2Pac’s Father Exposes The Truth: Finally Tells His Side Of The Story. (Full Interview)

foreign [Music] dialogue uh thank you for uh coming uh we have a very special guest today by the name of you know what I'm not going to introduce you I'm going to let you introduce yourself to the world a very hard guy to interview and get in touch with it's my pleasure to have you here uh introduce yourself my name is uh William Garland I'm the biological father Tupac Shakur thank you thank you for coming I appreciate you it's my pleasure to be here brother so um we're gonna get right into it and and you know so recently you were involved with the Dear Mama Doc is serious how did you become involved with that project uh Alan Hughes asked me to uh do an interview he didn't tell me it was about Dear Mama he didn't tell me uh too much of anything except that it was about Tupa and after some persuasion because I deny him that interview I didn't want to do no interviews because every time I did an interview it was always taken out of light everything that I said was taking out of contact so I was very reluctant but uh he persuaded me and I did it and we did interviews about two hours uh after I saw the interview in the movie or the documentary I was I was slightly disappointed let's just say that so do you feel like um they took your interview out of context or or projected you in a certain light that you didn't agree with more so than anything that I could ever conceived I didn't like it be honest with you I thought uh it was more about something else than about Tupac if you know what I'm saying okay if I knew it was about Dear Mama I might have still did it but I probably wouldn't have not for nothing so basically what you're saying is he did not tell you that it was going to be about Affinity Chicago not at all and that the foundation was in charge and behind me okay wow so overall um Alan Hughes in dealing with him Alan Hughes called Tupac a delusional mythmaker this was prior to the documentary coming out in an interview and he compared Snoop to Tupac and saying that Snoop was gangster and somehow Tupac wasn't but to the contrary when Snoop inducted Tupac into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Snoop said Tupac was a revolutionary and more so than anything he was gangster so it kind of went against what Alan Hughes was trying to say if you had heard that Alan Hughes had called Tupac a delusional mythmaker do you think that you would have still done the documentary definitely not okay and watching the documentary uh one of the first questions I believe he asked which kind of broke my heart was do you believe Tupac was bipolar I resented that uh based on the fact that he was a kid that came up with nothing he had absolutely nothing he had some success he had that success taken away from him when he went to jail on them flimsy false charges to be shot once five times by black people to be shot again four times later on in Vegas by we're not too sure but we believe black people were involved with other people bipolar doesn't fit how can you be bipolar when people do things to you that make you or changes the way that you believe in them he believed in black people he loved black people he would do anything for black people and then to have that betrayal to have people talk about call them a rapist a racist a rapist to have them say things that were truly unbelievable and it hurt them he couldn't believe that he was betrayed that way he couldn't believe that people saw him in that light so he would flare up he would have this mood change but who wouldn't imagine any human being going through those degrees of emotion I think you would get different degrees of reactions if you know what I'm saying yeah you know it's just that way he was hurt in prison he told me it was hurt What attracted you to the Black Panther Party uh justice not seeing Justice for our people not seeing uh people treated the way that they should be I came up in the 60s I was in high school I like Malcolm X they killed him I even like John King they killed him they killed Martin Luther King this is all in the series of five years kind of molded me they killed Robert Kennedy they killed matum in Africa so it was a lot of death and then used to people that I looked up to people that I liked people who I thought were speaking truth and then for you to assassinate them to kill them I think a change had to be done and then I saw the police brutality of my people I saw the poor housing of my people I saw the lack of medical treatment for my people I saw the lack of education for my people and the Black Panther Party was the only organizations that were willing to put their lives on the line to try and change that and I wanted to be a part of that let me tell you a story I was uh pretty good in basketball I think I was all State High School went to college first college game scored 50 points I was I wasn't willing to [ __ ] I was really very good I could have went I believe Pro but my political convictions made me quit college after one year and joined the Black Panther Party and I thought it was the greatest decision I ever made I mean I sacrificed a lot I but what I achieved what I got from them those experience could never be duplicated I could never have gotten from college I couldn't gotten it I couldn't got any of that from any place else any place I would do that all over again it's not a monetary good decision for me but I wasn't looking at it that way money has never been my uh goal in life to achieve that amount or any amount to make me happy that was what I wanted to do when did you meet Affinity Chicago for the first time I was in the Black Panther Party later on I moved up I was a captain of the New Jersey chapter of the Black Panther Party we were stationed in Jersey City we had chapters in Camden Trenton Asbury Park Atlantic City and uh we would have these meetings in various spots in New York using the Bronx a lot in Manhattan and Harlem sometimes in Queens but all the leaders from all the East Coast branches of the Black Panther Party used to convene regularly maybe weekly maybe bi-weekly depends on circumstances that people were going to and we would discuss our strategy where we are what we have to do and I met a Feeney at the Harlem Office of the Black Panther Party and uh I respected her when I just always thought she was a uh a revolutionary who was willing to put her life on the line like that so we had that in common and that's how we hooked up when Tupac was shot at quad Studios where were you when you got the news I was home in Jersey City and my friend Phil Webb it's a police officer he just started and I hadn't seen pocket he knew about Pocky saw pop when he was a kid I used to bring him over to Jersey City he should spend the night with uh me and my other kids used to sleep in the back bumpers with the kids and uh he had called me and said that uh he had heard Tupac got shot and I hadn't heard of it and I looked on the news and in fact he had I had been trying to reach Tupac for a long time I was talking to his publicist and she was telling me that certain people well athenia said that she had talked to Tupac and had told him that I wanted to meet him or see him after all the years of absence and she told me that pop wasn't ready that he needed more time wow unfortunately later I found out that this wasn't true that no one had told Park that I was available that I was around that I was his father so that kind of hurt if you know what I'm saying that hurt a lot so at the age you spoke about the age just a minute ago when Tupac would come over and so oh yeah it was about three he was three years old yeah maybe about two or three he was and I took him to play basketball and all my friends thought it was my other son Malik Carlos Malik I have uh I had six beautiful kids Landon Carlos and Nika who just passed two months ago sorry to hear that yeah heart attack that's a hard one uh uh take care and uh my youngest son Billy Jr so I have six now I have four uh no uh person should lose a child definitely no person should lose two children absolutely but he was too and now he was three actually so we would play ball we played professional semi-proble all over the East Coast we're very good at it uh Rucker tournaments we're very good at it but I took him to the gym and all the guys said is that belief they were because he looked so much like the rest of the kids and I said no that's Tupa and they said oh okay so I think uh that might have been one of the last few times he stayed with because he would come over and spend the night with the kids and staff spend some time with us maybe a week or so and one little incident too they were all together the boys had the bumpers the girl had her own room Mika but somebody peed the bed you know you and we don't know who peed the bed and we always said uh it was pop but it doesn't really matter I just thought it was cute that the fact that in fact he did maybe uh pissed a bit just like his dad used to do when he was a kid there you go uh what age was Tupac when you lost contact with him uh he had to be I used to go over to uh the Bronx Morningside I used to visit him not as much though when the party broke up it was it was just it was something different uh Cohen tell had changed us Colin tell had had us looking at each other suspiciously there had been a couple murders Panther on Panther murder that's when everybody went to four wins they just scattered everybody went their different ways and I was one of those who went a different way I lost contact with a Fannie which later I found out she had moved to Baltimore than Oakland you see so it was uh I'd say maybe 13 14 years of Gap of not seeing myself people say well why didn't you look for him I didn't know where and then it was something that I wish I had more so but nobody lived in stationary locations we all moved we had Apartments even when we were in the Panthers we had Apartments to have all the Bronx all in Manhattan we were like you know Gypsies not so much uh in that sense but in the way that the way we lived we moved around a lot so I went to a couple places but nobody had seen her they told me someone had moved to Baltimore so I accepted that and there was nothing I could do about it at that time you know I was in the Staples I had wanted to be wanted to be so what are you going to do in um in the doctor series there was a part where Alan Hughes basically said he mentioned a number of addresses that uh affili had potentially moved to throughout that time do you think that was one of the things that probably prevented you also from finding out yeah where Tupac was at yeah no doubt right yeah it was just that way uh I haven't seen members of Black Panther Party till this day man I had slept and women I had slept in Saint Cadre wherever you went you sat you slept you went to the Bronx you went down to DC you went to Philly went to men wherever you went you stayed at the panther Cadre house they gave you a gun and you slept and when you got up you want to do about you want to do your business so it was a situation where I don't think uh I could have uh you know located them even if I wanted to be honest with you but the addresses I knew a couple of them but when I got there they were all dissolved nobody was there like I said we the party dissolved the party ended The Way We Know It you know cointel had us looking at each other really strange come on tell at us looking at each other as enemies you know they were stealing or corresponding to one another uh copying them forging different messages different meanings to the message that make East Coast didn't like West Coast you understand what I'm saying and it was all government's way of Fighters and they did out of the job you know they would do a lot of crazy stuff we had a breakfast program we would feed thousands of kids Jersey City we feed maybe 100 to 2 or 200 a day and it's nothing like anything in the world feeding little children not just black but white so I'm talking from five to 15 free breakfast good food and we had a way to get and we would just go around to the merchants who capitalized on black people and say kick back they said what do you mean he will give us five packs of bacon give us 12 dozen eggs and when you do that to all that they would trip in we had to get up six o'clock in the morning but it was a beautiful day I still see people today in Jersey City come up to me and said I used to eat in The Breakfast program and thank you amazing yeah yeah I I kind of I enjoyed that you know when did you first recognize Tupac again after losing contact with him I believe it was a juice poster or something like that yeah no yeah my boy same guy called me up and said I just saw a movie and the guy's name was Tupac Shakur and I'm looking at this poster and if you look at the poster kind of looked like me in the poster because he's in the front but he really didn't look at like me until you went to the movies and then when I went to the movies I saw and I was sitting in the theater and uh I I started crying and I'm sure people next to me must be why is this grown man crying in this movie but they had no idea I was seeing my son after 15 years on the big Silver Screen and it gave me joy and happiness to see that's when I initially tried to contact and my concern was that he was my son and I just want them to know that his dad is available but uh people aren't always as honest as you think they are my brother they don't always tell the truth you know they don't know I broke my heart because these are people that I willing to die with you understand that I struggled with and uh I don't know it just broke my heart we broke my heart wow amazing when Tupac died you sued the estate most people think that it was out of greed here's your chance to explain to the world your side of the story why did you sue Tupac Shakur's estate it was an insult I was Tupac's father after the quad shoe I was in Belleville I was Tupac's father all my many visitors to Clinton prison and dannemore I was Tupac's father in Las Vegas me and Feeney's in the Golden Nugget crying the night he died so I was Tupac's father up until he died and when it came time I think it was the rebate or the death certificate I think it was the rebate of the I think it was the death certificate papers the probate probate okay and uh she had signed that uh she was the mother in that little section that says father she had put that he was dead Wow broke my heart broke my heart could have talked to me I ain't want no money from too buggy with a mother I didn't care but for you to disrespect me and treat me like that what else you know I don't want this state I just wanted to be no noted that his father is alive I'm Not Dead and I resented the fact that you had said that and you knew I wasn't I wasn't Dead all those other times that we were together with our son so how did I die all of a sudden and I can only deduce that it was over money I hate to say that I mean come on don't get me wrong I'm we're here talking about it but I don't want to talk about a thing she was a beautiful woman she meant well she was a revolutionary but then something happened I don't know later on it was just that lie that made me see her in a different light so I didn't see my son until he got shot in Belleville whereas I don't need you or anybody else to tell me how I can hook up with myself I'll go to Bellevue and see my son and that's when the first time he saw me he said he looked up and saw me thought it was him as an older person I laughed I told him he was just me and him in the room I said I'm with you now remind me of something of the [ __ ] Godfather movie but it was the true thing we hugs and kissed and then it was on in probably like that he wanted me to come see you um it was the incident in the video of the documentary with jazz Jasmine Guy said that I just showed up at her apartment well I wouldn't be able to find Jasmine Guy Parkman if I knew how I was sent for by Tupac to come visit him at Jasmine's guide that's what I had to do he called for me I came and close there's something about he was rolling joints for the stars I can't roll them blunts them [ __ ] had a cigar box and a mountain [ __ ] a weed on the table and it was that chronic [ __ ] now I gotta show this [ __ ] that I ain't no punk I'm gonna smoke with my son worst mistake I ever met made it was horrible that's the strongest read you could ever imagine but I don't roll Blunts and for you to say that it was just you know the debate well I thought it was legs I thought it was this I thought it was that and then I found out unfortunately later on after she died he died that he would have heated arguments with her about her deception towards her father because if you listen to his music he always wanted to know about his father he always spoke of his father I've been accepted Dear Mama my daddy's dead you know you heard what he said I said well hey I guess he just don't know because I ain't dead there we go but this is what people had told him and so it was difficult you know it was a difficult situation the legal battle between you and the Phoenix Accord became pretty ugly at times over Tupac's estate at one time she called you a sperm donor how did that make you feel that kind of hurt it's kind of hurt and then you know why would you uh why would you say that the greatest rapper of all times father you got from the sperm bank it's like insulting why would you say that and that hurt me this was along the lines when I also said that I would I'm legally here and I'm challenging for this stage that's why I did it all these accusations all these things you're saying no let's have our day in court let's just work it out you know I got some money from and I got about a mill but there wasn't nothing that I could have gotten I was never after the money I just didn't want to be dead I didn't want Tupac's dad to be dead and I wasn't there and I resented the fact that you said I was that you know I used to go to the prisons I had Tupac when like nobody else had he would not be able to come out of the nine by six cell unless he had a visitor he had plenty of business I got a list I have the visitors list from Clinton and you could see everybody who visited pop on that list it says William Garland apparently not only that I had parked for six hours no weed no women no autographed Seekers just me and him sitting at a metal table she went on [ __ ] you know what I'm saying clear-eyed and he asked me the most devastating questions about his mother I thought it wasn't my duty to tell him anything negative about it also be known that she had did all these other things and told her him some other things you know anyone always ask me perhaps you need some electrical parts you need some money you get me now you have to understand I ain't got no money but I didn't need no money I was doing what I do so I was just fine and I could never take money from my son at this particular time because I never wanted anyone to think that I appeared to capitalize on our relationship man between me and you I could have used some money you was giving it away to everybody else you was giving it away the people in Vegas and [ __ ] you take a whole tribe of people to Vegas uh he told me some stories negative things you know he'd give 30 000 to his mother in them they go gambling maybe about three four hours later they come back looking for some more money he always had the Posse which is his boys but did you ever notice real stars don't have five or six people hanging on you go to the jewelry store buy a piece of jewelry you know you got to buy a piece for them you go gambling in Vegas you know you got to get them 10 G's see what I'm saying so it was always people extracting taking things from him I could never do that I might have been the only one who never did and he had asked me but I couldn't much as I probably could have used you know what I'm saying but I I couldn't I couldn't I just couldn't uh the second time the Tupac was shot in Las Vegas where were you when you got the news I was home in Jersey City somebody told me pocket got shot again unbeknownst to me I knew that uh I'd have to go out there I got on the next flight the next morning I got out there we sit in the parking lot with the Quincy Jones ex-wife what's that these The Mod Squad girl I ever get her name you know what I'm talking about yeah and his girl right he's sitting on the Curve and uh I remember she said to him mommy who's he look like joking of course I look like him a great deal younger I'm older now maybe not so much and um I don't know I always thought he would come through [ __ ] had been shot before and I just thought he would come too but when I walked into that room and get a zipper here and a ventilator bandage here bandage here the face looks swollen for the induced coma I just sat down and talked to him this doctor said that he might be able to hear and it's good to talk to him don't look for him to talk back because he couldn't he had that thing in his mouth he never gained conscious they had people talking about I talked to him in the hospital and all that full of [ __ ] you ain't talking to nobody in the hospital because he never gained consciousness funny thing though only a certain few can go in your room relatives but every time I came out there was two Suge Knight guys sitting at the door they'd always wrong Russian and say the Tupac say anything unspeknownst to me I'm not paying attention to that I don't know what behind that later on I found out why maybe he thought he seen the people who had tried to kill him but that might have been the saddest thing and uh at my time in my life at that time because I was went back to the hotel and uh going back to the hospital and on the radio it said that Tupac Shakur had died I was at a red light [ __ ] were blowing at me and honking and [ __ ] I couldn't move I just pulled this out of the roof shed it to you my son was killed still to this day they don't know who or why damn sure wasn't Orlando Anderson open a fight but that's another story for another time how long was the relationship between you and the Feeney and do you remember when and where Tupac was conceived no probably in the Bronx so we you know so that they would we did that that's what we did the relieved attention I mean it was serious [ __ ] we might get killed tonight they was breaking in uh Panther offices and apartments on the regular you slept with a gun by your side just in case we always believe in self-defense you come in and shooting like me We Shoot back that's wrong it was simple it was just simple like that so we had a relationship who wasn't always you know America boys and girls but we had respect for one another and uh I would say probably in the Bronx so in the Bronx yeah in the Bronx so uh so how long how long would you say the relationship lasted maybe about 18 months 18 months yeah until the end until that colon tell uh kind of destroyed the party because that's what better yeah they were just two stuff so that was a that was a pretty extensive relationship I mean for what you guys were going through at that particular time 18 months but we weren't married it was it was always uh my man my woman we had respect for one another I heard somebody say that I was a good driver I think Jamal said that in the movie yeah I was a good driver that's why we put him on the feed [ __ ] I was the captain of Black Panther Party in Jersey I mean if any was having love we made love and at night when we left the Bronx I would drop my ass off at Dakota then I would go across the bridge and go back home to Jersey City and deal with what I had to deal with I resented that I just did major was that you wanted to manage me to build her up that's what bothered me about the whole day not for nothing hey I don't want to get off for that but it did bother me brother Jamal Joseph said in the Dear Mama documentary that you were just the driver in the panther party uh you were a very good driver he said could you please explain your actual position in the Black Panther Party Like I said I was a captain in Jersey chapter Black Panther Party the various chapters did a lot of different things some legal some not yeah I didn't want to get into that but I found that insult that you looked at my commitment to the struggle of my people that's just the driver or severe or a phoenix security or personal Drive what an insult right then I can't forget that was chapter uh the first episode of whatever it was I said oh well this is not going the way I thought it would go you know kind of broke my heart kind of broke my heart how dare you I know Jamal he was a [ __ ] kid when I was in the panther party he was a child man in fact his case got severed because he was the new fourth offender he wasn't old enough to be tried with the regular Panther 21. do you say that a good driver I was a good driver but that ain't what the [ __ ] I did how dare you say that you know you just broke my heart it just broke my heart you know anyway uh for the people who say that you could have found Tupac before he got shot in the hospital that really don't understand your circumstances in dealing with that situation what do you say to them I could have found them huh no I mean maybe who knows but I got lucky most of the guys I know were women that I knew had scattered nobody goes around there was no one location we didn't meet up at the bar after the party closed we just didn't see each other no more all the parts Panther uh party offices were closed all the panther party Apartments were no longer there it was a different thing we were all different a lot of us started self-medicating anyways include me I did some things you know but um now I wish I could have and it was a very difficult thing to know you have a son out there that you can't find that you can't call that that you don't know where he is or what he's doing and you don't really bring that up because a certain extent you are embarrassed who could tell because they they did disposition on my some of my relatives and and they were actually they said they some new pox and some didn't and the ones who did and said well he just didn't bring them around I didn't know of them but it was very difficult for me to tell you that I have a son out there that I don't know where he is I don't know what he's doing so for me to see him in that first movie in juice to know that he had survived until that age made my heart swell and I wanted to see him and I wanted to know and that's when I started his publicist with old friend of mine Karen me from Jersey City I thought that was the biggest coincidence that we ever could have she was his publicist she was the one I was dealing with but I found that atheny controlled her so Feeney was telling her that Paul needed a little more time because I was trying to meet park for one to three four years trying to meet him one of the lawyers for her asked me well why didn't you go to one of his movies and make a scene and raise your hand that you're his father I that's just not my stop one two I was told that he didn't really want to see me at this time which I found out later was alive you see what I'm saying but I couldn't have done that that ain't my style I got too much pride you know especially if you to believe what she said that he said he didn't want to see so why would I go and do The Groovy thing hey Park I'm your dad no that ain't me I'd never do that little [ __ ] like that I thought he knew now if I would have known that he was not told the truth then I might have as a matter of fact let me tell you a true story I used to do air freight I used to Chuck I used on the trucking concern people who need stuff overnight good money in it back in the day they would ship it overnight good fees you can get you can make a lot of money but I used to deliver in Jersey City the cemetery that The Sopranos and everybody big Cemetery Jersey City goes down the hill Newark Avenue I found out that I passed him when they were filming the movie Above the Rim I saw all the cameras and you know the truck I don't have to tell you because you know about that filming Cruise I later learned that I was this [ __ ] close if I'd have parked the truck and walked over there I could have seen my son wow but I didn't know that would you know I don't get I don't stop this when I see people filming you know but that was a very coincidental I thought you know amazing yeah but I had to go two more years before I got a chance to see them first time I seen them when we got to talk was in the hospital we didn't talk they were still recovering from that I went to Jasmine guy's house that shot in the nut [ __ ] excuse me if anybody entitled me to be rude but pop was sitting on the couch he had sent for me he was happy to see me he said hey Pops pulled back his [ __ ] blanket shook me his nuts today's shooting in the nuts and yeah not for nothing I didn't realize he was my son there because we tend to no okay but uh I thought that was funny a lot of lies that boy had to suffer so much that boy went through so much people lying on him people stealing his money you know go ahead I'm oh God I'll be rambling so I don't want you no you know we had to you know celebrate your legacy his legacy and get the truth yeah I'm just the father yeah but uh you're part of that like you're part of that Legacy because without you he wouldn't be here and without a feeling he wouldn't be here so no doubt yeah so and my 70s brother so I figured let me tell my side I've had offers maybe I would say 10 offers to do interviews I did about three and all three were you sit there you talk to somebody for two years you thought you were relating to them you thought you were getting the point across you thought you were telling the truth and then when you see it it's just totally different from what you had said they took it and twisted it and you're like whoa so that's why I backed up how how much did you ask me to do this interview brother tell the truth it was about a year yeah how many times ah I can't even talk about it a lot of times yeah you said no and you didn't know and give you some time and but I told you [ __ ] on the phone didn't it yeah absolutely absolutely we talk very extensively and I think you know I thank you for that thank you for that information and that knowledge oh I saw you were real when you did an interview about uh when you did a segment on about how she lied to him yeah and I said well finally somebody [ __ ] sees it well actually I had that experience in my life you told me so yeah it kind of hit me home for me and I just felt that that was important you know for all of the uh young men black young men but mainly us that go through that I thought that was important that we believe do you understand my dilemma absolutely the greatest rapper of all [ __ ] Time come on you could pretend Jay-Z he got the most [ __ ] money you present Snoop Dogg he's the most cursed commercialized now greatest they singing my son's [ __ ] 27 years after his death I listened to his [ __ ] if he wasn't my son I listened to his [ __ ] he's that good he takes words that anybody could use just puts them together with a beat and you're bobbing your head you're saying yeah that's true listen to this man he's saying things that make sense that touches the soul of every person in America and he was the leader and he had a large following and I think that might have been contribution to his demise between you and I but that's another story during the time that Tupac was on death row did you have any communication with him and if not uh did you try to reach out to him yeah I would call defro a few times and then I found out that they may not have been giving him the message then finally I they did and it breaks my heart to this day that the last time I talked to Tupac he called me I'm telling he said hey Pops I don't know what he was doing or what time it was but it was early in the morning and I had been on one of them [ __ ] up benches I was just saying okay we used to do things and we stay up all night and yeah we had fun you know didn't have the stigma behind the dead of days now but we had fought and I was tired and he had called me and I didn't give him no rat no conversation he just said hi pop how you doing I want to see you I want you to come out and I was like yeah but I was short if you know what I mean you know what short is no end today it was the last conversation I had myself and to this day I wish I had said more then I found out after he died Feeney was staying at the Golden Nugget we all went there I was staying at the Luxor she had gotten a room for me I still have the receipt of the key and uh we were just talking with all smoking weed trying to uh crying everybody was crying I called the kids back in Jersey told them their brother had died it was uh it was just a little overwhelming I'm sorry doing the MTV interview with Tabitha Soren on Venice Beach Tupac said you and him spoke about things in regards to him finding out that you were his real father that he didn't want to talk about would you care to talk about some of those things that you and him talked about in the hospital as you were saying as well as the other times that you guys talk but I think he was mainly talking about in the hospital well we didn't talk that much in the hospital because he had been moving away he was suspicious and I didn't like it because he was in the room on the different floor by his [ __ ] self with no guards and he had asked to see me but I when I look back at it I didn't think it was legit if somebody could have easily went in and did something that's why he left the hospital he was still suspicious first time I met biggie which made me no it wasn't no East Coast West Coast [ __ ] I'm in a a weight room I get to the hospital I get there they got the guards the Rope I'm trying to get in I said I'm uh two popsicles father he looked me dead in the [ __ ] eye told me Tupac Shakur daddy dead I'm like oh just so happened to Phoenix happened to walk by feeding your glow I'm not sure I think it was a Feeney and she said yes that is his father let him in wait in the weight room biggie came in by himself by himself nobody shoots no somebody then comes to the waiting room of the person that you supposedly had shot by themselves and he approached them he said Mr Gold and I understand you're his father is anything I could do feel free to call him it was very pleasant young man people were coming up to me they're befriending me it was it was in a way I knew he would survive I just knew he would from what I had seen and then messages were coming down that he's conscious he's the wolf they took the bullets out most of them so I said he's all right I'm sad that he got shot but I'm happy that I'm here and if it took this for me to get here so bad same thing I thought in Vegas there's no way I thought Park would have done you're a [ __ ] way I just know he would make I just knew he would make and he might have there's been a lot of speculation to innuendo over the years but what happened that night in Las Vegas when Tupac was shot what do you think ultimately happened I don't know that that that's something that's got to be discussed a different type I would think I I will say I don't think Orlando Anderson unfortunately who is the person responsible for that death I will say also that I think the same people who killed my son killed Biggie done in the same way same stuff I think that when someone says that they're taking their business their potential means millions and millions of dollars profit away from a certain group of individuals I think that those individuals might tend to think well if we do this we'll still have all the Masters and we'll still have 165 I think unreleased at that time then it can go write a song taking a [ __ ] in the bathroom telling you that's what he would do he would go take a [ __ ] and we'll come back with some verses to a new song with that capable so he was very prolific in his ability to put words pin to the paper um the problem was he wasn't getting what he deserved Park would have to go ask for a bunch of royalties apocal sick where's my money and then they would always deliver a car found out later he wasn't even in his name you buy a house found out it wasn't it didn't have his name send them to the jewelry store he'd buy everybody so they're going down this jewelry store and buy yourself some jokes it's been 40 50 60 70 000 by his boy some [ __ ] found out later they took this out his royalties so he was actually spending his own money as opposed to you giving me my money and letting me spend it the way I see fit yeah it was never that I think he had about two hundred thousand dollars in it in his account when he died the park was alive he'd be bigger than all of them JCB there's no there's no doubt in my mind with his acting and his music there's no doubt in my mind and he would have a large follow and I think that's what scared the board anyone else the things he were talking about were true you know depression of his people each brutality yeah they didn't they couldn't happen then you know and I know our leaders get snuffed out real quick when they start telling the truth and everybody thought he was crazy he wasn't crazy he's frustrated yeah I got off into that East Coast West Coast thing somebody was pumping his head with that [ __ ] I'm talking about the early stage and when I talked to him in prison what he had planned on doing in his latter stage what he wanted to do but he got caught up in some people and they were pumping his head with [ __ ] and you know smoking a lot of weed you know tell your story pot smoke so much weed when he got out they got him outside the thing they released them getting the limo oh they feed them blondes champagne gets on the plane blunts champagne when pot got off the plane I think he felt dead on his face boy because he hadn't been used to it it's been about eight nine months he hadn't had anything you know clear-headed but as as he was a clear-headed he often talked about what he wanted to do he just wanted to do something more positive he got little things I said well why are you spit at the report he said Park I don't I was just frustrated I ain't gonna do that [ __ ] no more I said there you shouldn't it's a negative look so he would tell me these things you know about not why he did something but the fact that he did do it uh those times that we had together I guess I'll just have to cherish though because uh I got him when nobody else got that clear clear-eyed pure talk we just we just chopped it off about everything we were so similar his wife called one time I brought my wife he brought his wife and they started talking she said does he uh oh somehow we got on Sunflower season his wife said yeah Park sits on T on the couch in these Sunflower season put some everywhere my wife says yes he does the same thing and I was like talking about you yeah okay I sat down no matter what maybe it is in the jeans you know what I'm saying she's in the jeans because you could be around someone and they don't necessarily have to be like you it doesn't it's just it's just that way you know just that way absolutely I took his two brothers up there one time they met him uh I got a letter that he wrote uh my brother who's passed my brother Brock two years older than me uh that he wanted to meet the other side of his family I actually had a chance to read that you told you saw that that's a very powerful isn't that powerful very powerful letter I'll let you make a copy and you could show yeah yeah absolutely I appreciate that I wish I had it done when I read it it hit me so hard I was like Wow because that was somebody who wasn't the Tupac that joined death row her that was somebody that was clear wanted to get to know his family but I won't say anymore who put it on the screen okay he said he went to my father so I just didn't have these things I when I went to trial I just thought the fact that I was his father everybody wanted half the stage from the state but you just ain't gonna say I'm dead [ __ ] give me a couple dollars I'll go about my goddamn way but don't say I'm dead don't do that don't he wouldn't want that one you did it once in the beginning now you're going to do it after he dies again how is that fair to pop how's that fair to his legacy I got pictures people say y'all look so much alike I when I was younger I'm an old [ __ ] now you know but I'm just saying and then I look at him he looks just like all my kids they I'll show you some pictures later thank you I appreciate it next question I gotta ask this question keithy confessed to the United States government in a proper agreement to handing his nephew Orlando Anderson the gun that ultimately killed your son Tupac Shakur after Orlando was jumped at the MGM Grand you've never spoken on this how does that make you feel that he confessed to that and the government gave him a deal well I think the key question there is the government the government gave him the deal the same he was being tailed by the government the night of his assassination he's being tailed by the government quad Studio that's a known fact known fact so I don't know this guy Keith I don't know maybe he had to say that to get out of some issue I don't know I just know it looked like a setup to me somebody told this guy to stand there with the death rule thing and it pursued to what we had but I don't think he had anything to do with the death of myself so you don't think Orlando Anderson had anything not at all okay not at all bro not at all a lot of people believe that but a lot of people believe pox and Cuba with a beer you know Mexico drinking tequila ain't no [ __ ] gonna go on vacation for 27 years and Escape all the notoriety that he's used to nobody people say oh he went back to jail for the fight yeah but he only had six months left to the charge he could have did that standing on his head get out of here so full of [ __ ] but that's that's the myth brother that's what they want you to believe then let it ride it ain't gonna do no good who we find who did it what's close that knock on the prostitute so what was the deal huh I think you might be right about that when you arrived at Bellevue Hospital after Tupac was shot at quad Studios explain to the viewers what it was like and what happened when you got there when I saw him yeah the process in which you you come into the hospital well I got I came in the hospital yeah they looked at me like I was strange like it was the guard Diego was a lot of depression everybody you know when I told him I was his father he told me that Park his father's dead then I finally get in it was still a lot of press I went to the bathroom a guy from the post followed me and they wanted me to know who am I and the thing he said don't talk to the press and then I respected her because if be honest with you I wish I had said something then and established my relationship with him right there but you have to understand after years and years of respecting someone and seeing them as a positive revolutionary person like you thought you were and then find out that they're just people people do some strange [ __ ] with different reasons but usually the root of it is money and that's never been me and never been hell he didn't give a [ __ ] about money true story Park went to a store I'm one of the Spencer's [ __ ] I forget maybe in Hollywood Boulevard or somewhere real wherever the hell the expensive clothes you know rodeos Dale Drive right and he's looked and he's getting some gear he bought something and there was a man looking at some boots the boots costs five thousand dollars very expensive and park sold this guy looking at the roots and the man just kept looking at him and park said do you like those I think I said yeah but I can't afford show you what the [ __ ] swamp yeah that's what he did that's how he was he didn't care about money if you would have noticed he never really had a large amount of money which he should have come on man all eyes on me he should have had at least 10 mil in the bank easily he's never seen a mill he's seen a mill in merchandise he'll live here here's a car take the Beamer this is yours find out it wasn't so in his mind then he's smoking that chronic [ __ ] he's not thinking straight the [ __ ] and stuff put his panties out on me he's just enjoying the moment see how fast that was P that was the fastest six years you ever want to imagine to go from down here to go here but then to be taken back down and placed in a cell for a crime that you didn't do that you love black women and for a black woman to put you there because she said that you groped it people said he raped it wasn't rapely groped him who goes to grail for groping and then groping someone who gave you fellatio on the Dance Floor the night before how's that work how can you be punished for that and he didn't grow up he was in the bed getting a massage and fell asleep in the other room that was that other dude but I didn't want to get a match yeah Haitian Jack dude you know what I'm talking about ah drop a name here in there what's the difference everybody knows so yeah so he felt betrayed that was that anger that he would betray you know the spit the the the curse it [ __ ] you [ __ ] and this and that because he felt betrayed here he's willing to die to give up his life for black people and he definitely would because I would have that's the way I thought when I was out there and then to have them twice twice to betray you shooting you put you in jail that [ __ ] hurts man hurts your soul absolutely hurt yourself absolutely absolutely in the Dear Mama documentary it was mentioned that you were with Tupac at Jasmine guy's house after he checked himself out of the hospital what was that experience like it was cool I was quiet though because he had all the Outlaws around the thing he was in the Next Room I wanted to talk to him and she sat between me and him I to the life of me I didn't understand what was going on but I hey she's been on the scene she got a right to sit next to her son but um when I look back on it and I guess she just maybe wanted to know what I was going to say to him or what he was going to say to you and and find out later in life that like I said they had heated heated heated arguments to the day he died that she did not tell him the truth about his father and so we were sitting up there I tell you we smoked that chronic I can't smoke that [ __ ] almost knocked me out brother I can't smoke I smoke weed but I want to be with my son all the Outlaws I'm about I'm about 40 something then right yeah I can hang with you [ __ ] I ain't scared I'm gonna smoke with y'all boy that chronic [ __ ] me up it almost knocked me out I'll Never Smoke that [ __ ] again and this [ __ ] over here is just rolling the whole box of cigars they just kept rolling and they would just pass it around and round and round I said this is how y'all do it all right come on man never again whatever but we couldn't talk that was the deal because he had so many people how can you talk intimately went to it's a small apartment you know a little bit bigger than this but five dudes a mother Jasmine guy came home later but I was a little disappointed when I saw that she said he just popped up I don't know if you remember that you got to watch the yeah I do yeah I watched it I I just popped up I looked at my wife oh this is where this is going I'm just a come along [ __ ] in the middle of the night I it just blew my mind brother it blew my mind so at the apartment it was discussed by numerous of people that Tupac had guns and he was ready to roll no he had the gun to protect himself yeah yeah yeah he just gotten shot right if I got shot I might have a gun he just had one gun that's all I saw but he had Everybody by his couch he was laying on the couch because you know the womb uh no he wasn't ready to roll with he's still waiting for sentencing so what's he gonna do right just got shot where could he go where somebody wouldn't say they go tuba so you know is always hearsay bro I'm always you know people are going to say something which bothers me because to this day I've never seen so many people bite off of artists like they bite everybody's got experience with Tupac everybody's got something to say about Tupac and I don't know how you could you know that's just amazing you know and it's usually to promote this [ __ ] so that's just the way it is the reason why I asked that question was because you were there and you would know and I think that that's very important to get that first hand information not the innuendo not the speculation not what I think not what I think I saw but you were there so I appreciate that and and your honesty about that hmm do you feel like Tupac was playing out of his League involving himself with the situation with Orlando Anderson in Las Vegas that night that shouldn't did that but pop would be Edge he's just got hyper and he thought he had to leave and if you noticed any video everybody's following him around he's the money maker death row was a hundred million dollar thing but everybody's following Tupac you know think about that logic everything he did everybody attached himself to him and maybe he felt obligated to prove that I'm going to be your leader in each talk first only because someone had told him that this is the guy who stole the death roll medallion that's like somebody told you somebody cursed at your mother oh I hit your mother you're gonna approach it now the way he did it was off limits you don't cameras every [ __ ] way come on but that's that's the irrational [ __ ] you do and you know that broke my heart but there's a lot of little [ __ ] that he did but then look all the good [ __ ] he did though well look what he did look what he's done I don't think it'd be done again I don't neither don't think so do you think that Tupac claim was joined the Gang no the MLB game no no if you ever look at some of his pictures he had blue Bananas on he had red ones on he had to I don't want to say pretend but he had to that for Suge Knight things so what are you gonna say I'm not a part of that on which we ride the die together my best friend but in reality he wasn't too many people love Bob the Crips loved them they loved them and that was the case they would love they would have tried to kill him and they didn't absolutely had nothing to do with that how do you feel like you were depicted in the Dear Mama docu series I think the exact way that they wanted to prick me that I was just someone who popped out of the woodwork to try and hook on to Tupac's star and not that I was his father who had been trying to reach him for the five years and had been lied to for four of those years so that hurt better that bothered me uh I think everybody uh had a personal beef with my son who was in that movie I really do the Hughes brothers some other people said some things you know come on man bipolar how dare you say that you know how dare you with some other things that they said that he did no question the one thing that pissed me off he asked the question that Tupac shoot himself in the nuts remember yes I do I said well why would you ask that disparaging question what the [ __ ] does that got to do with their mouth but it realized maybe this guy don't really like Park as much as and people have been signing that I they said that well why would they use brother talk didn't like that man why would he be doing it of course for money I didn't know the foundation was doing foundational like me they like a Fannie not for nothing and I don't want to still like to this day and I'll repeat it now talk down on Phoenix she was she was in fact a revolutionary woman and I loved it for that what changed is what money became involved and that kind of broke my heart but uh the whole movie there I ain't got a few scenes but there is some other ones I don't even know what the [ __ ] they were saying because I talked two hours and the [ __ ] the accident [ __ ] they put in there it was just crazy it was just crazy people said you did well you didn't get nothing from me you had long five minute conversations with everybody else you had little tidbits with me that's what it seemed like to me yeah nothing nothing bro and I said some very what I'm saying to you I said to say [ __ ] to him and throughout the whole [ __ ] movie they talked about the same [ __ ] that everybody talks about all his troubles trouble with the law the fights all the [ __ ] well that's well known it talk about something that people don't know about the depth of his soul talk about that they had a section where the police was saying everywhere he goes is trouble remember I don't know if you saw that that's like what the [ __ ] is that why would you say that like he brought the trouble they hated him the establishment hated him the government hated him a black man never walked out of court after shooting two police officers in the ass in the history of this country and he walked because the police officers were intoxicated stolen guns from the property room whatever the case and they were breaking the law but they charged my son cross charged a [ __ ] he's always one more yeah it didn't offer anything that we didn't know already did you get it I'm not asking you no questions but I didn't get anything from that all I got from it with some pictures and clips of my son and I love that because when somebody's been dead for 27 years you love always seen a reflection of them no Reflections you know what I'm saying right and that was basically all that they offered as far as I'm concerned because none of that had come in so are you saying that the pictures that you've never seen before writing with my couple's pictures and exactly that's what I'm saying okay and I enjoyed that right I did too I enjoyed those yeah I got some things that in the archives and how they included the music videos and things like that to behind the scenes right I think that was very interesting that yeah I like that I get to see myself but I see them every day I walk down the street somebody's got them all this [ __ ] I drive into this people talking about them there's commercials there's movies I go home there's two or three movies that's going to come on he's the joke of everybody's uh comedy uh Tupac thing I've never seen uh uh uh uh I don't know there's a parent who has to uh endure uh being reminded uh so often that they have a dead son I have a freshly Fair the Janice Joplin I don't I couldn't even imagine because I never heard nobody joke about Janis Joplin ever gradually Jimi Hendrix or none of that like they do every [ __ ] day there's something about him and on one hand I'm happy you know I'm that's my son yeah I said you're beautiful with all this and it's still sad because he's gone you know it's it's bitters it's a Bittersweet type thing you know it's I I'm happy for his existence and this nothing that could take away from that I'm just so sad would I want them back he's got to be where he is because he's just that yeah he's stupid yeah he's a legendary you got statues in German [Music] I love you Jay you're all right you give to the people I know you're good you know all right well you ain't got no statues in German South America no so since we're on the Jay-Z question um or Jay-Z and I love the God let me let me let me ask this question uh Jay-Z in and around 1996 dropped his album Reasonable Doubt and Jay-Z wasn't widely known at that particular time yeah the publicity wasn't kicking Up Tupac was the man well he was the he was the the dawn of the whole rap industry at that particular time yes he was all eyes on me had did very well upon Tupac's death nobody knew that Tupac had Makaveli ready in the beginning of the Makaveli album Tupac mentioned Jay-Z's name do you think that Tupac mentioning Jay-Z's name had anything to do with the publicity and the fame that he would capture after that moment no I I didn't see it that way it might might possibly be but I think today JC's just a very talented individual and uh he's gotten everything he deserves this money out there to be made and he's made his money I wish my son would have made his money I wish he had better management I wish he had a better Foundation because all that he did do I don't think his family or him ever saw the benefits the rewards from that no but I don't think JC could pop would spit on everybody you know remember he talked about Jay-Z and Mobb Deep all them I think that's sporadic I think that's the Heat of the Moment you feel somebody challenges you you just speak up on it you verbally the [ __ ] would just open his mouth he ain't care what he said and what he said it whether it was right or wrong because we know some [ __ ] he said was wrong we know some [ __ ] he did was wrong but in this whole scheme of things that ain't that big of a deal when you think about it you know I'm sure that they would have gotten along in the latter stages of the career if they would have been together you know what I'm saying yes I appreciate that the reason why and the reason why I say that is because it was the final or what was thought to be the final piece of art from Tupac because at that particular time unbeknownst to the public they did not know that Tupac had another album ready oh I didn't know and so with that there was a heightened awareness as to that album and what Tupac had to say that was the reason why I asked you that question oh okay no I I wasn't aware of that I can't really speak on it okay thank you I appreciate that do you feel like it was a fair and accurate depiction of your son Tupac Shakur from what you know about him based on the Dear Mama doctor series no I thought it was more Bass on a thingy I think it's it lived up through the name Dear Mama with Tupac in the co-starring position to elevate her not that she needed that because it's a great woman don't get me wrong she made tuba with the help of course for his father but she was a good mother she did the best she could she had issues but we all had issues but uh no I didn't I I I thought they could have in more in depth about what made Tupac the way he was and not the reaction to everything else that had occurred in his life the crime the scenes the gun fights the oh the stupid [ __ ] that's like all eyes on me stupid as [ __ ] movie ever wanted to see and I could say that right now on screen stupid as [ __ ] movie you ever wanted to see I watched it once and it was ridiculous any good movie you know that you watch it over and over because it makes you want to watch it did you want to see that one again no not action yeah it didn't offer it did you might as well took all the news clippings and put them together and then just read that you know the screaming the the negative uh loud Outburst uh the impatients of of the of behavior nothing about how he cared for his people people forget that that's how he came check out how Tupac started out it was the most deepest revolutionary music you had ever heard it was before it stopped and then he had that break in certain things happened that allowed that made him or I don't know why it did make him do that but he changed you know only that East Coast West Coast I'll shoot you [ __ ] this and that you feel betrayed so you're gonna speak on it he just when he spoke on it maybe 20 million people here you know where everybody knew we say stupid [ __ ] but nobody hears it that's just the way it is absolutely yeah yeah I just wish that they had just showed more of pop that's all I just wish they asked you more of what made him the way what made him the way he really was and and they that didn't do it that showed more a fanny uh uh more than anything else and you can show a Fannie but then don't build it up as a Tupac movie I know it's Dear Mama but let's be honest Park said that he made that song okay this is going to hurt the world but I don't know if I should even say this when I was talking to park in prison he said he said pops when I made that song I made it for all mobs who were stronger of course it fit my mom so I let her run with it but I made it for all the bugs because all the mothers deserve that Feeney didn't go through no more than any other single parent mother raising a child I mean it's a thin line bro I don't want to disparage The Finisher cool I totally understand yeah but I want to tell you what I believe and what he told me yeah you know he told me some things that I'm not going to say now but weren't very pleasant things that he did for her I don't know if they were appreciated to buying their house and wasn't big enough buying a car wasn't new enough little stupid [ __ ] but he would tell me this how would I know this if he didn't tell me so so you said that Tupac told you that he would buy a phoenix Shakur when he bought her a house and he bought her a car she gave it to her daughter she gave it to her daughter and she would say that the house was bigger yeah oh wow I don't know if I should say that yeah no I mean it's the truth yeah but a car wasn't good enough yeah he was he was blind to me he didn't know we had some serious conversations he asked me to talk to him about his mother he said Daddy tell me he said tell me about my mom I think it was my first visit and I had no idea how could I tell you I think I think and I want you to continue but I think this is what he was talking about and walking down Venice Beach oh some of the things that you guys talked about you know from that perspective so could you elaborate well he he just wanted to know in fact anything I could Enlighten him about or what I was just getting to know him and was in my nature and what I'm telling you now I really hate my nature to be saying but I'm I'm saying it they talk I'm tall it's my shot I'm gonna say it like it is what he told me so I'm telling the world you believe it if you want if you don't that's up to you you really don't matter you really are when you put it all together what's it matter people gonna have opinions of Pop people have opinions of me and opinions of a Feeney but uh you don't have to knock down one to build up another that's all I'm saying stand on your own marriage be your own person and let that go for what it is that's what I found difficult with that documentary absolutely and then the questions that were asked the bipolar did he shoot himself why would you even bring that up in this Legacy why would you even have people question in fact oh Tupac shot himself in the nuts what the [ __ ] who cares if he did but he didn't but who cares and you had everybody agreeing oh the Glock doesn't have a safety well why the [ __ ] do you know you weren't there did he show you his nuts I'm getting a little excited I do that at times but uh when I was watching it it just pissed me off it just pissed me off because in fact you did see what was there and what happened he showed you when you came to the hospital nothing was intact brother okay yeah no he did this when Jasmine's got apartment all he did in the Jasmine yeah okay yeah when I went to see him first I walked in the room pulled back the cover butt naked say pop they didn't shoot me in the nuts now why he wanted to show me that I don't know but he did so that's cool I was happy to see it it's funny how that made its rounds before it even think about that yeah but the discipline I got some clippings that I looked at before I came over remember I said I was looking for papers in the in the whole thing was he lived by the way he died he was against it he was a thug these are the Articles written in ink about my son's demise that I could show you but you've well known that that happened uh Park was just out there trying to do what he do and you know he wasn't no Bill he never heard nobody in his life he would help people matter of fact and that's what I think might have uh heard him because he's helping these people fight this guy over a mythical [ __ ] black people shouldn't be fighting one another anyway so what the [ __ ] are we fighting each other over a medallion a medallion got the greatest rapper of all time skill think about that that logic that mentality get the [ __ ] out of here I'm sorry bro yeah keep that in but I just get frustrated when I hear that [ __ ] after hearing Tupac was shot in Las Vegas after you arrived in Las Vegas what was the first thing you did go see him go sit that was the first thing I did and I cried to myself as tear coming down it didn't look good I don't know what the [ __ ] I just didn't look good and yet I still thought he would survive I just knew he would survive huh some say he still might have but that's a very delicate question I don't know if I should bring that up because uh I had lung cancer I have one and a half lungs they took a bottom half of my lung I can't run the marathon I can't sing acapella but I'm alive Park had his lung taken from being shot I don't think it's up to anybody to decide whether someone should live an altered state that for someone to say he won't be himself let him go I wasn't at the hospital at that time yeah I don't think I would have said that okay and I I'm not trying to say you know that that's what the case that he might still have died but I don't think I would ever say let him go there's no [ __ ] way I would have said that no [ __ ] way I'd have taken that [ __ ] with half an arm half a long he still would have been Tupa he still would have been Tupa so basically you had nothing to do with the decision to take Tupac off of life support no they were resuscitating them a couple times you know it didn't look good I'm not saying he would have survived I'm just saying I wouldn't have muttered those words there's no way her sister and uh Fanny was in the room at the time with the doctor I was just coming back from the hotel like I told you earlier but I found this out later who's to say I don't know if I should have brought that up but it still pisses me off like I tried to tell you before I don't want to disparage that lady I swear to God I don't I think it's very important that you speak what is the truth and because the world has been speculating for so many years about what they thought happened what people told them people that weren't there once again the reason why I asked you this is because you were there and you can accurately speak on it based on fact not based on hearsay yeah what they said that Globe let's say that an interview that thing you have said that that's where I got it from okay how do you think I found out I didn't that's what she had said and athenia said it also because you said that you had to stop light yes I was coming back okay I was coming back okay to the hospital so when I heard that that kind of stuck in my crawl I was but I wasn't there how would you notify that Tupac wanted you to come see him at Daniel Moore prison I think it was Karen Karen Lee his publicist because I still thought he didn't want to see me I'm still on the Assumption a lot even though I went to Bellevue and he said later that he looked up and saw his image and he knew that I was a father we hadn't talked because he still suffered before I have gunshots on so he was just kind of in and out of the consciously we were glad to see me uh we were supposed to go back to the apartment when he left but uh someone told me that he would contact me later which I found out now probably with someone else and not him because we were elevator going up I get there and see so everything comes in in Clear View later when I see the reasons why you understand what I'm saying so um Terence said Park wants to see because I wasn't you know I figured I'm still losing he didn't want to see me can you see what I'm saying I'm still under that that's what they told me I had bum rushed myself over to the hospital to make sure I saw him so I did what I had to do and so when she said that as happy as the pig is [ __ ] I'm going to see my son he wants to see me that's the first time we had a chance to talk but then again we can't talk with this five six seven eight people in a small room you know we our first talk was in the weight room of Dana Moore or Clinton penitentiary and we would just sit there and talk about a lot of [ __ ] but we just thought we had fun playing Monopoly I took my wifey Brothers why we'd play Monopoly and the [ __ ] tried to cheat he tried to go pass goal and I never forget that and we all looked at him and say Park Eugene what the [ __ ] he said hey I'm in prison I laughed that's just a little how he is that's all uh he was so no he was a good guy I was happy I was happy and the happiest moments is when we would leave I'd be the last one to leave division room because they gonna strip search you three o'clock but we they tell you the guy everybody's leaving I'm mingling it took me 15 years to see this thing like now you're gonna tell me I gotta go at three and I would last thing I I love you boy and say I love you too pops [ __ ] I was happy in the other [ __ ] you couldn't tell me nothing bro you couldn't tell me nothing because for him to accept me after 15 years what I need you out for what I need you to tell me about my relationship with my son for him to tell me I got letters where he says well I'll show you later but I think that's very important because when I read the letter uh that was addressed to your brother Brock the things that he said in the bottom of the letter really told me about what he really wanted what his desires were despite what everybody else has been saying over the years you just shared that with me right and so I think it's very telling the letter you remember the part where he says tell my brothers and sisters to write me that part that's the part right there my brother he didn't know about them and he waited long enough yes and he wanted to be a family yeah exactly and so I'm sorry not to cut you off no no I want you to go ahead and go the kicker was after he died I had I think the one album that came out after he died we had it in a tape in a Boombox we would leave the Boombox was that the Makaveli album yes okay the tape was in it was at the airport I'm getting ready to fly back to Newark I get to the airport when you lose the sun sometimes tears just come down your eyes I'm talking to the clerk the airlines she said sir what's the problem I just told her who I was father Tupac Shakur she said well I'm going to upgrade you to First Class I was like wow okay thank you but that little consideration made me feel real good not that I'll fly first class that she thought so much of my son in my sorrow to do that but the point being as we're waiting in the important to board the plane somehow a feiny came off the escalator towards me said I could keep the Boombox but give me the tape I said about like I was going to publish it but I enjoyed listening to it and she took it and smiled and walked away the next thing I know I get papers that I'm dead because someone contact me Laura contacted me said you know you're dead I'm like excuse me because I had no attention of pursuing any type of legal thing I'm wanting my son I didn't see dollar signs I didn't see the potential of his wealth I'm sore that we lost a son and that bothered me so let me be clear this explains another question so basically you're saying that you were contacted by an attorney in regards to the probate situation that afini had filed with the courts yes and the attorney told you that on those probate papers that you were labeled as dead dead you have a part that says mother if you call your partner says father did similar to his birth certificate so when did the lawyer what did the lawyer how did the lawyer explain that to you well they said bill you know you have a right and I had no idea that I had it right yeah I I don't think of [ __ ] like that I don't know why I just don't maybe I should have been you know for my grandkids not for me but for my grandkids but I just didn't and he said that you uh have a right to have to stay that really won't have to say I didn't know nothing about the state but I didn't want to be dead either I didn't want to be listed as dead I'm tired of being dead you had me dead prior to us hooking up and now I'm dead again so it kind of pissed me off you understand yes and then I still didn't know that those lies were told to him about me you know I found this out a little later um it hurt it really hurt the whole situation hurt I think that's something that's never been revealed before because I think most people thought that you were somehow trying to come after Tupac's money for me at least this is new information that a lawyer had contacted you yeah and told you what did you I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off what did you tell me first time you talked to me you said I thought you were dead yeah you said that yeah you said you thought I was dead because everybody had been saying it and like I said once again and that was based on that I know you know from that perspective but here today on the order dialogue Mr Billy Garland is alive and well yeah I'm here yes indeed touching myself yes indeed yes indeed there's an infamous picture on the internet that was taken while you were visiting Tupac in prison and it's You Tupac Keisha Morris and what I believe to be your wife or girlfriend at that time but at the time explain to me uh what that day was like because everybody seemed happy in the photo we was happy we were just that better night the day he cheated at the Monopoly matter of fact for me you know I looked at the photo and it was one thing that struck me because I didn't pay attention to years later and if you notice he has a hand around my shoulder and uh I like that that really made me feel good because you always wondered was it true that he didn't want me in his life then when you find out that that shit's not true that he did want a father in his life and that he expressed that in a lot of his music a lot and then for you to carry that lie for you to perpetuate that lie for all those years for whatever reason for whatever reason is inexcusable to get up on the document he said well we thought it was legs then we thought it was this guy this guy and the one says well I always thought it was Billy Garland then I pop up on the screen just like I popped up in his life like Jasmine Garza he just popped up at my apartment yeah really get the [ __ ] out of here dumb [ __ ] excuse me I'm sorry I just that just like when I saw it it pissed me off yeah it's your feelings you have a right to feel the way you feel did you like Tupac's wife at the time Keisha Morris when you met her and do you think that Tupac should have stayed married to her under the doctrine of he who find it for good thing findeth a wife or vice versa I feel bad saying this they got married in prison people came to visit Park you'll see by the visiting list a lot of people different times but not everybody came all the time he kind of figured that if I had someone here I would get the [ __ ] out of a nine by six cell every day at nine o'clock guarantee because she would be in Dana more apartment they bought it in fact I gave her money could the company Interscope hadn't given him the money I said how you doing I ain't had no goddamn money you know to be supporting or nothing but that gave her like a hundred or so I just picked yeah she had a little apartment no furniture in it she was all right but she was young she was white eye I think she loved Tupa but I don't think Tupac you know knew what love was he never consummated that relationship that's why it was easier to get a null when he got out of prison but I do think I hate to try to diminish that relationship but I think it was a marriage made for convenience in terms of getting out of that sell at nine o'clock in the morning guarantee because if people come to visit you let's be honest I started out many a time going to visit them didn't get up there at 11 o'clock see anything [ __ ] happen first time I went to see him oh once again Karen calls me this is months after the quad shooting he was sentenced I didn't know if he wanted to see me Karen called me said Park want to see you I'll have you the biggest [ __ ] I rented a car I must have been doing a hundred on 87 going to Dana Moore I got a ticket I got it there 200 something dollars for Speed to see this guy because I wanted to see him so bad you don't know if you're going to get out that cell at nine o'clock unless you can guarantee someone's there you understand what I'm saying absolutely I'm not saying that's why he married her I ain't saying that I'm just saying Tad convenient to have someone there to make sure this happens you understand what I'm saying and I'm sorry to this girl I mean you know I haven't seen her since matter of fact I did see I saw a giant stadium and this was after the trial in the Feeney and she walked by me and cut her eyes at me I was shot I guess she had believed that so so you saying that you seen Keisha Morris had a giant no one of them black uh football teams you know uh oh [ __ ] another one I couldn't believe it wow well I guess people believe what they believe you know like you said I came out of the woodwork deadbeat day no doubt could very well have been deadbeat but it was a reason get all your facts together before you judge absolutely please yeah but when the narrative you know as well as I know when the narrative is pushed then that's just wonderful people exactly and and they can you know the judge believed her if I'd had all those things that I showed you the judge would have probably ruled 50 50. their lawyer big time New York lawyer I had not too big of a Time lawyer made it seem like I just popped up after Tupac died and wanted the money and I was like what about all the visits and all this and the lives and that that was my situation but nobody I never did an interview so nobody believed me nobody understood that this is really the first time what's this 27 years later I'm saying some things that I never said but I ain't taking this [ __ ] to the Grave I just ain't people need to know whether they believe it or not actually I don't give a [ __ ] excuse me I'm sorry kids might be watching this but I really don't give a [ __ ] because you believe stupid [ __ ] anyway you believe what you want to believe what I'm gonna say it and I'm gonna say the way I see it absolutely and this is the way I see and you're grown to grow too grown I appreciate that hey man I'm just happy I mean come on no matter what all the negative all the [ __ ] and all the other things that went along with this all the lies I'm still a father Tupac Shakur nobody can never take that [ __ ] away it's only one of me and whatever you want to believe you believe as long as he knew that's what makes me keep ticking keep going you understand absolutely as long as eating them absolutely and he knew so yeah after Tupac was shot at quad Studios and you went to Bellevue Hospital there's a rumor that biggie came into the hospital and you talked to him is that true and if so what did Biggie say yeah like I said earlier it was very very nice I guess he saw some other people walking up to me maybe because I looked just like park at that time and he maybe he knew but he walked up to me and said Mr Garland Tupac's father I could see that he said I'm very sorry and if there's anything I could do please let me know so that [ __ ] when I heard about them being involved in that I just I've been around okay I've done mistakes I've been around a lot of drama and I know nobody who does a hit goes to the hospital by the goddamn self to visit the person they just shout now they might go to the hospital mob style but they taking two or three [ __ ] with him you know what I'm saying he was there by himself just innocent that you want to be and it was just as nice as you want to be and I knew he had nothing to do I think Park knew that too I think they was feeding them that [ __ ] so with that being said did you ever get a chance to tell Tupac that biggie had came to the hospital and visited him I think I did yeah no and when I went to Dana Moore yeah I think I did but I don't think that was the conversation you know that we would really talk we were talking about so many other things his mother this and that how you doing pops and [ __ ] like that you need this and that now in light of that I got this in the back of my mind when he asked me do I need something that if I said I did then I would look like everything that they said I was coming out the woodwork looking for money I didn't need nothing but I couldn't use something you're giving away cars you know [ __ ] okay give me one but that wasn't on my mind no I don't need [ __ ] from you so I'm just glad to see you I might be the only [ __ ] who didn't take nothing from my son who didn't take nothing for myself so as to the biggie question you you think you did tell him that begins in passing yeah in passing I think he knew that that [ __ ] didn't really jump off to later on he started people started feeding them [ __ ] and [ __ ] then he got Suge Knight in his head bleeding that [ __ ] then that puffy and Suge Knight [ __ ] and then he's gonna be the Vanguard this is the way we are we like to lead so he gonna lead this he gonna be the first one out there talking smack against a [ __ ] and he didn't need to do that but it was convenient it sold records and the press in America fed off that so did the US government absolutely that's what they want divide and conquer yeah after speaking to affini at Bellevue Hospital at Dana Moore prison and in Las Vegas after Tupac was shot and fighting for his life how did it make you feel that she wanted you to take a DNA test after you sued the estate to prove that you were Tupac's father after acknowledging that you were Tupac's father and all of those other prior places before you took a DNA test this broke my heart I it broke my heart it really did I could not understand you and I know that's also you and I know that I'm the father of that boy and for you to insult me but I think that's one of her Lloyd but then again she's fighting for millions of dollars and I didn't realize that I didn't realize the significance of that I'm not looking at the money I'm just looking to tell the [ __ ] world that I'm Tupac Shakur's father you're looking on some other [ __ ] you're looking at this the legality and [ __ ] I'm not even looking at that all I thought I had to prove that I was his father the DNA test came back 99.999 positive that he is the father but you knew that you knew that for years you knew that from inception you knew that in the Black Panther Party when you brought them when we broke up and you saw I got married to Carol and you wanted maybe a little more time a little more from me and I did that and maybe that's what changed who knows why people do what they do I just know in all my years it still hurts you know what I'm saying when people do stupid [ __ ] and that's stupid [ __ ] a DNA test I got a picture where we're both 25 we look like twins you know what I'm saying how what part is you don't you know he don't look like you not for nothing I'm sorry but he don't look like you and you should know that it just happens sometimes that way yeah clock told me something broke my heart he said that when he was he said that uh he said pops you know he got kicked out the house yes he said I was uh he said that in Dear Mama 17 or something like that yeah because I I was uh the only one in the house that looked different and they used to make fun of me because I didn't look like them I was like you see in talking to you Delray I don't want to indict other people's but I still got to tell you what he told me I can't make this [ __ ] up so I'm telling you what he told me so that's what he told me and that's I believe him he was there yeah he was there that's what he told me and he wasn't really nothing until he started making money then he was the Golden Boy see now sounds like I'm the sour person putting down people but I don't want to do that I just want you to know what my son told me what I find to be true because I've seen some of the dealings that people have done and it's possible does this say it's possible yeah anything's plausible yeah exactly and like I said you know from you I'm here just doing an interview and I appreciate you uh uh giving me your time to be able to talk to you because I don't think that you talk this extensively to anybody from that perspective other than what you said that you did with the doctor series but they didn't really present that information yeah and so for me I like I said I'm just humbled and I'm here to listen to what you have to say I'm not here to judge I'm not here to make a Feeney look bad I'm not here to make you look good I'm just listening to basically the details as they were we all got flaws absolutely I have flaws I was [ __ ] up I wasn't in his life his reasons why put it I have flaws but don't think that someone else don't have flaws that's what I'm trying to say and true I told you more than I've told anybody on the planet before about some personal [ __ ] between me and Tupac okay but I'm telling you brother because I love you and you always been straight shoot and I've known you now about a year and pretty much you've been truthful and I I really appreciate truth and I appreciate you for appreciating me yeah it's it's reciprocal you know that ain't enough for that in the world yeah they just think people just don't however it hits you bad or good it's just say it it's the truth absolutely just say it absolutely well you got to hide you and hopefully you can the person whoever's listening and feels some way about it they can uh forgive you like you forgave them we all have flaws brother absolutely like we all flawed but I ain't lie I've never lied to him or offending you or anyone else I never said anything that wasn't true I might have did some [ __ ] up [ __ ] but I'd never lie and that's important why you gotta lie and that's important why what why are you gonna lie wait a lot she called me too before the trial I don't know I can't even speculate I thought it was to make a deal but I was so pissed uh um something would happen his cousin got killed in Montclair say his name Gaddafi Gaddafi right she came after the funeral okay I was going to go I didn't go but she called me I don't know the now in retrospect I'm not too sure why she called me but I was still pissed about that oh I brought it up why did you say that I was dead and that ended the conversation maybe she called me to make a deal maybe I should have made a deal maybe she wanted to say I'll give you 25 40 whatever I'm not sure because she never called me then she had Seth call me one day and said we're gonna send you uh one of Tupac suits hold on for the people that that don't because that was that was fast uh Phoenix had uh her daughter sexual call you one now okay I'll go send you a suit us too I mean might be a valuable on eBay today but at that time that wasn't on my mind brother assume but why would you do that I didn't know the conniving and the [ __ ] and you know I'm still [ __ ] dumbfounded by that you know because I always saw somebody like do you know when you see somebody like so and then they ain't that breaks your heart and you still hold on to the initial belief a lot of us do that was just a bump in the road maybe they are better maybe they are what you thought they were in the beginning but the more I see things the more I realize nothing because when I heard some things I mean she went on a talking spree and she talked about me like a dog I just could not believe it I mean talk about park that's why they got you here oh yeah he was [ __ ] he was a sparring bank then she went on for about it was on YouTube one of the things she was at a college book sign and something some [ __ ] broke my heart I'm like whoa you got the money why all that slander [ __ ] what's that about why make yourself feel better justify this or that I don't know I don't know and I feel bad right after Dear Mama because the world love Dear Mama everybody says oh that was beautiful I saw your dear Mom I saw her yeah she's beautiful but there's always something negative in a positive situation too so forgive me if I'm concentrating on that but that's how we got to this point absolutely that's how we got to me just being a driver absolutely or this or that or whatever that's how and I just maybe sprouting out too much [ __ ] because I'm pissed but I'm gonna Sprout it out yeah I I like I say once again I appreciate your honesty thank you I appreciate that were you in the Phoenix Shakur ever on a visit with Tupac at the same time as his mother and father while he was in the animal prison so you never he got mad at me Tupac got mad at you June 16th when I went up there again maybe in July on his birthday when you come see me on your birthday on his birthday yes yeah right I told him I said I think your mother was here was she I didn't really want to be there what am I going to say to you with her there what are she gonna say to me with you there what's the purpose most uncomfortable I'll never forget the first time we sat in a room together with her sitting in between me and pop it's like a buffalo waiting for him you know whatever was going to be said to me and him but I didn't know that in fact you know she had lied I didn't know that pretty I didn't know I didn't know she had lied to him I found that out much later very yeah very interesting that's where I am putting yourself in Tupac's frame of mind for everything that he thought at that time that it happened between him and Biggie as Tupac had alluded to on three different occasions that he had slept with Biggie's wife Faith Evans do you think that Tupac was wrong for sleeping with Biggie's wife or do you think it took two to tango I don't think you should do that I tell you did some stupid [ __ ] but that's just a stupid [ __ ] at him that's that Gemini [ __ ] and then he mad he mad at the East Coast like a [ __ ] mad so he gonna get back anyway he can't a little Jabs you're not we do but you know how that [ __ ] is by calling the [ __ ] [ __ ] well I [ __ ] your wife [ __ ] same [ __ ] you understand what I'm saying no I didn't like the video nice B I love the beat what the [ __ ] are you talking about sleeping with somebody's wife or who does that but that's part of the [ __ ] that he was in that's that environment that tough guy I'm so tough I could tell you I slept with your wife and if you did keep your mouth shut everybody [ __ ] was wrong with you why make things worse that's all I'm saying bro a lot of things that people do that we don't like my son me everybody so that was one of them that I didn't like I didn't like that record I didn't like that at all no so you basically you're saying you didn't like hit him up no I'd like to be but the content you up here man with words you tell them the truth about Society you breaking down the right and wrong of America you telling people how to go about being real because you were real then you're gonna stoop to that level that soap opera [ __ ] that ain't you and don't let dumb people take you there for what this commercial we got enough commercial [ __ ] I can name some names but I don't wanna well I will half the rappers in America a commercial watch TV watch the NBA game they sell everything with rat everything's black wrap but it's commercialized it's nothing substance it has nothing offers absolutely nothing and they make more money they [ __ ] made a record he made more money than Pock made in five years you know what I'm saying they got mansions and [ __ ] and it ain't the beat ain't [ __ ] the hook ain't [ __ ] the music ain't [ __ ] but they played on the radio over and over and over marketing you know about it I love this uh I really love I'm enjoying this conversation man I really appreciate it um at least publicly it didn't seem to bother biggie that uh Tupac had slept with his wife Faith Evans based on the fact that in the song Brooklyn's Finest biggie said if Faith had twins she'd probably have two pox get it two pox do you think Tupac and Biggie would have been able to reconcile their differences if they had both survived that's a tough one bro I don't know you tell the world you slept by with my wife I didn't know if I want to really hang with you for a little while you know we gotta let things simmer down so I don't think so I think aside from that they might have in time as they both matured you got to remember these are kids 25 24 there's a babies man I think about when I was 25 I thought I knew everything I realized now I didn't know Jack's [ __ ] I was a stupid [ __ ] a young dumb and full of calm you just think you know every [ __ ] thing and you don't know [ __ ] and I think when money cars and jewelry support that psyche that you do know something you know hey I got money nothing he's got I got gold chains and [ __ ] but you're a baby and you're stupid not everybody I'm just saying the youngins you know what I'm talking about and I can talk about them you never had to work for it even though you good basketball player good rapper but you really never really had to work for it you didn't do what your parents did to appreciate what you had because if you did maybe just maybe you might not buy a 200 million dollar [ __ ] house do you know how many 250 dollar thousand houses you can buy for the poor with 200 million dollar houses I don't mention no names but you know what I'm talking about okay he's got a billion but not for [ __ ] for nothing you don't have to do that you just we know you rich how much is a puck spoke on that too how much is a [ __ ] enough how many houses do you need you're speaking about Jay-Z okay it's okay I mean it's it's all over the news yeah but Jason's gonna be mad or pox father and [ __ ] watch him I love you Jay and you do a lot for people because my daughter loves you and every time I talk about you she brings you up you and Beyonce I love her too I think personally that um they deserve whatever they work for yeah I do too at the end of the day not for nothing yeah I'm just talking about me absolutely I look at that P I look at people in the street man I got no money but I give people money I see somebody struggling at a grocery store putting [ __ ] back no you buy that I give I buy a man and it ain't [ __ ] I don't think nothing about them Pat myself on the back like I did something glorious it's just helping someone out yes that's just helping someone out yeah so if you're in a position to do that then you should do that and they do that don't get me wrong my foundations black people they've done so much for black people they've done more than other people they're more than Michael Jordan Michael Jordan gives it a break for us I could break cross Red Cross don't give a [ __ ] about us right tax deductible people say it's giving it's charity he gives yeah but to who do you give who receives the benefit of your fruits of your labor absolutely and I think it should be the Grassroots so to me [ __ ] I'm putting somebody in the house don't give us a shack 150 000. I could buy a kazillion of them in the [ __ ] book say my name like God for the rest of their life because he bought me a house um you bring Michael Jordan up speaking of Michael Jordan when Tupac was alive Tupac made a statement in regards to Michael Jordan no kidding not helping out black kids and Tupac basically said if Michael Jordan would do the same thing that he did in the white neighborhoods with the white kids how much it would mean no doubt if he came over no doubt and gave that same energy I didn't know that to black kids I didn't know that yeah that's a that's an accident you told me something I didn't know yeah so so what do you think I agree with him 100 I'm not I mean Michael's great he had a great run he ain't better LeBron James but that's another subject okay but he rather sell sneakers not for nothing he won't speak up on issues he won't say that shit's wrong he definitely won't kneel down and shoot two cops in the ass who's beating up a black man on the side of the road he won't stand up and talk about George Floyd see what I'm saying he won't do [ __ ] that he can do because he's in that position nobody's gonna take your business being you say stuff that's why I love LeBron so much LeBron says [ __ ] Ron said [ __ ] you white folks don't like him let's be honest Mega people can't stand based on Fox shut up and dribble but he stands up and speaks on and still makes money still got Bookoo commercials everywhere and still making money but he does [ __ ] he stands up for people bro he has the schools his schools the college tuition just the social issue just to say something like that is wrong it's one thing with sharper and sharper says it's another thing with LeBron says it or Michael would have said it or Oprah you don't get me started okay these people would full cool money we're talking about billionaires yet we don't have one Bank black owned we don't have a school system black on we don't have a black owned Hospital we don't have a black owned major significant infrastructure for the black community by all the money that these billionaires are making we never had so many black people making money like they had think about it bro we got millionaires off the kazoo and what do they do we go from change to change I can't believe it you don't see uh you don't see them other people with them gold and diamonds I mean what we know you rich so why you gotta flaunt it like that I mean like you say they deserve it go ahead Floyd but my respect level just went down a little bit for your body there ain't nobody so it don't matter but you are somebody Tupac Let's be clear and and and you fought where most people haven't it wasn't about a dollar when you were Feeney and you guys were out there on the front line no you know fighting for for equal rights fighting for uh for women and all of those things so I think that is way more significant than when somebody dangles a cabinet in front of your face and said if you do this this is the reward yeah I know so I I think that's very important and that's significant in itself we had Health Care Centers we really helped people absolutely and to be honest with you I had police every time I had a van they knew who I was they would stop me they had the police detail to arrest black panthers in Jersey City and uh they would uh stop me every day ask me for license registration and I knew what they wanted it's a couple times a couple of them will put guns to your head [ __ ] in I guess they expected you to Flinch a cry and be scared [ __ ] you're gonna shoot me you're gonna shoot me I'm not giving you the satisfaction if you're gonna arrest me arrest me I'm not giving you the satisfaction you know who I am what I stand for and with all harassment and that's just the way it was so we came up to that yeah and that's my foundation and I still believe in that that you should help people you should help if you can help people you should that's all absolutely that's all absolutely I say LeBron James does it a lot of other stuff and I hope they do but they do give it's just that I don't see it I just don't see it thank you I know what it does though Takara she's a writer yeah great writer I've I've I've I've heard about 18 books bro she got 18 books 18 books and you could write her ass off well well speaking of books you're working on the book yes yes I think I should I got some stuff I could tell it's some things that happen in my life that would be very very interesting I mean not tremendously interesting just events that happen absolutely you know meet Muhammad Ali being security for uep nuke when he came to East Coast oh hold on you know let's pause because I was going to get to that that was one of the questions so since you went there so my life story brother why are you gonna do a book if you want to tell you everything no no no no this one question yeah did you did you personally know Huey P new yeah yeah I met him at the Philadelphia planetary convention we were all the chapters of the Black Panther Party came to Philadelphia we had it locked up uh it was a beautiful day and uh you were speaking Minister everybody was there somehow yui's car got blocked in it was weird just got blocked In Crowd was developing and so we had to move and we started walking maybe about five or six levels I just happened to be there with you wasn't pre-assigned it just happened we walked maybe about three or four blocks that is corn confused we don't know what to do but we just felt in danger because we heard death threats was coming Yuri's way so we didn't want to be stationary we didn't want to be out there while we find out who this other car is blocking his car so we get to the corner you know a black lady Joe Bob with her kids and the kid said Mommy that's European orgy she stopped and said why are you guys out here and we told them and she said come to my house I'll never forget this she took us to a house nice house she cooked for all of us about five of us they sent me back to uh tell the rest where he was and uh we all met back over there and that's how I met initially then after that we got to know one another you would just talk oh my God he would talk I'd be sitting in the chair you would be talking I'd wake up in the Sun be out and you wouldn't be upstairs sleeping yeah talk me to sleep that's how good he was very intelligent man right and he meant well but it was an honor so every time he came back east he would ask for me he would want me to be a security he spoke to uh 8 000 people at Princeton University I was in charge of security and uh he just told him he talked for about two hours and they listened so you know what you got to do against that he's he's he's in with our children right he's educating our children to the discrepancies of the society he's letting them know you understand what I'm saying he's showing them in one word why do you think of Phoenix Shakur told Tupac that his father was dead let's go I can't find no other answer except I got this because she was out of his life also just as he was coming up she was in rehab and doing all that other stuff you know with that crack and [ __ ] I was doing [ __ ] but it wasn't with that but I mean just just doing [ __ ] wasn't working selling a little bit of [ __ ] here and there you know what I'm saying I was out there too but it was different it wasn't like this [ __ ] here but I think it was money unfortunately maybe she just thought that I that she had to control that factor I don't know I don't want to say that I can't that's speculation uh that's the only thing I could think of is money why wouldn't you tell if he's a deadbeat if he's a no good download [ __ ] you would just say that's your daddy he's a Down Low no good [ __ ] he doesn't know he would just say that and then you let him decide but not to give him that option especially after he asks for it continually I don't know how you can look at that man and remember I'm getting see I'm getting an anti-rant [ __ ] and I don't want to do that how do you feel about new rappers comparing themselves to your son Tupac Shakur and calling themselves the next Tupac or using him to help bring attention to the project yeah it's just I don't because it's it's ridiculous you know let's be honest uh if you were on that level everybody would know it you understand they would know it instead of that small John that you have you have a little let's be honest you're you're categorized let's look what they have and you got to look like this you got to do this you got to be odd you've got to do this all women I love them but they show our women nothing but sex objectives if you look if you're a rapper you have to display skin unfortunately I feel this shouldn't be you should be able to get by on the Merit of your work but that's just America in the medium and how they want to represent us that one against everything Parks stood for he said he was going to stop calling people [ __ ] and [ __ ] Tupac told you that and then a [ __ ] put him in jail over a lot so that broke his heart see he kept getting his heart broken he kept getting hurt by people that he loved he cared for and that that'll change you bro somebody you trust absolutely or want a choice I want to support or want to fight for I want to die for betray you yeah the Loyalty um the camaraderie none of that's really the same anymore and then the biggest one the biggest [ __ ] I feel so bad I got to live the rest of my life realizing that maybe if I was a better father he might not have gotten that situation he might have had enough wisdom to know that this [ __ ] ain't nothing but a scavenger but he looked up to him like a father then to find out a year eight months later that checked them out all of his money that's the final betrayal so his whole life he's had betrayals me for not being there his mother for lying about him and his father the people in his life the women yeah getting robbed getting shot going to jail for a lot all this is people that he loved black people and they all betrayed him I don't think nobody's ever really focused on this people don't understand when you just said that a lot of people don't understand that Tupac was shot twice in two years who does that how does that make you feel to even know that to Rich mom and I'm there every time in the hospital after my son got hot LED in his soul nine times nine goddamn bullets it's still this [ __ ] didn't die right away I said he's a strong black man but it wasn't fair it wasn't right for what what did he die for what did he die for there lies the question and that's the one everybody's trying to figure out and as far as I could see the best they can go with is a [ __ ] death Roma Daddy and I refuse to let that slide that ain't why my son died it wasn't for no death for medallion but I got no proof and I can't say but I we know it wasn't that I could say I think the Tupac died because he was an honorable individual and he thought that that honor meant something because to him it meant something because it was the example that he was showing oh yeah growing up yeah from the panther party yeah you know so she did teach him a lot about that I think I think he saw that but he also had that Gene he had that right from wrong you know you could just see [ __ ] it's out there bro you could see that stopping a black man and doing this it ain't their hard division it's just and so people react to it some people don't react certain white people say well he shouldn't have been he should have complied so what kind of reality is that [ __ ] what do you mean complied how do you comply when you're unarmed my mother got a gun on you shooting at you what the [ __ ] are you talking about you should have complied different perspectives exactly yeah but like to your point he was honorable and there was no honor there's no honor in that game there's no honor in the rap game there's no honor in society we think it is yeah you know and everything that he leached on to everything that he attached himself to he thought that they would be they would reciprocate that honor that they would be real it's realistic yes and his realness was up yeah yeah damn illness is up here and everybody was looking for something everybody looking for that something and we know what that is unfortunate yes sir yeah unfortunately it's sad thank you for that I appreciate that I got a couple more questions this one right here is is I think significant when Afeni Shakur was pregnant with Tupac Shakur did she know that she was pregnant by you yeah you didn't eat enough to go no farther yes definitely I throw up a belly we we knew we knew we agitated probably the date that we could see if we would we would be in certain locations that I would uh she would have a talking engagement maybe in Connecticut and they knew we were together so I'm from Jersey they would hook it up before I'd be charging the logistics either airfare or either withdrawal Connecticut so I drive her up there you know because she tried that's the mother of my child I'd rather be with her in Connecticut and have someone else up there I think I could watch over better so when you say her in Connecticut she was pregnant while you were taking her to Connecticut I am sure okay yeah okay speaking engagement okay which she had up there and this would probably happen yeah she wasn't like no but it probably happened right before they got the exactly or for the Panthers okay which was the stupidest [ __ ] in the world right right Ramen flower gardens and just you should see the targets they quick that was just go and tell that was just [ __ ] to get the [ __ ] off the street and that's what they did they bum wrestled in the middle of night they shoot us through our walls they arrest you they thought that they could put enough of us in jail that it would bankrupt bankrupt us in other words you're gonna pay 300 000 to get them out okay go ahead and pay we'll hold the trial up you won't get the money back and you'll be bankrupt that's what they do they just did so many things I was involved with communication like I said we had the papers that was our Lifeline you'd be surprised how many Panther papers we sold throughout the country but for the East Coast they came in all the airports we go to any airport this before terrorist attacks so you can drive your bus or you know your van onto the torment and the FBI would take uh papers and wet them up they would burn them I'm talking about devious [ __ ] they would take our breakfast programs we would have cases to Orange oranges and they would inject them with [ __ ] that would give our kids diarrhea what kind of low life [ __ ] is that wow what happens oh no I'm not going to send my kid back to the breakfast program last time he was there he got sick right you see the logic right that they employed that's how low life they were that's the level we were so all this other [ __ ] is just it ain't nothing it ain't nothing bro what was your reaction when you heard the lyrics to Dear Mama particularly where Tupac says no love for my daddy because the coward wasn't there he passed away and I didn't cry because my anger wouldn't let me feel for strength yeah and I knew at first I was upset because I'm trying to see you and you know but then it hit me but when I did and so you really didn't know me because if you would have known me you would have known that that I wasn't dead you see what I'm saying so I knew there that uh someone had lied to him from that from that point and so later on when I found out that someone did lie to him that saw me perfectly good sense I understood it totally so when I hear it now it I laugh I still love the [ __ ] record of me I love it I love it I do I think it's beautiful I think it's absolutely beautiful I love all of his music though I listen to his music daily every freaking day and I like it and then it hits me he's my son you see what I'm saying so it's a twin thing there I don't say that and that's what the difference between everybody else everybody sees them is this when I was always around them he's my son here Tupac I mean he's Tupac but he ain't that icon then I look at the videos and where he goes and I see him with the autographs and I said that's a different world he could never be uh uh uh an individual that could relax in society like he said he wanted to he said Pops I want to go home and watch a TV but I know I can't he would tell me to say last movie he saw was uh what's that movie uh mental block Tom Hanks Forrest Gump he saw that with his wife we talked about it in prison so so when he watched Forrest Gump he was no he fell up before he went to prison okay yeah he said I liked it possible she didn't like it I said I liked it too we started talking about it and every time now I see that movie I think about that boy it's really amazing that was the last movie he ever saw wow yeah four is gone ain't that nothing yeah that's that's that's weird right yeah it's just weird [ __ ] it is he said I just like to sit on the couch eat sunflowers he cool out for a little while smoked some weed but he gets caught up I'm Tupa just hit the bars let's do this let's do that who wouldn't want to do that everywhere you go people look at your crowds people draw unto you right sign in autographed by and use this buying you that it's a whirlwind brother and you're gonna get caught up in it and he did that's true yeah that's true he said he was caught up he said as much he was yeah he said he was caught up he said he was gonna stop it but he got with the wrong people on the wrong Coast to stop it there's a different world out there bro I lived out there as a kid I lived in North Hollywood my mother died when I was six uh illegal abortion she got uh scraped by the midwife uh everything seemed fine found out my mother started bleeding she found out that it was a twin so when she scraped the first one out the second one got Punchy so she's got a punch it child then her stomach bleeding to death and instead of her going to the hospital she didn't want to Dime out the Midwife until this day I was six years old I wish I knew 991 was available because I had no idea my mother was going to die from an illegal abortion but uh uh unfortunately when Tupac and yourself became reacquainted he was going to court for that Court case involving Ayanna Jackson did you ever talk to Tupac about that case and if you did what did he say no I never did I was just getting back to normal I went to there I went to the court one time and when I came out the uh his Publishers carrying legal surrounded by Pub by uh reporters I was standing in the background and uh it was uh it was it was a shame that he could be held accountable uh for this and I heard that the judge Fitzgerald was the brother-in-law the Rudy Giuliani so the fix was it from the get-go I never knew that yeah he was going to the Joy it's open brother the last time you heard a [ __ ] went to jail for groping you got a president that says I grabbed him by the [ __ ] he ain't in jail yet [ __ ] out of here the prosecution in Tupac's case in New York overstacked the charges against Tupac in hopes that Tupac would be forced to take a plea bargain the fact that Tupac took her to trial and left it in the hands of the jury says what to you about your son yeah I don't know you know I never thought of it from that level but I know I wouldn't have taken a deal and so I'm sure I mean who wants to copter something that you feel you're innocent because he didn't even grow but he left he went in the other room he got a massage and fell asleep he thought she was there for them but she letting all the other guys grow and do this when I don't want to get to then I'll be in court but it was some other [ __ ] that went on you understand and it wasn't the way they pretended but the cops are going to run with it all you need is a D.A to indict now you got to prove you didn't do what she said you did and that's the hardest thing in the world is to prove against what a woman said you did to her that's pretty a no-win situation unless you got witnesses and all the witnesses Jack and that's the betrayed him they betrayed him big the automotive was up there they all left and then they left the [ __ ] guns up there who does that hey Pop please coming but we're gonna leave these guns here so you take that breath the [ __ ] out of here he's the only one that goes to jail what's that tell you it speaks a lot like I said once again the the Loyalty The camaraderie and the trust breaks his heart yeah I think that's where the bitterness started to come from there it's bitterness towards [ __ ] and he would express it so maybe the wrong way but you can understand how it Stacks up absolutely absolutely Tupac was upset with biggie because he released a song called who shot you while Tupac was in prison after Tupac was shot at quad Studios and sent in a sentence in that case involving Ayanna Jackson do you think Tupac anger was justified in the song hit him up after he was released from prison and what do you think about the song hit him up yeah I didn't like that either but uh they were both going back and forth with each other so Child's Play bro that's silly both of them are silly silly but I think also a biggie didn't really [ __ ] that's a lot to do with his uh you know the company and [ __ ] just like pop didn't release a lot of [ __ ] a lot to do with chill you see what I'm saying so he hit me let's hit him back you know but then it leads to other [ __ ] it leads to the foundation that somebody can get killed so people think that uh uh uh biggie was killed by some gang member because of the fact that uh he might have had something to do with big epox kill it's absurd you know but that's what they want that's what they got because if you ask the majority of people some of them still wouldn't even know uh why Biggie got killed uh the fact that Tupac didn't snitch on biggie about the guns that were found in his hotel rooms says to you as Tupac's father what about Tupac's character oh yeah yeah he wasn't he never time nobody yeah her father's thing with you got mad you get mad at him [ __ ] but you never heard him say you never heard him name the people that was in that room even though some of them were charged not all of them you never heard that he spoke on Haitian Jack in the record but you know what the [ __ ] that's everybody knows that uh he just thought that in fact you know how you believe in a system that you think is going to work so if you didn't do something you think I won't get punished for it you understand what I'm saying even as a child yeah my mama said well if I didn't do it I ain't gonna be fine but how many times you get punished for something that somebody else did and you still took the way Tony did it I didn't do it right he didn't do that he wouldn't do that that wasn't his nature it wasn't his nature so it's detriment she was [ __ ] detriment sometimes I wish she had he's too nice he was too nice and a vicious nasty [ __ ] world all he wanted to do was relay this message all he wanted to do was relate to people all he wanted to do was speak the truth amazing man I didn't do nothing too do you think Suge Knight was a good or bad influence on Tupac's life and career might have been the worst thing he ever did to sign with Death law and I heard from some people uh that uh he was really just the front he really didn't put the money up that I heard that was into scope and [ __ ] that put the money up and it made it look like he saved Tupac but if you dangle me a roping him I'm drowning I'm grabbing the [ __ ] rope I don't give a [ __ ] who would belongs to let's be honest you're gonna get me out of this hell hole because it was a hell well I went up there for those country bunking looking [ __ ] with that [ __ ] worst gang I ever saw Dana Moore worst [ __ ] place I've ever seen and they used to [ __ ] with them they used to threaten them you ain't [ __ ] you ain't no star here why nobody coming to see you and then when Madonna would come they'd be like gawking and all looking but in their heart they pissed at him because she coming to see you and you can't even get a autograph a guard so they're gonna [ __ ] with you when you go back but she never came to see him did she I think he she was supposed to she was supposed to and but she did but yeah but that whole anticipation of the moment but she didn't come see you yeah and they would test them and they would I think they were testing them to see if there would be some response so they could do something cool I talked to uh the ref you were the one who called Al Sharpton to let Al Sharpton know that Tupac was receiving threats exactly in prison I own to this day elaborate on that please I called him and he met me in Fort Lee New Jersey at a restaurant [Music] me and my wife were eating Al came in of course they knew who he was they looked at him guess what he ordered slice of watermelon I thought that was so cool you know how they say [ __ ] like watermelon and they was all white people staring at him I guess he just wanted to shove it in their face he ordered a slice of watermelon I said go Al anyway I said could you possibly um you know go uh up to Dana Moore and speak to the ward in hopes that um my son's safety would be guaranteed went up the next day I thought that was I just love that he's all he'll always be my hero talk to the warden Warden talked to his lieutenants and captains he said pops when I went to visit Tupac made it pops I don't know what you did but the warden was coming by my cell every 45 minutes saying are you all right any problems lieutenants and captions was coming by and saying you all right any problems I don't know what he said to him but it must have been enough to put the fear in them that they weren't going to let this goon employees uh intimidate them and hurt them and he thanked me before he said thanks pops I'll never forget it I was happy though I I oh I still owe uh that man or something rubbing out short I own something in the Dear Mama documentary a Tupac's Auntie Gloria said that affini told her she didn't know who Tupac's father was when was the first time you found out that the baby that two that a feeling she'll call was carrying was yours when he was born everybody knew he was coming up to me in the panther office we all know yeah immediately there was no question there was no question until Tupac became famous and then there was a problem and then after he died there was a problem but in between famous and before he died I was the father in good standing me and her was crying and bawling in the same room we were a lot of serious uh sit downs and meetings together we were at that hospital together we had Danny Moore but we weren't together but I visited him the same amount of time she did so that's a lot of people visited them they were very it was it was it was it was good I guess that helped his spirit so I'm glad they did do you think that Tupac would have turned out different or maybe still be alive if you had an opportunity to be in this life like a normal father yeah but what he had been too far people say well told me was that maybe he did better he'd survived but would he have been himself would he have been that individual that spirit who's to say I mean who's to really say I wish I was don't get me wrong but I'd rather have him alive than famous [Music] think about that he's known throughout the world so why should my selfish yes do you understand what I'm saying in terms of that absolutely I have to deal with this every day you know that question yeah exactly if I was if if Shoulda Coulda Woulda if I yeah it it vexes me like Prince Tupac didn't have a will and as a consequence everything had to go through probate court since you were his father and you were still living how come you weren't part of that process uh could she put on the paper that I was dead so now I had to prove that I was alive okay now then go ahead and prove that you're his father once that was done okay now go ahead California has something that's not only you have to be his father you have to be show some support through his upbringing you just can't be as well so now go ahead and prove that you supported him without all the mitigating circumstances that he would lie to kept away from me and all that other [ __ ] but that's how that ended and uh I had had some issues health issues and just had a major operation we had just lost the case but we were appealing and they offered a certain amount of money and I'm laid up this set you know when it was never about the money with me so I took that deal substantial and I bought a house you know but lived pretty well but things happen it would never been what it should have been but now I look at it now I almost kind of like what happened the monies in other people's hands it's not in the foundation like Prince like Michael it's just in other people's hand and it makes you wonder what the hell is that about you know yeah what the hell is that about speaking of that uh just recently Tupac system uh filed a lawsuit against the estate uh mainly the executive the estate Tom Wiley basically alleging that uh he had committed fraud and was uh misappropriating funds if you will as the father of Tupac who you accepted the deal involved in that situation with affini how does that make you feel terrible they're just it's ridiculous should be in the family the money should be in family it really should it just should be and such a way shouldn't have to fight this fight no she shouldn't not at all I think I'd have fought harder if I knew this was going to happen this end result think about it you know what I'm saying I don't know what happened I don't know how y'all lost I don't know how y'all let that happen I had nothing to do with it nothing I could have said you know who called me TMZ called me wanted the day of Fame he died wanted to know if I was going to challenge these state I swear to God I'm sad I love defeating I'm mourning her I wasn't thinking about that I probably had it right I probably could have made a little damage I mean it's a good settlement but I wouldn't still think about that never think about money and I should to the detriment of my grandchildren you know I'm all right I ain't rich but can do what I want to do can go where I want to go could eat what I want to eat I'm all right I'd like to be better don't get me wrong I play to pick it now and then you know [ __ ] but I'm just saying if I knew it was going to end up like that I think I might have thought harder you know there's just so much deception in the world I don't know how they got that I don't know how that ended up in the hands of a Caucasian man I have to understand how did y'all let that happen how'd you and what happened to the husbands the so-called husband where's his money where's his name you know what they do to get three four five million dollars go away same there give them money maybe sixteen thousand many Tupac died Fannie went to the record company and they was paying us sixteen thousand dollars a month a week I'm sorry which was a lot of money I'm in New Jersey crying like a [ __ ] drinking as much Hennessy this body can take I drunk so much energy I was so sad because I was just gotten back to see my son I just gotten together with him and then for this to happen oh remember I told you about the airport athenia approached me took the tape out of the boombox she told me that Park had planned for that November that Thanksgiving to have all his siblings the ones that he wrote about in the letter all of them up in L.A for Thanksgiving dinner I thought that was interesting and she told me to say how's what I know I'm telling you right that might have been the start of something good that just this might have been a start and this Tupac had told her that yes so that confirms basically what he was saying in the letter yes exactly okay yeah yeah he didn't know he didn't know he had a grandmother he didn't know he had a father uh his father he didn't know he had a grandfather he didn't know he had a grandmother he didn't know he had uncles we had something they all gone to between you and I yeah I might be the oldest one in my father mother grandparents uncles aunts I just lost my sister I lost my daughter I lost my brother I lost my other brother I lost her son I lost the daughter my condolences to your daughter who you just lost recently yeah two months ago maybe the artist one or more yeah firstborn daughter she was 49 Nika Jerry she was uh producer for General Hospital for years nobody knew that yeah no she didn't want anything I mean I mean that's Tupac's older sister yes Tupac no yummy sister Tupac youngest sister yeah the boys were always older was a potential in general General Hospital yeah Landon Malik and then Tupac then Nika then Takira then Billy Jr that's the symbol as you sit here on this couch as we do this interview what would you like people to remember Billy Garland the father of Tupac Shakur as at the end of his life very interesting of My Sacrifice what I wanted to do and for my people I gave up a promising career playing basketball going to college to be in the Black Panther Party I don't regret it for one moment I went from bringing being out on half court of Madison Square Garden for being Allstate New Jersey he brought all the players out and they bring you a half court and at the basketball game Clyde Frazier Willis read all them they give you an award and then after that you go have dinner with the Knicks I loved it okay but that with what I was about and what about planning on doing I gave it up because I just didn't like Injustice and I think I would want them to remember that I just don't I still talk about it but I got a small audience Facebook Instagram anything that goes down you said I speak on it people say well why are you so upset I just hate to see [ __ ] like that it breaks my [ __ ] heart why you gotta shoot up bro in the back for nothing you know why you gotta do that why you gotta do this and it keeps getting done and it just worse and worse and it bothers me my wife tells me I should not my wife Alex sweetest girl saved my life without her I don't think I'd be [ __ ] I met her at a very late age at 50. beautiful woman she is I I've actually seen photos of you with her yeah that's my girl uh uh but uh I don't know it's just crazy bro I think I'd have told you too much man they're gonna come after me look the the the government hey look don't don't get Tupac gonna be don't get paranoided in two months ain't too much you could do for me I had a couple cancers I'm survival I got COPD I my knees kill me from playing basketball but I keep taking and I'm gonna keep going so it ain't too much you could do what you gonna do what the [ __ ] just when I was young what the [ __ ] can you do you kill me I ain't keeping quiet till the day I die I'm always going to speak the truth right or wrong if it's wrong let's debate it we can talk but if it's right let's talk about that let's not just Shuffle It On The Rock like [ __ ] didn't happen absolutely like it just didn't happen absolutely how do you feel about Affinity Shakur wanting to take Tupac off life support and did you as his father have any say in that I wasn't there now you can ask another question would I have done it and I could say no so let me let me rephrase it then um if it were up to you and seeing Tupac Shakur in the condition that he was in in Las Vegas in a coma uh to take him off a life support would you have taken them off life support to me man see I'm just cut a little different to me a little something is better than nothing and death is nothing just nothing left after death there's no Tupa so I'd rather had a quarter a half or third a Tupac he still would have been Tupa so he can't rap if I could write he can act they say it's hard stuff they brought him back they said it stopped again they brought him back man I'd have made the [ __ ] work on that a hundred a hundred times if you could do that you ever watch the movies that just keep popping just keep popping I don't give a [ __ ] please now I don't know it's just the way I am that's just the way I am bro I would not I have I'm not questioning her uh uh judgment and that like I said I wasn't there maybe she saw something I didn't see I was coming back to the hospital that's 15 [ __ ] minutes if I would have been there maybe we would had a different discussion on it yeah as Tupac's father did you have any say so and Tupac being cremated no not one thing was invited to the event not at all I was going to bump wrote you I was going to take my his two brothers which are both six two and we all gonna go to it and just bum rush it yeah they all look like I don't know if you've seen them they look just like them we weren't even invited so we started then unfortunately and I don't know how we went from mourning our son in that room in the Golden Nugget on September 13 1999. 90s 1996 I'm sorry I said to not existing how did that go how did that work what caused that what was the reason for that why would you do that and there's only one conclusion I can come it was selfishness and money thank you thank you Mr Garland I appreciate it yeah I appreciate saying some things to you that I haven't said in a long time I don't know how they came out and I'm sorry no no I think no no I think I think to the country I think you being you is the best things you can be if you came in here and tried to get politically correct answers try to say all the things that you needed to say some soft [ __ ] and try to to do all of that I think it would come across as disingenuous I think I can see a lot of that fire that Tupac had in him that possibly came from you and just how you know um from from what I've seen and and the things that I experienced um yeah but like I said more importantly William Garland the father of Tupac Shakur thank you for uh giving me your time thanking you for being here on the art of dialogue I appreciate you and uh wish you nothing but the best thank you brother I enjoyed the talking to you you you're a pleasure you always been you've been on the phone when you used to beg me to do this [ __ ] interview and I kept saying no [ __ ] because everybody lies you know and every you know what I'm saying I told you that before right now I've done so many and uh whatever you know people can believe it if they want if I'm 74. I don't give a [ __ ] you know whether they believe it or not if you do if you don't yeah that's up to you I don't set it now if I walk out there I get hit by a car leash you got proof that I said some [ __ ] whether they believe it or not we got it on tape I don't think you're gonna get hit by a guy I got grandkids but like I said um I like I appreciate it like I appreciate your time and everything that you um um one more thing did you know what side of Chicago yeah you wanted to let me [ __ ] uh she was fine she was very beautiful young lady okay let's say that in the panther party so so so hold on so basically what she was about to say was you wanted to she was a beautiful brother she was absolutely stunning politically that you just said that and that's where my mind jumped and I still say that when I think of him right but I don't want to diminish the political context I'm sorry no no I mean I mean she was abusive alone so yeah and I know the minister of information came and I think we about to do something but he somehow he got involved because there wasn't no Norms it wasn't no uh uh a neighborhood uh you go with her that night and and you can't go with nobody else the next night we will face life and death okay whoever you wanted to sleep with that night you slept with and often it wasn't the orgy don't get me wrong but it was it was Mutual Mutual absolutely just relieving sexual desires I don't love you wearing on the movies we ain't going out to dinner we just even sexual desires wow and it was a beautiful thing it was the purest because there was no ambiguity there was no lies there was just true [ __ ] nobody had to lie to each other about anything it just what it was it's a very natural thing right she was fine I think much I think her Grandeur became bigger how much she left when they broke her out when she became in Cuba because she wasn't uh you know I'm not trying to diminish her but she she wasn't a major figure prior to that state trooper thing that happened on the highway okay gotcha you know what I'm saying yeah and the publicity of that kind of blew that out of proportion and and then she deserved to be free not for nothing I know the all the pieces unions probably ate that but well [ __ ] just get out the car stop popping at you maybe you should pop back yeah and that's what happened I just you know I'm not diminishing the truth no no absolutely but that's what happened absolutely didn't drive down the turnpike looking to kill state troopers who do that who does that right think about that so I'm just saying that that the day hater [Music] she's the devil but she's just a revolutionary woman absolutely I I admired her and I I still admire her for her struggle and what she's doing and how she's holding out I wish she can come back to this country and clear her name but I doubt it they would never let her they'd have to uh own up to every uh lie that they've told the world right you see what I'm saying yeah they're not gonna do that they're not gonna do that absolutely matulu Shakur just released from prison 30 some odd years what are your thoughts I'm glad but they released because he said I heard very sick I I wish the brother no it will I just heard you said that's why that's what they do yeah they don't be responsible yeah you're deaf but but you overall I have nothing but love and good feeling I'm glad he's absolutely [ __ ] hell hole yes sir I'm glad he got up that help he's a good brother and he was there for my son when I wasn't so I respect him and I love them let's let's applaud that absolutely nothing once long time ago so you say you met him once yeah I think it was ever born inside I used to go visit Park up there over there by Yankee Stadium he was a little guy um wish I'd visit them more but that's on me I'll have to uh carry that around you know but uh that's what you do when you're old you know carry around your mistakes

Channel: The Art Of Dialogue

Views: 1,141,474

Keywords: 2pac, tupac, tupac shakur, billy garland, afeni shakur, tupac dad, tupac father, tupac biological dad, 2pac biological father, 2pac dad, 2pac father, mutulu shakur, assata shakur

Id: cTnbcEYkujs

Length: 161min 45sec (9705 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 08 2023