put the spotlight on me for myself and and now I think that if I get into a relationship then it would be one plus one equals two yeah not one plus one equals I disappear and then there's one right because you've had this practice for a long time of putting the attention on you in all these different ways yeah and that's been really wonderful actually and I think that in my job I'd become a the three Nina sparked where I have a very public job so I I circulate to people I find out the pulse of the company what's with working I am emails go to eat are can be from me some pretty visible and I'm also it might have been in the last three years very productive like like this isn't about inertia I've been like on it getting it done nice and um and three is the arrow against which is the first place after doing your nine work that it's really helpful for anions to go going against the arrow becoming more being more on the spotlight you said you know kind of allowing yourself to be more aware of your identity and self promote a little more be on stage be visible and even enjoy that and being more active and getting things done and being seen for the good things that you do it sounds like you're doing a lot of that at your job yeah it's been great and it has it taken away from the nine diplomacy and then the nine like ever be happy getting along with everybody so that doesn't disappear with being really productive beautiful yeah and that's when you know you're using three well you know is you're tapping into that in a conscious way to to balance you out and expand yeah I really feel like my engines were on like like oh right I've kind of arrived at this really awesome place that's great yeah so thank you so much yes it's a lot of it Oren so what would you say or maybe some of your strengths although you've spoke you spoke to those before and what's how have you grown knowing with the knowledge that you're nine what challenges have you met a question that I've been asking since I was in my mid-twenties is about intuition mm-hmm and what is the role of intuition and how do you educate the intuition mm-hmm I like that question and somehow I ended up following a very strong eight into working in the art world and and part of that it was about facilitating conversations about art hmm and then realizing how if you create a safe space as the nine people tap into their intuition ah uh-huh so it was this kind of mirror for myself okay where am i when I'm looking at this painting when where am i when I'm walking around the museum where is that intuitive voice coming so there was been a lot of cultivation of my intuition beautiful which has been critical for kind of doing what I'm doing I've been in leadership position since I was 25 I ran my first organization then always asking myself a questions like why they choose me that is such a beautiful social 9 statement social nines get drafted into positions of leadership because of their natural ability in doing all the things you've said creating safe space for people and it in this unselfish way and there's often this thing of what why me you know and it's hard to see the really positive thing that you bring to that kind of job and I think being aware I mean the being a social line is a new awareness but being aware of the nine helped answer that question yeah and part of it is being able to tap into intuition and voice and how do I hold space how what does leadership mean to me right and it's another way it's a I like that intuition idea because what it in order to get in touch with one's intuition you need to be connected to your self and your higher self and leave room for that and so I love that that was it sounds like that was a way in for you to really ask the question of how do I can make a deep connection to myself so my own inner wisdom and knowing comes forth and like you're saying also providing that for other people at the same time like you think about doing it with art is that it is ambiguous there's so many ways you can look at it there's no wrong answer yes there's a lot of acceptance really actually the more far-out your statement is the more people think you're smart so in a very safe space to kind of explore that intuition yeah so I would say that is where knowing my type helped it's the struggle is still there I mean kind of trying to trust my intuition with my to-do-list doesn't go as well mm-hmm so the to-do list is like there's things that are fixed on it that I do not do and usually it's things that somebody else wants me to do their way so I have my to-do list and I have those things that are like though the ones that I do not want to go to and that's a struggle and and what I've learned about myself is that when I do that there's a deep sense of relief yeah right so it's like because it often is the right thing yes that's right there's I feel this kind of like and it's this interesting dance of like if you just wrote that damn board report you'd be so happy yes yes yes yeah it's a good it's to being in that struggle can be important too thank you that's really clear so Delia tell us what some of the things that you've worked on to grow well I'm thinking about in my work as a psychotherapist I do a lot of couples therapy it's something I really love and one of the hardest things at the beginning of my career was being with couples who were actively fighting with each other because I would just leave my body and it was so intense and hard for me to stay present but I've gotten to the point where it's really one of my favorite things to do because I can I can use my 9 abilities to like deeply mind-read basically I mean I am the Intuit what's going on in each person and and and I'm able to use that capacity to translate to the other to the partner so that there can be peace and there can be harmony and then I feel good I mean it is it's so gratifying to be able to be able to help people love each other I mean like what looked like such a beautiful spiritual you know I feel like I'm doing a mitzvah it's wonderful and and I've said often that my superpower is a therapist is like bring me your wound and I will love it [Laughter] yes the thing that I think about Nine's you know how the idea is that if if there's a 9 in the group that somehow everything kind of chunks into place like somebody's holding it down they may not be saying anything they may not be doing anything overt but in my you know I really believe in working with more and more with energetic fields that we're doing a lot more than we know we're doing yes and that we are in that I loved your story about the meditation retreat because I think that there's a way that we are kind of metabolizing something for the group at a really profound level that I used to believe when I would feel impacted by other people's feelings because I was you know losing touch with myself that I was just crazy you know there was just something wrong with me because I was feeling all these things and what you know so chaotic but being able actually to differentiate and to release so that I recognized that you know there is a certain degree of boundary I mean at one level we all are the oneness so there is no boundary but that when I can recognize oh I'm feeling that person's feeling then I can I can stop taking responsibility for it I can stop personalizing it I can stop identifying with it and then I can work with it right it's like permeability you know and you can get lost in that or overwhelmed by it or take it on when you shouldn't or like you're saying and learning to be a good therapist you can create a way of really really getting someone to the point where you can really really help them and hold them and often that's through love yes you know yeah yeah well this has been a beautiful panel I think everyone's saying something really profound and it all fits together but I just want to point out to you Steve I don't think anyone in here is asleep I think yeah I think I think you you you've been right in there at the eighth when keeping everyone on the edge of their chair even after lunch so any questions from yep yeah so you said really which was I'm a nine and I so connected with this experience of feeling like you get swept up into an experience because somebody else really wants that to be happening in your life okay great you seem to have a strong opinion about that and then later I become a little bit resentful because nobody consulted me about whether right at any time but I didn't realize it was not something I wanted until I was in it and so I'm sure if you share that experience and how you sort of extract yourself like because then I get into that and then my empathy kicks in and I'm like oh my god once this person would think that I'm totally into what's happening because I never said anything so I can't possibly take myself out of it now because that's unfair of me right cuz I didn't say something like it's really good right so I wonder if you have that experience where you find yourself whether it's professional or personal a relationship a project whatever it is and and how you have worked with waking up on the front end of that process of getting swept away into something that's how yeah yeah yeah getting carried along with someone else's agenda and then realizing down the road you didn't really agree to it and so what have you had that experience and how have you dealt with that I would say absolutely and and awareness and practice which is what you're doing right I mean you are noticing you are waking up to it and every time you do it it's another chance to practice doing it and so do you say something like but yes I mean speak up for yourself and you can do it diplomatically because you're an RA right so you know and you can do it emphatically because the other you know you can probably have an intuition about what the other person wants or needs from you or how you've got yourself into it like these story of like that's you know you can use that to write you can always say you know it didn't occur to me until just now that this isn't really working for me you know and again I think sometimes Nine's and I feel this way - is it - it's like we don't give ourselves permission to find a way to communicate what we need to communicate and not worry so much about how it's going to be received and sort of trust that hey maybe the person can handle it if you say hey you know I'm sorry I should have said something earlier it didn't occur to me until just now but I really I don't want to go forward with this you know but again that my friend Matt taught me that even feedback can feel like conflict for a nine you know and so again I think practice and and sort of having a lot of compassion for yourself that that something it may sound simple as I'm saying it but it's not easy you know yeah yeah other question yeah and make a unilateral decision on on something that I had no idea what it was about this has to be done by a certain date and I'll try to negotiate and I mean it sounds to me like in that situation your wife is going through a big process to get that you may not have seen to get to that strong position this position like I have to I can't give up this position you know and the mediator in me is I was like when there's a position there's an underlying interest so try to understand what the underlying interests are then you can shift the conversation down into the interest there's a lot of flexibility about like how do we get this interest met and then you can also ask where did I miss this like it like well how long is this thing going on did I do anything that causes you to like not include me in your decision-making process because I would like to be yeah because my guess is and you tell me if I'm right or wrong about this Matt is that there may be a way that there is something you doing that was pissing her off and she wasn't saying it for a long period of time and she gets to the point where okay now I just need to kind of put my foot down and say this isn't so again like he's saying there's a lot under ground that you made scene and I find what I've worked with nines and in couples counseling the nine will often say I really like to be asked questions right so if you can say get curious you know instead of maybe angry or reactive but sort of like well okay can you tell me how you came to this decision or how you're feeling about this issue or why do you why do you want to do it that Union you could say okay I'm open I'm open to hearing well you want to do it but can you tell me more and ask specific questions to evoke that underground story that may have been going on for a while that you may not know anything about because again she the anger may have been growing first she may not have noticed she was angry seven second she may have noticed she was angry but she didn't want to say anything or say anything so I think if you ask a lot of questions to try to open up the space kind of like Matt saying so what's really going on beneath how is she really feeling what might she have been angry about for and the good thing about you is you can welcome her anger oh yeah that'll be great for her and if you can say hey it sounds like you may have been mad about this for a while tell me more about that you know tell me the story of how this anger involved and and even if she says something that she didn't like that you did kind of get interested than that look what didn't you like about that you know the more you can sort of be open and curious and welcoming of her anger the better it might go Oh funny story about it 1809 we'rewe're out traveling with the Kings Canyon and maybe Nate we're gonna go here or gonna go here when we're gonna do this and I got into that my wife is walking around happy is not saying a word and finally I'm saying well okay it's time now it's three o'clock we're going to you cemani now and she turned around me he said hell no we're not leaving this place and anyway so he came vacation is all over and everybody's asking how this vacation with and I'm saying you wouldn't believe what Joanie said she came up one time and told me he'll know we are you know we're not leaving and she was so surprised that's all I could say about this [Laughter] from you that's great that's right and if you encourage your endeavor positive reinforcement for things like that that's gonna be a relief to her even if she can't do it my mother was an IED and and I it took a long time for me to understand that she kind of colluded in us ignoring her and I and I can kind of hear between what you're saying that that that's kind of how it works and but it was when I read that it was like she's been dead for a while and so you know it was like a little bit freeing to me because I certainly felt very guilty about my relationship with her but then she's like oh she was colluding and not bright yeah you know that's a good way to put it and I think we all do that to some degree I think nines tend to feel overlooked and unimportant in childhood and then like all of us we all do to ourselves what was done to us yeah and so then they like make themselves unimportant and they don't that they assume they'll be overlooked and so sometimes they don't speak up and yet it's a painful thing I think for some some Nine's anyone want to say anything on that on sort of maybe how you you participate in some on some level of not of making yourself unimportant or what to do about that well if the gift is harmony and then the distortion of that is blending in to the point of self forgetting and a defense mechanism which I did then it's really about the assertiveness and I think that it was you know it was her it was her place of comfort and BK as a part of the defense mechanism employed to protect herself right and the you know she wouldn't if she was in thinking of the assertiveness and standing up for herself and you know through the Enneagram week learn that thank you for mentioning comfort because I think nines are a lot about comfort and it can be you get it gets comfortable almost to be not you know important and yet on some level that's not right you know so I think one big thing that 9s can do to grow is actually make themselves uncomfortable right is moved toward the discomfort because often and and sometimes that's going on stage making yourself more important promoting yourself but I think often times they need our support to do that as well but but again we often can't know it if they don't know it and the whole name of this game is unconsciousness really yeah some a decides it somatostatin you act it or it like takes shape in the body yes or manifest and of course there's the volcano effect from right which is a little bit like what his wife does right so sometimes ninths will hold and hold and hold in and then they get really explosive which why which is why Matt's story about what happened yesterday is such a victory because instead of really exploding he found a way to get angry in a productive way and to actually get in touch with the anger but channel it into action which can be hard yep back here what makes you sad as to why doesn't I get some another person who loves anion can empathize deep I'll take that I think the the sense of aloneness or isolation is deeply saddening and I think that that that sense of you know the desire to merge being you know an impulse toward union with the divine but but that every you know I think all psychopathology comes from the idea that we feel like we're there's you know there's something wrong with us and and so that being cut off is extremely painful I also tend to get incredibly sad on behalf of collective things and that really you know it affects me at a very very deep level so that's the social nine in particular has an issue with sadness because there can be the move toward doing things for the group or others is a lot about belonging and so the whole nines are very much about belonging and that's part of what the Harmony is about and the connection and so when there's a sense of not belonging I think what most poignant for the social but all nines can feel the sense of again being separate being not connected not belonging to the to the group or humanity can feel can feel really difficult to things at the moment not being I I've started feeling like maybe I'm missing out on the relationship piece and and started to feel like not connected and to all the other people who have neat relationships and also definitely to the end justices in the world and the collective sadness that that there is in the world and and the unfairness around those yep question [Music] not in exactly the same way not in exactly the same way because comfort is a particular kind of protection that Nine's employ so I think it has a specifically important roll four nines Steve we're gonna say so I was gonna say something about the last question about sadness um because I felt that impact the panel in a certain way yeah we all felt that but um there was a kind of a heaviness around it and not knowing exactly how to respond I had the same feeling that mm I'm not sure and so I thought about the last time I was really sad and that was did all of you see did many of you see them mr. Rogers movie yes well in that movie there was a there was a little puppet you know I forget the name of the puppet and and his his assistant was saying to Dan Daniel was saying to her said what was her name again Lady Elaine lady aberlin Elaine you know how sometimes you make a mistake yeah yeah that's right down you know sometimes you make a mistake but sometimes well I kind of sometimes feel like I am a mistake oh when I heard those words I went deep into that feeling of not being okay so that's that's a driver of a lot of this behavior yeah the going to sleep to that feeling is probably almost deeper than the then the anger I think that's why it landed here in a kind of a yeah soft spot and that you know that's been there throughout my life I've had to deal with it on a number of occasions that not feeling worthy not feeling okay and a lot of compensation you know for for that feeling and developing a social role when you know the respect and all that stuff I think there's like I think a lot like all of us there is a failing of like there's something like there I'm not okay I'm not worthy but I think all the different types have a slightly different version of it and I think the nine version and correct me if I'm wrong experts it's something along the lines of they get the message when they're treated is not as important or overlooked or like their voice isn't heard or they're not there that there's something wrong with them that they're being ignored that they're being left out I had a somatic experience cuz intellectually I know I know that I'm important but in the Enneagram training that I had we were meant to do a physical gesture and to repeat my repeating was I'm I'm I matter I have a right to be here and when I did the physicality of it somatic I felt it in my cells and it was it was like a resident and I kind of welled up a little bit that I didn't intellectually have an issue with so it was it was kind of felt like it was built into my hardwiring that I didn't maybe matter I have a right to be here you know in this space which was a huge growth jump and then I I was like okay got it I do peeling it deep interesting yeah yeah I think we have time for one more yep right so after going to three and getting more in touch with identity being more recognized being more active in the world going back to nine integrating that and then when you go to six which is more stressful it's a lot about saying no and going against sixes or contrarians essentially and so 9s being able to kind of say no I'm not going to do that to kind of go against to make boundaries anything else you would add to that anybody met I took one of those online surveys recently and this was about my philosophical nature and it came back as a skeptic and I was like oh yeah that's sort of like the this the the being a healthy skepticism can be really helpful for an EIN who tends to want to merge and connect right like to the unconscious merging and agreeing with and going along with some skepticism and say mmm maybe that's not for me maybe I don't really want to be doing this yes to inject some doubt like you know because 9s tend to just go right in and merge and connect with you know it's like I can understand what you see and what you see and I want to you know they're very democratic and egalitarian like we've heard but instead of just sort of going with the flow or connecting with everyone just wait a minute is that really something I want to do what might be the pitfalls here might be the problems what might be the dangers for me you know to the way sick good sixes can do kind of analyze the situation a bit more and and be able to take a step back and say no and and be a little bit more self protected and think more about your own safety instead of just sort of being so open to merger with so many different experiences and people yeah okay so I think this might be a good place to stop yes you are saying just a couple of comments first for those of us how many a couple of questions I want to quickly ask for how many people is this the first time you've witnessed any grand panels so a great many all right so my sense I'll speak for myself is that the level of learning that is taking place for me right now is just extraordinary and I sense this rapt attention in the room so we had the first panel now we have a second panel to compare the first one to and I noticed particularly many people did the difference in the energies between yeah exactly so that's very strong [Music] you

Channel: NewSchoolCommonweal

Views: 74,237

Rating: 4.8719316 out of 5

Keywords: TNS, enneagram, type 9, archetypal, psychology, Beatrice Chestnut, Michael Lerner, workshop, panel, sub-type, Helen Palmer

Id: VJ3nZIXKvqc

Length: 86min 45sec (5205 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 01 2019