1000 Mile EV Road Trip Recap

[Music] all right what's up everybody welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and today we've got a i'm going to call this a special episode yeah even though it's pretty similar to our previous ones it's a special episode because we did this crazy spontaneous project and we finally get to reveal what we were doing why we were doing it and how it went this is a the most casual version of where you'll see it but we're working on videos that may or may not be out soon by the time you see this podcast yeah but this is the project that we did so you've heard us talk all the time about electric cars on this channel we've had people on talking about electrify america we've had people on we've talked about tesla in the past we just had doug demiro on recently talking about cars clearly there's a lot of car talk on this channel and one of the things that i've constantly heard in all this car talk is the difference between a road trip and a gas car and an electric car yeah just a fascinating question like what kind of time does it add to your trip what kind of experience changing does that do is there is there more range anxiety there's just just a different feeling doing a trip in a gas car like you're used to versus an older car a lot more planning needed so we decided to actually do such a trip yeah and we made a we made a little bit of an experiment about it it's semi-scientific but here's basically how it went is we did a thousand mile loop roughly and we used three different cars that all started at the exact same time we had the tesla model s plaid we'll go over all the details in a second but that's the roughly highest range available tesla using tesla superchargers we went with the ford mustang machi california route 1 edition which is from what i understand and from our research showed the highest range non-tesla ev yeah and so that would be using its own set of chargers it's also just one of the best-selling evs that are oh yeah right now yeah it's hotcakes right now and we had a gas car as a control kind of wanted to use just like some sort of a full-size popular normal car to go on a road trip in we ended up renting a car and that car was the audi q5 yeah so uh sort of a i don't know would you say crossover super comparable to the maki in terms of price and size um it's definitely a little higher because it's you know a little more expensive audi is a little more expensive but it was just wound up we thought it was a perfect comparison to the pretty similar price yeah yeah so that something like 25 to 30 miles per gallon something like that and the way we did it was we divided up the entire studio into three teams and we had these teams all i'm using air quotes race starting from point a doing a loop around points b c d and e and ending up back on point a so we drew this thousand mile loop around new york and pennsylvania and new jersey and that's how we did it so the teams were myself and hayato in the tesla we had your car team gasolina castellini what i had adam and i had tim so there's a three-person car and then we have uh representing the gas car we'll pop in oh sorry representing the mustang mock e we had brandon and david so let's bring in david david welcome welcome to the waveform podcast we're glad to have you back thank goodness i'm glad you're here i'm glad you made it um wow we have a lot to talk about because there were well quite a variety of experiences and i feel like if you were if we were guessing at the beginning what was going to happen uh and we kind of were at this point it's kind of like when we do the blind smartphone camera test we're kind of like guessing behind the scenes as we set up the brackets what might happen i would have guessed that the gas car would come in first because there are gas stations everywhere and that the tesla would come in second because there are a lot of tesla superchargers but it's just not as long as not as many as gas and it takes longer to charge and that the mustang mock e would come in shortly after that because there are even less electrify america high-powered stations especially in certain parts of the country and that would have been sort of the end of my boring prediction yeah can i also just add something quickly to how so i i made the the loop why i kind of made it how we did yeah um so the first thing we wanted to do is make sure we all hit a thousand miles which was just like a number we picked out that's just easy to extrapolate data from and then in order to force that i had to pick a bunch of specific points we made them fun just because you know we still have to drive for two straight days and we wouldn't be a little entertained yeah but um we didn't want any shortcuts to happen we didn't want people like finding some certain ways to cheat the system so this guaranteed everyone hit a thousand miles i'm pretty sure everyone definitely hit the thousand um i think we were 1025 was right around where we are it was a little bit different for every car which we'll get into but it was a little over a thousand yeah yeah but so what i did was i wanted to force that a thousand miles but i also wanted to have all the places as places that are either frequently traveled to or frequently visited um so we did we started going to lake placid also we're starting in new jersey so it has to be somewhere near us our starting point super super useful one wawa so food stop yeah that happens to have a gas station a tesla supercharger and an electrifying america charger right there basically in that parking lot so that was perfect i'll pretty much top off and then start at 100 yeah so we went to lake placid then we went to niagara falls then we went to cornell university in ithaca down to scranton and then back across to work it was a little over a thousand miles it is also in a fairly like remote area as well though but for us it is still a place where people like we would travel to people go to niagara falls from here all the time i'll go to lake placid it was a past olympic site it's like all pretty obvious driving yeah um but again it wasn't going to be an easy trip by any means yeah i mean like for a gas car you have no worries about it um but for the rest of it we weren't really sure and we did make a rule where you were not allowed to pre-plan charging or gas stops or pit stops or whatever beforehand you weren't allowed to until you got into the car we wanted to make it like yeah most people don't do it like that yeah like you were going to get in the car and you're just going to see where the car told you what to do pretty much yeah so i want to do let's do like a quick two three second two three minute recap of each car's experience just to set the stage for what actually went down right so i think gas car should probably start because that's what everyone's familiar with the controls so i guess that's what everyone should be familiar i mean it went smooth uh we definitely had all of the advantages on our side we had as many stops as we wanted to because almost even out there in the middle of the adirondacks we could get a gas station pretty much wherever we wanted um we could stop for food when we wanted it wasn't taking up a whole lot of time we had three drivers although i wound up doing most of it i was just on a roll tim was creating a thumbnail adam was our best cameraman so it just kind of we settled into roles and and went that way but we uh yeah we cruised that was pretty much it no surprises you ended up no surprises trivia we did split it up into two days just for clarity so we did it yeah day one was start at the studio head up to lake placid then head over to niagara falls pause leave your current state of charge or in your case state of fuel and then day two wake up in niagara falls finish the rest of the loop from there and we'd keep the time delta from each car yeah the tesla oh i want to ask was there any sort of um autopilot cruise control that you were taking um a lane assist and cruise control nothing that was attempting to be full self-driving by any means it was more of just like a hey i'm helping you stay in the lane i'm keeping up with the car in front of you you can set travel distance it was coming from an older car with 180 000 miles on it it's nice to just be in a newer car but like it wasn't anything i was assuming both of the the maki or the tesla would have it's not like anything we've talked about i enjoyed it it definitely made driving a little easier but that's good yeah okay uh yeah i'll go for the tesla car um i've done a lot of road trips in the tesla before so i was very familiar and even without any pre-planning you get in the car and you're able to plan pretty easily on the map on the touch screen in the car so yeah we we didn't have any sort of issues i'm looking at my charging stops here which i've written all of them down we had six total charging stops three on each day okay none of them were over 46 minutes um and they were all pretty fast typically we would get you know 60 to 80 battery pretty quickly our most dramatic experience was the first one where we went directly from the studio all the way up to the top of the mountain in lake placid where i arrived with 0.3 battery left which is one mile left on the car yeah um so i was i was chilling i was definitely going very slow up that hill to make sure that worked out but once we got there that was our first stop um where we charged for half an hour and got to 275 miles so i was definitely trusting the supercharger network with that one for sure yeah for sure um other than that yeah autopilot was great i learned a lot about the limits of navigate on autopilot i still wish i had access to the the full self-drive beta where it was like exits i didn't have it but it was great for highway stuff which was nice how was uh maki all right well first of all thank you guys for for beaming me in here because i was still stuck in vermont and uh and so i'm gonna shave real quick oh wow that feels better okay all right for those who are listening to audio david had a fake mustache i think we like we mixed up our the two intros we wanted to do and just put them together and i realized we left them can't break the fourth wall man uh okay yeah so you know i think brandon and i were in the monkey we got a little um screwed over at the very first stop and that kind of set the pace for the rest of the first day and uh even though we were originally going for like kind of not like a race but also just like uh it's sort of a race but not trying to like drive fast right we capped out at 75 miles per hour on each car um but we had to pull off actually i was very surprised by the monkey uh something the monkey does really well is like the range estimate is extremely accurate and you actually get more range than it says you're gonna get which is not something teslas do uh and the sea the ford guy that came to hand off the um lightning to us told us that they do this on purpose because they would prefer to give custer like give customers lower expectations and then pleasantly surprise them yeah that's something we definitely saw in the monkey was we got more range than it said we were going to get which was great the problem was we got to the first charger with like 30 miles remaining on the car uh and the chargers were all down and i guess it was something weird where they were like switching over systems over the weekend and they hadn't finished switching them over or something but the problem with that was in that area of upper new york there's like there's nothing around there there's that charger and that is it you needed that charger we needed that charger to work just to be clear real quick that was an evolved new york truck an evolved new york charger which is i believe run by the new york uh state but i need to double check that um but they were they were kind of freaking out when we tweeted about it and they were like we're gonna it's gonna be operational by 3 p.m and like by that time though brandon and i had to drive to vermont which was yeah literally the opposite direction that we needed to go but it was the only one we could make it to um so we had to drive into vermont we finally made it to a charger there there was one charger and i don't know if you want to get into this now or if we want to get into this later as a broader discussion about the network yeah uh would you rather do that later i like i kind of like diving into like some of the more general points and like findings from this because i didn't know what i would want to say after we do this trip like i figured we'd end up with this this number at the end of like okay we did the trips we did all three cars here's how much time it added to the trip in the tesla here's how much time it added to the trip in the mock e yeah and those were obviously still our findings and it's you know it's something like an hour or two for the tesla for a thousand miles and it's depending on your experience anywhere from three to seven hours in the maki depending on if you have a remote area where there's nothing else and you've got to go the wrong direction you ended up not being able to even hit lake placid because you're wrong with no other charger yeah we had to skip it but another thing i was interested in was what you were just mentioning which is the accuracy of the range estimate in the car yeah i've driven a lot of gas cars where you get a decent range estimate but you're not really trusting it with your life because there's so many gas stations out there it doesn't really matter yeah but uh the tesla when i drive any tesla it's it's pretty notoriously giving me a buffer but the range estimate is perfect conditions yeah and in uh perfect conditions my car with the 21 inch wheels said it would get me about 345 miles i have never gotten that ever yeah and i've never gotten perfect efficiency which i think would probably be around 260 watt hours per mile i pretty constantly at highway speeds average over 300 typically 300 to 350. and in this car you know we're just doing cruise control sometimes you're drafting behind a truck you know hills will affect it a little bit that near the end yeah it's very useful very useful by the way yeah but like i will i'll set off to a charger and if the charger is 30 miles away and the car says i have 40 miles to go i'm actually thinking about it a lot more than you would think yeah because you think 10 miles wow you have way you have a ton of buffer but as you're driving that buffer also shrinks because it's not perfect efficiency um and i was really impressed we were i think we were on a twitter space or something and you were talking about the range of the mach e and it was definitely going down much slower despite our same speed we would go like two miles and it'll only drop a mile like i think every trip between chargers we would get like 20 to 25 more miles of range than it said we were going to get that is and i think that's what ford should be doing that's like what i think that's awesome what these electric car manufacturers that like the number one concern for most consumers is the range anxiety of electric vehicles and the best way to curb that is to like set expectations really low and then beat them yeah that is something i was really surprised by and i think it's a really good thing that ford did that when they dropped off the lightning they told us they do this where like even in the lightning they assume the mileage range based on a thousand miles in the bed all right or a thousand pounds of cargo yeah of cargo in the bed and so like they want to under promise and over deliver and that's what they definitely did with the maki too we gained like 20 to 25 miles or like we got 20 to 25 miles more than it said we were going to get yeah and i'd much prefer that to like a tesla where you just like it says you have the range yeah like just to go from my apartment to here it's 11 miles but i burn like 20 to 22 miles exactly exactly so i and i noticed this with the ti can a lot of people have the same experience like it gets way closer even though it's saying oh we'll only do 225 miles it'll get 220 miles which is pretty impressive the california route 1 edition of the maki i think is rated at 305 miles yeah i don't know if you ever saw that number on the dash no i was very confused with that because like online it says 305 but we only ever got up to like 265 max interesting but we have the root one edition so yeah but there's also a there's a feature in the car that we saw on the dash where it was either going to estimate your range based on previous driving or not and we left it on so it's possible previous driving knocked that estimate down it only had like a thousand miles on it though so it shouldn't have shouldn't be too crazy too crazy yeah yeah but yeah so it was giving you 250-ish and you got every ounce of that yeah which is pretty crazy yeah um yeah i think i remember so we we left uh the studio the tesla had 340 miles on it the mach e had 240 miles on it and during that same leg of the trip i was down to 50 and you were down to 30. yeah it was like we like almost had to charge at the exact same time yeah so that was that was pretty impressive and i wanted to note that yeah um the other thing is the accuracy of what's on the screen so this is one of our one of our points is we wanted to plan our road trip based on the info that the car or the app was giving us and so that's what i did in the tesla that's i mean with a gas car you kind of just go on site because we could have yeah we could have done whatever we wanted we didn't really have to plan too much not at all so the evs we're thinking a lot about planning and the difference between the information and the accuracy of it that you get on the tesla screen versus the mock e is probably the biggest story and learning from at least my experience with the tesla it'll go all right here's all the superchargers on the map you can filter by speed you can filter by how far away from you they are you click on one on the map it'll tell you how much it will cost per minute to charge there if you don't have free charging it'll tell you how many stalls there are how many are occupied how many are out of order and how long you'll have to charge there to get your next destination yeah that's perfect that's like and all that information has been notoriously very accurate for me and so i relied on it i would literally go okay lake placid is a is a 250 kilowatt charger there's eight stalls they're empty i will get there with one percent left go yeah and guess what i got there with one percent time to time to hit that charge here yeah and what we found in the maki was uh oh you can tell the story yeah it's very different yeah it's very different um the maki's ui is like good in some ways but extremely confusing in a lot of other ways and i think i think a broader problem with this whole thing is just the amount of charging companies that there are there are like 19 different charging companies right and ford uses like all of them and they have a filter for like ford approved um which didn't really change anything when we when we turned it on because i assume that they just want to say their network is as big as possible i think that's what it is yeah so it didn't really change anything when we turned on ford approve we did find there is a setting for um like prefer fast charging okay finally um but we kind of went into this like just so everybody knows like i got so many comments on twitter just being like why didn't you use this app or why didn't you go on this random website and like we went into this i wanted to see what the experience would be like if i just bought this car i didn't really know anything about evs and i just like put in my destination and let it do the rest yeah and that's what ended up like kind of wrecking us because we didn't go into the filters the first day and put like prefer fast charging or anything like that we just kind of like went and yeah it's like we well you would get to a trickle charger and i have this photo um that i'll have adam put on the screen where like and brandon and i at like 11 pm ended up at this truck stop in the middle of nowhere we almost stayed at this uh random motel in this creepy area in the middle of nowhere we had no idea where we were and i i plugged in because the car was like oh there's a charger here you're basically out of range there's a charger here please plug in and it was like a trickle charger so i plugged in and i got a notification on my watch and it was like 2 900 minutes until 16 percent charge and i was like holy smokes smokes that's yeah and that that's like kind of brutal the uh the fact that you can go through the filters and that you did do that for the second day made a pretty big difference i think yeah although to be honest we mostly just used the electrify america app on our phones because the second like the thing is there's like 19 or 20 different charging networks but electrify america is useful because at every single electrify america charger there are at least four right the biggest problem we ran into and actually the reason why we had so many issues was we would stop at fast chargers with like 30 left but so many of these chargers only have one hose like one thing to plug into a one stall one one one stall one charger okay right whereas like every tesla charger has like at least like six minimum and electrify america which is owned by volkswagen group actually has four minimum right and so the second day we figured like okay the chances of all four of them being out are much lower um and we did cut it close yesterday on our last charge because three of the four were out but the biggest issue we ran into yesterday was that like all of the fast charges we would route to there was one like the first day that was the evolved new new york one there were like four to six but they were just all down because they were like switching to some other thing i don't even know what that means um but yeah most of the fast chargers it would be like you'd pull into a truck stop somewhere and there would be literally one yes and not ideal yeah and and like half the time more than half the time they were broken yeah and i remember i called the number on the thing because someone on twitter had say like oh just call it they can reset it for you i called the number and she was like oh yeah yeah that was reported being broken like a few days ago a service technician should be coming out at some point and it's like in the next week so yeah this is the problem is like it's so decentralized right like there's obviously a good there's good things to be said about fragmentation sometimes because it can cause one company to not have too much power but when it's so decentralized like this and there's no like universal like hub or server that says hey these are out of order send that to the ford app and the app says you can't use this yeah there's there's nothing like that and if you pull into a fast charge and you have 30 miles remaining what are you supposed to do the closest thing you can get to is either nothing vermont or a trickle charger that will take 2 900 minutes to get to sixteen percent so yeah it's very important with a with an electric car yeah for that sort of thing to work and you also think about in the future when there's gonna be way more electric cars having a station that it's guiding you to that has one charger yeah you don't know if it's being used or not yeah it's going to become a problem even if it works and it's so like um sorry i will stop talking a sec but the last charger that we went to uh yesterday the last day it was an electrify america because we hit only electrify america charges on the way home just because we wanted to play it safe okay and on the electrifying america app it said one of four available and i was like okay well and this is like before we left our last charging location so it was still gonna be like 200 miles till we got there so i was like oh well like three out of four of them are being used by the time we get there i'm sure there will still be one available we got there that didn't mean they were being used it was it meant they were broken so one was not broken and it's just like if you have more than one electric car in a 200 mile radius you're gonna have to wait for the person before you to finish and then you're gonna have to wait the 30 to 45 minutes for your car to charge and like that's just that's not acceptable yeah and electrify america is the best of all of these services the best available yeah so yeah well i want to take a quick break but when we come back i want to talk about both the charging and refueling experience but also how 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caller by going to shophalocollar.com that's shophalocollar.com waveform for 20 off now our mics are going to be covered in here welcome back uh i think we left off with david telling us about getting to a charger that only had one left which is kind of terrifying i think we can all agree on that i i think it's something that i'm always interested with in evs though it's just like number of stalls because this is as the gas car when we were driving we stopped at gas stations i don't think we ever went under half a tank because we almost played it similarly to how you guys did where like we tried to make every break as efficient as possible where we have a bathroom break let's just fill up while we're here i don't think any break we had ever took longer than 10 minutes um some were just for food i think we had two stops that were only for food and we didn't fill up because it was we had gone to the bathroom recently enough where we were pretty solid but we never went under half a tank of gas there were gas stations though where like when we pulled in no pumps were available and you know gas station they've got eight to ten pumps but waiting for that still means you're only waiting for some two to three people to finish and then you're in there and out of there in less than five or ten minutes like ev charging is which i think in this trip we were in a situation where there are less chargers um i think i mean i'm getting way ahead of myself but i just had this thought up it would be really interesting to do this trip again in places where evs are super super popular and you're getting to potentially the point where you're pulling up to a charger that's full because we've we've all seen those videos of like narcotics lines right yeah california i mean basically just california yeah um but not to get too off track i just had that thought like we never spent more than 10 minutes and even though we would go to places where there's a line for the bathroom a line for the the gas pumps like a line for food we went to the slowest wendy's ever because they were short staffed and still nothing we ever did took longer than 10 minutes yeah no i think i think the goal of electric charges should be to match the current gas car experience which would be two things one speed of charging has to get way faster to match the time and two the amount of them that there are in the country has to be way more because i feel like with your gas card trip you can actually just go straight to your waypoints and your food destinations and not even think about where you're gonna charge because you can charge at any point or fuel at any point that you need to but with the electric cars it was a little different and even in the tesla i found it where you are planning around your chargers yeah and i think around this thousand mile trip we kind of hit every type of charger as far as things that you can do at that charging stop typically you want like something to eat or somewhere to use a bathroom something like that so we got up to lake placid that one was a top of a mountain grocery store and that was pretty much it so i think yeah at that grocery store we got snacks and like donuts or whatever and that was fine i think we stopped at another one that was a mall and we wanted to eat so with that stop we went into the mall and found the food court in the middle of the mall and ate at a wendy's there and then came back all the way out the mall to the to the parking lot because it was just in the on the mall parking lot we had another one that was at a hotel and it was really interesting because we weren't about to go in this hotel because we didn't have a reservation or anything but i imagine there wouldn't have been much to do that was our short that was an eight-minute stop we didn't really do much there but like if you were looking for food there there wasn't it wasn't really anything we would have had to go somewhere else that's actually surprising there was another one that was in a strip mall with tons of food but we happened to pick one of the like eight options and had a bite there so we kind of had every version of it but it was when we were deciding to be efficient we weren't driving to food or driving to the waypoint and then happened to have a charger nearby it was look on the map we're going to scranton where's the charger near scranton we're going there first yeah then we'll figure out what to do yeah there is um on the tesla website if you look it up on your phone you can see what food's around there but even with that knowledge you're pretty at the mercy of what because generally you're planning that trip already like that's your option that's what you get yep i will say i do i think you benefited on the lake placid one on getting food there because we made the mistake of let's let's get going we're pretty close we're not gonna grab food here because we're not that hungry and then the distance between lake placid and like close to niagara there was nothing so all of us were just like we played that bad game of waiting for like to try and get something better to eat and there was absolutely nothing so we were starving we ate at like a gas state or no we've but we found a really nice cafe that was nice but it took a while and yeah it was kind of it's kind of nice to get forced into planning to eat and whatever but other than that it was nice that we could wait find something hop off the road grab something he hopped back on the road in a couple minutes yeah part of the reason we did thousand miles by the way was just because that's obviously way more than twice the range of both electric cars it was just that we would have to definitely stop multiple times for various things just sort of getting more variables involved there um yeah no i feel like we we had a good variety of different stops i don't know it was the electrify america charger where would that date where would that usually be okay so like when we on the first day when we were just doing whatever chargers the board app told us to stop at um it was pretty random like everything but electrify america is is sort of like in a forest and there's sort of a little convenience smart or just like just in very random locations like we stopped in this like very cute town where we ended up getting sandwiches um but it was just like one ev charger in some random lot down by the lake and it was just really random all the electrified america chargers definitely play more like tesla does like the reason there was an electrifying america charger near the wawa was because that's also a walmart parking lot and they have a relationship with walmart right but they put a lot in the walmart parking lots we stopped at one that was in a um outlet mall but that was like kind of crummy it for the food's sake because like all we really wanted was uh like there was basically no food there there was a froyo shop and we wanted coffee but there was actually no coffee in a entire like outlet mall which is surprising but impressive anyway um yeah definitely not quite as good but i feel i feel like the electrify americas are a little bit better and at least you could like go into um not walmart and uh maybe pick something up there if you needed to it's like not enjoyableness walmart has food exactly they have food so yeah no i feel like the tesla two things one uh there are destination chargers on the tesla map but they're all gray so if you look for a charger by default it's going to show you all the superchargers which are all fast usually most of them are v2s some are v3s so that'll be 150 kilowatts or 250. um if you want to you can tap on the gray ones and it'll show you some of those like random charge point chargers or like single chargers in a like a parking lot of a bagel shop or whatever it's like you probably don't intentionally want to go to one of those but if you are in a pinch they're on the map and you can find one that's nearby but also yeah we i remember on the way to lake placid there was uh we had a moment where we could choose about an hour short to stop at the last supercharger for a while and i looked on the map and i saw a bunch of mountains and i was like oh that could be a problem but you know what we're an hour away and we've got barely enough range we're doing this we're going we're going all the way up to lake placid on one charge and it was kind of just like once we got past that last charger we were fully committed there was nothing else around there were no destination chargers we were going through a forest it was like sheetrock walls to like rivers and like single lane roads up the side of a mountain and uh one of the questions you usually get is okay well what what do you do if you run out in an electric car like if you're in a gas car you can get towed obviously but also like if you get someone to bring you a can of gas you can pour it in the car and actually just keep going yeah battery doesn't work that way not quite the same a lot of people keep bringing up like a generator like that's not very efficient you could in theory get a mile or two out of a generator but that's a big generator that runs on gas people really bring that up yeah well i mean that's like the only it's the only thing that kind of works in your head of like okay portable fuel yeah if you're in a gas car portable fuel is just a can of gas if you're in an electric car what's the answer the theory there battery checks out but it honestly makes no sense it doesn't makes a thousand word it would be nice if if there were some sort of battery you could plug into your car just to get extra range but it doesn't exist um so yes you do you have to get towed and i've seen it happen yeah i've never gotten to that point i'm jinxing it but i've been down to one mile many times yeah also we met somebody uh who worked for tesla and this is not the first tesla employee who has told me that there is a small reserve underneath zero miles probably don't want to go there all the time it's probably bad for your battery but multiple people have told me numbers between 10 and 25 miles okay extra range if you are absolutely in a bind and you've run out and have nothing around you that's that's handy to have good to know yeah good to know but i i got to one mile and the car was fine so okay that existed maybe it hangs on that one mile for like quite a while it turned to one mile like about a mile from the charger i think we have footage of us getting up i think hiato checks in every couple minutes where it's like oh nice we've got 13 miles left on the ride and 13 miles left on the car battery great oh look we've got five miles left on the car going up a hill and we're six miles away from the charger oh great and then we got to like one mile left and it happened to be like we get to a downhill so there's a little bit of regen i go nice and slow i get all the battery back yeah go back up the hill and it was just just perfect yeah so yeah it happened to work out um i have our our total deltas at roughly an hour and a half for the tesla behind the gas car and then if we include all of the adventures of vermont and not having a charger available the mock e on this particular trip was about five hours behind five to five and a half hours behind yeah i mean it's only because of that first situation yes if we only count the second day we were actually only like 20 minutes yeah it was like 20 minutes it was really close and brandon and i made a sort of inefficient coffee shop a stop once yeah which probably took about 15 minutes yeah i think it's really interesting when you isolated the second day yeah so the second day we all left from niagara falls somewhere around 11 in the morning and the tesla had about 70 miles on it the gas car had some bazillion miles how many we had a half a tank it was like 450 or no maybe we had more we had like 450 miles that's the start a lot and uh you had somewhere around 180 i think yeah yeah and so 184 or something like that so we had to make a pretty early stop because we were already at 70 and we stopped at cheektowaga which had a great level 3 charger in 15 minutes we went from 40 to 198 miles so it was quick but that last leg was about 450 miles that day yeah and we all arrived within about an hour of each other yeah is that right yeah the first thing like maki came in before tesla correct probably oh it's the first thing the second day okay yeah but if we go to first stop ithaca i think you beat them by we did by like 15 20 minutes theoretically theoretically before first stop it should not matter because we should all be traveling at 75 miles per hour and leaving at the exact same time yeah there was charlie differences i guess it was you were starting at different ranges though also yeah we started with low battery and radially they charged they charged right before they went to do the clock photo we did not we charged after the clock photo did you charge once before the clock no he went straight there i thought you did because we were neck and neck with you guys and then there was a turn at one point because that was the only time we were together and you guys stopped to charge i think right oh i think they charged twice before ithaca you charged i think once total on the second day we only charged twice yeah we charged twice before ithaca once at cheektowaga because we started with low battery and then once basically in ithaca yeah so that's our but then we had one more stop yesterday like under ideal conditions if you only go to electrify america's and they're available um which luckily this one was it is pretty much almost one-to-one with tesla like the charging rate of most electrified americas are either 150 or 350 which the 350 like tesla doesn't even offer yet but also there are no electric cars that offer anything near that yet yeah 275 is the fastest charging car on the market and it's the tycan um so like the fact that it charges at the speed of a v2 tesla it's pretty good right like but it's just the volume and and the thing that kept ringing in my head yesterday was you build it and they will come but the they haven't really built the charging infrastructure yet and then but there's this huge push to build electric cars and weirdly it's like there's not a lot of car manufacturers that are really heavily investing in the charging network they're kind of taking the like it's not really our problem approach uh even volkswagen like only made electrify america because they had to the u.s government forced them to make their own charges yeah and like it's funny that like they were forced to and then now it's the best network that is not tesla um but yeah it's like there's all these random charging companies that are sort of trying to get a piece of the pie and like yes company electric car companies are investing in these other companies but they're not i feel like they need to do more they really need to do more and also putting a single charger in a location and being like we service this area is not acceptable it's just not acceptable yeah it's tough i i almost kind of frame this at the beginning of like if i were to put my parents in this car and say yeah drive to this place i was thinking yeah how would it go for them yeah and obviously the gas car they'd be fine they'd drive a gas car if we put them in the tesla i think they would have no problem being very conservative and just stopping at like every supercharger along the way and just just being safe with battery and i wonder if they had decided to just pick whatever route the mock e laid out for them how it would have gone yeah um but a lot of parallels keep coming up in my mind between like almost like ios and android i'm trying to like crystallize this more in my head probably by the time i make this video but like yeah tesla controlling the whole stack which is they build the superchargers for teslas they have the length of the cable perfectly to to match up with where the charge port is on every car they make and like obviously this is all it's all thermally optimized and it's it's online and it talks to the cars and it builds you later like it's very streamlined um the fact that that works so well seems like an impossible target for another company that isn't building their own yeah um and you can get close and there's the there's the pixel of the experience which is maybe a volkswagen owned car yeah on electrify america only yeah maybe a tie can and here's a hot take there is a route somewhere there is a world and a route that you can take where the mock e wins probably beats the tesla maybe even ties the gas car yeah because if you follow electrify america's 350 watt maximum chargers and even i would say the plaid model s with those big wheels which has 350 miles on the dash doesn't quite get 300 miles and the 305 mile machi would probably get 305 miles so if you take off from the same place and you hit electric america's fast chargers there's a world where it wins yeah and you only hit 150s in the tesla and i think that's the best case like you could possibly find for it but i if you're if you're giving the car to my parents and saying yes saskatchewan like it it's not going to be there and this is an it is extremely like ios versus android actually because ccs which is the one that everything's sort of converging to is a lot like usbc it's like it offers all of these things and most cars are starting to use it and whereas tesla it's like they're lightning they're in a lot of places and like they offer a lightning to usbc connector right but actually the usbc ccs offers like more things it can go up to 350 watts it's kind of like there's some benefits if you get the right cable you can get the fastest thunderball three speeds but there's a lot of cables that look like it that don't get thunderbolt three speeds yeah and you pull up to the wrong charger and get slow speed you can go up to 350 tesla doesn't even offer that right at this point their fastest charging is 250 550 which is the newest model snx icann is better than that just a little bit yeah so there's going to be usbc phones out there that charge faster than the iphone but are they ubiquitous and work every time like lightning right interesting and when your friends ask you at a party if you have a charging cable and you hand them the usb c cable and they say oh no i have an iphone yeah you know yeah maybe maybe i need to draw that comparison in the video i like that yeah um there's one other thing in charging that i thought was really interesting that i would like i feel like we need to do the math on for the final video but it's the the like charging curve that we found out between the maki and i think that's going to be totally dependent on the car well yeah but if we just compare to maki right now which what we found was it goes full blast right until 80 percent and then just 10. it's not right until 80 percent i noticed yesterday the last electrify america charger we used actually showed the kilowatts that it was outputting yeah and when we first plugged in at 30 it was actually going at 157 which was weird to me because i can only take 150 i think maybe it was accounting for heat loss or something um but it was outputting 157 but then once we got to 60 it actually dropped to like 87. so the drop is fairly significant you're getting there's a curve same thing in the probably all of these cars and this is the same with smartphones you you get peak charging briefly like you're if you're rated on your phone to charge at 80 watts or something crazy it doesn't charge at 80 watts from 0 to 100 you go ramp up to your peak charging and you'll get peak charging from like 10 to 30 percent and then it'll slowly you probably could find a graph of this it'll slowly slow down all the way to 100 percent then you have this weird thing where after 80 on the maki it like capped you at 10 kilowatts which you can see it on this graph here which is very slow really slow weird i'm not sure why functionally it would decide to do that other than like protecting you from touching a hundred percent but if you're at a fast charger you want to charge yeah like i know that most cars like will start i mean sort of trickle charging after around 80. tesla goes pretty hard but it's not that low right i mean it goes to under 50 after 80 yeah but 10 kilowatts is so slow it seems pretty obvious that any charger outside of your house you're not they don't want you there to 100 either like that you're just taking up more spots you're you're generally not charging up to that and you're but if you charge me up faster i'll leave faster this is almost like a right to repair thing because it's like we're forcing you to not hurt your battery by only charging to 80 percent ever even though you could charge to 100 yeah we really want you to only go to 80. also every car treats it a little differently the ti can um i'm trying to remember the specifics with the tesla you can slide a slider right to 100 and it'll charge the car to 100 and it'll warn you hey don't do this every time we don't want you to degrade your battery life quickly yeah but if you go down to 80 that's your typical everyday state of charge leave the garage with 80 and that's like a safe way of doing it uh the maki you also have that control but i believe the tai can has a a bit of extra battery that it doesn't charge every time so if you uh charge to a hundred percent on the tie can you're actually going to keep hitting that hundred percent every single day and for the life of the car it will feel like it doesn't degrade because there's extra battery above it that it's preserving for hitting yeah so it does it takes that like out of the equation for the ti can owner they believe they're charging to 100 every time and they get the same experience they're kind of smart to be honest it feels like a gas car like i fill my tank every day and i don't have to worry about the tank yeah shrinking or something weird the thing stops when it stops exactly so there's different ways different companies have attacked that and uh i'd be curious if there's like a written reason why it decides 80 it's gonna slow charge instead of stopping i don't know yeah i assume it's some sort of like battery chemistry thing that we did not go to school for so i might have to talk to someone from ford i'm sure yeah i'm sure they're raging at the keyboard right now trying to tell us exactly what it is but i i am very aware that i can charge 200 on the tesla as many or as few times as i want to and that's in my control and if you're an enthusiast you'll probably appreciate that more so yeah there's that yeah but yeah i'm i would love to know i bet there's a world where we can plan an exact trip where the mock e wins like a 500 there's multiple a 500 mile trip where there's only 150 kilowatt superchargers for the tesla yeah and there is you know all electric america for the maki and you just ride it out and it's just you know it's just so hard that teslas can use so many non-tesla chargers too and adapt to them and obviously like i don't think they can use all of them um i think you'd mentioned they possibly can't use electrify america that's something we have to like look into a little bit more um and that would make sense for volkswagen to do that but when you can have the tesla network which is like so big already and yes technically it is not the same size as the entire non-tesla network but also it's kind of bigger because you can adapt to a lot of those right right and like every non-tesla car company ceo is like our network is actually bigger and it's like not really and then also if you only have one at your station and there's a 50 chance of them being broken like the first electrify americo charger we went to yesterday the first one we plugged into was broken luckily there were three other charges we could plug into the second one worked second one we went to three of them are broke it's like none of these are like have really good uptime and electrify america likes to say that they have like 97 uptime or something and like clearly that's not true from like our referential data it could be true but like even 97 is probably not enough yeah like i i can see on the map when i want to test the superchargers down yeah and it's you maybe it's down for a day but like if you say in an entire year there is a thousand chargers and three of three percent of them that's 30 of them are down for the entire year that's pretty bad yeah you want 99 plus i hope even if we're just talking about the maki's trip on the first day if let's say everything was like just the worst coincidence possible anybody who is new to ev and had that experience in a new ev car yeah would regret their decision right and b probably never buy an eevee again and that's just not a place we can be right now if we're trying to fully adapt to ev cars because of emissions like that's not acceptable at all and i think that would you're not only ruining the experience for one person who will stick with gas for the rest of their life all of the people that they talk to that might be thinking of that decision is possibly ruining right that's something we were talking about earlier in the studio is just like the power of recommendations from your friends and family for so many people outweighs doing your own research on the internet so many people will say like oh i know this says that it's the best on the internet but my friend told me that it's not great it's like that is so powerful and it's something that they talked to us about with the lightning which is that pickup trucks right now are probably the most resistant to changing to evie which is hilarious considering they benefit the most from it but yeah that's a whole other whole another thing but like if we're talking about pickup trucks coming in if pickup truck drivers were to have that experience that they just had with maki it would be it would be hugely detrimental to just not just ford and the f-150 but i think to pick up in general because it's gonna be one of the first really big ones we see and i think they have a year to you know six months ish maybe six months to a year to really figure this out before the next the f-150 launch or else i think it could be really really bad for just evs and this is general it's the hard it's the hardest thing right like i want to know again like the the maki is like a pretty decent car actually like a lot of its parts are really nice the interior is pretty nice it was pretty nice to drive blue blue crews not blue screws i was about to ask about that blues cruise um yeah we can talk about that a little bit more uh in a sec too but like it's a pretty decent car and if you are not going on a road trip if you are plugging in every night and you only go within 200 miles oh yeah a lot of these cars like most people could use this every day and they would not have any problems yeah a lot of people take one road trip once in a while it's a very small consideration and you plan very heavily around it right so most people aren't buying the car based on the road trip yeah but also there's i just want to mention there's a couple variables for each car that uh could affect obviously were on different roads at different times different amounts of traffic things like that the wheels and tires i wanted to mention because people always want to bring this up the 21 inch wheels with the sport tires on the model s plaid are rated for 350 miles yeah the 19-inch wheels would have arrow caps and it would be rated at 390 miles yeah that's a fun fact there's also a long-range model s that gets 402 something like that yeah so that exists um we also could have used a longer range gas car and they probably would have never held the mileage yeah when you guys left and it was like over 400 miles of range i was like what i was surprised that i just had i set a trip for the whole thing it just like counts your range miles per gallon and that thing's rated it was 23 city 28 highway i think we were averaging like 30 to 33 miles per gallon now most of our driving was all highway highway like for all of us there's very few back roads which was very handy handy for the uh for the blue crews as well yeah it was it was great to just like go on and we had a lot of we were all because you know yeah you do and also yeah yeah our back roads were basically like highways though i mean like not a lot of cars there was a point where we didn't see a car behind us for probably like an hour yeah i also had like 200 miles in a row of a single lane road yeah yeah it was great that was between placid and niagara yeah that was crazy yeah so uh i'll we'll land on this last point which is like quality of life yeah which is like okay once in a while let's say you do go on a road trip how how comfortable is the car like we were talking about kaya was like i've never done a thousand miles in a car like this but these seats are great and i feel fine after a thousand miles which is like pretty great i feel like the fatigue factor of like going a thousand miles and having to think for a thousand straight miles about the steering wheel is is reduced by having some sort of adaptive cruise control experience i've seen some videos about blue crews yeah i've never tried it so i'm really curious i'm going to watch your footage later but how did that go with the map yeah so um yeah so for those who don't know ford has kind of a autonomous driving it's not autonomous drive people get mad at us all the time for saying this yeah uh but it's it's sort of like a cruise control thing called blue cruise um and what you told me when i told you about it yesterday was that it's very similar to early um autopilot yes and so basically you can turn it on and it'll it'll drive for you and you can set a speed there were so many weird quirks about it though because like you can set a max speed but then randomly later like you'll just be coasting and we would set it at 75 because that was the max speed we agreed we would all go randomly it would just kick up to like 90. yeah and every single time it would kick up it was always 20 miles over the speed limit and i was like why is it dude like is this legal ticket mode yeah it was very weird and it would just do it without asking you and it was it was so confusing um and then they have like these weird animations to show like when it's in full blue cruise mode when it's in like you don't have to use the pedal but you still need to steer that kind of mode and it uh you had told me that like you saw a video or something where anytime it would start to go around a curve it would just freak out it would just it would just disengage this was better than that um it could go around curves but it is it was much worse at going around the curves because it would not turn nearly enough and it would almost always the wheel would almost always touch like the bumps on the road that tries to like keep you off of those heads rumble strips or like the yellow strip or whatever it was it would almost always touch that and multiple times when it was like in full blue cruise mode i have my hands on the wheel and it would kind of go around the turn but it would not take it tight enough nearly tight enough so it would kind of do this thing where it was start to turn but then it would recognize that it didn't do it nearly tight enough and then it would like jar to the right and like it just kept doing this and it got really uncomfortable a couple times where we would go on those rumble strips and it would just start going or there'd be like you know we were going super far across like america so there's just tons of trucks everywhere oh yeah and there was there would be these trucks in the lane next to us and we'd get like really close to that truck and i'd just be like i just it didn't feel super comfortable to use yeah um but for like for the instances where we would just be going pretty much straight maybe a few curves for like an hour it was it was really nice like you don't your brain doesn't have to be 100 on it has to be like 80 on so i have a couple comparisons with autopilot that i want to ask you about yeah number one is um yeah early versions of autopilot would sort of have this weird like ping-pong behavior they'd bounce back and forth between the side lanes which is sort of sounds like what you're describing especially in a turn yeah and the newest version on this car is very very smooth which is nice even sometimes it would approach a curve and slowly slow down a little bit to make that curve a little gentler and then speed back up to speed so i like that but there is also uh a certain length of time where it will ask you to just like touch the wheel or just like apply a light force to the yoke in this case just to make sure you're still paying attention yeah you told me yours was very different of an experience because mine will start it'll start like flashing on the dashboard and then it'll like beep at you yeah and if you actually go enough time where the car is in autopilot and you don't engage and you aren't paying attention it will actually disable auto steer until you put the car in park and then it'll be enabled for your next drive yeah how did the mikey handle okay so we were making this joke yesterday because i was sort of telling you about this um it doesn't like to make noise this car doesn't like to make noises and i don't really know why yeah from from using the stock to like put your turn signals on it you can barely hear the turn signal at all like i didn't know it was on a lot of the time especially if we were like playing music or just talking and that was uncomfortable but uh as far as the blue cruise thing goes um there's a little camera that is like watching you to make sure that you are paying attention to the road and if i was like had blue cruise we were going on a like quite straight away and i would like look over to the screen to like change the song or try to reroute us or something it's like if you're if you've got a giant tablet screen you have to use it right so it's not like you're going to be paying a hundred percent attention to the road if you have to use the screen um so it would be like pay attention but instead of making a noise it would just break check us what we're just like this happened over and over again this is so weird in order to like snap your attention back to the little dash and also the the road it would literally just like do a quick break that is so weird but it doesn't it wouldn't play any noises and it would just it was just beep at them yeah or like play a beep in the speaker yeah yeah like break checks it break checks you and i'm wondering if i am wondering if like that's a fail safe in case it thinks you're falling asleep yeah it sounds like a jolt kind of thing i i'm wondering if brake checks the right turn but if this brake check is like a full blown it would tap the brakes tap the brakes tap the brakes pretty hard and then just keep like keep going that to me is wild it was that's what it shows yeah i mean i'm sure there's i'm sure there's some reason for it and there's some engineers who have just studied this but if you've seen videos on youtube of uh like going a long time without like there's videos of people like falling asleep behind the wheel of a tesla and it just keeps driving like if you do that for more than a couple minutes it'll pull you over and beep at you and make you wake up it's not gonna tap on the brakes it's just gonna get off the road because you're not paying attention yeah so that's weird to me that it shows that but um yeah no so the auto steer it was helpful for me i obviously the audi's had uh it's just like a lane assist but it does like take just a little bit off your like mental fatigue it's just like kind of havoc going with cruise control the two together are nice didn't you say you encountered your first overpass yes uh like kind of like break yeah i had i had a very very good autopilot experience i don't autopilot very much but this is like i probably put in a couple hundred miles of autopilot and near the very end of our trip in like perfectly reasonable weather i've seen this example on the internet a few times never experienced it approaching an overpass which has a shadow on the road it slammed on the brakes approaching this overpass with a pickup truck behind me mind you um and luckily even in autopilot if you just hit the throttle it'll just accelerate and stay on autopilot and so i did that but it it apparently sometimes sometimes thinks that the shadow of the overpass on the road is a car and thought it was about to crash into the back of the car and slammed on the brakes yeah very odd to me yeah everything else about autopilot the entire trip was great yeah it would it would change lanes for me it would take the exit off of the highway and then tell me hey and 500 feet take the wheel you're gonna have to drive and that's fine but that was one weird one i've never experienced that so yeah um i do want to come back to the quality of life thing just overall yeah and i know that a lot of reasons that people like kind of rail on tesla is because especially like a model 3 for example it's way more about the software experience it's way more minimal you know we did that um that other really really fancy car uh we're forgetting about the us oh the eqs yeah and like it's just all about luxury and i felt like the maki was actually a pretty good in between like uh like i have a model 3 and you know it's very basic the seats are basic everything's basic and it's like i've never really cared about that after driving a thousand miles in this car like i was pretty surprised at how night like the seats are really comfortable they're pretty wide um just a lot of the like things in the car feel nicer overall all of our cars had wireless chargers right yeah this also had a had a wireless charger sort of in a similar situation to where the newer teslas have it like right in the front there smart only one instead of two the second seat little area was just for your keys or whatever the audi's actually if i want to complain about something that audi's wireless charger was the dumbest thing i've ever seen wow i don't we didn't even use it because of how stupid it is so in the center console you know like and then it has the piece you flip up yeah which has your arm rest so there's two cup holders in front of that when you flip the armrest up that's where the wireless charger is so so you either are charging if you have anything in your cups you have to put you're charging it under the armrest yeah but also when it's there you can't get to the space underneath it because it slides forward so you either can have your phone over top of the cup holders wireless charging but now you can't use your cup holders and there's no other ones in the front or you slide it back and now when you lift the armrest up your phone's there wireless charging you can't see it while you're driving or doing anything and also um it's covering all of the space underneath it so i was like to shove my the receipts we were taking in there i had to like pull my water bottle out slide it forward put the receipts in like it was re i did a weird place yeah yeah luckily i was just plugged in for android auto so that's what i was charging yeah and this had this had android auto and it had apple carplay that's another benefit because like especially with android auto i love android auto because you can be like buy me coffee shops along my route yeah whereas with like tesla you can't really do that yeah um so that was nice and had a usb-c and a usb-a outlet right in front of the wireless charger which i really am annoyed at tesla for getting rid of the usb-a chargers on the car airports now there's like one usb a charger in the um dash box glove box yeah that's mostly for dash cam but you can charge other things in it but it's like very annoying that there are no like for example like the apple watch the charger that it comes with is usb-a yeah and so if i want bull's fault yeah i know it's apples yeah totally i think everything should switch over to sbc yeah but it's the exact same conversation we had um about like removing things before like the yolk right right like you're changing you're eventually want to remove the steering wheel instead you make the steering wheel work arguably worse before you remove it i will say we haven't gotten to my full review yet but i've hit the point where i don't miss the buttons anymore it took me 2 200 miles before i really thought to myself i've stopped missing the buttons interesting without looking stock swimming uh the blinkers oh oh like physically missing yeah yeah sorry i think so i'm fully used to driving not checking the wheel check my mirror i'm hitting the blinker without looking i would like you to mark down every time because you know there's going to be like that situation you come to like once every three years i want you to mark down every time in the future from when like one thing is just a little off and you did it wrong because of the yoke oh yeah i want to see how long that goes how long what that situation is it's gonna be like uh i had to do a and turn your headlights on and flash yeah something like weird like that i just want to know like randomly when that happens yeah that's definitely still happening but the the the just getting used to it part 200 miles okay i'm used to it all right good to know so there we go and last thing i will say too is is like the amount of people who just like we would drive through little small towns and the amount of people who would just like stare at our car oh interesting was like there would be what and we had multiple people both at charging stations and uh like just getting coffee we're like what car is that and then we'd be like it's a mustang maki and they'd be like there's a mustang electric car we had so many people asking about that so like i know there's a lot of people who just like don't want a tesla because they just don't want to be part of the tesla thing that's totally there's people who have android phones because they don't want an iphone it's not about what's better about the android phone which there are many things that are better about android phones yeah but there are many people who just don't want an iphone right yeah there's people like that and so the amount of people who would probably buy this mustang maki because they like the ford brand and it's not tesla because a lot of people just don't like tesla that's uh that's the thing they got to go for them too but we had so we turned so many heads with that car it's a pretty good-looking car especially from 45 degree angle yeah that's a whole that's a whole other topic yeah but i'll take anything that'll go for literally any company out there i don't like this company's homebound yeah yeah i'm sure there'll be a point where there will be people who like tesla's and won't buy something else even though it might be better for them because they oh yes oh absolutely yeah that's an even stronger just right right now in terms of where we're at there are people tesla is the number one right now so people don't like it the same reason like exactly yeah people don't like apples it's the contrarian thing exactly underdog that's a psychology podcast i think maybe you can uh that would be fun to have you on a podcast like that to talk about tech fanboys yeah yeah maybe that's our our end for this yeah maybe if we're at this point right now we'll talk about that another time it's fun yeah yeah the first day was pretty dang stressful i will say so we're glad to have you here if you're doing a roach thank you yeah we're glad you i should have known from the beginning when i got placed in the maki that it was going to be the most did you pick it we well we debated it yeah i'm willing to be in pain for the cause well our thoughts though were do we put two people because we picked the teams already was it two people who are youtube both drive evs our car and the gas card none of us drive ev's yeah so it's like do we put people who are brand new into it or people who are saying it's beneficial that brandon and i both already have model threes because then we can compare the difference between a similarly priced car right we also thought you had the advantage of just knowing about charging in general yeah that too we put it in there totally cool i'm glad i had brandon with me it was fun you know you know sick yeah i'm glad we're all back and we're we're working on the the full recap video so you guys will get all the data i'm trying to find the best way to like package it all of this and you heard blaine all of it if you heard typing like this is the first time all the cars have like really sat down and talked so i think marquez is taking notes at some point and they're like we have two videos coming out that should be awesome behind the scenes i can't wait for it and then you can just see brandon and i's devolveness into madness like yeah i can't wait to watch that but anyway that's been that's been it for waveform this week of course it's tech timber like we're in it we're in it guys there's there's some phones around the corner there's some some stuff coming out there's gonna be a lot more videos coming up so definitely stay tuned for that and subscribe if you haven't already but that's been it thanks for watching thanks for hanging out catch you guys the next one peace so waveform was produced by me adam molina we are partnered with the vox media podcast network and our intro outro music was created by vain sill [Music]

Channel: WVFRM Podcast

Views: 171,865

Keywords: Waveform, WVFRM, Podcast, MKBHD, Tesla, EV, electric vehicles, Road, trip, ford, mustang, mach-e, plaid, model s, Audi, Vermont, Lake Placid, Road trip, electrify america, evolveNY

Id: F5iRMA93vPM

Length: 69min 1sec (4141 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 03 2021