Advice On Parenting | My Spiritual Father, Kenneth E. Hagin | Dr. Ed Dufresne & More

so i was reading your bio and it's it's so amazing to see your story it's such uh you've done so much in such little time and um even from a young it doesn't feel like it feels like a drop in the bucket you know we would hear yes we would hear dad hagan say he says you know i feel like i've done so little and it made the rest of us want to crawl under our chairs you know if he's done so little where does that look most of us right yes yes ma'am but because you've been so obedient to the plan of god you have done so much your life um i wanted to see what what can you attribute the the fact that god was able to use you at such a young age i mean early 20s you were doing dynamic things for god can you tell us what well i i tell you god rescued me on several i can point back to several rescues because first of all i was going the wrong direction after when it was time to go to college yes um i was going the wrong direction with a relationship i was in i was engaged to someone prior to meeting and marrying my husband and so if i would have continued on those paths i would have missed the plan of god and i'm so thankful that he kept sending rescues across my path but i will say this um from the time i was little you know i was raised in a denominational church precious people but we weren't really taught the word right but there was a hunger in me and i if i could say this to people if you will keep the hunger god will you you keep the door open for god to bring you into what he has for you hungry just being hungry is a huge huge key um i like i said i was raised in the denominational church i prayed tony all the time i didn't know you needed to be born again you know i wasn't born again but we never heard a salvation message so i talked to god and um then there came a time when i got a little bit older you know in my teenage years and my mother had always made sure that there were four kids in the family uh my mother made sure that we were in church um when i got to when i was in fifth grade i started taking piano lessons and when i got to about the eighth grade our church organist moved well when you only have a handful of people in your church for the church organist to move is a crisis you know and so the the um the choir director came to my mother she was in the choir along with my sister you know i was in the choir i was only you know like 12 and 13. i was the only young one in the choir i asked if i could be in the choir i was sitting there with a lot of people older than me but i just loved music so much i just wanted to be in the choir so um my my our church uh choir director came to my mother and said carolyn said our organist is going to be moving do you think that nancy would be willing to become the church organist he said would you ask her if she would and mother said she would love to and so that was a picture of my life my mother guided us and write right decisions and she taught us what a good decision looked like you know she didn't leave it up to us to flounder and until she saw that we could make right decisions she she made sure that we were where we should be and so when i s when i was in eighth grade i started playing the organ and i was at as the organist you know you got to be at everything you got to be at all the services you've got to be at all the funerals the weddings the rehearsals you've got to be there i was there more than the pastor they gave me a key to the church i opened the church i closed the church down i did that for five years and when my my choir director said the mother he said carolyn he said you know we would we'll be glad to pay her the salary there's in the budget of the church there's a salary for the organ his mother said oh no you won't pay her she's going to learn that she can do something for her church without being paid and so mother taught us that that you just did something because you had a gift you owed it you owed the gift and so that's the way mother handled us and so when i got to be a junior in high school so i had been playing eighth ninth tenth eleventh grade i've been playing four years and the the the choir director again came and says carolyn nancy's done this for four years we haven't given her a dime and said we feel bad you know and mother said okay she just got a car you can give her gas money so i got five dollars a month so i i would dare to say that might be a picture of what my my organ playing was worth but um i i was paid five dollars a month and then uh in my senior year again he said you know nancy's going off to college and uh we want to help her with that mother said okay you pay her 20 a month so i did get a big raise there and got 20 a month but tony you know um what that church would have paid me i don't know what it would have paid normally but when it came time for me to go to um to go to to college i had a scot i had scholarships that completely paid for virtually all my college and i had to point it back to the sowing in the local church that god made sure that provision was there and um so the pay was later but the pay was greater than what that church could have ever done and my mother understood that you know and so when you give kids a head start in a local church they have a head start in life and my the thing i so appreciate about my parents is they were good common sense people they didn't um they didn't believe in just quoting the scripture to you when you disobeyed they would handle your flesh you know and then you know we didn't know that we didn't know the bible but we knew the principles of the bible if i could say it that way they raised us in line with the principles of the word although we didn't have regular prayer you know around that in the house we didn't have bible study time so to speak there was a reverence and a respect for the things of god that was put in us so that when it came time that i left home and i went to college i was i was in the habit of church attendance so god could easily direct me to a church where i heard the salvation message so i got saved when i was 19. and uh so that was i i remember when you know i married my husband when i was 22. so i had only been saved uh three years when i married my husband i had only been filled with the holy ghost maybe two years a year and a half two years yes so you understand i knew so little about the word i knew so little about the holy spirit but the thing is is that when i said to god when i started pastoring uh right around the age of 30 i said to god i said you know i i i feel a void in the sense of i didn't get to be an associate somewhere or serve alongside pastor and he pointed me back to all those years when i started in eighth grade and you know it wasn't just that we didn't i didn't just start playing the organ on saturdays i mean if anything needed being done around the church we spent our saturdays mowing the church lawn we did everything for the church and god pointed me back and said your training began years ago before your salvation and so just good chur local church habits and i tell you this is where a lot of parents i think struggle they might be born again they may know something of the word but if they don't impress and put in the in the system of their home good local church habits they're going to have struggles that they shouldn't have and if you keep kids in the in the local church you're keeping them within the reach of the anointing the anointing can reach them there it and you know parents will say well they don't want to go that has nothing to do with it keep them in proximity keep them in proximity of the anointing because god can minister to them uh and so because of that it never dawned on me to marry someone that wasn't local church oriented because i grew up in the local church i would i remember you know before i was married i would go out on dates and i would ask what church do you go to or how often do you go and if they didn't go to church we're done you know we didn't have a relationship because that was ingrained in the system of my life and because when you have those those certain foundational systems put in place uh you can build quicker god can build in your lives some things i think a little quicker and so i just encourage parents and uh the value of the habit of the local church is huge huge and we built our lives around it you know yes and uh so i would i would say that that was my head start is the disciplines and the respect for the local church and when we went to church we didn't horse around i mean you set up and you paid attention or your flesh fell felt it then and later right you remember that you had a bit of that absolutely we came into the like we would have to walk in we had a small foyer and as soon as we got in the foyer there was a mother in there or somebody they said shh right you had to walk into the into this to the sanctuary humbled and you know reverend well well mother you know mother put a difference between the local church and the playground you know she put a difference between the local church and our daily life and so because of that there was a respect and a regard although we didn't know scriptures per se we didn't know certain things to confess we knew we knew the principles of honor we knew the principles of you know that that there was a difference between um the world and and the things of the church absolutely i love something that you said too earlier you said that um your mother had you all around older people oh yes how much has that helped you or for your the plan i got for your life well as i said there were four of us in the house and one thing my mother did not put up was she we had a fun home we had a relaxed home we had a welcoming home but we didn't have a silly point wow did not like yes yes you can laugh you can play but if you're going to be silly we're shutting the whole thing down and so very good so she she realized that maturity was important and she kept us around older people when my parents were around uh when they would go out and be with older people she took us with her and then we had to sit there and mind ourselves you know and so we were so comfortable she told us she said um such and such is coming over later today when she's in there you go in there and you greet her and you speak to her and you you ask her about herself so mother would teach us how to interact with older people to where we were comfortable and uh she understood we're around kids our age all day at school and we need some mature influence the rest of the day and i think this is one of the things that i think is really a stumbling block for kids is they're around kids their own age all day they come home and they watch television networks that are geared to their age yes and everything is geared to their age and um my mother didn't believe in that she believed in making you to be comfortable and and uh you know skillful at being around maturity she bowed maturity and she demanded it and she watched us i mean if we were if we were in a room with somebody and we started acting immature i mean she'd snap her fingers at us and brother you know we straighten ourselves out and so because of that you know there are people that i can understand that when my husband and i met and we got together and there was the 20-year age difference natural that doesn't look workable and you know what with a lot of most people it might not be workable it was comfortable and i was raised for that and so because of that i didn't feel awkward when i married him and i was around as a 22 year old i was around 40 year olds and 50 year olds were my fellowship and i felt very comfortable in that and that goes back to my mother putting a demand and an expectation on us tony i think one of the greatest things mother did is she expected something out of us very good you know when we went we went to public in the public she expected a certain behavior when we were around people she expected something in pastoring i have so often looked back to how did my mom raise me because the local church is a family so i would i would harp back to how would my mother handle this and i found my answer for pastoring many times and i feed the people the word but then i expected something of them i expect little of them because if you expect little of people you get little if people know that you have a lot of confidence in what's been put in them and what's been put in them will lift them and then you put an expectation on what's been put in them then i then people people grow and develop because you're not doing everything for them as a pastor you're feeding them the answer then you're saying now go do it be a dude and because of that that's really harks back to how i was raised mother expected more of us and she was verbal about that and so i you know for example there have been times in in years past that when i would have a guest minister and i would sit on the platform while they were ministering and i would notice adults getting up too many getting up and moving around and leaving the sanctuary yes ma'am next sunday we're having a talk i expect something more of you than that you knew that we were having a guest and it did not reflect well on you to get up and walk out it didn't reflect good on this congregation it didn't reflect well on me and so uh i we people have to be trained they have to be taught i was i was raised in a home that was taught and tony i understand this as a pastor and as a minister not everyone had the wonderful benefits of the home life i have so i don't assume people know these things right i teach them even the the life skills and the basics of what is appropriate you know paul said how you ought to behave in the house of god that phrase how you ought to behave a lot of people have not even been taught how to behave in their homes uh with with their school teachers i mean they'll sit and argue with their teachers we were that wasn't how we were we were permitted right a mother taught us how we ought to behave but i understood not everyone had the privilege of that teaching so in pastoring in ministry uh you you instruct people and then once they've received instruction uh then if they didn't come up to that expectation then there would be some correction but it's unfair to correct without instruction and my mother was always so fair to us you know before we ever got out of a car if we were going to the grocery store there'd be four of us in the car and she would turn around to us and she'd say when you get in this store you're not touching anything you're not buying anything you're not putting anything apart and you're not asking for anything that way and she said now if you do any of those things in the store when i come back out i'll handle you so it was fair she told us what she expected ahead of time and this is this is what is i think so important not just a family but to the local church teach people what's expected and then it's fair that you know then any kind of further instruction or correction that comes it's fair because you've told the people and you've taught them and then it's honorable and right and i think it's honorable to them to expect some something of them i so appreciate that mother put an expectation on our lives not an unreasonable expectation but she knew that and as pastors and i've been to churches to where sometimes people get in the habit of just sitting back and watching the pastor and letting the pastor perform for the service but uh we've taught our people what happens in this service depends on the church on the pastor and on the congregation and we've taught the role of response and the role of drawing and the role of being hungry you don't just come in here and occupy a seat and and wait for god to do something for you there's an expectation that we have to come in with and it's not just all up to the pastor to do everything but it's up to the construct and train but we can't do the doing for you that's good mother taught us that in life i mean you know and so that gave me a head start but as a minister and as a pastor i understood not everyone got that and i remind our staff that when they're having to handle something maybe of a congregation member i said remember this they did not have your home life you took them from just what you had put in you yes you had to put it in them and then put an expectation on them so good and what one when i um a few years later earlier a few years ago i was able to meet your mother oh yeah you know and i love all the stories you tell about miss caroline they're so awesome and so when when i met her she is the sweetest she lady she is so much fun to be around but i could see extreme fun but that type of parenting makes things fun first of all she always wanted us to bring our friends to the home because then she knew what we were doing and where we were at yes a lot of parents today are trying to get their fam get their children shipped out to somebody else to watch to take care of and with jobs sometimes you know people have to do that but i'm talking about when they are a parent is available to have time with their children they need to be available and mother loved having her kids with her and mother dreaded when we went back to school so many parents my kids go back to school you better change that mindset you're doing something wrong if you can't wait to get your kids out of the house you're parenting wrong and the reason you can't wait to get them out is they're behaving wrong and that goes back to the parent and so my mother i tell you what my mother was the boss of the house and um you know kids would come over to our house and say you know your mom is mean and i go my mom's not mean it's just that they were handled so softly that when they heard authority they thought it was meanness and so my mother was not mean she was plain she was direct and she expected something of us you know one thing my mother said is she said i love you enough to let you hate me what that meant was i don't care whether you like me or not and she said i am not your friend i am your parent i don't care whether you like me i'm not here to be your buddy i'm here to be your parent and i will answer for your parent one day and so because of that uh she was very she was firm with us but as i said she our home was open it was welcome and can i say this we could really live in our home yes uh you know what i mean we could spread clothes around sometimes sometimes you have to be careful that you're not so protecting the home no one can live in it comfortably i'm talking about the household itself in our home then after we're done everybody clean up you know but we could be at home in our home and because of that and mother wanted us to bring our friends she knew where we were at and i tell you what can i can i say this really not have to spank us much she would but we were afraid of her in the sense of she she taught us if your children are not afraid of you and she meant a reverence fear she did not mean she did not mean afraid of getting beatings and stuff i'm not talking about the abuse because that's always wrong but appropriate discipline we we knew we would get it and the thing that made it so that made us walk the line well she was consistent oh my god tony there was never time never time that we did it wrong and she wasn't on us never a time but mother had a system and she says i don't just sit and believe in whipping a kid and whipping a kid and whipping a kid and not getting a change she said if you're if you're doing something discipline wise and it's not changing something don't keep doing that find another system and mother always say this she would she would tell us to do something once and parents will say well i'm going to tell my kids to do something once if they don't do it i'm going to whip them well the thing is you have to understand sometimes kids their attention span is so short they didn't hear it you know they looked like they heard they didn't hear it yes ma'am other would tell us something once and then she would go to us she'd raise her finger one two and on three we were hit if and on two she was popping out of her chair she didn't go one two three one two three what she said one and on one we moved because if she got up out of her chair on two we were getting hit oh so that way we could be in a store and if we were misbehaving she down the aisle she just hold up her fingers she didn't raise her voice she just raised her and brother we all came to attention and there's one thing about it my mother was not a yeller she wasn't a screamer very good she said if a parent is yelling they have they're not being a parent she says i'm the parent i don't have to yell and she said i'm the parent they do what i say and so my mother taught us we don't sit and yell at each other and uh that didn't that didn't go on in the home so we weren't hurrying up trying to get out of the home so to speak as we got older you know yes ma'am so um as you look back and you see all these things tony are so connected to the spiritual life good parenting comes to good faith life you know yes yes walking in the light of the word and uh when when when when children come out of a good system they get a head start but i will say then there are a lot of people that didn't come out of good system right god's made provision for them and their vision is the family of the local church that if you would be if you didn't have the good parenting if you didn't have a dad who was present or a mom who paid attention or you didn't have right treatment in the home god has loaded the local church with people to make up for that be a student i tell our young mothers don't try to be a mother by yourself go to the older women in the church who have succeeded at raising their children and pick their brain god has supplied them as church family for you so that you don't have to live with a with a a a deficiency because of a home life you might have been raised in god makes up for it in the in the in the church life and in the family life very good so important very important that god makes up the difference what you did not receive and should have received rightfully as a child but didn't god makes up for it in the local church and uh and you know that if you'll honor and love the local church and be hungry what you need in life will be made up for through that role and brother tony i have seen so many times some young girls come in they have been abused misused mishandled they've got their mothers now they're single moms of children i say i want you to know you're not left to raise this by yourself but we can't raise your children for you but we are the example come and be this church family be teachable be teacher ask questions be willing to let somebody correct you that's a rescue for you oh man and correction and instruction is a flow of love whom god loves and corrects when people are correcting you they are loving you so you know i i've had people in my when my boys were young in the church i said if you see my boys doing something wrong come tell me because i want to know i want your eyes and ears to help me parent i can't do it all by myself now i'm not talking about people who you know who are who are fault finders and critical and trying to bring down right i'm not talking about those because those people are out of balance but i'm talking about i said if you'll help me watch my kids i'll help you watch your kids you help me raise my i'll help you raise yours and we're not here to tear down each other's kids or families we're here to be watchful because i'm as interested in your children succeeding as i am in my family succeeding we're a church family yes if your children do poorly my church family does poorly and i don't want that and uh if people understand the local church is a family and health in a person's life i'm talking about mental health physical health spiritual health is fed by the family yes isn't it yes ma'am so good it's huge huge huge i want to jump to something that you said earlier and segue in with talking with uh talking about dad hagin you said earlier that you have to teach the congregation how to respond in a service now i've heard your story about when dad hagin came uh in 2010 yeah and it was the last church uh last full meeting that he did the last week-long service he did in the united states the united states yes ma'am he did canada afterwards but and he did other meetings but not week long ours was the last week right and that canada one was only two days and then the power outage issue power outage and yes so it was really the last long one and then we did one service after that in canada and then dad hagem you know until can't meet that i think or whatever he was you know it wasn't but anyways you were talking about responding and i remember you telling the story about when dad hagan was coming uh to the church you took an extended amount of time to talk about responding in church can you talk about that i have i have had pastors to ask me what is the one of the most important things that i can teach my people as a pastor and i tell them this word responding because if people don't respond it doesn't matter that you're a great teacher yes yes it doesn't matter if they don't receive my husband the jumping off point of this was a statement my husband made yes about six months prior to dad hagen coming my husband made one statement that stood up to me and he said the reason more people don't receive more in a service is because they don't respond more and he just made that one statement before the sermon and just went on but that thing lived with me i went to a church uh and preached there right at not long after that and this church when they had praise and worship this congregation i mean they were all in and i looked at i watched this congregation i said hmm i will not let my congregation be outdone yes i go i am going i i i saw that they were responding in a measure to the praise and worship that our congregation didn't respond to and i said no if my congregation's not responding it's partly my fault i've got to teach them yes because see i was raised in the denominational church we weren't taught response we were taught sit there and let the preacher do it all and if we don't have a good service get a new preacher yes and so we weren't taught to even respond and so i had to learn to step over what felt comfortable you know to flesh respond i'm not talking about being louder than the preacher i'm talking about an open receptive heart that is hooked in and making a draw on what the spirit of god and you're not you're not just making a draw on the man you're making a drawing the man uh so many dad hagan when he had been a service and he'd say too many people are pulling on my spirit pull on the holy spirit and that's what you know important that you respond you make a draw on the spirit of god moving in the service and not just on the man make a draw on the gift in the man but don't put a demand on the man like i want a word i want to be called out and dad hagan would say you're going to have to he said too many of you are pulling on my spirit they were pulling on him and to redirect them and so that's part of learning to respond and he would teach us these things yes ma'am so when i came home from that church and i saw that this church was responding better i thought i need to teach my congregation better and so um another thing it's easier for for a person's flesh to respond to praise and worship because they can get their body going you know and stuff yes so it's not just responding to praise and worship you have to teach them to respond to the word the teaching of the word uh some some i've been in other countries where certain cultures are very responsive to preaching but if you teach them they're not responsive you have teach them every flow of the holy ghost must be responded to so we were getting ready to host dad hagan as you said and we were having special prayer meetings and were you know we were praying we recognized the prophet's office on him yes no we you don't pray in a way to control the prophet's office the prophet's office is at the use of of the holy ghost of the father it's not the use of the congregation a congregation shouldn't god is i want him to minister this way or he is god's vessel yes and so i was teaching the people we want to believe god we want to believe god for the full flow of the office and the anointing upon brother hagin to be a manifestation but we're not going to pull on the man we're going to pull on god you know what god has for the services we had spent some time praying i taught about the prophet's office how to cooperate with it but the spirit of god said god said to me in the midst of this prayer time he said you can teach the people you can have the people to pray for the holy ghost to move because we were praying you know we want the holy ghost to move he said you can pray for my spirit to move in a service but if the people don't respond when the spirit starts moving it doesn't matter that you prayed wow wow oh it's not about and see what where we were missing it we were talking to god about him moving it you know the thing is and this was of course your 17 years ago now you see more and more it's not about getting god to move god's god's never stopped moving it's about us recognizing his movement and hooking on with how he's moving yes so this is where i began teaching i took the next a couple of months and i taught on this nothing but responding to the spirit i said now if you don't know what to do in a service watch those who do know yes that's good yes pastor because you know with children when they when of course they're born and their toddlers they don't know how to talk the only reason they learn how to talk is they listen to those who know how to talk they start imitating their words and they don't even really know what the definitions of those words are they just first start using words right time goes by they begin to pick up on definitions and i said some of you who are spiritually young do not try to do not try to respond in a way that you have to you don't have to formulate what response watch those who know how to respond and i said now brother hagin is going to know how to respond he's going to have the highest skill of response because it's coming out of his office watch what he does if he jumps you jump if he shouts amen you shout amen and i said that's not that's not fake it's not artificial it's how you learn jump in with those who know and i said if if dad hagen if he's doing something you know he's preaching along and you see certain ministers on the front row hooking into a flow of the spirit hook in with them okay watch people who know the spirit and as you do and you get around that you get to watch their example then what happens you begin to catch on to what is and what isn't the flow but don't try on your own to start something i tell my dad tell the i tell the young believers you're not skilled enough to start a kind of response from the service what let those who know yeah but but if if if the man of god starts shouting it's it's inappropriate for you to sit there silent with your arms folded that's that's good yes and i said we're not trying to shout the preacher down but hook in pay attention be interested in the holy ghost is doing in that service and don't sit back and try to conduct church the way you were raised we're endeavoring to go further and this man of god is here to take us further let's hook in and go further pay attention glory yeah and so brother tony that changed our church overnight when i taught responding to the holy spirit i taught that it matters that when you're sitting in your seat that you're interested and um you know i say this to god's glory in the sense that preachers who come to the church they say it's so easy to preach here and it's because of that we've taught the people it's not up to the preacher only it's not up to the holy ghost only it's up to your hunger it's up to your interest in what god is doing in a service to hook in with that and so uh pastors who want that we didn't get that because the people just imitated we taught the people what what's the appropriate example to follow don't just follow the loudest person in the room follow the most spiritual person in the room yes and do what they do and over time just like a child you'll catch on you know and you'll be with a flow that maybe seems foreign to you before born to your flesh you know you it when i first saw the move of the spirit my flesh did not understand this my mind didn't but it was right in my spirit this was right and that's what we want to govern you know right to our spirit and then hook in with that and pay attention to those who know god yes so i was i was traveling with brother hagin in this meeting that we're talking about and so from my perspective we started the first song and the first song i believe that meeting was mighty as our god mighty is that and as soon as we hit the chord the crowd and and i'm on my organ so my leslie is loud you know and we you remember how loud it was in the room we brought our speakers big it was big the people were as loud as us i i was like i looked over to marty and i said oh my goodness i wow this is phenomenal because the people were responding so well i'm like i love this song now you know i don't know if i love that song at that moment but well we we in teaching the people to respond we taught them it's you make a decision to respond don't wait for feelings of feeling up you know that you reach the place to where you feel something a response is a choice it's a decision and you can choose to respond when you shake the greeter's hand at the door don't wait for them to start the holy ghost is present hook in and be a blessing and hook in at the very beginning and we practice with that and that's where that book responding to the spirit yes yes it changed our church overnight when i taught them and see our people were willing but yes they were sometimes people are willing that you didn't have to teach them and so i realized that and i'm so thankful for that hagan coming because it it gave us uh that that realization that hey we don't want to miss out on something that this ministry is going to offer us and if we don't spawn right we're going to miss out on things yeah it's so good yeah and so that's something that i'm constantly we constantly remind our people and you know brother brother tony what happens is that people who are not taught in response they if they sit by people who who know how to respond and respond appropriately i'm not talking about inappropriately yes ma'am is an inappropriate response to where you're drawing attention to yourself and i'm not right but those who know how to respond what happens is those who may be new to the church they watch that and they start stepping in without even having been taught they see the example and they come into the flow of proper response very good and expressing the hunger you know yes ma'am that hagan sat in the back with us after one of those services that night and he turned to us and he said miracles and gifts of the spirit don't happen because you prayed for them he said they come because people are hungry it's hunger that god means because people will pray and pray and pray for god to move and then they say well we didn't have the gifts of the spirit and operation like y'all did because we didn't just pray we responded to the spirit when he started moving we didn't sit back and wait for the holy ghost to grab us and throw us into the middle of the of the you know of what he was doing we were ready to to see what he was doing and jump in yeah and that's what my husband meant when he said the reason more people don't receive more in a service is because they don't respond more and i you know as a pastor i've seen people sitting side by side hearing the same sermon one walk out healed one walk out sick and all the response they didn't respond to the word they weren't interested they didn't grab hold of it i'm talking about gravel with their heart with a heart a fervent feet toward them yes yes and so uh when my husband made that statement that was the launching point and then god built it further and it changed our church overnight if you can teach people to respond you can help them when they're in crisis yes but if they don't know how to respond they can have a crisis and as the pastor you're preaching and delivering their answer to them and they're not grabbing it because they're not they're not honoring the word enough to respond to it and grab hold of it you see yes yes ma'am response is everything do you know tony uh anybody that got married got married because there were proper response between a couple yes right doesn't respond properly that that relationship won't go further every people don't realize that to have a in your fellowship with the holy ghost and with god in jesus there has to be proper response that we he will only take us as far as we'll respond and isn't that what it says you know um that submit unto god you know and uh and i've forgotten that the scripture on the top of my head but uh that draw not draw nine and i'll draw mine to you response yes he said unto god draw nine to me i'll draw nine to you so he's telling us we can have as much of them as we is will respond to wow the service it's the same thing i remember something i said to god years ago because i i began endeavoring to practice just living aware of god you know throughout the day keeping my heart turned in the spirit just worshiping god and then keeping my attention turned toward god every day and in in in learning because you have to learn that you know uh a habit of discipline to turn your attention away from everything and get your attention on him and i remember one time years ago i said to god i said god i said some days i sense you your presence stronger than other days and you know we always like it when we can sense his his presence on the way right yes ma'am why is it some days i sent your presence stronger than other days because i was basically accusing him of being uh closer nearer you know what i'm saying it's on his hand if i don't sense it you're not you know i it's it's on your own come on yeah you know how we we do things like that and so i said how come is it that i sent you stronger some days and not and not than i do other days and he said because some days you respond and yield better than other dates i say got it we receive as much power as we yield to we receive as much as we yield to we receive as much healing power as we yield to we receive as much joy and peace as we yield to and yield means responding so what you respond to that's what you're going to get wow response is huge in your faith life and receiving in receiving in a local church it's hugely receiving from a minister when they're under their okay you know dad i'll share this that hagan made this statement um he at different times we would hear him saying a service i operated at 40 percent of the prophet saw the potential of that office tonight the highest i ever heard him and now when we were in the service he might have said higher at another time but i'm talking about yes the highest i ever heard him say is i was able to operate at 70 potential of the prophet's office tonight and then he said then he would say uh on on this one occasion he said the reason we only got to 70 is because that's as far as the congregation would go it's not that's as far as god would anoint it's not as far as the holy ghost would move he said that as far as the people would go with me so if we're going to have greater measures which we are going to have in these last days that's right to boil down to not just a preacher responding to god but all of us responding and hooking in not mentally but with our hearts and um that hagan thankfully was teaching us that right before we left raising up to local churches that flow with the word and the spirit and then we would have those services where he would demonstrate what it looks like to respond to the spirit and if somebody got off he would you know instruct us and you know corral corrales back into the the right flow but thank we just can't let go of all that that light he brought us into we can't let go of this generation and some have i think not emphasized it as much i think as it needs to be emphasized because my husband said by the spirit of god and other ministers in this last day era the fivefold offices will be operating at full potential power the nine manifestations of the spirit operating at full potential power for that to happen we have to respond fully we respond half-heartedly yes ma'am it's gonna have to be wholeheartedness yes and it's going to have to be not just the preacher or the worship team responding it's going to have to be the congregation but there again the congregation has to be taught it goes back to the minister to teach it and people will say well i'm afraid of the holy ghost if you will if you'll become skillful never be afraid of the move of the spirit and then teach people teach the people teach the people glory awesome now um stand with brother hagin is there anything you can share uh you did share something but in the green room when you resp when you're having dinner with him and that that last week of meetings is there something that you can share that stuck out to you well um there are some but there's one story in particular but i don't feel like i can tell it's simply because he told it in a private setting yes ma'am yes yes ma'am i've never heard him tell it publicly so i want to presume that it's appropriate for me to tell it um but kind of tagging on to what um the responding thing i asked dad hagen in the back room i said dad you would often refer to mom and dad goodwin said that their local church was the closest to a new testament church that you had ever been in and i said can you tell me because we weren't in those services you know right yeah and i said can you tell me what their church was like what were their services like what was their church like and i was so blessed he said your church was like this church wow no he could flow you know and um there again it was because people only know what they're taught and they only for what they're trained in and as ministers we cannot get frustrated with the people if we haven't taught and then revisited that because uh people they don't get you know tony full faith doesn't come with one hearing people can't yes once and get it right and you have to say it and say it and paul made the statement in the amplified translation he says it's not irksome to me to write to you the same thing again and again for it is a precaution for your safety yes so he was saying he knew people don't get it with one time of being taught one time of hearing it so we can't get frustrated with the people unless we have had said it and then reset it and reset it and repeated it over and over and listen that hagan didn't give up on us when he was endeavoring us to take us further and you know i will say this and i've said it since david hayden went home to be with the lord he says i'm endeavoring to get the body of christ into a flow of the spirit that we're going to need to be in for these last days well that hagan then he left yeah and i'm going hey we're not only him right but but the thing is he left us the example the instruction if we don't make light of it and don't let go of it and don't treat it lightly and go back and feed it and keep feeding it dad hagan when when dad hagan went home to be with the lord what i did i made a list what was the holy ghost having had hagen to emphasize he was emphasizing don't worry you know how that hang on casting your cares yes that hagan taught walking in love that hagan taught faith dad hagin was teaching about um about you know uh over there in psalms 126 when the lord when the lord turned our captivity we were like then that framed he was taught he was teaching us how to respond with with joy the joy flow yes so i made a list of all these and i go where he left off is where i take was where i pick up and so many times people had the mentality that where he left off when he left to heaven he took it with him he did not he left us instruction for our future so that we would know the direction to take when he was no longer here and that's what that prophet's voice was he was seeing with with binoculars into the future when he wouldn't be here and he was telling us directing us what to feed on you know and paul made the statement he says when i leave ravenous wolves are going to come in and they're going to and they're going to make wreak havoc in the church yes ma'am but he was giving people instruction that if they wouldn't if they wouldn't forget what paul was teaching them that didn't have to happen yes dad hagan if people will go back and pay attention to what god was saying through the prophet of god for the last days then we have our we know what to continue in and i've had ministers come in and say you know this feels like being in a dad hagan meeting in your church i said yes because we didn't switch flows yeah he set the flow for us and then we continue in that we weren't looking for a new flow because the man left yes so good that was the flow you know and um so anyway and i'm not magnifying the man i just know that right gave direction for the body of christ through the leading voices yes so good i wasn't looking for something fresh or new i realized that dad hagan the light he gave was setting he was he was setting paths for us to walk on and so that's why we just kept preaching what did what was that again preaching that's what we're going to preach you know students be a good student pay attention be a good student you know whenever i i went to first grade and i learned the alphabet i didn't say okay i'm out of first grade i'ma chuck the alphabet now no the outfit the first great alphabet got me to second grade reading yeah it's built upon and so what dad hagin left us was not to be set aside it's to be built upon and go further into what god has for this era yes and i had someone in box me uh there was can you tell who my spiritual father was and who i love say it again and can you tell who my spiritual father who i love it's clear well because that's what a father hope that's the role in the place a father should hold in your life there should be a regard that you pay attention i was a student and uh i paid attention to what they taught and uh they helped me with my future yes so good i had someone message me um a few days ago and they said the thing i love about pastor nancy is that she keeps the stories of brother hagin alive and of course you're not the only one but you keep the revelations going and it's so adamant and well it i'm not telling stories to tell stories i'm telling stories because answers are in the stories yeah and just like the woman with the issue of blood people are still getting healed of her testimony why would not harp back the word recorded it for eternity because answers and help were in her story just because the person has gone doesn't mean the revelation the help is gone if we will retell these stories we find our answer in the stories and so i i take i take personal ownership in the sense of dad hagan's stories because they they held answers for my life and they still do i mean i go back to my husband's i mean he was my bible school i go back and i find help for my life in those stories i don't have to go out and blaze my own trail apart from the help they gave me if i carry what they put in us right yeah i i i cut down the risk of failure because i'm moving ahead with answers yes i'm moving ahead with with the revelation that they won dad hagin made a statement it's sobering and he said some revelations nearly cost me my life wow statement and then he then he explained it and he's then he said after that he said that that is i went down to death's door before i learned the revelation we'll see if we'll pay attention we don't have to go down to almost this door before we learn something yeah and that's why i retell the stories and things because all those those although those things happen to him they were for us for us yes happened to him his book i believe in visions those visions were given to him but they were given for our benefit as well yes ma'am i mean and and if we say well they're not here anymore well paul's not here anymore what you're doing he wrote right no matthew mark luke and john aren't here anymore we don't set aside these revelations they are they are launching pads for us to go further and dad hagan used to tell us he said you ought to go further than i ever went right we can't do that unless we at least start out you know jesus said the works that i do show you do also meaning you're not going to put aside my works you're going to have to be able to do what i do and then greater works also will come so if we can't equal dad hagan we're not going further you know we've got abel uh jesus said the works that i do you shall do also we ought to be able because of these pioneers not just dad hagan but dr sumrall you know the ong lakes and the and the smith wiggles we've got to be able to do their works then we're ready to go further right yes ma'am don't do your work by setting aside the revelations that they that they received i wanted the medical industry they don't set aside the scientific findings of previous doctors right they don't say well this generation didn't find the smallpox vaccine so we're going to throw it out and let our they don't they build on it the the body of christ we have to uh we have to go and know what what are what revelations because uh revelation is progressive in the sense of further you know the word is progressive this new testament brings us further life than the old testament well even so uh that the like dad hagan have we can't let that slip that like gave to us so we can go further but we have to not let slip what we already have yes so good pastor let me ask you this question and we're going to segue to dr defrane um over the last 35 years of all the materials you you read of dad hagen which which book or which teaching do you refer back to the most one of my favorite books and i had carried it for years was the triumphant church um yes hope church yes because it it the authority of that you know i read them all right and you have all covers all versions um that the the faith bible study course which is the book yes that's i go back to a lot that i believe in visions i go back to a lot but i can tell you one that their ministry produced after his homegoing and i am so grateful for tongues on the upper room oh yeah songs beyond the upper room but and that was taken off of the services i believe a lot of them were preached in the full gospel businessmen meetings wow and he talks and especially the latter half the first half of the book he's talking about the importance of being filled with the holy ghost because he was dealing with a lot of people who had come out of churches that weren't spirit-filled churches so he was establishing the the words truth in that but the last half especially he's dealing a lot with the last days and uh you know uh flowing with the spirit and the keys to his success you know yes ma'am talking about when when ministers would ask him what did you attribute your success success to he says i prayed in the spirit i prayed and in that book it's it's like i said all of it's wonderful but especially the the the the last portion the last half or so that speaks specifically to the era that we're in and uh it's wonderful material those books oh the books oh i am actually reading triumphant church right now so it's uh it's so it's so for right now for exactly right now it's so good for right now so that we think right and believe right in line with because uh circumstances if they come to try to change your doctrine right yeah there we go you have to um i've seen people change their doctrine based on crisis and tragedy that came and they started adjusting their doctrine so um those kinds of books anchor us so that circumstances that we don't forget we are satan's master we don't forget that we are not trying to win we are exercising victory you know these guys i know if you weren't here right now i'd be like flying around this room right now so i know you're jumping jumping up yes it's again it thrills you these things thrill does yes it does so when let's jump over to dr ed dufresne your husband when you think of dr defraying what do you think of your most common thoughts um the thing that stands out so much what a man yeah uh was his keenness in the things of the spirit and his keenness in the anointing yes it was it was remarkable to sit back and watch it worth it you know i told different stories because there were so many dan hagen no doubt had he taught he shared many experiences there probably likely were many experiences he didn't share right because of the nature of him or whatever my husband was the same way there were some experiences he told but there were many i know that he didn't and i'll give you an example uh one night we were we were laying in bed and i i i was i was laying there reading it now the corner of my eye i was on the left side of the bed and i i kind of for a moment it seemed like somebody walked past me on the left side but i looked and i didn't see anything but it was like out of the corner of my eye i saw like somebody walked by and that happened a couple of times you know a couple nights in a row yeah and i turned it finally because i was real careful i don't want to i don't want to be unsound i don't believe in conjuring up to so that you look spiritual that stuff will that stuff will lead you into error to try to conjure up that you're seeing something and i don't know right i don't want to look unsound and and you know and so because he knew so much and i knew so little i was very slow to say something because i didn't want to re i didn't want to spill out ignorance you know and so after a couple of nights this has happened and i turned to him and i said i don't know what it is but i said it seems like that i'm catching a glimpse of somebody walking by but when i turn and look they're not there i said i wonder is that an angel or something he says oh yeah he said there's been an angel standing there for three weeks my god i thought i'm making some progress here that i promoted this and he's and he's been for three weeks and never said a thing but that was very typical of him all more in the spirit he saw lots of angels and in all honesty i don't know dad hagan might have seen a lot of angels i don't know but he didn't tell of a lot of of everything he might have seen but my husband when he referred he he saw more angels than anybody i'd ever heard of and next to william branham now branham saw from my understanding it's like the same angel that kept showing up in his service right my husband would see multiple multiples and multitudes at times yes but i but the thing is is he didn't tell it a lot because he wasn't trying to impress people with that or try to be spiritual he only told it when it was necessary or when he could tell it so that's one of the reasons i believe god trusted him with so many supernatural spiritual experiences is because he handled them honorably he didn't try to uh build his ministry visibility so to speak by impressing people with experiences and the experiences spiritual experiences have to be handled honorably there can't be an intent or a motive with it to try to get visibility because i had this exact know what i mean so i think i i just know that that the times that i would perceive something and say it to him he was already way out ahead of me on that point and so it was it was an honor to live with someone it's an honor to live with someone spiritual yes it's an honor what what did dr dufresne's private prayer life look like how was his flow what was his flow like well let me say i wouldn't say that you would see segments of days that he would take because i would be asleep he would be asleep and he would be praying in the spirit you would hear him praying in his sleep he was not even awake but his spirit and he would not be awake he would be i'd say uh how'd you sleep last night good did you wake up any no i didn't wake no but i i was laying in bed hearing him pray in the spirit and then he was an early morning guy you know the morning the moment his eyes opened his feet touched the floor now me you know i i'm not up early morning and when i get up i get up moving one part at a time you know everything moved at once with him and so he would get up uh normally around four anywhere between four to five thirty yes ma'am on travels you know and what time he got to bed but he would get up and he would go and he'd be praying in the spirit and reading his bible when he got up and he prayed all throughout the day in the holy ghost you know and it was an ongoing and really um it's good to have goals of when you're going to read your bible and and pray and things there's times that you go aside and that's perfectly appropriate but those goals are to lead us to a lifestyle of fellowship very good yes we're not we're not just following the clock because you can clock in reading a certain amount of chapters in the bible but your heart never engaged so well right no it's about your heart getting engaged and the thing is just keep your heart connected all day long and then every opportunity feed on the word every opportunity listen to cds or you know watch something on you know a sermon on youtube or whatever we have so much accessible to us but it's not so much about segments of time it's about a life in the spirit it's not just about time in this times in the spirit about our life in the spirit and so my husband i he he he did that you know and before services he would uh if he was to preach and usually services were at seven o'clock uh you know when he was on the road and by two o'clock two to two thirty he'd be in his hotel room he would take a short nap um you know maybe 30 minutes or an hour at tops and he would uh be meditating on the sermon he was going to preach and have his bible open he'd have it laying on his chest and praying in the holy ghost he did a lot of praying in the spirit not because out of the prophet's office you speak much by sudden inspiration and because of that you need your spirit ready not just your sermon ready very good yes ma'am and so praying in spirit uh kept him to where there was much ministering under sudden inspiration and not just a a a prepared sermon and nothing wrong with a prepared sermon but ed flo uh even anything he was prepared had inspiration to it yes you know he did not and he didn't have the you know brother tony i laid out all my my my preaching notes from pastoring all these years i have them in you know notebooks and they filled up an eight-foot table into it's just stacks and i go my life is laying on that table right there you know and i laid out my husband's and he had four little notebooks that i had very few sermons because he wrote so few of them down he would start with once there would be maybe a few scriptures that god would give him and then he would put a tab in his bible that would lead him to the next verses so he just keep going to the next tab but he he wasn't one to formally write out his his sermons more so like i do you know i'm yes that teacher that i i do that i don't always stay with it right i love what i heard a preacher say he said prepare your sermon as though there is no holy ghost and then preach it like that's all there is is the holy one thank you hear your sermon but don't don't treat your sermon like it is your guide the holy ghost of your guide and so if you stay with your sermon fine but if you if the holy ghost veers off beers into something else do that and my husband did that and that's why he kept praying throughout the day because he knew that his ministry was most effective not just in delivering a sermon but under sudden inspiration so good pastor i've never seen a more supportive man husband in ministry than dr dufresne he was more excited to be in your morning meetings to than to be in his nightly meetings preaching oh it's a head scratcher to me i tell you what tony um my husband he he taught he preached but his teaching had a that you know it was more a preaching teaching you know yeah there were those times that it might be a little bit more straight of a teaching flow but he was more of a preacher teacher and what he really valued was the teacher's office he loved great admiration for the teacher's office and he saw that the teaching that i occupy the teaching office and he valued that so much and he would say to me you know he said when i first saw that teaching gift on you he says i committed to god with the holy ghost in me we will help her develop that and you can only do that when you are a man who is secure you know he he never he never felt threatened because and i will say this tony it goes both ways i never i never tried to make him feel like i was his equal i knew i was nowhere near his equal so i was trying to prove something so he knew i wasn't competing you know if you if if i would have been dogging him would you let me preach i never asked him never once did i ever let me preach a service he would say you preached i said no you preach you know and we would prefer one another but he was he was secure he realized but that's when you when you when you develop in your spirit you realize this isn't about you this is about helping people and he loved the teaching office and so that's what he valued that that's the flow he valued in my life he valued that teaching office but let me tell you i would have pastors you know after service they would say you know doc she she did a good job teaching this morning and when they did that i made sure that the devil was not going to take words and weaken my marriage and i would say pastor this man is my bible school anything i know and what it came through this man and my spiritual father dad hagan no i no teaching that you heard came just solely from me this man is my bible school so because i pointed back and honored what his voice was in my life he didn't feel like he had to defend himself so it's a two-way thing that it has to be handled rightly in a marriage and i wasn't just certainly trying to make him feel good about himself it was the truth i was well when i like i said on i'd only been saved three years when i married him i'd never heard of the fivefold ministry wow been in the ministry almost 20 years so i was just running to try to catch up and i felt that way my whole life and i still feel that way that i'm still just trying to try to catch up with those who have gone in front of us right yes but um it but two i did not i did not compete with him because i know i'm not trying to show myself equal i'm not trying to equal him i want to obey what god's put in me and i'm not trying to to look to the people as though i have as much in me as in him i don't have you know no i don't have anymore so good yeah i remember um one of the last times i picked him up from san diego airport you know he would we would drop you know i would drive and of course when i get in the car you know we get in the highway and he said i like the way you drive i said thank you doctor he said yeah because you know i'm like i know doctor likes to get going so i'm gonna get on the edge of the at the top of the speed limit and get get him going but but one of our conversations at one of our last conversations he said we were passing we were getting towards the end of the of our of our uh conversation and we were like passing california oaks road and so we were kind of getting home and he said the thing i love about and he was bragging about your teaching gift and your ministry gift we were just talking about that for for about an hour and he said the thing that i loved a thing i love about her teaching gift is she's a revelation teacher i love when she teaches it was so awesome to hear him say that um well i i will say this tony because of being trained under him he taught me that you take your cues from the spirit of what you're to teach on you don't just come up with a good sermon and come up with a good topic i always look to my spirit about what's holy ghost what what direction do i take in this service yes one of so so i taught i didn't just pull go and pull out a sermon i always look to my spirit to to lead me in in in the direction of taking a service always i didn't just preach a sermon that i liked or a sermon i had spent a lot of time on i always and that was because of his teaching so i knew teach by the spirit and that's what he would say he said you teach by the spirit right but that's what he taught us that's what that did that's what we sat under one of the things that helped me so much that he made a statement it would help people especially if they stand in the prophet's office you know because like i said a prophet is going to teach more about his son inspiration sometimes things will come up and and ed would say this he says if i don't know have clear direction on which way to teach and minister in a service he said i just go with the first thing that comes to me when i hit the pulpit wow now that's huge that's huge because i had many many sermons but it just i when i would go to preach sometimes it didn't seem like any particular sermon stood out to me none of them seemed quickened to me yes no and i it's like it's got to have that quickening on it it's got to have that that life it starts bubbling up but this is the direction to go and if i didn't have that i would take my time when i got in the pulpit i wouldn't just start out just in any old direction that's what he told me get up and the first thing that comes out of your spirit sometimes you might just start talking about a testimony follow that don't try to get back onto a sermon outline follow what came out of your spirit if there was not a clear direction it's because the clarity is going to come when you hit the pulpit and that's you have to you have to do that by faith god wants you to minister by faith that doesn't mean lack of preparation yes ma'am but you're prepared but there were many times you could prepare a sermon but you go this thing just isn't clicking it you know it doesn't like this is the direction so yes then direction will come when you hit the pulpit and i learned this if god doesn't give me a sermon you know sometimes you'll be preparing and touching a lot on the road and i go i don't have any real direction i've i kind of learned this if god didn't give me a sermon it must mean i already have it i've got it in the pulpit and if i'll just get my tongue hooked it'll draw that sermon out and so that's what it appreciated but he taught he taught me that you know yes you said now get your tongue hooked up uh how do you get your tongue hooked up is it well bring in the holy ghost for one thing we'll just turn that to your spirit but another thing sometimes especially in a church that i it was new to me just this is just the way for me i noticed it yes ma'am the people will sometimes if they don't know you you know they're they're um they're not going to probably jump in full you full-footed right if they don't know you right yeah you use wisdom you you know they not i'm not saying they held back or anything but when people know it's easier for them to hook on and for you to go you know just take off in a circle yes ma'am but what i would do is i would i would get up and i would tell a testimony i would tell something that god did for my husband or for me to give them a to get my tongue start hooking up to my heart i would tell something god did yeah and then to gives the people a little bit of a chance to get to know us if you tell them a little bit about you personally i mean bob just did for us this week and all of a sudden you become personal and intimate to them even though they don't know you very good yeah something of your personal life to them so that's what i would do to help my if i especially if i was in a new place and if i didn't quite know the flow yet at least i'm not going to take off on a direction i'm going to kind of tap into the waters and see this it doesn't seem to hit when i start talking about this you know and um you just so good yeah it takes practice you know you you just gotta you have to be you can't be spiritual it's difficult to be a person of the spirit unless you're around people of the spirit okay you have to be around these things because these things are caught even the word doesn't spell out certain things of course there's certain parameters the holy ghost always works within the confines of the word within the guidelines of the word always yes yes but some of these things uh you know jesus had nowhere in the scripture that told him when the blind man came make clay out of the spittle and put it on his eyes that was the leading of the spirit yes ma'am he did that well when you're around people who know the spirit then you're able to observe them and you will pick up the ways of the spirit by being people around being around people of the spirit if you you cannot be keen in the spirit primarily normally unless you're around people who know the spirit because these things are caught yes and this is what dad hagen was endeavoring especially to bring us over my husband always had that always ministry brother tony always always yes ma'am my husband hooked up with dad hagen in 1971. so dad hagen you know was his example all these years before i you know i even came up into the picture in the 80s so if you're going to be spiritual you have to be around people who know the spirit i want to ask you something real quick about your teaching ministry and then uh move on to dr lester sumrall then we'll be done um this is one thing that you know watching you the last nine years that you do so well is when you're teaching when you're when the holy spirit has you teaching on something and you're making it a point sometimes you get to a part in your teaching where you just know to stay and start digging into that when you're doing that is is it like examples are coming to you as you're doing it or you already have it already lined up they're coming they're coming examples come and sometimes you can get to a point in your sermon and you'll sense an unction a particular on that when that ride that function don't go to your next point stay with the unction as long as the unction is there you can sometimes sense a there needs to be an emphasis of this you know there's there and examples are coming dad hagan used to call them rabbit trails yes okay oh and that's that's what i that's what i do sometimes brother tony i will have it clear in my heart i need to go a certain direction i have a certain sermon and i don't even get off the first two points because as i'm there the anointing starts flowing examples start coming things i haven't thought of in years were kind of a storyteller i like telling stories because it paints pictures i understand it better i grab it when someone tells it in a story you know um and so and those stories are windows for people it helps them see into truth clearer and so i know for me because when i first got when i first got married to it i knew so little of the word dad hagan's simplicity and stories i got it he wasn't speaking over my head right so it's always been my goal there again who you sit under helps you in your in your style a little bit because what helped you will is what you'll replicate you know yes so that's always been my goal because i've been in services where i go i don't understand what this person's talking about i i don't get it i don't know i must not know the word i don't know what people are talking about and i i know i didn't like that feeling for me and i don't want to leave that feeling for people yes very good and you know dad hagan said that jesus told him one time and this is i love this because jesus told him one time if you hear a sermon that's hard to understand complicated and hard to understand he said it did not come from me wow because i was dealing in my earthly ministry i was dealing with people many were uneducated some were farmers they were they were sheep herders and he said i used examples of the everyday man because that's who i was ministering to so he said so if you hear a sermon that's difficult and hard to understand he said it didn't come from me so i know that i've left the anointing and i've left the leading of the spirit if i am in a complicated wordy tangled up sermon you know and that's why yes help a lot to keep the simplicity and to illustrate to people because it doesn't matter that people were impressed with it with a sermon if they didn't understand it i'm not i don't my goal is not to impress my goal is give them sheep food cheap food cheap food and not all some some it might be impressive food but it's not sheep food i want i want them i want their lives to to get answers and help so i want to keep it simple and my goal the older i get is my goal is simplification wow and simple and repetitive repetitive faith comes by hearing and i will you've heard me in our congregation i will tell over and over the same stories to our congregation because i don't care that you've heard it you need it and if you tell it it'll keep you from keep you from a misstep possibly so good now before uh we segue to dr lester sumrall can i ask you um let's say of the last 100 years who's who is your favorite or even before that who is your favorite man or woman of god you have a favorite that you like to uh read on you admire different ones for different reasons okay different ones bring different things to your life the thing about dad hagin and people may say well you talk about him too much you know i talk about my own parents how do you not how do you leave out of the conversation people who shake you you know yeah yeah honor issue and it's not a magnifying of man but it is realizing that these people are examples what i loved if that hagan was the balance the balance yes he was balanced all the way across the board and so many in in the different arenas of life and i i liked dad hagen because i'm not a hot personally i'm not high strung i'm pretty like even keel you know get way up here and wait down you know i'm not like this yes my husband was a little bit more high strung high energy i'm a little bit more even tempered and even energy right and dead space suited me you know i yes because i i saw i saw just a consistency just a balance that nothing was uh nothing was ever up here down here inappropriate you know um you felt safe you felt safe dr sumrall the boldness and the authority oh i loved the bowman and the authority the man commanded i loved how he would make a statement and just all of us would get our height nailed to the wall you know good a way that felt good a way that felt parental the authority he walked in was so safe and secure for him very good and no matter what would happen if i could at least main con maintain contact with this man i had contact to safety in the sense of you you felt you had someone to to draw on for your for your own sake keeping in that in that sense then of course you have the smith wigglesworth you know this this man with this faith that just made you feel like you were backslidden every time you read his books you know yes what about john g lake who brought oh my goodness the men that i admire the people that i admire that i find that feed me were men of the word in the spirit they were they were they were men to me the men who linger most in the forefront of church history are those who were not just good preachers they were men of the spirit yes they knew the word they knew the spirit and there was a there was a healthy balance in their lives um because you can have great sermonizers you know there are many many many men that really they're they they preach wonderful sermons but without the um without the the walk of the the life and the spirit i don't think remember them as long right and this is what this is what people really get hungry for is this word and the spirit that you know people people can realize you know if if they're if they're if they they only become skillful with the the letter of the law you know and they're and they're not skillful in the word spirit in the flow of the spirit things start the letter of the law kills it dries up by itself you know the water of the spirit keeps everything high juices you know so to speak yes ma'am there are people that recognize hey i know the word but there's something missing well many takes the spirit you know and then if you don't have the balance of the word of course the spirit can people can get off and their understanding the holy ghost doesn't get off people can get off and their understanding of the spirit without this balance of the word and that's what dad hagin brought us and john g lake brought us and said this they were men of the word and the spirit and these are the ones that stand out to me that feed me that i keep continually going back to faith people you know that yes because it takes that if we diminish the topic of faith if we diminish the force of faith in the body of christ what happens you cannot move with the spirit you have to move with the spirit by faith and if this is this is one of the things why the faith message is so important that it must still be emphasized yes because you can't flow with the gifts of the spirit it takes faith you can't be a future uh that that has an option okay without without faith it faith is behind all this and if not you just you just become good at delivering a sermon and uh we need more than just delivering a sermon we has to have the anointing on it it's the anointing that destroys the yoke not the sermon it's very good on the on the word that destroys the yoke these are the these are the ones that that have stood out to me you know and of course i always appreciate different ones like maria luber theater just just simply because can you imagine in the 1800s when when women you know didn't have the right to vote in the opposition i'm i i don't believe in i i'm not a i i i'm very careful about you know how women are presented in ministry because yeah the thing is is that it's not about being a woman in ministry i think that's a mistake to focus on that it's a very good thing because the word gets rid of all distinctions in in christ there's neither dune or gentile there's neither male nor female we got to get rid of those addictions and in pastoring i'll get right and that's where you get into racial issues get rid of it doesn't matter these are our natural natural carnal things that do not that are not to occupy our attention very good yes pastor and so as a woman as as a woman who pastors the way i did that i ignored that i was a woman i didn't get up and try to state that i'm a woman and bring attention to it it's the anointing that destroys the yoke that's what people need so if you focus on that but yet then i do have an appreciation for these women years ago who would have taken really some big hits by society right very yes no even their own families opposed them some of them because it was not you know they they just they were they they paid the way for us and so i have a real regard and respect for that um but not because i'm a woman just because of what they faced to obey god yes ma'am maria would work that or face a lot obey god but you know what men faced a lot to obey god right you know all people you're gonna face something to obey god and so uh but i do i do appreciate these pioneers of faith and um i think it's appropriate to honor them by holding to what they brought us and uh and realizing none of us got where we're at without them well i love your story about um and this will be the last thing i love your story actually i got two things and we're done i love your story about how god told you because you honored um uh the men you know you can tell the story by the way yeah um i haven't thought of that one in a while tommy um god told me um two and a half years before it died yes now we're moving into a home a new home for us and on move-in day god said to me you don't want to be here four years well i didn't tell that to ed you know when they're carrying furniture that's not the time to tell them hey wisdom can you see we're gonna and um you know i wasn't looking to move again but that's yes ma'am because i just tucked that away in my heart at the two and a half year mark my husband went home to be with the lord so now we're half away from that four year mark yes and uh um so just weeks after ed died god said to me remember i told you you'd only be in this house for years i said yes i remember that i'm trying to forget that but yes i do remember that and so it was uh five months later uh that i saw that the bible school students took a tour of sister amy some pearson's home that's about 15 minutes away from my current home and so i'm going through that home not really thinking anything about it and all of a sudden my spirit started getting thrilled and you know when your spirit starts getting thrilled and i turned to morgan my daughter-in-law and i said i would sure like to have this house but i was thinking for ministers right it's just a place maybe they could come and have a time of refreshing and stuff and so anyway so about two weeks after touring the house for the first time god said i'm going to tell you about the next house and he began to describe it he said it's a white house it's by the water he said the doors are open to the outside you know the the main living room open to the outside and then he said it's secluded so he said that to me on a thursday night the next night he came in in my bedroom the same again and says i'm going to tell you about your next house and he gave me the exact same list but he added one thing the next thing he said he said amy simply pearson's home and i go oh no oh no oh no and a part of me wanted it in the sense of i appreciate the history of it right no the body of christ doesn't have a lot of places of history you know especially especially we have very little history right and i had i had a respect for it out of because of the history but i thought oh my goodness i'm in the middle of you know there were a lot of projects that we were finishing after it's homegoing it's just taking on that that was just it needs a it needs to be fully renovated and so um it surprised me i thought he was just gonna give me a home done you know what i lived in was wonderful it's fabulous i'll it is yeah right and so anyway so um you know that then i came into agreement you know when your mind comes down and your heart hooks in and you get into agreement and so after i bought the home and god ain't enabled me for the first time ever paid paid cash for the homewood and i'd never done that and so it was right but after that i said to god one day i said god you know i've had a lot of conversations with different people there were different people who tried to buy this home and the the foursquare uh denomination are the ones who owned it and they would not sell it to different ones and i said you know just to think that you put it on reserve and held it for me that blesses me i appreciate that and i was raised my parents bought a historical home they had a lovely home they renovated it raised in that so i always had an appreciation for history and renovation never frightened me because i saw my parents do it yes so um so i said to god i i so appreciate that you thought of me thank you for thinking of me when really there's a lot of people who would have liked to have had the home and i said i appreciate that you thought of me and when i said that he said because of your honor for faith pioneers of the past he said what you honor you get to participate now that's why i gave you the home because of your honor for the faith time years of the past see if we don't if if we don't let them hold much of a place in our life we won't get much of what they gave glory yeah and so um that goes in line and i don't know if we have time if i can tell you maybe two minutes please go no take your time brother norville hayes when god said to me uh right before ed went home with the lord he said we have brother normal in your church yes but i didn't sense to contact him so uh not long after ed died god said uh excuse me brother norville called me and said i'm coming to california uh i would be available i said brother norville i would love to have you because i remembered especially it wasn't i would have had him if god hadn't said anything but it made it especially dear that god it showed me god had something in mind for us wow and so you know yourself you got to you got to to be with him yes i did for the next four years he came i believe it was four years yes you're right uh right after he went home to be with the lord i was reading and i was listening to his sermons on youtube i was reading and in the book was something that jesus said to him on worship and i was i had it in my heart to preach that i said to morgan i said you know we need to be mindful that when brother norvel left to go to heaven somebody needs to pick up the revelations that he brought we need to make sure those don't slip and i said it seems to me god is prompting me about those and not i'm not talking about his sermons per se i'm talking about what jesus said to him yes what did you say to him that's what we don't want lost right and so uh in this one particular book on worship was about what jesus had said to him and i was getting ready to do a camp meeting that night i started camp meeting in another church and i was going to preach what jesus said to him right i'm getting ready i'd already written out you know the sermon outlining what jesus had said and i'm getting ready for the service and about an hour and a half before the service i look up and there's an angel standing in the room now there again it i caught glimpse out of it out of my eye my husband clean it he had the discerning the spirits where he could tell you what they were wearing and everything me i sense when they're there i i get a glimpse of it and then it's more about knowledge i know where they're standing i know what they're doing and i know what they're saying so that you know that's how it functions through me differently than with the way it did my husband wow i caught a glimpse of something moving in the room and when i looked there i knew there's an angel standing there so i got you know when god when when an experience happens like that you have to respond okay like it's not there you i responded you always have to respond so i went over and i stood right in front of where i knew that angel was and i held up my hands in front of an angel and i said i recognize you're here what is it that you've come to bring see he's not just coming so i can say he came he's not so i can feel something he came for a purpose and so i said what is it that you came for and he said to me and i'm now let me think of the exact wording he says i have come to impart the utterance for the revelation given normal haze wow yep that's all he said to me and so now i knew that the anointing to deliver that that it wasn't just going to be my sermon it was going to be a divine entrance that there would be an anointing on that to deliver what jesus had taught brother norville then after that angel walked out of the room i went and i sat back down at the desk i was putting on my makeup which can be a long ordeal i'm sitting there putting it on and the holy ghost starts speaking to me and he said because of your honor for brother norville in his latter days he said i have now allowed or god is allowing you to be a steward of that revelation that he brought listen to this god said to me many will honor a man of god when they're at the peak in the climax of their ministry but he said if they won't honor him at the end of his life they're not honorable enough to carry the revelation or to handle the level oh god yes what he's talking about is we don't just it's right to honor a man when he's at the peak of his ministry but don't forget god's man that's what god was saying just because they're older and their bodies don't perform the same the revelation and the light in them and this is why i believe it that's why with elijah and elijah elijah said if you see me when i go oh yeah it matters how we treat the man of god when it's time for them to go what matters and that's what god was saying to me because you honored him at the time of his going that's why i'm entrusting you with the revelation i gave him to continue on in delivering that revelation and i'm so grateful god god said to me have brother norville and i responded to that because god was looking he's wanting to download these revelations to the next operation so that these aren't lost yes ma'am so people need to realize it's not just about when people are on the forefront that they need to be honored if they had been a vessel and dr sumrall was a man who who did this with yes there were no i'm trying to think of the name right now and i can't think of it there was a precious man of god and he had gotten off toward the end and some things and in his ministry i say people said he got off i don't know right had said he'd gotten off and so he wasn't really invited to minister much and he ended up dying alone he ended up dying his in a bad physical condition and dr sumrall honored that god once used this man if this man was crippled over with arthritis his body was bowed over at the waist that when he was sitting in a chair he was really his chest was down on his knees he was so crippled over with arthritis and dr sumrall went and visited him he said and this preacher said no one will come and visit me because you know yes ma'am anyway dr sumrall came and visited dr sumrall said i got down on my belly and i looked up at the man i listened to him for hour after hour because he honored and um this is what yes we need to honor those that god has used they're precious people yes ma'am but we also honor the revelation and not let this i'm so grateful that god allowed me to be around um brother norville at the end to be reminded of these things you know people said to him because we need him going forward that's the important thing we need we need him yes ma'am and um and it's it's it just pays us to be honorable doesn't it it does i i can't say thank you enough pastor t for your example in showing us that i was um of course when i came here in 2003 brother hagin that was my first time seeing um for me seeing that type of that level of honor not just the revelations not just uh you know the services but but even just loving doctor dad hagen the way you and doctor did and treated him so well and then me coming here and seeing how all the men and women of god who come how well you treat them and have a regard for them is such a great example and and being able to be with brother norville for almost eight weeks of my life because of you know your your your uh care and honor for him and how we how we were able to serve him it's it's it's the next level so i just want to thank you for that we just know this we don't go anywhere god takes us alone yes we need men and that help and speak into our lives and we we have to remember nobody got anywhere alone we we have to we have to acknowledge that and it's right to acknowledge that and remember that you know yes ma'am we always remember that someone else let us in their vineyard you know and and we got to eat of the fruit of their life and we need to remember that that this is we don't have our own vineyard by ourselves someone led us in their vineyard of revelation and uh yeah can i ask you one more question and we're done is that okay how do you choose your friendships the friendships you have in your life the fellowship that you have well the word talks about that we are fitly joined together and there are some people that you just fit with and you know that the richest fellowship is going to be with those who love what you love the word and um what how how does what's the what's the emphasis that god has for my life right okay emphasizing the same things um you know um there's fellowship you can have with a lot of different people but i'm talking about a voice into your life yes ma'am it's going to be with somebody who who we're we're feeding the same direction you know yes no we've sat under the same spiritual diet good okay okay stance yes ma'am and um thankfully i i had the best of both worlds i love that i've gotten the pastor but i love that i've gotten to be on the road and meet so many pastors and there's just people you can just tell there's a divine connection and when there's a divine connection i protect it i don't treat that lightly i don't treat it as though it can be dismissed i recognize those who are divine connection in my life and um i nurture those connections yes ma'am i keep them tight i don't you know in a car you can have something that's loosely connected the car won't run right even though it's connected it's loose right and i i know this that you have to have somebody that speaks into your life you have to know who that is and keep that connection tight their divine connections and they fit and don't let anyone get you offended with your connection don't take offense with your connection yes ma'am because if god puts you together you're not authorized to unhook that and um i just recognize who they are and i made a decision i'm not gonna let anybody offend me you know i would have it offense is a decision and so the only way i would break that connections get broken and many times is through offense or neglect you know but when you are something and and that doesn't mean that we're always budding around together you know but those divine connections it's like you pick up where you left off last time and you hadn't seen each other for six months but it's just there and you're and and it and it nourishes the anointing on your life right people who who uh nourish your life and nurse the anointing on your life in the call that's who yeah that's who i look to can i say this i don't know if you have something but when i was um when i was getting up here to drive up here that healing anointing came in my hand yes and i recognize that when that happens it's because god is you know the word of knowledge is going to go into operation for people so there's somebody it goes right down the neck down to the shoulder it seems to me more than a it's not it's more than a tight muscle it's been an injury area so if you're watching or you may be i don't know if they can watch this later if they're watching it they will watch it later too it doesn't matter what time it's aired and if you spot when it was live because these words are pertinent to anyone who will receive them so just you know make a demand on that and just know just whoever that is you just i receive that and then somebody in there in there it seems to me it's their right knee and it seems to me that it's an it possibly a knee replacement that has been there and it caused them a lot of a lot of suffering and god god is god is dealing with that now now when i say he's dealing with that now i don't neces i don't know if he's i'm not saying he's giving them a brand new knee he could touch that knee replacement make that thing work like yes no make it work beautifully so i'm just saying he's working on that so that that need it's not i don't really care and we don't care how he does it just as long as we receive our help right yes ma'am somebody is getting that that help on their knee replacement and there's somebody else a lady watching there's something with her with the ovaries that seems like to me there's a growth or something on those and that's being filled right now so respond to that whoever that is it's your faith you know yes yes and then there's someone someone's lower back right in the lower back there have been things misaligned and it's caused great difficulty and it seems to me it's been many years actually that it's been that way and so receive just receive that straightening do maybe do something you couldn't do bend over check it somehow because um give action to that moment we're not checking to see did this work we're giving we're acting on that yep yes ma'am no ma'am no i'm saying people are responding that right shoulder she said that was me another lady says i received that so people are responding right to what you're saying yes ma'am somebody else there's pain behind the eyes and i don't know if it's i don't know because i'm not being a medical doctor i don't know how to properly say it i don't know if it's due to eye pressure but it's almost as though something if somebody had fingers behind their eyes pushing on the back and it caused pain whatever that and i i do believe i could be wrong i believe there is such a thing as high pressure and it could be that may be the right terminology but whether it's the right terminology or not it's that there's pain behind the eyes that is being healed right now he does someone says i receive that from my back awesome yep low and more lower back praise the lord praise the lord hallelujah i appreciate the holy ghost manifest in that way yeah i do too wow awesome pastor thank you so much for taking your time to do this with us my pleasure there has been so many time this is great we i told you we're here all night i have no other plans i have no other plans we have no other plans and people have been commenting all throughout uh like this like the kirklands the kirklands are watching they said uh jeff and i have had the joy of learning under pastor nancy for about 20 years god has done so much for our lives people just responding and telling stories of how much they they love and appreciate your ministry so i just want to say thank you pastor um another person says i receive feeling for my shoulder and back this someone just said i received healing from my pelvic area thank you um so praise god people are being healed and really even if it wasn't called out if people will just respond yes ma'am the situation sometimes the holy ghost will have you to call out things just to get people's faith stirred right yes even if that's not their condition um if they'll just respond and with their faith and be stirred that god you know that anointing runs to meet faith yes and so uh god delights in in doing that you know you're calling out some of these people that are watching and they're precious some of our church family they are what brother tony the older i get and the more i travel just in in seeing believers for the first time in different states in different countries even it's just like their family they fit right right exactly love our we love our family i love it i love how you say well since you're hanging out i love how you say how you told the story about you know sometimes when you go to travel and sometimes that you know that feeling of oh i don't want to travel and and you've made a statement about the will of god uh you know his delight or i don't want to say it wrong well i i when the sense just the human sense you know yes yes tired or you you kind of you know the thought of packing up and traveling again and sometimes just the natural inclination of wanting to stay home or then if you if you let that kind of thinking in the devil will energize it and then okay on something more than just it'll become almost a harassment to you and i learned years ago that when that feeling of oh i wish i could stay home or i wish i didn't have to go uh i always answer it with i delight to do the will of the father it is a complete joy and i will say this is that the will of god is my home yes i am not leaving home to go someplace apart from home this is my home and i'm going to my home in another location so whenever i arrive at hotels i'll say it's so good to be home because what is my home it's not a building that's my home and that keeps yeah thinking right you know sometimes just this if you if you get too natural thinking you'll start i'm not going to dread what i was born for or wish i was what i was born for this is what i'm going for and i'm not going to let wrong thinking still the joy of doing what i'm born for it's a joy to go a joy i love it somebody somebody else's their ears are being healed whoever that is just respond to that glory yeah years are being here yeah praise the lord praise the lord yeah people are responding yup that's me glory and people are responding back the will of god is my home you're helping tweak people to get their mentality right pastor so you may have to go back and look at the the uh the comments and stuff but well thank you for having me yes ma'am yes ma'am well thank you for doing this pastor we love you uh it's such a such a blessing again to have you on a thursday night be spending some time with you people are people have stuck on and are watching and i think this one might have the record this is awesome we got windy tonight or i got windy oh no it was good we never get tired of hearing it faster so well if someone will listen i love telling it because how do you not like talking about your family right right church family ministry family it's family it's family it's family well okay well i can keep on going or you say nah let's do this another time i bet the people that are watching would love to go do something else with refers nope they are still commenting nope they said we here all night and there's so many pastors watching a lot of your friends are watching pastor roby is watching she says excellent she loves you hey yes happy birthday pastor ruby happy birthday and in brazil her name is hooby [Laughter] hey [Laughter] pastor keith rogan is watching he says great session yeah yes yes so many so pastor i'ma let you go i just want to say thank you again we love you i want to let everyone who's watching uh i put a link here if you would like to sew and just love on pastor nancy there's a link there where you can do that um thank you all i just want to say too i want to announce that next thursday our special guest is none other than reverend pat harrison she's gonna come praise the lord yes she's gonna come and share some nuggets and i said well you know i'ma ask you a little bit about dad hagan too she said oh i love to so she is a jewel yes yes so i when i when i first married ed of course they were friends with ed long before i ever met him and she was so precious so good and so yes being warm and that she she's a queen of a lady she is she's so sweet and she lets you be you which is awesome i love her because easy to talk with that's what i love so willing to to uh you know let you know what she knows and because she wants you to you she wants you to have the help you know yes oh yeah that your viewers are going to love her yes ma'am yes ma'am well pastor i want to hang out with you for another hour but i i think i need to let you let you have your time pastor jeff miller says thank you he loves you uh so many pastors watching this is awesome thank you all but pastor thank you again thank you we love you yes ma'am and good night we love you okay thank you all right okay goodbye

Channel: Tony Jones II

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Id: Oy9SDT36hYc

Length: 120min 51sec (7251 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 03 2020