A Hollywood Insider’s Look At Getting A Script Sold and Produced - Kathie Fong Yoneda

Kathy what's the difference between a low and a high concept movie and which one favors new writers I think that the low concept favors new writers only because I think studios in general are more willing to take a chance on something that maybe is lower in in budget but concept and budget are two different things a high concept movie usually means a higher concept budget in general and that would be like your action pictures your hero superhero pictures things like Star Wars things that have what they call the tent pole you've probably heard that that term before a tent pole effect it's just it's a lot different I don't think it's you and most of them you'll notice are based on something that's been adapted from another piece of of material like comics a book novels that kind of thing but for new people coming in new writers coming in writing a nice refreshing project that's in another arena that's not doesn't require a huge budget and a lot of special effects that's the way to really get a sense of can they develop characters can they carry a story all the way through front for 90 minutes to 100 minutes and can they can they give us good roles that actors want so that I think is as better as if you try and do a lower budget lower concept in terms of genre or you know that's the way to do it and just a reminder what's the definition of high concept and low concept again well high concept usually means something that is you can you can do a lot more with it in terms of well they can always be sequels or prequels those tend to be more high budget and more high concept in terms of it's a larger world more characters and they can do like I said more with that they can continue on an adventure with all of those carrot so that's why I think a lot of them you'll see are adapted from other pieces of material now what's a good test if somebody thinks their script is high-concept how can they kind of run it through some tests because maybe they find out it's actually low concept and they're just not aware I think genre is one way if you look at the ones that usually make the most money or that are based on other pieces of material a lot of times they fall into science fiction horror fantasy or siphon a see those are the most popular genres for that certainly if you look at things that are action-adventure like The Bourne Identity that's another one that you can do a lot with because it's there's always going to be a new adventure as this guy is trying to find out his real identity Kathy I believe you've told us previously that you started out in the studios and a typing pool and then you started to be given notes and you realized you were really in your element so having having been in the industry for some time how does the film and television industry really work you've seen it from sort of this level of being a secretary in the typing pool sort of being an observer maybe in hearing things that people didn't even know you were observing and then you from from working your way up to a much higher level how does it work well from that if you want to do it as a basis of comparison I think a lot of it has to do with the technology first of all a lot of things that were done on a typewriter are no longer it's it's now on a computer so technology is different I do think that that there are more people interested in becoming involved within the studios and the network's I do see that now there are one of the things I've really noticed there used to be 10 to 12 studios and they're now something like six six something like that there's remember we used to have three basic networks CBS ABC and NBC and look how many cable stations and how many smaller networks network for television that we have we have streaming we have more areas where a person can get projects placed so that is great because there's more opportunities which I think everyone needs you know so I think that that's a good thing then that's also a huge difference from what it was when I first started off how does it really work in terms of if you were to sit down and have lunch with someone that's come from another state or another country and they have a vision of it how would you sort of give them this maybe fifteen minute briefing or less on this is how it works it's it's either or sort of an open system it's a closed system led this is how the process works of getting projects approved okay let's take it just as you know just in sort of very brief kind of terms if it were about a script which I think you know most I think most of your your fans aren't interested in screenwriting in terms of screenwriting it's different now because you can give your scripts to other people in terms of like Amazon it has a little bit more open policy you don't necessarily have to have an agent I've heard of people who have just sent things to Amazon and it's gotten read there are more opportunities in terms of there are all kinds of conferences now where you can pitchfest where you can make these contacts and network they didn't have that 15 20 years ago there were you know there were just very few opportunities to to be able to have a writer meet with agents and producers and executives now there's more of those opportunities so interesting so then but most people to present their writing would need an agent it would have to be through somebody else well except for webseries I mean which is another area that that I think we'll get into a little in a little while but webseries you can just you could put that on Vimeo you can put it on YouTube you don't really need to have an agent in fact most people don't have agents that our that our web series creators right so then in terms of getting an agent are there certain agents that aren't able to pitch to studios on your behalf or it's a free system in that way I'm just trying to see from let's suppose a total newbies perspective coming here and thinking that they could just be basically knock on the door and see the you know the person at the front desk and hand it over that's not really how it works it's well you know to get an agent you have to have material having one scripts not going to do it know you need to have at least I would say two or three spec scripts and if you're get breaking into television I would suggest trying to get into some of the there's fellowships and competitions for the major CBS NBC and ABC they all have screenwriting fellowship programs which you can you know I'll give you a list of them and you can if your readers or your fans would like to you know take a look at them I I have a list of them for them and they have wonderful fellowship programs where you can study with some of their show runners and you can they'll introduce you to some of the show runners they'll have them come in the show runners come in once a week and talk with these people you know who are there on the fellowship program and give them hints and ideas about what they're looking for how a television series actually works how they how they put things together with the casting and the the plots and how do you continue a story over a whole not just a season but a series of of years you know they now look for hopefully at least a five-year season you know five-year commitment for a television series so they learn all of those things directly from these people who are on the front lines so if you can get into one of those fellowship programs that's great and so I'll have I'll have that fell all those websites for the fellowship programs for you okay does it give to your viewers but in addition when it's when it comes to age it's still very hard to get an agent you can get a manager you know how I told you how things seem to be shrinking in terms of like the the networks the studios same thing with the major agencies a lot of the agency started merging about ten years ago and so they don't have as many of the larger agencies like they used to agencies now have to be very they're very cost-conscious and so a lot of the agents when the agencies merged they lost some of the some of the agents lost their jobs so they became managers they started using the term managers and they also decided they wanted to produce so there are a lot of managers out there now so that's another area that you might want to look into if you're a new writer but I'd be careful about it because it depends on one whether they are looking just for the material or whether they really want to be able to help you out as a client some of them are just looking just for the material they may just want to do a quick buy of it and have someone else rewrite it or whatever you know so you you have to kind of be careful about it because managers are not they are not regulated whereas agencies are regulated agencies you can't charge you can't get more than ten percent off of the sale of a client's script or material and what would be a way to see if someone was actually a legit registered agent is what website would help them uh you can go to the writers guild and they will tell you they have a list of the ones who are legit and they will also tell you the good thing too is if you do move up with a manager or a producer a production company if you start to think that there might be something that's not quite right call the writers guild and they'll tell you if people have gotten it complained about that I have had I remember when I worked at Disney someone called me and gave me their name and they said I'm so and so I wrote such-and-such script which was submitted to you six months ago I have not heard anything and I looked it up on my computer and I couldn't find it and I said well what's your agents name and they told me and it didn't sound familiar at all and so I said you know can you do me a favor can you tell me the name of your script and I'll and your and your name and I said I'll take all the information down and I will check and see what's going on I called the writers guild and they had four outstanding complaints about this person who was posing as an agent he said in fact he said he was an agent slash manager and he was not registered with them so a lot of people pay money to these people and you're not supposed to pay money this this gal who submitted her script he was asking for $25 for each submission he would make to a studio he said okay I submitted it to four studios that'll be $100 so due diligence can you even go on the website yourself you know like the LA County Bar or or the state oh you can just fine you can do it that way too I mean it may take a little bit longer because they have to pry me they get emails all the time where sometimes if you just make a call you might catch the right person they might be able to quickly look it up in their database okay cuz I don't know if they had their whole database on the website I don't think they knew and for something like complaints sure that might be something better to talk to somebody who's in person who is there and can look it up for you and would you recommend even if you have a good feeling about somebody just to just make sure that everything's it doesn't hurt doesn't hurt okay the other thing too is one of the best suggestions I can give to new writers is join a writers group that you can do it online now you don't have to all just live in the same city or anything you can do it online a lot of people will trade via email or whatever and just look at each other scripts and give feedback and and be a support system for one another but also for some of the some of the people who have actually submitted some material or if somebody has actually gotten interest from a production company they know whether something works or not and it's just like the same thing with screenplay competitions there's so many of them out there and a lot of them all they do is they just get the entry money and they really don't give you any kind of value so what I do every year is I I have several of my clients that that I've that I do business with and I always ask them I'll send out a little questionnaire you know what are some of the competitions that you feel really work which are the ones that you think are the best for new writers to enter and you know I've put out you know a little list of that now I'll give that to you too oh great and it really gives you a good idea of the ones that are the most reliable and it really is worth your time and that's how another writer would really know it's through word of mouth I think word of mouth is the best thing because if you know that some if there's somebody that you know who actually has gone through a competition or actually has used an agent or even in things like it like a consultant you know like gosh I'm looking for somebody to you know professional to read my script you know who can you guys suggest who have you guys used perfect way to do it you know because word of mouth is everything to me you know and that's how it works actually in the industry when you talk about agents you know that's how a lot of people get agents is because they know someone who knows the agent and it goes by word of mouth that's one of the best ways if you if you want to get an agent but most of us don't know somebody I mean I when I start on the business I knew no one in the industry and so you know I was not able to get a job that way so the same thing for a lot of the writers but I have I have clients who eventually have gotten agents and it's because they've gone to pitch fest or because they they placed in a screenplay competition so the form the the the best thing is when you enter these competitions make sure that they have reputable people who are the final judges mm-hmm are these people agents studio execs Network people show runners writers you know who are these people that are doing the final judging and if they have final judges who are professionals in the industry they're gonna be looking for clients they're gonna be looking for material and it's not unusual sometimes whoever wins whoever wins the screenplay competition it may not necessarily mean that it that that project will get made but there's always a possibility that maybe they will ask him what else do you have or she have you thought about turning your script in instead of a movie how about into a TV series I've had a couple of clients who actually have gotten agents just because they placed they place like fourth or fifth but they were but there are agents who read the material and saw that there is something about that material and that writer that had a voice a different kind of voice that they hadn't seen so going back to the judges maybe just just a quick google search of is this judge working currently in the industry mm-hmm and that's a good test the other thing too is sometimes they don't know until later on whether or not who's gonna exactly be judging who the exact people are so what you can always do is the send it a little email to them and just say can you tell me who is some of the judges you've had in the past it gives you an idea of the caliber of judges going back to how does the film and television industry work so let's suppose someone has a reputable agent they've checked them out and they know that they're in good standing there's no grievances or complaints and then they've said this agent submit on behalf of them to a studio what's the process like what should they expect what's the timeframe what if it's optioned what what happens that's a lot of questions at one time certainly it does take time there are more than a thousand pieces of material submitted every month to the studios you know maybe slightly less to larger production companies but it's a lot of material somebody's got to read it it has to go up a chain of command so it does take a little while I would say reasonable time they usually get things done you know read and we'll be able to tell you four to six weeks roughly that's what it used to be when I was working at the studios it could be maybe slightly longer now although a lot of a lot of times it's now everything is now on the computer so you could just read it at your at your leisure you don't have to wait for things to be mailed and that kind of stuff but I I do think that a lot of times it also depends on who else is submitting material there may be a more important agent or there may be an agent who has a script that has some famous actor or director attached to it they are going to get preference so sometimes scripts get put that push down a little lower a little lower a little lower so you do have to watch out for that and I do think that it's important that people understand that for first-timers it's you're going to be there up towards the bottom and so it probably would be longer so I would say you know for just say four to six weeks and if you don't hear anything what you do is you just email or call your your your agent and just you don't ask them about it also find out from them if they've heard anything because usually they don't just submit it to one place they usually try to submit it to a few places because they want to get a consensus of what of what in general what the producers and the studio people are looking for well let's suppose somebody says we like it it's a go what happens what are some of the possibilities well first of all I don't think they're gonna say it right away but they will probably say we are interested in this can you tell us more and one of the other questions they're going to ask what else do you have because they want to know is just this person if they like you're right in the corner now what else do they have and what genre is it is this somebody that a writer that we want to kind of like maybe get a jump on their other material they're always thinking ahead because they don't want to just put all their eggs in one basket they want to know that there's somebody that's got free-flowing talent that's going to continue to build a relationship on and that's why agents are is gonna ask that of you before they take you on as a client what else do you have what else do you have and that because the studio and the producers always ask whatever what else does this guy have you know they want to know is this does this writer have more material because they would like to look at more material Kathy what are some fatal errors that a writer should avoid at all costs Wow I I think one of the things that you you need to know that it's not just one script you have to think about your whole career that you don't just bank all your hopes on this one piece of material you have to be working constantly and that things don't happen just like that one of the things I did I'm in my book is I took a survey I asked all of these writers who came into the studios and that I worked with I asked them you know a couple of questions and one of them was how long did it take you how many scripts that you have to write before you either before something major happened like you got an agent or that you got an option or somebody bought something I interviewed over 200 professional writers these are not waiter writers these are professional writers only one got her script sold the first script Wow and she said it took five years for her to get a second sale yeah and the average actually turned out to be eight or nine eight or nine scripts of scripts okay Wow so it's it's if you have to love what you do you don't want to be a one script lender it doesn't happen very often where somebody only writes one script and that's it and then nothing they have to be writing constantly and that's what agents and you know and executives are looking for and producers are looking for they want to build a relationship you'll notice that people like Spielberg and all the all the big directors you they'll all have the same credits the same same people for you know cinematographer script supervisor you know and they go to some of the same writers because they have built a relationship with them because they like their kind of storytelling because their characters speak the same language that they would like to convey to you know movie viewers and so being able to have those kind of relationships it's not just writing it's also writing the kinds of things that are going to continue that relationship so I love the fact that that most of the writers nowadays have a better understanding of that and they when I when I see the mat like script fest or great American pitch fest when I asked them I always ask them you know what else are you working on just to test them nowadays most of them will say that they have more than one that they're working on so I guess it's working I guess they are getting the getting that news that you need to have more than one piece of material and a lot of them are branching out in John rus' whereas a lot of them first with it oh I only like to do action-adventure I only like to do romantic comedy and nowadays I hear them branching out more I'm wanting to do right I thought I you know I thought I'd you know challenge myself so I thought I'd do something a little different so I'm doing a mystery right yeah and it's it's nice to hear that now that they're doing that and I do think that I think it makes it for a lot of the agents it's not just looking at material and saying what's where's that big tent pole thing it's also what does this particular writer have do they have that that it's best word to use do they have that sense of adventure of wanting to go further with their talents as a writer to go further and and look at other pieces of material and write about something that is totally different than what's out there that's interesting how do you think they can tell that someone has that sense of adventure I think just by talking to them and reading and what are you working on you know what is it because they want to know what it is that you're working on oh yeah if I'm sure if they give a one-line answer like oh I'm working on another action-adventure or I'm well you know I like comedy so I thought I'd do another comedy I say if you're only working on what one genre or one thing that they're that they that youth that maybe you you did well on your first script and you're only working on that yeah they're glad to hear that but they want to know that there's more what else are you giving them that's going to be so different cuz think they have to sell it they have to sell it the agents have to sell it to the producers or the petitioners have to sell it to the distributors or the studios so an openness and a willingness if they see that you're too closed off then maybe they realize it's a pass just because down the wrong down the line it's just not going to work okay yeah so other fatal errors our writer make either even in and just how they present themselves or oh that's a good one I feel that a lot of writers don't put enough they don't invest enough in themselves in terms of getting out there and networking most common excuses are I don't live in Hollywood or I don't know somebody in the business or you know they they you know they don't make that investment nowadays social media you can be just as up-to-date as anybody else who lives in the city because you all you have to do is just be able to go on online develop a group like I said there's writers groups that are online and go to conferences invest in yourself and that's I think that's one of the one of the best pieces of advice I can give to people consider investing in yourself if this is something you want to do if you're serious about it you go to a college you go to college if you want to be an engineer or a doctor then you have to invest in yourself if you're going to be a writer go to the writing conferences or or they now have a lot of them online do courses online invest in in getting together with other like-minded writers and going to writer retreats or do just going out and looking at all the material that's out there taking courses to you know to really further not just your writing but to further your network I don't like using the term network so much I like to say building a community of contacts and when you do that it really makes a difference because that's where a lot of the connections start getting made you know like there are people who were I have clients where one of them you know got an agent and there was another she heard that her boss or her agent that their agency was looking for somebody who had an action-adventure piece she remembered that the gal in her class and her group had one and so she got a synopsis and sent it to them now they didn't buy it but they read the synopsis and they said hey if you if you you know if you have something else you know feel free to send it to us they didn't sign her but they expressed an interest at looking at her work so just that was just built built by the fact that she was in the same writers group is this woman so that's that is one way you can you you can do that I also suggest that if if people are really serious about their writing invest in going to a consultant and really getting your material read by a professional and there's so many people that specialize and that's what's great because if you have something that you know what you should just be consultant and maybe it was just for film but look for somebody who maybe has a specialty in television or you know whatever your project is and look for someone that has those interests or who has developed material along that line there are certain parameters I think that that I know that as a consultant I don't feel I can do everything so sometimes there's what if i if somebody contacts me and they say oh I've got this horror picture and I'm not a you know I don't really I haven't done as many in the horror genre and if I don't feel I can give them exactly what they want I'm very good about recommending some of my other consultants friends who you know maybe would be better a better fit but you know finding that right person that you can consult with and help help you really restructure your work well that's important and not too you know I remember that that not long ago a lot of people said well yeah but you know I have my writers group or or you know I have a cousin that that was an English major whatever it is and yes though people like that are helpful but you want to get it from people who have either worked in the studios or have been in worked in production or have been with a producer worked in television whatever the whatever area that you're looking at you know what is the what have they done and it's important to do your due diligence it's just part of investing in yourself and taking the time to research that and I think a lot of writers don't because they're so eager they just say oh okay and they just Google consultants and 35,000 names here to come out you know it's your due diligence to go through and check them all out and to go you know and check out with other writers and find out go online and say hey you know I've got a script it's a sci-fi anybody else have a sci-fi and who did you get as a consultant and once you get a few names run them through the wringer and then Google and see who you get and who comes out on top it's word of mouth is so important I do think that you sometimes people are really good at pitching and then they don't have the material to back them up and then we have conversely right we have writers who have great material but they have not spent enough time learning how to pitch that's a huge mistake I you know you can do pitching things online you can do you can also go go - like script fest there's a lot of other you know organizations that have I think there's virtual pitch fest - but there's and I'll give you listings for that one also but you can go to these these different areas and say hey you know I want to learn more and sit in on the panels and the discussions and do some of the practice pitches and that's a lot of fun to do actually it's somewhat and I do a course in fact I'm doing one for the big break people where I'm gonna have them pitch their projects to me and I'm going to pretend that you don't be the studio exactly and it's it's gonna be a lot of fun I I look at it as a good rehearsal for them because during the the event itself the awards event they're gonna be sitting next to agents and producers and some of the people that could make or break their career you said something really interesting and I think I've brought this up in Prior interviews but I read an article about how extroverts and sometimes narcissists do much better in job interviews versus introverts and people that would actually be more well qualified for the job but they don't come across well when they present themselves so I'm imagining that's the same with pitches because I think a lot of people and this is probably why there's such great writers is they're so internal they're so like worried about things and thinking that they don't make the best impression but they might actually be the best person for the job so it sounds like that's that's a common thing with pitching that maybe people that are great show people mm-hmm that that they maybe don't have the material as much to back it up versus the ones that maybe are a little more shy or I hate to use the term mousy but you know somebody that might be less of a show person writers in general most of the writers I've met are a little bit more introverted they're they're used to working by themselves that's writing is a solitary thing unless you write with a partner but you know it's it's kind of a solitary thing and it's hard for them to express everything verbally in fact I think it's probably more terrifying for them to be able to talk about themselves than it is to talk about their scripts as well and I think that's one of the things I always have to tell writers is if you don't feel comfortable on in who you are what you should do is write your own kind of little personal story or outline of who you are as an example one of my favorites is I used to do the interviews for the Disney and internship program and there was a guy there from you CLA and he he had the most interesting story about himself and I said tell me a little bit about yourself because that's usually how a lot of us start off you know we will ask people tell us a little bit so that can kind of ease you into before you're doing the pitch and he was so funny and he just said well I grew up as a military brat and I was born and you know Germany and I spent you know five years there and then I spent four years in Thailand with my you know my dad was transferred to Thailand and then and then I I ended up in the Philippines and and anyway he says Here I am now UCLA and this is my my fifth year at UCLA and it's the longest I've ever spent anywhere and one time and he says but you know my favorite thing is I can translate anymore I can translate any movie I can read subtitles and and he named off all the languages that he had learned I thought like god what an interesting guy he he has such a beautiful worldview and think what he can bring to his stories about the diverse cultures about looking at things through a different lens than just an American lens and I then had him you know come in and he talked to the rest of our group and he talked about the same kind of thing and we all loved him and that was what nailed it for us is that he had that kind of sensibility about himself he wasn't afraid to just sort of talk about himself and but he did it in a way that made it interesting and made us realize this guy could get must give us a different he probably has the ability to give us a different voice in his writing interesting there are other there are other you know ideas that that have come across where I think people don't understand that you do have to talk about yourself to a certain extent and I think people feel uncomfortable about I think that's what I one of the things I try to do when when when I'm doing my networking classes I try to do icebreakers so that people get used to being asked about themselves and about their projects because maybe they're taught that well you don't you shouldn't be talking about yourself just be talking about your project it's a combination we are not only looking for a project we are looking for somebody we want to be in business with and that's what I'm trying to get across is that it's a two-fold thing and so when you build your network of contacts that is exactly what you should be doing you should be talking about your projects to these people you know to your group but also letting them know a little bit more about who you are as a person these things stick in our mind one guy came in and he had actually gotten a couple of jobs you know doing small little rewrites and he had done some punch up stuff for comedies and I remember he kept looking at his watch oh you're having a meeting he he was pitching a story to me he kept looking at his watch and I finally just said do you need to go somewhere do an appointment and he just said I really feel embarrassed but I'm really into fantasy baseball our fantasy baseball league I'm supposed to meet some friends and and it had been he did a movie he did a conversation with me and it was unfortunately at the end of the day and I was running late and so he was kind of concerned about that but it didn't work out but he did give me a good pitch in terms of you know I but what was funny is that one thing his honesty about saying well you don't write I'm sorry I'm just a big nerd about this fantasy baseball thing and I that's stuck in me I it was so funny six months later the head of studio said you know what my kids doing little again I want to talk to you no I think we should do something about Little League do you know how fanatical people are and about Little League and about baseball and stuff like this and and so anyway it's it was one of those things where he says we need to do a project on this and we need to find a writer so maybe we can if we can talk to a bunch of writers about this so guess whose name came immediately I thought oh let's get Kevin and so we did this thing where we had some other some of the other execs too had people that they had in mind him to come in and we listened to about five or six pitches Kevin's was like head and shoulders above all the rest because he was a fanatic about baseball it was just that one little sentence that he gave me where you're networking with people and you're letting somebody know a little bit about yourself and opening up and so that's why I want to encourage riders to do that I think it's important that they open up about who they are - I've been reading this book called lol I think the writer is Christie Deerling and it's about her life growing up poor and then she became this multimillion-dollar salesperson and and the vice president of a company she talked about what she learned that was the poverty mentality versus people that break out of that and that is a willingness to find a solution that people that stay in a poverty mentality Wow don't and those who break out they find solutions they have a problem they find a solution that being said people creating opportunities for themselves in in LA as a writer it doesn't even have to be LA but those who don't and say I don't know what to do can't find you know I've been submitting whatever verses those who find a way out of that problem what have you noticed well the it you know I think what you're saying is true I do think you know week let's let's face it we can't have it all we can't we can't be perfect in every single area and I think one of the one of the things I've noticed you were talking about late you know earlier we were talking about the fact that there are differences in how things are done in the industry now and one of the things is there are a lot more people who are who are into career counseling as consultants and sometimes when you get stuck and especially with writers because it's writers are so in usually so internal about how they they process things sometimes it's hard for them to be external and try and and get things out there and to do it the right way I know that there are several people that that are now career counselors who have really helped in that area to try and bring they talk to you and find out what it is about you that that they feel is special and and what is it about your writing that's meaningful and they try to bring that out in you and for you to use that to help you to you know with your work and I do think that that's something that that the writers can look into not just writers but I know actors and actresses too a lot of times they have to go to career coaches to help them out with that you would think actors and actresses you would think that they would be very external and very out there but a lot of actors and actresses I've met there's a lot of self-doubt sometimes behind them and so every once in a while they get get stuck that's what they they sometimes do they go to career coaches to help them out so there are career coaches that they that are specialists in terms of with writing let's say somebody at this point can't afford that what are some of the things people can do to create an opportunity for themselves it sounds like a writing group or any type of writing group is wonderful is good the more people you communicate with who are doing the same thing you are doing means more opportunities because I've noticed that if one person finds a little bit of success they're willing to share it and you know like if they get an agent or if they if they get a producer to read their material they're then ready to say oh well you know maybe I can you know help this person who has a project that maybe that producer is looking for as I mentioned earlier that that's what happened was one of my clients when she was in a writers group so I think that that that really does help I do think it also helps if you have if you go to different you know in terms of networking there are networking groups that they have here in in LA there's one that I think it's the first Friday of each month and I think it's called First Friday or something and but they have a group where people get together and they will say okay we are meeting at such-and-such usually it's a cocktail bar or something you know some some group you know restaurant or something and a lot of times there's other writers there there's also other writers who have made it who were in that group who sometimes come so there's there's things like that somebody else I know said that when they first moved here they knew no one what they did is they went they went and googled writer screenwriter meet up and they came up with a list of things and she went to every single one of those she formed her own writers group from the people that were of interest to her that really she thought she made it a connection with it she now has a lot of a lot of friends she came here knowing no one she said North Dakota and she said there was nobody in her town that you know she she put up a little thing saying any screen I should put it up the local University at that you know in her inner town and nobody there's nobody there that that said anything about yeah they're they're interested it's great so she felt okay I guess I gotta move to you know to California and so she just took a leap of faith and she did that I mean it doesn't work for everybody but it sure worked for her and she now has an agent she has been doing punch-ups she she's really a great comedy writer and so she's been doing punch ups and she's been doing some stuff for late-night they've tried her out doing some stuff for a late-night comedy work you know to do writing there so you know it's it's kind of interesting to see how people start to make slow progress just by being you know by the connections that they're making I think we all know someone that has great intentions but that maybe they just kind of wait for emails they wait by the phone and they don't do anything about it what have you seen from that sort of type that gets them out that that they stop waiting and relying on someone else and they and they start making opportunities just like the woman that started her own meetup group and I think that's an excellent idea but that's kind of scary I mean that takes a leap of yeah I get it she knew some people but I mean still it's intimidating but what do you see well I think the most she told me the most intimidating thing was moving from North Dakota up shorter that's that's scary in itself it was scary but she figured if she could do that she had nothing to look she looked at it about when she went to these meetup groups she knew nobody she figured she had nothing to lose and everything to gain and I think a lot of it is your attitude when you come in if you if you are looking for something and you really want it you make the effort to let somebody get to know you better and and it does it takes a huge leap of faith but it's it's worthwhile in the long run for most people who do put themselves out there it's not easy but you know you you have to do that I mean there are a lot of people who just give up and if they give up it meant to me it means then it's then it wasn't meant for you that that wasn't meant for you but if you stick with it something eventually is going to happen like I told you I interviewed over 200 these people who are professional writers the average was 8 scripts there was one guy who is now on staff on television he's a really good television writer and I asked him I said well gosh how did you feel you know what hey you know how many scripts it took him it took him 12 scripts Wow and I said well what did you do you know like when you woody just ate eight scripts or something he says you know what I don't know there just was something about I could not stop I mean it became like I'm gonna do this and he just had to do it and he just kept writing and writing and he finally got to that 12th script and I and I saw I said to him I said she I'd like to read some of those first ten scripts and he goes no I don't think he want to and I said well yeah but I'd like to see what they were like and he goes you know what I I don't let anybody read them I said well do you still have him because yeah I haven't been a drawer in the bottom of my desk and I said well why are you keeping him then and he said it's to keep me humble because how could I even think I look at those ten eyes how could I even think that I was a writer when I read those 10 scripts I mean that's it it just amazed me and this guy's quite successful I mean he makes six figures a year you know as a writer and he's doing quite well but it took him that long and so it does it you have to have that determination you just have to do it you know if you you can't just say well you know well I guess it's not gonna happen it's like you have to do I always tell people it's like you're knocking on Hollywood's door they aren't gonna answer if you're you know you're not gonna get that door open if you don't answer you just give them the answers or you don't tell them anything what it is that you want and it's not just what you want you have to show them what you have so want and have or two different things you know you can dream about it but you have to make the dream come true dreaming about it and not doing anything about it all right that's that's the difference between success and failure and I some of the people that I've seen that I've known for years who now are doing quite well in the business it's because they deserved it they really stuck to it they just couldn't help themselves they had to keep writing and they believed enough to themselves that they said you know I got to do this a lot of times they had to take two or three jobs in order to do it a lot of times they family and marriage and family came and you know and went in between all of that because I asked one of them on time his wife was a teacher and they have twins and so he had to be the one to stay home and take care of the twins which is not easy and I asked him how did you do it and get your assignments in on time and he said he basically had to stay up at night and do it he would set the alarm he'd go to sleep at 10 o'clock he would get up at 3 o'clock in the morning do the feeding and then he would work for three hours straight until he got and he gave himself you know that he would have to write so many words you know or Saurus or how many scenes or whatever it is and that's how he did it he just stuck to it and he said there were times when he would sit there and he would be waiting and waiting for those words to come and it wouldn't and he finally would just start writing down random words and pretty soon he would come across something he said it would just like oh wait a minute that word oh okay and then pretty soon it would start to flow and he says he doesn't understand it to this day he just knows it happened and he said he just that's what he he did but he always made sure he said even on those times when he felt like he couldn't do it he just felt he had if he wasn't going to write he was gonna sit there and stare at that page and just write random words until something came to him because he felt he had to at least physically be doing it or physically typing it up for him to be able to feel that okay even if I don't come if I didn't I'm not sitting here with an idea in mind I'm just gonna keep typing something until something strikes me and that's literally how he said he got some of his assignments done he some of them were some of it was trash you know he didn't you know he would type for an hour and nothing would come up and then all of a sudden something would click so I think he just felt that he had to do it he forced himself to do it and it worked for him and he had the weirdest hours but it worked for him should a writer aim for a certain amount of rejections per year and if they're not getting those rejections and that means they're probably not getting out there enough Santa interesting way to look at it or maybe I'm too negative here that's entirely possible I you know I don't know if there is such a thing as a certain number of rejections you know whether you are setting the bar for something you know for failure or not I think you know instead I would turn it around and say okay I think once a week set a goal for doing at least one piece of marketing or two pieces of marketing I think that's a better way of looking at it than saying okay I've had 10 I've reached the threshold of 10 rejections this month so I'm not gonna do anything now I mean that to me is more negative so I would I would say okay let's do this in in a week let's let's look why don't I look up you know five different places that I can send out letters or that I can send emails to or why don't I look up ten different resources for competent screen screenwriting competitions or something doing something like that I think is much more productive because you never know when one of those are gonna come but to just say well okay if I did this many rejections then that means I it because who knows if you didn't do that next one to fine pieces of marketing marketing just means making the effort to get out there whether it's posting something you know that that you feel is you know like there are places that you can post your your story ideas you know and your your synopses and then if someone's interested they will then contact you and then you can let them you know look at your script and they can you can get your script read so you can post your projects you can be you can you know to me it's not just posting a project it's also like making plans to enter a competition making plans to send out you know to go to a conference or something those are positive things that are moving in the direction and you have to invest in yourself I understand that sometimes people go yeah but it cost money to enter a competition or yeah it costs money to go to a conference well you know if you if you if you're really if you're really serious about it you have to make the investment in yourself somehow and so maybe you have to be a little bit more frugal about things okay maybe I can only spend ten dollars or something or twenty dollars or whatever it is a week that I'm going to do this to sock that away for it but whatever it is you make those plans I mean that's that's just it I mean I know that I I have clients who have done who did it for years before something happened for them but now things are working for them or they really feel like they can't and they're really doing some some really good work and it takes a lot of time you can't just expect it to happen overnight it because it doesn't and that that certainly that survey I took of all those professional writers proves that it doesn't work overnight it took that one writer who did 12 speak 12 scripts before he got an agent I think he said he he wrote those 12 scripts over 15 years oh wow and you were sounds like you were very surprised to hear that numbers I was and you I was this is this is a guy who was a top writer you know yeah you would think that oh well you know something must have happened and right away something you know that that it would continue and continue but and also like the the one guy I told you about who on her first script got somebody to read it and buy it but it took her five years and had four more scripts before she got somebody to option her second one and it never got made unfortunately they optioned it at a studio and then a new set of people came in and you know and they didn't want to continue with that particular script but you never know I mean those that's how how this business is you know I'm hearing that a lot of regime change and and how should someone stay current because it is difficult when a new group of people who don't know you and maybe they had sort of a relationship with you come in how do you ingratiate yourself to a new regime well it's hard to personally do that but to be aware of it what you need to do is like and especially if you have a writers group if you guys together get a subscription you know to the reporter or the brighter whatever one you want you choose and you guys share that share the subscription and you know in fact there's there's people who have writers group where people take turns doing it so that once a month they they rattle off ok here's what here's what I read and you know and here's and here's the latest news of that that I've gotten and then that the next person next month another person doesn't so that everybody is well but reports everything back to everyone and I think that's a nice way of being able to do it's networking but it's also getting out really good solid information hey so-and-so is no longer at the head of this this production company hired a new story editor this but you know it's information that that is valuable to the whole group and that's that's how you keep current naturally if you have an agent or manager they should already know these things but don't count and this is another I think a mistake that a lot of writers make they feel that if they have an agent or a manager they don't need to do anything right and one of my friends one of my best friends actually has won an Oscar and she tells me that a lot of her a lot of things that happened it's not because she has an agent or a manager it's because she made the effort to go out and talk to people and to find out what was going on and you know she's kept up her even though she lives out of town she doesn't live in Los Angeles but she keeps up with email and you know phone calls and she is in touch with a lot of the producers and production people that she used to do business with when she was living down here and she said it's been the most valuable lesson that she's learned is to keep those contacts and send Christmas cards or to give him a call every once in awhile and you'd be surprised one of the things is that she happened to write a movie for somebody who was at a television star of a television show I'm not gonna mention the name of it or anything but that actress her star really rose and what happened is my friend happened to see her at at a Writers Guild event and went up to her and talked to her and the woman looked at her and she goes oh my god you're the one who wrote the script for that movie is the week that helped my career shoot up and it was like she she remembered her name because of that I think you know and so she says you know if you get a chance you know if you if you're writing something you think I might be good for it please let me take a look at it and sure enough a year later and my friend since that said it to her and so they took a look at it there I don't know if it's anything has come of it yet but I do know that that it's something that is on their mind so it's on their radar and they might be doing it there's some other material that she's doing that other commitments she has so you never know you know going back to the idea of focusing on solutions and not wallowing in well I can't do this or whatever let's say there is a regime change and you can just tell that the relationship that was once there the fit that the the culture of that place has changed and maybe you're not a fit anymore how can someone find a solution and that instead of wallowing in well they don't want me and I'm gonna feel bad to keep keep track of where that initial person was where did he or she go because they are gonna have an influence their mindset their preferences and genres or whatever are going to be going to another production company or another agency or another network or whatever find out where that other person goes interesting okay and you could send a little thing up congratulations on your new home at such-and-such you know I really enjoyed working with you and I'm sorry that that I'm sorry to hear that you won't will no longer be at such-and-such but I'm really happy that you're at this new position position and I think that helps it kind of keeps the relationship going okay that's that's a great way so the solution is then you find the place where you were a fit and the person that you did sort of work well with and you just say hello see that you've moved on congratulations on the new job and instead of trying to beat your head against a wall and say they don't want me anymore gotta try not to take your person okay right cuz like I said there's always that there's a thousand scripts that come to the studios every month those are scripts that call come from agents and producers and entertainment attorneys which is by the way is another way you could that if you on a higher an entertainment attorney it's costly but a lot of people will sometimes do that but in all aspects of the business here it seems like groups change their there's a lot of people they move from one position to another and that can really make or break how easy it is for someone to continue a relationship and the opportunities there it just could be a simple thing as they don't really know you and they already have people in place that they do know and so instead of letting that stop you finding those people and where they go it's I mean it's so funny because the industry the entertainment industry is mimicking corporate corporate stuff that that we grew up with I mean I you know I love people there their parents work for the same company their whole life you don't do that it's the same thing people used to work for studios that was all they they only worked at one studio or maybe two studios it's not like that anymore and besides that it used to be like that was kind of frowned on that the if you were jumping around your job the job you know and I remember my parents they were kind of concerned well you're not at Disney and now you're over at Island and now you're over at Paramount what's going upon you know how are you ever gonna you know are you gonna find a home you know I'm gonna find a company you want to work with and I said it's not that I don't want to but you know their needs and my needs change and so sometimes you know if you're not a good fit you're not a good fit that's one thing is is that one of it and that's actually one of the reasons why I decided to leave the corporate end of things uh you know rather than to work in the studio system because that's that wasn't what I like to do my goal was not to run a studio when I was doing it was because I enjoyed working with writers the further up the ladder you get the less you're working with the writers you you're then having to work with with more with the agents and the producers and then you know and I loved working with the writers that was that that really always has been my favorite thing to do and the thing that I think where my strengths shine through so becoming a consultant was was a no-brainer for me we've talked to John Truby and he said to us when we interviewed him that Hollywood doesn't really buy and sell screenplays it buys and sells genres do you agree to certain extent yeah I do they are looking for material because because they are corporation they are looking for material that can be transitioned to a lot of different platforms story they're looking for stories that can that aren't just movies but they can be games they can be plays they can be musicals they can be a book they can be a graphic novel and vice versa all of those other things like there are a lot of graphic novels my favorite story about a graphic novel that became a movie was one called snowpiercer which was just amazing and I was worried that they would not be able to capture it in a movie but they did a very good job on it but there are a lot of different things you annual notice and most of the superhero ones came from the comics so transmedia sounds like okay well it's not I mean it's not just transmedia I to me it's it's like just it's it's adaptation we usually think of adaptation of only being from books to film but adaptation means just taking one piece of material a story or a piece from that section from that and putting it into another way of expressing it it's just like I was at Disney when they were doing Beauty and the Beast or redoing Beauty he says you know as a modern animated story with all the wonderful songs and everything Jeffrey Katzenberg loved that story in a song so much that he had it come here I mean he had it turned into a musical here so we actually had it before Broadway had it it became so popular here that they eventually took it to Broadway now they are turning it into a live-action one it's gonna be shown I think it's in March next month it's now gonna be an actual live action so it's sort of like it's taking different routes but it's being used it's the same basic story but they're using it in different ways you know and finding you know new audience to look at it and and some of the fans of the story are gonna come back anyway and see it in the new form as a live action instead of it just doesn't animated movie potential pitfalls or traps a screenwriter should be aware of when trying to sell their screenplay pitfalls hmm I think the biggest one is don't try and make your project be one of those where you're forcing trying to force it into being what they think the studio wants or what that production company wants that's a big pitfall for me because then somewhere along the line I think you sometimes will lose the heart of what your project is I know I know a lot of times they they will ask for a request to do something to it and you you do need to if they bought it it is their project and so I think a lot of writers sometimes immediately are very protective of their project and they don't and they say well yeah I'll sell it to you but you can't do this or you know I mean that's sort of a first reaction what they have to understand is that they've got stockholders usually that they have to answer to and and there's when money is involved there are some changes they have to make I think when they when you are just in the talking stages sometimes they make writers make the biggest mistake is when they start being too too concerned about all of that and I want them to understand it's good to listen first to what they have to say before reacting immediately and jumping all over it I think you need to listen to what people have to say and then talk it over with your agent or talk it over with the creative executives there which is the kind of work to do and a lot of times I had to explain to him the reason why they asked for a certain change maybe it was because of budget a lot of times it's because maybe they got a director and the director maybe didn't like a certain aspect of it or maybe it was an actress or an actor and maybe their acting range doesn't cover sufficiently the emotional impact of a certain scene I mean there's a lot of reasons that that people don't understand about it so if you are fortunate enough that somebody is optioning or buying your project and they are asking for things it's not because they don't like it they want to see it get made and sometimes it's because of certain reasons and you need to sit down and talk to somebody about it don't just immediately get you know all up in arms and just I know I'm not gonna do that and I hate this I did you know listen to what people have to say sometimes it's something that says a small enough thing and there's sometimes there's this way she can compromise half of my job when I was a creative exactly was trying to find the best way to still keep the project there as the writers vision as well but sometimes if you have a director who's a big name you have to waive the consequences do we do you want to keep the big are they going to keep the big name director or or the first-time writer and it's a real easy thing for the studio it's if they figure we've already bought it we don't need the writer to come back and do the rewrite and you want to stay in business with people so you have to learn when to to fight and when to listen to what's being said and when to give in you know and it doesn't mean you completely give in talk to the you talk to the creative because usually there's at least two execs there's the the usually there's a VP and usually there's a creative exec talk to the creative can find out their reasons why and see if there's some way that there can be some kind of a compromise to it and a lot of times that was that like I said that's that was a great deal of my the that I did was working with the writers and I think that's why I was as successful as I was is that the writers liked the fact that I would talk with them and I wasn't afraid to say well okay here are some that here are some options we can do which of these options do you think fits your story best if I would give them options then they felt they were more in control I wanted to give that to them so they wouldn't feel that everything was lost to them I think sometimes executives have a way of being very to-the-point and very Bruce Lee okay we need to change this scene doesn't work and sometimes they don't explain why that's part of what a creative exec does and so I think that that's something that you know if you're not sure if writers are not sure they should talk to somebody and just say can you explain that to me in a little more detail because I wasn't quite sure what it means that it doesn't work exactly what is it about it that it didn't work so I don't know if that I hope that that helps because I do I do feel that there have been a lot of writers who have lost an opportunity to have their work produced because they immediately jumped up and they just said no I won't do it because they were too precious with it mm-hmm and they didn't even want to listen to what you know the explanations or anything how many working Hollywood writers do you know that don't live in Hollywood oh gosh I think once once you do quite well in terms of film you can work just about anywhere I know several writers in Hollywood that that don't work in Hollywood they live somewhere else and you know nowadays with technology you can just you can you don't even have to come down for meetings you can just do it by the web and it works out quite well so that's the good part about it but in order to get established sometimes it's a little harder for the first-timers to be able to you know to do that but even then it's better than it used to be because sometimes what they do is if they likes it like as a for instance one of my clients actually was one of the finalists and in one of the script competitions and they there was an agent that was interested in his work and so the agent set up a meeting on the internet and now he's represented I mean so it's you don't necessarily always have to come here I mean it's not you sometimes you might have to for television television is one of those things where you sometimes are on the set making changes making Krista script changes so if your goal is to work in television sometimes I understand that you you do need to sort of be here they like staff writers here on the set because they're always changing things around and they also have to work for especially in comedies they're working with comedians and so when you change something it's got to fit into that person's how he delivers things what hit what what is his style of comedy and so it's got to be you got to be right there with him so that he can you know when he's you're making those changes he can approve them or he can try them out I know you've interviewed over 200 writers for your book of that group or even others that you've known through groups what sort of against all odds' screenwriter story has really stuck out to you where it seemed like success was never going to happen you don't have to name the project or really any identifying things about the person but just something that it just seemed like this person was never going to cross over to a level of success that they wanted and they did and it was pretty amazing I think the example that I gave you earlier about the guy that he it wasn't into his 12th script that he finally got an agent and even when he got the agent it still took two more years before he finally got something option so you know it's it's a long process but I I am so proud of him because he stuck with it and I think you know he he just I always ask him I asked him about it I said you know I just still don't can't believe that you that you just stuck with it that long and he says I don't know what it is he says but after about nine or ten scripts I wasn't gonna get let it get the best of me I just felt I had to keep going and he did it and it's just you know it's one of those triumphs of the human spirit thing you know it's like I'm I'm not gonna damn I'm not gonna let this happened to me I'm just gonna keep at it and he kept doing it what really helped is that he had a daughter that really believed in him and she was a little girl when he was starting to write all these scripts and she was in college by the time that you know he finally got a you know a script sold and everything and she just said there was something about my dad she says he just wouldn't let up he just kept doing it and she you know she's so proud of him in-between there was a divorce so which was not a good thing and and I was worried about him at that point I mean there was just something really special though about him and I I to this day though I you know I we still exchange you know Christmas cards and stuff like that but he just is a wonderful individual and I am so you know when I think about people trying to make it nobody deserved it more than he did he just stuck with it he would not let it get get him down what are some common mistakes that you see web series creators make over and over again oh gosh I think one of one of the things is that a lot of people don't understand exactly what a web series is and sometimes that what they're trying to do is they're trying to take maybe a script that they a film script that's like $100 $189 vision set you just click the remote and if you change channels and you can click and go up go to another web series very very easily if you don't catch someone's attention right away and people don't understand that you can't just take a film script and chop it up and that's it you have 90 minutes or a hundred minutes to tell a whole story you need to capture somebody's attention right away within the first two or three minutes so a lot of people especially cuz I'm with a la webcast I'm on there they're bored and one of our common complaints when we get people sending in things in is they will have web series that are sometimes 15 20 25 minutes long that's not a web series that's a short film and so we in fact a lot of the web web fests people now we're trying to limit it to keep it because a web series is this it we like to show them and we like to show as many episodes as we can but we can't if somebody's got 25 minute episodes then it's taking up too much time so we tell people a web series you know if it's comedy it shouldn't be longer than about 6 minutes if it's a drama no more than 8 to 10 minutes at the most per episode so I think it's understanding that web series should be looked at as as its own medium and not that oh this is a movie and just cut up into little pieces interesting and how many episodes would you recommend most web series have you know the average web series I've seen some that were as little as maybe 4 or 5 episodes for one season I would say the average is 8 to 10 a season you know and dramas tend to be slightly longer as I mentioned that most of them I would say are between 8 to 10 minutes and the comedies are usually more like 4 to 6 minutes some of them are as short as a minute and a half two minutes what are your thoughts of a web series creator making a web series and aiming for sponsorship right away I'm hearing that from a lot of webster's we all we're looking for spot and that's like the only goal behind it well if you don't have a if you don't have a product you're not to get a sponsor I mean it's like it's the same thing as saying okay I gotta find a studio to distribute my movie well you haven't written the movie yet so I think a lot of people get misled into thinking well as long as I have this crowdfunding campaign going and I can get money raised then you know I can I can do all of this most of the webseries people that I've talked to a lot of them they just start off just because they felt they needed to do it and they wanted to do it now they and they had so much fun it was just a bunch of people a lot of times they they were cousins or brothers and sisters siblings or some a lot of times it was just kids in a dorm that just decided let's let's do one you know and they just did it and they would we've had some that have been as primitive as just using your iPhone and we had some that have been very sophisticated where you know they actually is wonderful you know technical things with camera and stuff like that and some have one you know brilliant you know special effects and all that it just depends on where you're at and what your story is some of the more successful stories though I think are the ones that are done just because these people felt they needed to be done and they just they and they had an interesting set of characters in an unusual circumstance as an example you know some of this I love the stories that come behind the webseries and and one of the things that I've that I've been doing is I've been asked to go to the different web fests around the world talking about web series that concern social issues and it was very interesting is that one of them is called fafsa teen and it was about there basically it was called faceting because it was about a situation in Lebanon and Beirut Lebanon the creator of it her name is Katya and she she lived in and you know grew up in in Lebanon middle-class family or upper-middle class I don't know they own some apartments and she did her college work in London because there weren't any universities that she felt that they she could go to in in Lebanon that would support the fact that she wanted to do Communication and television and stuff like that so Louis she her family sent her up there she actually did quite well she started working for the BBC and she was there al Jazeera contact because she could just be you know several different languages and she even got some awards for her work but her parents were getting older and so she made the decision to move back to Beirut and you know stay with her her family for a while and maybe see if maybe things how things were there and she realized when she met with some of her friends that she had grown up with that a lot of things had gotten worse and in Lebanon they you know of course had had you know there were some bombings and and there were areas where where neighborhoods where it used to be safe and they're no longer safe and she realized there was something that she wanted to say and she felt that women especially were the ones who who are not progressing and in Lebanon her FAFSA teen is about three women who eventually become best friends and one is her husband has left her with their kid at his parents place he's through with marriage he doesn't want that he doesn't want to be married he doesn't want to be a father and she is left by herself with her with their young child and with the in-laws and she doesn't know what she should do she just if she does not get along with the in-laws they blame her for everything wah yep my our has our son wouldn't have left if you were a good wife or you were a good mother and constantly blaming her so she needs to find a place to stay she ends up staying finding a place to stay in an apartment building and the gal who was the daughter of the apartment owner it's very creative and and she likes to make movies and she likes to you know she's just curious about things and she writes and she does poetry and she's just very creative and and her father keeps saying when are you just gonna settle down and get married I should just marry you off and of course she doesn't want that and so the father those I mean they're the parents are well-meaning but they're very old-fashioned about it but she she talks sweet talks her father and accepting this woman to be in one of their apartments the woman has to work and so she takes the the son she needs a tutor for oh no what is it no she she's a tutor and so she tutors for this woman who is very wealthy and seat but she has a couple of kids but her husband works in Dubai and so she's by herself but she's got a nanny she's got all this but she needs a tutor so the woman who's whose divorce is the tutor but it's these three women who actually become very good friends and what she did at the end of each web series was they got to vote on the ending the audience the audience has got to vote for the ending and then they would show the ending at the beginning of the next episode on them whichever one got the vote and I asked her well why did you do that and she said I wanted to give women the opportunity to vote to have an option because they have so few options in my country and FAFSA teen won the grand prize at the Marseilles web fest Wow and I'm sorry what was the name of her arrested Jean Vasa - yes okee en great yeah and it's a it's an amazing one yeah there's another one that's great a gal named teal Sherer always wanted to be an actress ever since she was a little girl unfortunately at the age of 14 she was in a horrible car accident and she was paralyzed and from the waist down and so she was in a wheelchair but she didn't stop her she just was determined she also was a dancer when she went to college she helped to put together a dance group that was comprised of people with disabilities and non-disability z' and and she got a degree in communication and theatrical in theatre arts she moved to Los Angeles and was trying to get parts but of course there's no don't seem to very many parts were but she met this one gal Felicia day who created the first noon websit one of the first web series called the guild and Felicia created a character for her because she thought it was perfect because all of her casts is our people that are their characters are ones that sit in front of the games and they just do games all day they're gamers and they all quirky people and so perfect the scales are like wheelchairs so they only steer from here up anyway so she did that and teal thought about it and she says you know I I think I should do with a webseries about all the trials and tribulations of what it's like for me being a struggling actress in a wheelchair and so it she created it as a comedy which is what I loved about it is that it was taking a social issue and it was giving it a comedic twist to it so people were being advised of what was going on they were being advised of how tough difficult it is for people with disabilities what are some of the misconceptions or stereotypes that people have about people with disabilities things like even as simple as people talking louder to them because they think they can't yeah well I can't walk it's not like I can't yeah the people feeling they needed to talk differently to people just because they have a disability but teal is just an amazing gal her hers is called my gimpy life okay and and I just absolutely loved it and I I talked about her at least like kay web fest in Seoul Korea hello and it was interesting because afterwards a gal came up and she said I'm so glad you would you told us about about this woman who's disabled because my sister younger sister has a leg deformity and she can't walk the way everybody else is she can't even run she can't you know play sports or anything and she just stays in a room and she keeps to herself and she just watches things on the computer and she doesn't socialize but she says you know I've got to show this to her so she could see what can be done and because she is so involved with the computer and looking at me she watches she streams stuff all the time because she doesn't she doesn't even watch television with her friends she just watches things on the computer because she's very so you know she's not anti-social but she's I think she's just feels less conspicuous she feels more comfortable being by herself so anyway it was really interesting I just it warmed my heart to know that just by one person knowing about they could help this this her sister so I went and told teal about it I called her and I said teal you're not gonna believe this and I told her what the story and she said oh my god and she said it made her cheer up just to know that her web series got through to somebody else and that it's it's making a change and it's this is in Korea that this woman is yeah and I said you now have a fan base in Korea so web series are especially the ones that have social issues and a lot more women now are able I noticed a lot more women who are creators producers directors and acting in webseries than the percentage in film and television which is pretty amazing too so women are very much in charge in web series is a really good opportunity to break in in that way and just as an example of some people who have broken in there's a gal named Issa Rae yeah and she came to our first one I first in our second one with misadventures of awkward black girl which has now been into insecure and with hbl and has just like it's been and they're there already you know doing the next season's episodes some amazing and more importantly she got nominated for a Golden Globe in her first year Wow another example there's a new you-know-who Randall Park is for the name uh-huh okay Randall Park starred in two web series and he even got some awards at the LA web fest and then he got hired on fresh off the boat oh wow he plays the father and fresh mouth okay and so he's stunning incredibly well Gina Rodriguez who was with Jane the version she starred in a couple of web series and she got nominated and won a Golden Globe in her first year as jane the virgin so all of these people got their start and Issa especially she created the role learned how to direct it she had to eat because you sometimes you take on multiple jobs more than in webseries because you don't have enough money to have individuals hired for that but she wrote directed and starred in it what are the key steps in developing a webseries I know you said before it's not really a film script so you can't really divide it up and just say oh great well these two pages are gonna be the first episode you know you've got to design it especially it sounds like for that five minute time period I think the most the most important thing is you have to have a character that you that you feel will hold the audience's interest and he or she has to be involved in something that is relatable so using something that's of personal interest to the creator is it's probably one good way to start start with an area of expertise that you're good at there's a guy named Ed and I forgotten his last name but he had a web series and his was about a guy who was a chef and the guy just he he he could create great food with the women he just couldn't do it and he what he did was he started off with that premise you know what is that what does a guy got to do you know and the fact that he eventually became you know became a chef you know shows his trial and error of him eventually becoming a chef and eventually making contacts and it's very funny because one of his favorite things as he goes to the same sushi shop a couple of times a week and the real reason he goes it's not just because he likes the sushi because he has a crush on this one gal who works there and unfortunately he sees this asian guy come in and giving giving you know give me the gal hug and everything and then and all this and saying I missed you and all this so he thinks oh my god she's got a husband or a boyfriend so you know and she's interested in him too you know and she flirts with him and and always asking him oh how are you doing and all this it's really cute and it turns out by the end of the first season at the I think the last episode he finds he finds out that that's her brother and and then the the the love interest starts as the love interest and everything grows from that but it's starting off with something that you and may be in an area that you know about like in his case it was in fact his I think his uh his web series cuz it's called pairings oh okay you know mm-hmm and so you usually think of pairings is like okay what wine goes with this kind of dinner or whatever but it talks about you know it's it's a play on words about you know what it was like for this poor guy who's a good cook but just can't see he can cook everything in anything but he just can't seem to get a gal yeah but he did he take this from his own experience he was a chef or he is a chef yeah okay and in fact he uses that as a way to advertise what he does is he will say if you subscribe to our you know to our web series and it doesn't cost anything to subscribe and in his case it didn't he says I'll you know you'll get this week's recipes oh yeah so something a little different but just something that's you know which kind of makes it interesting for the viewer and the fans and as it turns out this guy now is going to be I think at last I heard someone told me that he was planning on doing a cookbook and that there's also an olive oil company I believe and a winery that advertised now so he got sort of it so I mean he didn't purposely go out to do that so we were talking a little bit about you know well I have to find a sponsor first in this case the sponsor found right so so build it and then wait you know sort of that then Field of Dreams yeah and there's a don't but don't set out to have a beer only if you don't have the story mmm-hmm you know you you know I in his case he just was fascinated by by webseries and he always you know enjoyed writing and telling stories so for him to do that and to you know his day job was what was being a chef right and so it he combined the two of them and so I think that's you know there are no okay first you do this this isn't that you know there's it's hard to it's the same thing as any kind of writing you got to sit down put your button the chair her and do it that's that's the first step and he you know most of the successful web series I've seen a lot of them started off by taking a character not unlike sometimes themselves and trying to see okay what area of what is it surrounding what's the environment like another friend of mine that did a web series did one she's lesbian and she notice that there weren't any lesbian webseries and she wanted to talk about the fact that a lot of people don't understand that really you know no matter what your sexuality is people have stories and they have the same fears and insecurities that all of us go through when we're in a relationship and so she did did one and it's it's in Australia and it's called starting from now and it's becoming an internet sensation they have fans all over the world and they want a lot of awards but she took the world that she was in and she thought how can how can I do something that's going to be interesting and yet you know and and have characters that I think people are gonna care about and when you look at it those characters they worry about their job just like we do they worry about what their families are gonna think just like we do they worry about what the political situations are like or what they're worried about people cheating on them and you see all of those things play out they are now finishing up I think they may have finished up by now their fifth season oh so they've done incredibly well what's the name of that one it comes starting from now starting from now okay and it's just it's based in Australia but you can see it here I mean you can just google it you'll it'll come up I just want to switch gears for a second and we'll talk about authors just really quickly so what should authorize in industry approach versus writing a book versus writing a screenplay well first of all you can't sell anything till you have a product and so having a book is is the the first thing getting it published and what's the the with self-publishing I know a lot of people now saying well it's self-publishing and I've published a book that sometimes you know that some some places will accept that some places won't what I find interesting though is that in most of the major publishing houses there is a rights division and what you need to do is find if your novel and you think your your novel is something that could be adapted into a movie or a TV series or whatever go to the whoever heads up the rights department and find out how they feel about it and can they send something out why sends your book out to maybe producers or a particular actress or or whatever publishing houses usually can do that whether they will or not I think it depends on how overworked they are but that's that's really how a lot of books end up in Hollywood is because somebody in the rights department at the publishing house sometimes even when they buy the rights and it hasn't even been published yet it's just they've signed the contract but they've already read the story and thought god I could see this is a movie that sometimes it automatically will just go to one of the studios I know you talked about in your book on writing and it was a chapter 12 group therapy for writers what you say is getting the most out of writing conferences and writers groups just as there's different you know some actors are great in certain classes and sometimes it's not a fit how does someone know if it's a fit in terms of the writing group how do we know that you know what this is the writing group for me or maybe nice people but I need to move on I don't know if this is really the fit for me I think it depends on where you're at certainly if you've written a couple of books a couple of short short stories or something and you've you know if you have some material behind you already whether or not it's published or not but you've you've written a body of work you have things to show I think it's it's you may not want to be in a ranked beginning one a ranked beginning group you may want to find a group that's already you know where everybody has at least they're almost finished with their first one or they actually have had something published or they have a couple of short stories that they've done or something in other words it's not just starting off at the very beginning I haven't written anything yet and this is a beginning writers group you want to try and find one that's at the same level that you are at the same time for people who just finished writing their first thing or just about ready to you know try and get their work out there finding a writers group that's in their same genre is also very helpful mystery writers have a lot of groups children's books they have a lot of groups in fact and I'm gonna be doing a workshop for our children's book writers and a couple of days they're you know finding it in the genre that you're in is important because not it's not just general book writing yeah we're just going to do this and you know because if it's if you're writing in mysteries or romance novels you know historical dramas those kind of books if you're in a particular genre of a book it's best to be in a group that also has the same type of focus it because certain agents look for certain only certain kinds of genres in writing so you know this is what's helpful is that you know again they have regular writing conferences to South Carolina Writers Pacific Northwest writers California writers has went to the Greater Los Angeles area writers group there's one looks like says gloss gla to us there's a lot of them all over the place and and usually every state has at least one or two writing conferences where agents come and you can book five ten-minute appointments for them to take a look at your work order or us where some of them will read like the first the synopsis and tell you whether or not they feel that your book is a good fit for them or not and sometimes you know they've people been very successful in that so writing conferences for novelists are also quite good if you do that and writing groups like the South Carolina Writers I mean they're they have writers in all different arenas and they break off into smaller groups according to you know genres and now where does someone find these local writing groups I was this like meetup yeah meetup is a great one yeah meetup is a really really good one in fact there's a gal I know who who writes and what she does is when she knows she's gonna be you know going on vacation or something she has an agreement with her husband that he takes care of the kids for one day and she goes and finds a meet-up at wherever they're going for a writers group and she just she's so funny she she's I told her what she should do is she should write a short story about it because she has met so many interesting people at these meet up once and it's great because then she has hosted some of these people from the different mud when they come to her city they do that she meets up with them and she so she's made a lot of friends that way too I noticed with some of these meetups not just even writing groups but there's a there's a cost to join it's you know and and I get why because someone's hosting it maybe they have material that they're providing and also I think they want to know are these people going to be serious and not just show up so what do you think is a reasonable cost to join for a writers group whether it's per week or per month gosh you know I really don't know because I the ones that I've seen it's usually maybe per event mm-hmm and it depends like the children's writers group that that that I am going to be speaking at it's $45 but it includes my book okay and so my book is $20 so it's it's you know they and the rest of the money helps to pay for the venue sure and refreshments and and and that so you know I think you just have to gauge it a lot of them though I've noticed they're free to a non Meetup okay on meetup I've seen some that are just per bar are free they don't but it's just a meeting it's just just a bunch of writers getting together and just talking about all the different things that you know about anything to do with writing and maybe they discuss you know a little bit about their you know about their material and and all that so it's it's it depends I mean some of them there are no costs I've seen somewhere where it doesn't say anything about a cost but I've also seen some that were as high as 50 $60 and usually though it's because there's a speaker and you have to pay the speaker or you or in this case for the children book writers you actually get a copy of the book so you're getting something in return as well you're getting a book as well as being able to hear it hear a workshop what about the public library do they offer writing groups I mean do they organize that or no you know I think they used to but I just you know I hate to say it but at least here in California I've noticed what's very sad is that libraries are at risk yeah and not just down here in Southern California in central California where I live it's it's like that too they just can't sponsor those kinds of things library hours are being cut shorter notice to do you I mean I remember when I could go to the library at 8 o'clock at night and make my Xerox copies if I needed something done or something and I noticed now it now closes at 5:30 they used to be open all day Saturday and Sunday I noticed they're not open on Sunday same with art but certain other towns are but not City of LA where we are yeah and I think it just depends on the area that you're in you know where I do think they've got a great system is San Francisco San Francisco Public Library System is beyond par it's just as amazing and they have speakers that come constantly and it's free that's wonderful yeah so it's a you know meetup groups are great if you live in San Francisco go to check out the public libraries they do they and there's a lot of writers who live in and around that Bay Area that actually come and speak for free whenever one of their new books comes out you know I know you've been a big proponent of writers asking questions questions concerning anything about their career or whatever but why would a writer be afraid to ask questions I think people in general sometimes are afraid to ask questions for whatever reason a lot of times and I and I used to be this way too when I was a kid I used to think well if I asked a question people are going to think I'm stupid or that I you know why would I ask the court I must not know what I'm doing and it's the same I think the older we get well a lot of times you know how many of you out there you know have been afraid to ask their boss you know a question because you don't know what they're gonna say are they gonna think you're stupid or you don't know what you're doing I think sometimes asking questions if you know and you especially if you're asking them and you phrase it in a way that that is asking for advice I think then people love it but people like being asked for advice so I always believe there's something I call the open-ended question the open-ended question is is saying something in a way where you are not asking for a question that has a yes-or-no answer you want to get information and this is especially helpful when you maybe have won an interview with somebody you know like if you're pitching and you maybe have finished your pitch and they have finished giving you feedback and if they say oh do you have any other questions that's the perfect time for an open-ended question such as what are some of the genres that you guys are interested in doing in the future you know that's not a yes or no answer and it's getting valuable information so that you know oh okay you know if they say oh well you're we're looking for an action piece or something like that or I'm looking for a romance novel or something you know if you have something like that that's a perfect way for you to then say oh you know I've got a I've got a romantic comedy and and you can do a logline on it and you know it's it's halfway done and you know would you be interested in taking a look at it one I mean it's a way of breaking the ice too and opening up your conversation so an open-ended question is just the most amazing thing it's not asking something that's oh well do you like this or not that's yes or no no you're asking for their advice other quite other kinds of examples of open-ended questions what do you think about that or not you know you mentioned such and such as as being a problem can you can you give me some examples of this so you haven't better idea you're extending the one you're extending the conversation to your gathering more information and three you're establishing a relationship a back and forth relationship they're going to remember they are more likely to remember that conversation with you should you contact them later you know and especially if you do a little thank-you note that says you know that says dear so-and-so thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions I really enjoyed talking with you and about you know such and such as mentioned I have a I finally finished my romantic my romance novel or my romance comedy or whatever and here's a you know I'm attaching a little short paragraph about it and if you think this is of interest I mean you've started now a relationship how successful that relationship is I'm not sure but at least you that's the way you start a relationship and that's how you you know if by answering and asking open-ended questions within your own writers group as well that's where I say start to practice there first then you can start using it on things like when you go to pitch fest or when you go to meet with them maybe you know somebody who's who's a producer or an agent or something so that's you know to me that's that's the best way to start getting your your work out there and getting yourself used to it is asking questions yeah and I think it indicates interests too and definitely you know because if someone says well degree do you have any questions for me no think so then you think oh they're not they're done they want to leave but if you show yes I do it shows that this is something you want to commit time to you're interested you're willing you're open yeah but the open-ended question it's something I learned very early because I was a journalism major and when you interview people you don't want to just get a yes or no answer so I it's something that has worked really really well for me and it's worked really well for my clients too because they it's such a simple thing but you need to kind of practice it a little bit and it does it shows interest it also when you ask people for their advice people even a boss likes to be asked for his advice and I don't I think it's just the way that you that you ask it and it's surprising how the results that you might get when a screenwriter finishes the screenplay is there a checklist that they should sort of mentally or physically check off in terms of the business aspects of getting the script out there not just proofreading and grammar and syntax all that but I'm talking about in terms of you know what are the next steps who should they be sending things out should they make a chart of who they sent it out to I think it's a good idea to see you need to have a checklist or a chart certainly sending it out to a consultant or somebody who professional in the in the industry is is always very helpful because it gives you an idea of from somebody who has been in the industry a long time what is it that might what are the little things and some of the bigger things that might keep it from moving ahead I think that also if you if you have a I think one of the things that bothers me is when I is when I see that people really haven't taken the time to proof I'm not kidding you that's a major thing I have when I was an executive I actually had cohorts in my office who were also execs who if they found more than three mistakes in the first 20 pages they would not they would stop reading and they've throw it in the trash he just hate to say that but that happens that really honest-to-god that that does happen on the other hand I'm always looking give me a reason to say yes you know so make sure that you're you know you know the structure of your your screenplay is such that right off the bat it catches your attention that that we are that you've got characters that are so relatable that we're gonna want to see them and see them either succeed or or to see the guy the antagonists fail that's one of the one of the big things that I say is a lot of times people will pay more attention to the hero and the unfortunate thing is they don't set up the antagonists well enough that it gives the hero enough enough enough contrast and interest that's a big thing that I see a lot and sometimes in the things that I've read is that they just the whoever he's up against whether whether it doesn't have to be a person it could be the elements you know it's like a storm or something or or it could just you know it could just be himself but you don't see enough contrast in what's going on and so I think that's another big mistake that that people make in that they they should take a look at it and have somebody read it and just say you know and ask that question is my antagonist strong enough yeah do you understand what's at stake and do you feel that the hero has has worked hard enough to achieve that success what's the difference though between getting coverage and getting consultation okay coverage a lot of people say okay yeah I'm gonna get coverage on this so they will send it out coverage is something that we use in the studio just to see just so that the executive will know what is the story about because they sometimes don't have time to read the whole script it takes about an hour and a half to read a script and with a thousand scripts coming in every month it's a lot of reading so that's why they have story departments who do the reading so coverage is just like a book report it has a it tells you it has a little log line in the front which is one or two sentences that tells you the the general idea of what the story's about and then it's basically just telling you the story just like a regular book report this is what happens and it usually is done in chronological order and then it usually tells you a little bit you know there'll be box scores or something that will tell you okay is this a big budget you know where does it fall in the budget is that how do you how would you grade it in terms of do you think the dialogue was was well-written do you think the care you understood the characters and that they're they they have a story worth telling you know they don't have those kind of little boxes and you mark them off that usually says you know like excellent good bad fare you know that like that and poor and they just check those off and then they just write a little thing about I feel that this is that I I feel that the character that the hero is too weak and there's just not enough interest in here you know for us there's not enough at stake for us to really root for him you know so they might give a few things what a consultation does is they not only read your whole script they go through and they usually tell you exactly what they feel does not work they get into details your dialogue is two on the news or we you you mentioned this character in the beginning but we don't know why do you include this character if there's no payoff at the end for the character or they'll say gosh you know I I like your hero but you know you're for some reason I don't quite understand why your dialogue doesn't match the personality that you've given him that happens a lot to where you know people people put their own words into the character rather than the characters words into the dialogue and that happens a lot too so that those are just some of the things that you know that consultants will find I think the good thing too about having a consultant is they will tell you you know if you like for right now if you send in something that has to do with zombies or it has to do with you know dystopian ideas and some sometimes they'll you know a consultant will say you know look they they don't mind but it has to have this and this and this zombies are we've had too much too many submissions on that they probably aren't if their chances kind of go down if it's about zombies I mean they will give you hopefully some up-to-date information on what they were they've gleaned from reading the trade papers and and all that so I that's what I do when I do a consultation I will be very upfront about what I feel works and doesn't work about they're not just about the writing but about the script in general and how the marketplace is now because I don't want to ever lead them in the wrong direction and I will be very upfront I'm not gonna be like brutal in my I'm not I try not to be brutal because nobody deserves that but if somebody we recently had somebody last year send me a script about zombies and I had to be very honest about it and I said you know this would have been a good script for people to consider three years ago unfortunately I know for a fact that I was recently at such-and-such you know at the script fest and and I know that several agents have said they do do not want to see any more zombie scripts be they feel that that that they've just been too many of them I mean you have to be honest about it I don't want to build up their hopes on that I've done things also where I have said do you think you can make a transition here where instead of zombies maybe it has to do with something that like that there's there are people here who are actually aliens who have come to earth or you know I help them come to a way that they can maybe change it so that the heart of the story remains but the situation itself like zombies or something can be changed I mean it's it's different ways of being in different consultations differ a lot I try to do that if I can with with mine and I think a lot of my my colleagues do that too where we try to find out what we feel is the best of what they are doing and letting them know what that is and that this is this is what we liked about it and then let them know this is what could be a problem and also along with it what whatever new information we can give them such as you know this is we think that zombies have had their run we've been talking to you know we were on panels and we've talked to agents and producers and and this is what seems you know this is not this is the and I sometimes ye even put these are some of the areas that they're looking at if they happen to mention anything you know like they're looking for you know more action pieces or whatever the whatever you know they are looking for I I just try to give them a little bit more additional information about where they could take this project or where they could themselves what they want to start another project what area they might want to start in

Channel: Film Courage

Views: 11,854

Rating: 4.9140811 out of 5

Keywords: screenwriting, screenwriting help, screenwriting advice, the script selling game, selling a screenplay, hollywood, kathie fong yoneda, filmmaking, story, storytelling, breaking into hollywood, filmcourage, film courage, interview

Id: nj0_aLrKQg0

Length: 121min 16sec (7276 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 02 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/goNorthYoung]

Super interesting - commenting here so I can come back and continue watching! Thanks for posting!