YOU'VE BEEN DRINKING THAT DAY, RIGHT? YEAH. I HAD A BEERS. IS EXHIBIT 12 A YOU RECOGNIZE THAT? YES. THAT'S THE GROUP PHOTO OF YOU FOLKS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE RIVER. YEP. YOU'RE HOLDING A BEER, CORRECT. LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY IN YOUR GROUP HAS SOME SORT OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE. LOOKS LIKE IT. YOU SEE NUMEROUS PEOPLE AT YOUR GROUP WITH THESE PHONE CASES AROUND THEIR NECKS. YES. AND AS YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE RIVER, YOU SAW LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH PHONE CASES AROUND THEIR NECKS, RIGHT. ALL DAY LONG. YEAH IN FACT, RIVER EDGE SELLS OR RENTS OUT THOSE PHONE CASES. RIGHT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE IN YOUR GROUP RENT OR BUY PHONE CASES FROM THE TWO RENTAL. I HAVE NO IDEA. RIGHT YOU'VE TESTIFIED THAT THAT YOU WERE TOLD TO BRING THE KNIFE BEFORE YOU LEFT YOUR HOME, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND THE REASON FOR BRINGING YOUR KNIFE ON THE RIVER WAS TO CUT STRINGS OR ROPES FOR THE TUBES. RIGHT? CORRECT. AND THAT WAS THAT WAS THE REASON YOU BROUGHT IT. CORRECT IN FACT, YOU TOLD THE POLICE THAT AFTER YOUR TUBES WERE TIED TOGETHER, YOU THOUGHT YOU PUT YOUR KNIFE BACK IN THE CAR. CORRECT? CORRECT. BUT IN FACT, IT WAS IN YOUR POCKET. YES. WAS IT IN YOUR POCKET THE WHOLE DAY? NO ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT. ONCE THE TUBES ARE TIED TOGETHER WITH THE ROPE AND YOU SAID THAT YOU THOUGHT THAT YOU PUT IT BACK IN YOUR CAR. YOU DON'T HAVE A REASON TO HAVE THE KNIFE ANYMORE, RIGHT? IT ACCOMPLISHED ITS PURPOSE, RIGHT? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THE TIME. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU TELL THE COPS THAT THE POLICE THAT YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU WERE GOING TO NEED IT, AND THAT'S WHY YOU THOUGHT YOU PUT IT IN THE CAR? I MAY HAVE, ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN, STEVE KAUFMAN, WHO OWNS RIVER'S EDGE, TESTIFIED FIRST DAY OF TRIAL? YES. AND YOU HEARD HIM SAY THAT THEY THEY SELL PRECUT CORDS FOR A DOLLAR, RIGHT? RIGHT ALL RIGHT. AND THEN DID YOU SEE IN THE PICTURE WHEN YOU GOT ON THE RIVER, YOU WERE WEARING THAT LONG SLEEVED CAMEL SHIRT, RIGHT? A HAT AND SUNGLASSES. CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. ARIEL'S PHONE WAS IN ONE OF THOSE THOSE CASES. RIGHT SURE. YEAH. YEAH, I CAN SEE IT. ALL RIGHT. AND IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THOSE CASES ARE FLOAT CASES? THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU TOLD. IN FACT, YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT HART THAT IT WASN'T A FLOAT CASE, RIGHT? CORRECT ONCE THE PHONE DISAPPEARED, THERE WAS CONVERSATION AMONGST THE FOLKS IN YOUR GROUP ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS EVEN WORTH IT TO GO LOOK FOR IT, RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I LEARNED. AND IN FACT, YOU WERE TOLD THAT THEY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE LOST PHONE BECAUSE THEY HAD INSURANCE TO COVER IT. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I LEARNED HERE. BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THAT AS A CONVERSATION. NOBODY ASKED YOU TO GO LOOK FOR THE PHONE, RIGHT? CORRECT. YOU YOU CHOSE TO DO THAT ON YOUR OWN. I VOLUNTEERED AND IN FACT, MEMBERS OF YOUR GROUP WERE A LITTLE ANNOYED THAT YOU WERE STOPPING AGAIN. SO, SO QUICKLY AFTER HAVING BEEN AT THE HIDEAWAY WHERE YOU HAD STOPPED FOR LUNCH. SPECULATION. SUSTAINED. DID YOU HEAR ANYBODY IN YOUR GROUP SAY, WHY ARE WE STOPPING AGAIN? I DIDN'T STOP THE GROUP. THE GROUP STOPPED WHEN YOU DECIDED TO GO OFF ON YOUR OWN TO LOOK FOR THIS PHONE, RIGHT? SPECULATION. OVERRULED. RIGHT THERE ALREADY STOPPED. I GOT OFF THE TUBE TO LOOK FOR THE. SO I DIDN'T STOP THEM. IN ANY EVENT, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO INSISTED ON LOOKING FOR IT. NOBODY ASKED YOU TO DO THAT, RIGHT? OBJECTION. SUSTAINED AND WHEN YOU LEFT TO GO LOOK FOR THE PHONE, YOU HAD YOUR GOGGLES AND YOUR SNORKEL RIGHT? YOU KNEW THAT THE PHONE WAS IN A FLOAT BAG. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT YOU TOLD POLICE AFTERWARDS, RIGHT. IS THAT A YES? YES. SO THE BAG, THE PHONE AND THE FLOAT BAG WOULD HAVE BEEN FLOATING RIGHT? SUPPOSEDLY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. AND SO YOU WOULDN'T NEED A SNORKEL AND GOGGLES TO FIND A PHONE FLOAT FLOATING ON TOP OF THE WATER. RIGHT. I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS ACTUALLY FLOATING OR NOT. NEVER TESTED IT. ALL RIGHT, WELL, YOU WOULD AGREE THAT A PHONE HAS SOME WEIGHT TO IT. YES. AND IF IT WASN'T A FLOAT BAG, IT WOULD SINK TO THE BOTTOM RIGHT? YES. WHERE IT WAS DROPPED. CORRECT. WELL. OR REMEMBER, IT'S A RIVER. SO IT COULD HAVE FLOWN DOWN THE RIVER HAS CURRENT, RIGHT, RIGHT. SO IT COULD. I WANT TO DRAW SOMETHING HERE. YES YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU MET WITH LIEUTENANT HART? YOU DREW A DIAGRAM OF THE RIVER. ALL RIGHT. AND THIS IS YOUR GROUP UP HERE AT THE SANDBAR. RIGHT THIS IS THE BOYS GROUP DOWN HERE. I'LL PUT INITIALS IS FOR ISAAC SHUMAN. RIGHT CORRECT. THIS IS WHAT YOU. THIS IS THE DIAGRAM THAT YOU WROTE DREW FOR LIEUTENANT HART. THE PHONE WAS LOST OVER HERE, RIGHT? INSTEAD OF LOOKING DOWNSTREAM FOR IT, WHERE THE CURRENT WAS GOING, YOU WENT THIS WAY ACROSS THE CURRENT ? NO. TO LOOK FOR THE PHONE. YOU MADE CONTACT WITH ISAAC SHUMAN'S GROUP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER. BUT THAT'S THAT'S. THAT'S NOT WHERE I STARTED LOOKING FOR IT. STRAIGHT ACROSS THE RIVER. THAT'S WHERE YOU ENDED UP MAKING CONTACT WITH. I ENDED UP THERE, BUT I DIDN'T START THERE. ALL RIGHT? THE PHONE WOULD NOT HAVE FLOATED ACROSS THE CURRENT RIGHT ? WELL I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE LOST IT. THAT'S WHERE WE PULLED OVER. HE COULD HAVE LOST IT, MINUTES BEFORE WE EVEN, ANCHORED. SO WHEN YOU TESTIFIED A MINUTE AGO THAT THE PHONE WAS LOST FOR YOUR GROUP WAS LABELED M, NOW YOU'RE CHANGING THAT STORY IN THAT VICINITY, MISCHARACTERIZE HIS TESTIMONY AGAIN, MEMBERS OF THE JURY, WHAT THE ATTORNEYS SAY IS NOT EVIDENCE. RELY ON THE WITNESSES TESTIMONY. NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE. ANY OF THE BAND. IT'S YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU HAD REASON TO GO OVER TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER. FOR ISAAC SHUMAN'S GROUP WAS. TO LOOK FOR A PHONE. THAT'S YOUR STORY? I HAD REASON TO SEARCH IN THAT AREA. I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THAT PHONE FELL IN THE WATER. I DON'T THINK EVEN ARIEL KNEW WHERE HE LOST IT. WE DIDN'T DROP THE PHONE WHEN WE ANCHORED. WE DROPPED. HE DROPPED THE PHONE BEFORE WE GOT THERE. FAIR TO SAY THAT AT THAT POINT IN THE RIVER, THE RIVER IS 150FT WIDE. YEP AND ISAAC SHUMAN'S GROUP WAS. ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER. CORRECT. YOUR GROUP'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RIVER, 100FT. RATHER THAN SEARCHING THE NORTH SIDE, YOU WENT TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY, OR DID YOU LOOKED IN THE IN THAT AREA? THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING. YOU WENT OVER TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER RIGHT? ANSWER. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. YOU DID RIGHT. WHAT WAS THAT QUESTION? YOU WENT OVER TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER TO SUPPOSEDLY LOOK FOR THIS PHONE. RIGHT? I ENDED UP THERE AT THAT POINT. YES AND YOU CHOSE TO GO OVER THERE AND LOOK FOR IT WHERE THESE BOYS WERE ASKED AND ANSWERED. OVERRULED YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. OH, YOU CHOSE TO GO OVER TO WHERE THESE BOYS WERE TO LOOK FOR, SUPPOSEDLY LOOK FOR THIS PHONE. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. CHOSE TO LOOK IN THAT AREA. YES. THERE WAS OTHER AREAS OF THE RIVER WHERE THERE WAS THESE BOYS WEREN'T LOCATED THAT YOU COULD HAVE SEARCHED UNTIL THEY FLOATED PAST. RIGHT AMELIA AND OTHER SPOTS, SURE. BUT YOU CHOSE TO GO TO THAT SPOT. I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THOSE BOYS THERE AT THE TIME WHEN I WAS SEARCHING. YOU WERE PRESENT IN COURT WHEN ERIC WILLIAMS, WHO WAS A MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP, TESTIFIED. RIGHT RIGHT. YOU HEARD HIM TESTIFY? YES. AND YOU WERE HERE WHEN HE TESTIFIED THAT HE HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT YOU GOING OVER TO SNORKEL BY THIS GROUP. ISAAC'S GROUP. I HEARD HIM, AND ONE OF HIS CONCERNS IS THAT HE THOUGHT THAT THEY WOULD THINK YOU WERE A PREDATOR, RIGHT? IRRELEVANT JUST SUSTAINED. YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE YOUR KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET THE WHOLE TIME, RIGHT? CORRECT. WHEN YOU DECIDED TO DO A SNORKEL OVER BY ISAAC SHUMAN'S GROUP, YOU HAD THE KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET? YES. DID YOU GO BACK TO YOUR GROUP AND GET IT? NO, I HAD THE KNIFE. I TESTIFIED I DID NOT HAVE THE KNIFE IN MY POCKET THE WHOLE TIME. WHEN WE PULLED OVER THERE, I FIXED MY SHOES. THEN I LEFT IT IN MY POCKET. ALL RIGHT. BUT SOMEHOW. SO WHEN YOU GET READY TO SNORKEL. YES, YOU'VE GOT YOU'VE TAKEN OFF YOUR SHIRT, RIGHT? YES YOUR HAT. YES. YOUR SUNGLASSES. CORRECT YOU LEFT THE KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET. I FORGOT IT IN MY POCKET. WELL, ON THE VIDEO WE CAN SEE YOU TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE. RIGHT? YOU KNEW IT WAS IN YOUR POCKET. WELL, WHEN YOU WALK, IT STARTS. YEAH, BUT IT HAS WEIGHT, RIGHT? YEAH. SO YOU CAN'T FORGET IT'S THERE BECAUSE IT'S GOT WEIGHT. CORRECT. AT SOME POINT I FORGOT I HAD IT IN MY POCKET WHEN. YEAH. YOU WEREN'T WALK. YOU WERE NOT GOING TO NEED YOUR KNIFE TO SNORKEL AND LOOK FOR A LOST PHONE. CORRECT OVERRULED. YOU WEREN'T YOU WEREN'T GOING TO NEED YOUR KNIFE FOR THAT, FOR THAT TASK THAT YOU SET OUT TO DO. RIGHT. I WOULDN'T EVEN NEED ANYTHING. BUT YOU BROUGHT IT WITH YOU ANYHOW. IT HAPPENED TO BE IN MY POCKET. YES. WHEN SHE GOT OVER TO WHERE ISAAC SHUMAN'S GROUP WAS, THEY MADE IT READILY APPARENT THEY DID NOT WANT YOU OVER BY THEM. CORRECT. THAT'S NOT TRUE. THEY DIDN'T CALL YOU NAMES. YES, BUT THEY THEY ASKED ME WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR, AND I THOUGHT THEY WERE POLITE PEOPLE. I SAID, I'M LOOKING FOR MY LOST PHONE. THEY THEY DID NOT WANT YOU BY THEM. AND THEY TOLD YOU THAT, RIGHT? AT SOME POINT, YES. AND THAT'S THE SHORT VIDEO. YOU TURN AROUND AND YOU'RE WALKING AWAY, RIGHT? YES BUT THEN JOANNE COCKFIELD CALLS YOU A RAPER, RIGHT? YES. AND THEN YOU TURN AROUND. YES. AND YOU WERE ANGRY? I WAS NOT ANGRY. YOU WERE NOT ANGRY THAT SOMEONE CALLED YOU A RAPER? NO. ALL RIGHT, YOU LOOK AT JOANNE, WHO'S FILMING YOU, RIGHT? YEAH. AND FOR SOME REASON, YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT EVEN THOUGH MANY PEOPLE ON THE RIVER HAVE THESE PHONES AND THESE FLOAT CASES, YOU DECIDED THAT WAS THE PHONE AND YOU NEEDED TO RUN UP AND CHECK. OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. SUSTAINED YOUR TESTIMONY EARLIER WAS YOU THOUGHT HE HAD THE PHONE , RIGHT? I THOUGHT HE HAD THE PHONE. YES. I WANTED TO INVESTIGATE. AND YOU, INSTEAD OF WALKING UP AND SAYING, HEY, IS THAT THE PHONE I'M LOOKING FOR? YOU RAN UP ON THESE BOYS, DIDN'T YOU? THEY RAN UP AND STUMBLED AND THEN I FELL RIGHT BY. BY THEIR. YES. THAT'S MY NEXT QUESTION. YOU'RE CLAIMING NOW THAT YOU STUMBLED? YES. YOU'VE NEVER SAID THAT BEFORE TODAY EVER. TO ANYBODY, ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR ANYBODY ELSE. RIGHT. BUT I HAVE SEEN THE VIDEOS NOW. WELL, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO. AND SINCE YOU REVIEWED THE VIDEO, YOU KNOW THAT BEFORE YOU RAN UP ON THEM, YOU WERE TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET TO MAKE SURE IT WAS THERE RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. ALL RIGHT, WELL, LET'S TAKE A LOOK. STOP BACK UP ON. THAT'S YOU WITH YOUR RIGHT AND TOUCHING YOUR POCKET WHERE YOUR KNIFE WAS CLIPPED IN. RIGHT IT APPEARS SO. WHAT IS HE ON? WHOA, WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. GET AWAY. SO YOU'RE CLAIMING TODAY THAT WERE YOU REACH DOWN AND GRAB AT THESE BOY'S LEGS. WHERE THEIR TUBES ARE? THAT THAT WAS A STUMBLE. IS THAT YOUR STORY? ARGUMENTATIVE. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. I KNOW I HIT A STONE. YES BUT I GRABBED ON TO THEIR, INNER TUBES. AND YOU KNOW WHERE YOU GRABBED ON TO THEIR INNER TUBE IS WHERE TWO OF THESE BOYS HAD THEIR LEGS DRAPED OVER THEIR INNER TUBES. RIGHT. I SEE THAT. AND YOU MADE CONTACT WITH THEIR LEGS, DIDN'T YOU? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. DID YOU SEE IT ON THE VIDEO? I SEE IT ON THE VIDEO. I DON'T REMEMBER ACTUALLY MAKING CONTACT. AND AS SOON AS YOU DID THAT, THESE BOYS JUMPED OUT OF THEIR TUBES TO GET AWAY FROM YOU. RIGHT YOU REMEMBER THAT? YEAH. AND YOU HELD ON TO THEIR TUBES SO THAT THEIR TUBES COULDN'T FLOAT AWAY. FOR HOW LONG? WELL, I'M ASKING YOU. YOU DID? YEAH. IT LOOKS LIKE FOR A BRIEF ONE SECOND AND YOU WERE SEARCHING THROUGH THEIR TUBES. WHAT YOU WALKED AROUND THEIR TUBES RATHER THAN LETTING THEIR TUBES GO. SO THEY COULD GET BACK IN THEIR TUBES AND BE ON THEIR WAY. YOU WALKED AROUND THEIR TUBES. SO AFTER MY GOGGLES DROPPED IN THE WATER, I WENT AROUND THEIR TUBES TO GO TO THE OTHER SIDE AND LOOK FOR MY GOGGLES. LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR GOGGLES FOR A SECOND, BECAUSE YOU TOLD THE POLICE SPECIFICALLY. LIEUTENANT HART, THAT THESE BOYS KNOCKED YOUR GOGGLES OFF YOUR FACE AND THAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR YOUR GOGGLES AT THAT POINT, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER MY, INTERVIEW WITH HER. CORRECT BUT YOU HEARD YOURSELF SAY IT IN THE INTERVIEW. YES. AND IN FACT, THAT NOTHING OF THE SORT EVER HAPPENED. RIGHT. SO THE INTERVIEW WITH, WITH WITH THE BRANDY HART WAS NOT ACCURATE. WHAT YOU SAID AT THE TIME IS WHAT YOU WANTED THE POLICE TO BELIEVE HAPPENED, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBERED AT THE TIME. AND FROM THE VIDEO, YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU ACTUALLY PUT YOUR GOGGLES IN YOUR MOUTH, SO YOU WOULD HAVE TWO FREE HANDS TO BE ABLE TO GRAB ON TO THESE BOYS TUBES, RIGHT? YES SO YOU WERE PREPARING FOR YOUR STUMBLE BEFORE IT ACTUALLY EVEN HAPPENED ? I WASN'T PREPARED FOR ANYTHING. THESE BOYS WERE CALLING YOU NAMES TO GO AWAY RIGHT? AFTER YOU GRABBED ON TO THEIR TUBES, TOUCHED THEIR LEGS. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT STUFF. ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T REMEMBER THEM CALLING YOU, ASKING YOU WHAT YOU WERE DOING, WATCHING THE VIDEOS. YES, BUT BEFORE. BUT UNNATURAL REMEMBERING. NO, DO YOU REMEMBER AS YOU'RE RUNNING UP THERE SAYING. WHOA WHOA, WHOA, WHAT'S HE DOING? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. ALL RIGHT, BUT YOU'VE SEEN IT ON THE VIDEO. YES. AND THEN ONCE YOU'VE MADE CONTACT WITH TWO OF THESE BOYS LEGS AND GRABBED ON TO THEIR TUBES, THEY STARTED CALLING YOU A, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THEY STARTED CALLING ME. DO YOU REMEMBER THEM CALLING YOU A AT ALL, OR DO YOU JUST KNOW THAT FROM WATCHING THE VIDEO? CORRECT YOU TESTIFIED THAT THEY WERE CALLING YOU NAMES EARLIER, RIGHT? RIGHT AND THAT UPSET YOU? IT DID NOT UPSET ME. WE'VE TALKED YOUR ATTORNEYS TALKED ABOUT YOUR COMFORT SCALE AND YOUR FEAR SCALE. LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR ANGER SCALE, OKAY. AT THE TIME, YOU WERE CALLED A RAPER. WHAT WAS YOUR ANGER SCALE AT? MAYBE ONE, ONE OUT OF TEN. YEAH. AND THAT WAS ENOUGH TO GET YOU TO RUN UP ON THESE BOYS, GRAB ONTO THEM, STOP THEIR TUBES AT A ONE. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? OBJECTION ARGUMENTATIVE. THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID. SUSTAINED YOU DON'T LIKE BEING HUMILIATED, RIGHT? NOBODY DOES. YOUR ATTORNEY HAS SAID THAT THESE BOYS WERE HUMILIATING YOU. OBJECTION AS TO HIS MAKING. SUSTAINED ON THE FORM. YOU'RE CLAIMING THAT YOU WERE BEING TAUNTED. OBJECTION. DID NOT TESTIFY TO THAT. SUSTAINED FORM. MR. YOU HAD TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT YOUR SHOE WAS THERE WAS PROBLEMS WITH YOUR SHOES. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PORTION OF THE VIDEO WE PLAYED SO FAR THAT DIDN'T THOSE SHOES DIDN'T PREVENT YOU FROM RUNNING UP ON THESE BOYS, RIGHT? YES. THEY DID. THERE WAS IF I HAD BETTER SHOES, YOU KNOW, I COULD WALK BETTER. BUT I COULD STILL WALK IF YOU HAD BETTER SHOES, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RUN UP ON THEM FASTER. NO, I MEAN, I COULD WALK BETTER, I WOULDN'T STUMBLE, I WOULDN'T HAVE A HARD TIME WALKING. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN. AND I WANT YOU TO IF YOU CAN POINT OUT FOR EVERYBODY WHERE YOU STUMBLED. WHAT IS HE ON? WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. HEY WHOA! GET AWAY! DID YOU WATCH IT? YES. SO THE STUMBLE. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU REMEMBER OR SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK YOU SEE IN THE VIDEO? SOMETHING I REMEMBERED? AFTER YOU GRABBED ONTO THEIR TUBE, STOPPED THEM, WALKED AROUND THEIR THEIR TUBES. YOU TOOK A FEW STEPS DOWN RIVER AND STOOD IN THE PATH THEY WERE FLOATING IN RIGHT FORM, MULTIPLE. OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, MR. MEW? COULD YOU SAY IT AGAIN AFTER YOU LEFT THEIR TUBES THAT FIRST TIME, YOU TOOK A FEW STEPS DOWNSTREAM AND STOOD IN THEIR PATH WHERE THEY WOULD NEED TO FLOAT, WHERE THEY WERE FLOATING RIGHT? FOR A FEW SECONDS? YES. YOU DIDN'T WALK OFF TO THE SOUTH SHORE, WHICH WAS CLOSE AT THAT POINT, RIGHT? I THOUGHT I WALKED FARTHER, FAR AWAY FROM THEM, THAT THEY I MEAN, I DIDN'T EVEN WATCH THEM ANYMORE AT THAT POINT, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE IN, YOU KNOW, AT THAT POINT IN TIME. BUT I WAS STILL LOOKING FOR MY GOGGLES. NOW. ARE YOU DENYING THAT YOU STOOD RIGHT IN THE PATH OF THEIR TUBES? OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. YES. NOW WHEN YOU RAN UP ON THESE BOYS AND GRABBED ON TO THEIR TUBES AND MADE CONTACT WITH THEIR LEGS. YOU WEREN'T SAYING ANYTHING AT THAT POINT, RIGHT? NO, YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING LIKE, HEY, I THINK THAT'S MY PHONE OR ARIEL'S PHONE. I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING ANYTHING. YOU'VE SEEN THE VIDEO, RIGHT? YOU JUST RAN UP AND GRABBED ON TO HIM, RIGHT? IT APPEARS THAT WAS SAYING NOTHING. GRAB THE SCREEN. CAN WE GO UP TO THE SCREEN? WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SOME MORE FRAMES HERE. WE'RE STARTING 22ND. MARK, I BELIEVE. YOU STOOD IN FRONT OF THEIR TUBES RIGHT? THIS IS AT THE 23 SECOND MARK. FOR A BRIEF MOMENT. ALL RIGHT, KEEP GOING. STOP. AT THAT POINT, YOU HAD THE ENTIRE RIVER OPEN TO MOVE IN ANY DIRECTION, RIGHT? RIGHT YOU CHOSE TO JUST WALK A FEW STEPS DIRECTLY DOWNSTREAM FROM WHERE THEIR TUBES WERE, RIGHT? CORRECT THE BOYS WERE YELLING AT YOU AT THIS POINT, RIGHT. YOU REMEMBER THAT? YEP. THEY WERE MAKING A COMMOTION RIGHT? THEY WERE LOUD. AND THAT ATTRACTED THE ATTENTION OF THE FOLKS IN THE CARLSON GROUP. RIGHT YOU'VE TESTIFIED THAT, MADDIE. MADDIE COHEN WALKED OVER, RIGHT? YEP. YOU WALKED TOWARDS HER? YES. AND THE WATER LEVEL AT THE SPOT THAT YOU HAD CONTACT WITH MADDIE WAS ABOUT ANKLE DEEP FROM THE VIDEO. FROM THE VIDEO? YES. YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT HART YOU WERE STANDING AND REALLY SHALLOW WATER, RIGHT? YEAH MADDIE TOLD YOU TO LEAVE THE AREA RIGHT? SHE DIDN'T SAY SAY IT THAT WAY, BUT YES, SHE SAID GO, GO, GO. AND SHE'S LIKE, SHE SWORE AT YOU TOO. BUT SHE WAS TELLING YOU TO GO, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU DIDN'T GO. I WAS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER. WHAT I WAS DOING IN THE RIVER. YOU DIDN'T LEAVE, RIGHT? NO, NOT ON THE RIVER. HOLD ON, HOLD ON. IRRELEVANT. NO LEGAL BASIS. THAT. OVERRULED IT'S IRRELEVANT. YOU DID NOT LEAVE RIGHT AT THE TIME THAT SHE CAME UP. NO WHEN SHE CAME UP AND SAID, GO, GO, GO, YOU CHOSE TO STAY, RIGHT? I WANTED TO TALK. YOU DIDN'T LIKE THAT. SHE WAS YELLING AT YOU, RIGHT? I ONLY HAD LIKE 2 OR 3 SECONDS OF DIRECT VERBAL OR WHATEVER. AND CLEARLY, LIKE YOU CLEARLY DIDN'T LIKE SHE WAS SWEARING AT YOU. RIGHT AND WHAT YOU TOLD HER WAS NOT THAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR A PHONE, BUT THAT THESE BOYS TOOK YOUR GOGGLES RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I TOLD HER. IF IT'S ON THE VIDEO, DID YOU SAY IT? IF IT'S ON THE VIDEO. YOU NEVER MENTIONED YOU WERE LOOKING FOR A PHONE. I DON'T REMEMBER MY CONVERSATION WITH HER. IN FACT, AFTER YOU TOLD HER THAT THEY TOOK YOUR GOGGLES, YOU NEVER SAID ANOTHER WORD, RIGHT? AFTER THAT, RIGHT? OF COURSE I DID, TALKING ABOUT YOUR ANGER SCALE AT THE POINT WHERE MADDIE COHEN WAS YELLING AT YOU AND POINTING AT YOU AND SWEARING AT YOU, WHERE WAS YOUR ANGER SCALE? ONE. AND EVEN WITH YOUR ANGER SCALE BEING ONLY ONE, YOU STARTED TOUCHING, FIDGETING WITH THE KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO. TIMESTAMP WE'RE READY. IT'S TIMESTAMP 135. THAT'S YOU TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE IN YOUR POCKET, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND AT THIS POINT, YOU'VE GOT YOUR BACK TO THE TWO GIRLS WHO WERE YELLING AT YOU RIGHT? IT'S POSSIBLE. SO EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE FEARING FOR YOUR LIFE, YOU TURNED. WE SAID AT THAT TIME, OVERALL, LET'S GET THE QUESTION OUT. YOU TURNED YOUR BACK ON THESE FOLKS RIGHT? WHERE AM I? IN THAT, LOCKER SECTION, AS REFERENCED TO THE OTHER PEOPLE. I GET TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT. OKAY? ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE BACK AT THE 135 MARK THAT WE JUST WATCHED. YOU'VE TURNED YOUR BACK ON THESE FOLKS, RIGHT? OKAY. IS THAT IS THAT TRUE? YES, I SEE THAT. RIGHT. YOU'RE TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE. BUT YOU GOT YOUR BACK TO THEM, RIGHT? I SEE THAT IN A PICTURE. TURN YOUR BACK UP. IF YOU'RE SCARED OF LIKE. AND SO AT THAT POINT. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TURNED YOUR BACK ON THESE FOLKS IF YOU HAD FEAR OF THEM. RIGHT? OBJECTION. MISCHARACTERIZED AS TESTIMONY. OVERRULED. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. YES. WE'LL PLAY A CLIP. NEXT QUESTION PLEASE. WE'RE GOING TO PLAY A CLIP HERE. JUDGE WE'RE STARTING AT 126. JUST PLAY IT. WE CAN HAVE THE SCREEN . STOP STOPPING AT 135. SO IN THAT CLIP, THAT'S THE POINT WHERE YOU HAD WAVED AT YOUR FRIENDS, RIGHT ? YOU TURNED YOUR BACK ON THE GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE AREA, AND YOU'RE TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE, RIGHT? AND AT THAT POINT, YOU CALLED OUT TO YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE YOU WERE I THINK YOU HAD SAID, AND MAYBE I'M WRONG, THAT YOUR FEAR SCALE WAS GOING UP AT THAT POINT. IS THAT NOT RIGHT? I SEE LOTS OF PEOPLE AROUND ME, AND I WANTED SOMEBODY TO BE ON MY SIDE. RIGHT. YOUR FEAR SCALE IS GOING UP, SO YOU TRIED TO WAVE YOUR BUDDIES OVER, RIGHT? CREEPING UP. YEAH AND AS IT'S CREEPING UP, YOU'RE FIDGETING WITH YOUR KNIFE. IT APPEARS THAT WAY AT SOME POINT. AND EVEN THOUGH YOUR FEAR LEVEL IS CREEPING UP AT THAT POINT AND YOU'VE CALLED FOR HELP FROM YOUR FRIENDS OR AT LEAST WAVED FOR HELP, YOU TURNED YOUR BACK, RIGHT? YES AT ONE POINT, YOU TURN YOUR HEAD AND YOU STARE AT THE GROUP OF 17 YEAR OLD BOYS RIGHT? DO YOU REMEMBER DOING THAT? I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I DO PUT IT INTO CONTEXT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE POINT WHEN MADDIE COHEN TRIED TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM THOSE BOYS. DO YOU REMEMBER DOING THAT? YES AND ONE SECOND RIGHT THERE. IF WE CAN GET THE FRAME UP. WHERE? A TIMESTAMP 116. THAT'S THE LOOK THAT YOU GAVE TO THOSE BOYS, RIGHT AT THAT TIME. AT 116. YES, THAT'S. LOOK ON YOUR FACE. YEAH, THAT'S AN ANGRY LOOK. NOT TO ME. I WAS ANNOYED MORE THAN FRUSTRATED, BUT NOT ANGRY. AT THE POINT WHERE WERE YOU? YOU LOOKED AT THE BOYS WITH THAT EXPRESSION ON YOUR FACE. WHATEVER IT WAS, YOU HAD THE ENTIRE RIVER IN FRONT OF YOU OPEN TO WALK TO, RIGHT? THAT'S TRUE. CORRECT AND INSTEAD YOU CHOSE TO TURN BACK AROUND WHERE MADDIE COHEN WAS. RIGHT I STOOD MY GROUND. I BASICALLY STAYED IN THE SAME LOCATION. I DIDN'T GO TOWARDS ANYBODY AT THAT POINT. YOU DIDN'T TAKE A STEP AWAY EITHER, DID YOU? NO AND AT THAT POINT, THEN THAT'S WHEN RILEY MADISON JOINS HER, AND YOU'VE GOT MADISON AND RILEY STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU. RIGHT. I SUPPOSE THAT'S THE TIME. YEAH TWO GIRLS. YEAH. AND THESE TWO GIRLS STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU TOUCHED YOUR SHOULDERS SOMEWHAT. RIGHT? YOU KNOW. IS THAT A YES? YES. YOU NEVER STUMBLED BACKWARDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WASN'T A SOMEWHAT, BUT. WELL, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO. I THINK WE SHOULD CLARIFY STUFF. YOU WE'RE GOING TO START A LITTLE BIT EARLIER THAN THE PART. I WANTED TO START AT THIS 135. IT'S AT THE 135 MARK. AGAIN, IF WE CAN PUT THE SCREEN UP. YOU TAKE THE SCREEN DOWN. OKAY STARTING AT 134. SO AT THAT POINT, YOU'RE TOUCHING YOUR KNIFE BEFORE MADDIE AND RILEY ARE STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU, RIGHT? IT APPEARS THAT WAY. STOP YOU HAD SAID THAT YOUR FEAR LEVEL WAS RISING. YOU HAD WAVED TO YOUR FRIENDS, RIGHT ? THAT WAS THE LOOK ON YOUR FACE AT THE TIME, CORRECT? YOU'RE SMILING. I'M CONFUSED. YOU'RE SMILING. I'M CONFUSED. YOU'RE NOT SMILING. THAT'S NOT A SMILE. YES. LET'S MOVE ON. PLEASE TURN THE SCREEN ON. WE GET THE SCREEN BACK . STOP ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAD BEEN FIDGETING WITH YOUR KNIFE MULTIPLE TIMES. YOU'VE GOT RILEY MADISON IN FRONT OF YOU. I BELIEVE HER TESTIMONY WAS 115 POUND WOMAN. YOU GOT MADDIE COHEN ON YOUR OTHER SIDE. THIS IS WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO PULL OUT YOUR KNIFE RIGHT, MA'AM. OVERRULED I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. WHAT DOES HER WAY HAVE TO DO WITH ME? SIR, YOU DON'T GET TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT. YOU PULLED OUT YOUR KNIFE. AT THIS POINT, WITH THESE TWO GIRLS STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU, RIGHT? YES. AND YOU HELD IT DOWN BY YOUR BELT BELTLINE. RIGHT YES. AND YOU OPENED IT UP, RIGHT? YES. AND THIS IS BEFORE YOU HAD BEEN PUNCHED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU HAD THAT KNIFE READY WITH THESE TWO GIRLS STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU. OBJECTION AS TO USE OF THE TERMS GIRLS OR WOMEN? WOMEN. PARDON ME. RIGHT AND YOU DIDN'T HOLD IT UP AND SAY, HEY, I HAVE A KNIFE RIGHT TO ME. THAT WOULD BE A THREAT. I'M NOT ASKING YOU THAT. YOU DID NOT HOLD IT UP. NO. AND YOU DIDN'T. IN FACT, YOU HELD IT DOWN BY YOUR SIDE RIGHT? OBJECTION OVERRULED. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU DID? YES. YOU DIDN'T TAKE A STEP BACK AND BRANDISH IT AND SAY, HEY, BACK UP. I HAVE A KNIFE RIGHT? CORRECT. YOU OPENED IT DOWN LOW AND THEN YOU HELD IT DOWN LOW BY YOUR SIDE, RIGHT? CORRECT AND AS YOU'RE DOING THAT , YOU'RE SMILING RIGHT? THAT'S NOT A SMILE. WELL, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO. I'M I'M OVERWHELMED. AND ANNOYED. AND THAT'S YOU HOLDING YOUR KNIFE DOWN BY YOUR BELT LINE RIGHT? YES. WHEN YOU PULLED IT OUT AND OPENED IT UP, YOU HELD IT WITH THE BLADE FACING UP, RIGHT? I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION, BUT IN THE VIDEO. YES. AND IT BECOMES IMPORTANT LATER WHEN YOU ARE, WHEN YOU STAB AJ BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T TRY TO CUT HIM DOWN, YOU CUT HIM UP RIGHT? RIGHT. THERE WAS NOT MY INTENT. OVERRULED I BELIEVE THE WITNESS ANSWERED THE QUESTION. YOU HAD THE KNIFE BLADE UP, AND YOU'RE SAYING YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT? I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION. AS YOU'RE HOLDING IT THERE, YOU'VE GOT YOUR THUMB ON THE BOTTOM OF THE HANDLE RIGHT? RIGHT. YEAH. LAID UP. I SEE THAT BLADES POINTING AT IT LOOKS LIKE AT MADDIE COHEN. RIGHT YES. NOBODY ELSE. WELL, STRIKE THAT. AFTER YOU OPENED THAT KNIFE, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YOUR FEAR LEVEL WENT DOWN A LITTLE BIT? BECAUSE NOW YOU HAD YOUR KNIFE OPEN? NO. ALL RIGHT. WAS YOUR FEAR LEVEL GOING UP AT THAT POINT? I THINK YOU SAID THAT EARLIER. THE WHOLE SITUATION IS WAS BOILING UP. SO WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR KNIFE OPEN, YOU TAKE A COUPLE STEPS BACK, STEP BACKWARDS TO GET AWAY FROM THE SITUATION. I STOOD MY GROUND. I STAYED IN PLACE. YOU NEVER BACKED UP ONE STEP, DID YOU? KNOW YOU HAD YOUR KNIFE OUT AND YOU WERE PREPARED TO USE IT TO DEFEND MYSELF? AT THAT POINT, THERE'S NOTHING TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM, RIGHT? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY, NOW YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT YOU DID DO SOMETHING TO MADDIE COHEN, WHICH STARTED OFF THIS FIGHT. RIGHT? OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. OVERRULED YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. YES. ALL RIGHT, MR. SMITH, WOULD YOU PLEASE REPHRASE THE QUESTION? I WILL, YOUR HONOR. YOU'RE TESTIFYING TODAY THAT YOU DID ACTUALLY MAKE PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH MADDIE COHEN, RIGHT BEFORE YOU WERE PUNCHED OR ANYTHING ELSE. RIGHT I MAY HAVE. I NEVER THAT WELL, I REMEMBER WHAT I SAID, BUT I WENT OVER TO SHE WAS WRITING MY FACE RIGHT IN MY SPACE YELLING. AND I COULD SMELL THE ALCOHOL IN HER BREATH. BUT YOU'D BEEN DRINKING, TOO, SO MIGHT HAVE BEEN YOUR BREATH. I DIDN'T HAVE VODKA AND ALL THE OTHER GARBAGE. MY POINT IS, TODAY YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU DID SOMETHING PHYSICAL TO MADISON COHEN BEFORE YOU WERE PUNCHED RIGHT? CORRECT. I DIDN'T I DON'T KNOW IF I TOUCHED HER OR NOT. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT I DID. IF YOUR FRIEND SERGIO TESTIFIED LAST WEEK THAT HE SAW YOU PUSH HER AND SHE WENT FLYING BACK A COUPLE OF STEPS, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED, RIGHT? OBJECTION TO FORM. SUSTAINED WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN SERGIO TESTIFIED AS TO FORM IRRELEVANT . AFTER YOU PUSHED MADDIE COHEN, ONLY ONE PERSON EVER PUNCHED YOU, RIGHT? FROM THE VIDEO. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I SEE. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED THEN AT THAT TIME. I'M NOT ASKING YOU WHAT YOU REMEMBER. I'M ASKING WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. I GOT PUNCHED, NO FOUNDATION SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION YOU SAW IN THE VIDEO THAT ONLY ONE PERSON EVER PUNCHED YOU, RIGHT? YES OBJECTION. IT'S CROSS. IT'S NOT. YES. OBJECTION! SUSTAINED. LET'S MOVE ON. YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU WENT DOWN, AND YOU FELL DOWN IN THE WATER WHEN YOU WERE PUNCHED, RIGHT? YES. AND YOU INDICATED, I THINK, THAT YOU WERE PUNCHED IN YOUR JAW. I THINK ON YOUR LEFT SIDE OF YOUR BODY. YES YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU FELL BACK IN THE WATER AND HIT YOUR HEAD, RIGHT? YES. YOU DID NOT DROP YOUR KNIFE NIGHT. YOU HELD ON TO IT WHEN YOU FELL DOWN IN THE WATER. YES WHEN DANTE CARLSON HIT YOU, HE WAS HOLDING A CAN OF BEER IN ONE HAND. RIGHT YES. HE WAS FIGHTING YOU WITH ONE HAND? YES YOU. NEVER SUFFERED ANY KIND OF BRUISING OR CUTS TO YOUR FACE FROM THIS INCIDENT. RIGHT ON THE INSIDE OF MY CHEEK. YOU CUT THE INSIDE OF YOUR CHEEK? YES. YOU NEVER HAD ANY BRUISING ON YOUR JAW, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER, I MEAN, I HAD A BEER BEARD. I COULDN'T TELL YOU WEREN'T BLEEDING FROM YOUR FACE ANYWHERE . NO, NOT THAT I KNOW. LET'S PLAY THE VIDEO OF HIM STABBING. ONCE YOU'RE KNOCKED DOWN IN THE WATER, AJ MADISON COMES UP TO YOU AND PRESS PUSHES ON YOUR BACK RIGHT. OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. SUSTAINED WE'LL PLAY THE VIDEO . YOU WERE PUSHED IN THE BACK BY AJ MADISON, RIGHT? OBJECTION! NO FOUNDATION. OVERRULED. IN RESPONSE, YOU GOT UP OUT OF THE WATER, RIGHT. YOU TAKE YOUR KNIFE AND YOUR RIGHT HAND WITH THE BLADE UP. RIGHT. OBJECTION IS IN NARRATION. OVERRULED THAT'S WHAT YOU DID, RIGHT? I STOOD ON MY HAND. YES. THAT WAY. YOU JABBED IT INTO HIS BELLY. ABOUT THE SAME TIME HE HIT ME IN THE THROAT. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING. YES. YOU JABBED IT INTO HIS BELLY, RIGHT? YES. INSTEAD OF PULLING IT OUT, YOU PULLED UP, RIGHT? BECAUSE I HAD SO MUCH TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT. YOU PULLED UP. I DID NOT PULL UP. I LOOK AT THE ANGLE OF MY ARM. WE'RE AT. WE'RE STOPPED AT TIMESTAMP 156. YOU SEE YOUR KNIFE? YES. HOW CLOSE IT IS TO HIS JAW. HIS CHIN? YES THAT'S BECAUSE WHEN YOU STABBED HIM, INSTEAD OF PULLING OUT, YOU WENT UP RIGHT? RIGHT I WAS FALLING BACKWARDS WITH THE KNIFE IN MY ARM, IN MY HAND. AND THE ANGLE OF MY ARM WAS ABOUT THE SAME. I JUST GOT HIT IN THE THROAT IN THIS FRAME OF THE VIDEO. THE KNIFE'S POINTING STRAIGHT UP, RIGHT? YES YOU WENT IN, PULLED UP, AND IT'S. IT'S BY THE TIME YOU GOT DONE UP BY HIS FACE, YOUR KNIFE'S POINTING STRAIGHT UP. OBJECTION ASKED. OVERRULED YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. IT'S STRAIGHT UP. AT THAT POINT, TONY CARLSON CAME IN TO BREAK UP THE FIGHT. RIGHT. SPECULATION HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TONY CARLSON IS DOING. OVERRULED YOU CAN ASK THE QUESTION. HE CAN ANSWER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING. YOU KNOW THAT. HE TOLD DANTE CARLSON TO BACK UP, RIGHT? OBJECTION OVERRULED. DO I KNOW FROM VIDEO AND FROM TESTIMONY? YES. AT THE TIME, I DIDN'T KNOW. IN. AFTER YOU STABBED AJ MADISON, YOU WERE PUSHED BACK INTO THE WATER RIGHT? JUST SORRY. IT'S PJ CARLSON. PARDON ME? NO, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT PJ MARTIN. IT'S AJ MADISON. HE'S NOT PART OF THE CARLSON FAMILY. MARTIN. THANK YOU. PARDON ME. AFTER YOU STABBED AJ MARTIN, YOU WERE PUSHED BACK INTO THE WATER RIGHT? YES. NOBODY JUMPED ON TAPIA. NO. NOBODY WAS KICKING AT YOU OR PUNCHING YOU. NO, YOU'RE JUST IN THE WATER BY YOURSELF, RIGHT? APPARENTLY, YES. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO STARTING AT ONE TIMESTAMP, 155. THAT'S YOU IN THE WATER STILL HOLDING YOUR KNIFE RIGHT? PARDON ME? THIS IS BEFORE YOU. YOU GOT UP. AT THIS POINT, YOU'RE STANDING THERE. THERE'S NOBODY HITTING YOU. NOBODY'S PUNCHING YOU, NOBODY'S KICKING YOU. RIGHT. OBJECTION. THAT'S THE VIDEO. HE'S NOT STANDING. PLEASE COME UP . LET'S CONTINUE. NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE. IN ANY EVENT, YOU WERE SITTING IN THE WATER AFTER AJ MARTIN PUSHED YOU OVER RIGHT? I LANDED ON MY ON MY BUTT IN IN THE RIVER. BUT AT THAT POINT, THE FIGHT DIDN'T CONTINUE. PEOPLE WEREN'T PUNCHING ON YOU, RIGHT? I AT THAT TIME, I COULDN'T TELL WHAT WAS GOING ON AROUND YOU. THAT'S AT THE POINT THAT TONY CARLSON CAME OVER, WAS YELLING AT PEOPLE TO BACK UP. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT FROM THE VIDEO YOU DON'T YOU DON'T HAVE A MEMORY OF THAT IN YOUR HEAD. HE HE SEPARATED DANTE FROM YOU, RIGHT? NO FOUNDATION. OVERRULED RIGHT. IF IT'S FROM MY MEMORY, I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. TONY CARLSON NEVER PUNCHED YOU. CORRECT CORRECT. HE NEVER KICKED YOU? NEVER PUSHED YOU. OBJECTION OVERRULED. NO. AND YOU TURNED AROUND AND YOU STABBED HIM TWICE, RIGHT? I COULDN'T SEE, I COULDN'T HEAR, I DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS PUNCHING ME, TOUCHING ME, SHOVING ME. NOTHING. I WAS FEARING FOR MY LIFE. YOU STABBED THE GUY WHO TRIED TO BREAK UP THE FIGHT TWICE, RIGHT? OBJECTION OVERRULED. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. AND LUCKILY FOR HIM, HE WAS ABLE TO BLOCK YOUR FIRST STAB. SO YOU STABBED HIM AGAIN, RIGHT? AND MILLISECONDS TO THANK RILEY. MADISON AFTER YOU STABBED TONY CARLSON, YOU TURNED AROUND, YOU GOT UP, YOU TURNED AROUND, AND YOU SLICED RILEY, MADISON THROUGH THE LEFT SIDE OF HER BODY. RIGHT YES. SHE WASN'T PUNCHING YOU OR KICKING YOU. SHE CAME AT ME. SHE HAD HER HANDS ON ME AT THE TIME YOU STABBED HER. SHE HAD YOUR HANDS. HER HANDS ON YOU? YES. THIS THIS THIS 115 POUND WOMAN ATTACKED YOU WHILE YOU'RE STANDING THERE HOLDING A KNIFE. SHE COULD HAVE BEEN 500 POUNDS. I DON'T KNOW, I I'M SORRY, SIR, BUT I, I'VE NEVER TOLD ANYONE EVER, THAT RILEY MADISON ATTACKED YOU. AND THAT'S WHY YOU STABBED HER, RIGHT? NO. YOU'RE SAYING IT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME. I DON'T REMEMBER THIS WHOLE THING. AFTER YOU STABBED RILEY MADISON, ISAAC SHUMAN TRIES TO PUSH YOU RIGHT, AND HE LANDS HIS HANDS ON MY THROAT. YES, BUT HIS HANDS ORIGINALLY WEREN'T ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR THROAT. THEY WERE ON YOUR SHOULDER AND YOUR CHEST. RIGHT. I DIDN'T TAKE MEASUREMENTS OR. BUT. YEAH, FROM THE FROM THE PICTURE. YES. AND AS SOON AS HE TOUCHES YOU, YOU STAB UP INTO HIS HEART WITH YOUR KNIFE. RIGHT. NO FOUNDATION. OVERRULED. HE WENT FOR MY THROAT AND I DEFENDED MYSELF. YES. ARE YOU SAYING WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE VIDEO? START WE'RE GOING TO START AT 202. AND FOR ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO WATCH, YOU MIGHT WANT TO AVERT YOUR EYES. OKAY. READY. STOP IT! WHEN HIS HANDS GET OUT. RIGHT THERE. WHAT'S THE TIME FOR YOU TO. UNTIL WE'RE AT 205. THE TIMESTAMP ON THE VIDEO. THAT'S ISAAC SHUMAN, RIGHT? IF WE DON'T. RIGHT HIS LEFT HAND ON YOUR ARM. RIGHT, RIGHT. HIS RIGHT HAND ON YOUR CHEST. RIGHT. RIGHT THERE. NOT ON YOUR THROAT. AND THAT PARTICULAR, FRAME. CORRECT YOUR RIGHT HAND IS COCKED, YOUR ELBOWS BENT RIGHT. OKAY. AND YOU'VE GOT THE KNIFE IN YOUR HAND? YES LET'S PLAY IT THROUGH, PLEASE. AND AS HE'S PUSHING YOU, YOU JAM YOUR KNIFE UP INTO HIS HEART THROUGH HIS RIBCAGE. RIGHT AFTER HE TOUCHES MY THROAT AND PUSHES ME BACK. YES. CORRECT. AS YOUR ARM IS MOVING UP TO STAB HIM, YOU ACTUALLY MOVED HIS ARM CLOSER UP YOUR FARTHER UP YOUR BODY WITH YOUR OWN MOVEMENT. RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT. I DIDN'T SEE THAT. AT THE TIME THAT THIS INCIDENT HAPPENED, YOU AGREE YOU WEIGHED 248 POUNDS? YES NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU STABBED SO FAR IN THE VIDEO WERE ARMED IN ANY FASHION, RIGHT ? RIGHT. YOU TOLD AN ELABORATE STORY ABOUT PEOPLE PULLING KNIVES ON YOU, RIGHT? ARGUMENTATIVE AS TO FORM. OVERRULED. RIGHT. YOU MADE UP THAT STORY TO BRANDI HART. LIEUTENANT HART? YES I DON'T REMEMBER THAT, BUT I SAW THE VIDEO. YES AT NO POINT DID ANYBODY PULL ANY KNIFE ON YOU, RIGHT? CORRECT. YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAD A KNIFE. CORRECT. YOU HAD SAID EARLIER THAT YOU HAD WAVED FOR YOUR FRIENDS TO COME OVER BECAUSE YOU'RE SO SCARED, RIGHT? RIGHT DURING THE. WE'RE MOVING BACK IN TIME NOW. OH, YEAH. EARLIER YOU HAD WAVED. WE SAW THE VIDEO. YOU SAID YOU'D WAVED TO YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE YOU WERE SCARED. YOUR FEAR LEVEL WAS AT WHATEVER. AND IN FACT, ARIEL CAME OVER, RIGHT? YES. AND HE'S IN THE GROUP AT THE POINT THAT RILEY MADISON'S STANDING THERE BLEEDING INTO THE RIVER. RIGHT. YOU STAND RIGHT BEHIND HER. YEP. AND AT THE TIME THAT YOU STABBED TONY CARLSON, ARIEL'S RIGHT THERE, RIGHT IN THE GROUP. CORRECT I SEE THAT IN THE VIDEO. YES. AND WHEN YOU STABBED ISAAC SCHULMAN, HE'S ALSO STANDING THERE, RIGHT? I DIDN'T SEE HIM THERE AT THE TIME, BUT YES, IN THE VIDEO. YES. SO THIS NARRATIVE ABOUT IT BEING 13 ON ONE, YOU HAD A FRIEND THERE, RIGHT? FORM YOUR FRIEND WAS STANDING RIGHT THERE. HE'S IN THE VIDEO RIGHT IN THE VIDEO. I DON'T REMEMBER HIM BEING THERE. DID YOU STOP COMING WALKING DOWN STREAM? I DON'T REMEMBER YOU WAVED FOR HIM, RIGHT? I WAVED AT MY GROUP. AT NO POINT. WHEN YOU STABBED TONY RILEY AND ISAAC, DID YOU CALL OUT TO YOUR FRIEND AND SAY, HEY, HELP ME. THEY'RE ATTACKING ME, RIGHT? EVEN THOUGH HE'S IN THE FRAME AND YOU CAN. HE'S CLOSE TO THE ACTION. SO TO SPEAK. YOU NEVER SAID THAT RIGHT? I WAS STUNNED, I HAD COULDN'T TALK . THE LAST PERSON YOU STABBED WAS DANTE CARLSON. RIGHT YES. AND THIS IS. IN THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, EVERYTHING ELSE HAD HAPPENED RIGHT? YES. AT THE FORUM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVERYTHING ELSE SUSTAINED. ALL THE OTHER STABBINGS HAD ALREADY OCCURRED, RIGHT AT THE POINT THAT YOU STABBED DANTE CARLSON. YES. HE WASN'T PUNCHING YOU AT THAT POINT. I WAS SURROUNDED, PEOPLE WERE COMING AT ME. I WAS VERY I JUST CAME, CAME UP A COUPLE OF TIMES BEING PUNCHED IN THE HEAD, PUNCHED IN THE MOUTH. I FELL ON ON RIVER ROCKS. I WAS IN PAIN. I WAS HURTING. TONY CARLSON HAD BROKEN UP THE FIGHT BETWEEN YOU AND DANTE AND DANTE NEVER HIT YOU AGAIN. AFTER THAT, DID HE? EJECTION. THAT'S SUSTAINED FORM. PLEASE REPHRASE. AT THE POINT THAT YOU STABBED DANTE CARLSON, HE WAS NOT FIGHTING WITH YOU, RIGHT? CORRECT. HE HAD NOT PUNCHED YOU IMMEDIATELY BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO STAB HIM. CORRECT. IN FACT, YOU TOOK A COUPLE STEPS TOWARD HIM TO STAB HIM, DIDN'T YOU? I THOUGHT HE WAS ATTACKING ME . SO AT THAT POINT, YOU STABBED FIVE PEOPLE AND YOU DECIDE TO LEAVE THE AREA. IS THAT TRUE? I WALKED AWAY, YOU WALKED UP TO ERNESTO, RIGHT? YES YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT BEING ATTACKED, RIGHT? I DIDN'T, I WAS IN SHOCK. YOU SAID THEY TOOK MY KNIFE, RIGHT? THORNSTOWE I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. BUT THAT'S WHAT I SAID, ACCORDING TO ALL THE VIDEO. AND. WELL, IF ERNESTO SAID THAT, THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID. YEAH YOU STILL GOT THE KNIFE ON YOUR PERSON, RIGHT? EVEN THOUGH YOU JUST TOLD THEM THEY TOOK YOUR KNIFE, YOU STILL HAD IT. RIGHT? NO. WE'RE NOT. WHEN I REACHED THE TUBES. NO, NO, WHEN NESTO CAME WALKING UP AND YOU WALKED UP TO HIM, YOU TOLD HIM THEY TOOK MY KNIFE THE FIRST THING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, RIGHT? THAT'S. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. OKAY INSTEAD OF WALKING TO YOUR GROUP, YOU WALKED UP TO THE SOUTH SIDE, SOUTH SHORE OF THE LAKE OF THE RIVER, RIGHT? YES. AND ON THE WAY YOU WASHED OFF THE KNIFE IN THE RIVER. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. WELL, YOU HAD BLOOD ON YOUR HAND AND ON THE KNIFE, RIGHT? YES. WHEN YOU LEFT THE AREA. RIGHT. YEAH WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO YOUR GROUP, NOBODY SAW ANY BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS OR. RIGHT OBJECTION. FOUNDATION SUSTAINED. AT SOME POINT, YOU RINSED YOUR HAND AND THE KNIFE IN THE WATER, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. BUT WHAT YOU DO REMEMBER IS THROWING THE KNIFE UP INTO THE BUSHES ON THE SOUTH BANK. RIGHT ON THE BANK? YES AND THEN YOU FINALLY WALKED OVER TO YOUR GROUP. RIGHT AS I WAS WALKING. I THREW IT AWAY. YES. NO, NO, YOU WALKED OUT OF YOUR WAY TO GET TO THE SOUTH BANK TO GET RID OF IT, AND THEN WALKED BACK ACROSS THE RIVER TO YOUR GROUP. RIGHT. ARGUMENTATIVE OVERRULED. THAT'S WHAT YOU DID, RIGHT? YES. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A PLAY. THE VIDEO TAKEN BY LARRY AND DAVIS. JUDGE IT'S. IT'S GRAINY, BUT IT'S OF SOME VALUE. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? YES WELL, MAYBE THIS WILL BE A GOOD TIME TO TAKE A BREAK.RETAKE THE WITNESS STAND. YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. SMESTAD, MR. I WANT TO ASK YOU SOME MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STABBING OF DANTE CARLSON. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT LARRY DAVIS WAS RECORDING THAT PART OF IT? NO. AND YOU'VE SEEN THAT THAT VIDEO HERE IN COURT? YEAH YOU ARE THE PERSON IN THE DARK SHORTS, CORRECT. AND THAT VIDEO, IT WAS NOT VERY CLEAR. SO I COULDN'T MAKE OUT WHO WAS WHO. IF THERE'S A PERSON WEARING DARK SHORTS WITH THE SAME BODY TYPE AS YOU IN THE VIDEO, IS IT YOU FEAR? HOLD ON, HOLD ON. SUSTAINED. WELL, WE'RE GOING TO WATCH THE VIDEO. WE'RE GOING TO WATCH IT THROUGH IT FULL SPEED. ON. REALLY EXCITING . WE'RE GOING TO PLAY A PART OF IT. BUT SLOWER, BUT NOT THE NOT THE END PART. WE'RE READY. WHAT'S THE TIME FOR ZERO? SO AT THE VERY BEGINNING. MR. MILLER, DO YOU SEE YOURSELF IN THE LEFT HAND SIDE FOREGROUND, WEARING THE DARK SHORTS? FOR THE FOR THE CURSORS POINTED. I CAN'T MAKE OUT. YOU DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S. YOU KNOW, DID ANYONE ELSE ON THE RIVER HAVE THE SAME BODY SHAPE THAT YOU HAD AT THE TIME? OBJECTION NO. FOUNDATION SUSTAINED. 13 PEOPLE. YOU'VE BEEN IN COURT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIAL, RIGHT? CORRECT. YOU'VE SEEN ALL THESE PEOPLE TESTIFY? YES THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ALL INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT, RIGHT? YES AT THE TIME THAT YOU STABBED THESE FOLKS, THERE WASN'T ANYBODY ELSE IN THAT AREA OF THE RIVER THAT HAD THE SAME BODY SHAPE AS YOU. CORRECT. OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. SUSTAINED IT'S THE SAME QUESTION. YOU'RE AWARE THAT DANTE CARLSON'S WEARING SHORTS THAT ARE BLACK ON THE BOTTOM AND LIGHT GRAY ON TOP, RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I LEARNED. I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH SLOWLY. JUDGE. YES. OBJECTION. SUSTAINED. LACK OF FOUNDATION . IN ANY EVENT, AFTER YOU GOT RID OF THE KNIFE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER, YOU WALKED BACK TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RIVER WHERE YOUR GROUP WAS IN THE. AT THE SANDBAR RIGHT? YES. IS THAT YOUR TUBE? DID YOU SIT DOWN IN YOUR TUBE? YES ERIC WILLIAMS FROM YOUR GROUP, REALIZING THAT PEOPLE WERE HURT, LEFT. OBJECTION. FORM HIS BLACK FOUNDATION. THE AIRPORT. SUSTAINED. DID YOU SEE ERIC WILLIAMS LEAVE YOUR GROUP? NO AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOTICE HE WASN'T WITH YOUR GROUP ANYMORE? I DIDN'T DO A HEADCOUNT, SIR. SORRY DID ANYONE ELSE FROM YOUR TUBES GO TO HELP WITH THE FOLKS ON THE RIVER THAT WERE HURT? NO FOUNDATION. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION, I DON'T REMEMBER. I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO ANYBODY IN MY GROUP. WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO YOUR TUBE, YOU PUT YOUR SHIRT BACK ON, RIGHT? I WAS COLD, YES. AND YOU PUT ON YOUR YOUR HAT, RIGHT? YES. AND YOUR SUNGLASSES. YES EVENTUALLY YOU SAW POLICE OFFICERS AND EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIANS SHOW UP ON THE RIVER, RIGHT? YES WADING UP THE RIVER, RIGHT? YES. TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN INJURED AND. OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. OVERRULED. YOU SAW THAT HAPPEN, RIGHT? YES. YOU DIDN'T APPROACH ANYBODY TO SAY YOU WERE ATTACKED AS FAR AS LAW ENFORCEMENT OR EMTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, RIGHT? NO, I JUST PUT MYSELF I WAS AFRAID TO GO IN THAT AREA, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S POLICE PRESENCE EVERYWHERE. YOU WERE AFRAID TO WALK OVER THERE AND TELL THEM, HEY, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. YES, SIR. SO YOU GOT YOUR TUBE AND YOU FLOATED DOWN THE RIVER, NOT IMMEDIATELY. WE WAITED THERE. WE HAD PEOPLE. FROM WHAT? AND FROM WHAT I LEARNED. NOT THAT I REMEMBER THAT CALLED 911. AND YEAH, I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT STUFF, SO I DON'T REMEMBER. SO YOU HAD DO YOU REMEMBER WAITING FOR ERIC WILLIAMS TO COME BACK TO JOIN YOUR GROUP SO YOU COULD LEAVE? I DON'T REMEMBER, ALL RIGHT. DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING, LET'S GO. YOU YOURSELF SAYING THAT? OBJECTION ASKED AND ANSWERED CUMULATIVELY. OVERRULED. OVERRULED. I DON'T REMEMBER. ERNESTO TORRES, HE'S YOUR BEST FRIEND? YES YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM WHAT HAPPENED AS YOU WERE FLOATING AWAY? I DIDN'T TALK TO HIM. I DON'T REMEMBER TALKING TO ANYBODY. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER GOING DOWN. DOWN THE RIVER OR UP THE RIVER. I WAS JUST STUNNED. I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING. YOU DIDN'T TELL HER? NESTO I WAS AFRAID FOR MY LIFE. AND I DID THIS. NO YOU NEVER TOLD ERNESTO THAT I ACTED IN SELF-DEFENSE. I DIDN'T I DON'T REMEMBER TALKING TO ANYBODY. YOU DIDN'T SAY I WAS. I WAS AFRAID THEY WERE GOING TO KILL ME. THESE FOLKS. OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. HE SAID HE DOESN'T REMEMBER. I DON'T REMEMBER. AS YOU WERE LEAVING THE AREA, YOU SAW FOLKS GIVING CPR TO ISAAC SCHUMANN, RIGHT? I DIDN'T SEE THAT. ALL RIGHT. EVENTUALLY YOU MADE IT DOWN TO THE VILLAGE PARK WHERE THE EXIT WAS RIGHT? EVENTUALLY. AND THERE'S SOME VIDEO OF YOU RELAXED IN YOUR TUBE KIND OF PLAYING IN THE WATER WITH YOUR YOUR HAND. RIGHT. OBJECTION IS TO FORM. SUSTAINED. DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING THE VIDEO OF YOU? I REMEMBER SEEING THE VIDEO RELAXING IN YOUR TUBE BEFORE YOU GOT BACK TO THE END TO FORM. SUSTAINED DID YOU SEE THE VIDEO OR NOT? I SAID I DID. WHEN YOU GOT TO VILLAGE PARK, YOUR GROUP EXITED THE RIVER, RIGHT? YES, THERE WAS MULTIPLE POLICE IN THE AREA, RIGHT? YES YOU SAW A UNIFORMED OFFICER WITH HIS GUN DRAWN WALKING TOWARDS YOU, RIGHT? RIGHT YOU DIDN'T APPROACH THAT OFFICER. I WAS AFRAID OF EVERYBODY AT THAT TIME. THAT YOU'RE AFRAID OF THE OFFICER. I WAS AFRAID OF ANYTHING. AND EVERYBODY. I WAS AFRAID OF ANYTHING. I COULDN'T. I WAS STILL IN SHOCK. SO I WAS AFRAID OF EVERYTHING. YES YOU DIDN'T APPROACH THE OFFICER AND SAY THEY TRIED TO KILL ME. I DEFENDED MYSELF. NOTHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO ANYBODY. YOU WALKED RIGHT BY HIM, RIGHT? ALL THAT IS, IS A BLUR. I DON'T REMEMBER IT, ONCE YOU GOT FURTHER UP THE PATH, THOUGH, OTHER OFFICERS WERE ABLE TO PICK YOU OUT OF YOUR GROUP, RIGHT? APPARENTLY, YES. THEY THEY STOPPED YOU. RIGHT BEFORE YOU COULD LEAVE THE PARK. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE POLICE STOPPING YOU AND DETAINING YOU IN THE PARK AFTER THIS INCIDENT? I REMEMBER BEING STOPPED, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS. SURE YOU ARE AWARE THAT THE POLICE HAD A PICTURE OF YOU FROM THE RIVER, RIGHT? OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? I DON'T REMEMBER. DO YOU REMEMBER? THE POLICE HAD TO TAKE YOUR HAT AND GLASSES OFF TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS YOU IN THE PICTURE? NO I WAS FOCUSED ON ONE THING ONLY. THE SOMEBODY WITH A WITH A BAT THAT I'VE SEEN IN THE WOODS. AND ACROSS THAT, WHATEVER BRIDGE, THE LITTLE BRIDGE, RAINBOW BRIDGE, WHATEVER I WAS, I WAS I WAS FOCUSED ON HIM. I WAS VERY AFRAID OF THAT PERSON. DID YOU EVER SAY TO THE OFFICER, HEY, THERE'S A GUY OVER THERE WITH A BAT, AND THAT'S CONCERNING ME. CAN YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? NO YOU'RE PUT INTO A SQUAD CAR RIGHT? YES. YES, SHERIFF KNUDSEN CAME OVER TO MAKE SURE YOU WERE COMFORTABLE. RIGHT? I SAW THAT IN THE VIDEO. YES. YOU DON'T REMEMBER TALKING TO SHERIFF KNUDSEN? DO YOU REMEMBER HIM ASKING YOU? WELL, IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER, YOU DON'T REMEMBER. WE'RE GOING TO PLAY THAT VIDEO. AND THEN I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU. YOUR HONOR, THIS IS THE LONGER VERSION OF THE VIDEO THAT'S BEEN REFERENCED. IT'S A MINUTE AND 59 SECONDS. THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE READY. CAMERA RECORDING STARTED. STILL DOING IT, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY WHAT'S GOING ON? TEMPERATURE. TEMPERATURE IS OKAY IN HERE. YEAH. OKAY SOMEBODY. I HEAR SOMEBODY GOT STABBED, AND I FIT THE DESCRIPTION. YES. YOU DO. ALL RIGHT. YEP. SO WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THAT NOW. DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT ON THE RIVER? I HEARD ABOUT IT. YOU HEARD ABOUT IT? YEAH. AND I SEEN PEOPLE GATHER AROUND IT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I WENT OVER TO TALK TO YOU, SEE IF SOMEBODY SAW ANYTHING, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. OKAY OUR WHOLE GROUP WAS PRETTY INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT WHAT HAPPENED. OKAY. AND THAT'S YOUR WHOLE GROUP OVER THERE? YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO I DON'T KNOW. OKAY. WELL, DID YOU SEE ANYBODY INJURED? NO. YOU DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY INJURED? NO DID YOU SEE ANYBODY FIGHTING? I HEARD PEOPLE SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER. YES. OKAY. YEAH. SCREAMING AND ANGER OR SCREAMING IN PAIN. DO YOU KNOW. EVERYBODY'S DRUNK. SO I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE. BUT I WOULD SAY LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. HE'S SCREAMING OKAY, YOU KNOW, CALLING EACH OTHER NAMES, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S I'VE SEEN THAT ALL DAY FOR ALL YOUR HELP. WE'VE ALL BEEN DRINKING A LOT. I'M SURE THEY'RE DRUNK. I'M SURE THEY'RE DOING, I DON'T KNOW. OKAY, SO 46 KIDS BEING KIDS. KIDS BEING KIDS. WHERE WHERE ARE YOU? WHERE'S YOUR GROUP FROM? 44. NINE. WHERE DID YOU DRIVE FROM TODAY? OH, I DROVE FROM. PRIOR LAKE. FROM PRIOR LAKE. OKAY. ACTUALLY, I DIDN'T WE DIDN'T DRIVE. WE CAME DOWN HERE AND GO TAKE CARE OF YOUR WIFE AND YOU. YEAH. AND YOU MET THE GROUP HERE, YEAH, BUT WE KNOW EACH OTHER. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AS LONG AS THE TEMPERATURE IS GOOD. I'LL CHECK BACK WITH YOU IN A MINUTE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OH, WE'RE. YOU LIED TO SHERIFF KNUDSEN, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION, BUT. YES YOU I YOU TOLD THEM THAT YOU HEARD THERE WAS A STABBING, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THIS STUFF. YOU'RE FISHING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU COULD SAY. I WAS FISHING, I DON'T KNOW, AND YOU ASKED HIM SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED, RIGHT? AGAIN, I DON'T REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION, BUT YOU WERE PRETENDING THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. IS THAT TRUE? NO. AT THE POINT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO SHERIFF KNUDSEN AND SAYING THESE THINGS, YOU DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A VIDEO OF WHAT HAPPENED ON THE RIVER, DID YOU? I DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER I WAS DEAD OR ALIVE AT THAT POINT. SHE ALSO DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT THERE WAS A VIDEO, RIGHT? NO WHEN THE SHERIFF ASKED YOU WHAT HAD HAPPENED, ONE OF YOUR RESPONSES WAS IT WAS KIDS BEING KIDS, RIGHT? I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT CONVERSATION. WE JUST HEARD YOURSELF SAY IT ON THE VIDEO THOUGH, SO OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. I'LL MOVE ON, PRIOR TO BEING TAKEN TO JAIL, YOU WERE TRANSFERRED FROM THAT SQUAD CAR THAT YOU WERE IN TO A DIFFERENT SQUAD CAR, RIGHT? REMEMBER THAT. DO YOU REMEMBER AT SOME POINT, DEPUTY THOMPSON TELLING YOU THAT YOU'RE UNDER ARREST FOR HOMICIDE AND ATTEMPTED HOMICIDE? I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT. WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH LIEUTENANT HART. EVEN THOUGH YOU'D BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU WERE BEING ARRESTED FOR HOMICIDE, YOU PRETENDED TO KNOW THAT TO NOT BE AWARE THAT SOMEONE HAD DIED. RIGHT? FORM OVERRULED. RIGHT. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO LIEUTENANT HART. YOU OVER HERE AT THE JAIL? YEAH. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT CONVERSATION. YOU DON'T RECALL PRETENDING TO NOT BE AWARE THAT SOMEONE HAD DIED? OBJECTION. ASSUMES A FACT. SUSTAINED. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO LIEUTENANT HART. THAT WAS ABOUT FOUR HOURS AFTER YOU'D BEEN ARRESTED, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I LEARNED. AND THEN YOU HAD TIME TO PUT TOGETHER A STORY, RIGHT? NO. OVERALL, YOU HAD FOUR HOURS TO COME UP WITH A STORY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE RIVER BEFORE YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY LIEUTENANT HART, RIGHT? NO YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT TIME. I DIDN'T PUT A STORY TOGETHER. OKAY, SO WHEN YOU TOLD HER THINGS LIKE TWO OF THESE BOYS PULLED KNIVES ON ME, YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH. NO, THAT WAS A STORY, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND WHEN YOU SAID THAT, YOU SOMEHOW MANAGED TO GRAB ONE OF THE BOYS ARMS AND BEND THEIR WRIST BACK AND STAB THEM WITH THEIR OWN KNIFE, THAT'S A STORY YOU MADE UP, RIGHT? I TOLD HER WHAT I REMEMBERED. YOU REMEMBER DOING THAT? NO, I EVERYTHING I TOLD HER IS WHAT I REMEMBERED AT THAT TIME. AT THE TIME YOU TOLD HER THESE THINGS. YOU. YOU THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD GRABBED SOMEONE'S ARM AND STABBED THEM WITH THEIR OWN KNIFE. AS YOU CAN SEE, I WAS VERY CONFUSED. AND DID YOU NOT TESTIFY EARLIER THAT YOU LIED ABOUT THE KNIFE THAT I DID, AND THAT NOBODY, NOBODY ELSE HAD A KNIFE ON THE RIVER EXCEPT FOR YOU? THAT I LIED ABOUT THE KNIFE. SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, THEN, FOR YOU TO HAVE TWISTED SOMEONE'S ARM AND STABBED THEM WITH THEIR OWN KNIFE. RIGHT I SAW THE VIDEO. NO I'M ASKING WHAT YOU SAID TO LIEUTENANT HART. I DON'T REMEMBER THE INTERVIEW, BUT I SAW THE VIDEO. AND YOU'RE AWARE I. I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT RIGHT. IT'S NOT TRUE. NOT JUST A COUPLE OF LITTLE LIES, BUT LIE ON TOP OF LIE TO LIEUTENANT HART. RIGHT SUSTAINED. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS YOU TOLD HER. YOU SAID THESE BOYS TOOK THESE THE GOGGLES OFF MY HEAD AND THREW THEM DOWN THE RIVER. RIGHT YOU TOLD HER THAT IF THAT'S WHAT THE VIDEO RECORDED. YES RIGHT. YOU TOLD THEM. YOU TOLD HER THAT THESE BOYS TRIED TO PULL DOWN YOUR SHORTS, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN THE VIDEO, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE INTERVIEW. THAT'S A DETAIL YOU ADDED FOR YOUR BENEFIT, RIGHT? NO YOU SAID THESE BOYS ATTACKED YOU RIGHT? YOU TOLD HER THAT MULTIPLE TIMES, RIGHT? I SAW THE VIDEO. DID YOU SAY THAT OR NOT? YES OR NO? I SAID THAT IN THE VIDEO. YES. AND YOU KNEW THAT WASN'T TRUE, RIGHT? SO IN THE VIDEO, I LIED. I TOTALLY LIED ABOUT THE KNIFE. I DIDN'T REMEMBER A LOT OF DETAILS. I DIDN'T REMEMBER OF ANYTHING. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THE INTERVIEW. I JUST LOOKING AT THE VIDEO. IT'S. I CAN LOOK AT IT LIKE ANYBODY WOULD LOOK AT IT FOR THE FIRST TIME. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT. YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT HART THAT THESE BOYS TOLD YOU DON'T RUN AWAY FROM US. YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT? NO FOUNDATION, NO. IN FACT, IT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE. THEY WERE TELLING YOU TO GO RIGHT AND YOU DON'T REMEMBER. YOU TOLD HER THAT A SECOND BOY HAD A KNIFE, ATTACKED YOU WITH THE KNIFE, AND YOU TOOK THAT FROM HIM, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN THE VIDEO. THAT'S NOT TRUE EITHER. RIGHT. RIGHT. THAT'S NOT TRUE . YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU WALKED BACK TO YOUR GROUP. AND THIS IS TALKING TO LIEUTENANT HART. THAT ERNESTO ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD FOUND THE PHONE RIGHT? YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT TO HER? I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT CONVERSATION I HAD WITH HER. THAT WASN'T TRUE EITHER. RIGHT. IF THIS IS ALL PART OF THAT INTERVIEW, I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT HART, THEN. I DON'T REMEMBER THE INTERVIEW. OKAY. I STILL GET TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT. SURE YOU WERE SPECIFICALLY ASKED, DID YOU HAVE A KNIFE RIGHT. DO YOU REMEMBER BEING ASKED THAT? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. BUT I KNOW I WAS YOUR ANSWER TO LIEUTENANT HART WAS NO. NO, ABSOLUTELY NO. RIGHT? RIGHT WHICH I LIKE. I KNOW I LIED ABOUT THE KNIFE. YOU SAID TO HER, WHY DID THEY WANT TO SCARE ME WITH A KNIFE? RIGHT TALKING ABOUT THE BOYS, I MEAN, 17 YEAR OLDS, WHEN NONE OF THEM EVER HAD A KNIFE. RIGHT IS THAT RIGHT? APPARENTLY NOT. YOU SAID I GRABBED IT, MEANING THE KNIFE FROM HIM BECAUSE HE TRIED TO POKE ME WITH IT. DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT? NOPE YOU SAID A WOMAN HITS YOU IN THE EAR. DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT? NO YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE, RIGHT? OBJECTION. FOUNDATION. OVERRULED. YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE. AS YOU SIT HERE NOW, RIGHT? RIGHT. YOU TOLD THE COP, THE POLICE AND LIEUTENANT HART. I THINK THAT YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE FIGHTING AGAINST EACH OTHER. RIGHT. AND I REMEMBER TELLING HER THAT. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, THAT THAT IS COMPLETE, COMPLETELY MADE UP, RIGHT? AGAIN, I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THAT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. IF YOU SAW THE INTERVIEW, YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT HART THAT YOU WANTED TO STAY IN THE AREA AND, YOU KNOW, WATCH THE POLICE COME AND ARREST THESE PEOPLE FOR FIGHTING, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT HART. THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE TRANSCRIPT. YES WHEN YOU WERE TOLD THAT A PERSON HAD DIED, YOUR RESPONSE WAS, IS IT BECAUSE THEY FOUGHT EACH OTHER? THAT'S WHAT YOU TOLD HER, RIGHT? THAT'S HOW YOU RESPONDED. IF IT'S IN THE TRANSCRIPT. BUT I DON'T REMEMBER YOU. YOU NEVER TOLD LIEUTENANT HART THAT. THAT YOU PUNCHED OR PUSHED OR DID ANYTHING TO MADDY COHEN, RIGHT? YOU LEFT THAT PART OUT. IS THAT WHAT IT'S IN THERE ASKING IF YOU EVER TOLD HER THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER. HE DIDN'T MENTION THAT YOU HAD STABBED AND SEVERELY INJURED ANOTHER WOMAN. RILEY MADISON. YOU DIDN'T MENTION THAT TO LIEUTENANT HART, RIGHT. FORM. OVERRULED. YOU NEVER MENTIONED THAT PART. I DON'T REMEMBER. YOU DIDN'T MENTION, BEING STRANGLED AT ANY POINT. RIGHT IF THAT'S THE TRANSCRIPT, THEN THAT WE GO BY THAT. BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THAT INTERVIEW. AND I THINK WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS THAT YOU WERE AFRAID YOU WERE GOING TO DIE FROM BEING STRANGLED, AND THAT'S WHY YOU STABBED ISAAC SCHUMANN IN THE HEART. RIGHT? THAT WAS YOUR TESTIMONY EARLY. EARLIER. DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT TODAY, THIS AFTERNOON HERE IN COURT? YES THAT'S NOT ANYTHING YOU MENTIONED TO ANY POLICE OFFICER, RIGHT? IF I DIDN'T MENTION. I DIDN'T MENTION IT. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. THAT'S NOT AN IMPORTANT DETAIL THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO POINT OUT. OBJECTION ARGUMENTATIVE. OVERRULED EVERYTHING IS. EVERY DETAIL IS IMPORTANT. WE ALL KNOW THAT. BUT I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING ANY OF THOSE THINGS TO LIEUTENANT HART BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T SAY THEM RIGHT. THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T REMEMBER. THAT'S WHAT YOU DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS TO HER. THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T REMEMBER. CORRECT I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I SAID OR WHAT I DIDN'T SAY TO HER. I DON'T REMEMBER EVEN HAVING AN INTERVIEW WITH HER. SO YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU TOLD HER. BUT WHEN MR. NELSON IS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS, YOU CAN REMEMBER ALL THESE FEELINGS YOU HAD AT THE TIME. IS THAT TRUE TO FORM? OVERRULED. DO YOU REMEMBER ANSWERING HIS QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW YOU WERE FEELING THAT DAY? THE FEELINGS I HAD WHEN I MEAN, I WAS ATTACKED. AND WHEN YOU'RE MEETING WITH LIEUTENANT HART. OBJECTION. THAT. CAN WE APPROACH? YES. OBJECTION. SUSTAINED. PLEASE REPHRASE THE QUESTION. YOU TESTIFIED TODAY A LOT ABOUT REMEMBERING WHAT YOU WERE FEELING THAT DAY, RIGHT? BUT MR. NELSON WAS QUESTIONING YOU, RIGHT. IS THAT A YES? YES. BUT WHEN YOU'RE ASKED OTHER DETAILS THAT MIGHT NOT BE SO USEFUL, YOU DON'T REMEMBER THEM. RIGHT CERTAIN FEELINGS AND CERTAIN THEY STICK TO YOU FOREVER. THEY AFFECT YOU TO YOUR DEFENSE. THOSE STICK TO YOU RIGHT. SUSTAINED YOU'RE EXAMINED BY THE JAIL NURSE, PARDON ME? THE NURSE. SEVERAL HOURS AFTER THE INCIDENT, RIGHT? YES. YOU NEVER MENTIONED TO HER THAT YOU HAD BEEN STRANGLED, RIGHT? DIDN'T MENTION TO HER A LOT. NOT BECAUSE I INTENTIONALLY DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT. I DIDN'T REMEMBER, I WAS STILL IN SHOCK. YOU DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR THROAT HURTING? I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I MENTIONED TO HER. I UNDERSTAND YOU NEVER AT ANY POINT TOLD ANYBODY OTHER THAN TODAY THAT YOU HAD A SORE THROAT OR YOUR THROAT WAS SORE FROM AFTER THIS INCIDENT. RIGHT YOU DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY. I AT ANY POINT DURING THE DAY AFTER YOU WERE ARRESTED, WHEN YOU WERE INTERVIEWED WITH PEOPLE, WHEN THE JAIL OR THE NURSES TALKING TO YOU, YOU NEVER ONCE SAID, OH, MY THROAT IS SORE BECAUSE ISAAC SCHUMANN STRANGLED ME. RIGHT? ALL RIGHT. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I TOLD THOSE GUYS EITHER. I WAS LIKE I SAID, I DON'T REMEMBER A LOT OF THE INTERACTION I HAD WITH ANYBODY HERE AT THE JAIL. BUT TODAY, ALMOST TWO YEARS LATER, YOU REMEMBER THAT THE NEXT DAY YOUR THROAT HURT? YES. BECAUSE I. YEAH AND MY BACK, I STILL HAVE THAT DETAIL, BUT NONE NOT THE OTHER DETAILS. MY BACK STILL HURTS RIGHT NOW. THE NURSE SPECIFICALLY ASKED YOU WHEN SHE WAS DOING THE EXAM. WHERE ARE YOU HURT? AND YOU POINTED OUT SOME THINGS TO HER RIGHT? I MAY HAVE, YEAH, BUT YOU NEVER ONCE SAID I HAD BEEN STRANGLED. I HAVE AN INJURY TO MY THROAT. MY THROAT HURTS. NOTHING LIKE THAT. OVERRULED I DON'T REMEMBER. WHEN SHE ASKED YOU WHAT HURT YOU SAID YOUR BUTT HURT FROM THE ROCKS. THAT'S. THAT WAS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE NURSE, RIGHT THERE. REMEMBER YOU HAD SAID THAT, NO, YOU'RE NOT. YOU'RE IN POOR HEALTH OR YOU WERE AT LEAST IN POOR HEALTH BACK ON JULY 30TH OF 2022. YOU HAD HAD YOUR BYPASS SURGERY TWO YEARS PRIOR TO THAT, RIGHT. IS THAT A YES? YES. AND TYPICALLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE MEDICAL PROCEDURES LIKE THAT ARE GIVEN RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT THEY CAN DO IN THEIR ACTIVITIES. RIGHT YEAH. AND YOU APPARENTLY WEREN'T RESTRICTED FROM SWIMMING, SNORKELING, DOING OUTDOOR SPORTS ON A RIVER. RIGHT. I WAS FOR A WHILE, BUT TWO YEARS LATER, LOTS OF THE RESTRICTIONS I BELIEVE, GOT LIFTED AND THOSE RESTRICTIONS GOT LIFTED BECAUSE YOU WERE YOU GOT BETTER, RIGHT? I YOU CAN SAY THE DOCTOR MAKES THAT DECISION, BUT HE SAYS IF YOU FEEL A LITTLE BETTER, DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. AND YOU WERE IN FACT SNORKELING AND SWIMMING AND DOING THINGS THAT DAY, PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES. RIGHT SNORKELING IN 15IN OF WATER. I WAS MOSTLY JUST I DIDN'T EVEN SNORKEL. SNORKEL. THAT'S THAT WAS NOT A LAKE OR A BUT I WAS JUST MY WHOLE PLAN FOR THE DAY WAS TO JUST FLOAT DOWN THE RIVER AND RELAX. YOU'RE ABLE TO RUN. AT LEAST YOU WERE BACK ON JULY 30TH OF 2022, RIGHT, RON? YOU WERE ABLE TO RUN AT THAT TIME, RIGHT? YOU WEREN'T RESTRICTED FROM RUNNING. I MEAN, YOU DIDN'T HAVE A MEDICAL RESTRICTION TO KEEP YOU FROM RUNNING, RIGHT? NOT IN NO. AND IN FACT, YOU DID RUN WHEN YOU RAN UP ON ISAAC SCHUMANN'S GROUP. CORRECT YOU CALL THAT RUN OKAY. THAT'S NOT A RUN. BUT I WASN'T RUNNING. I'M NOT ALLOWED. I WASN'T ALLOWED TO RUN OR DO ANY, ACTIVITIES LIKE THAT. SO I WASN'T RUNNING AT THE TIME THAT THIS ALL HAPPENED ON JULY 30TH, 2022, YOU FELT SUFFICIENTLY HEALTHY TO GO OFF ON YOUR OWN, AWAY FROM YOUR, WELL, YOUR WIFE AND YOUR GROUP TO GO DO SNORKELING ON YOUR OWN, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I FELT. YOUR HONOR, I JUST WANT TO CHECK MY NOTES. I THINK I'M ALMOST DONE. SURE IF WE CAN HAVE, EXHIBIT FOUR, ITEM TEN, I'M GOING TO ASK INVESTIGATOR SCHULTZ TO ACTUALLY HANDLE IT. SINCE HIS EVIDENCE. PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. CAN YOU RETRIEVE THE EXHIBIT ? IF, INVESTIGATOR CAN APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR. YES WE'RE SHOWING YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT FOUR, I GUESS ITEM TEN. THAT'S YOUR KNIFE, RIGHT? YES, THAT'S THE KNIFE YOU USED TO STAB THESE PEOPLE. THAT'S THE KNIFE I USED TO DEFEND MYSELF WITH. YES. I ASKED YOU EARLIER ABOUT. ABOUT WHEN YOU STABBED DANTE CARLSON. WHEN YOU AGREED THAT HE WAS NOT ATTACKING YOU AT THE POINT THAT YOU STABBED HIM. HE WAS THE LAST PERSON STABBED RIGHT? HE ATTACKED ME EARLIER WHEN YOU STABBED HIM. TONY CARLSON HAD ALREADY BROKE UP THE FIGHT RIGHT? YOU SAID YOU AGREED TO THAT EARLIER. AT THAT TIME, EVERYBODY THAT CAME IN CONTACT WITH ME ATTACKED ME. ANYBODY WHO LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY THAT CAME IN CONTACT WITH ME, I FELT ATTACKED. YOU FELT ATTACKED WHETHER YOU WERE BEING PHYSICALLY ATTACKED OR NOT. RIGHT I WAS IN THE IN THE, IN THE, MOMENT. SO I FELT ATTACKED BY ANYBODY THAT HAD EITHER PREVIOUSLY ATTACKED ME OR WAS APPROACHING TO ATTACK ME. SO YOU FELT LIKE YOU COULD STAB FOLKS WHO WERE NOT ATTACKING YOU AT THE MOMENT THAT YOU STABBED THEM. OBJECTION SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED YOU WALKED UP TO DANTE CARLSON AND STABBED HIM IN THE BELLY, RIGHT? I DID NOT WALK UP TO DANTE CARLSON AND STAB HIM IN THE BELLY
