(high intensity techno music) - Welcome to part two, we're talking about the brand new BRZ. We've already done the GR 86. So if you want details on that, check it out because they are almost
identical in most ways, but the exception of
individual personalization for the brands, the exterior, the front, and the rear is different.
However, aerodynamically, they are both equally impressive compared to anything else
in their price point. And really this is one of
the cheapest performance cars or cheapest sports cars on the planet that is driver centric. So when you get on the
inside compared to the GR 86, this is the cheaper trim level, which they call premium here and Toyota calls their
upper trim level premium. So you get the premium, which is the cheap one and the limited on the Subaru. So what does that mean?
Well, look at the doors. You have this fabric that looks like it's out of my grandpa's lawn chair. You have pleather on the door cards, instead of all, Cantara,
the seats are all fabric. Although they breathe way
better than the Alcantara seats, and they feel super grippy. They're going to be great
in the winter, but they, (Mark laughs) you're not going to be
impressed by the way they look. But it's one of the most functional, most purposeful interior layouts
for driving and existence. There is zero (beep) in here, and I'm not kidding you. Everything is set up. So you're
not distracted from the road and the enjoyment factor.
There are some things that I don't like, and I
said this on the 86 video, there's some Lexus in this, to this, like the RC, the dashboard upper part is very reminiscent of that. And they've carried over these horrible digital turn
signals. They have no D-Tan. (turn signal clicking) They don't click in a place,
so I'm constantly hitting it. And then, I forget that
I clicked it all the way. And then you got to click it back. It's just the stupidest thing. The only thing I can think
that they put it here for is for tuners that want to use this as some type of map selector switch. I don't know. Everything else feels and looks good. The dual zone, climate controls, all those buttons are simple. The shifter, although this is an automatic, it still has a great clicky
mechanical feel to it. You have a (parking break groaning) manual parking brake here still. The sport and dry mode
selectors are basic. Everything is as simple as you can possibly get, including the gauge cluster. Everything is super readable. The infotainment is very basic. It's way better than the
last gen, easy to use. However, you still can't defeat
the fake engine noise here. You have to go to the dealership, or tune it out or code it out. And the audio system, or at least the base audio system in here, is not good. And I know you're not
expecting great things, but it really tests poorly.
And it doesn't sound the best. The only thing you can do is turn off all of the EQ effects, all the special equalizer
effects and get it neutralized. It sounds way better, that way. In the glove box, there's some special switch here for you. So you can change between your summer and winter tire modes for pressures. And that might be helpful
if you're switching from track tires or wheels as well. Everything else is the same as the GR 86. So, I'm not going to
run it into the ground because there's some technical differences between the cars that
we're going to cover now. (high intensity techno music) It's about time. Back
under the Subaru BRZ. There there's some differences
from the BRZ to the GR 86, not completely apparent on the surface, aside from two things,
which we'll point out, but tell me, what is
Subaru's game plan here? - [Jack] The BRZ has a
younger buying demographic than the GR 86, despite
originally being more money. And in this car's case, more people use the BRZ as
a single family vehicle, or it's their only cars, is basically what I'm getting at. Versus the GR 86. So, when Subaru was designing this car, they prioritize making
it a better daily driver, a better all around cars,
where they decrease NVH. Made a little bit more
livable inside the cabin. They also did their best to make this a little
bit more approachable. And that was the design philosophy and tuning philosophy behind this car. So essentially it has
higher speed stability, meaning it's less prone to oversteer. And they baked in more safety features in this car from the get-go. And they've also gone as far as, and this is universal of this vehicle. The GR 86 is the same way. Due to their design
improvements, they also lowered the center of gravity by doing some subtle things. Like moving the seats closer together, lowering the hood, or sorry, the roof of this car and the way they mount the motor as well. The whole CG of this vehicle is reduced by four millimeters, which isn't a lot, but it is. - [Mark] Yeah. One can argue - [Jack] Yeah, that is something. - [Mark] What is that going to do? I can lower the center
of gravity by packing on about 250 pounds too, so. (Jack laughing) I mean, it's all really what this is. It's about making subtle
improvements to the body. And some of it's probably packaging, that just happens to make
those improvements for them. But what else do we have, Jack? - [Jack] So in the front, and this is the big thing.
When you are looking at these cars right away, you're going to notice this car has an aluminum set of front knuckles, where the Toyota has steel, and it is actually more noticeable than we originally thought. - [Mark] Well, It's not a big piece. And that's what I was saying in the GR 86. If you're somebody that
buys a Toyota product, you could literally buy this
and just swap the knuckle out. You know, it's easy to do. And again, this is to reduce on sprung mass. - [Jack] Yes - [Mark] It's a little bit lighter. It's supposed to be stronger, maybe, arguably, who knows. But I mean, it's such a small piece. - [Jack] And then in the front, you also have a different
style front sway bar. - [Mark] Mm hmm - So in the GR 86, you
have an 18 millimeter solid front sway bar, where in this car, you have an 18.3 hollow front sway bar. - [Mark] 18.6. Don't cheat me on inches! - [Jack] It is 18.3 millimeters. - Oh my God, this guy is a genius! - Yes. - See, I'm always trying to
pack on a couple extra inches. (Jack laughs) And you're trying
to take them away from me, but, okay. So, what does that do? - So because you have a
larger front sway bar, you have, theoretically,
less front mechanical grip. What'll introduce a little
bit more under serum. They've also reduced the size
of the solid rear sway bar. And obviously the mounting
location is also different, from 15 millimeters to 14 millimeters. - [Mark] um hm - [Jack] And now it is body mounted versus a rear sub frame mount. - [Mark] Well, we could argue that because when you look at the two bars, so the sub frame is different because there's a welded on
bracket for the sway bar on the GR 86. This does not have that welded on bracket. It has a completely
separate piece to mount. The sway bar mount is forward facing. - [Jack] Mm hmm - [Mark] The 86 is rearward facing. And then you have a brace that's here on this one that you don't get on the 86 and Subaru claims that they did it, mounted it this way, because that's how they
do it on their other cars with the Subaru global platform. That's how they do it going forward. So, they just carried it over here. - [Jack] Like we saw
in our Forester video. - [Mark] Yes. Although this is not on
the Subaru global platform. They took bits and pieces
of it from the improvements that they got from all of that, to here. - [Jack] Oh, so you have
different damper tuning, and they did not get into specifics, but they did talk about spring rates. The front spring rate
in the BRZ is higher, and the rear spring rate is lower. - [Mark] And 10 to 1 every single year, this is going to change again and again, because they're constantly retuning. They might even get a
different supplier where the spring rates change on them. (Jack laughs) So, these are small minute
numbers that are going to be not noticeable to anybody, unless you're doing back to back lapping where you're timing it. - [Jack] On, in similar
days of similar weather and on top of that, as well, they have even more minor
changes to EPS tuning for the BRZ versus the 86. And supposedly, they have
different engine tuning. And we dynoed this car. And I will acknowledge
it's not apples to apples. It's not the same day.
This is an automatic. - [Mark] but it is the same temperature and almost the same humidity - [Jack] Yes. - [Mark] running the same shell, 93 octane gas with
minimal ethanol content. And we got complaints on the 86 that, we faked it. They did the dyno wrong. The dynos broken. And this was at King Motor Sports, - [Jack] Again. - [Mark] tuning cars all the time. And they'd been tuning for 57 years. They've been around. And just because it's not in California, doesn't mean it's not true. - [Jack] Yeah. - [Mark] This made the identical torque, (Jack laughs) - [Mark] Which is
impressive for an automatic. - [Jack] For an automatic, yes. And it made, after some
of the heat soaks set in like we did for the manual car. It made 204 horsepower at the wheels. - [Mark] And 209 horsepower peak, which is identical to what the 86 made with a manual transmission. But, the horsepower dropped
off more dramatically. When I say dramatically, it dropped off 2, - [Jack] What, 5? - [Mark] Yeah (both laugh) - [Mark] Yeah, it dropped
off 2 extra horsepower from the manual transmission. (car engine roaring) - [Mark] So, there's not
a ton of drive train loss. And based on this dyno, You would assume that they are
underrating the power numbers for this car. Unless we have ringers. - [Jack] Yeah - [Mark] Don't know. Wait until the production cars get done, - [Jack] which I am buying one. I am buying a manual JR 86 in 15 years, (Mark laughs) - [Jack] In one production
showing. (Mark laughs) - [Mark] And I know, that, car again. And people will say, it's fake. Is there anything else, Jack,
here that's very important? - [Jack] Other than the fact that we have the wrong gearbox, Mark. - [Mark] it is an Asing gearbox six speed. They've improved the torque
converter and the clutch backs for the torque converter. And re-tuned it for this generation. So it's not a carry over completely. It's supposed to shift faster. It's supposed to be more
responsive. (Jack laughs) And Jack's going to tear me a new one about it in the drive. So let's get out there. (high energy techno music) - Jack, the automatic BRZ It's everybody's dream! - Oh boy, I can't wait. - Let's see how this gets off the line. (car engine roaring) (car tires squealing) - [Mark] Its really not bad. (car engine roaring) This even in automatic form
is instantaneously way quicker than the old car. And I know that's going to be
the overwhelming sentiment. - [Jack] I mean, it did now does 60 in the low to mid 6s, which is much faster than
the prior generation vehicle, which I believe was like
in the mid to high 7s. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, this is just, it really it's quick and
it's deceivingly fast because it's way smoother, too. The way that it builds power. The engine builds power
where you don't feel like a huge dip. And then, it pulls at the high end
without feeling wheezy. - Yeah, we've driven this car now, Mark. On the track, twice. - [Mark] Mm hmm - [Jack] Both JR 86's. But, at the original Monticello event and then at Auto Bond Country Club, where we compared it
to some other vehicles. We've never really spent time with his car on the street. So, that's
what I want to focus on in this BRZ. And
besides, so we talked about in the shop segment,
they really tuned the BRZ to be a little bit more forgiving, easier to drive at the limit. So let's talk about it. - Alright. - What do you think? - I think we need to talk
about the transmission. (Jack laughs) First. - Yeah, okay. - Alright. So to me - It's trash. - It is - It's total trash. - It's not trash - Alright. So, we argued a long time.
Off-camera about this car. So 70% of these vehicles
are sold as automatics, which means 70% of the owners, unless they have a physical disability. (beep) This car is a thousand
times better as a manual. This gearbox feels about
a decade old, which, oh, but Jack, it's reliable.
It's never going to break. (Mark laughs) I don't care! (Mark laughs) If you want reliable,
get a Corolla or a Camry. You're buying a rear
wheel drive sports car with a limited slip differential. And it'll go sideways and it looks cool. I want more than reliable! I want a gearbox that response. (Mark laughs) I want it to downshift when I want it to And there are other cars
in this price segment, but yes, their front wheel drive. - Okay. Tell me what gearboxes are better. - Veloster N. We both admit it's better in that car. The Veloster N is better as a
DCT and it's a good gearbox. - Okay. Let me counterpoint you there. The dual clutch in all the
Hyundai's and Kias were blowing up for six years until they got it right. It was absolute trash. - [Jack] But, hey.
- So now they got one. - [Jack] But you say they got it right. - They got one. That we don't
even know. Its brand new. - Alright.
- So you rule that one out. - GLI, good car. And the GTI. - It's front wheel drive. And it's not that responsive. - [Jack] It's better than this - It is better than
this, but it's not like oh my God, I have to have it! - It's not life changing, but it is still better than
the sundial cell gearbox you have in this car that takes - Okay - [Jack] Forever. - So what's the direct competitor to this. The Miata transmission, the automatic. - I will also raise you Mustang EcoBoost. - Okay, that's the better transmission. - 10 speed automatic. - It is better. - It has been similarly priced. I'm not saying it's a better car, but automatic to
automatic, this feels old. - Okay. The only other one is the Miata. - [Jack] Yes. And I think the Miata
automatic is very comparable to this car. It's certainly not. I think the automatic in the
Miata is a little bit smoother It's smoother. It downshifts,
but they're very similar. (car engine roaring) But they're very similar (gear shift clicking) They're very, very similar. - [Jack] If you're looking at this purely against the Miata, right. Which is to be honest,
if you're buying this as a sports car, and this is what you want as your daily driver. That's what you're going to cross shop is against. - Right. Well, hold on a second. Let me launch this before we get pulled over. (Jack laughs) (car engine roaring) Now, I'm going to downshift. (car beeping) (car engine roaring) (Jack laughing) That to me, is the
biggest annoyance of this. It is reluctant to
downshift into second gear and absolutely will not
downshift into first gear, unless you're really at a low RPM. That is where this cripples
the fun of the car. And we noticed it on track. However, I will tell you this. It's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. Because one thing is I'm coming
from a place of perspective of coming from sportier cars that had automatic transmissions
from the late nineties, early two thousands that were so bad, that everybody had to have
a manual transmission. - True, okay. - This is not like that. It's not like that at
all. You can have a ton of fun with it. It's still quick to respond. It reminds me a lot of
the eight speed automatic and the Alexis F sport products like that. That's kind of the shift
quality. It's consistent. The only problem is it's not
super fast, like a dual clutch, and it doesn't want to
downshift as eagerly. It's still smooth and regular driving. It does everything you ask it to do. - My counterpoint is this is
no longer the late nineties, early two thousands. (Mark laughs) This is - Okay. So you want a Porsche PDK? - No! - For $30,000 dollars?
- I don't want a Porsche PDK. I want something that is
equivalent to cars that this is being crushed up against. I know plenty of people
who've bought Civic SIs, GTIs - Yeah. - GLIs.
- So you want a CVT. (Jack laughs) You want the Subaru CVT or you want the Honda CVT because that's the other alternative here. I think it's totally fine. And
people are going to enjoy it. And it's proven and it's reliable
and upright in your ride. (Jack laughs) Okay? But, you make a great point. (Jack laughs) I will give you that. It's
not, it could be better. - All right. So, let's
get back to the dynamics before you eject me. - It's a softer car. - out of this car, Yes. - Its a softer car. When you brake, you feel more dive. When you turn in, there's some
more under steer initially, (car engine roaring) (Jack laughs) but it still will go
from under to oversteer. - [Jack] Yes. - Like the GR 86. It's just a
little bit slower to do that. And I think for my
driving, what I've noticed, it's more comfortable. It's more compliant than the last car. You could drive this
everyday on the street and it does not beat you up.
There's not this over-reliance on rebound to make it feel
sporty in the dampers. It's a perfect set up for a street car. The problem is, is if you
start driving it harder, it is soft. And there is a disconnect between the front and the rear end. And I noticed it more in the wet. You feel nothing in the
backend, you feel no transition. And the steering now to me, feels a little bit more numb
and it could be the tires. It could be that softness in the tires. - We're on the premises.
We're in the poverty-spec. - The Eco, yeah. - Yeah, we're in the
cheapest variant of the BRZ which is the smaller, smaller
wheels, same size tires, but they are less sticky.
And I think though, if you're just coming from
the prior generation vehicle, the last car was not the
best long distance GT car. It was very noisy. - No - Didn't ride that great. This fixes, most of those problems - This is way better. - [Jack] Yes. - In every regard as a street car from the old 86 - [Jack] Mm hmm - And BRZ, they're just hands
down. There's no argument about that. The sacrifice is it's softer, it's a little bit more vague. The front to the rear
feels more disconnected because it's soft. And my
other complaint is breaking. And I've noticed this
on the 86 and the BRZ, you have to get a lot of pedal pressure to get this thing to stop. And I feel like there's a high level of pad compressibility,
which I haven't noticed on a lot of cars. And I don't
know if it's the pad compound, but there's the initial
build up of hydraulic force. And then that last bit,
there's this squishiness before you get bite.
And I don't like that. I feel like it could have a harder pad. It could have a more instantaneous bite. I'm not talking about - Yeah - On and off switch. - Mm hmm - But it's a little bit on the
slower side or softer side. - Do you think you could fix that with an after market set up? - Yes. Most everything
we're complaining about is going to be fixed. Nobody's buying this really
and going to keep it stuck. All of it can be corrected. And we talked about a lot of
the changes in the shop, Jack, and we're just kind of beating
a dead horse at this point. - Well, Mark. I think with
that then, it's time for us to get into the final thoughts. - Yes, please. Get out. (Jack laughs) (car door opens) (upbeat music) - Final thoughts on the new
BRZ, much like the GR 86. Everything that was good.
There is good, here. There's minimal differences,
aside from aesthetics. There are some mechanical
differences with suspension, like the last car and
typical Subaru fashion, they want this to feel
a little bit more safe. Which means a little bit more understeer. And when I say understeer, we're talking about like
5 to 10%, it's so minimal. You're not going to notice
it on street driving. Speaking of which, we
put this on the street, and it is amazing. It rides softer than the old car. It is more compliant
and it is way quieter, which means you can drive this
every single day and not feel like you want to drop it off
and get into something else. The interior storage is excellent. The door panels, hold a bottle. You have space in the
center stack to put things It's not a completely compromised car. When you think sports car, you think okay, there's no place to
put anything like a Miata. Or even some of these weird coupe SUVs, that were saying this is more practical in many ways than those. Now. Yes, it's a two-door car. So your back passengers are
going to be suffering of it. But the trunk is amazing. You can still fit a
ton of things in there. That's what I love about
this car. Price, usability, and now there's more refinement
and it still maintains that fun to drive character. The fake the engine noise,
I'd be curious to see what it sounds like without that, but you know, it's way quicker. The manual transmission is one of the best in the price segment and
the automatic transmission. Despite what Jack says, is
really not all that bad. Could it be better? Yes. But what do you expect here? There's nothing else like this anymore. So I'm not going to complain. It's up to you to get behind
the wheel of this thing and make your own decision. If you want to slap down
30 plus thousand dollars in probably a dealer markup.
Thanks for watching. I'll see you next time. (upbeat piano music) (car engine roaring)
I love that Jack has remained on the channel, their personalities and perspectives are such a good contrast.
I'm eager to see what Jack does to his GR86.
[removed]
The looks are starting to grow on me. I wasn’t a fan originally, but I’d love to see one in person.
Side note: he mentioned they can tune out or reprogram the fake engine noise in the cabin at the dealership. Has anyone ever done this? I’d love to hear about the experience.
This really is my favorite car from this year. What Subaru/Toyota manage to give you for 28k is truly incredible and shows enthusiast cars can be affordable like the Miata. Rwd, manual, lightweight, practical, etc. They were able to improve the problems of the 1st gen without adding weight, specifically the torque dip. I can’t wait to see these on the road and with a few n/a mods.
u/SavageGeese
How much of the difference in softness, steering feel etc is down to the primacy(on the base brz) vs pilot sport 4(on the gr86)
Reason I ask is, I ordered the base BRZ(premium) because I did not need the rest of the stuff on the limited and figured I would just throw on pilot sport 4s myself.
Threw in an order for a BRZ last week somewhat on impulse because I'm having issues with my Mustang and wanted something lined up in case I decide to dump the Ford. The more I'm seeing about what Subaru/Toyota did with this car the more excited I get. The 4-5 month wait is going to be a bit painful but looking like it'll be worth it.
Can I just say I love how salty Mark is about the dyno criticisms where people are saying that he's lying or something?
Personally I don't know shit about car mechanics and engineering, but to me he has always been straightforward about cars, so I take his word.
I don't really care because it's not something I'd notice if driving... I just think it's funny
Damn IGN reviewing cars now