An old interview with the luminary poet Seamus Heaney

between my finger between my finger and my thumb the squat pen rests snug as a gun under my window a clean rasping sound when the spade sinks into gravelly ground my father digging i look down till his straining rump among the flower beds bends low comes up 20 years away stooping in rhythm through potato drills where he was digging the coarse boot nestled on the lug the shaft against the inside knee was levered firmly he rooted out tall tops buried the bright edge deep to scatter new potatoes that we picked loving their cool hardness in our hands by god the old man could handle a spade just like his old man my grandfather cut more turf in a day than any other man on toner's bug once i carried him milk in a bottle corked sloppily with paper he straightened up to drink it then fell to right away nicking and slicing neatly heaving swords over his shoulder going down and down for the good turf digging the cold smell of potato mold the squelch and slap of soggy peat the curd cuts of an edge through living roots awaken in my head but i have no spade to follow men like them between my finger and my thumb the squat pen rests i'll dig with it [Music] [Applause] [Music] brockport writers forum presents another in its exclusive and continuing series of discussions with leading literary contemporaries today the poetry of sheamus heaney here to introduce the participants and guest is today's program host gregory fitzgerald department of english state university of new york college at brockport [Music] welcome to the writers forum i'm gregory fitzgerald and the guest of the forum today is seamus heaney the irish poet about whom robert lowell our own american poet has said that he is the best irish poet since uh william butler yates uh with me today to interview shimashini is our own poet william han of the state university college at brockport's department of english and earl ingersoll our expert in irish literature welcome to the writers forum uh i want to ask you the first question which is this what is it like to be a roman catholic poet among a hostile environment in ulster well i think that melodramatizes it greg if you don't mind me saying so all right i grew up in ulster as a catholic in the minority and of course in general the political climate and the cultural climate was generally hostile to the kind of attitudes and values that i would have exposed in other words the official ulster unionist culture was was british and it it refused the idea of an irish dimension on the other hand there's a great comfort in being the opposed one you know there is a kind of paradoxical security and and and feeling that you are the ill-done by group it gives you a a sense of uh something um slight radiusness a little extra energy a little extra energy perhaps i mean they so that um i think that um and also the word catholic uh i've been thinking about this roman catholic port you know that's that's that's dante alighieri rather than the roman catholic equals in northern ireland minority irish possibly republican so there's a nexus of of values that are related to to irish politics in the world roman catholic also more and more actually i'm beginning to think that the roman catholic thing per se the strictly uh theological word mystery uh consecration the whole the whole religious mystery that was part of the world i grew up in more and more i think that's probably valuable and precious and i've probably underrated how much it has influenced my attitude to to poetry the belief in words themselves the power magical power of a word that was partly in the in the strict catholic words of consecration shall we say at mass and it was also in the inherited subcultural pagan um irish fear of the word you know i mean the country people i grew up among had a fear of saying bad things in case they would come true there was always a denial made if you said something something bad in case it would in case it would come true so uh i don't know we've rambled far from your first question but well you know uh to carry on what you've just been saying there is this tradition in ireland that uh some a poet may come along who'll rhyme you to death yes spencer makes reference to that and the old the old irish barge within the irish speaking dispensation i mean we're talking now about a culture and a language and a tradition which i suppose received its death blow in sixth in the early 17th century with the flight of the earls at the time of the triumph of of english literature at the moment of english definition of spencer shakespeare raleigh all those people were raleigh and spencer were in ireland uh raleigh is a soldier he's one of those one of the poets i admire very much in the english tradition you can feel but you can feel the soldiering in him in the ruthlessness of his writing i think but raleigh massacred people in in munster spencer was there as a civil servant in spencer's book as you know on the present state of ireland is is a recommends genocide basically these people were there as representatives of of renaissance civility and the irish were speaking the irish language they were barbaric in the original sense of that word because the greeks called people barbaric who didn't speak the greek language they made a different noise and the english simply regarded them as barbaric and i mean from from 17th century on that whole irish language system culture shape world picture has been has been systematically systematically first of all by the english eroded but then inevitably in just in an exhausted way eroded by the aries themselves and a lot of the effort i think in the last 100 years in irish writing and in irish politics and imagination has been in some way to to heal as far as possible or to cover over as far as possible or to bring together what was there up to uh late medieval through the medieval times into elizabethan times that tradition died how can we link in english as nato various writers back into that um and i mean there was a lot of a lot of the effort of the gaelic revival that would know more about this than i did well uh don't you feel it in your own choice of using english rather than native irishness to write in that you're participating in this healing process that you were describing well i mean i speak i speak english i spoke english from the cradle english is my mother tongue he ate once made a distinction which is a fine one he said irish is my national language but english is my mother tongue i think you write poetry of all things in your mother tongue but i mean every everybody in ireland with the exception of a few thousand people on the west coast speak english naturally from the cradle now and i think a writer like joyce and a writer like yates prove you know absolutely that there is no abdication from irishness there's no um reneging on on your nativeness to use the english language i mean joyce and joyce's achievement in one way can be regarded as a a postcolonial act of revenge almost upon upon the english language for making making him feel that he was inadequate at it i mean there's that wonderful classical moment in the portrait of the artist where where there's a confusion over the word for a funnel they remember the um the ton dish yes the english the english man calls it the tondish and stephen no no no it's not the englishman it's stephen calls it the tundish and the english jesuit causes the funnel and there's this moment of of prickly prickly condescension you know where uh the englishman says to stephen oh tundish no that's a very interesting word and it must look that word up and stephen says it is um spo it is the word we use in drum condra for the best english has spoken but then he thinks in his head the language we are speaking that is the english language is his before it is mine i cannot speak or write his language without unrest of spirit so you have that expression of linguistic inferiority complex which is to do with history has to do with invasions to do with colonialism all that so stephen expresses that at that point through this wincing over a word but in fact the most important thing comes later in the book when stephen looks up the word tundish which he uses as the inferior colonized word and he says i've looked up the word tundish i find it's english yes and good old english she said why the hell did they come here to teach us their own language and from that moment i mean the whole question of language is obliterated right you began by reading the palm digging i've never dug turf in that way but you make me feel the squelch and slap of soggy pete the kurt cuts of an edge through living roots in your prose you use the phrase the origins of a poet's characteristic music what kinds of things go into a poet's characteristic music how does it well i don't know that's that's something that um for a good while i was very very involved in thinking about that and part it is partly to do with what we've just been speaking of one of the obsessions in in the aries tradition over the last hundred years or so has been to define a note now i think that can become programmatic it can can become propagandistic but it was also clearly an obsession within certain aspects of the american poetic tradition how do we make our sound that is our sound and not the sound of the english inherited poetic line so thinking on those as it were thinking on the question of national traditions was the ice tradition versus english tradition and what's my voice rather than their voice i i came down to a very simple notion that that you had to be faithful to the sounds you made yourself naturally within yourself almost your dialect voice i don't necessarily mean dialect core dialect but your own your own intonation and that it seems to me that poetry is is linked very deeply to the the melodies that lie below uh the common speech of a culture i mean that you draw a line in the british isles from say north northeast england say somewhere up around north of hull maybe northumberland you cut down across scotland and you even well then you've taken most of ireland strength of that line uh grief may be expressed instinctively in one way i don't know what way it is but north of the line is expressed in a grunt that goes something like the illiterate the illiterate self cries out in that rhythm now sort of that lines but different be a different intonation i believe that that poetry has something to do with that first primal sound pattern the message that comes out in in the voice that is way back in the secret of the voice so that's only my own little mythology of the thing when you're writing a yambic pentameter of course you don't know how you're measur how you're fitting that that illiterate music to to the literate line and you shouldn't think too much about it either i think but um definitely i recognize in say an anglo-saxon beat in that thump and grunt of alliteration and stress lines i recognize something more akin to to where i came from and the sounds that i make naturally to the the on the illiterate uh voice that i have than i do in the ambik pentameter although i write the ambiguity a lot myself you've spoken about uh you've thought of your poem sometimes as having irish vowels and english consonants that hopefully the poem would be the the integrated experience well you see all everything that in a sense i was writing in those essays those come from about the early seventies and they're go back to greg's first question about irish english um catholic protestant unionist nationalist um i mean those dualities um i i i really want to marry them in a way that they don't matter anymore they aren't a problem but that's that's impossible to do that but i go into the habit of of thinking in in two you know there's this teleport i mean i know the english tradition and there's another part of me that that is out of um out of some place completely different so that's that's why as you see the vowels and the consonants and to me the consonants are more dominant you know they're kind of military kind of presence in the word and the vowel is the kind of shrinking secret center the consonants of the blackened hands then that's right sloped arms of consonants i'd like to take you back to the concern with yourself as an irish poet and with irish writers in this century as you know we've your nation has produced a disproportionately large number of great writers you're still a nation of four million or so i think and uh yet you produced men who are are monuments in our literature how do you explain that uh phenomenon so many writers from a small country well i don't know how to explain it i mean to go there there are writers out of also out of two different traditions i suppose joyce you see is the first native irish gael catholic writer from that tradition yates wild shaw taking the just keeping to that uh generation they're from the protestant descendants they that they're very they again were a minority within english culture generally yes they were self-conscious uh there there's the anglo-irish even though within ireland they were the bodies that were the landlords and uh absentee landlords and they sold the way there is part of the active union and this that the other but nevertheless they had a very conscious sense of themselves and they dramatized themselves as representatives of a tradition that was slightly more rickish and uh not english so so there was within within the culture that produced them self-dramatizing and um it wasn't contemptuous but it was a slight superiority and at the same time inferiority to the english center so i think maybe shaw and wilde see what it really is there to show off i mean wilde is a master of of winning the game and he goes he goes to england and then i mean he wins by by words by speech shaw also wins there's something there's something about punishing the english in both of those writers you know i mean that's overstating it but but sean wilde negotiated with the english culture on its own terms and play for it to play play it down against itself joyce is completely different i mean joyce really refuses it if you read joyce's letters there's what's very thrilling there's a kind of intellectual disdain you know for for the whole uh for the whole contemporary english writing you know he's writing to stanislaus this is a fellow of 17 18 19 saying good god george meredith you know he's a writer they're terrible they can't write anything of dante and he's as he said himself in the portrait he's he's working out an aesthetic in terms of the monkish inheritance that he has with dante and aquinas and aristotle and so on but he is he is working an alternative system i mean the protestant humanist liberal english tradition he refuses it and starts from from his own nature and his own as the english would see a deprived situation catholic you know medieval but he he never relents and he through force of genius i mean uh he why did come about and joyce i mean there is there's just that quality of genius but but there's also the neediness the whole of the unexpressed world the sub-world of of the it was in the head of the irish irish catholic soul i mean choice really opened it i did so much it's almost impossible now to to write anything new you know he covered like a fast factory ship moving over you know the whole bottom of the of their iseki and just sucking it all up you know anybody comes along though is really looking for a little maybe [Laughter] that's a great image but also i mean the i was saying the post colony i think the finnegan's wake is finally an act of vengeance upon the man who said funnel you know it just takes makes the english language self-conscious it says uh there's there's the whole indo-european scene boys that you've forgotten you know and there's there's a linguistic uh punishment being meted out to to the standard english almost in that this is very metaphorical way of talking about joyce but i think if there's something in it you know resentment of some kind of work well essentially much of this has some kind of political cast to it it seems to me and but one is always hearing uh negative things about uh political poetry in quotes but i don't see how it's possible to be apolitical about anything of this sort i was looking at some of your poems about the some of the uh unfortunate occurrences in ulster and um you uh the the poet tries apparently to stand back a little bit from it but one is uh struck as the point moves on that you can't really divorce yourself from it yeah all together now would you comment on that well i love there's a there's a quotation which i've been reaching for like a life belt when i'm in situations like this it comes from this polish board whom we mentioned last night yeah chase left milosh who has gone through it all you know he was in he was native of lithuania and and then it was kind of sucked up and exhausted and then he went to germany you know he was in warsaw in the 30s he was involved in marxism he saw the nazi invasion he survived the war he became a member of the well i'm not sure he ever became a member of the party but he ended up working as a first secretary in washington for the people's republic of poland after the war but he was exposed to the 20th century desolations he was also exposed to ideological choice and he was also constantly through all this lyric poet with all the uncertainties so he has written a couple of autobiographies intellectual autobiographies but the phrase that sums up that strikes me as a recognition in him he says describing one point in his career he said i was i was caught between the contemplation of a motionless point and the command to participate actively in history i think every artist feels that at certain times that the pure serene which really is the function of the artist to contemplate the motionless point there are moments in history when that seems like an affront to human life or human suffering around you and what did you do during the last war daddy you know i wrote you lisa's choices uh joyce happens to be to be improved right i mean that is a great political book but of course i was brought up with an aesthetic uh well i brought up with it was putting it too strongly but at university in the 50s in in northern ireland which was essentially a british university the orthodoxy which suppose in some ways is still the orthodoxy is that committed writing writing with a message is necessarily disabled and propagandist and and without possible force and i i mean i accept that on the other hand i mean having i think that there is nothing nothing wrong with anger and resentment as a motive i think there's a confusion between writing which has a message which is a message coming from somewhere else and the wound that a writer might bear within herself or himself coming out of a situation and expressing that wound in some way artistically i think anger political anger is all right in writing as long as you're sure it's your own anger you know as long as it belongs inwardly to you in the first places of your feeling uh how you how you express that is another thing i mean it isn't necessary to express anger through through uh invective or scolding i mean it can come out indirectly it can come out as a as a an intonation or as a cunning or something subject matter content theme these things that seem to be overt are terribly important but in the end as you've said a couple of times last night art in some way does seem to be about itself and it's about uh it's about the human heart and conflict with itself as faulkner said and it's the music that subsumes these other things finally isn't it well i think that's beautifully said and that is true and and of course what we try to do is to subvert the orthodoxies i mean there are several orthodoxies and i think you shouldn't be writing this kind of poem and that's the kind of problem that so for some previous reason you want to have a go at i mean um i i have written this long heavy thumping narrative thing about the pilgrimage locked out pilgrimage i read a piece out of it last night about the man who comes and tells the story uh and you know people say to me this isn't you you know you're very good at rich vol sounds this is so this is um not you and in some ways that perversity you want you want to be able to do things that aren't you you want to do it more there is a there is a problem also i think with subject matter and with themes which which you have discovered and you recognize to be the proper ones for yourself then if you continue within the garden which you have plucked out of the wilderness you begin gardening your own patch in it and it's no longer pioneering it's something there's something maybe um perfect about it but it's you can perfect certain things within the themes that you have established but there's some kind of excitement and larger work stops happening then well you know all the these problems are just built but the the question of subject subject matter is an unfashionable word nowadays i mean but i think it's one of the it's one of the great um one of the great gifts of an artist to know what what's the right subject you know i mean when the boys were going to approach their epics you know milton or what's the right subject there's going to be arthur's going to be heaven or is going to be whatever the right subject draws it out of you well you seem to have your subject matter seems to have begun in the earth i noticed that very much especially about the early poetry door into the dark full of these rich earthy images of land sea sky swamp fog and the like well that was partly through reading and partly just through an inevitability i mean i just was that's all the experience i had really the experience that was most generative in me and regenerative to go back to was that childhood uh world but uh there was that kind of don a given uh quality of your life which nobody can do much about that's it but then there's the kind of there are the the things which enable that to come out or can make it signify and that's usually other writers that you read and the fact of the matter was when i started to write i mean i've read patrick kavanagh there's also an irish port of tremendous influence and significance who comes out of the kind of hidden life that i came out of and expressed it in the great hunger and reading patrick kevin to me wasn't like reading a book you know i wasn't putting on my my good clothes and putting on my good manners and sitting down and reading a book i read this book i was reading my life and this was that kind of a new excitement and at the same time i came across some poems by ted hughes in the early 60s which again seemed to me to to delve into a secret that i thought only i knew about i mean i i didn't realize that anybody living in england shall we say knew about pigs that had been cut up and pegged apart and stripped and that anybody could use language with such relish anymore another thing that i had accepted and you know properly in my literary education was that alienation irony disenchantment post-westland all that that was modern poetry and i mean i felt archaic with my liking for rich sounds and hopkins and there was some kind of permission given i think that's what a writer really needs to some extent the permission to go ahead with your own thing and reading as i say hughes and kevin and other sports like john montague um and scottish but like norman mckeig and then amplifying that into frost and seeing different exemplars the permission was given to go ahead with your own subject matter and so i ended up bogging into that country you've said it at some point that you came to yates lathe that you read some of the early poems but that it wasn't until you had established your own style that uh you read yates more seriously well in the sense that you read the later things well that's absolutely true i don't think gates had anything to do with my noises you know he wasn't an influence on the genesis of of the sound of my writing it couldn't have been for some reason there's just something in his music that isn't i mean i admire it i mean it's a wonderful ringing classic bear music but but it's a certain tactical and so athletic i mean the kind of musics that that assisted me were more more brooding i mean there were more in terms of rock formation to be sedimentary kind of sounds or as he ate as much i think more igneous you know it's kind of hard but but i when i went to to live in wick lonely i was i resigned the job in university in belfast in 72 trying to commit myself as a writer and i used that phrase i didn't quite know what i wanted to do but i knew i wanted to find out what it was to to to be to expose yourself to your own inadequacies and your own challenge to be a part at that time i began reading yates in particular with a certain avidity you know eagerness to see how he conducted himself how he negotiated the world and um i mean it's just awesome i mean you you learn that in order to act like yes you have to be it you have to have all that energy all that intelligence all that stamina not only to write poetry but to to write plays to move people along he had a vision of of how things should be in the society and he had a vision of how things were in the metaphysical or in the spirit life and he had a vision of what he might try to do uh with with a dramatic society and he had what he wanted to do with his plays he could deal with public men he could cut yes was very skillful i mean he would say in times like these we have no gift to set a statesman right and we have little pawn on being asked for warp during the 1914-18 war it's often quoted as as a prom as a corroboration of this opinion that writers should have nothing to do with public causes you know but my god if you look at yet yeah that's absolutely full of monumental statements about public things yeah what he was saying is dennis donahue points it out right we have no gift to talk to an english state's parliament but we'll talk to a loan credit right instructions you know no i was reading richard allman on yates the other day and he says that yates is always at pains to tell the literal unmasked truth about himself that even when he's wearing masks he lets you know on the other hand whitman makes believe he's telling you everything about himself but he's hiding a great deal how about hini what is your sense of your own poetry is there a lot of is there a lot of secret underneath and uh or are you pretty much open in a literal way i think i'm open but of course that's that's that could be self-deceptive yeah i mean i i i have thought of the poetry i've been writing on and off for the last few years as a kind of uh self-rebuke in public you know saying this is what i'm like and this is what the whole bloody place is like you know and that's the only public service i can do is show my own meanness and weakness but of course that that may be utterly self-deceptive business when you say that i and i'd like to hear you read another poem when you say that i think of your palm punishment in which you talk about yourself i wonder if you'd talk about that poem a little bit maybe and read it and there are those lines in it in which you said that you would have been awfully weak yes that's fact that's right behind this poem to some extent there are christ words to the people around the woman taken in adultery where he says he who is without sin among you let him cast the first stone no stones are thrown um and the the subject the the direct subject of this poem called punishment is well there are two images in it the subject is is about um what guilt i suppose the the the girl dressed in the opening statements towards the end that the focus of the poem on to the end is is um she's from the iron age and she was found naked and buried under stones and it would seem that she was an unfaithful young wife she was punished with these reds that were cast across her but i link her up as a as a betrayer with the girls who are tired and feathered in derry in the and in belfast in the ghettos and berry in belfast and i had really ambivalent feelings i thought that was terrible of course a violation of the girls but some some you know unregenerate tribal part of me felt or couldn't dissociate myself from the thought that they shouldn't have been out with those british soldiers anyway um i mean i'm not saying that that i felt it was right to turn fair them but deep down i had twisted feelings about the whole thing and i felt at that time and i felt since other occasions i felt that perhaps as a writer i should have made some public statement i didn't make any public statement i just chased my own worries and recognitions around the room of my own head and sat tongue-tied and this is a rebuke to myself really for all that i can feel the tug of the halter at the nape of her neck the wind on her naked front it blows her nipples to amber beads it shakes the frail rigging of her ribs i can see her drowned body in the bog the weighing stone the floating rods and bows under which at first she was a barked sapling that is dug up oak bone brain ferkin her shaved head like a stubble of black corn her blindfold a soiled bandage her nose a ring to store the memories of love little adulterous before they punished you you are flax and haired undernourished and your tar black face was beautiful my poor scapegoat i almost love you but would have cast i know the stones of silence i am the artful voyar of your brain's exposed and darkened combs your muscles webbing and all your numbered bones i have stood dumb when you were betraying sisters called in tar wept by the railings who would connive in civilized outrage yet understand the exact and tribal intimate revenge well that uh beautiful poem punishment can be found in this uh poems 1965 1975. if anyone cares to look it up but i like the way you bring together the two elements there the modern and the and the ancient which is what i think most of your poetry does anyway i would hope so yes there's another poem and i can't remember the title at the moment it may be exposure in which you use the imagery of of uh sparks and your fear that in blowing up these sparks that you may have missed the the comet yes that's that's on the that's around about the same time it's a kind of self-worrying point it's about as set at the time when we moved to wicklow which was leaving the north of ireland now i i didn't leave the north island because of fear of the violence or anything i mean we lived in belfast quite casually and normally through all that bombs and explosions and one thing are checkpoints everybody was together than that it wasn't that it was a sensitive soul winston out of the intolerable i ended up in weekly on a personal uh quest for what it was to be a writer it was an inner compass i was following but naturally being there wicklow is 100 miles 120 130 miles i was from belfast a lot of people felt that i had let them down by leaving in a situation like that people require solidarity there's a kind of pride in being at the deprived center you know and if you leave it looks as if you've reneged on the deprivation and that you have become affected and want to be yourself you know which is a kind of a sin in certain situations uh uh also there are two different uh two different attitudes in belfast the a lot of my friends were from the unionist imagination if you like michael longley james simmons various other people who had a kind of an investment in making it seem that belfast and the north was just being disrupted a little but there was nothing really changing everything was the same now for the nationalist country imagination to go back to the beginning there was something slightly apocalyptic at that moment history might begin you know at that moment um certainly some big change that would initiate a new era might be possible for the union as protestant imagination it was only an irritant it was to be stopped and things would come back to normal i mean history has been established uh time is set up um the world is ratified for the union's imagination in the north uh for the the time has not come yet for the nationalist imagination ireland isn't united someday it will start at a deep level you know at the level of structure of thinking and feeling uh the catholics myself included felt there was was crisis there and i was living down in a weeklo i and i was away from the action some part of me knew that was perfectly all right that you know you leave you leave and you know more about where you left you know you're really at the center the further away from it you move yourself um now the the that poem was about again a search for certainty there was the comet equaled the big flash of history of the north and there it was in wicklow with these little sparks of poems may i say that i think that what you did when you went to uh wicklow was join uh your other uh uh poets in in a sort of exile from your homeland the way so many irish boats have done historically so in a sense you're fitting yourself into the tradition just the same even if you left well that's right in fact i use the phrase inner emigre in that problem an idea of of exile in it a wood current a wood kern a sweeney type really yeah would you talk about your uh sweeney poem the the sweeney uh material actually when i went to victor i was living among trees and bushes and some kind of primitive rejoicing occurred in me again looking at a window at eye level with buds in the month of may and you know some some just pure delight was there this little irish poem with in which central figure is a wild man of the woods came back to me and i thought he could house a lot of my delight in these things in 1984 in ireland it may seem an odd destiny to be sitting praising birds uh with when people are bombing but maybe sweeney could praise both so i in a sense i used the translation of sweeney as as a vehicle that could use some of the pleasures and some of the images and some of the uh nurture of living in in the country in wicklow so um i mean my favorite uh section of it is the the section and praise of the trees which i was mentioning last night which um uh came partly from living in in the country in wicklow but also from the areas itself could you give us a little more of the actual background of sweeney and what it means to the irish so well it it doesn't uh sweeney is uh it's from a manuscript called bola the madness or the spasm of sweeney it's set in the 7th century and some of the events are historical events around which the story occurs the battle of moira in 637 is is a battle at which this king sweeney appears and at the battle he misbehaves himself and he is cursed by a saint saint ronan he has already been cursed by ronan once before because the story begins dramatically and arbitrarily sweeney hears the ringing of the bell of the saint he says who's that what's that they say it's ronan the saint he's marking out a church in your land he said sweeney was suddenly angered and went to hit went to go for the cleric his wife tried to restrain him she held his cloak but the cloak fastener broke sweeney got away and landed naked with the carrick and began to attack him so there's a kind of primitive connection with the the old christian versus the old celtic energies and uh from that from that only sweeney is cursed cursed and then turned into a kind of feathered creature living in the trees well that's a beautiful account and i want to thank you very much for being the guest of the writer's forum sheamus haney and thank you orlando soul and william han thank you this exclusive brockport writers forum program was recorded on videotape on january 26 1984 as part of the writers forum a department of english presentation state university of new york college at brockport this has been a production of the educational communication center state university of new york college at brockport

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