Baucham, Morales, Sproul and Sproul Jr.: Questions & Answers

well we have a lot of questions to be able to move through here and feel free though for for several of you to answer and chime in and augment and color and different aspects of this just a quick question here as we start start off and just asking about books and authors that you are reading particularly recognizing the place of the Bible in spiritual formation what books or authors are currently informing your love for Christ and your walk of discipleship so Michael I really enjoy reading a scholar named Desmond Alexander and he really is doing wonderful work in biblical theology a lot of what you've heard today tracing through Adam all the way to the new Adam and all of his works so far really just feed my love for Christ and I might also add that we have the privilege of hosting him here soon for the doctorate of ministry program he'll be teaching the class and we're just excited for him to give this good theology and the underpinning for its solid biblical preaching so but he is someone who just makes scripture come alive so he's an author that I would certainly recommend for myself lately it's been Graham Goldsworthy and and Dennis Johnson have been very helpful I offer two names when I've been doing some reading on biblical theology and as someone other than me has quipped in that particular area boss is boss so there any girl hardest boss and very blessed to be doing so the other is actually a at this point a a modern classic one of my classes at Reformation Bible College actually our doctrine a man class we're reading together through desiring God by John Piper and yeah we're getting a good shout out there for dr. Piper and we're all being blessed with his wisdom there Oh Merc Kelly Homer Kelly could you expand on that a little bit he wrote the golfing machine he he had the most in-depth study of the mechanics and physics of the golf swing ever written yes there will be a new Homer Kelly coming soon and you find your devotional life enhanced on the golf course I didn't hear him what do you say he said you find your devotional life enhanced by this but I think he's implying that you're devoted to something wrong are see let me come back to you now with this question it's a question of reflection if you could restart your ministry over again is there anything you would do differently how much time do you have probably the thing I do most differently was get in the pool but a whole lot earlier in my life than I did I was ordained it originally to the teaching ministry not to the pulpit ministry that came much later but that's been the joy of my life to be able to be in this pulpit here Saint anger that's the main thing I'd do differently probably I would speak to that though I'm not as old as some others when I look back at the early years and opportunities that I had to teach there's a great deal of embarrassment not over any of the things that I believed I think that when I first started like a lot of people I spent a farm much too much time talking about and speaking to the errors of those that were farthest away from me that the things that I was right about were things that I was proud of and I'm speaking into people who share the same convictions with me about these people that are out there and that's really a waste of time you know I feel like first what I need to do is be thinking about my sins not the sins of broader evangelicalism and in terms of my own spiritual growth but in the end I also think that's what we need to be teaching that we need to be speaking about our weaknesses and you know one of those is the very pride that leads us to talking bad about other people Ephraim Baca boy I would I would change much and I would I would change much of the time that I spent in training and the places that I received that training I've found that much of the time that I've spent since my training has been and everything to backfill and I I would be a much better steward of that time as it relates to where and with whom I study I don't have a lot of the history under my belt and experience but I pastored for about four years in Northeast Tennessee and then I've been associate pastor but I've been really doing a lot of teaching while being associated pastor but when I look back to those former years so what I've one of the things that I've learned is and then I wish I could go back and change is to be in the homes more always by God's grace loved the word and ministering the word but I've come to see now by experience of the way that the word is applied in the homes you just there's no escaping the role of the shepherd and really to be a shepherd and and to be there among the flock and with the people even changes the way they received the word from the pulpit and so that is something I've learned from great pastors that the Lord has brought in my life since then and that I would certainly strive to do if the Lord brought me back and to the pastor question that I'm gonna put out there and you'll understand after I ask it why I'm just gonna put this out there and whoever wants to step up to the plate can take a swing if the state or federal government passed a law requiring you to officiate and recognize same-sex marriages how would you respond No and perhaps to expand on that why would you there's a an ancient tradition that is illustrated in the book of Acts that holds that Christians have an obligation to obey those and authority over them until those in authority over them require them to do what God clearly forbids or forbid them to do what God clearly commands and that clearly there's important you can't you can't not like it decide it's not wise and then stand your ground like Martin Luther and not do it just because it doesn't look like the best choice it's got to be a clear violation of the word of God where it gets tricky and fuzzy is when the state claims for itself a level of authority where it doesn't belong that is I would argue that if the state required that I preach from the book of first Timothy then I might just have a duty to disobey not because God requires me not to preach from first Timothy but that God requires me to recognize the lordship of Christ over that pulpit and not the lordship of the federal government I think there's a tension and I talked to people on both sides of the issue I think that that as reformed people as often Scottish people we are too ready to draw our swords when we should be humbly going to Caesar and say you tied me to that stake I'm ready to go on the other hand we also are the other way where we are willing to allow the state to intrude where it doesn't belong so I think that these kinds of questions involve a great deal of wisdom the example that you give there makes it easy I think but there are others other places that are far more likely to happen that we we are facing I will say this in Canada if I understand the Canadian law correctly even in the pulpit if you preach that homosexuality is a sin you can be charged with the crime if that's true I don't know for sure if that's exactly how it's been worded but if that's true then I would I don't understand why there isn't weekly national homosexuality is a sin week in those pulpits I would expect every evangelical to stand up and preach the text preach it faithfully preached the gospel and say to the state you come and get me because I'm preaching the word and voting once Texas secedes obviously this won't be an issue right you know that yeah I once I could see the plan is more complicated than that we have to get we have to get you have an aperi to be the President of the United States so that he goes to Washington and then it was a seat because he already said I think if that happened bodis response would be call the ambulance this next question involves a family split but a split over doctrine what is the best approach of a family that is split and doctrine between the husband and wife where young children are involved in order to maintain that cohesive family unit and they give the example of Roma Catholicism and reformed theology what would be your Pastoral Council to that family that has that tension within it wives be subject to your own husband's so that even if any of them disobedient to the word they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives that would be mine that would be my admonition and the rest of that passage goes on to talk about Sara and how she obeyed Abraham and I think significantly speaking about her there in Genesis chapter 20 which is beyond just like I think this might be a bad decision on his part but the crux of the matter is faith it's just don't have any fear we we have to believe that doing what God says that we're to do and the way that God says that were to do it puts us in a position where God will vindicate himself and we don't have to vindicate ourselves on his behalf you mentioned you didn't say who was who here where was the husband was Catholic and the wife wasn't there whatever cause that could get really really complicated because our C's already given us the principal we must obey authorities over us and the less they can manage to do something god forbids or forbids us from doing something God command and if you have a situation there where the husband say is Roman Catholic and he requires his wife and children to go to the Roman Catholic Church I would say would be the duty of the wife to disobey him because he was trying to force her to go to an apostate body and the children and I think she can't do that it's just not allowed to do that and that would be what put the severe strain on the marriage and if she had the disobey she should still be a loving kind generally submissive wife and follow the practical advice that we've already heard but this is a matter of conscience here how in a world I mean like I could not in good conscience ever participate in Roman Catholic Mass even if it was my best friend's wedding and it was a nuptial match I couldn't do it why because I understand the theology of it most people don't and they go in there they don't even know what's going on but if you understand the theology of what's going on there and participate in it gracious you know to me I would be denying the faith I would be denying the gospel if I went in there so or like a particular act of blasphemy yeah could you help us to understand how a sinner who is dead in sins and trespasses and wholly incapable of exercising saving faith in Christ is nevertheless held accountable for his unwillingness to repent and believe which faith and repentance he is unable of his own to exercise or how can God judge someone as guilty for that which they are inherently incapable of performing perhaps Paul's answer is the most fitting and his response is simply who are you O man to shake a fist at God I think that's the first humbling answer but then we move beyond that I think and we can explain that while those of us who are saved it's by the mercy of God that doesn't mean that those of us who are guilty before we're saved or if we're not saved at all that we're not accountable and responsible to God we are of course guilty under Adam's sin but then we also exasperate that guilt multiplying our own sins and the fact that God doesn't decide to apply the blood of Christ to wash them away doesn't by any means mean that we are suddenly not accountable and I think doctors role your story of I think being a professor and giving grace until grace is expected is probably the classic story not to illustrate that there's also story that God came down if God would come to me and say I want you to cut the grass this afternoon and if you don't I'm going to punish you because you're obligated to do what I came here to do and I say yes Lord and he said no you see that big pit over there and I said yes it says we stay out of that pit because if you go in the pit you're not gonna be able to get out and you're not gonna better get the job done I gave okay so as soon as the Lord leaves I went over and jump in the pit and then he comes back and he says why didn't you cut the grass so it's not how you expect me to cut the grass whatever this bit I mean that's that's a contemporary version of the fall is that we are in a state of moral inability because of our being unified with our Father Adam and we fell in Adam and that we are therefore responsible for our own moral inability to come so that once we are in sin and dead in sin God owes us nothing except judgment and anything we get apart from judgment is sheer grace I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy if God came to me and the grass wasn't cut if he punished me I would have to say I have every right to be punished if he said if he pardoned me it would be pure grace but he doesn't know it to me the minute we think that God owes us grace we no longer understand what grace is because by definition it's not owed it's free and voluntary unmerited kindness before we before we come to you dr. Phil jr. how many of you have heard or haven't heard dr. Sproles illustration of the the classroom experience and grace and justice have not heard I've not heard okay could you tell us I don't know what you're talking oh you mean from holiness and justice but that's true yes oh you wanted to go over that real fast that was when I was teaching this was back in 1966 I was teaching at a college that was the professor of Bible I had 250 freshman students and in the freshman class taking introduction in Old Testament at first that class I went over the syllabus and I said we're going to have three short papers five to eight pages in the course of the semester first ones due October 1st second one of ever first certainly December first and I said unless you're there's a death of the immediate family or you're confined to the infirmary for illness if you're not in if it's not on my desk by 12 o'clock on the first you get an F for that portion of the grade does everybody understand yes so October the first came 225 students came in with their paper 25 didn't and they were standing there terrified and they said old doctors well we failed to make the adjustment to college and we didn't budget our time please don't give us an F and I said okay I'll give you two more days to get your paper done but don't ever do this again oh no we want November came along and two hundred students came in with their paper and fifty didn't have them and I said worship papers and they said I was mid it was midterm Homecoming weekend and we had all these other things do for other classes or honor we're so sorry please please forgive us and let us have another chance and I said okay this is the last time and they started the sink spontaneously I'll never forget it we love you prom Sproule oh yes we do and I was mr. popularity on the faculty and that popularity lasted until the 1st of December when on the first of December came 150 students come with their paper and 100 don't and I looked out and I said I said where are these papers and this one stood on there forget he was going back a book he said well don't worry about it prof will have it for in a couple days mr. Johnson you don't have your paper and he said no and I took out the black book and I wrote F I never sis you and cry immediately and they started with one voice that's not fair I said what did you say he said I said that's not fair I said Oh Johnson it's justice that you want he said yes I said okay don't I recall that you were not on time in November on November 1st with your paper ace that's right I said ok I'm gonna give you justice I'm gonna go back and change your grade there to an F I said ok now who else wants justice and nobody volunteered see what happens is when we're first receive grace were overwhelmed with appreciation we are amazed by grace the second time we tend to take it for granted by the third time we demand it and the moment we think that God owes us grace as I said a moment ago that should be a bell going off in our head to saying I'm not thinking about grace anymore because God never owes me grace they never owe you grace either but that that was a real event that wasn't just a an illustration going back to Michaels answer on the question I don't wanted to give a little bit more of the actual text here because it's a faster than anything I love when I get that question because it's one of very few questions that I receive that are directly asked by sin Scripture take that question and is that not a precise paraphrase of what Paul says he says what shall we say then is there unrighteousness in God this is after Jacob I have loved Esau I've hated is there unrighteousness in God certainly not for he says to Moses I will have mercy on whom ever I will have mercy and I'll have compassion on whom over I have compassion so then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs but of God who shows mercy for the scripture says to the Pharaoh for this very purpose I've raised you up that I may show my power in you and that my name may be declared in all the earth therefore he has mercy on whom He wills and whom He wills he hardens that's what raises the question so Paul gives us the question you will say to me then why does he still find fault isn't that what you asked why does he still find fault for who has resisted his will he is the lord of space and time he controls all things have we we had to have a chance at the beginning who could resist his will fascinating thing about God the answer is Michael pointed out is it's really not an answer God's answer is I'm God okay you belong to me I can do with you what I will your clay I am a Potter and my goal my desire is to manifest my glory I will share it with no other again this is what I was trying to say this morning as well if this is something you cannot swallow then you do not know the Living God this is who he is now doesn't make it easy to swallow and God is gracious and slow to anger but you've got to face the fact that this is what it says now I don't want to ever encourage people to do what I call dueling verses with there are many and friends where we say what about this text and they say what about that text and we see who builds the bigger pile fastest but I will say if you're ever gonna deal with your Arminian friend take them here to this text Romans chapter 9 and ask them please please help me understand how any of this makes any sense in the way you understand things stay with this text and explain it to me from your perspective I had friends who transferred into our church in Virginia after they went there Church was committed to expositional preaching their pastor preached in the book of Romans they started in Romans 1 they meant Thrones two they went all the way through to Romans 7 and they showed up the next week and the pastor said turn in your Bibles to Romans chapter 12 you can't do it at least he knew that why do sinners suffer for eternity while Christ in his substitutionary atonement did not suffer for eternity if Christ is of infinite value if he suffers the wrath of God for one second his suffering is of infinite value and and and here's the the down part about how is that if a sinner suffers eternity in hell and eternity never ends there's no way that a fraternity keeps going and going and going and going and going and going that that sinner can ever suffer infinitely he can never fully satisfy the debt he owes God even with an eternity in Hell does that make sense I mean because but we don't really we always as human beings stand on the side of our fellow human beings if their impending sinners and were penitent sinners at least we're both sinners we have that in common we can understand our brother or our fellow person who's not a spiritual brother and say there but for the grace of God go I but until we're glorified in heaven we're never going to fully identify with the glory of God we're always going to be inclined to have our sympathy with our fellow suffering human beings rather than have any real delight in the vindication of it's holiness she was the most sanctified person in this world is still much closer to Adolf Hitler than he is to Jesus in terms of his morality that's what we don't get that vast gap in holiness between who God is and who I am and we don't understand the gravity of our sin and if the Spirit of God were to reveal the full gravity of my sin to me tonight I would die I couldn't handle it fortunately he's gracious and slowly brings me to conformity to the image of Christ and in the meantime I'm still in sin and so I the one thing I I don't want to I can't stand the thought of anybody being in hell forever except for one person me I know that if I heard that verdict and God said to me you go to hell forever I would be crushed I would be very unhappy but I could not say that's not fair I know that I couldn't do it and that's why nothing less than the perfect sacrifice of one whose person is of infinite value availed for me without it I've got nothing and this is why I live I can't stand it with my friends that aren't Christians and I know their destiny is hell if they don't come to Christ I never I've never been able to get over the get to ask that it's a horrible thought a couple of weeks ago in my great works class we were talking as I mentioned about Parmenides and Heraclitus and my son whose freshman RBC asked this deeply and profoundly astute question that just gave me this unbelievable thrill and I wanted to share it with him and I was trying to communicate to him same son yuge that question was just perfect it was just wonderful is so awesome I went to his grandfather and said you wouldn't believe what Campbell asked me today class that was so great I was so excited about and anacs I wanted him to have the experience that I had when I asked him that question when I was a younger man I remember asking my father that question and I remember how highly he praised me for asking that question so let me pass that on whoever asked that question it's a wonderful question wonderful answer I only want to add one potential addition and maybe one reiteration of the principle that the suffering of Jesus is of infinite value because of the Incarnation because this is God and man together and if you want to if you want to turn the whole thing into math that's how you get your equal over equal which equals one okay I mean infinite over infinite which equals one absolutely true that said one of the great horrors about hell that we don't often think about is this one when a person goes to hell they go to hell as a person and when they go to hell is a person they go to hell as a person without the grace of God they don't go saying to God well that's fair they go weeping gnashing their teeth grumbling complaining they continue to offend the holy and righteous God forever they continue to sin and store up wrath forever so there's no one in Hell still trying to pay off the first cookie out of the cookie jar alone they are still trying to do that because that's wrong but ever since then they've been stealing cookies from the cookie jar and every other vile and heinous sin imaginable to man the question of definition the word orthodoxy is mentioned in different contexts some confusion perhaps over the word orthodoxy what is the basic meaning of that word well orthodoxy refers to historic Christianity we have Creed's as was mentioned this morning Deuteronomy the Lord our God the Lord is one and we hear the Apostles speaking of the faith and so doctrine was always embodied as a system of theology and that found expression through the Apostles Creed Nicene Creed and Christian orthodoxy was basically the true church that embraced these biblical doctrines and primarily to distinguish themselves from all of the heretics that were running around saying we're part of the church but you know Christ isn't truly God or he wasn't truly man that the ascetics you only appeared as a man and so the church was always quick to establish its confessions it's creats and this is what is orthodox this is what is the right way and biblical teaching how should we deal biblically with separation from a professing Christian who was outwardly involved in sin and part of the Covenant community how should we deal biblically was separating from a profession professing Christian who was outwardly involved in sin and yet part of the covenant community as he said how should the church do it because I think we go to Matthew 18 and that's what that's what church discipline is about a person who's part of the covenant community involved in outward known sin is confronted personally and then confronted with witnesses and then confronted by the church and then excluded from the church and that's a person with whom we don't even eat and and so there is a unning and an exclusion I mean that that's part of what sets the church apart but if I is an individual know about somebody that's in gross meanness and in the church I don't go through those steps and I become a vigilante disciplinarian no no no no no I don't say I'm not gonna have dinner with you I'm not gonna be fellowship with you I'm not going to carry out the penalties of excommunication before that person has been excommunicated ducks roll is there a great gulf or a small stream between Wesley and Calvin between Wesley and Calvin in what regard theologically theologically probably reflecting earlier on our discussion of Romans tonight listen Wesley in my opinion was a true Christian person a regenerate man he believed in the essentials of the Christian faith in terms of Christology in terms of the doctrine of justification by faith alone and so they he had more and more in common with him with Calvin than he had differences however the doctrines of grace for those who affirm them those that deny them are not the minor principles we're talking about the character of God the doctrine of grace how a person is saved and now you're talking about theological differences that are extremely wide and extremely important I don't think that they are essential for Christian belief for salvation I don't think you have to believe in the doctrine of Reformation doctrine the biblical doctrine of election to be saved and I don't think a church has to believe in the biblical doctrine of election to be a true church they aren't this is not a doctrine that we would say that is of the SC the essence but it is a doctrine of the bene SE the well-being of the church and the well-being of the Christian and the Christian who's trying to work out his his scientific ation who distances himself from the sweetness of the doctrines of grace is in a perilous perilous journey and some who are persistent in their repudiation of the doctrine of grace do so at their everlasting peril I mean it may be in the final analysis that what we have here is a heart that is simply hostile towards the majesty of God and towards his sovereignty and that could be you know like I when people ask me come on minions be saved I say oh yes barely if they're true or minions yeah but you know they may not even hold to what our minion is and the necessary truths that our minions do hold really in their heart of hearts because they're so hostile to these doctrines I mean while I hear our minion preachers saying that the doctrine of election is a doctrine from hell and it's the doctrine of demons who you know I'm hearing the Pharisees charging Jesus with casting not Satan by Satan and he say watch yourself boys you know they're coming awfully close and when I hear guys like talk like that like Jimmy Swaggart you know because of the doctrine of demons and everything I worry about him about the state of his soul when he talks like that when this hostility reaches such great proportion but I think most true Christians who are not reformed in their doctrine are not reformed because they really have all struggled honestly they're afraid that the doctrine of election casts a shadow on the justice and righteousness of God they're afraid that somehow the true humanity of people is denied you know they're working with false promises and we understand it but you don't have to be perfect in your theology to get into the kingdom of God you got to believe in the it's not a centrist but it's an attitude that we have to watch out for here I I think Chris there's a temptation in the church for us to just be binary on these kind of questions and we can err on either side we can say well this is not in the Apostles Creed and therefore not only does it not matter we should never talk about it we should only talk about the essentials then there are those who are binary on the other side saying any error is Dan heresy and if you're wrong you're out what's interesting about the question is it contrasts across time and we actually have a powerful historical illustration and what dr. Sproul is saying if we connect with one of those guys Wesley and Whitfield have in their own lies that the outworking and I think a certian quid inappropriate response to this issue if you know the two of them worked very closely together in the whole Methodist movement they worked together very well in the great revival but eventually Wesley ended up preaching a sermon that was not quite as bad as Jimmy Swaggart but it was rather strongly condemned natori the biblical doctrine of election Whitfield responded with one of the actual best historical arguments against the Arminian position it's short it's well written it's I mean it's easy to read and it's just really powerful Wesley's response assuming what feels response to Wesley was just magnificent and gracious but it was strong and in that strength many of Wesley's what feels followers pushed even harder such that when Wesley died they came to him and they said dr. Whitfield do you think you will see Wesley in heaven and Whitfield who knew these guys and knew these these these young fender puppies fire-breathing little dragons said no I don't think I will and they got their hopes up and they're ready to give each other high fives and Tilly said I don't think I'll see him in heaven I think he'll be far too close to the throne of glory from where I'll be for me to be able to see it and you know I think we need to affirm that these errors are exceedingly serious errors just like our weaknesses and our errors are exceedingly serious weaknesses and errors voting you've spoken and written about Krishna you're committed home educating family in in the circles that you have ministered in what would you say to parents who are trying to decide between the choice of homeschooling versus raining they're believing students into the public school system and they're thereby with their Christian faith being a witness and influence in the public education world I think they're making a categorical error and what I mean by that is on the one side where what all of a sudden we went from a discussion about education which is discipleship to a discussion about evangelism in spite of negative discipleship and so if we've got two completely separate categories there the question is should I on the one hand give my child an education that acknowledges Christ's lordship that seeks to point them toward Christ that seeks to form in them truths that bring glory and honor and a worship to Christ you see now we haven't discussion about one category and then you completely jump to another category and say or should I have my child who is a believer go have influence on other people who are over here we were talking about education discipleship I mean you completely move to a different category so what we got to do is we got to talk about those things properly so on the one hand let's talk about education and discipleship over here and then education and discipleship over there ask me if if one of those is appropriate the other is not that becomes a very easy question to answer which is why I think people ask it that way because we know that if we ask the question about the same category should I give my childhood education that acknowledges Christ's lordship points them to Christ's lordship seeks to form these truths in their life or should I give them something other than that that is so easy to answer so when somebody asked me that question that way they're telling me that they don't want to answer the most important question and they created a false a false argument between two separate categories that are being held out in in competition against one another when they are absolutely not because if they asked me should I give my child a Christ honoring education or should I have my child being influenced on people who are unbelievers yes why do we assume that the only way a child can have an impact and influence on unbelievers is if they give up on Christ honoring Christ and education so I think there's a categorical error in the question one of the great problems we face here is the economic issue where you have to pay for tuition in the Christian school or you can go to the government school for free now the biggest illusion there is sending your kids the government school is free so most costly thing you could ever do you know I mean the first question you have to ask is how important are my children to me and to the kingdom of God and and I and also the other thing if people don't understand is the public schools are not today what they were 50 years ago 20 years ago I mean it used to be that the local community had a lot to say about it and and there wasn't this built-in hostility to the truths of the Christian faith but the government schools today are manifestly opposed to all things Christian I mean if you're not reading a paper and see what happens if you try to bear witness to Christ in the Publix classroom then you're just you know I don't know where you're living or what you're reading it but how in the world you would turn your children over to a pagan establishment for their instruction if you really value the the faith and your children's soul at all it's just amazing to me I know that that it really gets people fired up and angry when I say that but how else what else can you say I mean the choice is so simple isn't it if you really care about the psycho ship and training of your children many times Jesus says if you love me you will obey me two questions really asking similar things here what does obey really mean in our lives as Christians and then if we trust in Christ as our Savior how do we avoid feeling guilty or doubting our own salvation and then just question mark but presumably meaning when we disobey how do we deal with those feelings of guilt or doubt about our own salvation if Christ indeed tells us if you love me you will obey me the simple answer is faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God if you're struggling with doubt get in the book and get in it and get in it and get in it because it's there through the word that the spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God I don't know any shortcuts to assurance of salvation apart from getting in the Word of God well I'll give one that I learned from you yeah I think it's very helpful to people it's been helpful to me you understand that that on the one hand this this warning can be very helpful one of the things that we jump to and we're facing with the problem of assurance is we think that the solution is to make sure everybody's assured when there may be people that need to not be assured there may be people that need to be called to embrace work of Christ that's all the people do need to be called to embrace the work of Christ whether they're saved or not so we need to start with the gospel now then we need to understand that the that the strategy of the devil his his his wheelhouse if you will is accusation so even when you do open up your Bible and you even come to this text and the devil says see see you don't obey you know her Tobit you think you obey have you seen you lately and one of the ironies is at some level the Holy Spirit is doing the same thing because when we are in Christ when we are growing in grace when the Holy Spirit isn't working us what do we see more of but our own sin it is our sinfulness that makes us blind to how sinful we are it is sanctification which makes us understand how sinful we are that's why it isn't there a sense in which from a pastoral perspective the person you worry about is not the one who feels guilt but the one who doesn't right the one who thinks that they are obeying and thinks that they are just fine because of how wonderfully obedient they're being see that's the one as a pastor that that get you know it's going to keep me on my face the other person who's seeing their own and continuing to come back to the cross again and again they've got that fact that right focused but the person who thinks you know they've got their checklist of the stuff that they're doing and and not worried first of all their checklist is too small and and secondly their standard is too low the shortcut I wanted to get to was this dr. stroble will ask a person in this in this situation now do you love God with all your heart with all your mind with all your strength with all your salt and even even the most check listy person out there is gonna have to surveillance them now I don't think that's me okay okay well the next question is do you love him enough not as much as you want to what's that do you love them as much as you want do you love them as much as you ought to well no I don't guess I do love them as much as I have to and then they're starting to get thinking you know they've met dr. gerson instead of dr. Sproul their assurance is shrinking faster than they would like and the last question is do you love them at all one of the blessings of a of a robust understanding of our own depravity is that it allows you to see the work of God in you because without the spirit at work in my life I would have no love for him at all so if I have some love for him that's evidence that the Spirit is at work in me that's the spirit speaking to me and in that love I do as the question goes especially I do cling to his provision and rest in that and not my obedience and from that out of that that indicative of God saying Who I am comes the imperative of how I learned to live my life in obedience to his law thank you all so much this afternoon let's think our panelists today you

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Published: Fri May 22 2015