(upbeat music) - Yes (laughs).
- Let's just hold hands. - Hello, darling.
- Hi. (Kate and Gary laugh) - And it's lovely to be
- It's very excited, yeah. Sitting here with you because.
- It's so great to sit here with you and to talk
about this performance and talk about this film, to talk about your time with Joe Wright. And it's such a basic question. How did this project find its way to you? It found its way to you, that's a given, But what then happened
once it had found its way to you and how did you
get your head around playing Winston Churchill?
- Winston Churchill. Well, like most projects
that come in, most of them I turn down initially only
because I think it's out of, I don't think it's
fear, but it's certainly insecurity, even still. I'm nearly 60. I've been doing it 40
years and I say to myself they should get someone else. And it's nearly always
happened with the things that have been the most
challenging, the most rewarding, and the most successful. - Yeah, I've had the same exact thing. - Right, and you could even turn them down more than once and they seem
to wash back up on the shore and they won't take no for an
answer and then you have to sort of collect and think
okay, let me think about this. So you're being asked to play, obviously I have a striking
resemblance to Churchill. - Clearly.
- It's obvious, isn't it? - I mean, you must have
been related in a past life. (Gary laughs)
Must have been. Clearly.
- Ah, you. So this thing came in
and you're asked to play arguably the greatest
Britain who ever lived, and, to some. This iconic, famous, to us
and my generation, certainly. I mean, I was born in '58. The end of the war was really,
it wasn't ancient history and we were still feeling the effects, the aftermath of the war. In the streets where I
used to walk to school, you had two houses and a house missing. Three houses, two houses
missing from The Blitz. My mother lived, who, God bless her, is still alive and she's 98 this month. - Oh, wonderful.
- And obviously remembers Churchill. My father was in the Navy. He was in the Battle of
Okinawa and in the Atlantic under Churchill, so it's all of this. These odd, in a way,
connections, but do people? This is the thing. So it gave me great pause
to think this is ridiculous. I don't look anything like him. It's an incredible role. It's the role of a lifetime. It's like Falstaff or
being offered King Lear, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it. - And did you feel in the moment of saying sorry, I'm not going to do it, as well as the utter terror,
the idea of playing him and the fear that you might fuck it up, which we all feel and I
get all the time as well, but aside from that, was there
a part of you that thought actually, I don't want the burden. I don't know if I want the burden? Did that occur to you? - Yeah, the work, to carry the work for the best part of a
year, I had to sort of, I wasn't just being asked to
sort of turn up in a month. It was almost a year of
my life, an immersion into this role and to surrender my time and every waking minute to
Winston Churchill and I thought that's what it's going to take. You can't just show up
and you can't win this. You've really got to do the work and I just thought it
was just mountainous. - And from the point of saying
yes, that you would do it, did you just start to feel
quite sick quite quickly or did you just decide
to focus, get on with it, knuckle under? - Well, it was my dear friend, Douglas, and my wife who said come on, you're going to stand in Parliament and you're going
to say, "Blood, toil, tears "and sweat, we should fight them on the." Really? And I thought what's the
worst that could happen? I'd be awful. I'd get over it, we'd
move on with our lives. This is not sort of like. So I said yes. And of course, the moment that
you step out onto the wire and you're looking at the drop below you. - It's so true though, absolutely true. - And then thus, it began. - Hitler will not insist
on outrageous terms. He will know his own weaknesses. He will be reasonable.
- When will the lesson be learned? When will the lesson be learned? - And did you rehearse? I do want to know that. So they're just must had
been when you had been Mendelson and you had
Kristin Scott Thomas. I mean, did Joe write, your director? Did he get you all around a table? Did you have the sit down and read?
- Oh more than, more than around the table.
- Great, God, that's nice to know, then.
- We had four weeks of rehearsal.
- Oh, God, wow! - With all the rooms. I don't know, have you
ever worked for the BBC? I don't mean to insult you. - Yes, I very much, absolutely, yes, yes. - You know the old days
with the BBC where they used to mark out the set?
- At the taping. - And you would come in
a door like that (snaps). - We did this for Steve Jobs, actually. We did a similar thing
on a film, Steve Jobs, and Danny Boyle a few years ago. - Yeah, (mumbles).
- We marked it, taped it all out.
- That she wrote? - Well, we taped out the floor. Anyway, so I know. So you did that? - Which you were marvelous in.
- Shush. - I want to say it.
- Cut that bit out. - Yes, so we rehearsed with furniture, moving it around and with
the actors and it was a joy to, for once, be on a, you know, saying the words out loud, not five minutes before you shoot. - Yeah, God, great. - Because that's, you know, that's sort of what happens. - And did you find his voice? I mean, I'm not talking
about his metaphorical voice, but did you find his actual voice before you started rehearsing or during? - It's the first. See, here's the thing. I turned it down, but of
course, it all started bubbling. - Yes, so did you know it
was going to come back? - I had a feeling.
- Yeah, it's funny, that, isn't it? I've had that before.
- Yeah, and then, so I went and listened to a speech, got my little iPhone recorder, you know. Went to the landing because
it's a lovely echo up there, you know, on the landing,
on the stairwell. And I sort of practiced
a couple of speeches and just thought, trying
it on like you do. - Because you do have to try it out, you do have to try it out
to see if you can do it. And you know, for you and
I, I mean we're so lucky obviously, but gone are
the days of audition. And actually, there's a part
of me that misses auditioning because it is an opportunity
to just feel it out and see. - Get it, take it, get
it up off the page and. - And make the mistakes
and figure out ways to fix them and think around
it, and outside of it, and find your own way back into it. And that is something that
happens in an audition. - I believe we are to meet regularly. - How are you for Mondays? - I'll surely endeavor to
be available on Mondays. - Four o'clock? - I nap at four. So I'm fascinated. We all want the call. Well, a great many actors, at least, want the call from Woody Allen. Woody wants you to be in his next film. - And that's exactly what happened. So it was June of last year and I was very excited
about a nice, clear summer and so were my children and we had lots of great things planned and my daughter was gearing up to GCSE
here, so we thought okay, let's really get some
good, fun adventures in before she has to sort
of knuckle under a bit. And my agent phones and said, "Woody Allen "wants to offer you the
lead in his latest film." - (sights) Yeah. - And I just went (laughs), "How fun saying (mumbles) is cheap." I said, "No, that's not,
don't make things up, "please don't make things up because that "would really annoy me if
you're making that up." She said, "I'm not making it up. "He's going to phone you,
he's going to phone you "in a minute." And I'm going (laughs). I'm literally, I'm sitting on the floor, sorting through my son's schoolbag. - Yeah. - And to know he's going to
phone you in five minutes and he wants to send you the script, but before he does that,
he wants to talk to you about the character,
describe the story to you, and tell you why he wants
you to play this part. And I'm suddenly really
struggling to even form my thoughts a little, my words. I'm okay, okay, (sighs) so
it's just a big adrenaline moment and no time to really think. And then of course, I thought to myself, "Okay, Woody Allen is known for being, "I think, quite eccentric
and quite, potentially, "demanding and also doesn't
like rehearsing with actors." And so I realized that I
had all of these things that I'd heard about
Woody Allen as a director and a writer, none of
which I knew were true, false, upside down, black,
white, pink, gray, no idea. So I thought okay, just be
yourself, just be yourself. Hello! Hello? Hello, is this Kate? Yes, hello, hi Woody, hello. Oh God, and immediately I'm
not being myself at all. I'm going to hate myself. - Right, right.
- And I'm thanking God that I'm not auditioning because
I definitely would have not gotten the job. So he said, "You know,
I've written this movie "and you know, I'd love you to read it. "You're probably going
to hate it, but you know, "you read it and you'll see, you know, "if you want to do it and
you know, it's a great role, "like, it's a tour de force
and I think it could be great "for you and just read it,
and if you don't like it, "that's fine and you can
just go back to your life "and have a probably nicer
life if you don't do it, "but you know, you may want to do it." And this kind of goes on and
I'm sort of just laughing my head off thinking,
"God, this really is real. "He's all of the things
that I thought that he "would probably be."
- Right, right. - I had met him once before,
but it was quite a long time ago and it was brief. And so then, a carrier pigeon,
person, arrives at the house with the script. I said, "Would you like a coffee?" Yes, that would be lovely. Sits and waits outside
the house with a coffee while I sat and I read
- While you read. - The script and I just, you know, Jenny, the character I play in the
film, it's a gigantic role not just in terms of the volume
of dialogue, but in terms of the personality and
the heart, and the pain, and the turmoil.
- Yes. - And the desperation, and the regret, and the desire, and broken dreams and hope for a chance at love again. And I mean, the thing
that, the number of things that she was and represented
to me was just so, it was so gigantic. It was brilliant. It read like a play, it
read fluidly, it zipped by. Every character was incredible. These long scenes, I
just couldn't get over it and I thought, "Wow, this is a great role "for someone else to play." (Kate and Gary laugh) I thought the same thing. I thought well, I just,
I really can't do that. I mean, I just can't do that. I just can't. And I wasn't going to
work, it was the summer, we'd had all these plans
- Right. - And my husband said, "What's
he like, what's he like? "Quickly, let me read it." I'm like, "You're not allowed to read it "and the lady's outside. "She's waiting to go."
(Gary laughs) What's it like? And I said, "You know, it's
such a shame, it's just such "a shame because it's
completely brilliant, "but I'm just going to have to, "I can't do it, I can't do it. "Stop looking at me like that. "Just don't look at me,
don't even look at me. "I can't do it, I'm not going to do it, "so just forget it." - This is a $500 watch. - But you always wanted this watch. - Yes, but it's much too extravagant. You can't afford this.
- That's my business. - Even if you could it's
much too extravagant given. - Given what? Given what?
- It's too much to spend on me. You shouldn't be getting me jewelry. - And then my daughter
overhears this conversation and she goes, "Mum, get over yourself. "Of course you're going to bloody do it." And I thought, "Oh God,
oh God, she's right, okay. "Oh God, oh, God." And the whole summer really
became about making myself yes, learning lines. I learnt, that I did actually
learn the whole script actually before we even started. But it was more about
mentally preparing myself because I wanted to be
everything that Woody Allen - Right.
- Had hoped that I would be and I wanted to be more
and I wanted to be able to surprise him, and I
wanted to be able to surpass his expectations, but most of all, I wanted to be bulletproof and
I wanted to be easy for him. I didn't want to be a burden
because I just had a feeling that he's probably the kind
of director, having done it for as long as he has
done now and churned out so many masterpieces. I just thought you know,
he's not going to want to be bothered with actors being
neurotic and questioning him and needing things from him. - He's seen it all.
- He's seen it all. - Done it.
- Yeah, but also, I pride myself actually on
not really being like that, not being a needy person. Just show up, you get on, you just do it, no fuss.
- Yeah, yeah. - And so, that's how I did it. Every out of work actor
friend I had who happened to be around that summer,
please, just please come down and stay just a week, just a week. I'll cook lovely food and
we'll just learn the lines. - Yeah.
- Just, I got to get the lines in. And I called in favors
left, right, and center, anyone who was available and yeah, and that was my way (laughs), my way into Woody Allen.
- That is. - It was just mad.
- And you must, I must say, and you surpassed his expectations. - Oh God, well, I hope so, I hope so. - I have a question for you, though. There's that long take of where you're. - Which one (laughs)?
- Well. - Oh God.
- Well, yes. Well, there's the one under the pier. But there's the one where Timberlake comes and accuses you. - Oh yes, at the end.
- (mumbles) yeah. - And you're drunk.
- Yeah. - It's some of the, it's remarkable. Your drunk acting is, (Kate laughs) is there something you do? - God, well, thank you - I mean, presumably you weren't, - For admiring my drunk.
- You weren't drunk, you weren't drunk of course, no. - No, I wasn't drunk, I wasn't drunk because years ago when I
was about 22, I had to do a drunk scene in something and I had a couple of
cheeky swift ones beforehand because another actor who
should remain nameless for the purposes of this conversation, said, "Just have a few drinks." And I thought, "Oh, okay, I
don't know how to be drunk "onscreen," and wasn't
and never have really been a very big drinker. - Right, right.
- And so, and I regretted it because
that just made me really tired. But the one thing that I did remember is that your body, the
way you move your body, the way you'll push
someone on the shoulder and you just push them
a little bit too hard. - A bit too hard, yeah.
- It takes you longer to move your head. You don't whip (snaps)
snap it fast like you would if you were sober. But I was very nervous
about that scene, actually. Well, there were a few that
I was very nervous about, there's that scene, the
one where my character gives him an antique pocket
watch as a birthday present. I was very nervous about that
scene because it was just brilliantly written.
- It's (mumbles). - I just thought, "Oh
God, I'm not (mumbles). "(laughs) Just mustn't get this wrong." But I went to Woody that
morning and actually, Woody like to have his actors
on set before he gets there in full hair and makeup
so he never sees you as your person, real person
- Right right. - In street clothes,
which I completely think is a brilliant idea. So he never saw me without
my wig and the costume and all of that, but this one morning, I snuck onto the set and I slightly hid and all the Ads and things
were looking for me. You know, where's Kate? Anyone got eyes on Kate? And I could hear the radios, you know, people were looking for me. And I thought, "No, I'm just not. "I just have to get
Woody before anyone else "gets their hands on him." And he came shuffling into the studio in that sweet way that
he does and I went to him and I said, "Woody, I
really need to talk to you." Oh my God. He said, "Is everything okay? "Are you sick, are you?" I mean, he immediately just
thought there's some ailment that is going to prevent her from. I said, "No, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. "I really just wanted to ask
you to look after me today "because you do know that you've written "an extraordinary scene
and it does have undertones "of Blanche DuBois, there's
a touch of Sunset Boulevard "in here, there's a little Joan Crawford. "There are lots and lots
of ways that I could go "with this scene. "I just need you to know
I'm not going in any "of those directions, I'm just not." He said, "No, you mustn't. "Oh God, do you feel the threat
of any of those characters?" I said, "I don't actually, I don't." I said, "But I just want
to be on the same page "with you and I just
want you to pull me back "if it goes too far. "I just want to, I've got
to stay on the tightrope "and I must not fall off it." So you can be drunk and you
can fall off the tightrope and sometimes it can be quite effective, between this was not a
scene in which I was going to be doing that and I
really asked for his support and he gave it. I mean, he was sort of on me all day and you know, little ideas back and forth and he was like, "You feeling okay? "I think it's okay, I mean,
I don't think it's cliched. "I think we have," you know, he was. - It's more than okay.
- Try, try, try this. And maybe do this one. Maybe don't move around at all. Maybe just see how it feels. Keep your hands low, don't do so. He was brilliant. - And so he let you do, I mean how many takes
did you do that scene? - Oh God, I can't tell you. We rehearsed it for the whole morning. I do remember that. - Right.
- We rehearsed the whole morning and that would often happen a lot, actually. You don't rehearse at all
before you start shooting. - Right.
- Not at all, which is very disconcerting. But actually, I didn't mind it in the end because we did rehearse. We'd get to work and we would
rehearse until we were ready to shoot it and sometimes that could be four and a half, five hours. And then you'd break for lunch. - Wow, yeah.
- And Vittorio Storaro, who was our extraordinary cinematographer would just make sure he
was happy with everything and you hit the ground running - And when you go, you go.
- In the afternoon and you go. - Yeah.
- So we'd sometimes do, you know, it would often
be 13, 14 minute takes all in one shot, one camera. And we would do it maybe,
you know, ever any more than I would say, 20 times. And that was at the very outside. But it would always have
to be the whole take because it doesn't stop you don't cut in. I want to be honest with you, Mickey. I'm married. I'm a married woman. I want to be honest with you, Mickey. I'm a married woman. I'm married, Micky. - I've been a great fan of
his movies for so many years and I don't know what it is. There's something. A Woody Allen movie would
come out and it's great to see it on the big screen
where you should see it and I lived in New York for a while and it was great to go to the movies and see a Woody Allen
movie with New Yorkers and there's something. It's like being in the
company of a friend. Like, there's a sort of
wonderful familiarity to it where you just.
- He loves New York so much and he loves to capture New York, he loves to capture New
Yorkers, people going about experiencing life in
totally different forms and so many of them, the hustle
and the bustle on the street and everyone has a purpose, a direction, or something, a love
affair, a romantic moment. There's everyone's got a New York story and a New York life
and he's just brilliant at capturing that. - And who, the voice that
you have, the accent. It's very, very specific. - So yeah, so.
- Did you work with someone? - Well, I'm glad you ask
me about that actually because it did, I did actually find, I did find that quite difficult. And again, I coulda done that. She could have been, you know. I mean, it would have been perfectly easy - Right.
- And acceptable and for the period if I'd done that, but I didn't want to do
it because I've heard that before a thousand times over, done brilliantly by many other people. So I said to Woody,
"Look, I want to come up "with something that's
a little bit different." He said, "Well, you know,
she's not from Coney Island "originally, she's from
a broader New York area. "She wanted to be actress,
therefore she was never "a very good one, but she would have had "some form of training." - Fiction or something, yeah. - Yeah, something. So have her sound a little
different to everyone else. Meanwhile, I'm guessing what everyone else is going to sound like (laughs). But she's been in Coney Island
for maybe five or six years, so she would have picked up something. She lives there, she works there, - Yeah, right.
- And she has a child. And so, I did work with a dialect coach, a lady who I've known
for 20 years actually, since Titanic, and we came
up with something together. But we did go in to record
a dialect bunker because. (Gary laughs)
We really did. We spent a week. We actually went away
because I just kept finding life at home and cooking
meals (laughs) for children very distracting. We went away and we did. We went into a bunker, pulled
the phone out the wall, - Right.
- And we hammered it out for a week. - Is that true?
- And at the end of the week, I had this one piece of
dialogue that I wanted to record and send to Woody and I
thought, "Oh God, am I brave "enough to do this?" Because he could just say,
"It's awful, change it." I thought well, put
yourself out there, girl. And there's a little scene
where my character is talking to her reflection in a mirror. - Oh, yeah.
- A little bit like a performance and I
recorded that piece of dialogue for Woody and sent it to
him and I got an email back three days later, may I add? - Yeah, three days while you're sweating. - To say very nice. Very nice, that's all he said. Very nice, you did a nice job. I thought okay, I'm in, I'm in (laughs). - I sent tapes to Joe. - You did the same thing.
- I would do the speak.
- So did you work on your own or with a coach?
- I worked on my own. - And was that one of the
more challenging parts of creating him, the
voice and the movement? The movement of him? - The movement was, here's where, it all really came out of. You know, we close our eyes
and we try and remember Churchill, and then I was
thinking, "Am I remembering "Churchill or pictures,
or maybe the odd piece "of footage that I've seen of him?" Am I remembering Churchill
or am I influenced or contaminated by
Albert Finney's Churchill or Robert Hardy's Churchill, right? - Well, I was going to ask
you that, but I thought I'm sure every journalist
has asked you that, so maybe I wouldn't (laughs). - But you know, so you, so what I did, and he's played as this sort of. He's a man born in a bad mood. He's, you know, a curmudgeon with his drink and his cigar and shuffling around, and I went to, apart from the.
- But he was born in Blenheim Palace as well, wasn't he? - Yes, yes.
- I've seen his lock of hair. I've been and seen the, yeah.
- Right, so he was. So rather than, you know, you get a sense of the personality of the
man from the written words. I mean, and there's so many biographies that are written about him,
but I went to the newsreel footage and what I saw was a man who was energized. He looked like a baby, he really did. He had this cherubic face,
he had a twinkle in his eye, he had a little smile on
his lips like he'd stolen sweeties from the tuck shop and he was alert and
alive and marching ahead of everyone and they were
like, chasing behind him, trying to keep up. And I thought yeah, that's the man that won the war. You know, that's.
- Yeah, because he seemed to have, and you certainly
captured this, my God, so brilliantly. He seemed to have a relentless energy for a man who was clearly
pretty unhealthy (laughs). - Unhealthy, 65 at this point. - Yeah, which interestingly,
is not that much older than you are now.
- No. - And yet he looked so much older, so much older. - Let them see your true
qualities, your courage. - My poor judgment.
- Your lack of vanity. - Yeah, and my iron will.
- Your sense of humor. - Ho, ho, ho. - Oh, now go.
- Oh? - Be.
- Be what? - Yourself. - I did a film in which,
about nine years ago, eight, nine years ago in which I had a lot of facial prosthetics, so I know the pain of how long that it takes in the chair, but I can imagine it would have been impossible to play him, wouldn't it, without all of that? - Oh, it was really one of the reasons, I think,
that it gave me a moment when it first came through. To people, I guess, tend to cast actors who are a little more robust than I am and who maybe look not like him, but suggest him.
- Could look more like him. - Rather than someone like me. So that was, of course, I mean, that was the elephant in the room. How are we going to do this? I'm nearly 60. I am not going to put on 50,
60 pounds to play the man because it would just be
ridiculously unhealthy. - Also, it would have
taken you a very long time to put that on.
- And it would have taken me a long time. So it was always going. That was always a thing
that we had to discuss and I knew someone, I knew Kazuhiro Tsuji, who designed the makeup. And I said really, I'm in, I'm on the train with you, Joe. But this is the guy I want because I feel that he's the only man on
the planet that can do this and achieve it and pull it off. And Joe took his notebook out
of his pocket and his pencil and he said, "Kazuhiro,
how do you spell it?" And we got going and I knew Kazu. The stars aligned. You know, he's here. He's 25 minutes from my house. - Amazing.
- It wasn't like some amazing artist that
lived in Finland, you know? He was like, 25 minutes from me. He's retired
- Wow. - From the movie business. - But happily came back now? - So I had to seduce him and
say, "Please, please, please, "come back."
- But the collaboration of creating a character like that one, because it does include
so many technicians and the director. It's a lovely art of our job that I think we don't get to talk about that often and actually is an enormous, is an enormous part of bringing
a character to life, truly. You know, often people
say, "Oh, I don't feel like "I can do it until the costume's gone on." And I completely agree.
- Oh. - Costume, wig, everything. But when you have the prosthetics as well, it becomes your safety blanket, doesn't it?
- Yeah. - Then perhaps lunchtime?
- Lunch? Mondays? Your majesty.
- Prime Minister. - What has been your
most challenging role? Maybe it was this one. What has been your most challenging role? - I tell you what, the
most challenging role was George Smiley. Ghost of Alec Guinness who was, for years, the
face of George Smiley, an actor I deeply admire. And was remarkably good in the role and people were just happy with him. He's George Smiley. There's no, you have to be a man who is sort of every man, very quiet, really boring in a way, but make that, but make that exciting. Make it watchable or interesting by doing, really, nothing and being dull. - Yeah, sometimes the
stiller the character, the more challenging it can be, I think. - And because I had no
disguise, I was quite naked except for a pair of glasses. I panicked and I got stagefright. - Proper stagefright? - Bone crushing.
- Really? Oh my God.
- Yeah, calling the doctor. - Oh God, oh God!
- To help my life. I was in pieces. My life was falling apart. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't, sweats. I can't do it, they're
going to have to release me, they're going to have to,
we're going to have to, you're going to have to send me home. And they were already
shooting the opening in Prague and I had like, a week
to go and I just said, "I've got to get on a
plane, I've got to go home." I said, "Look at me, I can't
even relax in my hotel room. "How am I going to walk on a set "and remember these lines?" And another thing, I
called a doctor (laughs). - Oh my God, the things we put
ourselves through (laughs). - Yeah, and he gave me a little tablet and after a few days, it
started to calm me down. - Oh my God.
- You know, I got the sweats started to go and I got a bit of perspective on life and I got to the set and as soon as I arrived on the set, I went, "Oh yeah, yeah." - I got this!
- I know where I am, yes! What was all that craziness about? But I was nearly on an
airplane going home. - On a stretcher. - Yeah, I mean, just leaving town.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. (upbeat music)
