Anderson Cooper with Andy Cohen: Astor: The Rise and Fall of an American Fortune

ah they forgot your wine I got my wine yes yes good evening everybody it's great to be back how exciting we're Andy wanted to remind me right before we came out that the last time we were on stage together when his book came out a few months ago I had to leave early to go and do my program and that I left him alone on stage for half an hour I did I was sitting here with cards answering questions anyway Anderson we are all so excited about your new book Aster are we yes we are thank you we are um you are just I like I always love it when someone said I'm so excited about your new book Aster makes me feel good you look so lifelike tonight well thank you it's yeah I wore a jewel tone sure I know I was told that's what it's called and I thought it might bring some life to my otherwise dead looking face yes yeah your net you're nearly translucent if it wasn't for the glasses I would disappear no one would see me Andy doesn't like the class not with those peepers not with those peepers the asters slumlords all of them oh God they really were uh yeah so the Asters made John Jacob Astor came to America uh and his brother was here already very successful butcher in New York in the late 1700s butchers all right I love it yes uh and uh John Jacob Aster made his first Fortune became a multi-millionaire probably the first in America or considered the first America in the beaver trade and he was particularly Bieber pelts were incredibly valuable the markup was like 600 percent they would be sold in in Europe uh for it to make hats and coats but but hats they held their shape longer um but John Jacob Aster monopolized the beaver trade in America and he did it in an incredibly ruthless way and an incredibly Insidious way which was using alcohol with indigenous populations so he would ply uh Native American uh populations with alcohol in order to get the better in business trades the US Government tried to stop this in outposts for the beaver trade John Jacob Pastor basically did everything he could to shut the US government down in this endeavor and he also was ruthless with the traders who were the people actually making these deals with uh indigenous populations by basically making them indebted to the aster estate for all their bargaining Goods so it was a really Insidious it was a ruthless bloody fortune and then he plowed all that money into New York real estate and you know toward the end of his life he famously said something along the lines of you know had I to do it over again and enough money I would have invested every penny in New York real estate which was probably a thought everybody has at one time or another who lives in New York But the lease structure they the Astros own the land upon which much of the land upon which New York was built and they would rent out for like in like 20-year leases to a sub-landlord I lost you I know but no you have I read the book I know you did you're explaining it to the people I read the book I know to it they they would rent out the land like the area around you know all of Greenwich Village for instance they owned and uh they would rent out the land in 20-year leases to a sub landlord who would then build the building on it and operate that building for 20 years however they wanted to and then at the end of the 20 years it would revert back to the Asters building and all and what that meant was the incentive for that sub landlord was build the biggest building you can pack it with as many immigrants as possible per room and never repair the building because what's the point of repairing a building that you're going to give up in 20 years so that is why you ended up with all these tenements in Sloan it's the only bigger slumlord in New York City at the time was Trinity Church wow yeah sorry um now dive little diversion from the Asters we find out at the beginning of the book something that I don't believe that I knew about you uh full of mysteries you are uh which is that you were a waiter for a short period I was yes um at the worst waiter in New York no doubt yes um and you described I would say now I would be a good waiter no I agree yeah but but you describe Yours by the way you waited on my family and I we came over to your house for lunch on Saturday yes and you actually served us I learned at uh there used to be a restaurant in New York called mortimer's on 75th and Lexington which was if people are of a certain age they probably have heard of mortimer's in the start in the late 70s in the 80s and early 90s it was on Upper East New York Society it was the restaurant it was owned by this guy Glenn Birnbaum who literally lived above the restaurant I used to go eat there there all the time with my mom and my brother and it was a wild show I mean Dominic Dunn I think called it one of the you know the best shows in New York if you get a table but don't count on getting a table because there was allegedly there were no reservations but Glenn burnbound hit for his friends had all the tables at the front and he would he was very judgmental literally like anybody walked in the restaurant like if he just didn't like the look of them they would be banned into Siberia which was the back of the restaurant or the Outdoor Cafe where I waited tables um but yeah I I used to go there that's how I first met Brook Astor I was 13 she came into the and that's how the book starts I'm 13. I didn't know who the Asters were Brooke Astor comes in and my thought was who is this little old lady in a very big fur coat not knowing that the Astor's 250 years prior made their fortune in the Bloody Business of beaver fur but she was wearing Sable that day uh but anyway Bloody Business beaver fur it was a Bloody Bill I know that's so dramatic I know uh she she came over to the table and she said oh hi to my mom and said something to the effect of like who are these handsome gentlemen you're with or something like that and we my brother and I stood up we shook hands and that was my first meeting with her I could tell instantly my mom did not like Brooke Astor like I knew my mom like up and down there were no secrets I knew everything about her and as soon as I saw their interaction in like two sentences I was like oh she doesn't like her and then afterward I was like what's the deal why don't you like Brooke Astor and my mom would my mom was she would never say really anything bad about somebody uh but when she did she would use words that were just sort of very unique to her so her biggest insult was like they're Dreadful that was and so that was as tie the way she passed that one on I know I do use the dread it's a good word I mean there's so many Dreadful people these days as you well know uh as you well know [Laughter] anyway eyes you swim in your own filthy mom fast forward four years or something I am working one summer as a waiter at mortimer's because I was obsessed with uh like making money making money and preparing for my future because I knew I was on a sinking ship and uh uh so I'm working as a waiter in the Outdoor Cafe and I'm the worst waiter the only thing I learned is how to hold two plates in one hand which is you know using these fingers to balance the top plate but I couldn't figure out a system to do multiple things at once I would like oh you need a new one sure I'll take this glass and I'll do that as opposed to also picking up your knife and fork and bringing in and bringing a new one I would make individual trips which meant that I would come back sweating and just exhaust it got to the point that summer I was asking people not to sit at my stations at my tables I was like I'm new like you should just sit over there like the waiter is much much better anyway the reason I mention this is I have this meaningless encounter with Brooke Astor when I'm 17 that for her was meaningless for me actually took on great meaning which and it's in the introduction of the book which is I'm walking in to give an order into the kitchen Brooke Astor is either coming to or leaving or going to the bathroom and we passed each other and I say and I've met her at this point like maybe four times or something in my life and there's really no reason she would recognize me but I said hello Mrs Astor and she looked up and there was a mo when I said her name she looked up and this like there was a slight curl of the lip almost like it was about to break into a smile and then she looked at me and she looked instantly saw my waiter's uniform didn't recognize you know I'm not standing next to Gloria Vanderbilt so she doesn't recognize me as Gloria Vanderbilt's son I'm the waiter and she just looks right through me and the the smile that started just disappears and she just kept on walking and for me it was I mean I always knew I'd had great privileges growing up I always knew that you know I got treated differently when I was with my mom then I got treated when I was taking the public bus to New York to school every morning uh but to such a man of the people yeah I'm very much man with people thank you I knew if I mentioned that I took the bus every day you would make a dig about it but I don't know why but I knew you would it just anyway for me it was a it was a moment where I really took the public bus to Dalton thank you fair enough yeah before or after you were a child model anywhere aren't you glad I brought the wine out for you we're only at the beginning but but for me it was a moment of sort of just Clarity of you know what side of the table I was seeing life from a different side of the table and and it made me think about what side of the table do I want to be on do I even want to be at this table at all right and I did not want to meet at the table right um so John Jacob Aster yes cheap cheap cheap yes yes my favorite my favorite little detail about John Jacob Astor the creator of this Mass Fortune uh was that in his later years in uh as right before he died he uh was actually fed by a wet nurse every day yes yeah think about that Ah that's the life yeah now I could not find the manner with which he was fed by a wet nurse history doesn't record whether it was direct or like you know here's your your warm milk uh he was also he was also routinely tossed in blankets by large orderlies to improve his circulation and then fed by the wet nurse um how Little Pleasures I get yes imagining these things there are a lot of fun little details throughout the book um talk to us about what real estate throughout New York City the Asters owned because it's quite I mean as with your last book about the Vanderbilts it is so interesting hearing about where they were and yeah and it's hard to find we I could not get an actual like one map that had it all okay Greenwich Village was the Asters yeah uh Astor Place Asters lived on you know everybody lived far downtown in New York obviously when New York first started gradually as the city grew grew northward you know Central Park was built and then houses were buildings were built around it right um so Greenwich Village asked to replace the Starbucks at Astor Place is was the site of the Astor opera house which had nothing to do with the Asters it was just branded Aster because by that even by that point uh in the 1800s the name Aster had taken on all this meaning and businesses would adapt it it's like Astoria in Queens actually has nothing to do with the Asters but the developer of Astoria wanted to get John Jacob Astor's attention because he lived right across in Yorkville and would look over to Astoria he wanted John Jacob Aster to invest in it John Jacob bastard never did but he called it Astoria to try to get John Jacob basketball wow that's why it's Astoria so if you go to the Astro Place subway stop now you know I'm sure you know that there are ceramic tiles of beavers gnawing on trees and the reason is because of the Asters and the first Fortune being beavers so the at the the Starbucks at asker place was the site of the Astor opera house which is the site of the strangest and at the time deadliest riot in New York uh in New York history and it was a riot ostensibly over two competing Productions of Macbeth I kid you not one of them took place at the fancy schmancy Astra Place opera house which was built in order for Italian operas and even back then there was no real market for Italian opera so they quickly as opposed to today we're true of course who would not be beating down the the doors I'm I have a curtain today at nine o'clock tonight and the other theater was on on the Bowery and the Bowery was like working class Rough and Tumble and that the the actor who was playing Macbeth in the Bowery theater I forgot the name of the Bowery theater but it was on the Bowery was uh was this actor who was beloved among like Working Class People in New York and in America very famous actor the actor who was playing Macbeth in the fancy schmancy Astra opera house was this British guy who was very sort of considered a feat and high class and there was this deadly Riot dozens of people were killed in it and it took place on William uh on one of the Astros doorsteps wow yeah so also Carl Shores Park Yorkville that whole area the astrosome Astra used to live at 10 Gracie square and an apartment actually my mom used to live in uh decades later much around Times Square where the Empire State State Building that was astral land the original Waldorf Astoria was down there and the waldorver story is crazy I the world of her story was basically built by two competing branchers cousins in the Astra family who hated each other and one of them ran for office uh in uh or am I getting ahead of myself or go for it one of them ran for office in New York and he was just a terrible politician he was like this very wealthy guy who would wear gloves because he didn't want to actually Shake anybody's it was his district was all it were people it was like working class Germans and he did speak German because he had he had learned it in school so he could do that but he would like go into bars and buy drinks for everybody but as soon as like people were drinking he would like get out and there'd be a carriage waiting for him and he'd be like you know they didn't have you know sanitizer back then but uh he would have been doing it anyway he built when he finally he lost the race for Congress and he was like oh you America I'm going to England I'm going to uproot my branch of the family I'm going to England and he tore down the mansion that his father had built side by side to his cousin's Mansion where V Mrs Astor lived who was like the doian of New York Society he tore down his Mansion as he's leaving and builds this giant hotel The Waldorf Hotel and Caroline asked her who's ruling New York Society you know and determining who gets in and who's not who's in who's out what it means to be in society is appalled that this huge like 19-story building is built and suddenly her you know rinky dinky Mansion is in the shadow of this and they have to live through the construction like everybody in New York does and she's just sitting there fuming for like two years that it takes to build the Waldorf she thinks about like tearing down to her house and building a stable so anyone coming to the hotel will have to smell horse um but finally her son jack asked her who later dies in the Titanic says to like when they find out that the Waldorf is making two million dollars in their first year they're like kaching because they're wasps and in truth we all want the money uh they decide to sell the get rid of their house tear it down and they build their own hotel the Astoria and then they finally make a truce and they connect it with uh Peacock Alley and they make it the Waldorf Astoria Hotel and that's the history of the Waldorf a story Hotel oh they enjoy that who knew wow and that's where the Empire State building is now the of course the Waldorf moved up to Park later William the son is described as the richest and least attractive young man of his time yes I believe he had an unfortunate sort of lip yeah among other things um Jack Esther you mentioned died in the Titanic yeah Jack Astor who so how many people here watch like the Gilded Age okay I've never seen it but uh but I know all those characters are fictionalized one of those characters is Caroline Astor and Caroline Astor who shows up in the Vanderbilt book that that Catherine Howe and I wrote uh two years ago Caroline asked her uh you know really defined New York society and America did not have a sort of a high society of its own and Caroline asked her and her gay Walker Ward McAllister whose wife was never kind of seen um uh basically created what the rules were for New York society and it was basically copying everything French you have to have a French chef you have to eat french food you have to have French paintings you have to add French architecture and you had to be three generations removed from the uncouth making of the money so John Jacob Astor who was drenched in Beaver blood and also drenched in the pain of all these immigrants who were paying exorbitant prices to stay in in the slums upon which uh on the land he owned uh he was uncouth he could not have been in society but Caroline asked her with three generations removed from that unpleasantness so so that she made that the rule so the Vanderbilts when they came on the scene Commodore Vanderbilt was like uncouth you know pathologically focused on money just as John Jacob Esther was so he couldn't be a society figure his children couldn't even though his son doubled the fortune from 100 million to 200 million dollars which was more money that was in the U.S treasury at the time but their children were able to make an assault on Caroline Astor's fortified fortified Society by giving the biggest Party America had ever seen Alva Vanderbilt gave up the the party to end all parties and cleverly used the press to kind of in the run-up to it to build just a like a nationwide obsession with what this party was going to be like and it became like the New York Times printed the guest list on the front page that's how big it was Caroline Astor who was like at the ramparts of New York Society the Vanderbilts will never enter because they're so Nouveau rich and tacky her daughter Carrie was desperate to go to this party and so it boiled down to carry like annoying Caroline Astor pleading to go to this party Caroline Astra finally had to bend and acknowledge the Vanderbilt's existence by driving in her carriage and giving a card her calling card to her footman who then walked to the Vanderbilt Alba Vanderbilt's house rang the bell gave her calling card to the Vanderbilt footman and that was Caroline Astor recognizing the Vanderbilts getting invited to the party and that's what allowed the Vanderbilts to come and sort of end up dominating New York Society back exhausting you're you're very verbal tonight I'm very high I I find this fascinating I find these families me too I really the book is really it's it's you throw in a lot of details that are so fun and interesting but back to Jack Astor who died in the Titanic um was he also a horrible person look people are multifaceted so I don't like to you know everybody has good days and bad days Jack asked her so Jack Astor is the son of Caroline asker or Jack Astor um thank you did become known uh like as jackass tur for a while really yes that's funny because a because they uh what at the time was called a uh today a you know a person who lived on the street uh got into the aster Mansion before it was torn down next to the Waldorf and found a warm room to sleep in on the top floor which was one of the maids rooms and was discovered there by the maid at 1am when the maid finally was allowed to stop working for three hours and uh was arrested and Jack and and like got a light sentence so like was out the next day and Jack Castor had would have none of it it was like this person has broken into our house and they deserved to be in life in jail or you know a lengthy prison sentence anyway Jack hastert got chart more charges brought and he became known as at the time as jackass tour wow for his treatment of getting the law to really go after this this but yes he uh he had a very unhappy marriage to a woman who's actually uh this is uh his first wife on the cover of the book and she famously loved to play bridge he did not so he was just miserable the whole time he finally divorces her there's a huge Society Scandal and he marries an 18 year old woman who he had met when she was younger and um they honey there's such a scandal that they go to like Egypt and they spend a month's honeymooning in Egypt and in Europe uh they spent some time in Egypt with the Unsinkable Molly Brown who ironically is also on the Titanic uh yeah um and Unsinkable I got it okay fine um again I read the book I'm what you're telling me I know because I've read it so Jack Astor was probably the richest person on the Titanic which had an awful lot of rich people they had Pisces was on the boat as well who also died he died his body was recovered um and he a pocket watch he had on the boat was also recovered at the time uh that remained in the Astra family finally ended up his son carried it for the rest of his life did Vincent Astro carried it Vincent so inherited the entire astral Fortune at the age of 21 when Jack Astor died Jack haster's wife was pregnant on the Titanic she survived uh the baby was a boy named Jakey uh and he inherited five million dollars and his wife inherited money but Vincent the sun inherited the bulk of the fortune um I'm upset that you and I never got to visit Mrs Astor's bar yes so one of the things that that this book that Catherine and I wanted to do in this book is it's not just about the Asters themselves it's about the the name the idea of Aster and the name Aster and what it came to me in in very unexpected ways in America and around the world and it became I mean certainly to me sort of you know be synonymous with with the elegance and style and sophistication it's why Mary asked her the famous actress that's not her actual name she she and her team of people picked ask her because it was a fancy name and she wanted that connotation there was an aster Hotel uh on in Broadway on Broadway that opened up right around the time that the New York Times moved to Long Acre square and longer acre square became Times Square and electric lights went and uh will who had departed to England and built the Waldorf realized there's money to be made in the hotels so he built the another Astro hotel right by Times Square and there was a bar in the lobby of the Astra Hotel it was 160 foot long oval shaped bar and it became known as Mrs Astor's bar uh among gay people in New York because secretly although Benoist to the management of the hotel but it became one of the Prime gay bars in New York starting around like 1906. um particularly uh visited by service members in World War One World War II it was a place where service members knew they could go and meet other service members officers and Enlisted the area Outside The Astor Hotel it was known as the meat rack which is a term you may have heard before if you've ever been to Fire Island um and uh that we're covering it all tonight but but it was interesting and the the scene at the Astor bar Mrs Astor's bar which again was not the name it was officially called but that's what it was known as was this fascinating scene where it was an oval so there's no actual sides to it but one side was the gay side the other side was the straight side and this was an unspoken rule so a businessman coming to New York staying at the Astro Hotel could go to The Astor bar and might find themselves on either side of the bar and they wouldn't necessarily know that they were on the wrong side depending on what their persuasion might have been um but for those in the know on the gay side you couldn't be too demonstrable there was no like girl and uh there was no making out of the bar nothing of the sort you know you're familiar with and oh you do not want to open that up girl did you just say girl whatever um so but but wow we got to hear him say and girl I apologize um but it was you know it was Marines and and uh folks who had been in the Army and sailors and Georgia get the picture George Gershwin yeah and you know show people from Times Square it sounds like paradise it was a really interesting interesting scene and there was a there was a cigarette what they called a cigarette girl at the time she was of a certain age so she was I think a little bit older and she would she was sort of like the Greek Chorus at from all accounts she was like the Greek Chorus at Mrs Astor's bar and she would like be going around like smacking gum with her you know pack of like cigarettes and gum and whatever and sort of making a running commentary on stuff that was going on in Mrs Esther's bar and she famously sort of you know said to one Marine like oh yeah you know I wish you would change sides or um but uh yeah it's sort of a legendary scene it became kind of dark later on there was a whole Scandal that we go into the Liberace was roped in and a whole bunch of like closeted gay guys were in ropes I was waiting for Lee to make an appearance does make an appearance um uh it's worth noting I thought it was interesting to know you know Brooke Astor she um what's his name Esther was her second husband I mean she was not yeah I mean she was okay but she wasn't this is the craziest uh marriage proposal you have ever heard Brook Esther uh as actually it's the third husband Brooke Astor 17 goes to a dance meets this guy Dryden Kuser marries him he's a Princeton he turns out to be like not only Flander or an awful but like a wife beater and terrible uh she has her first and only child Tony with him they finally get divorced he is the one who divorces he finds somebody else she divorces him uh she meets this other guy they're married for like 20 years very happily married there too the son neither of them really seem to like the sun very much Tony he shipped off to a succession of boarding schools from a pretty young age and then goes into the CIA and then tries to become an ambassador her second husband dies after some 20 years of marriage and she does not have a ton of money she her husband was like a stock broker but I had some Financial setbacks so she's single she's working at a magazine but not earning a lot of money she's formed her own life but she knows she's going to have to like sell the country house they have uh they're gonna have to you know she's gonna have to economize and she's at her dinner party about six months after her husband has died and Vincent Astor is sitting across from her the dinner party who she knows vaguely socially Vincent asked her is there with his second wife Minnie now turns out Vincent and Minnie are desperately unhappy Minnie has desperately asked Vincent for divorce it's Vincent's second marriage Vincent refuses to divorce Minnie until Minnie finds a third person to become the new Mrs Vincent Astor they had tried with one other woman who had recently divorced a Prescott Bush from the Bush family who had money of her own and when Vincent Vincent asked by the way in every biography that's ever been written about him has described him as morose and he drank and smoked and I mean he was just not a really happy guy though he's really one of the few asked her men he's probably the first who really had a conscience and he's the one who got them out of a lot of the slum business sold off a lot of that property which financially was not a great decision but you know he did have a moral compass but it was smothered under alcohol and and a lot of other vices anyway he's looking for his third wife he sees this woman from the bush fam uh recent divorce from Prescott Bush uh proposes to her and she says to him marry you I don't even like you to which he responds well doctors say I only have about three years to live and then she says but Vincent what if they're wrong so that that proposal didn't go anywhere so in Desperate like they're like like Vincent and like Minnie or like utter Raptors you know utoraptors one distracts the other attacks from behind so they're at this party Brooke Astor is there Vincent is sitting across for her and Brooke later writes in her own Memoir Footprints uh which I highly recommend um that Vincent Astra is like staring at her all during the dinner and she's like what's going on why is he CR he looks crazy what's what's what is what did I ever do to him after the the dinner's done he makes a beeline for her takes her into an anti-chamber and says I'm so sorry I didn't reach out to you after your husband died tell me everything about you I want to know everything about you you're the most fascinating person in the room she's like taken aback Minnie then flits in and says oh darling Brooke why don't we take you in a ride why don't we drop you off on our way home I'll drop you off at sudden place so they take her in her car she's like okay drop in her car on the way there they're like why didn't you come to our to Ferncliff when you come to our house you know this weekend and she's like I don't even know these people I've just met them but okay sure she's like we'll ring you tomorrow and then Vincent's like we'll ring you tomorrow as they're coming as Brooke is going back into her apartment they like roll down the window and be like remember the weekend we're coming and I mean they're like desperate desperate desperate they ring her first thing in the morning first I think it was Vincent and then Minnie she schleps out to Ferncliff she's very disappointed with the the style of the house she puts herself away in a room she's not happy about the what the the decor of the room Vincent says hey why don't we go for a drive they go for a drive Vincent pulls over very quickly gets out of the car and says I would like to marry you this is like this is how fast it went and she of course was stunned she's like I I don't know what to say but she didn't say no and Vincent then disappears like two months in a pre-planned trip to Japan he writes her like five letters a day to various post offices around Connecticut around New York and Connecticut that she has to schlep to because allegedly he says he worked for military intelligence and therefore he needs to work send things to different post offices which sounds crazy to me but she found rather charming and she says it was those letters that made her marry him every most people feel like she married him for the money oh you think yes he lived for five and a half years and she inherited the entire Aster Fortune wow yeah and then how did it get blown so I mean half of the fortune basically half of the money was in a foundation the Vincent Astra had set up for the betterment of humanity that was kind of the ostensible reason it was also I mean tax purposes obviously as well but she was made head of that charity so she suddenly had this huge pool of money to do with as she wished to to give to charitable Endeavors what year was it basically when he died 59 okay yeah so I think it was yeah 59 it was five and a half years of marriage okay um and she decides this money is going to go to New York and because this is where the Astros made their money if we know how they made their money but this is if she's giving back to her which is a great thing too and over the course you know she gave back to some 200 million dollars or so over the course of of the next 20 30 years um and was seen doing it you know she liked to famously dress up in Chanel and you know all the Couture stuff she was wearing and driving her limo to a housing project that she had given you know 300 000 to to ostensibly see how the money was being spent and she would go and have a lunch with the people in the housing project and you know she was often she talked about being Charmed by the sort of the uh the the accoutrements on the table like the the the the ketchup and the mustard and uh you know the packets um she looked right through the waiters I heard yeah um but she did a lot look she gave a lot of money to the city and but she also became you know famous for it and and you know very much giving a party every night and going out to parties every night and and a society figure and I think that's one of the reasons my mom did not particularly like her she thought she was showy she just thought my mom just my mom you know I read in the book you know two people seeing Brooke Astor and Gloria Vanderbilt eating at different tables should essentially shoulder to shoulder and mortimers one afternoon if they were passing by the plate glass window mortimers would think oh these two women have a lot in common but my mom you know she was born came from that world she had that name but you know she was really interested in creating stuff and being around creative people and not you know my mom wasn't going to like society's parties and and having sort of fancy balls and stuff like that Brook's end was rather tragic she lived I mean she lived an incredibly long life she lived to I think 105 or so um but uh the last you know she started in her early to mid 90s uh she uh she had Alzheimer's she started to forget things she realized she was starting to slip a little she gave up decided to close down the foundation and this is an interesting moment because she her son her only son Tony who'd really not he'd been in the CIA for a while he had you know threw donations that Brooke had made in Republican circles he'd gotten some ambassadorships to uh you know Madagascar uh I think to Trinidad and Tobago not necessarily you know interestingly but not not you know it wasn't London it wasn't you know yes Russia it wasn't you know Moscow um and so his career sort of dried up ultimately and he washed ashore back in New York in his 50s and he needed something to do and Brooke tried to get him to like run the the Bronx Zoo and the Bronx Zoo board was like No And The Brook was on the the board of the med and she tried to get him to run the met and they were like no um and anyway she ended up giving him a job running her personal uh Investments and that's what his job was and he made a decent living doing that but um he was you know they had you know she hadn't been a great mother I mean there's she you know admitted that um she hadn't had a lot of time for him and there was a lot of you know drama between them uh and ultimately he is convicted of uh you know trying to Swindle her uh taking money from her um you know he married a a a not a you know woman 20 years his Junior um who had been married to the the pastor in the town in Maine the brook Astra had a house in uh which didn't endear her to Brooke Astor because then Brooke Astro was like I'm ashamed to go to the church because the pastor's wife is now with my son um anyway it ended very badly he went to jail he did he went to jail ultimately like it got dragged out he got convicted he and another guy and an attorney he had working for him they made her in her later years sign these wills and cut usles to Wills that she really she the the courts ruled you know she did not know what she was doing and I mean she kind of died alone she had nurses who really loved her and uh uh Annette de la Renta who was the executive of her estate was a tried and true friend and really devoted to her and was there when she died and Annette who's a lovely lovely woman um uh you know was was a true friend to her and and protected her and just wanted she and David Rockefeller just wanted Brooke's last years to be as comfortable as possible dignified right and so that they are the ones who along with uh Brooke's grandson Tony's one of Tony's Sons you know really pushed this that ended up in in the trial wow yeah um it's a it's it's a fascinating story and uh your zest for the details really come through uh I you know what what interests me about these families and it's am I talking too much probably sorry go ahead they're spontaneously laughing at you not really um you you were just on the cover of People magazine congratulations promoting the book and you said yes oh what an honor um but you but you said in there I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life that was the headline yeah and so talk to me about that where do you doubt this well I was like well this is headline news I mean I was over on Saturday and you weren't skipping around the house I mean I was like he's the happiest he's ever met well I let me read more where do you I know the answer to this but where do you find your joy I mean it's the kid I found my joy in my yes it um you know as somebody who grew up always wanting kids and always thinking I'm never going to be able to have kids right yes um same I had this magical thinking in my head that I would die at 50. my dad died at 50. his dad died at 50. and by the time I was read it and I also had this thing I don't want to have kids until I'm like stable and ready and financially stable and emotionally stable and I didn't feel that way to like I probably was 40 something and then at what age did you think you were emotionally stable [Laughter] I would say around 40. okay and uh I mean you know I mean look I was functional and stuff but but like in a really good place I felt uh I knew what I was doing and had some confidence which I hadn't had earlier and um but I knew if once I was 40 I was like well I can't have I'm gonna die in 10 years so I don't want to die at 50 like I did with my kid with my dad like my dad did and I I don't want my kids to be 10 when I die which is what I was so I chose not to have kids and then it's all crazy I mean many people who have lost a parent early on they have this kind of magical thinking um but I hit 51 I went to see my doctor and I was like you know I thought I would die this last year and he was like you're crazy like I'm showing you statistically like here you're fine you're going to be all right for a while and so that's when I decided I'll go ahead and have kids it makes no sense but no I I under I I think it does I think but it it is the greatest blessing I mean it's the most extraordinary thing and I've always thought kids are the most interesting people in any room I've ever been in yes you have um I've never like also so patient and I just want to I mean I just want to spend time with them I just love like I it's incredible I can't believe I I'm so lucky it's such a hard thing for for to do still uh for you know for same-sex couples and for for uh you know for anybody who who's trying to do this through surrogacy it's expensive it's difficult it takes a long time and and it's just an incredible blessing yeah and you're a great dad and a great zaddy I don't know what that means but you keep calling me it but I just ignore it I just smile and Nod and like uh-huh yeah sure I have to say through all the Sorrows through all the service um Michigan shenanigans that we've uh been through publicly uh you have remained at the top of every list of when people are surveyed of who is are the most trusted people in news you're always at the top and to me aside from the kids I mean to me that's your greatest accomplishment I think it's so hard to gain and keep people's trust especially in such a divided world uh and there was a survey that I read last year where among Fox News viewers you are you you are a very trusted person as well which I think is also very hard because you've worked so hard to be as down the middle as you possibly can how important is that to you and what do you do to maintain that um well thank you I'm not sure I believe surveys or polls and stuff we all have seen polls which you know say all sorts of things but um look I the honest answer is I try not to think too much about like I live in a universe where I I don't think of myself as somebody who has a public job and is on television I have a job that I go to and I do I don't I'm looking to a camera in a studio where there's a bunch of folks there who aren't paying attention to what I'm saying or you know they're like reading the paper and watching the game the you know they're the folks behind the camera just is that your show as well what did they pay attention to you yeah they but your room is smaller but I've seen them they're they're not yeah you think they're painted they're not really painful but excuse me but I I you know look I all I care about is getting better and doing a better job and all I see are my failures and all I see are like at the end of every night I'm I kick myself or oh I should have asked this question I should have done this you are very critical I'm highly highly critical and and that's you know look I I don't think any good comes from thinking about oneself in like the third person like you see these people who speak about themselves in the third person have you noticed this and it's insane like you know I mean I'm not going to name names but like yeah there's a whole bunch of people who talk about themselves in the third person it's just such a strange thing like I don't know I people come up to me on the street and say hi and I say hi and I think maybe I know them and that's I that's the Universe I prefer to live in so I want to get better at what I do I there's a lot million things I need to improve on and I wrote a book that with his title which is the rainbow comes and goes and like right it's very easy to like you know hear a nice question like that and start to believe it and right oh I mean you're a catastrophist yes but my but the story in the rainbow comes and goes which is from a Wordsworth poem and my mom would always say you know the rainbow comes and goes meaning like you know the rainbow it goes but it's going to come back she was optimistic I'm like yeah the rainbow comes and it goes like you're left in the dark like it really is may not come back it's so fun sometimes we're just I'm the rainbow is coming you're like the rainbow's here and I'm in it and I'm leprechaun and I'm jumping on it and it's true I wish I was I wish I was like Andy is the happiest person I know and I try I try I try with you oh yeah it does your therapist must have his hands full um I've had the same therapist since I was 21. I know I know uh we let's bring him out [Laughter] Dr Rosenbaum ont Harvey Rosenbaum everybody um I made that name up we have some questions from the audience uh will you be doing the New Year's Eve show this year on CNN together um I'm in are you I'm in hell yeah 20 24. can't wait Anderson here's a viewer question uh audience question how the heck do you accomplish at all friends kids journalist author what haven't you done that you'd like to pursue be with a woman [Laughter] is that on your bucket list for 2024 Anderson is there a lucky lady out there he's very tactile he loves to be touched not a big cuddler so besides making love to a woman by the way my son is in the audience okay well he also doesn't understand anything else on your list well that's a big one big one um what prominent family today would you say is the most similar to The Astor so this is interesting is there some slumlord Among Us no but this is interesting because you know if if you had been uh alive when Vincent asked her when Jack Astor died and Vincent Astra inherited his fortune people gathered in New York they gathered the the aster estate Counting house the office where Vince Nestor was working to see him on the day that he inherited all this money just to what just to see him just like people used to gather Walt Whitman as a child remembers Gathering outside John jacobassador's house just to see this great man like being carried out by attendance you know with the wet nurse in tow uh into a sleigh and Walt Whitman wrote about this uh later on in life from the outside looking in you think all these things about these people just as you know these people we read about today Elon Musk and and you know all the people have outrageous fortunes and we all you know we we have our nose pressed against the glass and we imagine what their life is and what their boat is like and all this stuff the the lived experience of those people and the people in their family and the generations to come in that family and those stories of course have not been written but that's what I find so interesting because the libs experience and again I know this because I grew up you know every time early on when when I started to become you know more public in my job and people started to write about me it was always like the Scion of the Vanderbilt family as if there was some sort of like enormous Vanderbilt family that every night I went back to and was like Mama and Papa and Grandpa look what I did today uh and you know every day it you know like and it's so interesting because for me the reality of my life from the time I was a little kid was nothing of that it was it was antithetical to that actually and so I'm so interested in the lived experiences of these people and I'm so interested in to see uh the the Elon Musk and and you know all of these other you know bold face names to see the Ripple effects over the generations of what happened I mean I won't be around to see it but but the Ripple effects of of the creation of these fortunes you know we the people who created these fortunes initially John Jacob bastard commodore vanderbold in my estimation have a pathological there's a pathology behind it you don't create the the fortune that Commodore Vanderbilt created uh first fortune in steamships and then in railroads 100 million dollars in when he died in 1877 that's one in every twenty dollars in circulation more money than it was in the U.S treasury that his son doubled to 200 million John Jacob asked her dying with more money than anybody had ever seen at that time in American history you don't create those fortunes without having a a pathology behind it without having a drive that makes you a difficult person to be around and maybe miserable to your family and your kids but that is what you care about Governor Vanderbilt talked about a Mania for making money and I I think it's the same with a lot of these people who created these fortunes and the Ripple effects of that pathology through the generations there's no way to to predict what it is but but there is in a way because you can look at the Asters you can look at the Vanderbilts and you can see what the Ripple effects of it are and all these people if you would talk to Commodore Vanderbilt or his son who made who had 200 million dollars when he died they would have they built these palaces thinking this stuff would last forever and within 60 years most of those palaces were torn down you know you can go to Newport and the breakers and see a couple of them but most of them are gone and you know we all look at these people today and think oh my God this the fortunes no there's never been somebody like Elon Musk there's never there have been it's John Jacob Astor it's Commodore Vanderbilt this has all happened before and we've all seen this before and the cycles of history just fascinated me seems like you could lose it easier today than then for some reason I I think you're less protected than you were I mean you know you can make a a public mistake you have you you are accessible to the public these people are accessible to the public in a way and depend on the public in a way that I think Commodore Vanderbilt and John Jacob Vassar certainly didn't uh this is from Brit uh hi ac2 love you both love the dichotomy between the styles of your two books I think it mirrors the dichotomy between you two my question is with such different jobs you have what's one part of the other's job that you would want no I no no I would like to enter that's fine no no no I would like to interview politicians or newsmakers yeah I think it would be I mean I worked at CBS news for 10 years I I would like what I love about what you've been able to do uh is everything you do is exactly who you are it is and that was one of the things you always dreamed of when you were a kid you wanted to be yourself in the in the public sphere yeah and in whatever that however that permutation was and I think you've been able that's so rare and so there are times I certainly would love to kind of show more sides of myself in you know in but but often you know I'm I'm doing a nightly broadcast and it's not you know it just doesn't come into play right um Ashley from Hoboken wants to know of all the Asters you learned about who's your favorite and why I love there's um there's this house called rokeby which is in Upstate New York and it's been in the Astor family uh for a very very long time uh and it is still the descendants of this line of asters still living it and it's available for like weddings and photo shoots and um it's it's sort of decaying and they're keeping it up as best they can uh I haven't been there it looks extraordinary um but the story of The Astor orphans who lived in that house is to me a fascinating story it's it's in the book um it's a great story it's wild yeah it's a really wild story and just a lot of them you know the thing you don't really we don't think about is you know I'm very interested obviously in grief and loss and I have a podcast I've been doing about it I'm working on a second podcast about it um but in writing this you just you you you're just reminded of how much pain and loss there was there has always been but particularly back then you know people would have 10 children and only five of them would survive into adulthood right and you know someone would go to a funeral of somebody and catch a cold and two weeks later they would be dead of pneumonia right and it it's I don't know there's such it doesn't come out often in history books but that's sort of that that familiarity with death is yeah I just think it's really interesting and something that that was such a part of life then yeah what an up way to end this conversation I mean Anderson loved chatting with you thank you uh love the book thank you uh and you believe you're all getting a copy so that's exciting and thank you all for coming out much I really appreciate you on New Year's Eve thank you Anderson

Channel: The 92nd Street Y, New York

Views: 109,327

Keywords: 92nd Street Y, 92nd Street Y New York, 92NY

Id: XWUuWcnNljA

Length: 56min 15sec (3375 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 19 2023