A Temporarily Embarrassed Believer

when I first started identifying as an atheist I came online and and I found very prominent youtubers on speaking on atheist topics people who had very large audiences and the hundreds of thousands and they were talked about how creationists were full of shit and they would talk about how religion was bad and religion was foolish and here's some good arguments for why evolution is true and here's some good arguments for why creationism is false and I really connected with that and I really found a lot of that very useful and I thought yeah this is this is a community built on reason and facts and science and empiricism and we value objectivity and we value examining our beliefs and examining the beliefs of others and really honestly auditing what we think and what we say and finding the truth no matter what it is whether it's uncomfortable for us or not and then you became a feminist then you decided that objectivity actually wasn't the highest value should aspire to you when trying to establish your own worldview letting decided that you wouldn't be skeptical you'd listen and believe and then you decided that if there are facts that disagree with your worldview and your narrative then you'd ignore them didn't you Steve and cutting through the cognitive bias that shapes so much of our thinking and then a few years went by and I paid more attention you know to some atheist youtubers some again some of the most popular prominent atheist youtubers and I started to notice that they were talking a little bit less about creationism and evolution and religion or at least Christianity and they were talking a lot more about feminism and how awful it was what do you think that is thief do you think it's because creationism became more oppressive and censorious than feminism or do you think it's that feminism became more oppressive and censorious than creationism what do you think why do you think they did or do you think they just hate women Steve and what a terrible person rebecca watson was yeah then what a terrible person anita sarkisian was you know women can be bad people too don't you Steve I mean women are capable of lying and cheating and manipulating for personal gain just like a man and you know why they can do that Steve because women are people too and how Islam was uniquely awful as a religion isn't it and I thought to myself is this is this the community I was a part of is this the rational unbiased objective community yeah yeah that's right Steve this is the community where people treat each other as equals where people don't care about the fact that they're a woman they care about the fact that they're lying about being a gamer and then scamming gamers out there money that's something they care about it doesn't matter that it's a woman doing it Steve that doesn't mean she doesn't get called up on it it's the same with anything like that it's the same with Islam Islam is uniquely horrible and to women and I'm sure you'll cover this because I'm sure you've got some sort of apologetics lodged in your brain somewhere you just have to get out but yes Steve these are the people who care about reason and objectivity you are the side that doesn't care about these things I have literally seen so many times people saying from the regressive left objectivity it's a silly thing it's nonsense we shouldn't worry about it and then there's you sat here going oh I can't believe these are the people who care about losing objectivity I thought objectivity was supposed to confirm my biases we're the most popular voices online are rabid anti-feminists yes thieves we are against feminism in its current modern form because feminism in its current modern intersectional form is based on Marxist principles I am a liberal I cannot also be a liberal and a Marxist do you understand I don't think women are an oppressed class and I think black people are an oppressed class and I think Obama is being oppressed by you but you do this is your worldview you fuck nuts you think he is experiencing oppression that you don't experience something mate he's the most powerful man of the fucking world if he's experiencing oppression I'm not gonna worry about it I'm just not gonna worry about it because if he's oppressed I must be really fucking oppressed all and here's the is the liberal part none of us oppressed that's the alternative I've everyone's oppressed or none of us are oppressed and I think none of us are oppressed I think everyone has individual agency every individual person can make their life as they want it they can struggle they can work they can earn the result they'll get you don't think that way young women are a class you think they're being oppressed by men you think women can't do anything you sound like a misogynist or are brazen proud sexist s' you've been talking to Aaron raw haven't you know we're brazen proud liberals Steve liberals anti Marxists that's what we are Steve and racists no Steve we are the people who are anti-racists we believe black people being people to have agency and if they use it they should bear the consequences of it just like I would say for myself and for you and for every other human being Steve I don't think they're helpless children you fucking racist and religious bigots you fucking what me and religious bigots what kind of atheist argues against people being critical of religion I'm genuinely asking you Steve unblock me on Twitter for five minutes and send me the some of the answer I need to know Steve I need to know why you are arguing against arguing against this is what the community is yeah unbelievably unbelievably the Atheist community has a problem with religion in general just the idea of religion it's retrograde it's regressive they're against it we're against that I don't know why this is a surprise to you I thought you came to this community because of that is this is what the community has always been how is this in any way a surprise to you oh my god the Atheist community is liberal and anti religious what no support at least this is a part of what the community has always been because there is another part of the Atheist community there is a more socially conscious part a more progressive part a more cult-like pause but I don't want to spoil the surprise I'll let you cancel a part that is more interested in doing activism and advocacy to attain equality to overcome the obstacles that many people face when was attaining equality other parts of the Atheist sort of raison d'etre it's about letting people live their lives as they want if people choose to do different things that mean they don't earn as much money that's their choice Steve I can't stop that and I don't think I should stop that due to various forms of marginalization mm-hmm there are organizations like the American Humanist Association you decided to sell out the foundational principle of humanism and to split their movement into special interest groups that they could then advocate for different rights and privileges for each one yeah there are not a wonderful movement that is trying very hard to put front and center a social justice focus as a part of its humanist skeptical activism declaring all men to be sexist and all white people to be racist is part of humanist skeptical activism is it something that I applaud those Sitrus lee and i could not support any more than I do I think the American Humanist Association is a great role model for other secular organizations I think it's gonna be the thing that kills it do you know why people don't like social justice it's not just the fact that it's Marxist it's not just the fact that it infiltrates and coops and then tries to destroy things that are otherwise good and useful right it's not that that's just the end result the the reason people don't like it and the reason this all happens is because it's an authoritarian quasi religious movement the preachers of people and does not tolerate any kind of criticism or dissent and you're like oh the rational objective people who are skeptical about everything don't like this movement I just can't understand why atheists aren't getting on board with this in the way it has handled the social justice aspect of humanist advocacy the way it has recently announced partnerships with a faction of black humanists and lgbtq+ humanists and feminist humanists and it has said this is an essential part of humanist activism of skeptical activism secular activism this can't just be something that we pay lip service to and then leave off to the side this has to be one of our priorities because a humanist movement that does not Center the least privileged people in our group a humanist movement that ignores or silences or dismisses the concerns of people of color of women of LGBTQ folk then that humanist movement is not truly a humanist movement Steve you saying that before the humanist movement became co-opted by social justice it didn't care about women it didn't care about black people it didn't care about LGBTQ people it didn't care about any of these things because I think if you spoke to them they would all say they did because humanists must care about the Equality and the fair treatment and justice for all people Steve do you think for a second that the black humanist society cares about the Equality of white people or anything that might happen to white people do you think the LGBTQ one thinks anything of straight people do you think they care about the Equality or any of the issues straight people my face what about any issues that men face that the feminist society care about are they going to be act and they've been doing that men's rights activism are they Steve I don't fucking think so this is the problem everyone has these people are not going to be following the rules you just laid out for humanism do you think discriminating for or against people basis on based on their race or on the agenda on the sexuality is a good thing is discrimination based on these categories a good thing to you because you aren't advocating for it you fucking moron and that means identifying and doing whatever we can to reform and overcome the systems of oppression and the social and political obstacles that stand in the way of people that are placed in their way unfairly because of their gender identity because of their sexuality because of the color of their skin name one name one name a law main the convention showed me the people who are saying you know Hillary Clinton company president because she's a woman a black person can't be president even though we've had one for eight fucking years almost show me these people Steve because of their disability because of any unjust reason are you saying you wants a retard as the president of the United States would that be unjust if we said no retards seriously though how disabled people being prevented from any of the things we're talking about now what what's holding them back other than their disability this has to be a major part of humanism and the disappointing thing about it is the way you can see people who pride themselves on their skepticism and their objectivity and their willingness to try and recognize and cut through their biases falling prey to those very biases hashtag projection when they reject social justice topics when they demean people who are active in social justice movements by calling them sjws are complaining about political correctness run amok well that's a bit fucking rich isn't it coming from the man who started this video by calling everyone a sexist and a racist if they're opposed to social justice but don't call you an sjw because that's a neat if that's a nasty word that hurts your feelings that fuck you fuck your feelings stop calling people names and maybe they won't do it in return you started it dipshit or denigrating feminism or LGBTQ equality movements or racial justice movements like black lives matter oh I'm so sorry I wasn't preserving the sanctity of the Church of feminism and black lives matter State I'm really sorry how dare I criticize movements that are overtly racist and sexist I'm so sorry I didn't check my fucking privilege it's an interesting demonstration of cognitive bias because if you go into an atheists space online and point out that it's bullshit that there are currently no soft professing atheists serving in the United States Congress not a single one you'll get a lot of vigorous nods in agreement when it's atheists who are marginalized oh we're right on top of that boy amazing when atheists have been marginalized the Atheist movement can go on we're right on top of that oh yeah more atheists in Congress atheists on the Supreme Court right I don't know personally I don't really give a fuck as long as they didn't stop preaching Christianity and sprinkle I don't care but if somebody points out that say most of the speakers at major atheist conferences are still sis hetero white men are you really trying to equate someone's legend to someone's race and gender are you honestly doing that Steve I mean that sounds like you are a racist in a sec oh that's not fair you know it Steve when I get stressed when someone says something certain believably dull I'll gonna do something that relaxes me and I haven't polished this salt but I made with my own fair hands I haven't polishes in ages you can tell you can really tell and I'm saying here trying to pretend that you didn't just try to make lights or fun of the idea that being judged on characteristics upon one has no control everyone has no control such as one's race or gender is in fact not fair I mean you seem to be in great doubts about this and I am just I am baffled how you can think people complaining about about racist and sexist treatment I'm just whining about things not being fair I mean that it's just that it's just amazing to me and so I need to do something before any I fit my fucking little something thing I need to do something that's gonna calm me down and I tell you what look at shine look at shine you see the difference that makes me happy isn't that nice that's just nothing it's just not fair is it Steve oh you know you just can't discriminate against those people based on their race and genders and that's not thirty years it you know it's not fair to the racist and sexist if we prevent people from discriminating based on gender it's just not thirsty let's go have to don't merit me it's gonna have to be a lot the things they do the things they saying the people they are Steve I know that's I know that's a really really it's a tough line in there it's just oh that's so unfair it's just so unfair Steve but you know what that's thus the world we're trying to build a really unfair one which people have to work people have to do things they don't just get given things on the basis of what they are because we've decided that that is in fact called privilege being given things on the basis of what you are is in fact unfair and that's really not the world we want to live in why you are trying to regress us back to that world is absolutely beyond me take a look at yourself in the mirror well stop trying to ideate why do you have to divide us well why are you trying to do that humanism is meant to be an inclusive universal movement for every human being and you'll thrilled about the divisions in humanism why are you trying to divide us you know everything was great until these feminists showed up well you did a good job making the argument against feminism here Steve what's the point of dividing people all it does is weaken them all it does is functionalize them what's the point where's the benefit Steve and started drawing lines around people why do you have to put people in categories like that when a Christian mischaracterizes the average atheist and creates a straw man to attack oh we atheists are right on that we atheists will correct every misconception we'll counter every argument will point out every fallacy but if an atheist erect a Muslim straw man and then another atheist points out that that's what is being done that we are viewing Muslims and Islam with a double standard that we are making sweeping conclusions about Islam and about Muslims that we do not make about Christians and that we would never accept being made about atheists Oh Islam a file why are you white nothing for Islam why don't you against that you're an atheist feminist and you are now speaking defense of Islam why what don't you know you call yourself a feminist don't you know how awful women are treated in the Muslim world how can you defend Islam I thought you are some kind of a progressive what are you are regressive leftist if a prominent Christian personality or a prominent Muslim personality does something questionable says something questionable gives a really really paternalistic sexist sermon that goes viral you know we all watch the the YouTube video and we cluck our tongues and we think oh the attitudes that these religious people these fundamentalists have toward women it's just barbaric go on tell me yeah and this is what you as an atheist feminists should be speaking about I mean you do understand that it's okay to beat your wife in almost every Muslim country doesn't that there isn't a punishment for it if you do it right I mean there are rules for beating a wife and that's not that's not even to get into like the whole thing honor killings the punishment women get for being raped that's not to get into the fantasy female genital mutilation or just the basic restriction on freedom of movement for women in many Muslim countries Steve there are so many misogynistic elements to Islam I can't believe you are now speaking in defensive and yet you are but when a prominent member of the Atheist community says something blatantly misogynistic are you really honestly going to equivocate the oppression of the institutionalized oppression of women under Islam with an atheist speaking against feminism in a video or on Twitter or I don't know just to pull Oh an example completely out of the air just hypothetically retweets a video posted by one of the worst misogynists and harasses online right now Allah Akbar Steve we can't make excuses for him fast enough are you sure that's what happened are you sure that there wasn't a hate mob who said hey we resemble that remark who then got on his case so much he ended up getting really stressed and it may well have contributed to him having a stroke I mean I'm just saying it's just a man in his 70s fuck him someone someone tweeted a video you don't like why not just jump down his throat you know it doesn't matter he's a man he's got male privilege what difference does it make to him he didn't do anything wrong he didn't comparing the most radical elements of feminism to most radical elements of Islamism because they operate on basically the same principles isn't wrong Steve you just don't like it because it's too close to home it's looking pretty good man much better this is enhancing my Zen see how married this is you seen that beautiful absolutely beautiful he didn't hell he certainly didn't mean anything by it hey he said all kinds of things in support of women in the past he identifies as a feminist when an atheist fuck's up we can't make excuses for him fast enough your music collection is sexist stupid let a Christian or a Muslim or some other religious person fuck up or say something that we think is indicative of the awful attitudes of that religion or that culture toward women or people of color or gay people or whatever oh we are on it oh yeah god forbid that Richard Dawkins criticizes feminism because that's the equivalent of chopping a woman's clitoris off when she's a teenager that's it's exactly the same thing Steve I can see why you so angry I mean it doesn't make you look like a fucking idiot or anything we do not let up and we do not accept excuses for that well you're absolutely right there I mean you're doing exactly that right now and I'm calling you up on it you have actually argued that maybe we shouldn't be intolerant towards religion says mr. YouTube atheist it's disappointing to find that double standard it's not a double standard you moron what you call misogyny other people call criticism what we call genital mutilation you call Shh I don't want to talk about that to find that double standards so rampant in a community that is filled with people who fancy themselves sceptics and fancy themselves unbiased and fancy themselves champions of freedom and champions of Liberty and and are in many cases willing to go to work willing to spend time and money and effort and labor promoting the cause of atheist fairness of atheist justice of atheist equality yes what they're doing is promoting the liberal position of equality of opportunity what you want is the Marxist position of equality of Bounce come we have no problem with concepts like oppression and marginalization and lack of social privilege when the underprivileged group being referenced is atheists actually Steve I do if you can't prove that atheists are being oppressed then I don't agree that atheists are being oppressed if you can't prove that women are being oppressed I don't agree that women are being oppressed do you see where I'm going with this this is something to do with me being a skeptic and something to do with you being a social justice warrior you and your listen and believe mentality really nice stubborn have you have you changed your movie collection yet because I hear that was really sexist but when you take that same concept and you apply it to other underprivileged groups other marginalized groups like women like black folks or people of color in general like trans folks gay folks well you know that's just that's just sjw bullshit what our units on told me about the patriarchy either wage gap white supremacy it is sjw bullshit most of it is racist most of this sexist most of it is sis phobic and it's all very is llama philic bizarrely probably because they're brown and no one's interested no muss to categorize people like this people just want to talk about human beings as individuals what is each person's problem because you can get really charismatic women who are very successful we're not being held down by the patriarchy and then get really Weasley looking men who wear the camp's and all these things the arena race is just a social construct it doesn't really mean anything you know you bet you can't even name me a right that women don't have in the West that men have can you because if you're part of a movement that claims you're fighting for equal rights for women to be the same as men and you can't find a name a single example of when men have a right women don't have isn't that you know a sign that should be telling you maybe there's no need for me to be in this movement anymore see we go there talk about atheist depression all absolutely on board a hundred percent total bullshit let's do something about it talk about oppression of women talk about oppression of blacks talk about oppression of LGBTQ fuck oh well that's just sjw horseshit and what rights do any of these people have that the others don't rights Steve I want to hear it I want you to so get up I mean you just say this I want you to quantify it tell me what they're missing tell me what I can campaign for if you can't name anything then it strikes me that you're full of shit Steve that your whole movement is full of shit it's not people who I don't know are either in it to get something or hate themselves so much they think it's going to give them absolution there's no place for that in atheism stop trying to poison atheism with that Steve earlier on you were complaining that you weren't allowed to discriminate against people on the basis that they are white cisgendered men that is the poison you fucking idiots you wanting to discriminate based on race and gender and sexuality that's what you're doing that's what people don't want it's wrong it's retrograde it is regressive and I'm not saying that an energetic commitment to social justice causes in general or even any one particular social justice movement ought to be necessary to be a member of an atheist community or a secular progressive community yes you are Steve that's exactly what you're saying because nothing is ever enough because your ideology is hegemonic it will not stop at just some of it it must have all of it because the existence of something that's not it is an anaphora to it you have to control everything you don't even understand how your own fucking ideology works there will never be enough and you know it or movement I'm not saying that at all what I am saying is that I think feminism and social justice activism in general needs to be a much more prominent part of atheist secular humanist activism in general but then it wouldn't be a theist secular or humanist would it Steve I just mean that every single atheists or even every single atheist activist has to also be a black lives matter activist and a feminist and a gay rights activist and a trans rights activist that's not what I'm saying yeah except that is what you're saying isn't it Steve you know with that what do you know or not and whether you want to say that or not that is what you're saying because when you guys say take over an institution there will never never be a time where you can say well you know I'm not feminist because I thought hey what can you a sexist you're like no I just don't want to I'm just not a feminist I'm not Marxist and they like I care what about black lives matter you're not racist are you because you already equate not supporting these things and in fact not being opposed to them with racism and sexism you're you're delusional you're absolutely delicious wishful thinking on your part even I'm saying that people who are interested in those things people who are doing that work people who are trying to push those priorities need to be welcomed in the movement and we should not be trying to push them away we should not be trying to push away the people who are working directly against the core values of the movement I mean you are complaint you complain in this video about people being religious bigots in the Atheist community and you think we shouldn't try to push people like that away for what reason they're going against everything that worth fighting for Steve one of the role models for me in the atheist movement especially online in my years as a part of this community has been are in raw Aaron I was a sexist when I was younger and now if you're not a feminist you're a sexist draw and he was recently interviewed on the American Humanist Association website and arm during that interview said something that I think every single atheist who has ever raised his or her voice in protest against feminism poisoning atheism or social justice poisoning atheism or others PC mangina crap every single person who has ever tweeted something like that it left a pissy comment like that on somebody's video or whined and complained always blocked by you on Twitter about that sort of thing needs to hear what aaron ross said in this interview quote the way I see it if someone else wants to talk about gender equality racial equality transphobia or whatever else and you don't have an interest in that topic you can't relate to it and therefore can't make a meaningful contribution then you don't have to be in that conversation you don't have to spread your ignorance and dismiss or minimize and otherwise disrespect other people's situations you can post in some other thread or blog or what-have-you and talk about what you know it makes no sense to me why there are substantial groups of people unified in their hatred of other people's problems that they can't pretend to understand themselves instead of posting yet another video whining about Anita sarkeesian or hating on Rebecca Watson stop paying attention to them and find something productive to do something that might actually be useful to someone because I guarantee wherever you post this you will see comments criticizing me for saying any of this they'll give all the same wrong reasons they always do and that will probably include the assertion that feminism isn't really about gender equality that you and me and every other feminist somehow got that wrong that we should all call ourselves something else as if only those who hate feminism know what it is and not anyone who identifies as such all right Steve let's think about that if people in the Atheist community didn't have social justice forced upon them by people saying hey we're going to talk about my vagina or my skin color and if you don't do that you're a racist or a sexist then people would ignore it if it wasn't trying to impress itself on other people whether they like it or not then that would be exactly the case there would be all community of sjw's that no one would care about their treating up the fucking bronies I think no one would care it wouldn't matter but that's not what happens no no no no you go in you you and your cronies you find a movement oh there's a movement here that's not infected with social justice let's infiltrate it let's say we're with fellow atheists with this that on the other what you undo oh well I kind of want to respect Islam because Islam is great you know I I don't we've criticize things too much don't be a religious bigger and also kind of talk to you about vaginas we need to promote vaginas everywhere vagina vagina vagina oh my god why why but there aren't enough black people that's your point there aren't enough black people we need more black people you're too white look at those white guys on the stage get off the stage you white fucks this hypocritical prejudiced proudly bigoted willfully ignorant social justice movement that is opposed by anti-feminist anti social justice portion of the Atheist community is here it is with us it is extremely loud and extremely aggressive and toxic and egalitarian and humanist and traditionally feminist in many ways but we're not social justice warriors we're not Marxist were liberals again I have to have to completely hammer this point home Steve you want equality of outcome we want equality of opportunity that's it there is there is never gonna be a compromise here there's never gonna be an agreement as long as you argue for an equal outcome you are my enemy and I will always oppose you you know and difficult to ignore and it will probably be with us for some time but even though it is a part of us it cannot speak for us it cannot be who we are well observed Steve the anti sjw movement will not speak for the SJW movement rather if we want the Atheist movement the Atheist community to mean anything and to be any good to anyone especially the most marginalized least empowered atheists in the world it must not be that do you know I find highly ironic about all of this Steve and I adore that you will completely whitewash and nail wash and sis wash the opposition's social justice and it wherever it goes it's just it's amazing I love it you don't care that there are black people who are doing very well because they weren't very hard you don't care there are women we're doing very well because they weren't very hard you just don't care it doesn't matter does it I mean these people are irrelevant and thanks to groups like the American Humanist Association thanks to people like Aaron raw and lilandra raw and sincere carabao and Alex Jules and ce que vou Hutchison and Hanna Dada boy and Seth Andrews and Matt Dillahunty and Beth presswood and Christy winters and foxy Jezebel and people just an endless list of awesome people on YouTube and active very much within the Atheist secular humanist community thanks to the hard work and dedication and intelligence and compassion and consciousness of people like that I don't think we really have to worry about that I'm loving seeing this since a corrado guy come up all the time the the I won't surrender humanism guy this is ya know the the passion of the cult you just laid out go on it's not fashionable for an atheist to say he has faith in something but I have faith in that I have faith that in the long run that is not who we will be I guess you'll have faith in Steve you're a person of faith you're in the same group as Muslims Christians Orthodox Jews if that's what you want if you draw spiritual sustenance from social justice okay dude I'm not going to judge you if you want your religious beliefs you you go ahead but I'm a skeptic in an atheist I'm not interested in what you have faith in I'm not gonna subscribe to your cult I'm just not interested I don't like feet and novels measured I don't we need to tell me about Xenu and I'm not interested in the white male cap the supremacy patriarchy that is apparently something you're a part but that's the thing is they're these sort of vague generalizations these inaccurate fuzzy thinking it's easy really easy and it is comforting to think that maybe it's not as complicated and detailed as real life is but unfortunately everyone is actually an individual Steven you've got to drill down to it you can't just say I'm the defender of women which women well the women oppose you well I'm obviously not defender of them you know the women opposing firm there's no of course I hate them because they're infidels you know the traitors to the gender they're apostates you know you've got to get past it man you know and it's until you do all you'll be is an anti-christian all you'll be is someone who's like why I'm not I'm not Catholic or Protestant you're not really a skeptic you're not really an atheist what you are is a temporarily embarrassed believer

Channel: Sargon of Akkad

Views: 603,286

Rating: 4.912632 out of 5

Keywords: funny, stupid, feminism, mra, news, comedy, politics, hilarious

Id: j4xxoLlOl1o

Length: 39min 5sec (2345 seconds)

Published: Mon May 23 2016

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

Atheism exists independently from feminism. They are really separate issues. I personally have spent some significant amount of time discussion atheism on this sub-reddit without every bringing up the subject of feminism. But since it has come up, let me give a brief summary.

Feminism in its simplest form is obviously valid. Women and men deserve to have equal rights, and so do African-Americans and European-Americans and Asian-Americans, and so do heterosexuals and homosexuals and transgender people. In short, all human beings of whatever category, as long as they are not violent criminals, deserve equal rights. If you want to promote a more aggressive version of feminism in which the rights of women are not equal, but are superior to the rights of men, then it becomes a problem.

In any event, you can be a misogynist, a feminist, or an ultra-feminist, or even a person who never thinks about gender related issues at all, and still recognize that it does not make sense to believe in God. We can all be atheists.

[u/XelNigma]

It is assumed that most people become atheist once they start to question religion, apply critical thought, use logic and reason, ect. But what about people who are atheist simply because they was born into it, or become atheists because their friends did, they just went with the flow? Basically indoctrinated through peer pressure or happenstance.

Could these be the atheists that are now supporting feminist and SJW stuff? Not to try and pull the ol' "Not a TRUE atheist" crap. but how else would you explain a person who is suppose to be skeptical, that should be using reason and logic to decide if things are good/bad or true/false all of a sudden drinking the koolaid of a new cult?

Either they chose to throw away their rationality and objectivity, or they never had any in the first place and just happen to be on the atheist boat because every one around them was.

[u/Y2KNW]

Steve Shives is $CURRENT YEAR's version of Nephilimfree in terms of how easy it is to beat up his arguments or expose his own hypocrisy.