5 Things You Get Wrong About Prayer | The Catholic Talk Show

hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the Catholic Talk Show today we're going to be talking about five things that people get wrong about prayer yeah we're going to look at some misconceptions some practices that inhibit people's prayer lives and we're going to give some Solutions on how to get over these five things that people get wrong about prayer prayer is the most necessary facet of the Christian Life and I'm really looking forward to developing a greater sense of prayerful intimacy with our God and with one another [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you [Music] all right today I'm really excited to introduce Our Guest Alex Jones from the app Hollow it's uh definitely the most popular Catholic Christian Prayer app in the app stores um and I couldn't think of a better person to have on the show than you Alex today welcome to the Catholic Talk Show brother so much for having me it's a pleasure Alex we truly admire the work that you have done really taking the diversity in the history of Christian prayer throughout the 2000 plus years of Christendom and really compiling it in a beautiful attractive way on your app and how fitting to talk about prayer in this show to have you not only as a sponsor of our show which we so appreciate but on top of that to have you and the experience that you've had compiling this to be able to give a very unique perspective on Christian prayer yeah no happy to happy to be here and lucky to be able to work with you guys the uh all the credit goes to the goes to the big man God did all the hard work but uh in the church over the last 2000 years but uh it's been fun to to be along for the ride so um so it was a pleasure beautiful brother so yeah today we're talking about some things we're talking about five things that people get wrong about prayer and you know it's it's not us saying well you're praying wrong it's some things that people misunderstand about about prayer that that's really inhibiting you from having a deeper relationship to God to the Blessed Trinity through prayer um so we're going to talk about some of those things now but before we do it I just want to make sure everyone knows that if you want to be able to support us you can go to patreon.com forward slash Catholic Talk Show we have a lot of awesome tears you know we're not asking for your rent money just your pocket change anything that you've got that you can help us continue to make the show we appreciate again that's Catholic Talk Show forward forward slash patreon or patreon.com Catholic Talk show you can go to either so let's talk about you know prayer lives right um Ryan you were talking so to me yesterday about something that you've read recently that I think that was really awesome that is a perfect way to start talking in an episode about prayer yeah yeah I think um I think before we before we talk about prayer it's good to contextualize where it is in the life of us as children of God um us as having free will being sinful um and and loving God too at the same time so you know um the the very first paragraph in the catechism of the Catholic Church gives us a very good fundamental jumping off point I just wanted to read that to everybody because I feel like from a contextual standpoint it's something that um will guide this discussion in a very foundational way so I'll go ahead and start with that um this is called uh this is obviously the catechism it's the very first paragraph called the life of man to know and love God God infinitely perfect and blessed in himself in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life to share in his own blessed life for this reason at every time in every place God draws close to man he calls man to seek him to know him to love him with all his strength he calls together all men scattered and divided by sin into the unity of the of his family the church to accomplish this when the fullness of time had come God sent his son as Redeemer and savior in his son and through him he invites men to become in the Holy Spirit his adopted children and thus Heirs of his blessed life and I just want to say how beautiful this is obviously but we're sharing in this blessed life of God right and he calls us scattered and divided by sin into Unity right like sin scatters us and and through that um we still shared his blessed life the mercy of God helps us to share in this blessed life and obviously in the Holy Spirit we become Heirs of this blessed life right so um I just think that's a really good uh starting point for this conversation in context and contextualizing prayer in regards to it yeah perfect one word that stands out among the many words that you just shared from that catechetical reference Ryan is what you what you emphasized sharing you know and isn't it true that all of our relationships from the time that we were children in kindergarten learning that our relationships must begin with sharing sharing is caring and and from that moment on from our earliest developmental concepts of entering into relationship with another it takes an act of vulnerability and and humility to open up your heart to another person and to share in their life life or to share deeply of your own is something that that can be scary and prayer can be scary at certain times but to realize that at the fundamental basis of what the church teaches and the reality of prayer that ultimately it's an entering into an intimacy and a communion of persons with God and that in and of itself I mean my goodness to realize that the battle is with sin and selfishness vulnerability and not being open but then once that starts to breach open that you enter into a communion with God which is just so profoundly beautiful so I'm excited about really developing what you've laid out delicross as the show continues and and I can't think of a better way to approach this than to look at the negative things about prayer that we're going to discuss to help free uh the minds and the hearts of the people listening to maybe approach prayer in a more fruitful and more vulnerable like you said way mm-hmm so the first one that I wanted to talk about today and I think this is maybe the one that most people struggle with is that when prayer becomes difficult they quit they stop praying you know they they experience spiritual dryness and um they feel lost and then they stop praying um which is counterintuitive because that's the time when you should pray the most but it gets really hard I've experienced that I'm sure everyone listening has that you know when life gets difficult you're praying more and then you're not really feeling it or you're too busy in life and you just quit praying um that's that's really a tragedy because that's when you you need it the most right or or you or you need prayer a lot and you pray and then when things are going well you don't and so you miss that communion with God on the other side of that coin that's a good point that that's a very very good point and what saint faustina teaches about prayer through desolation or through suffering is that that is precisely where God is most actively in communion with the soul and it's very very ordinary you know to the human person that when we are suffering we recede when we are suffering we feel isolated but it's precisely that in showing God's mercy to humanity that he descends so deeply to the human heart that he desires to enter into the most desolate place and does isn't that contextualized in Jesus's mission in the desert and where he overcomes The Temptations of the devil why is he doing that he's doing that for the sake of humanity at its deep deepest most desolate dark isolated place and you know ultimately I find that the greatest Catalyst to intimacy is through suffering with Christ because Christ is here with us to suffer with us in God's compassion so I I love that aspect but delicross you bring up one of the most important points is that in prosperity we forget God and and then we just kind of occupy our own in our own little world and that I think is the most treacherous thing to the spiritual life absolutely yeah I think we get we get this a decent bit from folks who are are trying to use the app where uh they feel in Desolation or it gets difficult when they're trying to build up a habit of prayer and by far the hardest part of prayer is just spending time and just giving the time every day consistently to God and God does the rest now it's important to have the right guidance and the right tools and everything which is you know a lot of the app that we'll talk about but the hardest part is just giving him the time and I think it's the exciting part for me when people share that is the stories when you read any great Mystic or any great contemplative Saint in in the church history they all go through the same thing St John of the Cross Dark Knight of the Soul Saint Teresa of Avila she starts with um you know these deep consolations these these beautiful experiences of God and then as she progresses deeper in her spiritual life she gets more and more desolate and further away from God and she finds more value from that she enjoys the suffering because what to her I mean the bodily suffering or the suffering the material world is nothing compared to feeling away from God but in every ounce of suffering that she experiences on Earth she gets that much more glory and in heaven and so she she asks for that suffering actually towards the end of her life and you have Saint Mother Teresa who um you know experienced dryness uh as we saw from her journals for 50 years of her life where she didn't know if she struggled with God being there God being present God existing it was like this deep dark suffering and through it she loved and uh all of these Saints these beautiful Mystic uh examples are uh just preaching to your point Father which is as things get hard that's actually God giving you the chance to grow closer to him and uh to to offer that up to God and to continue to pray even though you're not getting the same consolations that you know Saint Teresa got at the beginning where she's levitating or whatever so um you know is an exciting thing especially when you look at the Saints life you know Alex she brought something up there that I think is a really important Insight is that everyone's going to experience spiritual dryness or other people are going to experience like Ryan said times when life is so good what do I pray for I got everything I need you feel like but that creating that habit of prayer creating that time and that space that dedicated moments to where you enter in to conversation with the Trinity um that's incredibly important and that's one of the things that I love about Hollow is that it makes that really accessible it's a tool that it's like a training tool it allows you to have these um moments where you know that I'm dedicating it to it it gives you some structure to it so when you're like I don't know what to pray today I don't really know you know I'm not really feeling it this way or that way it gives you some structure and some guidance to help you pray when maybe it's a little bit you know beyond where you're at at the moment yeah yeah and it's secretly I think um sorry Alex uh what we're talking about here is is also in the catechism um facing difficulties in prayer it's it's uh it's called The Battle of prayer right so I think what we're talking about is the battle and there's two different states of the Soul right one of abundance either materially or even spiritually and one of desolation but the second article is called humble vigilance of the heart humble vigilance of the heart and the humility of being that clay always in the hands of God right and and experiencing the the distraction um you know facing Temptations in prayer again going back to your app and and I've used this uh I even used uh used it with my daughter you know driving to school to drop off my boys where you know here we are doing lectio Divina in the card you know obviously it's not the best place to do it but it is about making time and the biggest what you said about making time and sticking to that time and and developing that interior life with God even in the abundance that you have God wants to use that abundance to possibly give to somebody else right so we always have to have that structure of time and the beauty about your app is you literally just turn it on right I mean it's that's what I love about it it's like I don't have to like think about all these different ways to prayer memorizing or anything it's just you just turn it on and you just go right and I think that's what's so beautiful about it and it's and having that Simplicity of prayer is something that's of value to this material life yeah I think one of the hard Parts about prayer is you you uh depending on where you are in your own Journey you can talk to anybody who is in vastly a vastly different place and so you talk to somebody you have a good friend of mine who does a holy hour or two every day and is just a deep contemplative um life and there's other people who struggle to find a minute to three minutes of prayer and the beauty about the relationship with God is you just have to give him a little bit start as simple as humanly possible or if you're already at an hour of in in prayer pushing yourself to spend uh you know more time and and uh you know take action out of that prayer and all that stuff there's always ways that we can grow in our relationship with God but it's important just to take the smallest simplest easiest step get started and then to stick to it and there is you know it's it's a challenge so you do have to challenge yourself and you have to set goals and you have to you know pick a set number of days and try to commit to it so it's just like any other habit that you try to build but it is uh you know important not to think that hey I gotta do a rosary and a Divine Mercy Chaplet every day okay or I gotta you know meditate on The Daily gospel every day it's just well let's just say Jesus I trust in you when you wake up in the morning how about that and uh you know starting with just a minute we had things on the app called minute meditation so literally just you know 30 60 seconds of of meditating on something um but can can be an enormously uh powerful we there's a person I spoke to a few weeks ago who has the longest streak on the app we have little streaks to try to help people maintain habits we've only been around for two years or so and this person has a 450 day streak so we probably found out about it a few months into the app existing and then it's used it every day since and I I was talking to him um and uh you know was asking hey how do you stick to this and he said the same thing that and and I forget the saint that quoted it but it's uh you know when when I feel like I don't have time for a Rosary in the day that's when I need to pray two rosaries and he was like you know I spend my morning in prayer and uh I've just noticed over the course of the last five years when I don't my day goes worse and so I just need to every day and I just stick to it pick a time and you know meditate on The Daily gospel or the rosary from the app and uh use that as a way to stay consistent through it so it's um really just starting small and trying to build up and challenge yourself to stick to praying every day that that is fabulous Mother Teresa you know and and that and that's it just totally touched my heart but you know if you're busy you need to pray more yeah that's right and it's just what an incredible uh recommendation to Alex and and what you're seeing from a user interface like how are the users using this uh this app and then realizing that it's building blocks you know it's building blocks of the spiritual life and you have to begin somewhere so our listeners our viewers out there you may be in that same situation where you know I I really don't pray that often maybe it's a simple form of prayer well hallow is a perfect app for you and hallow is is one of our sponsors of the show and we have a wonderful opportunity for you because hallow is giving you 30 days free trial of use of this app right now so go to hallow.com forward slash Catholic Talk Show and there you'll see how to access this app for 30 days for free just to try to build on your spiritual life and momentum if you don't have any prayer life if you have the beginnings of prayer life or if you're at that what Alex said that two hours of contemplative prayer which is like the heights of Silent contemplative intimacy there's stuff on this app for you so check that out today again hallow.com forward slash Catholic Talk Show and it's 30 days free trial now I have to I have to share Alex you know listening it reminds me of when the disciples and the followers of Jesus are walking with him day in and day out in his public Ministry and then they turn to him at a certain point it's like teach us how to pray teach us how to pray and I always I find that even in my own life you know I've been a priest now for eight years I've been following the Lord closely as best as I possibly can in my own limitations my sinfulness for the past 20 years and on a daily on a daily basis but I still find myself benefiting from spiritual Giants spiritual directors Retreats conferences and different brothers and sisters that are just living out their own prayer life that call me to a greater effort of of prayerful intimacy and I just I find that the tradition of Prayer in the Catholic church in respect to that gives you that sense of structure from orazio to meditation to contemplazio oraccio being like teach us how to pray the Our father right it's like a devotional verbal prayer Our Father Hail Mary the Nicene Creed uh the memorare and the list goes on with all of these kind of verbal memorized prayers which are which are in the app as well then that moves into like meditation metatazzio that we can actually meditate on the lives of the Saints we could meditate on the scriptures meditate on the Psalms and how that's lived out in the life of the Saints meditation begins to form like within our own selves an intellectual spiritual exercise to contemplate how is God interacting with humanity and how is it being shown in the life of people and then contemplazio which is the highest form of of prayerful intimacy with God which is the holy spirit working within us within our own limitations that Saint Paul expresses that the Holy Spirit comes within us in in forms of groaning because we cannot pray properly you know to realize that in the tradition of the church we have over 2 000 plus years of people sharing these spiritual Masters if you will these Saints who have really been influenced by the power of the Holy Spirit as a fruit of their meditation to really really share with us what is prayer and what is in prayer and and I think that that's so important for us to continue to discern and learn all throughout our life I want to share something else with you guys I think it's another Nuance to what we're talking about which is distraction um this is in the humble vigilance of the heart uh but I think it's very important because distraction also lends us to wisdom it also lends us to self-knowledge it also lends us to where God wants to move us away from and into so it says the habitual difficulty in prayer is distraction it can affect words and their meaning in vocal prayer it can concern more profoundly him to whom we are praying uh to set about hunting down distractions would be to fall into their trap when all that is necessary is to turn back to our heart for a distraction reveals to us what we are attached to and this humble awareness before the Lord should awaken our preferential love for him and lead us resolutely to offer him our heart to be purified like that's just that's awesome yeah just identifying that a distraction is actually the type of thing that we need to be aware of in prayer and that even a distraction in prayer can be a blessing so if you're distracted and you're thinking about this well that's where you're where your heart and mind goes and that's the things that maybe you should be praying about so that's that's really that's that's some uh some pretty cool things there and I think one of the one of the coolest and uh also most difficult pieces of of Catholic contemplative prayer and meditative prayer is uh distraction and there's two pieces to it there's you know the one is uh uh to to chase your distractions or your thoughts and your to-do's of the day while you're trying to pray is obviously not where God is trying to to lead you and not spending time with God is just sitting and worrying about whatever you were worried about before um or kneeling or however you're praying and and you we do have I think one of the the really awesome pieces that you build up as you start to spend a lot of time in prayer is you do have this ability to say hey there's a thought and I'm just you know I'm gonna return back to my focus there's another thought about another thing I have to do today I'm sure God will remind me later I'm just going to return back to my focus Jesus I trust in your whatever you know gospel you're meditating on and on the other hand though there's this fun discernment you have to do which is also very hard because sometimes there are distractions and sometimes they're God pulling you to think about something and so how can I be a better person or how can I better serve my wife or um be a better father or whatever it is and and to really dive into that and say hey I think there's fruit here that I do need to meditate on and so this isn't a distraction this is where God is leading me to and so that it's kind of this you have to build the skill to focus but then also trust that God is leading you where he wants you to go and so that discernment which is really an ignatian kind of uh discernment there is is is really key to a lot of the contemplative prayer techniques that we have on the app awesome so I think all that conversation kind of encompasses that first point is that people quit when prayer gets difficult and there's a lot in there now we promised everyone five so let's get through these other four but I think that one was the most important because that's the one that is the most common and and the biggest impediment to developing a prayer life is not praying because it's hard and I think we touched really on elements of all the remaining points in that conversation um another one of them is that prayer often can become very one-sided um in the tradition of the church there's four I guess categories of prayer not what father Rich mentioned earlier but four types of prayer or four reasons for prayer and that's adoration Contrition Thanksgiving and petition right and too often for a lot of people prayer becomes always asking God well I need this this is bothering me this is hurting me um and it becomes imbalanced it becomes you never say God thank you giving Thanksgiving thank you for all the things that have thank you for the challenges of my day thank you for my struggles thank you for giving me opportunities to grow you're never giving praise saying God you are great and and you know um in in awe right that Adoration of the godhead and then there's also you know prayers of Contrition there's never it's very rare I guess when you're in need to say you know in a heartfelt prayer God I I'm sorry for my feelings you've given me every tool that I need and I'm failing and and I'm sorry like so again prayer has to have all of those elements Contrition Thanksgiving um adoration but also petition it's important but having a balance between that gives a more healthy prayer life instead of always saying God I need but sometimes returning some other types of Prayer yeah and if I might so it's a it's a beautiful structure of prayer that you outline outlines like the acts acts um the um with supplication petition being the S but the um uh the one piece that and I I think that's absolutely right which is the the standard the base definition of of prayer uh that that people think of is hey I need help with stuff I need to pray for something because I need it uh which is you know I actually have a three-month-old child and she hasn't learned to talk yet or else she'd be Einstein but um the uh you know when she does most of her conversation will be hey I need this I need this I need this but as you know my relationship with my parents is not I need this I need this I need this uh although they to help me a ton but is mostly uh as we talked about the evolution of prayer which is hey I'm super grateful for this um or I wanted to apologize for this thing or in the highest form is just hey let's just spend time together let's just share uh which brings us back to what we've been been talking about this whole time and I think the thing that I would add to I struggled a lot with and my story is a much longer one I was agnostic atheist and and found God through prayer but I struggled a lot with kind of the base the the the core even just the ax model which is hey I'm sorry for Stuff uh thank you for stuff and help me with stuff because it is really helpful to grow in the virtues but I I think and it's baked in there in most of these models but I think the piece that it misses is uh the sharing and the listening and the the person who should be uh changing When you pray is you not the other one not God uh you should be the one praying for your own heart to change and there was this story when I was struggling with my faith and learning how to pray and all this stuff that I talked to a priest and he was like yeah you should try prayer and I was like look I've tried prayer I've said hey thanks for stop sorry for Stuff help me with stuff every day for like a year and I just I feel like I'm journaling in my own head and the priest said well let me take a second are you married and I say yes of course he said how healthy would your marriage be if every day you came home and said hey honey I'm thankful for these things I'm sorry for these things help me with these things um good night and I was like uh it would be very unhealthy 80 of my conversation with my wife is how was your day tell me about it what do you need from me and he was like yeah now imagine instead of talking to your wife you were talking to the the person who created the universe wouldn't you really want to hear what they had to say as opposed to you saying all the stuff that you want to say now it's important for you to share because that's you know it's it's it it actually impacts your own heart but God already knows what you want the the act of prayer is you growing closer to him him pulling you closer to him and just spending time with him and learning to listen for what he wants out of your life and that listening piece I think is the piece that most people and it's you see it in this giant shift towards secular meditation and the mindfulness meditation and stuff because it is kind of this listening aspect but we have the beauty in in Catholic contemplative prayer of list know who we're listening to and have a ton of tools scripture and the tradition of the Saints to use to help us listen and I think that listening piece is a piece that a lot of people Miss which is the the really hard part about prayer but also the really fruitful part I think and that's what I love about your app is that you actually intentionally include those Dynamics and the meditations that you have right so you know if one did not have that um you know like kind of like you you know the priest told you right but the guidance of the meditations in your app is like the the person guiding you is actually asking you to to be present you know to soak in the presence of God and then to speak to him in Thanksgiving I mean I I think that's just a that's a wonderful Story by the way but but it's also something that's also included in the app that I really love too as well yeah and the daily gospel is exactly that which like we have a daily gospel meditation where you meditate on an excerpt from the daily gospel every day and it's you know it's we save the day it's based off of the structure Alexia Divina Benedict and prayer technique but it's you you read the daily gospel which is a super important part but that's only about a minute of a 10 minute meditation so you you read the the excerpt but then you try to focus on okay what stood out to you how is the holy spirit speaking to you through these words today pick a word or whatever and meditate on it let it sink in and then hey share with God what you think he's trying to say to you and now just listen or just sit in silence and just share and and to go back to the share word which I love is the you know Saint Teresa's definition of contemplative prayer which is also in the catechism is just contemplative prayer is in my opinion nothing else than a close sharing between friends being alone frequently with the one who loves us and it's just like a it's just a relationship it's not like a bank where you go and you try to get money out of it it's just like hey we're just sitting and staring at each other and enjoying it because you're God and I would love to adore you to go back to the Adoration Point um but kind of having that conversation and that you know listening aspect of it is is what has changed my life probably the most dramatically and and that's what we so appreciate Alice thank you so much for sharing your testimony because your testimony itself and everything that you've described along with what delicross was just sharing really takes that number two that we were talking about that it's one-sided uh and really throws it out the window it's not not a one-sided thing Christian prayer is not one-sided it opens one up to this exchange of love this this exchange of ideas this exchange of really the the liberating power of Truth and God's love for us and to be able to hear your story and Alex I'm very curious to to certainly hear more about your story as we continue this relationship with you uh far into the future in the years ahead but to move from a form of agnosticism we're you know struggling with a belief that is their regard that through prayer you have come to encounter God God speaking to your heart and drawing you to the theological virtues of faith hope and love what what a beautiful testimony brother thank you for sharing yeah absolutely and so not my not my story it's God's but I'm happy to happy to repeat it so another thing and I think we just touched on that in there as well is that you know a lot of people think prayers need to be memorized and that prayer is you know knowing your Potter Knows during your Ave Maria and you know having all these prayers memorized and reading from a book or whatever that prayer is kind of a formulaic thing or almost some people treat it as a magic spell they start to get into um Superstition with sing a certain round of prayers and stuff where they're losing the the heart of it now these prayers are you know like the Our Father pattern oester it's we should all know that because our Lord taught us that but prayer doesn't have to be a memorized scripted thing all the time now that's not to say that there's some fundamental prayers that every Christian should know but not having them all memorized is not a reason to really um should to I guess abandon a prayer life or not know how to pray because you don't have certain prayers memorized or a certain um regiment and how you pray yeah the uh the best example for this for us that we've seen is the rosary which you know I think there's actually uh there's actually two sides to this on the one side uh you're absolutely right which is you know the prayer is about listening and it is about a relationship and so you know I don't memorize anything to build a relationship with my wife uh I just do it every day by talking to her and listening at the same time we have this beautiful Rich tradition of 2000 years of different ways to it's it's intimidating to try to talk to an invisible God and uh to try to start a conversation with them and so we have this beautiful tradition of these beautiful memorized prayers and these beautiful structured prayers to start that conversation so it's kind of this fun balance but the rosary is one that a lot of people actually are very intimidated by or it's really hard I mean it's you know if you're driving to work and you have a bunch of beads it's hard to keep counter you got to keep your kids or you're trying to do the dishes or whatever it is and you've got a busy life and and you're doing the service that God asked you to and maybe you don't have 25 30 minutes to sit down and go through the bees the what we've seen in the app and the big point of the app is to be a tool of Technology without technology so it's uh you know you click it you pick a session hopefully it's as easy and seamless as possible to pick one pick a length 5 10 15 20 minutes and then you click play plug in your headphones and close your eyes and put the phone across the room or put it in your car or whatever but it's you know you're focused just like we are on our headphones right now but not looking at a screen just looking at the outside world or doing the work that you have to do but the rosary is something that it actually makes it and in my own life has made it so much easier for me to pray the rosary I don't have to remember all the Mysteries even though I try to I try to memorize them all but I don't have to remember where I am I don't have to count to ten I just get to really focus on the the prayer itself and then also really which is a really hard part of the Rosary which is meditating on the Mysteries which is the the point of the Rosary and the Hail Mary centers you and focuses you but the the point of it is to meditate on the Mysteries and it's really hard to do especially when you're just starting we had a there's a story just a few weeks ago somebody sent us um that their brother was uh dying from uh cancer and had about a week or two to live and had always been really intimidated by the rosary and so had never prayed it and she introduced the app to them and uh he opened it and just clicked play in 20 minutes and you do a rosary and then he did that every day for the last seven days of his life and was able to die uh in a in a state of deep prayer and and faith and I think that's like the example of which by the way is something we never would have imagined being able to do with such a simple tool so it's just an example of how God has been able to work such incredible work through this but is the example of you're so intimidated by this thing that it it turns you off from trying it and so just trying to break it down to as simple as possible and just get started then eventually you know I hopefully have memorized most of the Mysteries by now but eventually you work on the memorization and it becomes part of your heart uh so it's not about you know quoting scripture and this chapter in this verse but that you know when you face a difficulty what words from scripture speak speak to you or what mysteries from the rosary speak to you so that's I think the the piece that we try to work on that's that's a perfect way to frame it it's not that memorized prayers are not amazingly and almost essential to the Catholic life but it's not a reason to not get started you know you don't have to memorize the whole driver's manual for a car before you get into it and start driving so you know pick some ones you know in the rosary and and using a guided Rosary uh meditation app like Hollow is a perfect way to get started if you don't have them already memorized if you weren't brought up like this if you haven't had to remember your you know your essential prayer since third grade religion class right that's a good way to start praying even if you don't have these things committed or internalized just yet I think internalized is a great word like the point when we uh the the disciples asked Jesus how to pray he did give us the Our father and so he gave us a prayer that we all hopefully uh can memorize um but the point was not that we memorize it the point was not that we know these words and can repeat these words in this order the point was the meaning of the words themselves which is so deeply beautiful and if you focus which I did a lot which is you know hey I'm going to say the Our Father every day when I wake up our father Martin I have an hour be thy name and I just don't even think about the words but each word in that and we have a challenge on the app that dives into each word of the Our father but each word of it is life-changing like our father why does he say our father instead of my father I never use that phrase ever in my life when I say hey our dad is really mean no it's just my dad why is it our father though uh who aren't in heaven what is heaven why does that go second uh Hallowed be thy name why is his name so important what does it mean to Halo is he trying to make our lives holy and and so there's so much Beauty and depth to the simple memorized prayers that the importance is in the depth of them not in the memorization and what happens is as you focus on the depth and meditate on them every day you do memorize them it's a byproduct but it's not the point and it might you know you might look less embarrassed when other people pray it but that's not what God wants he wants you to meditate on the meaning that he's trying to convey not you know memorize words so to look at the structure of the catechism and and what we're talking about right now in respect to the fourth part of the catechism which is on you know Christian prayer and living living the mystery essentially what's preceded by that is is celebrating the mystery and what is what is the mystery it's it's the mystery of God revealing himself to humanity and celebrating that mystery is the seven sacraments of the church and the Eucharist being the source and Summit of our faith and to realize that in the context of the Rosary that we're talking about the full life and the Mystery of the from the Incarnation all the way up to you know the the coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven and Earth all within that sense of of the mystery what it helps us with is locking into the mystery and driving away all other distractions and giving us a center point so that we can really focus in as a communion of people on the central mystery so that what can be accomplished is intimate intimacy with God and intimacy with one another when you think about you know being able to celebrate Eucharist with one another that it's it's more than just a personal relationship with God that God in his action and this is something that Alex continues to express it's like it's not my story this is what this is what God is doing in my possibly transformed my life it's it's what God is doing in our lives in the midst of the community that's just so fascinating to reflect on and to think about and to open ourselves up more deeply and profoundly to when we when we have practices that Alex is providing through this app when we practice praying the rosary or even devotional prayers of memory we're essentially just pushing away all distraction and being able to lock into the mystery itself and really begin to draw from it in respect to what God is doing within us emptying ourselves out so that we can become more consumed in God's holy presence and and that is is just such an inspiring thing that God desires to do this but what we need to do is to culture out time and to carve out time for this to happen now the fourth one kind of again flows from this and Ryan De La Crosse he's one of the most prayerful guys I've ever met right he really is but it's a kind of it's a very effortless easy way that he does it because it's a very familiar relationship that he has right it's really inspiring to see and one of the things that people think is that prayer has to be perfect and it has to be well let this begin but if we do not say Potter nosta quies and chalice it doesn't really count and like we have to you're you know prayer has to be this perfect thing that is so uh scripted and if you're saying it wrong you're going to jinx the whole thing and not get what you asked for or you know prayer doesn't have to be perfect and I think you know Ryan's relationship with prayer has always been very trusting open I don't want to say informal but familiar is a better way and I I think you know Ryan's prayer life the one what I've seen has been very inspiring on that but prayer is not a call to be perfect prayer is a call to bring your Brokenness your who you are to God to have those those elements of conversation with him this is a good plug we actually get together and pray uh every Wednesday at 11 30 Eastern um our patrons uh those who support our our show financially we pray for all of our viewers but we also take a look at the gospel and and and pray together um I'll say this in the Seminary I learned this because in the Seminary I was very angry at something that was going on in my life um with or without justification but um as I was expressing this anger to my spiritual director he is well have you have you taken this up with God and I'm like what do you mean like you know like do you want me to just go in there and just start yelling at him like this is wrong like this is like well yeah I mean like have you have you brought this to god father Mike Moore and uh you know I mean that was the first time that somebody told me like I can talk to God like you know I mean obviously it's good to listen to we've been talking about that the different types of Prayer but in that I learned that it's okay for me to share who I am and what I've got whatever however little it is with our Lord whether I'm angry happy sad whatever um and and the other time I was in uh uh Scott Hans uh house with a friend and we we were meeting about something and he says hey let's let's pray and you know I'm used to prayer like you know hey God you know kind of like how we started you know before the show started and like we went around the room for like 15 minutes like just talking to God and I was like wow this is beautiful and we I felt so soaked into the relationship that I have with God in a more deeper way kind of like how Alex was saying is like just being with his parents you know and and in that being with your parents and sharing with your parents it might be an hour or two or even all afternoon you know not saying that you have to to pray all afternoon but I think that's one of the things that I picked up from that is like I could just sit with God and just be with him and talk to him for as long as I want right like it's it's again a practice but um I think that's where you know where I think God showed me that that you know I can be more intimate intimate with him and just share whatever it is that I got you know a big big shout out to father Mike Moore Monsignor Michael Moore from uh the the dice cases of Saint Petersburg in Tampa and he was my spiritual director as well in the Seminary and and what what a gift you know and one of the structures of prayer that delicrosse was just sharing because we've we've heard acts we've heard uh you know the the contemplative of orazio meditation our viewers are listeners you're you're getting like inundated with a lot of different concepts of prayer but we want to give you one more and it's related to what delicrosse was just saying praying like a pirate are right a-r-r-r so acknowledge right you acknowledge the sense okay this is my disposition that I'm angry like delicrosse was saying you know and then you relate it in prayer you know expressing in the in the in the context of that anger like God this is why I'm angry and you're expressing that relate it then you start to receive from God sitting in silence receive and then respond what's the response after this this structure so you know acknowledge relate receive respond there's so many acronyms there's so many different structures of prayers there's so many different religious communities out there we talked about Benedictine prayer we talked about ignatian spirituality we talked about a lot of different things in this show and it is so exciting Alex to be able to have something that touches on this diversity and it continues to grow you continue to build out this app uh what are some of the other Dynamics present in your app that that you need to share with people because I mean really it's it is the number one catholic christian Prayer app on the market today I appreciate that the um uh I mean that the diversity piece that you hit on and you hit on it before too is something that we learned really early on actually the first when we first built the app a couple years ago we just had nine sessions on the app three that were kind of like contemplative Carmelite prayer three that were ignatian examined which is like reflecting on your day and three that were alexio Divino which is meditating on scripture and our idea uh and and my idea ignorantly was hey we're gonna launch these nine we're gonna test them with you know like a hundred of our friends and family see which of the three are the most popular and then we'll build an app that's alexio Divina app or an ignatian examin app or uh Carmelite meditation app and so we we launched it sent it to everybody and asked talked to everybody and everyone answered hey I loved these three sessions they changed my life it was amazing the other six were a wasted time uh the issue was that it was split evenly a third a third a third across which one they thought was phenomenal and which other uh six they thought were terrible and some love too or and and so we realized from the very beginning that that the diversity within the church is really a tool because we all have so much so many different needs within our own spiritual lives and I think it it hits on the the part that is uh you know how do you how do you pray unceasingly how do you pray always that is a very I I still am struggling with that I don't I don't uh it's a it's a very difficult thing to bring into your whole life but um uh and and it can seem intimidating if it's like hey I can't say a rosary all day I have work I have kids I have a lot of stuff to do uh and I think the opportunity in these different types of prayer is what gets us really excited and it hits on the point that it doesn't have to be perfect it can be just starting and just giving it a try or while you're working doing some Gregorian listening to some Gregorian chant which we just added to the app which is super popular or meditating on scripture going through the Bible uh which uh is Father Mike's Bible in a year just added to the app is super popular meditating you are no father Mike father Mike is the number one podcast we do not you guys and you guys remind me of that all the time I know we we hitched our wagon to the wrong star I'll just say that but yeah I mean and there's minute meditations like Jesus I trust in you Temptation that there's the nighttime stuff which I think is actually a really cool unique way a lot of people wake up in the middle of the night or are stressed and can't fall asleep or have difficulty just lying awake thinking about all their worries and they turn on Netflix or the radio or try to fall asleep just to some noise to distract them but what better way to uh fall asleep than with the with scripture or what better way to let go of your worries than reflecting on your day and giving them to God and so it's like how can you bring God into every moment of your life in in every different way and so I think that's something that we've gotten really excited about which I think we're just getting started because uh the good news is we have 2 000 years of uh stuff to pull from we don't invent anything new and we've barely scratched the surface on you know maybe uh maybe that's my that's that's like one of my very favorite things about Hollow is that it is so deeply traditional I mean it is such a modern thing it's an app it uses all these kind of you know algorithmic you know responses and it uses really great technology but at the heart of it it is deeply traditional I mean you have Gregorian chants you have you know the rosary you have examines you have you know things that um people a thousand years ago in a stone dripping cold Hut in England or in Italy or whatever a thousand years ago in a monastery the same things that we're doing now just in a different form it's it's really cool how you use technology to tie so deeply into the modern mind but then also marry it with tradition so that's like I I really appreciate that about that and like you said adding in the Gregorian chant uh all original recordings too I mean that's a really that's a really cool feature just to use that kind of um experience to get you into that mode for prayer I think the I mean we haven't really talked about the uh downsides of prayer but um to us we we spoke to a lot of uh spiritual directors and you are especially as Ryan you were talking about how vulnerable you should be in prayer I mean the point is to open up your heart to God and so the yelling at him or being incredibly vulnerable or just sitting and trying to listen to God the tough part about the Christian faith which is different than you know secular spirituality and and mindfulness and Eastern spirituality that the unique part about the Christian faith is there's another Force at work if you just sit there silently uh God can talk to you but also Satan and so it's uh the the tough part about Christian prayer is making sure that you do it in a way that's structured so that you're talking to God and you can discern God's Will and not uh be led astray by um by evil and I think that's a that's a really tough part especially in and I was really into secular meditation for a while but when you don't have that discernment or you don't have that struggle of well you've got to pick what's you've got to find what's good good and follow that and follow the fruits of prayer which is the most important part prayer doesn't matter at all if it doesn't if it doesn't result in fruits and love and uh following that is a really important part so for us we take it incredibly seriously too hey it's a lot easier work for us because Saint Teresa of Avila is a lot deeper in the spiritual life than I was so taking from what she says uh in terms of prayer technique is a lot easier but um it's also really important for us to to leverage the guidance of the church and so everything we we focus really uh uh a lot on making sure every piece of the content in the app is is 100 authentically Catholic in line with church teaching and guidance so that we're leading people in the right direction and not in the wrong direction or letting people be led in the wrong direction which is you know a really important part for us from a Content perspective yeah yeah I think what I've what I'm hearing some of you guys say before you you started talking about that Alex was I think it's really important if you're struggling with prayer to think about what what is your expectation of the outcome of your prayer right like you know it kind of goes back to your story too Alex it's like what is your expectation here is the expectation an outcome to go to sleep right is it is it is the outcome to you know get something and I think what what you have to be is like we said vulnerable right the the outcome is is kind of obviously in to to be in communion with God but but the expectations need to be that could be a distraction to your prayer right you know Ryan you touched on the last of the points which is so many people think that if they don't get what they asked for what they prayed for that God isn't listening or that they did something wrong like you know I really prayed for this and it didn't happen so God doesn't care he's not listening or somehow I did some imperfect prayer that didn't crack the code or something and it's not like that you know so often when we pray we we ask for something and it doesn't happen or something else happens but we have to learn to trust that everything that is given to us even our struggles are given to us by God to bring us closer to him um even our struggles even our Temptations you know lead us not into temptation because Temptations are a thing that can give us purification you know from our you know concupiscence so God is listening he just might not be giving you what you think you need but he's still giving you what you need you know and that's an important thing to remember because that's one of those things that can go back all the way to the beginning because that can lead to spiritual dryness because you keep on asking for what you think you want or what you think you need but don't get it then your spiritual dryness kicks in and it takes us all the way back to the beginning of this conversation yeah and I think the uh uh you guys said the one thing that I had written down for this is that prayer is not about getting things it's about finding uh something and the thing that you find is peace in in Christ and trust in him and there there is something you do get that actually so that that is something that is beautiful now you'll go through the dryness and all that jazz but through that can learn how to how to trust in God and so I I think that you know when you when you change prayer to be hey this is about transforming my own heart yes I'm going to ask for stuff but the the core is about transforming me and trying to find peace in you and then the whole Paradigm shifts to how can I be better not you know what what can you do for me that that all being said I think you run the risk of like the today world of well prayer doesn't really work and it does actually so a lot of times God will answer your prayer very concretely in miraculous ways and we've seen it happen a ton of times in a bunch of different in in my own personal life in a bunch of different ways where you ask for something and he does answer it directly and Jesus says this very explicitly you know if you ask for for if your son asked for bread would you give him a stone if you then who are wicked know how to give good gifts how much better will your heavenly father and so God is always answering our prayers but to the points that you guys brought up sometimes not in the ways that we expect and that the key there and the big virtue that we can learn is trust and letting go and it's the the core of what I've tried to and am still at the very beginning of trying to learn but how in him answering whatever it is really the question should be hey I want whatever you whatever you want to do that's what I want help me to want whatever you want for me and I think it's this thing because I would really like this thing uh whatever it is but uh I trust that you're gonna lead me to you and and that trust is so much more valuable than whatever the material thing is even if it's a really important material thing uh that we're asking for so it's it's a it's tough because you prayer does work it does change the lives it is Miracles but the core of it is uh asking God what you should do with your life and asking him to transform your life and I think you know our intro nine Day Challenge is kind of that's really the only point it's like hey prayer let's let's define prayer the right way it's not asking that's an important piece of it we can ask but the the point of it is just to spend time with God and to grow closer to him so is a thing we get all the time but um but at least at least uh if we trust in God we hopefully he'll he'll lead us to the right place that's what I'm betting on awesome hey does anybody um have you seen anybody in your app I could see just from the conversations that I've had with my kids doing some of the meditations uh has anybody started like groups where they play play them in front of you know in front of like five or six people and they kind of share together or is it pretty much an individual app you know in terms of the user base yeah it's a great question the uh there's a few answers to it the the first is like it started just hey you're gonna pray alone in the morning 10 minutes you plug in your headphones now you could do that with someone else and be led through prayer with someone else but um you're gonna do this uh alone we've since built out and I think the beautiful part about faith is that and and prayer especially is that it's meant to be done in community and meant to be done together and so one of the big things we've worked on over the last year or two has been how do we connect people through the app and the you know we have a family prayer where you can spend the uh dinner but put your phone on the table click family prayer and and play it and kind of go around and share where you thought God was in your life that day or what you're grateful for uh as and and you know Auto pauses or whatever so you can play for each each person to share for as long as they want and then go to the next person there's something that it's actually really helpful for building a habit which is having some type of partner some type of accountability um person so we have little families that we call them in the app where you can start a family and and uh you know every time I pray for example it pings my wife that I prayed and what session I prayed and if I reflect on it it shares that reflection with her if I choose to and vice versa which is why I have one with my mom too so I can never let her pray more than I do uh so it's a fun little you know you got a little bit of the spirit of competition and then you know the beautiful part is the church is we do a lot of this stuff together so every month we have monthly challenges which are probably our most popular piece of the app so right now it's the January challenge is uh the Bible in the earpiece but then also how do you get from one minute in prayer to 60 Minutes in prayer and maybe 30 minutes so 30 to 60 Minutes in prayer uh over the course of a month so how do you challenge yourself to get to that and then lent will be a huge one where we pray for 40 days and try to this year with the year being Saint Joseph we try to look uh journey through one Through The Eyes of Saint Joseph and at Advent we do the same thing we will do a 33-day consecration we'll do a 54-day novena so these challenges that we can all come to as a community Through the app as a global church and join in together to pray together so it's there's a bunch of pieces says where it's really important whereas meditation and exercise you can kind of do with other people but is really more of a solo activity prayer for us is it's really important to make sure that you're connecting with your family first and foremost and then your broader community and the broader Church awesome Alex we have to we have to say thank you so much for for sharing with us and and you know supporting so many people's prayer life you know it we have we need to have the building structures of developing spirituality and the tradition of our faith and we have such a long history of what that looks like in the Catholic church but Alex you have with your team have put together such an attractive application to help that process to help so many of us develop that sense of prayer and you know you may find yourself right now my brothers and sisters out there listening in or viewing and you know you want a New Year's resolution you want to have a really a greater effort of Prayer in your life well I have to share with you just a brief story about a woman who was really really struggling in her prayer life and she went to this priest and she expressed father I really want to develop a prayer life because I struggle to believe in God and I'm suffering with so many different things and she was suffering in her marriage she was suffering raising her children she was conceptually thinking like divorced constantly she just wanted to give up and the priest said listen this week I need you to go in before the Blessed Sacrament for 15 minutes of Silent contemplative prayer and she did she came back at the end of the week and she said father it didn't work you know I'm I'm just done he said okay just deal with you know this next week I want you to do 30 minutes she did 30 minutes before the Blessed Sacrament and she came back at the end of the week she said father there's no God is not here God is not present I I just I I don't feel what you're trying to encourage in me I'm not feeling the fruits of prayer I just I want to give up I I can't do this anymore he says all right just give me one more week it's all I want is just one more week he says I want you to go an hour before the Blessed Sacrament every day this week and come back to me at the end of the week two to three days in uh she came back and made an emergency appointment with with the priest and and she went on to say father Jesus is present in the Eucharist because in that openness and that vulnerability and that time that she was giving to God God came to meet her in such a profound and miraculous way that from then until now she is a in Daily Adoration of an hour that's that's her spirituality her contemplative life but again my brothers and sisters we all need to begin somewhere right and no matter where you find yourself we can always take the next step on our journey with intimacy with Christ and one another so check out hallow.com forward slash Catholic Talk show this may be a perfect opportunity for you to utilize this app to grow in your intimacy and your sharing with God and for 30 days hallo is giving you free access because of your relationship with the show and we appreciate your relationship and we want to give a big shout out to our patrons this show would not be able to be produced without you so we really appreciate your financial support of the show if you are considering becoming a financial supporter of the show go to patreon.com forward slash Catholic Talk Show and there you'll see every way that you could support us to ensure content just like this will continue to be produced and support people in their spiritual life again Alex we want to thank you so much for joining us on the Catholic Talk Show we look forward to the continued relationship with you and we most especially Thank You for Your sponsorship no thank you it's been great to work together and a lot of people have have discovered hallow through your guys's work so uh we're we're indebted and Incredibly grateful thank you Brethren my brothers and sisters we'll see you next week God bless [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: The Catholic Talk Show

Views: 29,126

Keywords: Catholic, Catholic Podcast, Catholic Talk Show, Ryan Scheel, Ryan DellaCrosse, Father Rich Pagano, Catholic Show, Taylor Marshall, Mike Schmitz, Hallow, Prayer App, Hallow App, Prayer, Praying, Praying Wrong, Unanswered Prayers

Id: 1fGYXXj98EM

Length: 61min 25sec (3685 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 11 2021