Andrew Huberman, Ph.D., Neuroscience Professor and Researcher | Hotboxin' with Mike Tyson

[Music] once they see him they respect him like he never left Mike thanks ain't never forget where he came from we don't play no game you live or die how you want to do it we would hang out on the train station then we would shoot dice in the hallway everywhere in the world I go to death in the pound for just because you lived there all over the world ah Brownsville never read never will oh he really kicking it with the people and it's right it's the baddest [ __ ] that ever lived came from Brownville Brooklyn it's only right it's rightfully so the greatest fighter ever should be from Brownville Brooklyn Tyson yeah I'm Mike Tyson Tyson Ludacris [Music] hello this is another episode of hot boxing this is Mike Tyson and I have Andrew huberman today and hey man listen listen Andrew I listen normally I'm just a joker but I'm being really serious right now yeah that makes sense to you uh Quantum Universe I mean can mean a lot of different things explain it to me well I'm a neuroscientist so I work on the brain Quantum universe is outside my my wheelhouse are you aware of it well I can tell you a little bit about what I know about Quantum Computing tell me about that yeah explain it to me first then tell me yeah yeah so this is not my immediate area of expertise but right now there is a race worldwide to see which countries can develop Quantum Internet first oh and here's what happens if you send a text message or you put something in an email or you send it something out across the internet to somebody it can be detected right other people can read it and know about it the whole idea of quantum Computing is that the communication between two people would be in a unique language for essentially every moment a different language so that you can understand on your end what's happening I can understand on my end what's happening we can send each other messages that we understand but if anyone were to try and look in on that it would change the conversation and they wouldn't be able to detect it so that's important to us that's very important for all sorts of uh political reasons military reasons for guys like us guys like that yeah people who want to keep their Communications private you know one friend of mine who works in the Securities World they already know everything about you well now you want to be private then everything about you well what he said is exactly in line with what you're saying which is that unless something is kept in your head chances are it it's accessible right you know you say something nowadays and it's pretty much recorded right um pretty much anywhere not everywhere but so Quantum Computing is a big effort of many different countries to try and develop ways that people can communicate with one another in a completely encrypted way so that if anyone were to look in on that conversation it would essentially destroy the conversation now I don't know about Quantum universe but that's what little I know about Quantum so uh Hillary Clinton should have had that during her email I think everyone is hoping to have some way to communicate privately uh for whatever reason is there a real privacy out there Mike I mean is there a really like real privacy anybody knows everybody's more transparent than they believe they're I mean everybody know who everybody is pretty much but you can't hide your info like you know once you type whatever in that format it's out of here because there's no such thing as it never gets deleted you know I think if there ought to be um place there are places where there are records of essentially every yeah every web search you've done I think there's some search engines that are not doing that I'm not sure if that's DuckDuckGo if you're or yeah um but yeah I mean your use patterns on the internet over the last 10 15 years where you've spent your credit cards what you buy who you spend time with our phones are now in proximity they know that we spend time together here now when we say they I mean someone would have to have a real interest in going and looking at that right I don't think somebody's sitting there looking at everything but yeah I think that you can backtrack almost anything there's a digital um trail of for most all of us why do humans give a [ __ ] we want to die anyway we give a [ __ ] yeah it's um gosh uh the big questions first um you know this gets us into the brain and Neuroscience actually you know one of the most amazing things about them what we care about now and what what we fear about dying what's what's dying all about well I think there are different categories of people on this one but I think some people fear dying a lot some people just don't think about it I'll be honest I don't think about it I I don't think about dying um the brain is amazing because it can change its perception of time really easily like if there's a stressful event let's say during a fight or an argument of any kind your perception of time starts getting really fine sliced you're paying attention moment to moment to moment to moment then when you're relaxed or you're dreaming or you're not worried about things you tend to look at time as kind of expansive past present future dreamlike States we talk about psychedelics too it's a very interesting area of science right now so the brain doesn't have like one mode it's not like a video camera that always shoots in slow motion or always shoots high speed or shoots at like standard like the way we're communicating now the frame rate changes so um actually this is I have a question for you um you know when you were fighting did you ever feel like in those moments that you could slice up time more finely like you could did things ever seem like they were in slow motion yeah um I was completely relaxed when I was fighting I was intense I was just totally relaxed yeah so the brain has this ability especially when we're relaxed and we're in high high tension moments where things are really important we are micro slicing up our experience on certain occasions I mean I'm so focused I can see myself I'm up looking down at myself like a third person yourself um that's okay so third person oneself they call that dissociation right and sometimes when people are meditating and there are certain uh drugs like ketamine nowadays you hear a lot about ketamine therapy I've never used that back yeah you know what ketamine is very similar to people don't talk about this because nowadays ketamine is legal for the treatment of depression it's very widespread it does have potential for abuse it really does it should mentioned that but ketamine is essentially PCP angel dust yeah a lot of people don't know that they they think PCP tell us about it's all about the doses right right so at low doses of ketamine people get into these dreamlike dissociative States those are the ones used to treat depression people start to third person themselves and they can see themselves as a being that's suffering and they can get away from that suffering that's very hard for a depressed person to do normally they're just thinking about yourself I know there's something about me I just don't figure it out it's just something about me that makes me different have you always felt that way yeah as a little boy yeah yeah that that you were different than everyone around you yeah you grew up in a pretty crazy environment yeah you felt different like you looked at the world different or you felt different inside why didn't nobody was gonna hurt me I know something good was gonna happen in my life you knew certain good was was going to happen I knew I was going to be important people would know who I was and just knew what I did I knew that when I was a young kid it's interesting because um you know one of the Central things of all of Psychology and Neuroscience is that the sense of like when we're a kid we learn we have an eye like a me for you or you right and um you know we forget things as we get older that's normal uh but rarely if ever does somebody wake up and forget who they are that identity gets kind of you know baked in and um I do think that some kids feel as if they are different that they feel like something has been endowed in them that leads them to go out and and forage in the world we don't know exactly what that is I think of myself every second of my life every tenth of a second of my life it's a very self-identified yeah yeah well also your name early on became like a thing it was like a brand and a thing like it's a lot of discussion around about you around you you know let's see I know you got going really early but at what point did you did you start to think of yourself as uh like I'm curious about how you saw your identity like were you a fighter were you a kid from Brownsville that's where you're from right um like like did you identify as one thing or it was just me no I I identified with all that too but um and I identify with all that the finished project was just me and I mean I'm God I'm there from the best ever No One's Gonna ever be as good as me I'm ferocious and I mean the fighter level it's everything over and over but when you were in the company of people you loved and trusted you knew your that you could be compassionate too and kind too absolutely yeah I'm talking about um I thought my mind was changed when I was a young fighter yeah I was I wanted to ask you about hypnosis you know I have a colleague at Stanford my colleague David Spiegel we work together a lot and he he does clinical hypnosis not stage hypnosis making people squawk like chickens and stuff but hypnosis you know it gets a bad rap because the name people think oh it's someone trying to control you but hypnosis is really just a state you controlling you exactly it's self-hypnosis is deep relaxation plus suggestion and what the goal of hypnosis is you know we hear about meditation designed to clear the mind calm you you hear about yoga okay Etc but hypnosis is like a meditation designed to change your brain in a specific way what we call neuroplasticity you know your brain is amazing because unlike the rest of your body which can change somewhat muscles and tendons and stuff your brain can change itself that's why we use um hypnosis when I was 14. guess what accomplish our goals it worked it doesn't everybody doesn't um grasp to it it's just that's just the truth everybody doesn't get it I was fortunately someone that got it it was it cost to talk yeah he was the Hypno through the Chiropractic yeah interesting so this guy Spiegel I work with his father was the one who brought hypnosis to the field of Psychiatry as a real thing as a medical practice they use it to help people quit smoking nicotine they use it to help people with chronic pain with people who are late like dying of cancer and the data are we're talking real clinical studies right done in Laboratories University setting Etc are very impressive a hypnosis is no joke it's just that people hear hypnosis and they think oh you know it's like this silly thing but hypnosis is self-directed rewiring of your own brain and um yeah so would he do that with you regularly and then you eventually cuss and then you learn how to do it on your own I'm doing it first thing in the morning last day and night oh really yeah yeah and he would talk to you yeah and then sometimes I feel like doing it another time let's do it again and before fights too yeah right before fighting do you uh I won't ask you to share but do you remember any of the things that he talked to you about absolutely yeah you still remember them yeah isn't that amazing how the things including the music that we hear when we're like 14 15 just gets did that help with your um like does it help with anger management like like the hypnosis like you know especially what we're talking about if that's what you need I'm using it for I don't think I was using it for that yeah oh wow I mean currently now whatever you're going through do they put like blocks in your head like to stop like if somebody annoys you block one and that's um that's your guy's objective I'm sure maybe you can my objective was totally fighting dismantling people and that's just how I live my life so you're 14 to my 30s and we raised it to be a warrior yeah a champion yeah I'm 47 years old so I grew up watching a lot of your thank you yeah yeah we it was the real you know when they get old I said well that was so important to me when I was a kid it's so important well what's interesting is when we're young especially when we're about 12 to 25. we are trying to form an identity you know it's rare for an adult to say like who am I in this world I mean people can change careers people can go on new journeys of exploration but but those years are so critical of forming a self-concept I think that happened in different stages of our life because the guy who's 10 not the same guy at 20. God 20s with the thing guys 30. so we never really actually know who we are until we're close to death bro you know that's just my opinion yeah no it's I'm interested in this close to death thing you know I've had a couple people really close to me die and I've had conversations with them as they were getting close and um you know it's it's interesting they talk about the little things becoming so important you know like the sun shines coming in the window this morning and it's like filling their entire day it's as if their perception of time they understand and know because I would think okay you're getting close to death depending on how you one has lived their life you might think oh like whatever it doesn't matter I'm soon gonna die but it's the opposite seems to happen people seem to start to notice the beauty and all sorts of things well my experience with DMT and when I am well DMT it's in myself what I believe is it gives you the perception of death yeah I haven't done DMT I participated in a clinical trial of MDMA yeah um we could talk about psilocybin um again this was actually yeah that's like stuff well let's let's so MDMA stands for methodioxide methamphetamine so to be clear MDMA ecstasy has methamphetamine in it but it has another piece in it that creates a huge increase in serotonin which is a different chemical so it's dopamine and serotonin that really go up big and it's in a pathogen so you feel very empathic and there people do it recreationally which frankly I don't recommend and they get really into music and there's a that's one way to do it again I don't recommend that first of all it's still illegal right it's not like cannabis has not been approved for medical use yet but it has been explored in medical studies for the treatment of trauma and PTSD in particular and when those uh experiments are done they put people in the eye mask they listen to music they have a therapist there and they're really thinking about what's going on inside and their relationship to themselves oftentimes childhood trauma you know military veterans are getting a lot of rent a lot of soldiers go through that yeah there's a wonderful um organization called Veterans Solutions which is not not-for-profit organization which is bringing psychedelics like MDMA to Veterans who you know they've seen ridiculous God knows what you know and they're traumatized by it and uh you know you talk about trauma I mean not everything bad is trauma but trauma is the stuff that changes your brain so that it works less well suicide it's outrageous deaths of Despair are going through the roof that's what they call them deaths of despair especially in certain populations you're not young kids yeah yeah what now what did they know in life they really make them want to do that yeah their time perception is such that how they feel in the moment they make it it seem like it's never going to change so there's some promising stuff coming out about MDMA done clinically I think by next year it will probably be legal for the treatment of pts do you think we have more um mental health problems now than ever oh uh that's a big question um some people say um kids use that as an excuse yeah I think well there are a bunch of things here yeah and and I don't have all the answers but if you step back from it you know there's this whole generation of kids that was medicated for things like ADHD and depression very thank you and now to be fair I want to be really clear some people not all some people meaning these kids have had their lives saved by antidepressants and ADHD medication like ritalin and adderall but some kids did not need those drugs and were over prescribed those drugs so that I'm that guy yeah so so that's that whole category is that the most misdiagnosed situation they try to tell my son had that man and it's hard I did two episodes on this in my podcast and here I just want to State My Philosophy on this if possible behaviors should always go first exercise sunlight social connection quality sleep meditation Stress Control you know these kinds of things but there is a place for medication when people are struggling right I mean if somebody has epilepsy you know and they're having seizures and they're a danger to the their own safety you would hope to put them on an epileptic on a drug to treat their epilepsy or ketogenic diet is used to treat epilepsy so I always think of behaviors first and medications often will allow people to get back to the healthy behaviors so nowadays you get a kid who's agitated or who can't focus and I hear from these parents all the time should I put my kid on Ritalin Adderall Vyvanse there's a bunch of different categories of drugs now keep in mind all of those drugs except Ritalin are they are amphetamine they're speed but they have the property of calming those kids down because it teaches their brain how to focus what's interesting is a kid with ADHD who can't focus if you give them something they love like video games they are like a laser so it's hard for parents because they don't know does my kid actually have real ADHD so I'm of the believer that they that parents should really talk to a couple of different really good psychiatrists don't do the reflections these are serious medications yeah now there's been a lot of exploration about whether or not these kids become drug addicts later here's the deal if kids actually have ADHD and you don't treat it much higher probability that they're going to end up incarcerated and with drug issues if they do have HD if they have HD excuse me if they have ADHD and you treat it appropriately with behavioral stuff maybe medication maybe not it's not for everybody the men they tend to not be drug users later so unless and um when it comes to drugs the drug game and we're losing bad oh well the big you know rehab's not working no the big issue here is okay so why the big your question why all the mental health issues I think people so the Big Five in life from for mental health it's clear you need regular quality sleep we know this every time somebody commits suicide you look back at their sleep patterns in the days and weeks before totally disrupted so regular sleep is key sunlight you need sunlight in the morning it stimulates dopamine release in the brain and other neurochemicals that make you feel good people are staying up late and looking at their phones and watching TV staying in and not getting sunlight you can't do that and expect to be healthy the other one is exercise movement social connection good nutrition and that's just the Baseline and I think a lot of kids have been raised in an environment where they're just not doing that you know they're not getting sunlight in their eyes they're and they're communicating and they're not the social connection piece they're just not getting this thing of face-to-face communication that we grew up with now I always love being around New Yorkers Because by the way I'm a huge like fan of New York ever since I was in your faith I know you were in your face all the time and you're seeing people with lots of aggressive races and ethnicities I mean the the guys two people you see them talk or having a conversation you think they're fighting right now we are a social creature we're a social creature and electronic communications have done amazing things right I do a podcast we're on a podcast now you can communicate with a lot of people but face-to-face communication has known benefits for the brain in fact you have a brain area has a crazy name fusiform face area this is a brain area that specifically is activated when you see human faces and seeing faces in the morning is key and people always say well can't I see it on an iPad listen that if that's all you can do fine but there's a reason they put people into solitary confinement oh wow and there's a reason why that makes people um insane it drives the Mind nuts we are there's a molecule I'm not going to throw out a bunch of molecules but there's an important set of discoveries made in the last few years there's a A protein that your body makes called tachykinen and it comes out when we're isolated and guess what it does it makes people aggressive it makes animal aggressive it makes mice flies and humans aggressive when you isolate them and there's some people that just um they thrive in isolation well some people are introverted but you know and I think we talk about aggression we you know there's aggression towards others but I think we talk about suicide and death despair that's aggression to self yeah that's also uh you know F the world there's an agre you know some forms of suicide are all about self-hatred other forms of suicide are about hatred towards everybody and so you know suicide isn't one thing just like depression isn't one thing just like a fever isn't one thing so these kids a God could be have self-hate and still be the biggest entertainment in the world or the biggest and you see that business man in the world oh I mean you look at the history of re-listening to the uh story of Steve Jobs I mean you know I mean this guy had some anger in him he'd do scream therapy he was into LSD he was in you know and but when it was time for him to work he could Channel all that into his thing and then everyone wondered why he was such a jerk in the rest of his life I mean you you didn't know how to handle him he wasn't yeah yeah he would drive 110 miles per hour up to 80 which is the freeway between you know Palo Alto an apple he was known for being erratic but he also had his ring like his 12 round ring by the way I have to ask you this boxing question um I heard that when they moved from 15 round profits to 12 round Pro fights a lot fewer guys stop uh starting time is that true yeah did you ever fight 15 rounds well I was um it was supposed to go 15 minutes I'll tell you one thing about it I'll tell you one thing about having a pain for a lot of your fights when we were kids I was a little kid but I remember my friend's dad would uh would pay for the fight so we'd go over there and it'd often be over so fast it was like we got our money's worth it you know um oh go take a piss do you watch your fights do you look back um I want my kids to look at it but they stopped looking I didn't want to see that [ __ ] no more no they will later your kids were in here a couple of them were in here earlier and uh they were asking questions about sleep and dreaming you have very inquisitive very smart children your son was telling me about sleep paralysis yeah REM sleep rapid eye movement sleep uh your daughter was asking about lucid dreaming these are very you know inquisitive children their mother is very spiritual with the outside world you know um I like to call it a witch but you know she's very young now she's very um conscious of us like like matter of fact what do you think you're existing why are you here talking about you what you're talking about well who are you why are you doing she asked the big question yeah yeah who are you man how do you define yourself really did she do that from the moment you met her yeah yeah first date she's asking me why are you here no I was asking her that but um she's in that realm but she really wants to know her existence that's my existence amazing um it's funny they talked about sleep paralysis is that like uh like yeah Father Knows asleep you talked about out-of-body experience do people get confused with sleep paralysis so when you go to sleep at night the first thing that happens you fall into that shallow phase of sleep or sometimes you jerk yourself awake and that happened before yeah so then you go into deep sleep that's when growth hormone is released your body repairs and your dreams in deep Sleep it's called slow wave sleep tend to be kind of boring kind of uninteresting I've never had any um visions that were boring okay then what's probably happening with you is some people go immediately into rapid eye movement sleep that's the one where underneath your eyelids your eyes are jotting okay so when you're in rapid eye movement sleep your brain is very active your dreams are very intense emotionally laid but in order to keep your body from it acting out those dreams you're completely paralyzed you're not sleep Antonia now sometimes people will wake up in the morning and they're still paralyzed and they're wide awake and they'll jolt it it's happened to me once you know what can sometimes people who smoke cannabis have that more often but you're saying that hasn't happened to you yeah so that first stage of sleep where you sometimes jolt yourself out that first stage of sleep is very similar to the state of mind you're in when you're in hypnosis very similar oh yeah and um your son just asks excellent questions uh why do sometimes we get kind of scary things in our dreams um and rapid eye movement sleep is very emotional not always scary but emotional but you're paralyzed and the Brain somehow seems to have an awareness of that and first of all the reason that happens is almost like a trauma therapy you're going through this emotional stuff from your life things are disorganized and weird you you know you can be in a podcast and you're flying then you're in Florida then you're in California but so it's disorganized but at those moments your body can't release adrenaline that's very different than when you experience something emotional in real life where adrenaline kicks up adrenaline is what allows you to go into the tunnel for you know a fight or an argument or positive things too adrenaline is amazing molecule we release it from our adrenals above our kidneys also in the brain a similar molecule changes everything in sleep rapid eye movement sleep you have all the emotional stuff but no adrenaline and if you look at most forms of trauma therapy that don't involve you know a drug it involves getting people to try and talk about their trauma while staying relaxed but one of the key things to getting over trauma and a lot of people don't realize this is people have to get back into the experience they can't keep pushing it away pushing it away because then it shows up as back pain panic attacks you know a lot of people think that PTSD is you know you hear a car backfire and then you're hiding on your car that's kind of true sometimes people just dissociate they don't know why they can't enjoy life anymore you know trauma shows up in a lot of different ways so trauma therapy involves people getting into the experience of the trauma with somebody there to guide them um there is a role for psychedelics in this in the modern medicine world where they're starting to explore how psychedelics can facilitate this um but even without psychedelics people need to get into the hard experience and learn to calm themselves while being able to replay it which is exactly what's happening in sleep so sleep is so key to mental health when you ask what's a big part of the Mental Health crisis I don't think it's be all about what kids are seeing in their phones a lot of it is just that they're on their phones and iPads in the middle of the night when they should be sleeping sleep is when your brain and body repairs its physical self and its Emotional Self and one of the best ways by the way to get really good sleep is to make sure that you see the sunlight in the morning that you go outside and get some sunlight in your eyes because that tells your brain what time of day it is and it sets of timer so you can fall asleep later that night is it bad that I I take like you know sleep Edibles to go to sleep okay so there's conflicting every night yeah so there are so things like melatonin cannabis they help certain people fall asleep CBD but the quality of sleep that you get isn't always the best but it feels like it's massaging my whole body my legs so here's the question it's nice here's the question if you can go through your day with maybe taking a short nap some people need that like I need that in the late afternoon like a baby I take a short nap every day but if you are feeling awake during the day you're probably sleeping well at night that you know when people talk about I'm an insomniac I have insomnia insomnia is defined as daytime sleepiness so a lot of people you know would do well to go to bed earlier wake up earlier some people go to bed later wake up later there's a lot of variation there but if you feel alert enough to get through your day maybe using a little bit of caffeine here and there you're probably sleeping enough so for you sounds like it works now the Cannabis thing is we know they're medicinal they're not going to do it every day you know I'm not going to say that it sounds like it's working for you Mike is it good for me to do it every day every moment of the day so clearly you formed a relationship with cannabis that works for you but you know I will say That's Just In fairness to the data there are some people in particular people who have a genetic predisposition to bipolar disorder yeah sometimes now just called bipolar depression because people don't like disorder makes it sound bad okay smoking high THC cannabis yeah for those people I got the height in the world predis predisposes them to some psychosis later but some people can do it some people can't it's not I don't know well clearly you don't have bipolar disorder you're not bipolar I was diagnosed with bipolar really tripolar try anything that's another one I'm not a psychiatrist but I would not have um put you in that you didn't know me man well I saw some of the clips but I don't know I want to talk about that you know yeah well having a temper doesn't necessarily mean no I wasn't about much time okay doing play doing [ __ ] at places people normally don't do [ __ ] got it well you had a you've had a very unusual life yeah you know a good friend of mine um who's a also a a well-known musician my friend Tim Armstrong you know he said it perfectly your life has been you know shake Experian and scope I mean it's like what you've gone through and where you've been and I mean I think to the rest of the world it's it's like whoa It's a lot yeah yeah well we can talk about aggression for a minute there's a brain area called the ventromedial hypothalamus yeah and it's been known for about 50 years actually a guy won Nobel Prize for this work it's got two kinds of neurons in there nerve cells one kind you stimulate them and the animal or the person has been seen in people too goes into a rage in fact an animal next to a glove will attack the glove you give it another rat it'll attack the or Mouse it'll attack that Mouse if nothing's in there it doesn't do much doesn't turn on itself that's kind of interesting and then this structure of the Venture medial hypothalamus is very interesting because the other cells in that structure control mating so in the brain there's this area called the hypothalamus it's tiny tiny it's like the size of a couple of marbles the bottom of our brain and the neurons there are so specific stimulate one set of neurons mating stimuli another set of neurons aggression simulate another set of neurons sleep similar I mean it's incredible these are like switches but you know growing up we learn you know you see kids get angry you know I remember once doing the throwing dirt closet my friend with dirt Claude war and then all of a sudden he just you know and just and it was like the game had changed for him and we're like he would just go into a rage you know but uh typically that but you were also trained to do that professionally exactly yeah I mean that's that's a complicated thing for a brain you know from a young age right yeah I have a question I've been wanting to ask you so there's this thing in Neuroscience called conditioned Place preference or condition Place avoidance what it means is when we go to a particular place a whole set of emotions come back around that so like if you get near a boxing ring do you feel different even if it's not your night to fight oh I'm so sick I don't want to be nearing interesting I feel that too like I don't go to clubs I DJ like festivals like and I don't want to you have to be doing a gig or something yeah I'm not gonna go there I get in the highs when I go to the gym and I'm around boxing again what about when you go back to New York City well I'm from New York so I feel um I feel good I don't have many friends there anymore they got older died and they moved away but um it's always happy to be there if you think back to like the cat skills do you have good memories oh yeah the greatest they're my favorite memories I've seen the documentaries of you sitting around the dinner table yeah that's my favorite memory yeah you looked very at home there yeah it was awesome yeah yeah so like the brain's amazing right what we're talking about here is like we can go into like we get the emotional response associated with memories yeah because I know my mentor see me I know he's watching me so you have a higher power relationship yeah you believe in that yeah you guys are talking about brain games is deja vu real I mean sometimes I'm like driving around and I see like some that I saw already no like the Matrix type thing is that really oh yeah you see do you go through that no um I've thought about something and the next day like a day or two why I just thought about this not too long ago I thought this moment right here this is what's going on right now already I foresee it I was there already oh man yeah but is that real is it is the brain playing games with you if I see a cat and I see the same scene the same cat yeah in the same scene I'm like oh that's what I wanted to do why did the brain do that yeah why I just wondering why what happened to make the brain do that okay so um there's a guy he also has a Nobel Prize for different work uh his name is susumu tonagawa he's a professor at MIT and he has studied deja vu in the brain there are a couple other people who looked at this too but mainly him and you know your memory system it sets things up as symbols we okay your brain does mainly three things one it does a bunch of things to keep your heart beating and you breathing and your bladder working and all that and keep you alive okay all the basic functions it also is a prediction machine it you know you're in here and you kind of know what this is about and so certain things would be typical certain things would be unusual for here so it looks at the context and kind of picks up it's like a bookshelf where the books change it's like in one context you got a bunch of books about fighting and maybe you know you come into a podcast too it's a bunch of books about other things you have one discussion so it's it's kind of like your library of available books in your brain changes depending on where you are and then you have um system that like thinks in symbols like we don't tend to look at the fine details of things unless we decide to so you'll see like an adversary you're ready to fight or a guy that used to fight like Evander and then now maybe you guys are friendly now okay all right so you know all my um if I'm not fighting them with friends right so totally different context totally different rules right proof that your forebrain is still working well right because what happens when people have damage to the forebrain is they lose the context dependent Behavior they start acting strange for a given context so you have these symbols and then when you go to sleep at night you know some stuff gets kept some stuff gets discarded from the day before Deja Vu we know from this work from this guy at MIT is when a similar pattern of activity just suddenly emerges in the brain and because you're not you know making sense of the world in a lot of detail you're grabbing the Gestalt the big stuff the big picture well that big picture just kind of Pops back and you see something that's so similar the other day I was just walking along and I felt the same way I did it previous time but I couldn't remember so kind of like that and that's because feelings are not that they're not that many different ways to encode feelings because you've probably had trillions of feelings in your lifetime absolutely but they probably fall into maybe six or seven categories right yeah well listen um we're we're imprisoned to our memories yeah you know I mean they never leave you know it's about to keep it for myself you're definitely not crazy this is deja vu is a normal brain phone you know what I know this happened sometimes with me and with people in general you think about somebody next thing you know he pops up but he calls you okay that that is always a little Eerie when that happens yeah the other day I was saying or you have a dream about somebody and then they reach back everything for years yeah well that gets to these issues of whether or not you you know you believe in something greater than what we can understand and see right um and I believe there's something that we used to do all the time but we forgot how to do it again because um communicate without using phones and stuff well there's a theory and now I'm gonna sound like a crazy person to the science Community but there is a theory uh that is sort of at the boundary of science okay because science can't explain everything it's just one lens to look on the world right can science explain spirituality probably not well you know I mean I'm a neuroscientist but I can still have a notion of higher power right and there's I don't need science to try and explain that it can both can be true um and I'm not the first scientist to feel that way I mean Einstein himself felt that way right so from what he tells us so there is a theory that in areas like Lapland and these places where people live very far apart that people could anticipate when people were going to come visit they'd start preparing food and things like that and then they'd show up and I've heard these stories and thought at first I thought okay this is crazy right this is just crazy but then if you go back and you start looking at some of the the documentation of this the documentation was done by people who are very objective so you know maybe we have some sort of um intrinsic rhythm in our brain of the frequency that things tend to happen and we start to anticipate them that would be logical but who knows you know we love to think of the brain as working exactly the way we understand in the textbooks right now but look every week it seems there's a new discovery about I'm a strong believer that our brain is not our friend it's not our friend yeah well you're not alone in that you know the the Carl Jung and some of the great psychologists had this idea that we have all things inside of us meaning inside of our brain we have the capacity to be anything the worst human being or the best human being this is what Young thought and that some people perhaps yourself experience more of those different ways of being than other people and that those people who experience more ways of being than other people are in a unique position to report about their experience of having been many things you know I mean people gravitate to you because of your boxing record of course but also you know in recent years as far as I've seen you've also been out there talking about how you've tried to change your Consciousness and and look back on the things that you didn't like about your life and change them and you know I think people tend to gravitate towards people that have have been um pioneers and adventurers and voyagers and gone out there because many people not all but many people are afraid to get outside their immediate experience or they're just curious about others experiences I know a lot of people think differently like if you go to Dubai or you go to Egypt like people back in the days they use their mind to create like pyramid like just because you don't do it physically thought about this you really created this amazing thing in front of you by using your mind yeah well if you know I do think the one issue with the phones nowadays is you see you can see the internet you can see how things have been done but it's very hard on the internet to see something that hasn't been done yet and Imagination and creating new things is all about imagining things that have not been done this is why um you know I sat down and did a podcast with Rick Rubin you know our mutually and Rick you know you know and I know Rick well and we talk often about you know his whole thing is that creativity comes from nature but from everything around us is offering us tools but we have to be in a position to capture those tools I just don't think anybody could comprehend life you know I mean some people just party all their life and some people are trying to figure out what life's all about and at the end of the day they both know nothing about life no I think you should it's just beyond a comprehension we make it the way we want them to be in our mind but anything is before Beyond us to even understand what this is all about yeah we're a storytelling species yeah I mean it's funny you say that because how do you see what's inside your head like and how and how do you get these answers from these scientists how do they know like I don't get this like how do you really know so what the first operation is what five thousand years ago he found uh somebody one of those skeletons you know one of those um Sumerians or something with operations yeah yeah there's a wonderful book if people are interested in the history of medicine it's called The Prince of medicine this guy Galen was one of the first people to operate on humans oh you'll be interested in this so at that time people weren't allowed to operate on people so they were allowed to operate on animals and they could leave their home country there were a few countries where they were allowed to do it so Galen was very interesting so who did he learn medicine how did he learn medicine and about the organs of the body Gladiators yeah so he would find Gladiators that were cut open but were dead and he'd spend extra at least spend a little extra time in there while he was doing surgery going oh well here's this thing and I wonder what happens so Gladiators were the first specimens for for modern Med what eventually became modern medicine right and back then surgeries were public people would do surgeries in front of an audience you know we've always been fascinated by who we are and I will say this you know scientists are trying to understand things and hopefully those those understandings convert to good treatments for health mental health and physical health but science and medicine is not about answering all the big questions right it's not about trying to like Bridge The Divide to like people talk about Consciousness but like those are high level things you know I think that someday there will be a a link between experience science medicine and spirituality and the you know the collective I mean what we're talking about here is also not talking about ourselves in isolation but relational stuff um someday hopefully we'll understand that but I don't know you made the prediction that we might all be gone before I don't know and then if that's true which species is going to inherit the earth I always wonder about this say that again if we're all gone which species will inherit the world we'll be like that will it be the octopus or something like that they're pretty smart I think um one of the strongest species that's living on the planet um pretty much morph into us the mushrooms yeah we are we're fungus in the earth well then you know I'm sure there's some animals um some got some okay well this is this is gonna this is gonna blow your mind perhaps I don't know you've been through a lot I don't know what can blow your mind but you know these days you hear a lot about the gut microbiome yeah you know it's important to get enough fiber probiotics because you're leaky guts yeah because your gut communicates with your brain actually helps make neurotransmitters for your brain and we know and this is you know you take the gut microbiome from an obese person you put it from a lean person into an obese person they get lean so there's a lot of stuff from the gut that communicates with the brain mood there's a lot of ideas maybe even in certain forms of autism the gut is disrupted a lot of ideas about this the gut microbiome are trillions of little micro bacteria that most of them are good for us I have a colleague at Stanford his name is Justin Sonnenberg he works on the gut microbiome and he said what if these little microbiota that what if they're really really smart we don't think of them as smart but what if we are just bags for them because the way they work is they want to get into as many different people as possible that's how they keep proliferating so what if shaking hands which we shared microbiomes when we shift hands when you see somebody when you go home you're sharing microbiomes because you have it on your skin too yeah the microbiome is all over the skin it's in your nasal passages everywhere I mean we're just in everyday connection here shaking hands Etc but when people are intimate they share their microbiome right by mouth or by genitals or whatever it is so what if the microbiota this was his idea just as a thought experiment what if the microbiota are actually the ones in charge and we're running around living Our Lives thinking our lives are so important and it's actually we're just vehicles I don't think that we're navigating our life well listen there are very very smart people at the high level and we're starting to toss out these ideas because when you think about syphilis with the skin that the skin rash at one time but it had a brain and say Hey I want to survive so I wanted to uh uh a glance and a balls and anything yeah and so and you know viruses don't have a mind the same way we do so they've exploited sexually transmitted viruses have exploited the fact that one member of an organism will physically interact with another member of the organism and infect it that's it they've exploited that in their viral type mind we don't think of it as they probably don't have thoughts the way that we have thoughts that we don't know but the microbiomes I mean just imagine that we're going around thinking our life is so important I'm going to see this person kiss them on the cheek meet them shake hands in the little microbiota like we love this I mean you know online's dumb because every time I eat like wagyu like a Wagyu steak medium rare it takes like weeks to digest but my gut is [ __ ] up if you're a young yeah I get headaches I swear I can't eat that kind of red meat eating like steak I don't know I'm a half Argentinian I eat red meat oh my gosh yeah you're a vegetarian no they're all chicken and fish well you're in your 50s now yeah 57 all right 57 47 52 52. so yeah probably a little less red meat um than I used to but I still love it I think to keep your gut microbiome healthy yeah you need vegetables and fiber some people don't like that nowadays you have the pure carnivore people and they'll probably attack me for saying that but listen most people do well eating some fruits and veggies I mean you know I mean you know the arguments about nutrition on the internet are kind of silly because most people are omnivores they're eating a mixture of animal proteins fruits vegetables and starches you know the arguments are taking place for a few uh I saw one in your videos and you stated that your bones communicate with your brain I didn't know that yeah so when you yeah so when you exercise this is the work of a Nobel Prize winner named Eric Kendall so this is wild when you exercise especially load-bearing exercise so boxing would be included but but weight training running your bones actually secrete a hormone-like signal called osteocalcin that travels in the blood goes out of the bones into the bloodstream into the brain and helps stimulate your memory centers of the brain if you think about it nature is so smart because how does your brain know if your body is moving well it could see pay attention to the limbs but when the bones are low when they're you know they have loads on them right when you run in the kind of a little bit of jarring from the running or from lifting that is sent through the nervous system back to the brain and it's proof positive that your body is moving and it needs to be rejuvenated so the two major functions of your brain really are vision and movement you know we think we use a lot of brain space for thinking most of our brain is dedicated to being able to move and we're we are different than other species most species move in just a couple dedicated ways a horse can Trot walk Gallop you know all these but humans can Sprint can do marathons can do ultra marathons box 12 or 15 rounds you know gymnastics you know parkour skateboarding you know the mute play music guitar drums I mean no other animal has even close to the range of movement that we do so when we are moving our brains get that signal and the bones are the one of the major ways that that signal is sent back up to the brain and this is why people who exercise feel better their brains get better over time you know or they continue to stay young when people become sedentary when they stop moving they start losing memory and then part of that's blood flow and hormone related but the way to people always say how to stay young you know what did this person eat what did he you know the movement movement movement is it a higher probability to live longer if you work out because some people like you know people die so you live with muscle muscle and you muscle and the cardiovascular work yeah I imagine that do you do the cardio too yeah do you do that by Mint work and things like that no yeah I can do that but normally if I walk outside run it yeah you still run yeah I just see you running on the pier yeah yeah 4am runs yeah and then back to sleep okay yeah right I love to run and I love to lift I love both some people say you can't run oh [ __ ] that's ridiculous you mean you know yeah I'm running the big time drug yeah that was amazing well all animals need movement uh it's in it it's what I call an anti-depressive behavior and people who know this are like well of course it makes you feel better but you know we're we all we are also dealing with a real crisis of sedentary life you know we don't move enough these days we don't walk up the one reason I love New York City is that like you walk along yeah you do you know you're walking a ton and people are still on their phones there but less than you see out but people in New York just walk and have nowhere to go there's going forward and talking and arguing and yeah I always think of New York City as like the tropical Reef of humanity everywhere you look there's life you know you look down an alley with the only person why why is it that we're so like we want to be controlled like you know they always I don't want to get too deep but when like you see like the Vatican or the church they they go against science but they use science to control the masses like you know oh well this okay well actually you know some you're talking about hey now you're disrespecting the pope now I don't know that I don't know that homie Hey listen he's a good person you know everybody in my experience yeah why why is it my experience and I'm not being a diplomatic here in my experience whether or not I meet somebody who's Catholic Protestant Jewish Muslim atheist they tend to be pretty open about scientific findings but there is a science to control the masses well yeah okay so they just don't do what I tell you to do I won't put you in jail that's all we'll kill you each of the you know different parts of the world there are different rule sets right um you know I'm I'm being honest here I I am not aware of any systematic effort to leverage science in order to control people that has any relationship to specific religion right I mean I think that um well religion is suppresses science they they go by you know you got to be you got to believe in this God spiritualness I believe in spiritualness I believe in some entity out there but I know that they abused like psychological science of like like if you have like 100 people controlling this country and there's like millions of people that's not killing these hundred people that's control well anytime you make no sense right Mike like well anytime you have information life doesn't make sense us living doesn't make sense I mean that's crazy anytime you have information that about something that is powerful do you think you make sense well I I hope I I hope I made a little sense today do you think you make sense to me or to other people it's just to you and what you discovered since you've been living in life do you think that makes sense is just what you learned that somebody wrote down yeah I you know I consider myself an Explorer brain Explorer um you know I like to think that with introspection we can understand our minds to some extent to some extent and I like to think that by observing nature and other people we can start to understand some of the general principles that led us hopefully Thrive but but I don't claim to have answers about the big picture like you're asking about the big picture yeah I mean I mean sometimes I'm afraid I don't have a name no but it is in front of our faces sometimes but it's just like I guess they they use like you know you gotta believe in something to there's rules in the game like you know oh telling people what to believe is is always like my mom is old school like she's prays every day she believes you know sinning is like the worst thing possible where you know and this is mind-boggling the way we live now with technology but I think you can have a good relationship to science and still have a sense of higher power many people do and higher power to some people is is God in one form higher power in another form is um is situational like the higher power of a need for a community to work together a family to work together you know I know many scientists who are just pure atheists I know many scientists who are agnostic they're not they're undecided and I know a fair number of scientists including some that I work closely with um back at Stanford who would quote describe themselves as religious as having a very close relationship to God so I've seen it all always my dad's 80th birthday is coming up I want to get that guy to come on uh to come to his birthday that it is it's insane listen um he's a little [ __ ] geeky white boy right [ __ ] he said tell me who you're thinking about right now and give me his nickname really I'll go like this in my mind it's in my mind and tell me it's Jack Johnson he said give me the initiative he said if the initial to this name JJ and he had J and J written on his fingers right no no no no no and that's it what's the nickname the nickname is Big Black this is in my mind my mind I I've met Aussie wind I met him I saw him do a little guy so small yeah and people said you got to see this guy Mentalist I'm like I'm a neuroscience whatever it is unbelievable can I tell you what he did without me he gave me a card right and a pen he left I wrote I signed on that card okay okay I folded up because he told me to tore it up all right put it in my pocket okay I kept the pen okay he comes back in and by the way I shielded from anything couldn't see we do the whole thing he had brought me up to the table in front of people we go through the whole thing he did a bunch of amazing car tricks bunch of Mentalist stuff like all of that and then he's like get the get it out of your pocket so go into my pocket it's not there he goes take off your right shoe take out my my right shoe I take off my right shoe and at the bottom of it is the card intact not torn up with my signature on it no way and listen wait I don't smoke weed I don't drink alcohol I was not on any substance to this day I cannot understand what he did because I am and remember there's an audience listen at close proximity so you you have everything he don't have nothing he has to rip it up put it in your pocket you don't have nothing this is an issues if there was a nickname is a big black that was Jack Johnson's uh yeah goodness so I do think there are things Beyond our comprehension clearly and you know whether or not he and other people are a portal to that through some you know some people you know I the other day someone said to me um they said this about themselves they said I think in feels and I said what do you mean you think and feels they're like you have thoughts you think this this this like Google Maps go here just go there but they they said they think in feels that they that their thoughts are an arrangement of feelings in their body I could say that and so some people I think just go through life differently you know a uh mantis shrimp sees for every color shade of red we see they see about 40 other shades of red that are there I mean a pit viper can sense heat emissions I mean there's a lot else going on that we don't see because we don't have the nervous system for it and so there is this idea that maybe some nervous systems are able to detect things I mean turtles can navigate by magnetic fields and the studies of Magneto reception in humans we all have not inconclusive no but sometimes we touch these static electricity yeah yeah no there's a weak magnetoreception in some people that has been documented as published in Science magazine I'm not just gonna throw not some Journal made up you know and yeah so I think that people are tuned up differently and developmentally we go through life experiencing different things and our brain is customized to our own experience I mean you were raising in a very particular set of circumstances that made your mind and your body optimized for 100 things yeah I mean you were built to be this Warrior right and most people don't are raised that way some kids it's music some you know the kid that feels music was or the the ability to write music was like put in them I mean they feel that the same way you knew about you now and that's not me I have no musical ability you know Will I Am you ever met who I am no so he produces by everybody knows like the colors of the normal orange red whatever but he goes he does his Beats through other spectrums like ultraviolet nobody pays attention to those like x-ray so he uses those kind of like easy interesting some people have um synesthesia which is a blending where they they see they hear a note of music and they see a color that's what it does and they literally can just see it as color but you know that's not entirely unusual this is where I think the crossover into psychedelics is it's relevant right I mean I think psychedelics we know broaden the connectivity in the brain the psilocybin in particular in a way that allows people to create new associations and again I don't think people especially kids should be messing around with it recreationally adults clinical studies right so it's not even still illegal Oregon it's pseudo-legal um I think in 2020 5 or 20 26 that may change but right now it's short right 15 minutes or so yeah yeah I feel like a thousand years how many times have you done it right 85 85 yeah wow is that combo is that the same thing as the no that's different what about iboggan ebola oh I want to try that so iboga is from Africa yeah so iboga you have to be careful you have a heart condition it's not legal in this country but it's being used to treat opioid Adventure iboga is 22 hours long yeah and iboga I know someone from the veterans community who did this recently and got great relief from their PTSD for it I was told they closed their eyes and they would get like a movie quality image of past experiences but they had control over what they did in those experiences open their eyes hallucination stop so iboga is a um it's a bit of a controversial one because people can die on it you need someone there to monitor your heart Etc but um it's also showing interesting you know it's not conclusive but interesting stuff on helping people get over um I'm gonna try snake win them too oh goodness oh god really snake Which snake I know a lot about Ben White Cobra probably oh goodness okay um yeah like those be careful please after everything you've been through for you to die from a self-induced snake venom would be would be tragic I mean that's that's where I want to go okay what what entices you about snake venom yeah because I know it's um it's a good medicine I think I would enjoy that yeah okay please have a physician there exactly I hope so too yeah well we want we they yeah they got these beautiful kids and beautiful wife you know you got a lot to live for yeah it's gonna be okay okay well I like your attitude I mean I like your attitude you know I know a lot of rappers in Chicago and they dealt with like gun violence Services their kids and they're big now but now they move they live in L.A Miami how do you help them I mean with their PTSD like they said they have to one help they still got to be like you know like G herbo I mean you met a lot of these rappers a little dirt it was like yeah yeah it's the hyper vigil about meeting them how are you talking to them right now how would they help why would you help them yeah the hyper vigilance well you know I'm a believer that everybody not just people with PTSD need to have two sets of tools for stress remember sleep is the way that you reset your brain and body but you need tools to calm yourself down in real time and you need tools that bring your level of you know stress down every day for some people that's meditation for some people that's prayer yoga exercise I mean listen you're talking about religion earlier I will say that there are certain elements of prayer that really helped people okay and I'm not here to represent religion that's not I'm a scientist but but I think that many people get a lot out of prayer um meditation a lot of people get a lot out of that but having some practice of five to ten minutes long per day where they just Center themselves meditative practice prayer practice has we know from the data are that's very valuable just five minutes maybe or so the other thing is a real-time tool and actually my laboratory has worked extensively on these tools to deal with stress in real time one of the fastest ways to calm yourself down is to take two deep inhales through your nose with nothing in between and then a long exhale through the mouth it's called a physiological side I didn't Discover it was discovered in the 1930s dogs do this before they go to sleep you'll see it's like this big inhale through the nose twice here let's do it right now um but that double inhale through the nose long exhale through the mouth he's the head of the game um um yeah that's that's the fastest way we know to calm down then for PTSD itself I recommend they explore two things find somebody who really does quality PTSD therapy some people use EMDR the eye movement okay but there's very interesting work going on right now using um like respiration practices that are a bit more of the hyperventilation type getting people into those Amplified States and then teaching them um some people get great benefit from you know they can write to the maps group which is legally able to use pts uh MDMA to treat PTSD I feel bad for them like imagine Mike possibly hearing gunshots camera hit as many tens of millions of views tells them how they can get in touch with you okay so um best way to get in touch with me is if you want to learn more about brain science Health Science everything from Fitness mental health Etc all of that is at hubermanlab.com we have all the episodes of The huberman Lab podcast comes out every Monday and sometimes we have a special series um we have a mental health series coming out in September and again kubernetlab.com you can find it in all formats it's all zero cost to access I was saying earlier I don't know if it was while we were wrong that uh Mike is one of the few people on Earth perhaps the one who can wear his old shirt and it looks cool thank you for the and they got us I've never been on a podcast where I got uh yeah okay I mean I am of age I don't indulge in cannabis but I know people who do um and the Mike Tyson bites it's in the shape of evander's Holyfield whatever happened to that little piece that's gone I gave it back to him well at first I did but once they took it in um they put in some yeah oh goodness but you're friends now yeah proof that humans can reconcile absolutely yeah I'm grateful for your time thank you thank you appreciate you and thank you appreciate you of course man cool guy man well likewise hey everybody this is another episode of hot boxing and that was me Mike Tyson giving the interview and I'm here with Andrew and kids

Channel: Hotboxin' with Mike Tyson

Views: 205,986

Keywords: Mike Tyson, Boxing, Hotboxing, Hotboxin, Hotboxin', Podcast, New Show, MMA, UFC, Combat Sports, Mike Tyson Interview, Mike Tyson Hotboxin, Mike Tyson Podcast, Sports Podcast, Iron Mike, Interview, Andrew huberman, mental health, wellness, lifestyle, Andrew huberman morning routine, Andrew huberman shark, Andrew huberman adhd, Andrew huberman podcast, Andrew huberman sleep, Andrew huberman meditation, Andrew huberman fast, Andrew huberman supplements, meditation, huberman lab

Id: jwjCuzoLeh0

Length: 67min 38sec (4058 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 20 2023