A Conversation with Dr. Edward L. Branch hosted by Dr. Frank A. Thomas

[Music] well it is my great pleasure to have dr. Atwood l branch the past a third New Hope Baptist Church of Detroit Michigan a fabulous preacher and just that great soul and a great friend to me and it's so great to have you to be with us today just fabulous to have you it's wonderful to be here I'm honored I really am I'm honored to be invited I think yes thanks thanks we're honored to have you so a lot of people of course watch this video will know who you know Edward L branch you know branches what would you like the audience that is just getting to know you maybe the two or three people that don't know you yeah would you like you know well you know the thing is after this many years you know on the on the road I think that a certain amount of it your consistency and faithfulness and all of that you know kind of speaks for itself you know and I think that for me yeah I just want people to know I've been on the road a while and that I intend to stay on this road because I believe in it yes yes yes so where'd you grow up well I actually grew up in Chicago I was born and raised there for the most part I'm the 11th of 13 of us and the first of my parents children though born in Chicago but we were back and forth from Chicago to Mississippi a lot which is where my parents were from and where they moved back to in nineteen eighty years and so I got a chance to actually live in Mississippi in the country yeah way out in the country no electricity no running water and all of that that came along later but it was a good life and I've learned as life continues I've learned to appreciate it oh yeah so I don't tell me about you know you're called to preach well that's that's interesting you know during my early years you know even as a child as a preteen I used to imitate a preacher named jage Lane his name was John Henry Lane out of Mississippi but he was in Chicago and he would preach revival for the church that I grew up in and which was Church this is new Mount Sinai Baptist Church in Chicago on the Westside and and so out of that you know playing church you know pretending to be JH Lane and all of that I guess I did zero in on a sense of call and in my mid-teens I started you know seeking the Lord about it and kind of asking you know hey is this something that you called him in to do is you know and if so give me some signs and all of that and everything I would pray for the Lord would answer and so in my mid-teens 15 16 years old I knew then that there was a call of God upon my life for the for the preaching ministry okay okay so where were you licensed I was licensed at new Mount Sinai in Chicago in 1973 that that was a time you know in my life that I really you know found myself more anchored in the life of the church and and growing in my understanding of ministry and of the Lord and and was licensed by the late Elijah Searcy and the Mount Sinai Baptist Church so tell me from there to pastoring so how did how did you get from there to yeah you know once I was licensed in ministry I have been serving all along as the organist for the Mount Sinai I played you know the organ every Sunday and and all of that and taught the choir and and and so forth and so it it just continued to grow in terms of ministerial responsibilities and and I started to preach you know around I was involved with the district Association and the state convention and the National Baptist Convention of America at that time and so there was a little bit of exposure for me especially as a young preacher coming along and so I had opportunities to preach you know many youth days and I said it with a grin because you know it's been a long times as a hasty youth day but you know back then and so I got married at 20 years old and after I got married we moved to Detroit to assist a pastor friend of mine who was called to a church there we were intending to just go there for a little while to help out and it did turn out to be a short while as far as working with that church in that pastor but it was bigger and broader for us and ministry in Detroit so that after I joined the New Bethel Baptist Church it was just a matter of months before I was called to third New Hope okay so you went to Detroit to assist at New Bethel now I went to Detroit to assist at New Jerusalem okay okay I was Church so how did how did you get from New Jerusalem to New Bethel well I left New Jerusalem after approximately six or eight months and join New Bethel Baptist Church from from going there I mean even before Detroit you know I knew of and Franklin and had you know wanted to meet him and all the rest and so I got the privilege of meeting you know this larger-than-life character and tremendous preacher everything that I had heard and known and in his recordings you never received about him you know was true and better than true and and and as a result I joined the Bethel Church and he just immediately embraced me in and and we started doing ministry there and I occasionally you know played the organ there and you know engaged in other areas of ministry at New Bethel until I went to third no and there may be some people that do not know do not know that you're talking about Reverend C L Franklin yes and even for our international audience that's a wreath of Franklin's father because they international most of our national audience would know right right it started out of course with a with miss Aretha being Reverend Franklin's daughter but uh but with her fame of course and in music and all the rest the tremendously gifted person that she is it soon became that you know Franklin is Aretha Franklin's daddy and so so yeah that's that's that was my mentor and and pastor so because you know in a lot of our estimation he is probably the most imitated preacher in african-american history because you are so close to him I think I would like to know an audience would like to know what reflections would she share about him because you know some of us we don't want to lose and you've done a wonderful job you did three years with a co Franklin conference so I know you don't want to lose that either so I'm gonna open up a space for you to say whatever you'd like to like to say because you know from not just having read about it yeah I heard about it you were there so yeah we're River Franklin of course as I stated you know larger than life personality to to me and for me to meet him was phenomenal but then to do ministry with him you know just took things over over the top shortly after joining New Bethel he called me and invited me to preach on a Sunday morning and it just totally blew me just blew me I mean for him to even call me you know was one thing but to be invited to New Bethel Baptist Church to preach you know with him sitting there that that was phenomenal but here's the thing numbers of folk who had met him in who had interacted with him you know had told me what to expect that he would never notice me that he was too busy that he had so much going on that I would you know just wouldn't even be a blip on the radar to him but it turned out to be otherwise he not only noticed to me but he invited me to participate in ministry he invited me to preach he complimented my preaching and at that time I didn't even walk to the pulpit with any meaningful level of confidence you know but afterwards you know hearing a person of his skill and his statue say such meaningful encouraging words it it was a turning point you know for me in my life and minister so so I I celebrate him even to this day and and I know that there's much of him that's in me because I paid close attention to him I watched his every move I listened to his every word I mean it was more than just listening to him preach I watched him walk I you know listen to his preliminaries the way he formed words you know the words he chose to use and and and and I watched his interaction with people and how his preaching interpreted two times for common people who for the most part were only victims of of the larger environment and concerns of life and who could not by any means make sense of much of what was going on politically socially and otherwise in our world but his preaching was something that made sense out of the world for common people and and I mean and still do today in his recordings many of which if it weren't for you know a statement or two year there where he may say what year it is or mentioned some event that happened you wouldn't know if he had preached that sermon last Sunday you know so I think that his preaching was solid and relevant and I think that the time came in my life and my ministry to you know to speak to that to say that this man of God was used of God in a particular time of history to be an instrument in God's hands for the sake of people mainly common people and and I think that's important you use that word common people several times so tell me about that that what was the make up of New Bethel well that's good that's good you know New Bethel at the time you know I had its you know top echelon of people you know the politicians that belong there the doctors and others but the bulk of the congregation were what I consider to be and I used word common every day people people who get up in the morning and who working hard out there many of which are using public transportation to get to work they are making just above minimum wages in most cases and they are the ones who I think not only Reverend Franklin's ministry appeal to but and and my reading of Scripture it's those are the same folk to whom Jesus appealed you know the everyday person when he says this come unto me all ye that labor and I have a laden it is reaching out to those individuals who are who are near the bottom rung of the social ladder who are the marginalized the rejected in many cases and those who not only are discounted by society sometimes but who see themselves as maybe less than what they really are in God so the the everyday common person and the late dr. Matt Carter used to say in talking about everyday people he said God must love him he made so many of them so what from your view made CEO Franklin River Franklin such a phenomenal preacher III think internally I think his own journey his own journey you know his family life is upbringing his environment in Mississippi was a strong part of that but but then also this man possessed an amazing gift of voice he had a he had music in his voice and he was particularly the tuned in to what was happening in preaching during his time I mean in the in the books are they written by Anik Salvatori as well as Jeff taiidan there there's so many statements that Reverend Franklin made himself you know concerning you know how he felt the call of God upon his life and and his own particular experiences and so when he when he came on the scene and he used that tremendous gift of voice to preach the good news of the gospel large numbers of footwork of course attracted to him and he became a preaching phenomenon most people not all but a lot of people lock in lock into what Bishop Timothy Clarke just say at the 11th the last seven minutes of the sir he's whooping but it was so much more than just that so give us you were closer I would say what I think well it's not important it's important you think you were close there's so much more than just the hoop and gone on in that sermon sir oh yeah I mean and during his hooping it was not just a lot of empty words during his hooping he was still engaged in that message and was still giving solid information and unfolding scripture you know even in his hooping and you know he had a last seven minutes but many of his sermons you know we could tell by numbers of his recordings some of them were only 20 minutes you know and so when you take away that seven minutes I mean you still have a considerable amount of time that he is spending expounding upon Scripture and he possessed a a special gift a peculiar gift at doing that as I said earlier because it was interpreting life and interpreting where his sermons everything from man on the moon I mean this was this was during the time that you know a lot of people especially African American people were skeptical about anybody really going to the moon you know you know announced all of this and all this on television or whatever you know for the community to believe it you know is is different but when Reverend Franklin you know preached about it and attempted to make more sense of it then it makes the whole concept more palatable to to people and so I think he had a gift for doing that so that he helped people understand it on a level that was more digestible for people so what would be your favorite remember Franklin's sermon ah well it's funny because I asked to River Franklin at one time which was his famous visit which was his favorite River Franklin sermon and he said that inner conflict I think you know if I had to pick one you know he says it's hard but if I had to pick one it would be they're in a conflict for me it's it's actually what is your life you know where he where he deals with from from the book of James but in it he tells the story of Jonah you know Jonah running away from God and he he brings it back and he makes he opens up that passage and he works through it in a way that helps all of us understand what life is and and our purpose and life and and God's will for our lives and again I have to say it is for me one of the greatest examples of his skill at interpreting Scripture and making it applicable to the current situation and his vocal skills at delivering that word including the whooping so he's at his best in that with with I think every part of what we refer to as preaching so listening to you voice is very important and preaching very important in his preaching so you know you've said it several times and just you know talking here so tell me about your sense what part of the voice is important to preaching I guess I you know the the thing about it is that when I talk about Reverend Co Franklin I particularly talk about his voice because that was something that was unique for him and the message I think out of that for me was used the gift that God has given me he used the gift that God gave him I must use the gift that God gave me you must use the gift God gave you every preacher must use the gift that God gave them and I think that when we use our gifts to the best of our ability employing them developing them honing them that we show our faithfulness to the preaching assignment so yeah voice is important but I think the individuals voice you know so that no one is out here to be someone else and no one is measured by someone else's gift only by the gift that God has given them and so our whole River Franklin in that because I think it would have been a tragedy had he not used the tremendous voice that he had but at the same time no other preacher should attempt to use Reverend Franklin's gift because that was for Reverend Franklin to do and I mean there was there's been times in my ministry you know early on I would go places and be introduced as you know CEO Franklin's son I mean it started as son in the ministry but after a while you know you know this is a son of C and so people expect me to live up to his a standard of preaching and all the rest to which you know I always said you know if you give me a chance I'll be the best eel branch you've ever heard but I can't be CL Franklin so what are your gifts in preaching well I think you know as as I began to move along and to develop in this thing of ministry and preaching I began to zero in passionately and otherwise on connecting with people and [Music] focusing on building relationships with people and helping people further develop and strengthen relationships they have with others and and so I think that that if you know if I have to answer that question I would say hey my gift is is helping people maintain develop and maintain healthy and wholesome relationships you know and I want to do it through preaching so that if if there's anything there would run through all of my sermons and preaching you know as a golden thread that that would probably be it you know I'm going to say something about us living in this word together getting along with each other not being each other's judges but each other's brothers and sisters so how would you characterize your preaching narrative expository or neither any of that how would you characterize well you know we start out early on you know you say okay we got the narrative we got the expository you know we got the topical in the texture old and all that so I think that I'm much more of a topical preacher okay which you know of course you know that that one of course is sometimes probably the one that gets the bad name but but I'm much I think I'm much more of a topical preacher but I I do it texturally and expository I want to always give an exposition of the text however I noticed myself in mind you know latter years and maybe as far as maybe last 15-20 years that I'm doing much more narrating in my sermons as well as I developed my approach to my topic so it's a hodgepodge of all of that in there but I think the dominant thing would still remain that I'm basically a topical preacher so I want to ask you to define topical because you know it's a man topical over here everybody's got even exposure here's a hundred definite event so how would you define topical well topical preaching to me means that the the focus the commitment and the loyalty of the sermon is on the text Fame and title okay probably more so than the exposition of the passage so that the commitment so that once I announce a what it is I'm talking about I'm gonna stay committed to that I mean I am NOT going everywhere else I'm not I'm not going I'd rather give that topic and go deep into it than to go broad and try to spread everything so thin that that there's no depth to what I'm talking about so so the commitment to the topic to me is important because I don't think that it helps as a preacher to present more and this may be just my concept then people can digest I mean if you give them more I use the illustration it's like going into the grocery store with a basket and going down all of these aisles and picking items and putting them in that basket going up to the counter and you know where the cashier rings them up and you pay for them and then they're still all there on that conveyor and they say okay take them as yours without any without a bagger without any bags without boxes or anything for you to care I'm away with you know and so I think that the commitment to structure and sermon preparation focus on a on a topic and staying within that topic is like the bags that help you carry your items away yes so would you use to do what you use more than one scripture when you preach topically or is it are you principally in one text I'm principally committed to one text and and in far too many cases I guess not all of that text and you know for some of us that do a lot of preaching you know if you if you're preaching three or four five six times a week or something you know you you have to you have to be kind of sparing with the amount of text that you use because you want to come back and there's other thoughts and other parts of this text so so sometimes you know I'm using two verses or three verses or or so and that's it and I rather try to give a solid exposition of those you know then to work with the longer passage that for me maybe you know two sermons or four sermons you know so tell me about your sermon preparation method well my summer preparation method begins with a proposition you know the late dr. Samuel DeWitt Proctor in his book the certain sound of the trumpet which you know from the time he wrote that when I been I I commit myself to read that one at least once every year and during the time I was teaching preaching at in seminary I uh you know probably for every class I taught and preaching that was if it was not one of the primary texts it was on the list but in that he talks specifically about the development that proposition and so what I do is anything that may grab me whether I'm reading the Bible and there's a passage that you know kind of screams preach me or if I'm driving down the road and see a billboard or or here's some other incident that gives me something from that idea I attempt to develop a proposition and once I develop that proposition then I began to build everything around it to make it into a sermon hopefully okay so you start with a proposition and then what's next well once I once I develop that proposition I start to think about resources you know I say hey you know what you know what what else am I going to do here and you know in my later years I guess I'm doing a whole lot more from inside in terms of things and experiences that I've had you know I used to wonder years ago how so many of our senior pastors could could just stand there you know and tell story after story you know as they made points in their sermons but I've lived a while now I know how because because you live so many things that so many experiences come and so I began to to just kind of you know pray about this and reach out and in my mind and spirit as well as thinking about you know material that I've read other sermons I've heard and all the rest that may provide me with inspiration and sermon material then [Music] getting to the books meaning hitting the Bible dictionaries and the commentaries and all the rest which I usually bring them on late in the in the process but but I'm writing you know I mean and and I still do to a great degree writing with a pen and paper you know as opposed to I do a lot of notes you know on my iPad or my computer or my smartphone but for me writing it puts it in my mind and spirit in a way that that typing it does not do so I still write quite a bit so I write down my thoughts and I start to build around that and I pull material and all the rest and and and continue to work on the development of it so so I want to develop that proposition I want to identify my thesis I want to identify the antithesis because I feel like if if I don't have the problem or the challenge here then I don't have a sermon so because the sermons got to be about something correcting something improving something developing something and so I need to know what that antithesis is and so that's where I spend a lot of time so if I'm getting that antithesis the thesis and then I you know just lay that out together and then I move to what Proctor calls the relevant question and once I get there I'm um I'm in there you know I'm in the zone because there I can begin to respond to that question and this is of course another thing that makes it topical because that relevant question then is like the engine that guides the rest of that message until I get to a point of rest in my case as we say you know like a attorney who's argued in the court room and alright and you put it all out there and I rest my case and then of course after that is the celebration so I want to get to the celebration and then what question would ask before we jump there so are you manuscript preacher or I preach without notes I preached from I guess you could say from memory I develop it I write it I have a manuscript I don't take it to the pulpit with me I don't use it years ago I used to take it to the floor with me I mean it used to be in my Bible I did I've I've never been a manuscript preacher nor do I use any kind of notes in the pulpit I just never been I admire preachers who can do that and do it well and while I was president of via Manny's state convention of Michigan and the counselor Baptist pastors of Detroit vicinity also served as dean of our state Congress of Christian education and in those positions I gave annual addresses and so I attempted on those occasions to use a manuscript you know and you know I think I did okay but that was not my zone of comfort you know I'm I feel more much more comfortable preaching without notes but of course my mind is still in that manuscript yes yes I call it oral composition okay you know you're composing and you're not composing ex nihilo out of nothing mm-hmm you're composing out of a manuscript that you written out and you prayed over one you go alive it's just a composition and it's the genius of black preaching it even if you don't have that gift there's some people that the manuscript you know so when I preach I say I'm 75% to the manuscript I'm gonna go with the manuscript but $0.25 what I say another manuscript you know it happens in the moment so either way and I think your word to everybody is you know we all have different voices different gifts find the way that works for you and I I love the oral composition crowd I mean just again you know it's it's it's being composed you know in front of us so you know I think everybody's used a gift of God gave my good job I appreciate you saying that you're 75% manuscripts so 25% of what you say is not on there because as I age you know it's like there's a whole lot more on my manuscript then you hear me saved because and I have to write so much more so it may be 30 40 50 percent more in there in my manuscript because I know I'm going to forget that about that much so that I can still do it so I do a lots of writing and I and so if I intend to give three four points to a sermon I probably better have five or six points in my manuscript because if I forget one I don't want it to be obvious you know so if I forget one here it's going to be a I did that just recently happened to me and I was like it was Matt effect turned out to be the first point I could not remember for the life of me what it was but I had another point or two or you know so this so so thank you for that that all compositions well you know we didn't see you know why I stressed as good people think that you know you just show up there and you know it's a God gives it to you thank God does give it to you but you help God with a lot of work yeah it takes a lot of preparation let's go to the celebration side you know I've said this to you before you explain to me why I was not a Hooper and at the end of the last the third seal Franklin conference in Detroit when you were you were the host and you were closing the conference you decided to make some remarks they weren't really planned I don't eat I don't think they were and you were just talking about preaching and talking about C L Franklin I mean you start talking about hooping and it was just the most powerful 15 minutes and you know that I've said to you need to write that you can publish that it was just what you know about it it just flowed out of you you know to experience the years you see it stuff like it takes 500 sermons you remember that yeah you know these are it takes 500 sermons so that's about it you do 50 sermons that's 10 years to really perfect and you were talking about hooping and then you say and you have to be able to understand scales and if you don't understand scales you don't understand whooping so that's all I want to say in scale so that explains to me wow thank you very much we explained to me why I'm not a Hooper so I just want you to share you have so much wisdom in this and an experience in depth and down just in that 15 minutes you were just mesmerizing oh thank you well you know the I'll start with that 500 sermon thing you know because we none of us none of us should think or expect to be the best we can be overnight you know it's going to take it's gonna take some work that's going to take some preacher it's going to take time and doing it not just reading about it sitting in classes on it hearing others do it it's going to take some time doing it 500 sermons is probably what it takes for us to build within ourselves our authentic preaching voice so that we are totally who we are so that Yale branch is not just a mixture of Samuel DeWitt Proctor and Claire's Levon Franklin and Elijah Searcy and Wilbur Daniel you know and other preachers that I've known and loved and admired you know through the years because the time has to come that ye o branch can speak and that and that I'm totally me and that's where I think that it that five hundred sermons preached is about the time that that begins to click and as you say if you preach 50 sermons of you and I said that's the pastor with with with their own bull of it that gets to do that and it would take ten years to to accomplish that you know some will do it more you know who preached the root revival all the rest but uh but yeah it's about that and and so the the whole thing of developing who you are whether or not you are gifted to close a sermon in a particular way if you're gonna close a sermon I mean and I've heard some of the best sermons without a tune without a hoop without a squall without pulling it as we say and and and so that's not and I think all of us agree that that is not what makes so sermon that is not what makes preaching but for us in the african-american church world it is an integral part of who we are and and it fits in well for us you know and and and I want to say as well that as a quote-unquote Hooper I mean what becomes a challenge for us us who are known to be and especially those of us who are you know true Hooper's not you know when you talk about Hooper is not just a tuner that there's some preachers who can tune you know so they can grab a note and they can you know they can tune they can cruise along that note that's one thing there there's some who can who can holla I mean and Hollow owner note and you know they go along and they hit that Hollow you know or whatever it might be but that's not whooping whooping is is is an art form and it is and it is based on musical scales you know as I was as I was saying and usually the person who is a Hooper is familiar with in many cases also gifted as a singer and who and though they may not know mechanically and intellectually exactly what they are doing they know what they are doing when it comes to following you know musical tones in and that and to be able to do that at the same time that you are continuously giving a message and saying something of substance you know it it takes work and and you you sacrifice probably a number of good sermons in your efforts to develop that scale you know so I had a friend I had a friend who I mean he would tell me said you know I get my hoop together and then I decide what am i preaching you know and na he was a tremendous hooper and they and he was effective with it but you know and mo and in in most cases the the build up you know from the start of that sermon as as you know i say to preachers for the preservation of a voice because sometimes people you know want to know you know it's a hoop of how do you you know keep your voice out here you know preach four five six times in a week and you know and still maintaining what the voice can do tremendous things if you treat it properly if you abuse it then you're going to spend most of your time horse or with a sore throat or whatever it may be but if you start off in conversation tone and only raise your voice minimally as your vocal cords warm by the time you build to point your vocal cords are warm and the elasticity of your vocal cords can handle it they can handle it you don't need all of the you know some more hot water some one cold water some more lemons and some one this is that in the other you don't need any of that your body will do that for you if you treat your voice right and and so to build and to pay attention to that and to prepare the material in your sermon so that if this point requires a lot of energy and effort and passion to express don't put that early in your sermon because you're going to you're gonna overload you're gonna burn yourself out and many times the crowd is gonna go with you so they're gonna take you up there and your voice won't be able to finish that that message in many cases but if you arrange your summer material so that you're building that crescendo and your rising and by the time you get to the celebration you're ready to go and and so you know and it and the progress of it I think many of Reverend Franklin so I mean there's others too you know dr. Jasper Williams is probably a great example of you know preaching with a sense of skill and um and and who moves through it you know methodically you know and so forth too and and gets to that conclusion to the end of that sermon at that celebration and then is able to close in a way that they I guess they're the younger priests is now saying you know shut it down you know the language user so you can shut it down at a certain level and and do so very comfortably so what you say you know there's a lot of discussion about whether or not hooping is dead so what would you say that's a part of this discussion something is there something it's not gonna ever die but yeah well you know I think like like many like many things it has his best seasons and you know and sometimes it sometimes the occasion may not be the most suitable place for whooping but whooping is alive because it is so engrained within us and because so many preachers possess the gift and I think it's a lot of preachers who yet possess the gift who've not yet on earth that and developed it and put in the time to develop it I think that lots of preachers who do not who would love to I think I'm one of those you know I mean would love to and but but here is a preacher who is known as a Hooper who will say to you that one of the drawbacks if there's you know if you could call it a drawback is that I'm invited places to preach I'm known as a Hooper if I go to those places to preach and do not hoop then it will be said that Yale branch just talked to us today or your branch lectured whereas if because the Holy Spirit may not in every sermon lead us to close in the same way I'm I consider myself fortunate that I'm invited to so many different events and occasions and although I'm known as a Hooper I do not have to hoop all the time I do now I am NOT one of those anymore that but you know fun and revival I think that's an expectation for me if they invite me I think that they want the yield branch that they invited as oh yeah as a Hooper but you know I you know do everything from you know service speaker at banquets I teach you know I and I lecture and and I preach occasions and shall we say in other faith traditions and and I like to be appropriate and and I like to feel that that that's okay for me to be appropriate for for for those occasions I was I recently will benefit few years back preset a church I was preached there are many occasions but this was a occasion where the building was being what do you call it inducted into the Historical Society to become a historical structure and so lots of people who were not a part of that particular church were also there for the event so people of broug a variety of faith traditions were there and and so when it was time for me to come in to bring this sermon I preached you know that that church like I always do I tried to be ill branch the one that they invited to come and and so and so when it was over white gentleman walked up to me and he was I mean he was really excited and he started shaking my hand and he was like he was pumping for water he was just going using he said that was that was and then he said energetic you know so uh it's about you know kind of understanding you know what is an understanding you know how much in fact it is a part of the black church a black church preaching tradition and and so often I mean I just finished revival this past week and and the people who come up to me and say things like you took me back home or you know you now that's that's what I call preaching you know I mean these are the things that people would will say because for so many of them especially those who are 50 60 70 years old it's what they are are familiar with and what they knew growing up and and all the rest and so I don't think it's going anywhere I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon and as long as they are preachers who are gifted to who hoping is gonna be around well first of all thank you for telling me it's not too late to become a hoop you know I just by giving it all up you know I think I've given up ten years ago that's right so tell me about do you think with Millennials do you find that I know with with you know all the generations of our page and such do you think with Millennials hooping is still a value or valuable yeah I think it is I think it is for several reasons one I think it is because authenticity is important to Millennials for people to be who they are and to you know just be just be yourself I mean I I find it amazing that at the stage in my life and you know with my preaching and the large numbers of folk that I'm blessed to preach to you know around this country and beyond the comments that I receive from not only Millennials but from younger generations coming along that who-who tap into not only the words of the sermon but also the delivery of the sermon the sermon structure and all of the rest I'm blown away sometimes by it and I think that Millennials want preachers to be who they are and use the gifts that they possess so the other thing is this that we meaning the baby boomers and Generation X Xers projects something on to Millennials that they you know that they are not claiming for themselves we're just something that's projected on the wfx conference it you know tailed around the country there it's done by church builders but they focus on worship and everything else that is associated with it with church life and but but one of the things I found particularly was that they projected models of church buildings up on the screen and acts those of us present which was probably mostly baby boomers and Generation Xers which of these forms of buildings do you think today's worshipers treasure most or phimosis attractive and you know one was like a building you couldn't tell what it was but it was a church it was just a modern structure another one's more like a theater kind of thing you know and all of that and any other was something in between that and the last one was the old traditional church with a steeple and a cross on the top is it now which one of these with this generation I'd be most attracted to and of course the answer was the traditional church because for them that's Church however that came to be whether it's through the images and icons and emojis or whether it's so to me even the younger crowd picked the traditional Church right okay okay no and and I mean I was kind of amazed - but but but since that time you know I I began to understand I'm gonna understand that a lot of what we meaning again baby boomers project on to Millennials is not necessarily what they actually feel and believe themselves and I think that a lot of it when it comes to preaching I think that they they are open and they want they want what they believe and and they can hear truth it appears no matter who it comes through but they want that person to be for real with them and not play-acting wanted to be authentic and and I think they receive it very well they as far as I'm concerned whooping is gonna be around and as long as I'm around and can still do it it's done it's gonna be done and and I cuz I don't know how to I don't know how to print whooping you know I got to do a Volvo so you mentioned revivals how many revivals are you doing here well you know right now I'm I'm probably somewhere between about twelve and fifteen revivals a year now years ago I would I would do a lot more but of course years ago revivals were five nights you know you preached five nights and sometimes I would do you know three weeks or five weeks you know in a role of of that kind of preaching and still preach on Sunday morning but after becoming president of you know these groups to stay convention and council Baptist pastors in Detroit you know kind of went cut down some because of other demands and all the rest so I could not keep up that kind of a schedule and and so at this point you know I just kind of you know kind of should say discriminate a little bit in terms of what I can do and can't do because I'm doing I'm doing you know three and four or five services on a Sunday so you know so in so many ways I do a revival everything it was under more look so but it's it's great yeah it's a part of me you know I love it and and when I don't do revivals I miss it you know and and it's it's it's just part of why and so what do you like about preaching revivals well III love it I love the night after night experience with with the people of God I also enjoy you know being with different congregations in different places and different cities and all the rest even though I've probably done more revivals in the city I live in then you know I think probably anybody else two lives in this in the city and I you know appreciate that appreciate you know pastors who think enough of me to invite me to come and but it's it's it's special revivals are special because of their focus because you it's about the spiritual renewal and restoration it's about evangelism and outreach you know it's about focus on church life and spiritual life and and it's plenty of things to preach about in those areas so so that that's and then you know revival sermons are you know are geared around those particular elements and once you start to develop those summons around those you you you you have plenty and supply so I you know so I I love it so that leads me to think that a revival sermon has a form so what would you identify as the form of the revival sermon that might be different and then the Sunday morning sermon though it may be the same I'm just exploring with you well probably I guess for me the difference is the is the is the focus and it's and it's also something that you know it's taken from one place to another so that you can share this with numbers of congregations Sunday morning preaching you know with people that you've formed in my case you know people I've been preaching to for years you know and many of which I know their stories I know of life incidents and experiences with lots of the people and their families on Sunday morning and so it's more it's more pastoral on Sunday morning then the van revival is a revival you're you can you can be a bit more open in preaching meaning you you you're not likely to be preaching to people that you just counseled with so so that you're sensitive to information that may appear to be divulging some of those concerns and so you're freer to express things and to and this year you know so if I'm in San Bernardino California you know then I can I can preach there in a way that speaks to a more general concern and need for congregations and individuals for spiritual renewal growth development and commitment and all the rest so one of my suspicions is that revival sermons tend to be deliverance sermons I mean that maybe that's just my suspicious so you can confirm or that that the corpus would include the three Hebrew boys and I'll deliver from the fiery furnace Paul and Silas in jail deliver and that's not all it is but I'm trying to identify the the sermonic form the forms of sermon that read that reside in a revival environment and one eye notices that the liver is sermon so what you agree with me on that I agree that many revivalist do indeed focus on that or similar and I think that that's important to us to a certain degree the part of it I have discovered and really do believe in my spirit that revival preaching could and should focus on the individuals need for spiritual renewal sometimes for self-examination to heighten their own personal commitment to to God to ministry to their local congregations and to service you know and so what I attempt to do in revivals is to think in terms of theme for so if I'm if I'm gonna be preaching next weekend revival I I will probably save one of those nights would be centered around worship helping people identify for themselves those kind of things that's going to assist them in having a true worship experience okay one of those nights should center around fellowship which which is of the connections that people ought to have with each other and and and all that and then maybe one of those nights and and I often will do with center around stewardship okay you know and then another night will center around discipleship you know and so that so that I'm not coming each night with the same theme you know so that and then the selection of passages of Scripture you know could fit in those areas you know a recent revival a case in point I won I talked about spiritual renewal through worship okay so that we are talking about you know recharging our spiritual batteries like we do the batteries on our cell phone and like you do on your car you know we we you know we need to have our times of renewal you know dr. Proctor called it spiritual fatigue you know and and the reason that a lot of people just kind of burnout in a worn and worn out and used up and and we we aren't going to move ministry forward with lots of people in that category so we so we focus on that at least one one night and so that the the altar prayer if there's one and and the Bible readings and all the rest can center in on that so that at least on that night of revival people can kind of gauge their own spiritual batteries you know and see where they are and if they see that they are running low that they can do what needs to be done to to get boosts so that it ain't all about Daniel in the lion's den and if you do boys in the fiery furnace which that that's good too because many people are gonna need that but that's one night you know I'm saying but not every thank you so much thank you for opening it that up and helping me and helping all of our viewers to kind of see the kind of thinking and prayer and love for the church and love for God that goes into into all preaching a particular Connie so when all these years of preaching do you have a favorite sermon I you know I do I think there are sermons that you know kind of stand out in different time periods and depend upon what's going on and so for like that but one of one of the sermons that I think I would consider my favorite is the one I call cleaning up the Jericho Road anybody tell me well there's a broken brother laying on the road you know and you know well the thing about it for me is that it that sermon tends to challenge the conviction of any believer in terms of how is your faith worked out in practical behavior and actions and in service to humankind to be religious and to be churchy and to do nothing of essence or meaning of value it's futile you know we and so and so that's what that someone does for me it it zeroes in on okay now let's see what we gonna do we see in here what the what the priests did and what the Levite did let's see what you gonna do and what I'm going to do and whatever we do let's identify what motivates us to do that you know and so and so and so that that's it and and of course the key to it to me is is that after we pick up people who've been beaten up on the Jericho Road we aren't finished until we do something to alleviate the problem on the Jericho Road because to keep picking people up without challenging the forces that are beating them up and leaving them their broken in the first place is spiritually irresponsible you know and so and so I invited at the end of that I invite people to come join the cleanup crew and I tell them the whole list of folk from Mike and and Isaiah and Amos you know who was on the cleanup crew and and and the fact that Martin Luther King jr. and Malcolm oh then we're on the cleanup crew and that Jesus was on the cleanup crew and so when you join the cleanup crew you'd be in good company as we clean up the Jericho roads of our time well thank you for this a marvelous some interview for your generosity of time and energy and I'm really appreciative and I want to give you anything that you want to say that I missed anything that's on your heart to say I could have we could have asked it all or you know it's such an inexhaustible subject always at least likely well I mean if you give me a moment to say what I want to say I I just really would have to use that moment to command you because of the work that you are doing and because of what you've brought to preaching and you know you express your gratitude for my coming here but I'm overwhelmingly grateful for just being invited to sit with you who who has represented preaching for so many years and I've done it well and will continue to do it well and and for what you're doing in this area of of black preaching and continuing through this ph.d program too kind of secure it for the future and so that where I'm taking my time to do is to commend you and encourage you and to say you know whatever I could do to be helpful to you and you know from here forward you know I'm at your disposal well thank you for that sir it's we have been given this gift of a tradition it's been passed on to us okay curries Frederick Samson's you know breakthrough all see how Franklin this has been passed to us and I think that we have to and I know you agree we would really talk to the choir there's an honor it to value it to for me write it up so that it doesn't go away right to archive it and to raise a generation of scholars who will be committed to keeping the tradition so what I hope is there'll be 25 under my watch PhDs who go into the world to teach uphold write about explore keep it going cuz it's not just you know what we've done up to this point it's gotta change evolve in a connection with what's already been when you disconnect the new stuff from what's already being I mean you acted by yourself right but to this lineage and we still have some of the same racial hatred you know segregation some of the same stuff we've always that the black church has always been dealing with and it's amazing to see how long this tradition has been and what it is done and what it will do in the future so I I am you know it's crazy but I just thank God for making me a black preacher I mean it's just a beautiful yeah absolutely it's a beautiful tradition it's just I'm so grateful for it I know and I know that we had to suffer and then you don't get there without a lot of stuff that we had to go through but there's an old joke where a guy asked a preacher said what if he wasn't a preacher what would you be and he said why I'd be ashamed of myself thanks so much then you keep out you keep up to just a great work and I'm gonna keep saying you write that stuff down I'm doing my best at it you know so I'm making notes I'm doing things and you know we're gonna pull it all together at some point cuz what you know is it's genius it's just what you know even even a little bit that you've been able to articulate to us in these three minutes you know the depth of thought the creativity the way to put it together to be able to explain it to somebody else I just want to support you anything I can do to help you with that because so much of our genius goes to the grave when our preachers and you've got so much senior so thank you so much for sharing with us [Music]

Channel: Frank Thomas

Views: 7,325

Rating: 4.8319325 out of 5

Keywords: Black preaching, African American Preaching, Third New Hope Baptist Church, Christian Theological Seminary, Phd Program African American Preaching, Dr. Edward L Branch, Frank A. Thomas, PhD Program Black Preaching, PhD Program African American Preaching, Whooping, Tuning

Id: rTlk4_r9MiI

Length: 79min 21sec (4761 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 26 2018