(soft music) - Good evening.
- [Audience] Good evening. - Thank you for coming. My name is Brian Robinette and
I am a professor of theology here at Boston College. And on behalf of Boston
College and all who have helped to make this event
possible, I welcome you here in presence and to all of
those who are joining us by livestream, which is quite a number. That's my understanding,
there would be a number of people joining us by Zoom. I'll just make a quick
note for those on Zoom. I'm told to let those who
are being admitted into Zoom to please mute your mic and
please mute your camera. That way, it takes on the
form of a webinar style as close as it possibly can. As I mentioned, my name
is Brian Robinette. I teach theology in the
department and have for 10 years. And I don't think I'm mistaken
in saying that this is a unique experience for BC. The opportunity that we
have here this evening and an event like this is unique. And I think that it bodes
well, is auspicious, for more events like these to come. I would like to thank a few
entities and people specifically for helping to make this event. First of all, I would like to thank the School of Theology and
Ministry, whose grounds we are on for opening up this beautiful space, which has been nicely renovated recently. And for facilitating all
of this and Steve Dalton and Megan De Dios in particular
for all of their work. Thank you for that. I would also like to thank
the Institute of Liberal Arts, which is a co-sponsor of this event and sponsors events like
these with regularity. And then I would also like to
thank the theology department for its co-sponsorship for
this event and for being such a welcoming presence for this event. I want to just very briefly
acknowledge those also in attendance with Rinpoche,
Lama Gyatso is here. We could welcome him
and Lama Tashi are here, and these are very close companions. And I also want to mention
the team, Justin Kelly and Dylan Hensley are here and thank you, we had a wonderful time
walking around campus all together and having dinner together. And so thank you for all
of your efforts in this. I would now like to hand
it over to my good friend and colleague, Professor
Lama John Makransky, who just recently retired
from the theology department. He taught here for 30
some odd years, and it is my great honor to have been his colleague for the 10 years that I have been here. And he will introduce our special guest in the way that Lama John can. So again, thank you for being here, and I look forward to the conversation. - So welcome and happy Saka
Dawa, which is a Tibetan term for one of the most sacred
holidays of the year in the Tibetan Buddhist
world which commemorates the birth and the enlightenment and the power Nirvana of the Buddha. So this is considered like
the most auspicious day and a day when, if someone
does something virtuous that the positive karma
from that is multiplied a hundred million times 'cause
this is such a powerful day. And it's on this day that
Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche kindly was willing to come to Boston College. What a time for him to show up here. And so I just went to thank Rinpoche so much on behalf of Boston
College for your presence. And Rinpoche is, just a
very brief introduction to Rinpoche, which can
never do him justice. But Rinpoche's teachers
and mentors are among the most eminent Tibetan figures of the 20th century, no exaggeration. And under their tutelage
then he completed all of his Monastic and philosophical
studies of Buddhism and was given the most in-depth training in the meditative and ritual practices of Tibetan Mahayana
and vajrayana Buddhism. So Rinpoche has been entrusted
with positions even from a very young age of retreat
master, guiding teacher and abbot in several
important Tibetan monasteries. in 2002, 20 years ago, recognized for his meditative accomplishments. Not bragging, it was just well known and became well known
among neuroscientists. So they really wanted
to get a hold of him. (audience laughing) And some of the leading neuroscientists in the world actually
requested Rinpoche to take part in what became pioneering
research on the effects of meditation on the brain. Over the past 20 years,
Rinpoche has emerged as one of the leading Tibetan meditation
masters of his generation. Again, no exaggeration,
it's just, what can I say except what's generally accepted? And also one of the
most effective teachers of Buddhist concepts
and meditation practices to modern audiences,
so again, very grateful that you could come. And so first just would ask
you Rinpoche if you'd like to lead a very short
meditation and then Brian and I would grill you with a few questions? (audience laughing) - Yes, I go there, here? Maybe we can do some intention, develop what we call generate motivation. So normally on this meditation practice, we begin by setting up
purposeful, meaningful motivation. So thinking that today we are going to learn something
inter-discipline dialogue and maybe something that
will benefit for ourself and then can bring this peace to our family members, friends,
maybe social circle, and maybe to the bigger society. Sometime what we call transforming yourself has a contagious. We have coronavirus contagious, right? (audience laughing) So now we have contagious
of awareness, love and compassion wisdom,
who knows? (chuckles) So please, to put the sense
of purpose and acknowledge what we are going to engage in. So please keep your
spine loose and straight and if you can, you can touch
your both feet to the ground. Sometime for me, it's
difficult, my legs short. (audience laughing) And please close your eyes if you like. And first please relax muscles in the body and just feel the sense of the body. The touching sensation of your body with your cloth, chair
and maybe temperature. And just feel the gravity in the body. And If you can relax, wonderful, cannot relax, also wonderful. Give permission that whether relaxed or not relaxed it's okay. And you don't need to
pretend to be anybody. You don't have to act to be somebody. Be yourself and be free. And now appreciate that
having this body is amazing and it's still breathing. It's so wonderful, isn't it? I'm alive, how wonderful. And can hear, can smell,
can sense, how wonderful. And especially today
through this dialogue, maybe I can learn something
and that wisdom and experience want to share to my
friends, family to others. Now please open your eyes. And it is wonderful to have
these eyes and can see things. When we appreciate that
we can see and hear, then the world become different. Okay, thank you. - Thank you Rinpoche So, at the heart of your
practice traditions from Tibet, right at the heart of it is what's called the nature of mind, some
may also call Buddha-nature. So my first question is to try
to get right to the heart of the matter, the very heart of
things in terms of practice. What is the nature of
mind or Buddha-nature, and why is it important
in Buddhist understanding? Why is it so important to realize it? - Yeah, so Buddha-nature, what we call that everybody
has a basic in it. Goodness, the intrinsic nature. So we have many names for that. Sometime what we call Kadha. Kadha meaning the original purity. Tathagata-garbha, the
nature of going beyond. And (indistinct) garbha, the
nature of blissful or joyful. So what we call everybody
has this potential and wonderful, basic innate goodness. And that has three quality,
the clarity or awareness and love and compassion
and wisdom, three in one. So in Asia, we can use coffee,
three in one, very easy. Milk, coffee, sugar together,
and I cannot find here. (audience laughing) But the traditional example is what we call like lamp, flame. Flame has light. The flame is the light and flame is heat. There's the intrinsic quality of heat. At the same time color, so three in one. So same thing that intrinsic
nature is connected with this awareness, love and
compassion and wisdom. And the whole purpose of practice is what we call to discover that. So in a way, what we call
you are Buddha right now, right here, but the problem
is we are not recognized. And that's what we call ignorant. So ignorant has so many
layers, intellectual or conceptual level ignorant, of course. And there's a feeling level of ignorant and there's perception level. So almost change the color of the eyes, ear, nose, tongue, touch. So three layers of ignorant. - [John] Ignorance.
- Yeah, ignorance, right. (audience laughing) And then based on ignorance, then there's a version of craving. Then it's created what we call boxes. Yes, no, both, neither, four boxes. And then we are trapped into these boxes, which is a subject and object. And yes and no cannot
agree each other. (laugh) Opposite and they're fighting each other. And then there's biases,
personalities, concepts, and time, matter, so on, so
on, so on, then we're trapped. So there's obscuration. The traditional example
is diamond covered by mud. So even though diamond is
totally covered by mud, still, diamond is diamond. When you clean the mud,
put on the crown, diamond in the mud diamond on the
crown is same diamond. - So just ignore this
if it's not meaningful, but since the nature of
mind or Buddha-nature is such a good thing,
and if we were to realize that it would be such a
great thing to have realized to have realized those
qualities and be them. What is ignorance, these layers
of ignorance trying to do? They don't really know the nature. They don't know the nature of mind, they don't know their own nature. And then what are they trying to do? We can understand why they're
doing what they're doing, that prevents us from
knowing the nature of mind. - They are very grumpy and lazy. I'm just kidding.
(all laughing) So ignorant also coming
with nature in a way. So what we call, if there's
a lamp and then we cover my lamp with a glass full
of color, then what happen? The room is full of different colors. But the color come from
the lamp in the middle, but filtered by the glass. Then we can have another
glass full of scary image. What do you think scary image is? Sometimes I have to be careful, you know. - A spider? (chuckles) - Some people love spider also. (all laughing) Okay, whatever, for you,
spider or rattle snake or scorpion, maybe ghost.
(all laughing) So it's covered by that glass. Then what happen, the room is appear as full of scary image. But that scary image is
coming from the light. Without flame, you cannot
have that scary image, but the ignorance is this filter. These are the ignorance, and
special seeing scary image as real like a snake, poisonous snake. But it's just image, but we
don't know that's just image. We perceive that real snake there. So that's the ignorance also. So in a way, everything
come from the true nature, it's a manifestation, but
filtered by that ignorance. So that's the job of ignorance. - So of course, probably many
people hearing this would say, "But we do need to
avoid poisonous snakes". So they have some degree of reality. But we could still do that being aware that our perception of the snake is- - Yeah because it is just image, it's not really poisonous snake. But the problem is we appear as poisonous snake as poisonous snake. Image of poisonous snake
as real poisonous snake. But when we know that it is just image, that's the liberation,
it's just a manifestation. So the difference between
seeing poisonous snake, the image of poisonous
snake as real snake, then a lot of fear, suffering
all this problem, right? And you know, "Oh, it's just image, oh it's coming from here." (exhales) (laughs) But take some time. - In another kind of practical
way, this also has to do with our images of everybody, doesn't it? - Yeah, yeah. - Like looking around
the room, to me, many of the people look like just strangers. A few seem to matter because
they're my wife and children. (all laughing) A few others, I don't know,
look kind of annoying. (all laughing) So that would be the ignorance
constructing or creating an image that we mistake
for the full reality. - We have very funny
example for what we call, if the monkey mind, the conceptual mind should create all this perception. So if our life has another big problem, the monkey mind very happy
with that big problem. And we don't see, we don't
care about small problem. So when the big problems
finish and there's a holiday for a few months or few weeks, the monkey monkey mind's having holiday. And then the monkey mind
begin to look problem. And one day go into bathroom
and yeah there are two choices. One is about face, one
about belly and which one? (indistinct chatter)
Belly, raise your hand. (all laughing)
And I dunno, online. Face, raise your hand.
(audience chuckling) So more people like belly, okay. (all laughing) So I'm having something growing also. So go to the bathroom, look at the mirror, "Oh, I have big belly". Then we look at the right side, left side. (audience laughing) And then we have breakfast. And while having breakfast,
thinking about that big belly. "I think my belly is a little
bit too big that's a problem." And then what we call in the
body, prana, bindu, nadi. The nadi meaning nerves,
prana means energy, the bindu meaning cells,
and they begin to form. Mind and body is what people
at the beginning support and then go to the office. If we are busy, we
forget about a big belly or from nine to five. And finish, walk five and
come back to home, relax. Oh yeah, big belly.
(audience laughing) And go to the bathroom again. Then this, I discuss it
with the neuroscience of what they call neurons. And they talk to each other, sometimes what I call gossiping neurons. (audience laughing) It's like prana, bindu,
nadi and they make group, like new political group, you know? (audience laughing) So then after a certain level,
if you go to the workplace, even if you're busy, you
still remember your belly. "Oh now my boss is looking at my belly. My friend is looking at my
belly, he's looking at my belly, she is looking at my belly, now everybody's looking at my belly". Maybe they're not looking at, you know? And then after a certain
level, if you go outside, we feel like everybody's looking. And when you look at
you, you look very ugly. So next month you look at the same mirror, looks like you are become
much uglier than last month. Actually, probably same. But then we create that concept. Then almost become in the end, 3D. So that's how we create the concept. It's just a similar example with the belly but it will appear with many things. - So we kind of get imprisoned
in these layers of ignorance. Imprisoned in a way that
we don't have much access to nature of mind's qualities. So then how do practices,
or what kinds of practices, or how does practice, or what
sort of practice helps cut through the layers of ignorance
and help us to realize the qualities of the nature
of mind and become that more? - Yeah, so first of what
we call awareness practice. So being with the reality as it is so, at the beginning we can focus on the breath or sound or any phenomena. Nothing cannot become
support for meditation. There's two type of
meditation, what we call, one is object oriented,
one is subject oriented. So object oriented, meaning only breath. Breath is important, let
go of the past, let go of future, present now with the breath. Oh, pizza pizza, no pizza, breath. (audience laughing) To do list, oh no no, breath. So that's the object oriented. And for the nature mind style or what we call subject oriented,
subject meaning the awareness. Awareness, meaning the quality of the mind, clear
annoying, or sublime aspect. That like lamp, lamp
illuminated by itself. But of course at the beginning,
we cannot connect with that. But the lamp has true clarity. One is self clarity, meaning
the lamp illuminate itself. But at the same time, the
lamp illuminate things around. So whatever things around
can see, can illuminate. So the luminous quality
of mind can manifest through the eye so you can
see, we can hear, we can smell, we can taste all this. But of course, prana, bindu, nadi, the body also connect with that. So we get in touch with our own mind, maybe to be aware of breath, for example what we call breathing meditation. Anybody who practice
breathing meditation before? Raise your hand. Okay, many of you. And some of you not yet, raise your hand. (all laughing) Okay, so maybe I will teach
you breathing meditation. How many of you are breathing
right now, raise your hand. (all laughing) Finished.
(all laughing) So that is breathing meditation,
to be aware of breath. So that is awareness. And slowly, slowly, we can aware of form, sound, smell, taste,
sensation, talk, any emotion, everything, then in the end
be with the awareness itself. So there's true awareness we can connect with our true nature, and another one through loving kindness, compassion. So what we call all these clashes, the confusion, ignorant
or craving, hatred. I had panic when I was
young, panic attacks. So panic, depression... The essence, deeper level
is love and compassion. And how many of you want to
be happy, raise your hand. (audience laughing) So there is base for love,
love, or loving kindness. And we don't wanna have problem, right? Don't wanna suffer, that's
the basis of compassion. So love and kindness, wish to
be happy, good, meaningful, something nice, compassion wanting to flee from problem, obstacle. So that's the intrinsic feeling,
this is why you come here. And right now here, you're
moving sometime like this, sometime like this, sometime like this. (audience laughing) Each movement is looking for happiness. Each eyes glim, each breath
is looking for happiness. And not only the body, each thought, each emotion, each feeling. When you go to deeper level,
is looking for happiness. Wanting to be happiness, wanting to free from suffering maybe to yourself, your friends, your family, to the world. So through that, we can
connect with the loving through true nature and under true wisdom. And the wisdom has a lot of things to say, maybe we can save later. - I don't mean for this
to be a long answer, but just in brief, how does
the cultivation of awareness and cultivation of love
and compassion cut through the layers of ignorance? I understand how they
bring out qualities of our innate nature, our Buddha-nature, they're kind of bringing them out. So it's a different way of
being than just being caught up in the projections of ignorance. But are they also sort
of undercutting ignorance or making it hard for ignorance to function or purifying ignorance away? - Transforming ignorance.
- Transforming it. - Yeah ignorance become wisdom. - Ignorance itself becomes wisdom. - Yeah, so for example,
when we look at the panic or hatred, at the beginning
we can look at the hatred. But then most of the time we
have question, where, right? Where should I look? Eh, sensation, there's sensation. There's image, there's a lot of slangs. (all laughing) I don't want to repeat those. (all laughing) We all have, yeah? Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. And there's a belief. So the hatred become four pieces. If you don't look at the
pieces, you cannot see hatred. And these four pieces are
what we call interdependent that without sensation, how you can hate? Without the image, object to
whom you're going to hate? Without that articulation,
hatred cannot come. Without belief the view,
this is right, this is wrong, this is a should, not,
you cannot have hate. So what we call interdependent. And they're changing, changing, changing. Sometime when we hate, we
think it will be forever, but it will change. When I feel panic, I
think will be forever, my life is doomed, but it will change. So when we look a little more into that, what we call emptiness. So we can reach the mind, which is beyond concept, yet, not nothing. There's clarity, luminosity, the present, sometimes what we call a wakeful present. And that is the how to connect
also to the Buddha-nature. - Final question in
this set of questions is what does awakening to the nature of mind to Buddha-nature make possible
for us in terms of our lives, our relationships to others,
our highest possibilities? What does awakening to our
Buddha-nature make possible? - So the main thing is
that whatever happen, we can find there's something
which is the essence or the nature always present, beyond free. There's some kind of like
contentment there, the joy. Though on the surface level, a
million things are happening. Like even panic comes, but the
nature of panic, awareness, luminosity, wisdom, love and compassion. So it looks like panic, but
it's not panic, it's wisdom. - The nature of panic is not panicking. - Yeah it is, as I mentioned before, we don't need to get rid of ignorant, but ignorant transform. Sometimes what we call mirror-like wisdom. Oh no, not mirror, non-conceptual wisdom. And hated, anger, transform
mirror-like wisdom. Pride transform wisdom of equanimity. So all this transform is not the time to fight with them, get rid of them. And actually we don't need
to get rid of anything, your Buddha right now, right
here, but we need to recognize. So sometime I went to the Oregon? - Oregon.
- Oregon. And there's a national park
and there's a tree, dead tree. I was very surprised, "Wow, this tree". And I tried to touch, it is stone. - Pet...
- [All] Petrified. - Petrified tree, right? So it's changed. It is stone transformed already, but still remain, look like
tree, same shape, same color. So thought can come, emotion
can come, but they transform. - Thank you, Rinpoche. One other question I had is
as a Buddhist teacher here in the West, I mean you live
and you're based in Nepal and you support monasteries
and study centers in Nepal and are developing them. But also here in the West,
you've become a major teacher in the West, many Westerners. So as a Buddhist teacher of
spiritual practice in the West, how have you needed to
adapt Buddhist teachers? I'm sorry, Buddhist teachings, in order to meet Western minds? How do you do that? - Yeah, so there's, I
think very important. So when I was young, my father always said the teachings need to adapt with the mentality, personality, culture base. That's what Buddha said. So my teachings, the
essence, no need to change. But how that practice,
how that connected with the different level of mentality, and we talk a lot about
personalities also, and also culture, all this. So, excuse me, it's very important. And even the examples, stories,
all this I need to adopt. First time I came to US in 1998 and I was teaching in
California, Bay Area. And I told them, "Oh, when we
cultivate love and kindness, compassion, all the virtues
flourish like summer river". And they say, "what?"
(audience laughing) So summer river in Bay Area
is become dry, you know? (all laughing) But summer river in Nepal,
India, monsoon time flourishing. (all laughing) - Well, in addition to
that, Rinpoche, certainly there's been a way to adapt forms of communication, anecdotes, images, and things of that sort. But I would imagine that
talking about the nature of mind in a Western context
probably elicits from... And people in that context
that you're talking about something primarily
conceptual, something thinking. And of course it's clearly
not what you're referring to. It includes thinking, it's not simply an activity of the discursive mind. So that would be a big, maybe
a very significant example of adaptation to try to
cut through certain kinds of presuppositions about
what even the word mind means in a certain context. Maybe you could say something
a little bit more about that. But what are other more
significant initial barriers that you have thought in
the activity of teaching and communicating that
you have needed to adapt and maybe have done so in a way that has maybe even significantly adjusted your own appreciation of the
potential of your tradition? - Actually I learned a
lot from signs or so. 1999, I came to USA and
I look for, that time there's a tape, you know, very big. What do you call this?
(indistinct mumbling) Video tape, right, very big. Just 60 minutes, I have
to take this big one. I buy from the shop and then
when I go back to India, I have one bag is full of these
videos from the scientists. Some they talk about psychology and little bit about cognitive... Therapist, some kind of
like how to work with man. - Cognitive behavioral therapy? - Things like that, it's very,
not much that time, less. And then that physics and
then the social kind of life that is quite good. So I went, I bring this
to India and I watch and I don't understand anything. (audience laughing) And I have a translator and
eventually I tried to come to the US again from the year 2000. And I have a lot of engage. Again, I learn a lot,
normally what I call... I teach, but at the same time, I'm learning from the student. And like these special
sometimes are very difficult to translate, the concept is
very difficult to translate. And what we call (foreign
language) in Tibetan. And that still, I cannot
find the right words. So concept is also (foreign language), thought is also (foreign language). But then people think
thought, just thinking, so meditation beyond thought become... (audience laughing) And you become zombie, isn't it? And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about meditation. And another misunderstanding
is people think meditation many think of nothing. Empty mind, empty brain. Or look for peace, calm, joy. Meditation associated with peace. Full peace, relax and the peace embrace. A wakeful present right now.
(audience laughing) one, two, three, peace.
(audience laughing) So what we got, the
more you look for peace and calm and joy, normally
they will say I'm busy. (all laughing) And also the more you try to
keep your mind quiet, worse. So normally what I call pizza meditation. Anybody knows about pizza meditation? (audience laughing) How many of you know pizza meditation? Not many, good.
(audience laughing) So we will try pizza
meditation for one minute. Please keep your...
(all laughing) Keep your spine loose and straight. And for the pizza meditation has one rule, which is, you're not
allowed to think of pizza. (all laughing) You can think of anything
else except pizza, okay? (audience laughing) Be ready, one. When you hear three, no pizza, okay? Two. Three, no pizza.
(audience chuckling) No pizza.
(all chuckling) Okay, how was it?
(audience laughing) Pizza came or no?
(audience laughing) How many of you think of
pizza, raise your hand. (all laughing)
So that's normal. So what we call aversion or
trying to resist something, it makes actually that
louder and stronger. So for me, when I was
young, I had panic attacks. So one of the main problem is
panic of panic, fear of panic. So when we meditate, you
allow the pizza can come, but not lost, not forget, like when we practice breathing
meditation, remember the breath. As long as if you remember the glimpse of the breath, breath, then
pizza comes, no problem. Two pizza, three pizza, 10
pizza comes around okay. - So do you find that
students and audiences and more or less Western context
find themselves struggling, especially with not just an intention, but a certain kind of prior
understanding of what it is that they're looking for? Looking for peace or
looking for happiness. So earlier when we began the session, you were talking about intention, right? How is the forming of
intention not necessarily the setting up of expectations that might actually block the practice? And maybe that's something that you find in contexts like these more
than other places or not. But if you could speak
to that a little bit. - Yeah I think just now I mentioned about expectation, peace, peace, peace. So what we call then
peace will say I'm busy. And then we cannot experience
peace very easily actually. And in the end we, of course
disappoint, another word... - Frustrated or disappointed.
- Frustrated, disappointed. So there's another important
that to keep in the mind what we were at the beginning. And of course, peace, calm, clarity, joy, these are what we call
by-product of meditation, not the essence of meditation. Essence of meditation is awareness. And then also let thought come and go is what we call letting go of aversion. But stay with the breath,
letting go of craving. So normally our mind wanders and follow monkey mind, and we lost. But with breath, being
with breath as it is, what we call just seeing
the nature of the breath. Shallow breath, deep breath, irregular breath, doesn't matter. So that is what we call beginning
of wisdom, just witness. Witness of the nature of reality itself. We don't need to change it, we don't have to make nice breath, beautiful
reality, not necessary. If the reality messy, be with messy. (John laughing) But in the end, the
true nature of reality, as I mentioned before,
multiplicity, so many pieces. And they're interdependent and they're changing, changing, changing, in the end cannot find. And that I learned a lot from the physics. Although in the meditative tradition, we talk about that and
I watch these videos. "Wow, they're talking
something." (chuckles) - Could you say a little
bit more about feeling? So when I think people look to meditation as a way of solving a problem, it's often in terms of certain
kinds of thought patterns or they think that they have
to struggle with thoughts, but you've mentioned
several times that it's also very important to be in touch
with feeling and perception. I wonder if that's also a
part of adaptation or speaking to something that may be
not so well cultivated in Western context, is the feeling world. So could you say a little bit more about that in practice and feeling? - So yeah, what we call... First, we need to connect with the less awareness with the breath. Then second is the body. So when we connect with the body, that's the beginning of
connecting with the feeling world. So just like we did little bit, right? Just feel the gravity
or feel the sensation, feel the temperature, feel the tactile. Of course, when you feel the body, you need to feel through
tactile, through sensation. Intellectually, the shape,
color doesn't work very well. We even don't know what
we look like very clear, except unless we look at
the mirror, right? (laughs) So the doorway experiential connection, the doorway is the
sensation and the tactile. And next is what we call feeling. So once there's tactile, once there's sensation,
then feeling comes. So feeling pleasant, unpleasant, and there's a neutral feeling also. So to connect with the
feeling, awareness feeling, become one, so one practice. Another one is that love and compassion. What we call love, compassion, joy, then equanimity, the subtle feeling. All these are connected
with emotion and feeling. Positive emotion feeling. So these are, I think for the
practice, it's very important. - John, do you want to
move into some dialogue with, say, Christian
context, or do you have some more questions that you would like to ask before we do that? - No, I think we can... Yeah, you could ask him. There is a question about,
did you wanna pose it? - Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to pose it. So actually at dinner this evening, we were talking about different places you have taught in the US. And you mentioned, I believe
you said that the first place that you taught was at
St. John's University in Collegeville, Minnesota. Was that the first place in the US? - One of the, yes.
- One of the first. And it was a lovely connection
to make that is a place where I studied theology
and I was really drawn to that place because
of the Monastic context. - It's a Christian, Monastic... - Yes, Christian, Monastic,
Benedictine university, with a seminary and
undergraduates and so forth. Similar to Boston College
in certain respects, but very different in other respects because it had the Monastic culture. And so you were saying a bit
about what that experience was like for you, you
could talk about that, but that is really a
prompt for this question. You've had some experience in teaching in many different places, but
also those that are affiliated with Christianity or the
Christian, Monastic context. I wonder if you could just
say a little bit about what that has been like for you. And maybe what it has been like to have in those contexts to receive something, the kinds of questions that
they would ask or the insights that they might have or
things that struck you as memorable or worthy for your own kind of adjustment or learning. - So I think in the past, I think from 2004 or
five, I went to Europe, I met some Benedictines in Germany. I went to Monastery also,
Benedictine Monastery, and we had a meal here together,
and then yeah, St John. So in St. John, I met some few
Benedictines and then we went to the special dorm that outsiders are not allowed only the Monastic members. I have privilege to access. And I went in the dorm and the
room, there's how they live. Very simple, but very kind
of meditative environment. It was a very nice memory for me. And we have some discussions
with the Benedictines there and the main thing I always really admire in Christian tradition is the emphasize of love and compassion. And then in Germany, one
of the Benedictine said they practiced their main focus
on the love and compassion. And the love is also God. Although you cannot touch,
you cannot love, conceptually you cannot touch, but love is there. And same as the God. So I felt, "Wow, this is really..." So for us, when we practice meditation and love and compassion, through love we can go beyond concept, yet some time there's a feeling of love. And then another thing,
what I learned is a lot of the social engagement
aspect that really connected with many people and
bring a lot of social, that's really wonderful
that we need to learn. - Maybe I could invite you to
say a little bit more about the relationship between
conceptual and non-conceptual. We've already been talking
about that to some extent. - Practice.
- Practice. And I might just preface
my question by saying that it's also the case in
the Christian tradition, that there is a relationship
between conceptual practices by which has meant use of image, devotion, object,
chanting, breath, icon. - [John] Imagining
you're present with Jesus as he's experiencing
what he's going through and you're there with him. - Ritual, liturgy, worship,
and things of that sort. But there's also, maybe not
as well known as it ought to be, but definitely a long tradition within the broader Christian tradition of non-conceptual awareness, where maybe in prayer and meditation, one begins with image, devotion, ritual, but at some point drops any focus at all. Just simply in the presence of God, without any particular image
of God, without any agenda, to trying to get something from God, without any preoccupation with
one's self or others around. And just simply let be
certain technical names for that kind of prayer,
but it is certainly present. - [John] So letting God draw you. - Letting God. - [John] Draw you into
more intimacy with God. Like that?
- Yes. - [John] That's more non-conceptual you're not doing the work. - Yes, right. So sometimes it's called
passive prayer or contemplation. Sometimes in the Christian
tradition, there's a distinction between mental prayer or
meditation and contemplation. Contemplation often
reserved for non-conceptual. But with all of that said, say
a little bit more about why, I mean, at some point
earlier in our conversation, you were mentioning the
difficulty that we can have with concepts, broadly speaking. But yet we want to enlist
concepts, not simply destroy or somehow be free from
concepts coexistence of the two. So how might I learn from you in terms of your own understanding of the relationship between conceptual and
non-conceptual practice? - So for us at the beginning, we have to engage with the concept. But the concept is supported
by non-conceptual in a way. So what we call view and the
meditation and application, we have to have three. View need to begin with the
conceptual at the beginning, from the intellectual level. And then that intellectual,
we need to connect with the sense of being, the meditation. So meditation is just being,
we don't need to do anything. Sometime what we call non-meditation
is the best meditation. So you are not doing, being
with the reality as it is, but at the same time, not lost the sense of present, sense of being and completely natural, three qualities. Not doing anything is more like being, but not lost, completely
natural, three qualities. So then eventually three aspect, as I mentioned, awareness,
love and compassion, wisdom. So these three aspect at the beginning, this conceptual level, then bring into the experiential level with
being with that innate quality, what we call, is there within us. We need to discover it. Then there's so many different
techniques, how you discover. At the beginning, I don't
believe that my father said you have wonderful nature,
actually, your innate quality and quality of the
Buddha and dog also same. I thought, "Oh yeah".
(audience laughing) Me and dog, same.
(audience laughing) How come my nature and the Buddha? I am suffer suffering,
I have huge suffering. The panic and my mind is a
monkey mind, that's impossible. But then there's a step by step by step as to pertaining how to discover that. And one of the thing that
we can use with the concept, what we call visualization,
imagination, imagination of Buddha first with the
concept, then let go in the end, what we call dissolution. And then there's like icon,
sometimes we focus on. The Buddha has sometimes some holding flower,
represents of compassion. Some holding the lamp or
wheel, which is wisdom. And we focus on that icon sometime. And sometime what we call
the mental recitation. That's I think first my
meditation technique is the reciting mantra in the
mind, om, mani then hum. Mani not money.
(all laughing) - Although that would be okay too. - So in my hometown, everybody
meditating, I mean my family. My mother don't meditate
much, but my grandpa, grandma, my father, they meditate. When they meditate they're
really peaceful and calm. So I thought I'm going to
meditate, I'm imitating. I went to the cave, I
pretend that I'm meditating. And after five minutes later... (audience laughing) Then one day I thought,
"What should I do?" In my hometown, everybody recite the mantra, oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ. I thought, "Oh, I should
recite that", in the mind. So I closed my mouth and recite oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ in my mind. I feel like I did something. Don't know what I'm doing, but I feel like I'm doing something. (audience laughing) So then when I was nine
years old, first time I asked my father to teach me meditation. And first question is
reciting mantra in the mind is meditation or no, he
said yes that's meditation. So I think we have very
similar as what you mentioned. - So at some point it would
be nice, if Rinpoche wished, to lead another meditation
that's in the direction of just being or openness. That's a different style
of meditation then. - Let's do that. - So one of the meditation technique is... So as I had mentioned before, that our mind is like lamp, right? It has the quality of lumi... Luminosity is not like light or not vivid, clear, not like that. The mind itself is luminosity. So even we feel dullness,
we can experience dullness. That is luminosity, that's the clarity. So can you see my hand? So that is the luminosity also. The image of hand appear in our mind has to come through the mind. So not just image, sound,
smell, taste, sensation, everything is in the consciousness, in the mind, happening in the mind. So all this are what we call
the reflection on the lake. Did I tell the story
about the lake, not here? - [John] No, not yet.
- Oh yeah. I forget. I went to Crestone in Colorado
and I hike a mountain. On the half way there's
a lake, very beautiful. And in the lake, entire
valley's reflection appear in the lake, the trees, rocks, there's the deer also, the sky. And the water is so clean I
can drink the water, they said. I drink a little bit, I am so happy. And then I walk again
and after one hour later, and the weather change. Now, in the sky full of cloud
in the sky and almost rain. So my friends said we should go back. So we come down and look at the
lake, now lake become muddy. Become like chai, you know? India, tea, Indian tea, or Tibetan tea. (all laughing) And I thought, "What happened?" Within one minute, the lake
become muddy, it's impossible. So I went close, look at the lake. Doesn't change, lake doesn't change. But because of the cloud, now that reflection of the
cloud appear in the lake. So look like lake become muddy, but actually lake is not muddy. So therefore the surface of the
lake has ability to reflect. And that is like clarity
of mind, the awareness, the fundamental quality of mind. And we have thought,
emotion, perception, memory, all the like reflection in the lake. No matter ugly reflection,
not ugly, bright, dark. It doesn't matter, it's
all our reflection. So whatever we're experiencing in the mind is form of the mind, the clarity. So how to connect with that, like lamp? So first let's say in this empty space, there's light full of
light in this empty space. Can we see light in the
empty space easily or no? Not so easy to see light
in the empty space, right? But you can see light on my
face, on my hand, on the floor, on the wall, on the ceiling, quite easy. But seeing with the empty
space is quite difficult. So therefore, first we connect with awareness through breath. Being with breath, knowing
breath is awareness. Listen to sound, being with the sound, knowing
sound is also awareness. Then in the end be with
the awareness itself. So this is a very advanced
meditation practice. So I dunno, all of you how... (all laughing) All of you want to try that or not. - [Audience Member] Of course.
- [John] Please say yes. (all laughing) - If you want to try, raise your hand. (audience laughing)
Ah very (indistinct). - [Brian] I saw every hand
raised, I saw every hand. - (laughs) Okay, come home. (audience laughing)
So fasten seatbelt. Fasten seatbelt?
(indistinct chatter) Fasten seatbelt, right?
(audience laughing) - [John] Yes, fasten your seatbelt. - Fasten your seat belts. Because it's beyond
non-conceptual, you know? (audience laughing) So now the actual...
(all laughing) We have a big secret in the end, So now I'm thinking about
that, I'm feeling laugh. (audience laughing) Okay anyway, so there's two steps. The first is what we call, just relax. And you don't need to
meditate, just rest our mind like after having physical exercise. Maybe you jog into the
mountain or in the garden, half hours and feel a
little bit tired, right? And sat on nice bench. (exhales). Just like that and no need to meditate. And if you are not meditating, then whatever your mind doing is fine. Blah, blah, blah is fine,
yada, yada, yada is fine. Pizza is okay, whatever. Messy is also okay, be
messy as it is. (laughs) That's our instruction, okay. And we have another example
about after deep breathing, after big sigh, what do
you call sigh? (sighs) We rest like, right? Or after taking shower after cook. And how you rest in your life? Maybe you can mention some examples. - [Man] Sleep.
- Sleep? (audience laughing)
In the, pardon? - [Woman] Netflix.
- Netflix. (all laughing) How about after exam in the
school, in the university? (audience laughing) Or after finished deadline? What else?
- [Man 2] Coffee. - Coffee also. - [Woman 2] Playing with the dog. - Play with the dog. - [Man 3] Breathe.
- (inhales) Breathe, yeah. All these are good example,
so you get the sense, right? You have to have some
kind of sense how just be and don't worry, you're not meditating. So don't worry about, am
I doing it right or wrong, or how can I tell this
is the right practice? No need to worry because
you're not meditating. Okay, and we will do with the
one deep breathing exercise. So first, not now, not
now, I will do first, okay? First you breathe in slowly. (exhales) And when you're breathing out, just follow the natural,
what we call rhythm. No need. (exhales) Not like that. And when we breathe in,
not like this. (inhales) (audience laughing) If you do that, then we
will see galaxies and stars. (audience laughing) And without using telegram, they all come. So we have to breathe slowly. (breathes) Like follow the natural
gravity, let go. (exhales) And then we rest, space
in between the breath. So let go. (exhales) Few seconds, maybe five, four,
five seconds, and breathe in. And after that natural
breath and continue rest. And then we will do again
another deep breathing so three times, you understand? So when you rest in between the
space in between the breath, you're almost, the throat are open. Probably lungs also open. Almost you breathe in,
but not really breathe in. Like that, yeah, okay. Now please keep your
spine loose and straight, and you can use the chair as
support for your back also. And for me, it's quite difficult. My legs are quite short, but supposed to touch
both leg to the ground. And you can put your hand
on your knees like that. And first close your
eyes and feel the body and just relax muscles in the body. And mind, body, both just relax. Okay now if you want, you
can open your eyes also. So slowly breathe in slowly,
slowly, deep, breathe in. And let go. (exhales) And rest, just breath, just mind. Now breathe in and natural
breath and continue rest. And this is the only first step, so you don't need to meditate. Don't worry about being right or wrong. Now deep breathing in again. (exhales) Now natural breath and continual rest. Now last deep breathing, slow
let's breathe in. (exhales) Now, natural breath, you don't need to do any deep breathing,
just natural breath and rest. Now please open your eyes if you're closed and then rest your mind,
that is with open eyes. Okay finished, how was it? How many of you feel a little bit relaxed? Raise your hand, okay. Now the real practice comes, you know, the non-conceptual practice. That's what we need to
fasten your seatbelt. (all laughing) So everybody ready? Yes, raise your hand. (all chuckling) Many of you are laughing
so I think you know, the big secret already. How many of you know the secret? Oh, okay, good.
(audience chuckling) So what did I say?
(all laughing) Two practice, right? The first is just breathe, right? Rest, we don't have to meditate. And we did that together. So that is just a preparation. So the second is the non-conceptual. Being awareness with itself,
sometime what we call it. Sometime non-conceptual meditation, open awareness meditation,
objectless meditation. We have many name for that. So that one, now I'm going to teach you. But before that, I want
to tell you a big secret. So I don't know, should I tell you or not? (audience chuckling) I'm kind of nervous it's a
big secret and we have online. (audience chuckling) And if you promise, then I will share, not tell anybody I will share. (audience chuckling) It's in my books.
(all laughing) Okay so the big secret is actually the open awareness meditation
is already done, finished. There's no second step.
(audience chuckling) So what we did together,
that is the practice of being awareness with itself. And what we call, we
don't need to meditate. Non-meditation is the best meditation. But at the same time, we are not lost when we let our mind be as it is, the sense of presence, sense of being, and the natural quality of the mind is clear and knowing, always there. You all are not unconscious now, right? (audience laughing)
Yes or no? So how many of you are
unconscious, raise your hand. (audience laughing) So even, you said I'm unconscious. (audience laughing) That means you are not unconscious. So experience of unconscious
is not unconscious. So the quality of mind
is clear and knowing and that is always there. So then we don't have
to do anything, just be. So that is one of the most
important step of practice of the going to nature of mind practice. So normally we don't share nature of mind practice in public, why? What we call, we have to practice step by step experientially. So we have to experience that. But then if you intellectually to grab the idea of natural mind,
the practice itself, the ones is become intellectual later not easy to bring into experience. So therefore I don't teach
in the public and I have this path, like the course, what we call joy of living, part of liberation, step by step practice. Then we introduce the
nature of mind practice. It's like, if you want to
watch a movie and you know the ending part, beginning of the movie, then what happen, gone, right? But this practice right now is
the very important foundation to approach the practice
of nature of mind. Of course, we already discussed about the quality of nature of mind already. - Thank you Rinpoche. Just one thought that this raised for me. It seems like another very
important part of the tradition that you are teaching from
is that the kinds of things that you're teaching
are not just techniques. If nobody had ever learned
how to embody them, none of us could learn that
by just trying to adopt a technique and then struggling to try to learn this self-help technique better. It seems to me that the
real first step of all this is when we need to meet
somebody who embodies it. And then when they
speak from that quality, that quality of being and
share a way of accessing and they can share it
because they embody it. Then we have a chance to catch on. And that particular point is not prominent in the adaptation of meditation practices into modern Western
cultures, by and large. There's a tendency to
reduce the whole process to a self-help technique that
ignores the fact that we need to, what in modern
psychology is sometimes said, we need to scaffold upon
someone who embodies. And if nobody's embodying it, how could we possibly learn to embody it? We need to lean on, we need
to scaffold on just like a child needs to scaffold
upon their mother to learn how to become a human being. We need that in order
to learn how to become, these ways of being. And that's just fundamental. I think that's equally true in
Christian tradition as it is in Buddhist traditions
and almost, not totally, but almost totally ignored
in the adaptation meditation of the West with all the
great things happening. And the neuro-psychologists that studied your brain Rinpoche,
which are all wonderful and important progress
in learning more about what's possible for human beings. That particular point I
think is really critical. And also the reason it comes
up for me here is just because it's so obvious here that
that's what's going on. I mean, obviously that's
why we're all here, right? Because reputedly, someone's
learned how to be a certain way of being and can speak from that place. And then we can begin to
catch on to that kind of... It's not just what's said
and then me struggling to take it up and make me into it. It's more like resonating with someone. And in Buddhism, this is
refuge in Buddha and Dharma, as it becomes embodied in
Sangha who embodies it, the spiritual community. It just seems like that's
such a foundational and critical point to just raise up. - Yes and you and I have discussed this on any number of occasions
in terms of what Buddhism and Christianity share on this
point on many other points. In the Christian tradition, there is no individual Christian. There is no individual
person who constitutes what Christian faith
is, but Christian faith, Christian practice is
relational, inherently communal. Of course it has an element
of discipleship to Christ, but that discipleship is
embodied among others, the saints, those who have gone before, those who are gathered in community. And so it's a real distortion of the kind of wisdom, compassion and so forth that we're talking about here,
which would be cultivated in the Christian tradition to imagine that it is done by an individual. It is something that is received. In the Christian tradition,
very often you'll hear about the imitation of
Christ, Imitatione Christi. A rather superficial notion
of that is Jesus engages in certain kinds of
behaviors, and then I am going to imitate those behaviors
the best that I can. Sort of like there's an external model, and then now I'm going to imitate that as best as I can according to my wits. - That's how we modern
people think of that, yeah. - But that's a very thin understanding of what imitatione really means. It's really about receiving
the presence of another, of receiving one's self from another. And of course transmitting
what one has received to others in a circularity. It's how in the most profound sense, Christians understand
God as relational love, not just as an external
elevated object out there, but a dynamic living reality of receiving and of transmitting. And so anyway, to the
point that you're making. And so if let's say in
the Christian tradition, there were to be any effort to renew the contemplative
dimensions of that tradition in dialogue with Buddhism
or any other tradition, if that communal or that relational matrix is not fundamental to
it, then there's going to be something deeply
stunted, limiting about that. But I do think that this
is an example of what we've shared here together,
the communication of that, which gives us permission, you might say, or the mind that's grasping
permission to relax into what is actually present,
but as embodied by another. - There's something prior
to speaking that can happen, I would say is happening. And then also speaking is happening, but there's something
prior to the speaking that is also communicating
from the quality of being of someone who learns
to increasingly embody that quality of being, and then
we may be attracted to that because there's something
in us that recognizes that in that person or in
that spiritual community that's already in
communication even before we can comprehend what
is communicating to what. And that also seems to have
to do with Buddha-nature and part of what's really
important in Tibetan Buddhism and other deep contemplative traditions. There was one other question
I had and then Brian, I'm not sure if you have
more, but then we also wanted to have people's questions. - We do, feel free, go ahead. - The one is, when someone
or more and more people begin to realize the qualities
of the nature of mind, or Buddha-nature in the various ways that that becomes possible,
how does that empower us better to respond to the great
problems of our world like the problem of the
devastation of our natural world, the increasing violence in the world, the inequities in the world, the greed? How does realizing qualities
of nature of mind help us or empower us to better
respond to those things? - Yeah I always think about
when I'm having communication with others, there's what
people view that respect that everybody has basic innate goodness. And then this basic innate
goodness are radiating actually with the communication, with the behave. Although the person is
having a lot of problems, but still there's this great
quality that is manifesting. But important is we need to
nurture or recognize that. We need to work with that,
we need to hold on that. So maybe I will tell you a story. One time, a couple came to me and they're having big problem. The husband is want to control
everything and the wife has the tendency always worry,
everything she worry. So and then they both
come to me and ask me, "Could you please bless us?" And they're expecting
some power that I can... (audience laughing) Particular blessing and yes, and tomorrow, no problem, no argument. (audience laughing) So I told them I don't have that power, that kind of blessing I don't have. And they're kind of disappointed. (audience laughing) And I told them, "But
I can give you advice". Although I don't have
that particular power, but maybe we can give
you advice and they say, "Oh yeah, anything from
you, we will try our best". (audience laughing) And I told them, "Okay, from today on, you have to make, in
one day, half hour time for positive discussion and try to discuss about the good things, good
qualities about each other". They say, "Okay, okay".
(audience laughing) And they're gone. And I haven't met them for a few weeks. And few weeks later, they come back and they say half hour is too long. (audience laughing) We begin to have this discussion, "Oh yeah, first time when I met you and you have kind, but not now, almost..." (audience laughing) And then they look at each
other, look at the watch. (audience laughing) And then they ask me, "What should I do?" I told them, "Okay, okay, no problem, I will give you a discount. So if you cannot do a half hour, now only five minutes per day." They say, "Oh, that's okay,
we can do five minutes". And they're gone, I haven't
met them for one year. And after one year later
they came, they said, "Thank you for your advice,
now 30 minutes is not enough". (audience mumbling) And I was surprised, wow. And I was not expected that change. I asked, "Oh, what happened?" They said when they begin
to discuss only five minutes and actually they discover a lot of good things within each other. Actually they care each
other, they love each other. And there's more good
qualities that they discuss. And they're talking about that. So then when we discuss
what have happened, the recognition comes. So ignorant not recognize,
recognize is awareness, wisdom. So like we go to therapists and we talk about our problem for 12
times, feel better, right? And what I heard of that good
therapy learn how to listen. So now they cannot really
change their personality. The problem is husband
still want to control and wife still worry. But now they talk about each other and they put sense of humor
about their personality. And what they do is when
the husband comes in, knock the door and making humor
about his personality, "The most powerful person
in the world is coming". (audience laughing) And the wife open the door,
"Oh the most worried person in the world welcomes you". (audience laughing) And they give each other a name. So the husband, the name is control freak, and wife's name is a worry freak. And they really get along. And lot of, although it
cannot change this directly, but they're working every day. So I think this is really important to see these innate qualities within each other. When we talk about that, then I think the world
become better place, I think. - [John] Really just see
each other more accurately. See more in each other.
- Yes, yes, yes. So what I heard of that, if
you have 10 qualities with us, one negative, nine positive, normally what we see is only one negative. And we exaggerate that one negative and denying the nine
quality, good thing with us. - [John] Brian, shall we ask? - [Brian] Yes, we have about
15 minutes for conversations from those who are in the audience. - So this is a time when
you have the opportunity and this is a pretty rare
opportunity here at Boston College to ask any questions you may
have or anything you'd like to raise with Rinpoche and
related to all the things that we've discussed and so forth. - So I'm gonna ask you to ask
your question with the use of the microphone, so that way, those who are joining us by Zoom can hear. So if you want to point to
people and I'll just be the one that gives the microphone. - But please feel free. So there's one right there, that one. - Oh, thank you, Rinpoche. If we are already Buddha and
we are just not recognizing, and we have some deformant, can we just use single
practice purification to purify the deformant and then it will be Buddha? So we don't need any other practice, just one purification
like (foreign language), is that sufficient? - We need a few things. Awareness, love and compassion, wisdom. In the end, it will become one. But what we call to grow this flower, there's soil, water, seed,
oxygen, and sunlight. Some cause and condition comes together, then grow the flower in the future. So at least what we call Samatha, which is connecting with
awareness, love and kindness, compassion, which is
connected with the Metta and the wisdom, and that also formed as session practice or informal practice. So view, meditation, application
has to come together. So just reciting Metta,
Metta, Metta, only, it helps, but it recite the Metta
with awareness, love and compassion, wisdom,
together then really become, if you practice purification, then it will become complete practice. - [John] Brian there's one
there, then we'll come back. - [Audience member] Thank
you for being here Rinpoche. So my question, it's a little
like Lama John's question, but thinking about there's so
many people who are very angry and hate this other group of people and the other group of
people hates them back. And so in one of those two groups, which many of us are, how do
we work with sort of looking at people who we see as
hateful doing bad things and get that compassion for them? 'Cause it's really hard when you feel like what they're doing is so un-compassionate and so hurtful to other people. - Yeah, so one time me and my father, we are having dinner together and there's a group of people came to learn
meditation from my father. There's two men within the group and they don't like each
other and they fight. Sometime they beat each other. And that evening they're fighting outside and people cannot stop. Hitting each other with stick. And then me and my father,
we don't know how to do. If you call police, sometimes
Nepal doesn't work very well. (audience laughing) So then having this
Tibetan soup called tupa and suddenly one man came. (pants) He's the one hit the stick to other man. "Rinpoche please help me how
to control my anger, teach me." And my father is, "Oh yeah,
why you angry at him?" He said, "No, no, no, he's just really bad and he said bad things about me, and he harm me and he beat me." "Oh, because of the words,
because of he beat you, then maybe you should angry at the stick and the words from that person." He said, "I'm not stupid". (audience laughing) "This kind of logic doesn't
work with me, stupid logic." And my father said, "Why?" "Because the stick is controlled by him. The word it just doesn't mean anything but controlled by him, so
I hate him, not the stick." And my father said, " Oh,
okay, okay, that means, who control that you hate the controller? That means the real
control of that person is the hatred, the anger, the
ignorant, the aversion. And that person also doesn't
have control just like you. You don't have control you
come here to ask me just help. But when the anger and hatred comes, you cannot control, isn't it?" He said, "Oh yeah, That's true". You know, he's changed his face and he's kept thinking, you know? And I think there's lot
of people are fighting and hate each other. Even people hate personally
to you or society. I think the most important
is what we call... Of course, we have this
uncomfortable feeling, we might angry, we might feel hate. We can hate about the
haters, what we call. We can hate about their
behave, but they themselves, in a way deeper level, they
have this basic innate goodness. But they have become out of control. So when we connect like that way, then there's a really connection. But at the same time, we are not ignoring that nothing
happened, it's happening. So the teaching from
my father really helps. I think that might help nowadays. - [John] There is one over there and then back there as well. - [Audience Member] Thank you so much. As a therapist, I often
encounter great suffering in individuals, and there
are Western concepts that I've learned of what
mental illness can be, and certain ways, I
guess, using the analogy of the candle and the flame, certain ways in which traumas or the body makeup itself can hinder someone from even having a wick or the wick is wet. So no matter how close you put a flame, it will not ignite the second one. And I wonder, it brings
to me this question of that nature of mind
and the hypothesis being that all of us have it. And also the dogs and the chimpanzees and all of all these things. But I'm struggling with
that idea of mental illness that the West has and how
to work with these practices in relation to that,
if in fact the candles are different in some way,
if we're using that analogy. And I'm wondering if there is
this concept of mental illness in the Tibetan tradition,
'cause I also find it difficult in a lot of things to see
that, the greatest illness is merely ignorance or simply ignorance. And that is becoming very
nuanced in today's culture. So I'm wondering if you
have any words for that. - Yeah so what we call this
ignorant has three layers, not just intellectual level ignorant, it's in the feeling level. So feeling level is connected
with the subtle body. So the traumas are in the
feeling level it's connected with the prana, bindu,
nadi and then it comes in the perception level, even deeper unconscious
level, the ignorant. So what we call ignorant
is not the same as I think in the West call ignorant. That might be the... It might have the different language here. But even though the
words ignorant is there, but the deeper level,
what we still believe that everybody has the
basic innate goodness, the Buddha-nature is there. But whether you recognize or not, not everybody can recognize. Like dogs maybe sometime who knows, some dogs can, but almost
impossible, some dogs. No matter how you tell, "Oh, you have Buddha-nature,
Buddha-nature every day. Nature mind, nature mind, nature mind." So sometime what we call, it doesn't want. And then we have to
accept what Buddha said. You have to learn to accept. But at the same time, it
doesn't mean, "Oh, there, they don't have anything there, nothing". Not like that, they have
also great qualities. Everybody's unique, everybody
has different things, so respect that. And yeah, I have some
time, a lot of discussion with the psychologist and the therapist that when the trauma comes
sometime at the beginning to learn meditation is very difficult. So I recommend to go to therapist and take some, even needed medication. All these are really important
once the prana, bindu, nadi, which is in the body. When there's more calm, then
you can learn meditation and special what we call yoga. But yoga meaning movement or physical, so special kind of aerobic
exercise, those really helps. So meditation, therapy,
medication, physical exercise, all this combined together, I think helps. - [John] And then there
was one more right there. - [Audience Member] Thank you Rinpoche. So let's say that we already have a formal meditation practice. Let's say that we have
attended to 1000 crises, and we are ready to take the next step, meaning have a teacher. How do you find that teacher? And once you find that teacher, how do you start that relationship? Do you take refuge in bodhicitta, what do you do? - The first, if you cannot find teacher, flip a coin and see.
(audience laughing) So what we call the first
teacher is the person. Second teacher is the
teaching of the teacher. That's very important. And what we call then
attached to the teacher, the teaching is important. Third teacher is the phenomena. Now you come into
everyday life up and down, you can learn from that. So for me, the panic, I
learn a lot from panic. In the end, the ultimate
teacher is your true nature. So having saying that,
as John mentioned before, there's some kind of transmission, what we call lineage transmission. So has to be there. So I create a curriculum, which is what we call Job
Living one, two, three. Then there's a path of liberation, which is a natural mind
practice, level five. So that some you can do online, you don't have to be in person. But there's one transformation
you have to be together with the teacher in person. Then the rest, you can do online. So these things are important and you don't need to find a one teacher. So what we call teachers like
flower and student like bee and teaching is the nectar. And we can take to practice. And then the lineage
transformation comes in body when we follow that lineage
and like scientists said. What we learn, 93% of
are nonverbal, right? And from the word only 7%,
what we learn is from the word. So that is the contagious. Same thing, we go to Japan from America. People go to Japan one week. Actually we learn a lot. Come back, we transform, we change, but we didn't go to the formal university and learn from the
professor, not like that. And Japanese person come to
the USA, one week, change. So this comes like
non-verbal transmission. - So I think we're at the end of our time. It just occurs to me, maybe Justin, is there a simple website
address if someone just wants to find out what Rinpoche
is doing and what... - [Justin] Sure, via www.tergar.org. And Tergar is T-E-R-G-A-R. - T-E-R-G-A-R, so www.tergar.org - [Justin] Org, O-R-G. - So I just want to thank you
so much Rinpoche for coming. (all clapping) - And thank you all for
being here and your presence, I think means a lot to each
other and to us as well. This is a very memorable event. And I just wanna extend my
deep appreciation to you and to those traveling with you. Thank you for coming to BC, and thank you for spending
time walking around with BC. We have this lovely image of
us sitting in the courtyard, in front of the Bapst
library under the trees. - On the ground.
- On the ground. And I will always remember that. - Thank you, thank you very much. Also for both the professors,
I really appreciate to be here and to came
to the college here. Very appreciate, and I
have this opportunity. Very appreciate, thank you so much. - So I feel like Boston College
is kind of a blessed place. (audience laughing)
And it just got more blessed. (audience laughing) - Blessed from the monkey mind. (all laughing) (soft music)
