An Interview with Multi-Award Winning Novelist and Prophetic Minister John L. Moore

hello everyone uh paul keith and amy davis here with a very special interview today with a good friend of mine i've known for over 20 years john l moore uh welcome john hey guys i'm glad you could join us today john is a um a very respected novelist he just published his recent novel called blue man we're going to talk about that in a moment um john is a prophetic minister he's won multiple awards for not only his novels but for other writings journals newspapers and such as that just very qualified but he's also very insightful john is probably one of the smartest guys i know and so i've always enjoyed you know talking to john and on a variety of subjects and so we thought it'd be great if we could just spend maybe 45 minutes or so talking john about his novel but also about other uh relevant prophetic issues that are going on in the body of christ right now so anyway amy you want to start us out with something i'm so excited to have john he just sort of paul keith just sort of threw me in here i'm excited to have john john was so helpful for me in you know teaching me and helping me to write as well and i'm excited to just have this conversation this is the first you know real conversation am i get to have with him and i really am just excited john to hear um when i read when i read blue man um i could there were so many things about um church culture and this is the book this is actually the book he sent me i had already gotten a book and i was so excited to read it in alabama i got all the way to alabama and then realized i had left my book but the lord had showed john that he needed to send me a copy this was waiting for me in alabama and it was perfect timing um just how he addresses spiritual warfare and the church culture in this fictional novel it is just remarkable and i was really excited it was really helpful for me in my own in the spiritual warfare i was in at the time um you go ahead you had some things you were going to share about how you there was a prophetic word that you were given about blue man and that was time to write it do you want to share about that well i started blue man in 2015. my i finished my novel looking for lynn in 2014 took about a year off and started this one and i had a basic idea with what to do with ezra because this is the fifth in the ezra series and it depends it really depended on who was in the white house so i began the novel thinking it was going to be hillary and i was all geared up you know for this type of warfare wow and then i'm surprised all right and so now i'm kind of spun around in directions and i i start approaching the novel again you can get hit when you begin a a novel uh even though i've been writing since i professionally since i was 17. but doubts you know just discouragements distractions everything start to hit you and i i got pretty far into it and then the next election is coming and i thought well i better just stop all right and see what happens now because so much centers about who's in the white house is so much of the theme well about october a dear friend of ours in alabama sent me a very specific prophetic word and i hope later to mention about the importance of words of knowledge words of wisdom uh in the body today we need them more than some of their instructions we're going you know i agree [Music] anyway this is the this is the word and it was very pointed it said uh she says i saw a blue sky in the distance the sky was above you and you were riding a horse of course and i heard your name john l moore now that's significant because when you actually hear now this case she heard mine but when you hear the lord call your name it happened to me at the toronto airport vineyard outpouring and it was during a break and i was sitting there with friends or i was standing up and i heard my name clear the bell and i looked around and i turned to my friends and said you know did you call me no right here you know and i i actually heard john l moore yeah you know formally as my not my pen name but you know my official name so when you actually hear the name and she heard that and then she was told the lord said to her i have whispered his name and then she heard me slow down like i'm trying to hear this whisper and then she asks the lord uh why are you calling his name what does this mean now get how a good prophetic word can be so pointed not generic where you can read anything into it right as i heard i want him to get his book done it has significance to the readers that's right you know and it goes on from there but when you get a pointed word like that and you feel the anointing i've been in the prophetic since i was baptized in the holy spirit in 1975 i mean i was just dramatic dramatic in the holy spirit and then instantly you know in the prophetic and so you learn to kind of feel a word and it doesn't you know a mixture doesn't feel you know pure you know and i thought wow this is a direct commandment to get to work so about the first of the year i was still ranching you know daily but about the first year i had a dream one night that was uh in this you know it was a spiritual dream and i saw i was being driven through a community in a luxury car and i don't know who was driving i was in the passenger seat and as i looked out the windows everybody everybody was just jubilantly and freely praising god i mean it was just beyond anything you've ever seen anywhere and i thought well that's a good sign and i launched myself into finishing the book i worked from five to six hours a day seven days a week for the next three and a half months in that whole that whole time period wow that just ground it out so that's kind of how it came into being and through a lot of it now i wrote blue man a little differently because of what you were mentioning earlier and that is that people's attention i'm a span writer i can write dense books you know pretty wordy type of books if i want to but people don't read those anymore and i've always looked down a little bit on the action thriller you know type because for me as a former sports writer hopefully that's easy i could not pose out all day but a key to a good book is characterization yeah good strong characters that are real and you like them and you believed in them and you're interested in them and so but i did you'll in this book write shorter sentences and shorter paragraphs and that is specific that's one of the things i loved about blue man was the development of the characters throughout the book it was like i was excited to get to know each character a little bit more and as the book went on i really was able to understand the characters more and just really relate them to people that i know in my life you know and things and struggles maybe they had gone through or go through so i love that that made it very easy and enjoyable to read that's for sure you know without giving away too much of the book um i don't know how much of this you want to discuss john you know because people i'm hoping will get it but uh not only is it really well written it's it's fascinating and it's got a christian theme maybe i can put that with a faith based book you know john mentioned uh who was the president well maybe i'm not giving away too much but you have a character in in there that's like a daniel that interprets dreams with the president that's not giving away too much i don't think it's a pretty fascinating platform to build from and uh and so throughout that is his struggles and his you know the conflicts and all the things that arise out of that that uh that make it a fascinating i i believe every christian should get it you know not just because it's a faith-based book but because it's well written um anything else you want to say about it that would help okay go ahead i have a question for you okay well i have a question for ezra riley apparently um my question is one of the things that i appreciated um there's about blue man was that i really um understood this uh warfare that ezra riley was in throughout the book there was a massive spiritual warfare and one of the things that i appreciated about his character was this this uh trying to constantly just walk that line of righteousness by faith there was a truly a righteousness we've been talking about um the importance of righteousness and warfare with our group of people that we're connected with and at our table meetings and we've been talking about what produces righteousness and what does not so when i read this this that part really grabbed a hold of me that righteousness really um was um an effective way of warfare in itself um just that walk of faith can you just um maybe talk about the importance of righteousness and spiritual warfare maybe um how you painted that picture in the book whatever however you want to talk about it sure this is what ezra says okay ezra o'reilly is the dream interpreter in this case and i actually use dream interpretation as kind of a lower level spiritual gift be honest uh because i thought if i went too you know out there and i'll just be too much for some people i believe i've been interpreting dreams for decades but i believe you need the holy spirit to do it you know i've never written a book on dream interpretation i never will no and uh good ones and i know there's some out there i don't think so much of the one the first good one i read was actually written by a southern baptist and that was decades ago decades ago and uh ezra is called you know he's surprised by this situation and he knows that he's been living a cowboy life and he's pursuing his wild cow in the hills which uh one reviewer friend of mine likened that the moby dick doing a great white whale but he knows i mean he's just kind of ambushed and put on a jet and said we're going to the white house and he knows that he's not prayed up for this you know he's not ready for this and he he ezra is very real person uh you know he's kind of gritty he's kind of stubborn uh but there's a thin line between stubborn and determined all right and so he's he's just caught off guard and he's just what he doesn't want to do because he understands the importance of all this is he doesn't want to make a mistake you know he he wants to be right now that to me is where the righteousness that you're talking about comes in we can do all kinds of things trying to be righteous exactly exactly religious we're just going to pump up our ego exactly cause us to stumble you know we're going to presume something yeah is presuming nothing here that's right he thinks man you know it's because true spiritual warfare well for one thing it changes right we can't think we have a formula to anything in the kingdom anything and warfare changes and once you think you you got a handle on it well forget it because something's gonna switch here but what ezra understands in that righteousness is that he simply wants to be correct and he says something to the effect that he doesn't want to you know fail his his lord essentially uh and and so he purposely you know ezra is a little bit of a hermit and i i don't know where that comes from [Laughter] he doesn't want to be a christian celebrity right so he does about everything in his pop you know power to not and yet yet when he's called upon in the days of his power his people are volunteers all right so when edgar reilly is called upon he he knows it's destiny the other thing is if you read all the other ezra novels you know he's lived a pretty difficult life and he knows when this jet arrives that all of his life like queen esther only he's [Music] decades of hardship yeah what time is this yeah yeah well awesome you know um you know i don't give away too much of the book but i want to kind of still build off of the book a little bit but but also make a point um in 1992 john i i think i mentioned this to you in a email or something recently but in 1992 i woke up one morning the moment my eyes opened i heard an audible voice you know i heard an external audible voice to me so i don't know what that would translate into and the voice said and the sons of god must leave their mark on art and literature and i have believed that from the until now and you know clearly what you're writing you know there's something about you know the mature sons of god today and the access that's going to be given to the mature sons um and this kind of goes hand-in-hand i don't want to talk too much about my stuff but i want to i want to pick your brain a little bit but i have this experience on books of destiny i know you helped me with that as well um where i went into the treasury room of heaven and i saw books in heaven that have not yet been released on the earth and i saw blueprints for buildings that haven't been built and even paintings and shortly after that you know is when this akiana the hardest young girl we met her and she basically was experiencing what i saw so my point is that the sons of god are going to not only receive revelation that is coming directly from the unseen realm but it's going to be articulated in a way that has excellence we're lacking excellence right now would you agree i mean i know the answer to that because let me just add this one other thing you know in 2000 john called me and told me that the lord told him to help me become a better writer which was was amazing spent hours and hours on the phone with me teaching me some fundamentals of writing which was a huge blessing because i needed it i'm not saying i'm there but i'm certainly a lot further now than i would have been if john did not so we got a lot of people writing some books maybe even some good revelation but it's not very readable you want to address this topic a little bit concerning the mature signs wow that's loaded do you remember francis schaefer the great of course oh yeah the referendum you know you know a great man of god uh well written and he had a son frankie and frankie was maybe a little bit of a rogue in some ways about maybe ahead of this time and he was a probably a literary novelist which i am uh in that sense meaning that you want to write classic work that's artistic and isn't thrown away you know i don't like disposable books you know if you buy one of my novels you're going to want to keep it okay it's my philosophy and frankie was he wrote a book that the title just sticks with me i don't think i've even kept the book but in his frustration with trying to see the literary world elevated in christendom he wrote a book called addicted to mediocrity and that really has been where fiction has been for some time wow right uh i i pray that there are writers out there that will do this in my lifetime what you're seeing what you're sensing uh turning out you know really profound impactful work not just popular we we put way too much emphasis now on success well what is at book sales you know we look at numbers you know david got punished for you know taking defenses and yet we're taking a census all the time well i'm valuable because publish written so many but well you have a church of 5 000 and you're making everybody buy 10. right you know i'm quitting there but yet i'm not kidding because there's nothing better than that you know right i read an article that i saved from world magazine that's about 20 years old i'm quoted in it actually and uh it brought up that the christian publishing was known for being more dishonest than the republicans their point was that christians are uh told in the new testament not to sue one another so publishers and agents and and everybody thought they could get away with more because they wouldn't get sued now i don't know if i agree that that's the reason i think it's more incompetence you know it's just now that's professional in a secular world but let me take you back to 1984. i was already by 1984 i already had 14 years experience as a writer you know i started at age 17 in 1970 working in the daily newspaper as a reporter so by 1984 i was an experienced writer i'd self-published two books already my wife and i are in a movie theater in billings montana watching the movie cross creek which was based on the life of the novelist uh virginia king and marjory keenan rawlings and in this book or in this movie the great editor maxwell perkins comes to visit her in her home in florida in the swamps of florida and she's been sending him all these gothic type manuscripts and he's rejecting it now this is the greatest editor of the 20th century all right he added to hemingway john dos paso's thomas wolfe uh fitzgerald you know you know all the great great writers of the 20th century were edited by by maxwell perkins and he makes a personal visit to this woman surprises her and he returns all these manuscripts and he says you know these are junk quit sending them to me then he brings out all these personal letters that she has sent him and he says but these are great write about this write what you know when that actor uh mcdowell spoke those words as maxwell perkins the holy spirit came on me so strong in that movie theater that my head dropped down into my lap with my arms and my tongue started pouring like a river out of it yeah you got a small cracker jack box you know cindy seven type movie theater i'm trying to keep it quiet tremendous anointing that i am to write what i know well i'd already had a vision in high school long before i came to the lord a quick vision that told me that i would and later that summer where i'm gathering cattle early because of a drought like we're having this year and i'm riding a horse i can go i know about remember the horse i was on i remember the hill and at that at one point not thinking about the book at all i heard a clear voice in my chest that wasn't my voice and all it said was the breaking of ezra riley i hate myself being a journalist i gave myself a deadline i said two years and i'll write this book okay i did uh turn out a short novella in two years and i sent it off to new york houses to be published big big name secular houses very best in the world and i got like 30 rejections when every and almost everybody said man your stuff is you right but it just doesn't fit our needs all right well because i did all my books have a christian theme because i'm a group you know richie stuff you know they all have a christian theme and and i think the breaking of israel riley yeah well let me go back after 30 rejections i started to develop a reject spirit of rejection and i recognized it so i prayed and fasted and while i'm praying and fasting i've been published in the reader's digest and a woman walked into the office of gary allen sledge the editor at reader's digest in pleasantville new york and as she was leaving his office he stopped her and says oh wait you need to publish this and handed him my kind of self-published manuscript for the breaking of ezra riley well she was starting uh the united states office for lion uk uh lion publishers in great britain and uh she called me and she said you know she explained to me what happened she says uh i uh want to publish your book but i want you to make it longer and i can't offer you much of an advance and i said okay i'll do it and i already know the advance you're going through and you know oh yeah you know sure you know sure you do you know what how much is you know i said five thousand and she's you know you're right yeah but i had to double that book in length and i did that in an unheated bunk house on a k pro computer what a k pro was because that's before ms does a floppy desk a little screen and a space heater blowing on my feet to keep me from freezing and i i published it lion uk uh reliefed it at one critic's choice award from christianity today and then it it was first runner-up for a gold and spur award from the western writers of america i'm told it placed first on two of three ballots all right i i suspect you know one judge didn't like that there was kind of a symbolic christian ending to it i don't know but in whatever case it had quite an impact and yet it was a literary book published by a christian house and was republished by the largest christian house in in the world and they didn't necessarily know how to reach the christian market with something that was literary because for a long time christian fiction has been pretty much escapist and it still largely is so if you go back now in your head in time and say all right great christian writing well you know really you go back to john bunyan and pilgrim's progress for some of the kind of uh impact that paul keith is you know visualizing it you know something that comes in and goes wham yeah its ministers are preaching from all right revivalist but even great writers 100 years later 150 years later are quoting pilgrims progress but then even on a natural sense uh that kind of novel like uncle tom's cabin and it comes in and just shakes the nation to where when harriet beecher's stow i believe when abraham lincoln met her at the height of the civil war he says so you're the little lady that started this great war all right that type of impact and then you move to to kill a mockingbird and it's you know remarkable simple but beautiful it's for real now where is the christian novel in all of it yeah yeah you have a few you have flannery o'connor you have uh various ones writing out of a maybe a catholic tradition an episcopal tradition but there's a religious tradition coming out of it which is good in the sense that we need we stand on history and tradition that then brings us to charismatics right we have no history we have no tradition you know we we actually for a lot well the first christian writers conference i went to was in 1977 1978 an editor at the great falls tribune where i was working handed me a brochure for it i drove to portland i come into the hotel lobby where the young you know writers are meeting they are discussing whether it's moral for a christian to write fiction oh my goodness unbelievable all right that's how far you know we have kind of count that's what we're trying to break free from now well the biggest impact on charismatic you know writing was frank paredes this present darkness 1986. about the time i enter the market i'm just a couple years after that basically and it had a significant impact huge impact sold three million copies was not considered a piece of you know a work of literature even frank peretti you know acknowledged that not because he's an oral tradition storyteller he wants to go oh you know well you know in front of a hundred kids around a campfire yeah gift performance okay but here's the key that most people don't think about when they talk about if the book is successful what is the purpose of a novel right what is purpose now we can look at popularity we can look at power we can look at uh professionalism and everything but purpose yeah this present darkness opened the door for john dawson that was the purpose without this present darkness john dawson joy dawson and others who wanted to write about spiritual warfare and taking our cities for god would have met a massive roadblock fiction causes you to relax die down writing the better it is you just relax yeah it's talking to you and teaching you well yeah yeah one thing that you mentioned a minute ago you were talking about how um you know write what you know um write what has been revealed to you right what you have seen and journeyed and one of the things we talk about often is to um to be known by god and to know god and there's this relationship and there's something that happens i've had this experience many times where when love is revealed it's like a light turns on love is eternal and the lord is revealing a pieces of love to us it's a revelation that we journey getting to know god is a revelation that we journey and you write you know what you know um and you talk about what you know when we prophesy based off the fact that we know god that we know his heart we know what he's saying we know love we've had it revealed to us i love that ephesians 3 where it says that we will experience lengths and widths and depths and heights of love it's literally revealed to us it's um we get to understand it and understand his heart and when we when we're um we talk about prophetic we talk about um people prophesying and how that is necessary more than ever now but not just to say words to actually speak what we know from the heart of god in the same way i feel like it just relates so much to when you're saying no i need to write what i know well when we really begin to prophesy now i'm kind of switching gears here when we really prophesy to people we prophesy what we know from god what we've heard and that is absolutely missing i'm telling you we get a lot of words in there come from a good place and somebody's trying to say nice things and sometimes you read a dream you hear a word you receive a message you see a a sign from the lord that just knocks you off your chair knocks you down to your face makes you drops you to the ground and it always will increase the reverential fear um that we have of the lord there will always be an increase of reverence can you talk a little bit about the um just the the world right the prophetic world and in the church right now about prophecy um talk a little bit about that where you see it where you see it going where you see the mistakes however you want to address it realize this is an old cowboy in the badlands of montana a very diminutive voice crying in the wilderness i but i have no problem saying my opinion on this and people can you know take it you know for that and if it speaks to you that's fine right now in the prophetic community in america we are obsessed with foretelling and we have sport telling ah and it has become dangerous in my viewpoint totally agree terms competitive all right when you allow that spirit of competition whether you realize it or not i'm not saying anybody's purpose they're just competitive but i've faced a lot of competition you know as a writer from uh christians who even at conferences made from the podium made little jabs at me and saying well you know i'm not as prolific as john because you know there's that ending that's you know be there and there's no reason to be jealous of anybody we're envious of anybody because we're all ourselves and and people pay a great price for whatever it is they do attain you know and if you're not willing to pay that price then don't think you're going to get it for free you know it's just been easy decades before you know coming to bluemail all right decades but right now with to me it looks like the body of christ and the prophetic world and those looking to the prophetic world right now are simply fearful and they they simply want to be painted a scenario that they can believe in and put their faith we can't do that all right we have to keep i you know in this drought that we're in as a cattle rancher i have to live day by day i have hope all right but you know mostly mostly because i'm old and wives i've survived other droughts and this might be the worst one but i've survived them so my faith you know i have a faith that the lord will see me through uh but there's this obsession i think with foretelling well i believe in foretelling and i've been used in it but the real value that we're missing right now is the life-changing impact that's real company of profits thousands of them speaking powerful little loving words of knowledge and working with them into life christian and non-christian i have had my life impacted at a prophetic conference and as it was in paul keith might have been there actually and as um people were putting stuff away the conference was over uh and the this group had actually used borrowed somebody else's you know uh church and stuff was being put away and and there's other members of the chur other church had come in to set up for the next morning for sunday morning and a 16 year old girl i'm guessing who was had not attended the conference walked across the room she's busy stacking chairs and doing she walks across the room to me and i'm a speaker here she probably doesn't even know it all right and she walks up to me and she says the lord wants to wants you to know you have a father's heart well it just melted me my way i was brought up by a a good man but a man who did not know how to parent he just went clueless and uh pretty rough you know you read the breaking of ezra riley it's all based on my life all my ezra raleigh novels including blue man where you have you know supernatural encounters angelic encounters and i'm you know i fictionalized them a little but they sound true because they happened yeah exactly but the lord's never released me to write a book about all my supernatural experiences he's never released me to do it now he may but the key is can i do it factually without any promotion in it right without any self-promotion this is me look what i did you know something that'll elevate my status but but getting back to your question amy i don't think there's anything more powerful than a a word spoken into one person's heart that changes their lives yeah breaking of ezra riley i know it's changed people's lives i i know two first-born sons that are named ezra because of the impact of that book wow but compare that to say well you never pulled a million copies i have two years out there somewhere all right so it's impacting lives that has to be the value now i do like i say i think the body of christ looking at the prophetic community wanting cancers right now about the future is dangerous and it's not necessary now if it's going to come it's going to come organically it's going to come rapidly they're going to come through somebody who's not trying to get yeah or yell at work yeah all right so that's where well i'm largely you know in the hills you know i'm not traveling i haven't traveled much for years i haven't spoken at a conference for a long time uh i haven't spoken in a church for two years but what the lord's speaking to me a couple of things now paul keith knows maybe 10 years ago i told i told you paul keith that the lord had removed me from a lot of prophetic ministry because he had given me one word and that was the wedding banquet and he talked to me about the wedding banquet between the bride and the bridegroom and he appointedly asked me he says now john if we're studying wedding banquets if my children are studying wedding banquets should they be studying on how to party or should they be studying marriage [Music] and at that point i dedicated myself to my marriage making my wonderful wife believe she was the most gorgeous person on the planet and she's had a hard time receiving that you know she's just raised and she's wired in such a way that compliments have always been difficult for so i just purposed in my heart you know this is what the lord's told me to do that's what i'm going to do and i'm still in that vein if i thought there was a word today for where the prophetic church is it's first kings 13 the old prophet the young prophet and the young prophet goes and he rebukes the sinful king you know the king's hand withers up and i mean this young man is acting in power all right he's got the grace and power of god on him and he's not afraid of politics but the old prophet ambushes him and he addresses him out of a religious spirit and said i do i'm a prophet and i'm an older prophet you need to submit to me and respect your elders all right and he does and of course he ends up being you know killed by the lion now but the lion doesn't eat it the lion guards the body basically all right stands there and guards the body how is christ returning right he's returning as a lion you know he's coming as a man on a horse but we know he's coming you know he came as a lamb but he's coming back as a lion sure so the the test i think for a lot of the young prophets rising up is go ahead and be bold in addressing the political uh evil that is in our country but your test will come from the religious spirit being a prophet in my hometown which is a whole different subject i don't know how many people even know you know someone in the office of the prophet or in you know prophetic gifts you know who lives in operates in their hometown it's just in today's transitory world it's just very unusual well i have had so many encounters where men of god that i respected spiritual fathers oh you've got to listen to that pastor you've got to you know submit to that pastor and of course quench the spirit i believe in submission i believe in godly protocol it all comes from the heart it's not greatest all right yeah it's organic again from the spirit i actually had a spiritual father one time two of them respected nationally known men kind of chewed me out you know saying oh you're too much of an old hippy cowboy too radical you know and i actually had one in prayer one morning get rebuked by the lord and he tracked me down i was a pro at a prophetic conference in south dakota called me in the hotel room and apologized to him good and he said john he says the lord just showed me that man that i'm trying to make you submit to is a higher level not to submit to a hireling all right but i'm not trying to show these a rebellion here no all i'm saying is as the prophetic is always answerable to god you know not to a religious spirit not to another man of god necessarily we're accountable yeah but not necessarily strictly answerable because we're answerable only to the lord and i think i think always when the news starts coming in the old resistant i mean we've known that for years i'm i'm at that age now yeah where i don't want to be resisting it yeah right and i don't want to be jealous of it yeah it seems that people are trying many places people are trying to resurrect the thing that god just burned up and got rid of and they're trying to resurrect something god got rid of we can't resurrect something that god's not to do we have to be there yeah you know that's what gets me i'm old enough now you know i started observing christianity closely about two years before i came to christ and of course i was into everything i wasn't raised in a church home i was you know i became a hardcore hippie and i believed in it i was into all kinds of drugs new age the occult you name it i was everything except a satanist i had too much sense to you know obviously become a satanist i was being deceived you know i had a powerful conversion to the lord i'm not an even more powerful conversion in the baptism in the holy spirit which is the other thing we can't neglect all right we've got to get people through all three feasts we've got to get them through passover and get them saved all right but by golly we need the holy spirit and we can't be mincing words we've got to get people baptized in the holy spirit with the evidence thereof and let him really partake of the feast of of uh of pentecost but then we are transitioning into tabernacles now it's a transition you know it's not going to be the big bang theory all right it's not about him and but we are transitioning into people going into their own little booth without that intercessory priest that the other two feasts required and having that open heaven all right it's a slow transition but we can't be trying to set up roadblocks with the first two yeah you know it seems like john the lord is dealing with the remnant of his people right now if you'll remember in the book of haggai um the bible says the lord stirred up the heart of zerubbabel he stirred up the heart of joshua the high priest and he stirred up the heart of the remnant of his people and i think you're kind of seeing that pattern taking place right now of course you mentioned a moment ago the wedding or the bridal company which i believe is a remnant uh not everybody is making themselves ready right now and you know i want to go back to a point we started down but just to kind of in the next few minutes kind of finalize it but it seems like you mentioned popularity a while ago which i think is a big issue right now people that are well known uh preaching things that we want to be true the only problem is they're unbiblical and i'm seeing that firsthand i mean we're seeing the responses of people i'm i'm thinking of dominionism right now people want to think that we're going to take over society the only problem is the bible doesn't say it that way you know the bible is very clear i think about the end times the lord is going to judge the systems of this world revelation 17 18 19 among many other places and so we have to prophesy in consistency with the word um but we have this you know this conflict i guess you might say between people that are wanting to believe what's popular what's you know more enjoyable is a perspective in response to the reality of what we have to prophesy um i'm of the belief john that right now the lord is releasing plum line prophets you know this is zechariah 4 prophetic community i had this experience in 2008 where i saw a pure white light coming down from heaven it was an open vision and um and i said lord what is that and it struck what looked like was the hub of a wheel and i said lord what is that and the lord said it is my plumbline revelation for they are to produce plumb line profits i believe we're moving into this season where plumb line profits not only are going to be necessary they're mandatory it is essential but it's not going to be popular because you're going to be contradictory to so much of what is popular of what people want to believe you know i love some of the aspects of the seven mountain teaching but i also believe it is ventured over for many of them into dominionism which i feel like the lord told me will be a major battleground for the last day church um and so anyway without going too much into all that i just want to kind of get your your thoughts your comments about that we only got a few more minutes here but um just this issue of the remnant and plumb line prophets and the making ready of a people for the coming of the lord that's to me that is the message of the hour making people ready for the end of the age for the coming of the lord and the age to come you know luke 20 the lord says those that are found worthy to be a part of the age to come in the resurrection of the dead well there's something about becoming worthy the lord himself said so um you know this attention that must be given to truth um that is essential for the bride to be clothed in white garments and this whole bridal thing that you mentioned a moment ago so just take that from whatever perspective you would like yeah i'd love to hear your thoughts well i'll give a word one word that i believe every christian whether he's a writer or not needs to pay attention to and that word is editor okay because uh hebrews 12 talks about 12 2 talks about the lord being the author and the finisher of our faith the author word is a combination of rk so it's apostolic word and the finishing word is an apostolic word we know that finishing anointing is apostolic but what begins something the beginning of a writing process like amy's recently gone through and to where it's completed and some say perfected and they mean that as completed okay what's what is the strong thing in between those two is editing and having an editor all right and the body of christ is so worried about a spirit of criticism they are we are so thin skinned well if you're a national media at all or a national minister at all last thing you want to do is google yourself do that all right i avoid that and then what do you do then you start preaching to everybody oh there's a spirit of criticism out there well no you have picked up a spirit of offense because your feelings got hurt you thought everybody loved you and you found out there a whole web page is dedicated to your destruction right but let it go right because criticism is what takes low art to high art almost i literally called my uh editor one of them i've been under contract to eight publishing houses but i called this one one day and she goes oh john it's you i'm so glad it's you just i i thought it was so-and-so and mentioned this other christian writer and just he won't let me change anything he won't let me change a comma he says everything with god inspired oh gosh well that's really true of paris matter i don't i can't tell you how many people have walked up to me and and thrust the book and god told me to write oh gosh by me if i want to be me my response is you can use this i'll look at it did he tell you to write it so poorly because perfection craftsmanship that pronounces probably prophetic and it begins with an editor we should all also use the word of god as our editor and we probably have favorite verses or favorite books that edit our heart you know we read them and they go through all right quick story i'm 17 years old i'm in a newsroom i got a legend for a city editor sports editor a legend as a publisher world war ii heroes both of them multi-award-winning journalists i've written finally my first story it's coverage of a high school baseball game all right i probably i mean i pretended i was you know a great novelist from the 20s i mean this thing is probably 40 column inches long glued together because we used i'm watching him all right he takes his red marker and i'm watching this my child is bleeding to death over there it's red i see it having red well he takes this long long long piece of paper boils probably 40 column inches down to 20. sends it then to the back shop where uh the paced up guy sat with light boards i mean this is dinosaur age but it was fun back then he had people not just computers and he's pasting things up and he's pasting in this story and he's still too long so what does this guy do takes out his little razor blade removes my byline no not only do i get it you know edited in horror when it comes out it doesn't have my byline on it well for christians for christian writers for the body of christ who's your editor all right and are you willing to produce even at the loss of a byline yeah yeah the loss of that credit line wow wow you know can i just say real quickly when i called john to i i needed help when i was starting writing my my book i he was so amazing to help me and he said something to the effect that his wife says he he shouldn't help new writers because he's so critical and he's not critical but you i don't know what the language was but something something to that effect and i told him you know i had been a high level athlete and um a very high level athlete the high level coach and as an athlete i don't ever remember getting a good job so i said i really had gotten used to criticism and i i needed to know i needed to be told this isn't right and this doesn't work and throughout the process of writing it i kept hearing you know his voice in my head this won't work this won't work this won't work this is good and it really helped me really edit go through this process and see what is necessary and what is not it's like that whole um chew up the meat and spit out the bones you know thing that people have said over the years but i could see how it really does apply to what we listen to and how we walk and how we journey in this life based on what we hear um how we what we're motivated by what is our end time goal you know my goal was to to express in a book the experiences that i've had with the lord and what god was saying in a way that people can understand it relate be blessed and have an increase of reverential fear i was doing it all wrong we're trying too hard you're trying to carefully you were wanting to just ground out another mile you know yes i try harder no more extremely physical person my whole life and now i'm looking for it so i understand you know that part but that part doesn't work uh the other the other key here in that sense of editing is to says you know love is patient love is kind that around patience is love yeah well i am extremely impatient in almost everything in life except my writing yeah why because that's where the love comes in yeah i love the gift that god gave me i love using the gift yeah and i respect that enough i will work on it and work on it and work on it and work on it and because once it's you release it it's gone now i've turned i've had three movie contracts you know through the years and if blue man for uh if i'm approached by film people with blue man they're going to have to crawl through my badlands yeah and get the film rights because it will only be done once it has to be done correctly yeah yeah won't be done correctly i won't let it be done i'm at that moment where i don't know where yeah yeah yeah i love what you said a minute ago and i know we have to wrap this up but where you said um even about in the beginning when i was first starting my process you were trying too hard and i can see that how that applies to what what i always ask this question when i see people you know trying really hard in whatever um social media or all these different things i asked a question or we go into a church and we're going to minister to these people i ask this question what are we what are they doing here what is their what's the goal what's the picture and it always for me comes back to the unity of the faith and the true knowledge of god that this is our this is our end time this is our hope that we come to the unity of the faith and the true knowledge of god and that we would know this love more and we don't have to try so hard to get to that place we can just sort of settle in the next the next level of warfare in my humble and probably ignorant opinion is just to carry his presence yeah all these other battle plans and do this and do that you know i remember coming out of a conference in missoula and i paul keith may have been at that one that's where i first met you personally right and i there was a morning session i came it was it was great and i came out and i went to to a kiosk of some sort and i'm standing behind this young gal college student probably and missoula is a very very liberal school i mean famously so and this gal's probably you know just a you know a real liberal college kid and i'm a straight-leg short-haired former hippie but cowboy all right i was so radiating the holy ghost that she just turned around and gave me the biggest smile because her spirit which may not have been redeemed could sense the holy spirit in my spirit and that's what she responded to so it will be marked by by carrying his presence more than the effort that's right i totally agree well john let's uh i'm gonna get you to pray you know i think one of the things i think we can conclude from this is we need a spirit of excellence that christians should lead the way in what we do and not settle for mediocrity um i do believe that the sons of the kingdom are going to be given profound revelation but i believe it has to be articulated in ways that are that have excellence on them um you know the one other thing i saw in that um experience i had was that much of what we do now will carry over into the age to come you know having a mentality that i'm going to do something that maybe they'll be reading my book in the age to come or your book whatever you know what i'm saying uh that we have this kind of or we're going to build buildings that will last over into the age to come or we're going to have paintings that will carry over even into the age to come and so forth um maybe from that perspective just pray for us and we'll we'll close this thing out is whatever the lord gives you okay oh father we come before you in jesus holy precious and powerful name and father gives this excitement father about creativity knowing nothing is created that you haven't first created and we simply father our in a our imitating but godly imitation of the divine and release and power father of creativity and father to all of those hearts out there father who have it because we all have it in us to express our love to express our joy to express the truth of who we are in christ we are new creatures we need ways and methods of expressing that so those who are lost can truly see it and to be real in that to really be real to be genuine uh to have respect from the world rather than being mocked by the world not because we pursue respect but we we command respect because our work is excellent our attitude is excellent father give us that grace let it be a great grace that you pour out and pour down upon us and father surround us with safety and protection for we are often too foolish to seek it that's right other loosen those angels father god who desire father who desire to come and protect and to serve and may we always give honor honor to the people about us father lost or saved honor father god to the creator honor to the creation and to learn to walk through the creation as redeemers for it groans awaiting our maturity it groans awaiting our wakefulness lord help us wake up the true woke movement father god is of the awakening bride yeah may it be so yes and bless father god and protect paul keith and amy father and your other many prophetic servants and those uh warring father god on all levels father bless protect unite restore jesus name amen awesome well thank you for that john we sure enjoyed it um i can kind of maybe see a follow-up coming you know maybe we can do some very practical things um we're just now seeing some of the comments of people that have been watching live and uh i feel like it's going to tweak some interest and maybe we'll talk to you about maybe doing a couple of little um you know sessions um writing seminar type things whatever just some practical stuff that i think people will be interested in we appreciate you john and uh we bless you and deb and all that you guys are doing we pray that this drought be broken lord in jesus name help them and this ranching help them in the west lord we're praying for grace supernatural grace that you would do something that only you can take credit for and help these farmers and ranchers and all of these that are suffering so much we ask that in jesus name amen all right john we sure love you yeah bless you guys thank you god bless you see you bye

Channel: WhiteDove Ministries with Paul Keith and Amy Davis

Views: 5,097

Rating: 4.9019608 out of 5

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Id: TQOVBnWIuSY

Length: 59min 43sec (3583 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 02 2021