AMD made a terrible flaw with this design...

well uh we're gonna talk about am4 and am5 compatibility today because uh there are some things that I didn't even realize I mean I kind of did but didn't until actually watching der Bauer's video about the d-litting tool and direct eye cooling kit that he has been developing which by the way we will be doing a video about I'm really excited about that I'll put a link to devourer's video down below I think you guys should go and check it out if you're interested about direct eye Cooling and some things that we kind of thought about am5's temperatures and it's all kind of coming to light now so let's talk about these sort of ugly truth about one am4's compatibility with am5 and why the temperatures are so damn high due to its AMD ryzen 6000 series processor IPS QHD plus 240 hertz screen and RX 6800m discrete graphics the Voyager a1600 from Corsair is a no compromise mobile Computing Powerhouse Voyager also features slipstream Wireless integration for Corsair slipstream devices Cherry MX mechanical keys with capellix per key RGB programming and integrated stream deck software the Voyager a1600 from Corsair changes the way you do Mobile gaming and creation to see the complete feature list follow the sponsored Link in the description below not LTT store screwdriver I'm actually not like intentionally not using it it's just like I said I I have my preferred tools it's this ugly ten dollar one from Amazon that you can't even buy anymore it's just a sledgehammer or whatever it's called it's called Warhammer Hammerhead I can't remember I'm going to take this cooler off this is an am4 AIO um but there's a little bit more to the story than just does it have am4 mountings because I prefer these mounts by the way which have the uh as you can see I had the screws that kind of go through the hole but what you'll notice about this particular cooler also gives me a chance to sort of inspect my my Mount here as you can see it looks like it might have been on there a little bit crooked as you can see it's uh some thick spots and then some really thin spots so that kind of makes me feel like it might have been a little bit crooked which are all things that you have to think about and uh be cognizant of when it comes to mounting your coolers but it's not going to matter in the future as I go direct eye we're going to kind of be all over the place in this particular video because there's like three different things I want to talk about here the first thing I want to talk about is how they are getting am4 compatibility to be compatible with an am4 cooler there's two things that have to be correct one obviously has to be able to have the same pole mounting so if we look at the bottom of this motherboard you can see it is using the am4 am4 slash am5 retention bracket on the back and I say M4 am5 slash or am4 slash am5 because it's not exactly the same let me let me get an am4 motherboard to show you so this is a Crosshair 8 dark hero motherboard and if you remember the default mounting mechanism for am3 and am4 is this kind of a hook system Now by default this motherboard does have that hook system by the way I have it removed because the particular cooler that I was using has the little standoffs that screw down onto the back plate you can see it's got the same little like through hole right there and this is just designed to screw down on that I prefer to have a four point mounting mechanism like this because I feel like it can give you a better better tension on the die or excuse me the IHS and I feel like the the double clip system in the middle right here allows it to kind of rock weird depending if you have tubes that are pulling on it if you're going AIO or whatever I don't like this method so what I always do is I find Methods at a cooler is that allow me to take that off now here's the thing once you start getting into water cooling and a lot of air coolers too and in fact over here if you look we do have some samples that we're going to be testing here we got a couple of a be quiet air cooler be quiet AIO two different noctuas this is a sample a lot of these particular coolers have their own back plate so as you can see right here my impact doesn't even have one mounted at all like no back plate and no retention system at all because of the fact that clearly whatever cooler I used on here last uses its own and I lose those brackets all the time and that's why they're not on there what did I do with this guy actually is I was smart with that with the am5 I took the parts off pretty much Ziploc baggie and I put them back in the motherboard box you know like someone who's organized would do but anyway that's kind of besides the point we're moving on to a different topic there which we will get into in this video but to be am4 compatible the new motherboard has to have the same mounting points which it does it does have these same brackets right here although they're a little bit different so like this from this motherboard bringing it over to an am4 based on what we're seeing on the z-axis height is different so these were mounted on there right down on the motherboard and there's the screws and stuff on there so I took them off but it has to have the same mechanism and then the same hooks have to be at the same height but more importantly whatever height they've chose to put the socket has to be at the same height and uh PGA or pin grid array CPU which is all the AMD CPUs up to ryzen 5000 series so the height has to be the same and then the holes have to be the same theoretically and then the hooks have to be in the same spot the only thing that actually makes am5 am4 compatible is if you're using a cooler that has the hooks if you're using a cooler that does not retain the original back plate you undo the four screws you pull off the two brackets you pull the back plate off but you can't and this is exactly what the bower was talking about because these four screws right here these Torx bit screws one two three four which are very similar to Intel's screw into that bracket right there right there right there and right there so that bracket is actually being held on with eight mounting points four of them are on the little you know hook mounts and then four of them are on the socket so what he was having to manufacture is a replacement hold down mechanism for the CPU it's kind of it's kind of nuts because what you'll what you'll get here if I was to take this off you've got to be careful with AMD now just like Intel Oh see it's I hate I do hate dealing with LGA I really do look at all those pins but if I were to take the CPU off set that aside and then undo those four screws you're just left with this little tray that has all the pins in there because you cannot remove that bracket on the back without also taking away the mount for the CPU hold down retention or the lever system that means coolers are not going to be universally applicable with am5 just because they say it's compatible with am4 coolers so AMD was not very forthcoming with the information of saying it's compatible with am4 coolers asterisks because of the fact that it has to be the coolers that use the hooks and the hooks only now a lot of Manufacturers recognize the the hook mechanism is not the best hold down solution or the safest pull-down solution it takes a lot of tension to get those hooks down on there now aios that have the hooks they're not that bad because you can loosen up the screw get them hooked on and then tighten the screw down but if you're using like any of the old style coolers where it was intended for you to take a flathead screwdriver and like slot it in there and push it down just ask Phil about how he basically shaved a whole layer of smds right off his motherboard when he was younger because it slipped I'm sure somebody in the video's comments right now has experienced that with the older cooler design and it shows you how long they've been using it because that was an app on XP yeah and then am2 I believe used it and am3 and all that stuff so that mounting mechanism aside why are the temperatures so high with am5 well remember that z-axis thing I said it has to be at the same plane and the reason for that is a lot of these coolers and again we'll get into the looking at the coolers which will some of these may work some may not they may all work but I know for a fact not all of them do because um I experienced trying to mount a cooler to it that has its own back plate uh rule of thumb if it has its own back plate similar to like how this Corsair one is if you have to replace the back plate with an AMD one it won't work with am5 period end of story side note AMD is aware of this and they say they are coming out with a bracket the problem is it's not out yet it will not be available for anyone on day one and a lot of the coolers companies have not gone through and actually updated a lot of their material to say whether or not it is truly compatible with am5 yet so it's gonna be one of those your guess is as good as ours on exactly which coolers are compatible because you have a lot of different mounting mechanisms out there but back to what I was saying because I get sidetracked a lot and it's ADHD and it's just what happens what so rather than like shimming the socket or making the socket height a certain spot or or just kind of pre-determining where all of that was going to line up the way AMD sort of approached it is they just went let's just make the IHS thickness as thick as it needs to be to be at the z-axis height of ryzen 5000 and blower am4 sockets that is nearly two millimeters thicker than the IHS found on am4 CPUs I can't begin to tell you how much resistance there is in an integrated heat spreader that is nearly two millimeters thicker in terms of thermal conductivity and efficiency it's significant sure they went with soldered which is good because we all know what happens especially with ask Intel what happens when you use thermal interface material that's not solder based in between an IHS and the dye but what happens when that dye that that integrated heat spreader is thicker and thicker and thicker devour on Direct dye Cooling I'll get it but even though he was using liquid metal uh which he was saying like hey our our results are not attributed to just liquid metal it's just an opportunity if you're doing direct eye you might as well use it um he said it was a county for about 2C at the most 3C of the cooling he dropped up to 21c cooler with the stock voltage that led to higher core clocks at stock voltage at up to 21c drop and that's attributed directly to the super thick IHS and the reason why I bring up the super thick IHS is if you look at the CPU I thought well there's no way that the IHS is actually that thick it's got to like it's got to maybe be a box I thought it was just gonna be a box I know all ihs's are a box to some degree because it has to make up for the height of the die but this one's like a big ass box Okay so you will you can absolutely bet remember I said I'm gonna go with the 7950x in in my new build even though I I just never did the 12th gen I never took it home because I was just like I feel dirty taking it home I will be doing direct eye for for multiple reasons one the mounting mechanism system that he's developing to go with it takes care of all of the z-axis height issues comes with the mounting mechanism on the back and everything the whole the socket retention down because you got to hold the CPU substrate down somehow which is this mechanism here you don't want to rely on passing through and just having the cooler hold it down kind of like the Xeon mechanism for like servers and stuff it's just not as safe that way but just for the sake of knowing now okay sure it can throw it can thermally handle 95c but we're now seeing it doesn't have to there is never I say never with like three asterisks there is a poor it can be too cold ask liquid nitrogen folks but there's never a such thing as too good of a cooler in a conventional application period end of story no discussion no argument shut up if you're arguing because you're wrong there's no such thing as it being too cool in getting it down as far below TJ Maxx as close to ambient as possible so okay now that you understand the z-axis height and how AMD addressed it by making IHS thickness match rather than actually making the substrate thickness or whatever have anything to do with it you now know that the bat if it uses a back plate uh replacement of any sort it's not going to work because the socket hold down mechanism bolts directly to that like if we look here look there's no holes there see on the standard am4 one look at the am5 one you can see the extra four holes in the middle of the bracket that's what's being that's what it's holding down is the socket retention system so that's obviously a problem let's just go ahead and do a little sampling right here all we want to do is we're not going to mount them up we just are just going to look at which mechanism are they using and I might if these end up you know working great but if they don't we'll take a look at some other brands to see we got here so we already know this right here is actually the hit the Intel hold down mechanism for the uh the Corsair CPU Block in fact this is actually from my block right here that's why it's this nice kind of a cerakote black um I can't remember if my block actually uses that hold down we'll have to check I guess because I was telling people AMD said M4 bucks would be compatible but we're learning a lot of no EK blocks will because they use their own backplate all right this is the noctua nhu12a very common mainstream C uh CPU Cooler people love it because of the fact that it is all black and I can tell you right now this one will work why because it uses this method it replaces the standoffs themselves so let's test it real quick so you do the same thing on the other side and then on the CPU there's a crossbar or this the cooler there's a crossbar and that's what you screw down using the little little nuts so as you can see nhu12a passed pass uh the nhd15 is not going to work so this is an older one when was this manufactured um no am4 mentioned on this that shows you how old this cool is we haven't even had this one all that long have we and the reason why this isn't going to work is simply because of the fact that you saw how on the other noctua it used the Long Way brackets this one uses the sideways brackets am4 is wider than am3 so as you can see it's pretty far off that's because the am3 holes are that much narrower and check this out so if you take a look at the holes actually easier if you look at the back they just did it on the diagonals and this one the dark the dark might be the same you see how that has the diagonal so that's how they gave compatibility on this board noctua nhd15 fail be quiet okay now seriously be quiet I'm trying to talk here okay so the be quiet pure rock to FX that's what people think I am whatever think that way it's fine be quiet is a very popular brand there's no doubt about it a lot of people use be quiet but if we take a look at the mounting mechanism which one are they using okay we can already just call this one a pass it is using the same uh hold down long ways and then the way it mounts because I know some people were just really curious about that is this little crossbar is what screws down onto there actually goes that way and then that just holds the cooler down be quiet pure rock 2fx validated so this is actually one of the minimum spec coolers I recommend with a 7950x if you're not going to be doing any sort of voltage tuning or uh direct die cooling which again avoids warranty so I don't recommend people that you know don't want to avoid their warranty to do that but this one already validated but instead of like the coolers uh the air coolers how it uses a long bracket so instead of doing a sideways bracket it does a long ways bracket which is good because that gives you more clearance for your RAM we all know what happens when things and especially tubes and all that mounting mechanisms start getting too close to the ram be quiet pure Loop 2fx validated is the biggest test the JSU sends collaboration block with Corsair um I realistically don't know how this is gonna go because I cannot remember what the mounting mechanisms like for AMD because when I use it in my rig it was Intel and perfectly compatible Intel because nothing's really changed with Intel except for the whole spacing since LGA 775 uh if you want one of these available links are down below I'll put all the purchase things you guys can go and buy and yes they are actually available on shelves at Micro Center so if you live near a Micro Center go get it even if you don't want to use it just put on your shelf oh I think we're good so it comes pre-installed with look at that even has my logo in the thermal paste that's worth to see right there I forgot that we used I was very adamant about not using the clips I we actually had a lot of discussion about this bracket and you'll notice this bracket in terms of color and all that was very different than their other CPU blocks it's all self-retained because one of the things I hated having to do was Mount stuff and mount stuff and mount stuff so all you have to do to make the AMD block work I don't want to mess up the thermal paste so there's an example of the block being installed DJ water block validated in fact Phil even just commented how my water block was the easiest install of everything so far yeah because you can take the Intel one off which again pre-installed take this one mount it on and the orientation you want it to be there you go and mount it down so this kind of wraps up today's video about things you need to know regarding the am4 am5 compatibility we know that the the temperatures suck because IHS is so thick that's probably why they had to raise the Headroom honestly of the CPU TJ Maxx because they had to account for that extra thickness just being inefficient and causing the temperatures to go up it's not hurting the CPU and that that's what TJ Maxx is by the way it's thermal Junction Max it says that's the number at which the CPU cannot exceed under 24K 24 hour uh load cases before damage will occur now that's also like saying you can if your red line on your engine is 7000 RPM where you can run it at 6 900 RPM constantly all day every day and it won't cause damage than wear and tear to the engine that's simply not true the thing is CPUs are outlasting even with degradation they're like they're expected life cycles in terms of when people upgrade so if it would have lasted 15 years and now it's lasting 12 most people would never know that I'm not advocating for the temperature saying it's not in my opinion too high but now seeing how the direct dye cooling which is always better and more efficient I think what I would love to see is if dare Bauer was to I'd love to see another test dear Bauer please watch this part maybe I'll email you take a piece of material that's very similar to the IHS thickness of standard ryzen and place that in between your thermal uh or your die and your direct cooler can we add that thickness in between and see what happens to the cooling because that would tell you then if it had the same IHS thickness as ryzen the 5000 series and Below would the temperatures have been bad as bad because that's the only way we'd be able to validate that so I'm really curious now uh once you add that material between what the numbers would be direct die is always the most efficient but I want to know what it would be is if you were to stick a piece of the same material same thickness as a standard IHS between but there you go so the too long didn't watch version if your cooler requires a back plate replacement which is just about every single uh water block on the market for open air or open loop cooling especially EK um except for mine now EK for the most part is like kind of out until they come up the bracket but EK is aware of that and they are going to be coming out with a bracket that presumably is just going to have the four holes that allow the mounting down of the socket and then they'll have the spacing there for the substrate on the back and all the dies and stuff to not impact that maybe EK really should just come up with a mounting mechanism that stops using their own bracket and just uses the four posts that are already there my opinion but you know EK hasn't cared about my opinion in a long time if it uses a custom backplate on the back it won't work any other kind that uses the hardware that mounts to the existing posts or the clip type will work just fine all right guys thanks for watching hope this educated you and keeps you from maybe making a mistake or having to wait for someone to come up with a fix for the mistake all right guys we'll see in the next one

Channel: JayzTwoCents

Views: 800,227

Keywords: 7950x, 7950x delid, 7950x cooling, am4 vs am5, will am4 cooler work on am5, am5 coolers

Id: dpdf0g3zAqA

Length: 21min 23sec (1283 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 02 2022