A Church in Crisis | Episode 52

in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen eternal father you called saint philip the evangelist to open his mouth and beginning with scripture tell the good news of jesus christ by virtue of our baptism we too are called to work for the salvation of souls instill in our hearts the zeal of saint philip that we may convert hearts and minds to your son jesus christ our savior who lives and reigns with you and the holy spirit one god for ever and ever amen amen in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen well we are here with ralph martin and we're going to be discussing his latest book a church in crisis uh my name is luke arredondo i'm the director of faith formation here for the saint philip institute of catechesis and evangelization i am joined by deakin keith fournier and of course bishop joseph strickland um so we are really excited to have ralph here i'm gonna let deacon keith give an introduction to to ralph because he's known him a very long time and is the most fit most qualified to do that so tell us about who ralph is it's wonderful to see you ralph and i was asked when i walked in how long i've known you 40 years maybe even more and you have always loved the lord with heart and mind and strength you're a man in love with jesus christ you proclaim the gospel without compromise and the teaching of the catholic church in its fullness you guard the deposit of faith always had i believe a prophetic gift a capacity to see things that other people don't quite see and help us to see them but always keeping that evangelical joy now dr ralph martin is an accomplished scholar with his doctorate from rome but he's always been a passionate disciple an evangelizer and someone who is waking the church up i remember reading crisis of truth i think that was 1982 right that's right yeah that's right and you know it was so powerful and it it really opened people's eyes and i like you and you mentioned this in church in crisis you know i guess i was deluded because we lived through the magnificent pontificate of pope st john paul ii and now pope emeritus benedict and i thought we really had secured the ground and a lot of what you brought up in crisis of truth boy just as you said it was secure now we've gotten back to dynamic orthodoxy but then all of a sudden it became obvious that wasn't the case at all and some of the oldest errors are coming back with a vengeance and you talk about them all in the book but dr ralph martin is also a wonderful husband and a father now i don't even know this is your grandfather oh yeah yes i i have 19 grandchildren 19 grandchildren that is just wonderful yeah yeah i only have seven grandchildren but god bless you and he is a great speaker i can remember back in the early days of the steubenville miracle when you and my dear mentor and friend father michael work together so profoundly in the fire ministry and the early conferences you've aged well you still have that light of life but i think ralph i i really believe this this book is so profound it's going to do more than wake up you also give us the path forward and i'm hoping that as we go forward in this podcast not only can you point out where the crisis points are so they can be exposed and opposed but then you can lead us on that path forward so dr ralph martin is a gift from god not just for the catholic church that's another thing you've always had a passion for christian unity and you've worked with christians across the confessional spectrum and i think that is also a particular gift that you have and i honor you for that so i'm happy you're here and i'm thrilled that bishop gets a chance to to meet you i came here a little over a year ago lorena and i moved here at his invitation and i'm so honored to really just even hold his arms up he's a great man of god and you're a great man of god that was a great introduction yeah well i'm really uh feel very blessed to be able to beat bishop strickland because he's been one of the rare voices that are sort of telling the truth and really telling the truth that's what i would say about the condition of the church and what the truth of the faith is and that's so important today well thank you um dr martin it's uh it really is a crisis but i think we'd all agree that the clarification between darkness and light there's there's a an opportunity there as well because i'm 62 i won't talk about anybody else's age but we're probably all about in the same ballpark except this young guy um and in my lifetime there's been a lot of gray and as as dr luke mentioned i think we're we're seeing the the fruit of that if you can call it for the spoiled fruit of not paying attention and not teaching well there's so many different issues um really i'd be interested in uh it's probably a tough question to answer but i'll ask it anyway what would you say is one of i know they're more than one but one of the key foundational elements of this crisis that people need to wake up to yeah well in chapter one of the book i i lay out the whole range of things which even people have been very very close to these things have told me they never saw it all put together and to see how deep and pervasive it is but then chapter two is titled is there a solid place to stand yeah you know is there a solid place to stand and i think it begins with scripture i think a lot of catholics are very fuzzy about what the catholic church really teaches about how we should approach sacred scripture and uh in that chapter well even you know you have in rome the head of the jesuits kind of like when he's being interviewed about marriage and divorce uh he said well you know this is what we think jesus said but were you there with a tape recorder we don't really know what he said and and you know once you put a big question mark over scripture like that anything goes you know if there's no authoritative revelation that god has made to us it comes to us the scripture tradition and the magisterium the church anything goes that's what's happening so i i really try to do in that chapter tell them vatican 2 teaches in the constitutional sacred revelation this section 11 everything asserted by the sacred authors should be considered to be asserted by the holy spirit and to teach faithfully firmly and without error those truths which god wish to consign to the sacred writings for the sake of our salvation amen so this is there for our salvation you know and uh what what jesus says and what the apostles say is the whole foundation of the church and that's what's carried forward is sacred tradition and that's what we find in the catechism for the catholic church i also tell people that they're nibbling around the edges of the catechism right now but they haven't taken any big bites out of it and you know if you want to know what the church teaches the catechism is a reliable guide and it carries forward what scripture reveals one of the things i really enjoyed about this book dr martin is the way that throughout it you don't try and propose any sort of radical or new or fancy solution that you have so much ingenuity you've got the magic bullet that's going to get us out of this but you're constantly pointing us back to those those realities sacred scriptures sacred to the sacred tradition liturgy authentic spiritual lives that are cultivated in virtue and and forming an authentic christian character and vocation um i think that that is really really helpful that you didn't try to paint a bleak picture and then say you know i've got the plan here to get us out the plan's already there in a certain way we already know it um and in that in that chapter is there a solid place to stand i really like the way that you say that there is room for historical critical scholarship of the bible but it's there to help us and not veil the meaning of the word of god from us and i thought that that was a really profound insight because uh it it is not we're not trying to say that we're some sort of fundamentalist but that we really believe in an authentic interpretation of scripture that is of course guarded by the magisterium so i i really was uh just so happy to see how often you came back to those those those three realities of scripture tradition um and the magisterium yeah well on the most important issues that most affect our salvation scripture is super clear you know like for example the whole area of sexual morality first corinthians chapter six paul says don't let anybody deceive you the immoral will not enter the kingdom of god and the uh word that's translated immoral is actually porneia and the new translation is going to come out for the new american bible they're going to translate it as sexual immorality and it goes on to be specific the fornicator the adulterer the person who engages in homosexual activity the thief the robber the drunkard the idolater will not enter the kingdom of god so what could be clearer what could be a clear association assertion of scripture and it's nice not an isolated text you know galatians chapter 5 says those who do these things will not enter the kingdom of god ephesians chapter 5 says the impure person will not inherit the kingdom of god and because of this the wrath of god is breaking out against the world so i mean revelations 21 there the fornicator is going to be thrown into the lake of fire now this is shocking but it's shocking it's trying to shock us out of our blindness it's trying to shock us out of our rebellion it's trying to shock us out of our arrogance and pride it's trying to shock us into salvation and ralph i i really appreciate that and and one of the things that really has impacted me from your book i haven't finished it yet but i did read the part where you're talking about scripture in that real effort a conce a concerted effort to bracket scripture and i like that word because it's an it was a new realization for me i've been a priest 35 years and certainly i know that you look at the lectionary and there's certain sections left out and i i gave a homily already on that and said we have to be very careful because certainly that applies to scripture but i think in a very real sense there's a tendency what we're dealing with in the church is more than a tendency a real effort to bracket out the hard things the cross the suffering i mean today's mass the the reading was from revelation talking about the lamb the the lamb of god died was sacrificed and it's like we're trying to bracket out all the things that may challenge us and for myself personally and as a bishop as a disciple and for all of us that's exactly what we need to look at uh i'd love to to have a book that said these are all the things that have been bracketed out and we're going to find the tougher words right there yeah you know i i really agree and just just the other day in the in the liturgy in their liturgical readings they bracketed out so much you know of the consequences of not using our talents or not welcoming the king right you know and one day we had a meeting with washroosh of ignorant at the seminary where i teach and i asked them the question about the bracketing and he said sometimes he thinks it's generally to shorten a really long reading you know like a really long genealogy but he says sometimes unfortunately it looks like they're shying away from those truths that the culture doesn't want to hear that we're afraid to upset people by and that's really that's really terrible you know if that's happening that's really terrible it looks like it is sometimes even in the shortest readings they'll bracket out the conclusion of the parable where people are in the outer darkness we try and actually admit they're in their teeth they're trying to they're trying to bracket out they're trying to break out the consequences of not responding to the mercy of god and pretending that because god is merciful all we have to do is kind of eat drink and be married because god's so merciful nobody will ever go to hell which is a total falsehood total falsehood about what the lord told faith faustina you know right in the middle of the divine mercy revelations the lord takes her on a send an angel to take her on a tour of hell so nobody would presume on god's mercy and realize that there has to be a response to mercy there has to be faith there has to be repentance there's to be a change of life and these are universalism is one of the isms you talk about several isms that have re-emerged with a vengeance proportionalism consequentialism you know these are things that i thought i thought particularly with splendor of truth and the gospel of life and the whole magisterium of john paul and then benedict and this you know beautiful beautiful instruction that we really had re-secured the ground but my goodness it's like an old uh monster from a horror movie that just won't die it just keeps coming back yeah yeah i do i do think about but i've heard about a horror movie where somebody says he's back and and and it's back now it's shocking because it must have been hiding underground i mean there must have been a lot of people that didn't like what was going on with john paul ii and benedict they were just biding their time i one of the motivations for this book is i was invited to give a theological paper at georgetown university on the 50th anniversary of vatican ii and uh some graduate students in louvain by the theology department there kind of importune their chairman to invite me to give a talk because of my book on uh will many be saved what vatica2 actually teaches and uh it was quite a remarkable eye-opening experience it was like the whole atmosphere was happy days are here again the spirit of vatican 2 is back now at that point i had no idea what was going to happen under the pontificate of pope francis i you know i was excited about his poverty i was excited about him driving a ford focus i was excited about him living in you know the guest house i thought that was really cool reaching out to the peripheries all that kind of stuff but uh the keynote speaker was cardinal casper who was such a strong influence on the sentence of the family and really wanted that loophole there which has caused so much controversy in the church about the possibility of married and divorced people who don't have an annulment receiving communion and uh he was the keynote speaker but the other speakers were father charles curran yep yeah and you know he had to leave catholic university was he led the descent which had such a terrible effect on the church went to southern methodist university father roger height father peter fond all these theologians that were corrected by the congregation for the doctrine of faith were back and like sort of celebrating like they knew something about what was going to happen that we didn't know and so when covet hit uh i i all my travel was canceled and i really had a chance to do this book and uh so it's one of the silver linings you know for me at kobe but uh something was really up that other people knew it made me give credence to the whole saint gallon theory of orchestrating the conclave so no question about it that pope francis is a legitimate pope no question about it says a lot of really good things but i don't know why he's tolerating so much confusion and division and why he's allowing contradictory interpretations by whole bishops conferences to go well and i just read in the book the whole question of liberation theology and i remember the the image from i guess the news but i remember the picture of john saint john paul ii wagging his finger in the face of a priest there and the the liberation theology is is sweeping the church again and and the key issue that i have is it has nothing to do with the salvation of souls it's all about this world and yeah that's not liberating from anything ultimately and that's what really troubles me that you capture in the book that we're more and more and i've actually had brother bishops that said you know joe you need to you need to calm down on the liber the salvation of souls we've we've got to worry about borders and all these things that we're so concerned about i didn't sign up to be a social worker and that's what we're many priests and bishops are much more into the social worker world than being pastors and telling people turn from sin and live the gospel yeah it's frustrating yeah praise the lord you know to hear a bishop say that it's really really great but uh you see why i moved here i do and it isn't like catholic social teaching isn't important and valid i mean our our love for humanity means that we want justice for people we want a clean environment we we want economic equality for people and things like that we want good things to happen for people but uh what's been happening in the last couple of years seems like more and more the emphasis on indeed improving this world and some of the alliances that the church is now making with secular agencies that are population control agencies and bringing in experts who are in favor of abortion bishop serrando has invited jeffrey sachs who is one of the leading proponents of abortion and reproductive health and sex education for young people 20 times to lecture you know at official vatican events you know his chief funder is george soros and so like what are we doing you know uh it's it's giving the impression that what really matters is this world and and you might even say a socialist revolution they have let the elites rule you know that type of thing let's break down national borders and then you have uh cardinal who was just made a cardinal right after the amazon synod getting up and giving a speech it was headlined in the vatican newspaper saving the amazon is saving the world no it's not yeah it's not even saving this world but uh when it when it looks like the church is putting more emphasis on social progress rather than the eternal destiny of human beings it's it's something's gone wrong you know and and yes we're we need to hear again the cry of the apostles of saint peter on the day of pentecost save yourself from this wicked generation escape the wrath that's to come you know you know it's like the judgment of god is coming the chastisement of god is coming and we need to get people into the ark we need to get people into jesus and into the church see ralph that's been characteristic of your ministry for decades the centrality of jesus christ people turning away from sin so they can turn toward him and that's really what's missing right now i mean even the efforts to use the social teaching of the church which is wonderful but they're misusing it they're not presenting the authentic social teaching of the church we've got the compendium now very few people are quoting it but it's wonderfully done instead they're pushing another gospel of sorts and it's not even a gospel it's a counterfeit and jesus is very rarely mentioned and people encountering jesus christ is what is going to help them turn away from sin avoid hell and turn toward holiness and freedom and joy and happiness and you make that very very clear and that's what's missing more and more and more and there are very few bishops like bishop strickland who are preaching you know he often bishop you should share this you often talk about uh at your ordination as a bishop you were charged to guard the deposit of faith can you share about that well really ralph i think that obviously the deposit of faith is in trouble um in a sense i mean i think we always have to remember and we need to know the long history i i tell the staff here that we're in the marathon we're not in a in a sprint this is a long term certainly we don't want to have to live our entire the rest of our lives and certainly dr luke with a beautiful young family of children we want a better world for them but guarding the deposit of faith is one of the the promises that really has just resonated for me as a bishop every single bishop it's part of the ordination will you guard the deposit of faith and i didn't see a lot of that happening at the the recent meeting uh we're worried about a lot of things but the deposit of faith sort of gets left to the side and we you know i that's when i i really feel like i'm on a a mission to guard the deposit of faith and it's so necessary obviously from what you point out in your book yeah thanks be to god you know uh all i'm trying to do in my life and work is to faithfully pass on to the positive faith that's right not add to anything to it not take anything away from it i just want to be in the center of revelation i don't want to be to the left or right i want to be in the radical center where jesus is the lord and he's king and are we're so eager to hear every word he speaks and obey it i i think of saint paul's warning if an angel comes to you and preaches a different gospel don't believe him and at the end of the book of revelation it says woe to those who add anything to this revelation or takes anything away from it so i'm trying not to add anything or take anything away i'm just trying to pass on what jesus has to pass on because he commanded us to teach people everything that he taught us he's commanded us in the great commission to evangelize to make disciples but to teach them everything we can't leave out anything we have to include it all i think what's what's really great about the book uh is you're continuingly you continually return to the spiritual dimension of everything you know you tell us we can't get the perfect statistical analysis of the problems that we're facing or get the right sort of um consultant group to come in and and fix the different problems whether that's in in an institution like a seminary or with vocations um that it there is a spiritual dimension to that we don't see but that we need to see and we need the eyes to see the spiritual dimension of what's going on yeah um and when we when we do that what we what we see and you point this out is that this is this has been going on since the book of genesis that we are we are so easily deceived in our own minds about what the reality is uh and what is good and what is evil and that that just never goes away um the genesis of the of of this book you know you describe or of your ministry with crisis in truth that like you know a lot of those problems we thought were gone and now here they are back again i'm reminded of uh archbishop fulton sheen's got a book called old vices new labels um and you know that's that's what that's what we see these same problems are coming back because they're ultimately spiritual and if we don't put our spiritual resources into if we don't deploy those if we're not you know actively praying and studying the word of god and you know uh receiving the sacraments and especially you call for the the movement of the holy spirit in the lives of all catholics whether that's the cl the the faithful or people in the clergy and i really appreciate how you you point out that lay people are going to have a role in solving this crisis too like yourself right you know um it's not just we can't just point the finger at the bishops and we've got a good one here we don't have to point a finger at him but um we can't just point fingers at people we have to deeply invest ourselves in being part of the solution um and and that's just that's really refreshing because i i read a lot of stuff uh i have a phd and so i'm just constantly reading things that's what it does that to you and i i see a lot of pessimism but i rarely see people writing with with an angle of hope uh and a solution that and at this so in a lot of ways the second half of this book i thought was was tremendous because you point out ways forward um and and it's just really great so thank you for that you are a good reader thanks oh i tell you my favorite footnote in the in the book was when you quoted hulk hogan i don't know if you remember that footnote very well but and that one i circled it footnote 473 for those of you playing the at-home game what i started to say in in commenting on what dr lou says is and i this is probably a basic theme at my ordination as a bishop the hymn joyful joyful we adore you was the opening hymn and joy christ says i came that your joy may be full amen your your book is pointing us pointing out where we are losing that joy if we ignore the fullness of jesus christ and his whole teaching his whole body we can't just leave out especially i think we would all agree there's a real tendency to leave out the cross and if you leave out the cross then that is not the whole jesus and but i think we need to remember that he came that our joy may be full we get to that joy the joy of having a good life means you sacrifice you you share with others you don't just always get exactly what you want and that's you know one of the issues is the breakdown of family that's where we're supposed to learn all of this and without families people are literally lost in in the wilderness yeah well people sometimes ask me ralph are you discouraged you know because i i do know a lot of the junk going on you know i know a lot of people and uh i saw him i'm not discouraged at all i'm excited because the lord is about to do something he's purifying the church he's exposing the rock that's there it is for the purpose of purifying a remnant and also judging those who refuse to repent i mean i've been reading the prophets lately and it's it's absolutely shocking when god's people refuse to repent the the consequences you know the the punishment the the judgment you know and and i think we have a chance here we have a window here to lessen the chastisement to lessen the punishment but we have to repent not just as individuals but as a people we have to as a church kind of say forgive us lord for for not being faithful to what you asked us to do and we had some really encouraging things here in the archdiocese of detroit uh archbishop vigneron uh had a very solemn liturgy of repentance you know he's trying to focus the whole archdiocese on new evangelization but he knew that we had to confess our sins before god like repentance has to proceed renewal and so he had a very honest uh litany of of contrition and repentance he he actually repented for the false teaching that we've allowed to happen here in the archdiocese and not giving people the solid food of the gospel and a lot of other things as well the the thought that comes to me might know is when john the baptist saw people repenting he said bear the fruits of repenting so i'm hoping that this is not just a liturgical act that we forget but that we actually build a lifestyle repentance a lifestyle fidelity more and more into the archdiocese which a lot of people are working very hard to do i like that you brought in in chapter 13 you you spoke of jesus you know in his earthly ministry he was a priest and and he was a king in a certain sense but he's more those in eternity in his earthly ministry he functioned mostly as a prophet and that zeal was constitutive of his identity in such a profound way that we need to capture recapture that zeal for the holiness of god um for for the church for the faith um was that was just really fantastic insight um on on how how jesus operates and sort of he's obsessed with the salvation of people you know there are other things going on around him but what he comes back to again and again and again is you know what is the choice you're going to make are you going to follow me or or not um and i i really loved that i was really glad i was able to get all the way through the book before we did the interview because if i had i missed on that that's that's would have been tragic because it's it's really a a great point yeah the last chapter is called the inexhaustible riches of christ and uh it also talks about how the primary way in which people perceive jesus during his earthly ministry before his great priestly act of his sacrifice of the cross and his kingly manifestation when he returns in glory the primary way in which they identified him was a prophet when jesus asked the disciples who do people say i am jeremiah john the baptist elijah and then jesus actually self-identifies as a prophet when he talks about his native town not having enough faith to see miracles he says a prophet is with honor except in his own place so he he identifies himself as a prophet and when he was cleansing the temple zeal for his house consumes him you know type of thing like which which is the the motto of the carmelites and elijah and mount carmel and all that you know one of the chapters is called stop straddling the issue a lot of catholics are have one foot in the world and one foot in the church and it's like a lukewarm on dynamic catholicism and it's boring and dull and nobody's attracted to it so we got to get people to stop straddling the issue they got to make a choice and just like dr luke said almost every time that jesus is speaking to he's asking him for a response he's asking for a choice he's asking for faith he's asking for repentance and what i'm reminded of it's an insight that i've shared here in tyler um because all of us get tired of the darkness and tired of the crisis and we're looking for hope and the hope is there and what what really struck me um thinking especially about saint paul he didn't even meet the jesus who walked this earth he had a profound encounter with him absolutely but he didn't meet him as the other apostles did and and i think we need to listen to paul as a man who believed but did not see him i mean what like christ says blessed are those who believed but did not see and paul is one of those yes i mean i envy him for that that profound encounter that transformed his life but from what paul shares he didn't have other apparitions of christ he was fed by that encounter talk about zia if you read paul's writings we've quoted him a lot with him saying you do these things you're not going to heaven buddy and that's the way saint paul talks in first century clarity and i think we need to remember with all that's collapsing around us i mean as as that image of notre dame that beautiful cathedral is burning and we can feel like everything's collapsing we have jesus as much as paul and peter and everyone in the first century they had jesus they didn't have a new testament they didn't have these developed sacraments that we have they didn't have a magisterium guiding them they didn't have wonderful popes to inspire in saints i mean that's why they focused on the saints and the early martyrs because that was echoing and supporting them and and we have to acknowledge this occurs to me just as i'm speaking there were a lot of apostates in that time there were a lot of people who left the faith because it was tough but those who stayed had jesus they had jesus as they loved to say here in east texas as their personal lord and savior i've always told the catholics in our community we're in the minority here in east texas we need to absolutely say yes he's our personal lord and savior i receive him in the eucharist at mass he is in the word of god he is present in all the sacraments but i think we need to remember when we enter the darkness and when it feels like it's overcoming us we need to remember we have jesus just like the first century christians he is our strength deepen your your relationship with him he's the light of the world and he will guide us through this darkness amen amen amen appreciate it brother well you know like he said blessed are those who believe without seeing but how do people believe faith comes through hearing and hearing by the word of god not proclaimed with confidence with authority with passion who's going to believe that's why we need to have a we need to re release the holy spirit release unleash the gospel and really boldly proclaim jesus as lord and savior you know yeah and and so i hope that this book and i hope that people like you we could kind of get something going here you know you know get our get our uprising going you know with the word of god with the with jesus absolutely and face the tough things first if it's tough to to read that's what we need to read and remove the brackets the tough part of christ and let's hear romans 1. notice you never hear romans 1. we hear from you but how often do you hear it preached yeah could i tell people how to get the book oh absolutely absolutely please they need it okay i i really like the cover as you know i was like i'm actually a consultant for the bishops subcommittee on the catechism and i i go to meetings and things like that you know by zoom now but uh right after we chose this as the cover uh somebody who works the bishop's conference pretty high up said you know what is burning so i think a lot of people are feeling it a lot of people are almost kind of trying to head off panic and discouragement and despair but anyway the way you can get this is by going to renewalministries.net that's our website all one word renewalministries.net or you can get it at a catholic bookstore you get it on amazon.com it's it's widely available but uh consider giving a coffee to your priest or bishop or you're deacon yes yes and other things that renewal ministry ralph you've been putting out for years these little booklets that i think are so helpful to people i'm holding one called the the final confrontation i've given this one away to a lot of people 2015. uh but renewal ministries is a great resource and i know i've mentioned to you off camera that my wife lorraine loves it she's always giving me stuff from you or youtube and ralph i failed to mention that you are actually a professor of theology why don't you share at sacred heart seminary right and and particularly on the new evangelization tell us about that yeah i i um i teach courses on the theology of new evangelization where all these truth issues are coming up you know we're talking about what the gospel really is you know what the consequences of not accepting the gospel you know it's like a truth issue kind of course i'm just finishing up we have two more weeks after thanksgiving and i also teach a course called models of evangelization which goes through catholic history about different ways in which evangelization has happened mainly through the saints and i teach in other course called stages of spiritual growth i do this mainly for transitional deacons and priests i have all the transitional deacons each year in my class so that's really a great opportunity to kind of fortify them for their mission and then we have an stl program for priests in the new evangelization i teach some of the core courses in that we appreciate all of the world they come from five weeks in the summer to detroit and then they take an online course uh each semester this summer they couldn't come because of covet but we had this fantastic zoom class you know priest in africa a priest two priests in peru priests all over the place and we really connected with the lord with each other it's it it's very refreshing for the priests it really renews them too you know all right yep well thank you for joining us and for also sending us copies of the book so we could get a chance to read it um really a blessing to have you here uh and and hopefully we can have you here in tyler at some point would love to do it it'll be great thank you for having me thank you for all all three of you what you're doing and the great team that you are thank you god bless you rob bishop deacon and light person good good team yeah the church bishop we want to close us with a blessing sure the lord be with you and with your spirit heavenly father we thank you for the gift of your son the light of the world the light of our lives help us to joyfully share his truth the fullness of that truth that sets us free from the darkness that encroaches in our lives through sin and brokenness help those who listen to this podcast to turn to this book and turn to a spirit of renewal in your light and grace may the blessed virgin mary intercede for us constantly and we ask this in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen amen thank you thank you

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Published: Fri Dec 11 2020