Martin, please face the clerk. Raise your right hand. She will administer the oath. Please have a seat in the witness chair. Mr Anderson. Please state your, I'm gonna ask you to your first middle and last name. Uh Alexander James Martin. Do you go by a nickname? AJ? Yeah. And AJ. Were you tubing with friends on July 30th 2022 on the Apple River. Uh Yes, I was. And you're friends with Tony. Yeah, we were uh roommates in college and then that was the first time we'd seen each other in like three years. Ok. And what, what college, uh River Falls, Wisconsin. What city and state do you live in now? Uh Saint Paul Minnesota. AJ. Do you have any prior criminal convictions? Yes. Uh, two. And what do you do for work? Um, I'm a electrical apprentice. I install solar panels. And how tall are you? Uh, 59 and three quarters. And how much do you weigh? Uh, 160 now? And how much? And if you know about on July 30 2022 170 what do you at some point when you're tubing on the river? Did something catch your attention or people's attention that you're with. Uh Yeah, what do you recall about that? Um Just a lot of loud noises, screaming, yelling at someone asking for help. And then, um I had seen Maddie get up with someone and what I thought I, or what I remember was getting up and I think I had got Dante up with me, but then I turned around to also get Tony up and Dante was over there. Um I turned back around from trying to get Tony up and, uh I believe I saw Maddie get pulled in the back of her hair and then punched in the face. Um, it could also be that she just got punched in the face and I had seen like the after like her face get flung and that's why I thought her head got pulled. Um, and then so, um, do you recall like how far away you were when you saw that happened to Maddie? I was probably about halfway in between the groups. I was or maybe a little closer to, um, we're group two, right? So I would be a little closer to group one, the, the teens group still on your way over. And after that, did you hurry over? Um, I mean, yeah, I was after I saw him punch her, I, um, wanted to get over there but I didn't, I wasn't, yeah, I, I tried to get over there as fast as I could I guess. And what do you recall after that? Um, well, after he had hit Maddie in the face, um, I saw someone else hit him and I wasn't sure who, um, I saw him fall into the water. And my intention was because I used to work at elementary schools and had experience breaking up fights with little kids and stuff like that. So my intention was to, um, go over there and try and break it up. I saw him in the water and I saw people going around him. So I went to push his shoulder in the, the front, but ultimately didn't. Um, but I was gonna try and just get him to stay down for another second and then tell everyone to back up and then we could have figured out what was going on. But as I reached down to push him in the shoulders, he reached up and, um, I guess, I don't know if you call it a stab but got me with the knife. What was your injury? Um, well, there is a lot, I guess, uh, the most, um, apparent thing obviously was that my stomach was open and my intestines were in my hands. I don't know what other parts were there, but, I mean, they were in my hands and, uh, I mean, yeah, I mean, I, I know that from there but afterwards with like the medical records and stuff, I know other injuries. I don't know if you want me to go into that or not. Um, did you, after you're holding your intestines, did you see much of anything after that? Not much? I mean, after that, I remember screaming pretty, pretty viscerally I think is the word. Uh, and then I remember kind of scooping it together with my left arm and putting my right arm down and standing up and then falling down and standing up again and I think I fell down and stood up one more time. And then I was kind of, I mean, I was still conscious. I was, I was talking, um, but after that, really all I remember is that and then telling Tony that I was gonna die and him telling me I was going to be fine and that I wasn't and my response every time was, uh, 100%. I'm, I'm going to die today. And then I remember waking up in the hospital with a breathing tube and my parents looking at me and do you know how long you were in the hospital for that first time? You had 27 days and after when you woke up the first time, was that after surgery? Yeah, it was around 1130 that night, I believe. Did you have follow-up surgeries? Um, uh, a few. Yeah. Did they, was your wound stitch closed right away? No. Um, they put what they call a wound vac on it. Um, I assume that a is kind of like a fake flesh or skin. Um And they left that on for about a week doing other exploratory surgeries just to make sure that they didn't miss any other lacerations or injuries. And then after almost a week or so, they uh had intern done internal stitches but left the top open so that it would heal better. And they put a another smaller wound vac over that. Did you have to have um any sort of devices to assist with digestion eating? Feeding? Um Yeah, I had a few feeding tubes, um some NG tubes to help with uh just the extra fluids in my stomach. Um But yeah, I had the feeding tube cause um after the surgeries, I had developed the hematoma in my uh intestine and it was completely blocked off. There was no food, no water and the IVIV nutrition wasn't doing enough. I had lost £50 in that 27 day stint. AJ. Were you drinking on the river that day? Yes. Do you believe you're intoxicated? Uh Probably. Yeah. Did, do you recall how you got to shore? Um No, not really. I uh didn't know what I did really? I just remembered the standing up and the falling down and then I know people did move me in the end, but I don't remember it. I couldn't, I couldn't see or feel anything at that point. And you don't remember the, do you, well, let me ask do you remember much of anything or anything from the point where you're onshore till you wake up in the hospital? No. Um I think I had lost too much blood at that point. I mean, I, in the past I've lost a lot of blood from a injury when I was younger and I lost sight and vision or, I mean, I lost sight and hearing from that too. So I know that like once you do lose enough certain parts start stop working because your body is trying to keep you alive, not your senses. You talked about uh artificial skin that you had on at the hospital. Oh yeah, the wound back we approached it. Yes. DJ. Uh Just a graphic photo. Your first. Yeah. What just can you just tell me what that photo shows uh shows the the wound vac and I guess the extent of the wound? I mean, yeah. Is that a photo of you in the hospital? Yeah, that was the uh the next morning. Ok. George, I'm gonna move to admit this. Now, I'm not gonna ask to publish it the objection uh other than those noted and as long as it's not published, they, so its all right, it is received. What was the number? Oh, sorry. 29. What was it? 2929 correct? So 20 I is received AJ do you recall telling law enforcement? Um I don't think I touched him, but if I was my hand was on his shoulder. It wasn't forceful. And did you tell law enforcement your, your goal was to try to break it up? Yes, I, I remember that. I'm gonna go through some slides with you ready? Hm. 25. 73. Are you in this frame? AJ? Yeah. In the yellow shorts. You can take the screen down, please. Can we have it again? I'm just gonna go scroll from 2673 2680. Is that your shorts? You stopped at 2800. That section of frames. I just went through AJ. Are those, is that the part where you got hit the knife? Yeah. And that, did you know that guy's name at the time? No. Now you know, I know him and Nick Lime you and I wanna ask you a question quick before I this, this exhibit, I'm 29. If you know, I don't want you to speculate. But do you know if that's and again, don't answer if you, if you don't know that's fine to say you don't know. Is that from the slice or was it? Did you have further incisions from surgery? No, that's all from the slice. There's um it actually goes from like you can't see it super well in the picture, but it goes above my rib cage too. They, they didn't have to open me up. I was already open. Do you know, can you show with your hands about how long the laceration was. Do you hear about that? I mean, it's below the belt line to above my ribs. Are you comfortable showing? Do you have a scar? Yeah. Quite a, quite a big one. Are you, are you comfortable showing the jury? I, I can do that. Yeah. You sure? Yeah. Ok. It actually might be faster. I just don't tuck it, it stops right there, there's a little gap there that hit my ribs but OK, thank you. Now I'm gonna show don't turn the screen on yet please. It's gonna be frame 3111 and I don't want to show it gratuitously, but I want the jury to see it. So if we could just turn it on for a second, turn it off. Yes, I don't have anything else, Mr Nelson, Mr Martin. My name is Aaron Nelson. I wanna ask you some questions. Ok. Yeah, I understand watching the video and seeing the pictures is upsetting to you. Is that fair? Yes, I'm gonna try to do it without the photos, but if you need to see one, we don't need to display it. Just let me know if you need something to refresh your memory. I'm happy to show you on my computer or some other way. Want to do this as easy as we can. Does that make sense? Yes. OK. I want to ask about some of the things that you initially told the police about what happened. Ok. Fair to say that you memory is spotty. I wouldn't say spotty. I would say I remember everything up until I got stabbed pretty well. At least everything that I saw for the most part and fair to say that's not what you told the police when you first met with them. I mean, it was days after and I was on a bunch of pain meds. It's pretty understandable, I think to not have the greatest memory at the time. Maybe I'm just trying to establish the fact that at that time you didn't tell the police of certain things that you remembered. Agree. Sure. Since that time, what you're saying is your memory has improved, correct? I think that shock has worn off and I was able to remember things that I might have subconsciously blocked off. Yes. So again, I understand you have your reasons to explain why you think your memory got better. But we can agree. Your memory has changed from when you first talked to the police to what you're telling the jury today. I just said that in different words. But yes. And in that time frame, I would imagine you've spoke with your friends and family about what happened, correct? Uh I mean, a little, I guess, you know, I mean, I'm not, this is a life changing event for you, correct? I mean, it was, it was posted everywhere people knew before I said anything. So I imagine probably a day doesn't go by where somebody asks a question about it. Right. Maybe not so much now, but when it happened. Yeah. And amongst your group of friends you, it sounds like you're really close with Tony Carlson, right. I mean, yeah. Uh, do you live with him now? Yeah. Ok. And as a result of living with Tony now, I imagine you've still, uh, you also see his brother Dante Carlson, correct? Uh, a few times, but he lives in Wisconsin. I've only seen Dante maybe three or four times since the incident and that includes yesterday. All right. Um How about uh Madison and Riley Di, did you know them before July 30th? I didn't know Maddie, Riley, Scotty, Janelle, um Gina. Uh I didn't know any of them before that day since then because of this shared experience. Have you talk with them about it? Um Maddie, not so much. She's kind of hard to reach. Um And Riley uh again, not so much. It's pretty traumatic for both of us. I didn't really want to, you know, understand, but you've definitely talked at different times with other people that were out on the river there with you that day, correct. Yeah. And you've seen the other than today. Had you seen the video that's been marked as exhibit number two and entered into evidence? Yes. How many times did you watch that? Uh two or three a month ago or so? And then excuse me. Um Another few times going frame by frame and then yeah. Ok. And then all yesterday too, I guess um you were here in court watching the what was happening here, correct? I thought I was gonna be up here yesterday. So yeah, I was here. Um so I want to just make sure that when I'm asking you questions and you're giving answers, if you could do everything you can to say what you remember the image that's in your head as opposed to necessarily just something we can all watch the video of makes sense. What we know is when you spoke with the police on July, excuse me, on August 4th, you spoke with the police that day. Is that right? Uh I think it was that day. All I really remember is saying that um Biden was the president. I don't know the date. Ok. Um Do you remember this young man over here in the gray suit sitting off to the side of the computer on his lap? Yes, sir. Um That's the uh, investigators who you spoke with on that day, whatever day that was in August, correct? And what you told him was the suspect had one of the girls Maddie by the head with his hand and then I watched him pull her hair. That's what you told Mr Schultz, correct? I'm pretty sure that somewhere in there I had mentioned a punch too, but I, I wanna read the, if you said this sentence to him? All right. Did you say to him the suspect had one of the girls Maddie by the head with his hand and then I watched him pull her hair and then I looked back and I was like, Tony, we got to do something now. And so like I just wanted to go over there and break it up and by the time I got over there, Maddie had gotten away, that's what you said. Correct. Sounds pretty accurate. Yeah. So when you first said that to the police, you don't mention in that sentence anything about a punch, I didn't in that sentence. No, I said you said that uh he had her by the head and then he pulled her hair. Correct? Yeah. And as you sit here, now, can you describe to me how he had her by the head? Uh Well, from what I remember she had already kind of started to walk away. Uh and then he grabbed her by the like ponytail and pulled and then punched with his left hand and that was how he hit her in the left cheek and why the glasses weren't affected. It was because he was from behind. Ok. Um So your memory is she's turned and walking away. I'm just trying to break this down and she's got her essentially back to Mr Mew. Correct. That was what I remember seeing. And again, all we all you can do is tell us your memory. Um And as she's walking away, your memory is that he reaches out and grabs the back of her hair, correct? And do you know which hand he grabs the back of her hair with? I would have assumed the right because I, I believe he punched her with the left. Ok. So and so did you know that at that time when at 149 in the video, the blade, the knife had already been shown at 145 in the video, I didn't at the time. But after watching the video, yes, but your memory is that whatever he had in his right hand, he still managed to reach out his right hand and grab her by the hair with his right hand and then he pulled her back. Yeah, he pulled back and punched to punched her as she's facing away. Well, when you pull someone's hair back, their head moves. So her head turned towards him and then he punched and this isn't fair to Mr Troy. But if I'm pulling him back, if I'm Mr Mew, and this is Maddie, the punch is coming from this direction, but he wasn't pulling her like that. I understand Mr Troops is not, uh look like Maddie for lots of reasons we're not going to talk about but right his hands up here and the head's coming back and then the left hand comes around. Ok? And that's the manner in which you said that he hit her. That's how I remember it and then it would be upon her left side here. It's probably in this area right here. Ok. And you're making up to the job or the cheekbone, but in this area, um and I'm just trying to make sure we get uh what you said down. And so you're describing an area to the front of the ear, correct? Yeah, front of ear area like sideburn area. Sure. Where on you you have some sideburns coming down, correct? Yes. All right. And where on you wearing glasses? It was below the frame of the glasses, correct? All right. Is that a Yes, yes, sorry. That's all right. Um So that's your memory of what you saw as in pulling her hair with one hand and punching with the other. Correct. Yeah. But also when you were pulling back on him, you have to remember she had uh I'm not trying to be rude but like she has the hair, you know. And so you also have to, you have to remember too though that her ponytail might have been not centered. So when he pulls, she's not necessarily going straight back, she could be going to the side, she could be going to the other side. I'm not trying to be, if it sounds as if I've been trying to be critical, Mister Martin. I'm just trying to gather the facts. I don't, I don't think that I just, I felt like I wanted to or needed to say that. Ok. That's fine. Fair to say that the description you just gave now isn't the description that you gave to the police back in August of 22. Agreed. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Um another sentence that you told to the police, you were talking to the police about um your understanding that the suspect Mr Mew had been making advances on one of the girls there. Is that right? Uh I didn't really know, I didn't know if that was what was happening. I was, I had heard the other comments that the other group was making. So I, I didn't even know if there was a girl in their group at that point in time. Um I was just going over there because I didn't think that it was super smart to let two girls go and approach a £250 man by themselves. So just a lot to unpack there. Again, lots of things were said and you didn't know what to believe. Would that be fair to say? But when you're describing this to the police, you're describing, I'm just trying to set this up where you, you say something to the police. Does that make sense? You say I heard they were making advances on one of the girls. There makes sense. Something along those lines. Yeah. And then the police officer says they're like, yeah, the guy's hitting on her, she's not of age. The police officer says that to you. And in response, you say I saw him grab the other girl by the head. So it didn't really matter at that point. Those are the words that you told investigator Schultz. Correct. Yes. Yes. Ok. Other things that you said on that day were that you didn't touch Mr Me, correct? I said that that was a possibility. You read that earlier. You were asked, were you touching him when you were getting stabbed? The answer? No. Do you remember answer? I don't think I ever did if I did like my hand was on the shoulder maybe, but it wasn't forceful. Those are the words that you said. I had said, possibly not. But I also did give credit to the fact that I could have touched him. I understand that I'm asking, I'm just trying to gather what you exactly said to the police. And the third thing that you said to the police regarding those things is you, uh you said that you saw, I think you said in your words, the black guy hit him. I thought it was him, but I wasn't sure. And you've learned since then that it's your roommate's brother that hit him, correct? But that's not what you told the police, correct? It's not what I remembered. Do you have a memory of the black guy hitting him? That's what I thought I saw. But there was a lot of people standing close to each other. So it was pretty, I think, understandably pretty easy to get confused. Understood. So you thought you saw him pull her hair and punch her with his left hand, right? You thought you didn't touch him at all? Right? I, and you, I gave, I didn't think that I didn't touch him. It was, I could have possibly not. And you thought that the black guy punched me? Correct. Yes. Those were the memories that you shared with the police in August. Correct. Sure. Yes. Fair to say that all those memories are wrong. Uh Yeah, I mean, I would uh Yes. Do you agree that those memories are wrong? I would say no, I wouldn't say that the second one is wrong because like I said, I gave credit to both the possibility of me hitting him or, or pushing him in the possibility of me not touching him at all. Let's pull that one out and let me just talk about the other two. Do you agree? The memory that you told the police that you had of Mr Mew pulling uh Madison from behind by the hair and punching her with the left hand. That's wrong. I mean, I guess I can't say yes or no because it doesn't really show that in the video. And I, I mean, my memory about that hasn't changed. So that's still how you remember it. That's how I remember it. Yes. And the memory about uh the black guy punching Mr mew. That's still how you remember it. That's no, not. I mean, I, I don't know exactly what I saw. I saw him close to him and it could have been his arm that hit him, but I really didn't know what I saw at that point. So. Ok. All right. Um I wanna go through um a portion of what I think is on the video to just ask if that is what you remember happening. Ok? Um Because as I think you told the police during your interview, you said to the police, ok? I wanted to get, I wanted to get the guy away from us, but I wasn't going to try and like punch him. I'm not a fighter. I'm tiny. That's what you told the police, right? I was the biggest I'd ever been in my life and I was still not a super big guy. He had £80 on me. I understand. I'm just trying it again. The words that you said to the police were, I'm not a fighter. Yes. All right. At some we saw in the slides there that at some point Mr Mew goes down into the water from Mr uh Dante Carlson punching him, right? And just to put it into context and then we see in the slides your leg, you kind of approach and stand over him, correct? I wouldn't say over him. I would say I'm to the side of him and then he starts moving and my body position, plus where he moved himself would make it appear that way. Sure. He's on the ground. Correct. In the water. You're standing on 2 ft. Correct. You weren't leaning over him, but it might appear that way if somebody is down in the water looking up. Correct. You could. Yeah. And when that happens you don't push your friend, Dante away, do you? I, uh uh I didn't even know that Dante was there at the moment. I didn't see the second hit or slap or the third one. I had wet hair. My hair was hanging down. I was looking down. I wasn't focused on other people. I was focused on getting this man away from everyone else. So this man, this man at that point, you knew he had been punched and knocked to the ground and he's in the water, correct? And you're telling the jury that you were, you were trying to do is you were trying to get him away from other people while he's down in the ground in the water. Get people away in some way shape or form. It didn't need to be him. I wanted him to stay down so we couldn't go and punch another person and then I was gonna tell everyone there to back away because so there's a lot to unpack there again. You could you, as you said, you wanted to get other people away but you didn't go to the other people. You went to Mr Newton. Correct. Yeah, I went to the guy who was punching people first. Great. Um, again, based upon your memory that he pulled someone's hair and punched them from behind. Correct. Based on the memory that I know that he punched someone. Yes, it doesn't matter how he punched them. I know he punched them and he shouldn't have. Ok. Um, and you were going to make him pay for that. So when he's down in the water on the ground and you're standing there trying to be the peacemaker because you're not a fighter. You thought it was gonna be peaceful to you to keep him down in the water. I mean, it was shallow water. His head wasn't below all we needed was an extra second to get people to move away from him and then he could get up and we could possibly have a conversation. But I mean, he hadn't used any words up until that point. So probably not. So when you're standing there next to him, when he's on the water, you don't see your friend Dante come up and smack him across the face the second time. You don't see that. I saw him get dropped into the water and I was looking down at him, my hair was over my eyes here. I mean, it was shorter than it is now, but you can imagine. So you didn't see him go back into the water. The second time in response to Dante hitting him, didn't, you didn't see that he went down into the water and then he never got up until he was correct. But you said the second time he was in the water, that's the first time. Still. The second time came after he stabbed me. Ok. Understood. Um, his, uh, first time was in the water was extended for a longer period of time because Dante smacked him when he was already down in the water. Sure. Yes. And you're saying you were standing right there but you didn't observe that. No. Like I said, my hair was in the way and I wasn't really focused on Dante. I didn't know where Dante was. I was focused on the man who was hitting people who was hitting people. Not at that point. The man that was hitting people was Dante Carlson, right? Sorry. Should I I will rephrase the man who started the physical altercation. Um That was what, that's what essentially your opinion is correct. I mean, I would say that the first person to throw a punch would be the first person to be aggressive regardless of if um there are other people slightly touching his shoulder. I mean, even you were talking about the consent to touch thing and he touched other people without their consent too. So I mean, if you want to go that way, we we can, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm not trying to go. Anyway, sir, I'm just trying to gather the facts. So the person that's punching Mr Mew, you don't see that correct? I saw Mr Mew fall into the water and I didn't see anything after that. In terms of him getting hit. When you saw him fall in the water, you went up to him from behind. I apologize but I'm gonna need to show some. I mean, I can explain what I did. It's good. I'm gonna just go through some slides. Mhm. Please show uh my screen, please showing you. It's 27 05. That's Mr Mew in the water. Correct. Yes, that's Dante Carlson swinging to hit him. Correct. And my leg in the bottom, that's your leg in the bottom. Correct. You're moving towards Mr Mew. Agreed. Yes. Moving at him from his, what would be his front, left side and then eventually you come to be behind him, correct? Uh When I would still say I'm at the midpoint of his body, he just sat up. I wouldn't necessarily constitute being behind someone. I mean, yes, I I was, I guess technically but he wasn't there. When I walked there, he moved himself to have me behind him. You moved yourself. Correct? No, he moved. I I moved, I walked over there. Yes, but I was standing right at about his hips and then he stood or sat up. So is it your testimony? That in some way, Mr Mew was aware of your presence and intentionally turned to have you behind him. Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying he did it intentionally. I'm just saying that that's what happened. Ok. So again, you're behind him, correct? And uh sort of on his side and you with your left hand on his back shoulder and his right hand on his back shoulder, you're behind him, correct? I have both hands on one shoulder. If I, I'm not completely behind him, you can see I'm somewhat on the side, but yes, I am somewhat behind him due to his repositioning. You're pushing him, correct? Yeah, that's where I had said that. I thought I'd push him in the front, left shoulder to keep him down, but I was there too late. So I didn't get that shoulder. I guess I got the back of it. And you said you're a peacemaker, right? Do you like to mediate? That's what I was trying to do. You could understand how somebody who'd been down in the water and hit two times, getting pushed from behind. May not understand that you're trying to mediate goes to his mindset world. You can answer the question to sorry. What was the question here as somebody who likes to mediate and was attempting to mediate. You can understand how a person in Mr Mew's position who'd been hit twice in the water might not understand or appreciate your intent to try to deescalated by pushing him in the behind. You misunderstand that. Right. He could misunderstand that. Sure. I mean, it could have been solved if he tried to use words at all too, could have. And let me just go from 2745 to 2747. Do you see that? That's you still, that's your body behind him. Correct. Yes, that's your right hand on the right side of his back. Correct. That's your left hand on the left side of his back. Correct. I'd say right. It's more in the middle, but the left one is definitely on his left shoulder. And that's your friend, your friend, your roommate's brother, who is your friend Dante Carlson? That's his hand that we can see underneath your underarm there that's hitting Mr Mew. Correct. Uh Like I said, I didn't see it but the video showed it. So, I mean, so based off of memory, I can't say yes, your face is right there. And you're saying you didn't see Dante hit Mr Me there. No, like I explained, my hair was down in front of my eyes. It's wet. My hair is thick and black. So it's not super easy to see through what you did say is Mr Mew wasn't saying anything. You could agree that in this position with somebody pushing him from behind and somebody hitting him in the front, it might be a difficult time to use your words to make peace. Yeah, the right time to use your words would have been before he punched a woman in the face. We can get to that later. Um, you extend your body to, in an attempt to push him down as you say, correct. Well, I was pushing down and then he got up and I fell forward. So I was asking about your intent. Your intent was to push him down in the water. Agreed it was to push his shoulder down so that he stayed down and I could tell everyone to back up. Yes. But you agree, your intent was to push him down and keep him in the water to keep him down. If the water, I mean, if the ground was there, I would have done the same thing. It didn't, I wasn't worried about there being water or not, it was shallow. His head wasn't going below. He was gonna be ok. You can understand how perhaps somebody in the position getting pushed from behind in the water might not appreciate that you were trying to protect him and keep him. Ok. Right. I guess head appeared to be getting wet there. Not his face. That's where your mouth is. I, I don't, I see maybe the right cheek dip in a little bit, but as soon as go go a few slides further and you'll see it, set, set it back up again. Sure, safe as can be. Right. I, I don't know. It is. Please, let's, let's focus on the facts. Clean Q and A, please just back up a little bit more here when we, you said his head didn't go in the water. Fair to say that's his head making a wave, correct? I would say that's his back making a wave and his head still not in the water. Have you ever fallen back after getting laid out in the water like that? Yeah, I have. Did it feel like maybe the water was coming up on you even if it technically didn't? Uh No, I mean, right. Water usually has a pretty distinct feeling on your skin. I mean, and when you had that experience where you got laid out and fell back into the water, did someone come up and attack you a second time in that situation? Sustained? So I'm gonna go forward back to the position where we were before I apologize. So again, you'd said here at 2754 your attempting to keep him down and he manages to move away from you, the person who's pushing him somewhere in the back area. Right. Yes. Yes. I was trying to push him in the front left shoulder and I got the back, left shoulder because he was getting up and I was not fast enough to get the front left shoulder. Um And I'm gonna go through some other photos here that might be difficult. Are you OK with that in this position. Now, you, that's you in the yellow shorts, correct. And to your right is Dante Carlson, correct? I believe so. I don't know. I, I, I don't remember seeing anyone else there. I remember pushing down and feeling strange. Is this person you knew what Dante looks like? Correct. Yes. Is that Dante in the two to gray shorts with the truly in his hand? Uh I believe so. Yeah. And then that's the same person that's legs are right there. Correct. So you and Dante are standing very near Mr Mew as he's beginning to try to get up out of the water. Correct. Correct. And as he begins to get up out of the water, you move towards him. Correct. You didn't know that he had a knife, correct? You were going at him. Correct? I don't know. I don't remember anything after your first push. This is where you're trying to, you push him down again. Correct. I would say we kinda attacked each other at that one if anything. But I mean, I didn't, I, I don't remember this so I can't tell you, I don't, but you're, I didn't, he, he got me before I did anything to him. So this is your hands on him. Agreed. OK. Maybe my, my hand is on his arm. Yeah, this is you, as you said, attacking him. Correct. I didn't mean attacking, sorry, those are the words that you used to the jury. I mean, you were attacking him. I wasn't attacking him, ok? You were trying to push him down in the water. I was trying to separate or get him isolated so that we could separate everyone else from him so we could get everyone away and then we could figure out what was actually going on because you hear teenagers asking for help, you hear people yelling that he's a whatever and you, I mean, at that point and you see minors, you're gonna be more worried about getting him away from them before you ask the questions. And you chose to do that by using your hands on his body to push him. Correct. Yes, I tried to keep him down with my arms. Yes. And then I was going to tell everyone to back up and give him some space. So as you said, you're not a fighter, correct? You were trying to mediate, correct? All right, we've been through this before. Let's move on to a new topic. You'd heard that he, people calling him a predator, correct? I don't know what I heard. I heard just I, I heard them saying stuff about a little girl and I heard, I, I just, I don't know what else it was. I don't know, I didn't know. Like I said, I didn't know if there was a girl in that group. I wasn't worried about whether or not there was, I was worried about getting the person that they were calling a pedophile or a raper away from the miners. You can have a conversation about that later. You agree that even though you're not, as you say, you're not a fighter, you pushed a man from behind while your friend was smacking him in the front. Agreed. Hold on, hold on. Sustain. We, we've been through this before many times. Please. Please. I am speaking. Please move to a new topic. Apologize. Judge, I thought you were done. Do you have any explanation as to why you pushed him while your friend was hitting him? If you're not a fighter? I already answered. Please. Please asked an answer sustained. Was it because he got caught up with the crowd? It was because I couldn't see the person in front of me because my hair was blocking my vision and I was focused on the man who had just punched a 23 year old or 22 year old girl in the face. That's all Mr Henderson. Thank you, Mr Martin. You may step down. Is he released? Ok. Please see the witness coordinator in the back.
