Are Seventh Day Adventist Really a Cult? With Doug Batchelor

[Music] [Music] hi friends pastor doug batchelor here you know periodically someone will uh email me and they'll draw my attention to a youtube where people are saying something uh negative and critical about seventh day adventist and there's a lot of misinformation out there on the internet you realize anybody can say anything and some people watch these programs and they're easily persuaded but you know i thought it would be maybe helpful if i took one of these and i went through point by point some of the criticisms that people have where they're saying that seventh-day adventists are a cult or you need to watch out for seventh-day adventists i appreciate this one that was produced by the masters seminary we're gonna play it for you i'm gonna pause it along the way i like it because they basically broke the criticisms down into three easy to understand points and so just be with me now let me just tell you i am a seventh-day adventist christian i have not always been i used to go to church on sunday and i attended other denominations when i continued to read the bible and i learned the bible truth i became a seventh-day adventist nobody in my family was a seventh-day adventist i realized that it might make me unpopular in some circles but i wanted to go by the scriptures so with that little introduction i'd like to get into this video i'll just play segments of it i'll stop it along the way and i'll do my best to be fair and let them make their points hi i'm jamie jackson with the master of seminary and joining me right now is dr nate bruce it's dr bruce thanks so much for joining me absolutely i want to talk about uh seventh day adventism how should we as believers view that denomination well even the word denomination is one that raises questions in the minds of some evangelicals should seventh-day adventism be considered a denomination okay i gotta pause right there because they're saying now first of all this is dr nathan booznitz and he is a teacher at the masters seminary in los angeles california we've never met seems like a nice enough gentleman be happy to talk to him be happy to debate him on some of these issues publicly if he was interested but he said that seventh-day adventists should not even be considered a denomination well i think that that was maybe a little over the top because the word denomination simply means it's the way of naming or classifying things uh all denominations need a name to identify them to register to show they're separate to put a name on the building to say something the adventist cannot be a denomination is like saying that the one dollar bill is telling the five dollar bill you cannot be a denomination well they're both denominations they're named they're classified and so yes we can be classified historically it's been regarded as a cult though there are some in more recent decades who want to have more of an open attitude towards adventists i'm talking about an evangelical perspective so so the question is one that has been raised all right so they're basically saying that there's disagreement among evangelicals about whether or not seventh-day adventists should be classified as a cult a number of years ago donald barnhouse and walter martin wrote a book they worked together in a book i think martin principally wrote the book called kingdom of the cults and the conclusion of that book was seventh-day adventists are not to be categorized as a cult historically the adventist movement actually started in the early 19th century in the 1800s there was a man named william miller william miller believed through his study of scripture that he had figured out when jesus was going to come back he said jesus was going to return sometime between march 21 1843 and march 21st 1844. the lord jesus did not return and so he adjusted his date and said no it's going to be october 22nd 1844. his followers were known as the millerites and when jesus didn't come back on that date they experienced what they call the great disappointment and obviously miller's calculations his predictions did not come true i just want to what he's saying is correct right now william miller who is a baptist preacher he did do some incredible prophetic bible study he came to the date of 1844 when he studied the prophecies in daniel chapter eight and it said the sanctuary would be cleansed he thought that meant that the earth was the sanctuary to be cleansed by fire even though there's really nothing in the bible that says that the earth was to be considered the sanctuary seventh the adventists were not organized as a denomination until 1863. so i just want everyone to have a picture of the span that took place between the great disappointment in 1844 and the organization of the seventh-day adventist as a denomination in about 1863. most people realized that his calculations had been wrong but there was a small group who said wait a second maybe his calculations aren't wrong maybe it's just the event he associated with his calculations that is wrong the early seventh-day adventists came up with the doctrine of what they call christ's heavenly work of atonement what they say is that on october 22nd 1844 jesus went from the the holy place in the heavenly sanctuary into the holy of holies to continue a second work of atonement in heaven something they call a work of investigative judgment it's not seventh-day adventists that manufactured the teaching that christ is still ministering in the heavenly temple and yes we do believe that the work of heavenly ministry of jesus is still going on this is a bible teaching and well i should i should let him continue with what he's saying here and give people the whole picture so that's how the whole movement got started and a young woman named ellen harmon later married ellen g white is her married name she began to receive visions through these visions that she received supposedly she gave really the the basis to the seventh-day adventist movement so let's talk about uh the sabbath because obviously they meet on saturday but they have a wrong view of what the sabbath is biblically speaking well yeah i would say that there's really three big problems with seventh-day adventist doctrine three major reasons why evangelicals should be very concerned and why they shouldn't just embrace adventism as a denomination it's it's not a denomination it's something that really is outside of evangelical biblical christianity three reasons why number one would be that they do have in spite of some of the statements that they make about salvation being by grace they really do have a legalistic understanding of the gospel and that's seen in their insistence that christians observe the sabbath and that christians observe certain dietary laws out of leviticus 11 and so on all right are are we legalists why is he saying we're legalists because he says we insist that people keep the sabbath is it seventh-day adventists that create the ten commandments or is god commanding are these the ten recommendations if seventh-day adventists were telling people they should turn from their sins stop killing stop lying stop committing adultery are you then categorized as a legalist for doing that we did not write the ten commandments this is a bible teaching that we are to encourage people to turn from sin we just believe that you need to put the sabbath truth in the same category as the other ten commandments it's right in the middle of the ten commandments it begins with the word remember and so do you become a cult because you believe in all ten commandments instead of just nine or eight commandments um and then he goes on to say that uh well we're legalists we believe in righteousness by faith that we're saved by grace if you look for instance in baptismal vow number three i accept the death of jesus christ on calvary as the atonian sacrifice for my sins and believe that through faith in his shed blood i am saved from sin and its penalty so this is our official teaching by the way you'll notice that dr booznet in his comments he never opens up any book he never quotes from any document he sits in front of a sign of master seminary and he basically shoots from the hip our official teachings make it very clear we do believe in salvation by faith but we also believe that jesus said people need to turn from their sins christ began teaching repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand john the baptist repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand the apostles repent and be baptized repent of your sins what a sin transgression of god's law so if you're still part of a church that's teaching the 10 commandments you're a legalist but i'll get to that a little more in just a minute so we'll carry on the apostle paul addresses those issues in colossians 2 16-17 makes it very clear that as christians as those who are no longer bound by the old covenant because we are under the new covenant in christ that we're not bound to observe the sabbath or observe dietary laws the rest of the new testament really underscores the fact that believers met on the first day of the week the day of christ's resurrection okay well he mentioned colossians chapter 2 verse 13 let's read that and find out what paul is saying here colossians 2 start with verse 13 and you being dead in your trespasses in the uncircumcision of your flesh he's made alive together with him having forgiven all of your trespasses having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us now ten commandments were not written by a man's hand they were written by the finger of god the bible talks about the ceremonial laws and the ceremonial sabbaths that were written by the hand of moses it actually uses that phrase having wiped out the handwriting of requirements which was against us why does it say against us well because the bible says that the ceremonial laws were placed in a pocket outside of the ark of the covenant that it might be a witness against you never said that about the ten commandments having wiped out the handwriting requirements that was against this which was contrary to us taking it out of the way having nailed it to the cross this year's clearly talking about the handwriting of moses which was put on parchment it's nailed to the cross those ceremonial sabbaths and laws they were put in a pocket on the outside of the ark and god said that it may be a witness against you the very language used here is talking specifically about the ceremonial laws and sabbas ten commandments have not been wiped away the only one of the ten commandments they have a problem with is the fourth commandment that begins with the word remember the sabbath day you're not a legalist if you teach all 10 you're being biblical having disarmed principalities and powers he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it so let no one judge you in food or in drink or regard of a festival or a new moon or sabbaths and sentence doesn't end sabbaths which are a shadow of things to come but the substances of christ those sabbaths that are nailed to the cross are the annual feast days of the jews christians historically from the time of christ to the present day have all believed that the sabbath should be kept it's only in recent years they're saying the ten commandments were nailed to the cross and we've just reattached nine of them which is really an absurd teaching and i would ask these gentlemen do they go to church on sunday where is the command in the new testament to go to church on sunday they say well the bible says that this is the teaching where where does it say show me one command in the whole bible that we are to now keep the first day of the week as the new sabbath there is no command and so they say well it was the habit of the disciples to meet on the first day of the week there are occasions they met on the first day of the week and it says and they met daily and they met thursday for the lord's supper and jesus died on friday and he rested in the tomb on the sabbath and he rose sunday never declared it to be a new sabbath day so this is all based upon a myth that has no scripture to support it okay we're going to go back and play a little more one big concern is this legalistic understanding of what's required for christians the sabbath dietary laws etc okay dietary laws the dietary laws are not a jewish law the bible tells us that god gave adam and noah dietary laws by the way the whole world is in a lot of trouble right now because eve ate something and adam they were not supposed to eat and what parent is going to ever tell their children we don't really care what you eat you just pray over it of course we care what our children eat because we love them god cares what his children eat and god told noah when you take the animals on the ark take the clean ones by seven the unclean ones two by two they were not to be used for food or for sacrifice this is a bible teaching even in the new testament peter says not so lord i have never eaten anything common or unclean and so it was the teaching of the disciples and of jesus all through the bible not to eat unclean foods is this work of heavenly atonement we know from the book of hebrews that christ's work of atonement was once for all on the cross hebrews chapter 10 after he completed that once for all sacrifice he sat down at the right hand of the father okay he says that we believe that the work of christ in heaven is not complete well that's true that's what the bible teaches he's making it sound like because we believe that jesus has a continuing work in the heavenly sanctuary that we don't believe his work on the cross was adequate or sufficient seventh the adventist 100 believe that the sacrifice of christ and the blood he shed was adequate and sufficient to provide salvation for the sins of the whole world that he doesn't need to be sacrificed again that is a one-time work it is complete even ellen white who they later will accuse of being the foundation for our teachings supports that the work of christ is complete she wrote in manuscript 128 1897 our great high priest completed the sacrificial offering of himself when he suffered without the gate then a perfect atonement was made for the sins of the people and here's one more the sacrifice of christ is sufficient he made a whole efficacious offering to god the human effort without the merit of christ is worthless that's the review in herald august 19 1890 but the idea that christ's atonement is over it's not an adventist teaching that is a bible teaching if you look in the bible when jesus died on the cross that wasn't the end of his ministry as our high priest he continues his work as a high priest look for instance in hebrews 9 verse 11 but christ came as high priest of the good things to come that's future with greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands that is not of this creation bible says there's a heavenly temple all you've got to do is read in isaiah i saw the lord on his throne surrounded by the two shekinah cherubim you read in revelation 1 jesus is appearing among the seven candlesticks revelation talks about the altar of incense revelation talks about the altar of sacrifice revelation talks about the ark of the covenant all the furniture that you found in the earthly temple we see in heaven in revelation and in the prophecies of zachariah ezekiel isaiah and so this is a bible teaching and then look in hebrews here hebrews 6 20. it says where the forerunner has entered for us even jesus having become a high priest forever according to the order of melchizedek christ is our high priest he has entered into heaven he is interceding in our behalf there that's this next verse hebrews 7 24 but he because he continues it's not over he continues forever he has an unchangeable priesthood therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to god through him since he always lives to make intercession for them jesus is our high priest he is still saving people he is still stretching out his nail-pierced hands before the father as our mediator so the idea that the work of atonement is over that's not true the the sacrifice is over yes but the the atonian work of jesus is not over uh christ is still interceding for his people up there now when you look at the earthly sanctuary the altar was the first thing that you saw when you entered into the sanctuary that's like the cross that's where the sacrifice took place it was not the end it was the beginning and then you went on to the labor there's you get the baptism and the fire the altar the holy spirit and you went into the holy place and ultimately to the most holy place the cross is the beginning if the cross was the end how come we're still here it's just so obvious that the plan of salvation is still playing out christ for whatever reason he's said that his work is not done in transforming the church he wants a church that's going to represent him when the children of israel were brought out of egypt was the sacrifice of the lamb the last thing they did before they entered the promised land or the first thing they did before they left egypt it was the first thing it was the beginning of a journey so this gentleman saying that the sacrifice is the end well it is sufficient it is adequate but the work of christ goes on we don't believe there's a second sacrifice or a second atonement that takes place nothing in the new testament indicates that he's performing a second work of atonement in i don't believe that so this idea of adding to christ's work of atonement is really problematic and even the investigative judgment side of it christ is looking at people's works to see who's worthy to enter heaven that again is a works based legalistic believing that christ is looking at works is works based and this is some adventist teaching friends let me read it to you this is not from an adventist book this is from the bible revelation 20 verse 12 and i saw the dead small and great standing before god and the books were open and another book was opened which was the book of life and the dead were judged according to their works by the things that were written in the books revelation 22 12 last chapter in the bible behold i'm coming quickly this is red letter words of jesus my reward is with me to give to everyone according to his work you can read the last chapter in ecclesiastes there solomon says in chapter 12 14 for god will bring every work into judgment including every secret thing paul says we shall all stand before the judgment seat of christ why would you say that a church is legalistic for teaching all of the bible not just some of the bible yes there is a judgment day we're saved by our faith but we are judged by our works and the works show whether or not you've allowed the gospel to transform you and to sanctify you and that you've been saved it's not legalism see that's kind of the dirty word that some churches paint other churches if you teach the commandments of god then they try to pin the word legalism on you make you look like a pharisee but you know these are the things that paul said that peter said that james said that jesus said paul said it is not the hearers of the law that will be justified before god but the doers of the law will be justified romans chapter 2 verse 13. and so believing scripture does not make you legalistic legalistic understanding of salvation i think it's a big problem and then the third major area of concern would be with regard to the way lng white is treated they elevate lng white as an authoritative prophetess and anytime you have a movement that elevates anyone or anything to a level of equal authority and in reality greater authority than scripture because they say that scripture has to be interpreted through the lens of ellen g white i think you are setting yourself up for major major problems all right now that this is the third she's itemized the three things the three reasons they say that evangelicals are supposed to look at seventh-day adventists as a cult one is because we believe all ten commandments that i think is absurd the second one is they say that we don't believe the work of christ was completed by the cross we do believe that the salvation of christ provided on the cross is was adequate for one time cover the sins of the world is completely sufficient but the work of atonement is clearly not over based on the scriptures that i gave you that christ is still ministering as our high priest in heaven it's true and the third thing they say that and i hear this all the time that we put alan white on an equal or a higher plane for with the bible or we must interpret the bible through ellen white that is categorically not true now you know let me just say something whenever you're trying to find out what the truth is and you're evaluating what a church believes um i've seen this before where you know there'll be some disaster in a neighborhood a hurricane will go through and the news crew will come in and they jump out of their truck and they take the microphone and they walk over to someone who's standing on the street and all the neighbors are looking they're going oh please don't interview him do not give the microphone to that guy that is the village idiot every church especially a church that's got millions of believers if you want to take a letter or writing or an email post and interview one person say this is what they believe that's not fair if you want to find out what a church believes go to what the bible says and go to what their official teachings are and so if you look at the official teachings of the seventh-day adventist church we do not believe that the writings of ellen white are on an equal plane higher or that the bible should be interpreted through the writings of illinois let me just give you some stuff on that if you join the seventh-day adventist church you go through a series of 13 baptismal vows baptismal vow number five reads this way by the way ellen white's name does not appear anywhere in our baptismal vows it says i believe the bible is god's inspired word and it constitutes the only the bible constitutes the only rule of faith and practice for the christian this is not something new this is what we believe if you look at the writings of ellen white it says the people of god are directed to the scriptures as their safeguard against the influence of false teachers and elusive powers of spirits of darkness by their testimony every statement not by my testimony by their testimony every statement must be tested that's great controversy page 593. here's another statement by ellen white unless you think that she was saying her writings are our instruction was to be on an equal level or above the bible he christ pointed to the scriptures as of unquestionable authority and we should do the same the bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite god as the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith it would be absolutely abhorrent to ellen white to hear anybody in our church say that her writings were to be put on an equal level or above the teachings of christ and now if you go to the official the longer not just the baptismal vows but if you go to our book of 27 fundamentals it's a more exhaustive book it says the official statement in the seventh day adventist church says the bible is the standard by which all teachings and experience must be tested now you may find some sympathy adventists out there that are not balanced and they make too much of ellen white's writings you know you can find lutherans by the way martin luther had a couple of dreams and visions didn't know that and i believe god used luther i believe luther was inspired not on the level of the bible but you're going to find some lutherans they're always quoting luther and you're going to find some baptists in there always quoting calvin as though calvin is the last word and you're going to find some methodists they're always quoting john wesley and i believe god spoke through luther and wesley and calvin i believe that god inspired ellen white in an even more specific way but she never called herself a prophetess but we do believe in the gift of prophecy and the bible teaches that this is a bible teaching first corinthians 12 verse 9 and 10 to another talking about the gifts of the spirit by the same spirit the gifts of healing by the same spirit to another working of miracles to another prophecy to another discerning of spirits to another different kinds of tongues to another the interpretation of tongues so one of the gifts of the spirit is the gift of prophecy you can read in first corinthians 14 verse 1. paul said pursue love and desire spiritual gifts but especially that you may prophesy verse 3 he who prophesies speaks with edification exhortation and comfort to men now keep in mind in the early church they did not view every prophecy that god may have given a person as something to be added added to the canon of scripture you can read in acts 21 verse 9 speaking of philip it says now this man had four virgin daughters who did prophesy we don't have the books of the four daughters of philip and so it was common to believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the gifts of the church before i was a seventh-day adventist i worshiped a lot with charismatic pentecostal assembly of god christians i was in their services they were jumping up all the time and uttering prophecies and yet they don't call them a cult and so they very much all you got to do is just turn your channel on sunday morning you're going to hear some of these pastors say i've got a word from the lord and they they say it's the gift of prophecy so to categorize a church as a cult because they still believe in the gift of prophecy and we do not believe that the writings of ellen white are equal to the bible or on or above the bible or that the bible should be interpreted through her teachings i do evangelism all the time everything i believe all the doctrines i believe is the seventh adventist i go right to the bible but something you're going to notice is you bounce around a little bit online is that when people want to criticize the seventh adventist church instead of going point by point through the doctrinal teachings what they do is they kind of create a straw man argument and they talk about ellen white and then they make a big deal out of that you know just while we're on the subject trends here you've got a woman who lived about 87 years for 70 years of her life she was involved in public ministry her family supported her in what she was doing she wrote more than any other woman in american history her books are in the libraries a lot of evangelical pastors have her books and they use it as an inspired commentary before they preach i hear them on the radio and television they will not tell you i got this from ellen white but i know her writings and i can tell when they've been reading her books i've heard him quote her on the radio and she's powerful powerful you know before you reject something i recommend you look at it here we've got a doctor of theology who's making these blanket statements no references no quote he simply sits down in front of a university sign that's supposed to give you credibility so if you're going to buy a box of cereal read the ingredients if you want to know what a church believes look at their official statement of what they believe see if it matches up with the bible so why are they taking all this time and energy to undermine or to criticize or to try to put that badge of cult on seventh-day adventists well if you look at the statistics right now in north america virtually every mainline church is in free fall when it comes to membership methodists lutherans presbyterians baptists and a number of the other mainline churches their membership is plummeting seventh-day adventists are still growing and right now we have about 20 million members it is a movement people are turning back to the bible and that and they're finding out what the bible really says there's been a great revival a primitive bible study and people are saying yeah why don't we keep the sabbath why aren't we following you know all these guidelines and teachings in the bible and so it's been moving and they're frankly a little threatened by that once again if you're blessed by these programs we'd encourage you to go ahead click the like button i'd invite you to subscribe to my channel and then pass on the good news to your friends god bless and don't forget if you'd like more information on what the bible really says about the law and grace is obedience legalism we'll give you this free book it's called does god's grace blot out the law just click on the link below and it will be yours read it and share it with others god bless [Music]

Channel: Doug Batchelor

Views: 171,897

Rating: 4.9054818 out of 5

Keywords: are seventh day adventist a cult?, ellen g white, doug batchelor, amazing facts, sda, cults, it is written, cult

Id: 5iF0pENRls8

Length: 30min 6sec (1806 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 29 2021