An extended conversation with Voddie Baucham on Social Justice

are you taught real go and make disciples what could possibly give me a hug hello and welcome to wretched my name is Todd real I am your host the wretch of the song refers to please welcome devotee baucom everybody Bodhi you my friend are going to tell us a story Oh wonderful we'll see about that because we are told these days that we need to listen to people's stories I'm speaking specifically about the realm of racial issues in our country as best I can tell the times seem to be changing it's a turbulent time for racial relations and those conversations that are happening outside of the church have made their way inside of the church and we have got some good brothers who are telling us you need to hear the story of black people in America and it will change your tune how you view the whole racial landscape and how we in the church go about fixing it now at the moment I'm less interested in the social justice specifics at the moment but I want to listen if I'm being told by many voices that I will be affected and changed by hearing stories from people who have experienced black people who have experienced what white people have not in this country I want to hear those stories because I want to learn what has always made I think some of us a little gun-shy is it feels like maybe there's an agenda behind the stories or maybe I can't trust the source of the stories buddy I trust you and so I want to hear from you explain to me a white man what is it like to be a black man in America 21st century well as you were saying that here's what I was thinking and as you were saying you know I trust you and you you know you want to hear from me I could hear people out there who are doing two things simultaneously on and what I say people out there I mean people who would be advocates of this right we need dialogue and we need to hear one another's stories right you need to hear black people's stories on the one hand they're hearing you say that and they're going yes you need to hit black people's stories and then you're pointing to me and you're saying okay I want to hear it and some of those same people would be going no no no I'm not here because I don't qualify because I don't have the right worldview this is what you have to understand that whole idea is predicated on something else and that is that there is a black story right there are elements of that story when you hear people telling you know there's there there's stories you hear certain elements of the stories they put the emphasis on certain syllables right of of the story and to me that's the problem is that we categorize one another according to the group to which we belong we categorize our stories according to the accepted narrative of the group and then we say we need to listen to one another and I I agree that we need to listen to one another but I what I mean by that is you need to treat me as an individual and not as the member of a group I think it's just as Grievous for you look you know what a racist do what's the problem that racists have the problem that racists have is that they categorize and generalize right and then they castigate people based upon the group to which they belong because if they've they've categorized that group and generalize that group right well now what we're doing is we're saying you have to stop that okay fine we stop that then what's the alternative the alternative is to listen to our story we'll wait the only way it can be our story is if we categorize and generalize in that what got us in trouble in the first place so we need to hear the story of people but we need to hear the broader story of history and I think one of the reasons that some of these things are sort of catching on is that people are recognizing that there's a lot of history that has been withheld there's a lot of history that hasn't been emphasized or understood one of the things that I as you know that we as a home school family have been able to do is really this sort of shape and fashion the things that we emphasize as it relates to history now you hear that and you'd be right to assume that that means our children learn some things about black people in history that other children may not learn about black people in history but it also means that our children learn some things about white people in history that other children don't necessarily learn about white people in history and for example my children read mine Kampf before we're done with them right well there are a lot of people who say no no no no stay away from that I said no no I I I want you to read that my children also read Origin of Species right there are people who are teaching well anyway but you know how many people actually in school are going to read Origin of Species and are going to read mine Kampf before they get out of high school right not many so it's not just that my kids are reading the souls of black folks right it's not just that they're you know that they're reading Frederick Douglass and if they're reading it it's not just if they're reading those things we're we're reading more broadly so that we have a full orbed understanding of things and I think one of the things that's happening is people are able to say here's an area of history here's an area of our story as black people that is being de-emphasized or that is being ignored people hear that in they go well yeah that's kind of true and then we let that sort of shake the way that the conversation goes we start with that assumption that you you you have a deficit that's not just a historical information deficit but you have a deficit that is a theological deficit and that is a spiritual deficit because of this information deficit and that's where I'm not willing to go I'm not willing to say that you are only qualified as an individual to speak to these issues or to understand these issues if you are familiar with this new Canon that we've created because I believe in the sufficiency of Scripture and I believe that if you are my brother in Christ and committed to the Word of God now I don't have to add other books to your stack in order for us to find common ground and to be reconciled in Christ so no other tools but the Bible all right with that voting share with us your experience as a black man in America regarding your children and what perhaps the conversations that you have with them that I might not have with mine these are the faces of your Christian brothers and sisters who are smiling despite the fact that they live in regions around the globe that are the most persecuted countries you can bring a smile to a fellow believers face for just $5 by sending them a Bible through Bible II would you like to bring a smile to a believers face wretched dot org slash Bible share with us your experience as a black man in America regarding your children and what perhaps the conversations that you have with them that I might not have with mine are there any yeah yeah they're there they're definitely are there there are talks that we have with with our kids that I have I have found that are common in black families that a lot of other families are just not aware of you know I talked to my sons about how to conduct themselves if they're stopped by the Popo I mean I I do I had those conversations with my mother when I was growing up about how to conduct myself if I'm stopped by the Popo not necessarily because all police officers are of a particular ilk but because we recognize historically that there have been some who've been of a particular ilk and we don't know who's who so there are those kinds of conversations that we that we have to have with people there we have to have with our children we have to have conversations about the way black people have been perceived historic and sometimes still tend to be perceived and how we have to present ourselves I I can't remember you know conversations with my mother I was bust I again I grew up in in Los Angeles I grew up in South Central LA and I was bust and I was bust for my school in south central to a school and Pacific Palisades and it just sounds like a place where there's not a lot of black people right I mean Pacific Palisades and I can remember conversations before that happened about me being a representative not just of my family not just of my school in my neighborhood but a representative of all people who look like me now you know I'm an elementary school right that's a conversation that I found that is much more common among minorities than they are among people who find themselves in the majority mm-hmm do I draw the conclusion there for the police force in America is systemically racist no how do I know mmm and I don't and I don't either but there there are racists and police forces there there are racists who who wear the uniform and people who have a whole lot of other sin problems right who wear the uniform and there has been historically there's this long history and I mean I was told about Emmett Till and you know Magor Evers and others I mean I was told I was told those stories I was I was brought up with those stories right and being reminded that that there are people who have historically had that perspective and come from that ilk and um things like that and that we have to be but we have to be careful because of that but here's what's interesting I have conversations now with my children living in Zambia about the fact that their accent may make them a target because it's true right now we're in a place now where people hear our accent and they go ah outsider a lot of times for example and just give you a small example well we'll go to certain markets and they'll be open-air markets where you're buying the vegetables or are you buying you know souvenirs or whatever and a lot of times if I have a Zambian with me I'll let them go and start the conversation so that I don't end up paying what I like to call the accent tax uh-huh right right and so they're there they're there is that that tendency there is the tendency to to stereotype it's a normal natural thing you know for people to do and we have to be aware of that and not assume that that's you know help help me out because I hear voices recognizing for instance statistically the crime rate the arrest rate the incarceration rate of people in the black community people would say it's disproportionately high and I think we don't look we'd all agree with that no matter how you slice it yes disproportionately high and yet the explanation for those statistics are polar opposites one says it's because we are being selected because of our skin colour other people are saying no it's just because you're committing more crimes aha how do I work through those competing voices important dates in Christian history to 70 AD a wealthy young man named Antony gives away his possessions and begins life as a hermit disciples follow his example and the first monastic movement began you will be hard-pressed to find a woman who was in crisis who saw an ultrasound and kept her baby and regretted it right now through the end of December all of your gifts to preborn dot-org / wretched will be matched $28 per ultrasound you will not regret it and neither will mommy please support preborn dot-org / wretched statistically the crime rate the arrest rate the incarceration rate of people in the black community people would say it's disproportionately high and I think we don't look we'd all agree with that no matter how you slice it yes disproportionately high and yet the explanation for those statistics are polar opposites one says it's because we are being selected because of our skin color other people are saying no it's just because you're committing more crimes ha how do I work through those competing voices I don't think we will be I don't think we work through those competing voices and I think that's the problem I think the problem is that we look at this information we look at this data and then we say ok these people are saying this about this data and these people are saying that about this data that that's the wrong that's the wrong answer I think what we need to do is look at the data and ask hard questions concerning the data right don't just assume that everywhere you see a discrepancy you see discrimination they're there they're there not only can be but are much more complex reasons for many of these discrepancies that we see I give an example and I've used this on a number of occasions people look at the discrepancy between the penalties for crack cocaine and powder cocaine right you could call it with a very small amount of crack cocaine you know mandatory minimum sentence in order to get the equivalent mandatory minimum sentence with powder cocaine you'd have to have orders of magnitude more of the drug you notice for that to happen and because of that when it comes to drug crimes and people's in car for a car serration for drug crimes there was absolutely a disproportionate number of people serving disproportionately large sentences for crack cocaine which tended to be in minority right neighborhoods and minority issues compared to powder cocaine which tended to be in other areas in neighborhoods well but what we don't usually hear what that is that during the 1980s when the streets were running red with blood in black neighborhoods because of the crack epidemic it was black members of the Congressional Black Caucus who demanded tougher laws on crack cocaine in order to stem the tide of what was going on in the black community they demanded tougher laws in response to that demand for tougher laws there were increased penalties for crack as related to powder cocaine right so has there been a discrepancy absolutely there has been was it because of a systemic racist policy nope it was something that was demanded by members of the Congressional Black Caucus teach me then how to listen to some of the folks who are in the social justice side that I would say I did I just flat-out disagree with that how do I actually or them without siding with them and without making every evangelical on the planet who agrees with me angry at me because I've actually tried to learn something from the other side yeah I think one of the I think one of the big problems is social media and I'll tell you why you know in this world of social media where you have you know limited space and you don't don't get to develop arguments and this anything you know you you can say something you know about somebody or tweet something about somebody whereas if you're dealing with a whole sermon a whole message or a whole book or a chapter or something like that I mean you can you can quote a statement from somebody in a particular context right that makes it very clear about what it is that you're saying and what it is that you're that you're supporting and it doesn't even have to necessarily be something that you support sometimes I'll quote something from somebody that I obviously disagree with in order to make the point that even this person who disagrees with me sees this truth right and so I think one of the problems is that we're not having sustained conversations debates and instead you know it's all over social media yeah I agree yeah and we need more sustained based on and based on relationship right and to me that's that's that's what saddens me about all this is that we're creating an environment where relationships are becoming more difficult to sustain then help us if you would conclude this with a bode baucom story that will help those of us who who apparently can't we can't understand the world that you've grown up in help me to under enlighten me so that I can be a better listener and under standard understanding person of the issue please spend just a few moments in Eastern Europe amenities few entertainment very little work very very hard and yet thanks to tomorrow clubs there is joy would you please support your own tomorrow club 30 dollars a month 30 disciples tomorrow clubs org slash wretched chances are pretty good as the year draws to a close you're taking a look at things like finances potentially abundance maybe you're studying ministries that could use your financial support and I encourage you to consider supporting us at wretched if this program has benefited you in any way would you please consider becoming a gospel partner we can't do anything I know but that's just the way the world works and if you have extra at the end of the year your consider supporting a ministry would you please consider becoming a gospel partner and supporting us wretched org slash donate then help us if you would conclude this with a bode baucom story that will help those of us who who apparently can't we can't understand the world that you've grown up in help me to under enlighten me so that I can be a better listener and under standard understanding person of the issue okay just just to give you some perspective me my cousin my uncle my uncle who's the United States Marine this is a another uncle's marine I come from we had bunch of Marines in our and our family my mother's other brother was also a marine they both fought in in Vietnam and the Marine Corps and my grandmother used to live about a block or so off Pacific Coast Highway one night we're visiting I was in college at the time had come back and we're visiting my grandmother my uncle his son my cousin and me were walking down Pacific Coast Highway and we get pulled over by the Popo we hadn't done anything in particular we just didn't particularly look like we should be walking down that part of Pacific Coast Highway at that particular time and so we end up on the sidewalk and my uncle tears streaming down his face and he says some words that I can't repeat here this is wrong and he said I fought for this country war the uniform of this country represented this country put my life on the line for this country I'm walking down the street blocks away from my mother's house and a couple of young white cops gonna treat me like this nah this is not okay and he got up and there was an incredible moment of tension and on everybody's face we could see the incredible tension and ultimately in that instance what happened was these two cops decided yeah this is something that we need to not pursue the three of us turned around we didn't even go we were getting ready go to the store something like that we didn't even finish going to the store turned around and walked back to my grandmother's house and none of us said a word none of us said a word but it was one of those moments that has a shaping influence it was one of those moments that made me and my cousin in our generation feel like outsiders in ways that we had not it made my uncle feel like an outsider in a way that a generation before he had experienced and it felt like things were a lot better by then and was reminded that they weren't that there's so many things that happened in that evening and in that moment so much history that at that moment I felt like an unfortunate part of and and it's moments like that that can really shape us in incredibly negative ways or in incredibly positive ways and I'm grateful to God then now as I look back on instances like that in moments like that I can say that it shaped me in incredibly positive ways one of my dear well anyway I'll just I'll leave it at that I'll leave it at that all that to say let me let me set the bar very very low regarding conversations among ethnic groups racial issues social justice issues that perhaps we Christians could listen better and communicate better than Washington DC perhaps we could do better than that bori baucom everybody until tomorrow don't serve your community congratulations to handy summer you're the winner of today's free download judge not you could win free stuff too if you sign up for the free wretched newsletter at wretched dot org wretched amazing grace

Channel: Wretched

Views: 275,666

Keywords: Todd Friel, Wretched TV, Wretched Radio, Evangelism, Gospel

Id: pd1swytlzBg

Length: 28min 30sec (1710 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 18 2020