039 Dakota Meyer

[Music] welcome to mic drop the podcast where relevancy is irrelevant and we don't give a [ __ ] about your feelings ladies and gentlemen to say that I'm excited and honored to bring you my next guest as a horrible understatement you spent four years on active duty as an infinite infantryman marine as well as maintaining the zero three-one-seven Marine sniper designation he's a Medal of Honor recipient he is the owner of own the - apparel flipside canvas and himself he's a patriot a father a motivator and an entrepreneur his beard makes fruit mold jealous but that doesn't keep him from breaking the switch and owning the - please welcome to the stage Dakota Meyer intro I've ever had my life will [ __ ] a oh yeah I get that a lot ya know i to me that's one of my signature things is to try to have a good intro cuz you know it's like the it's the first impression right yeah yeah got to break the ice and you know get right into to making people laugh and be entertaining and interesting how the [ __ ] you doing I'm good man okay I appreciate you coming up here I know it's a long jaunt and these in person ones can be a pain logistically we'll get into why this is a reschedule here in a minute I mean I appreciate you having me I've been want to do this for a long time ya know me too and we get so many [ __ ] people asking to have you on here every time we put a post out that says you know who who do you want to have on your name comes up a million [ __ ] time probably because they know that my life's a train wreck and there's like [ __ ] about it it's like a [ __ ] revolving reality TV shows well in more ways than one in more ways than one yeah before we get in the meat and potatoes I want to officially announce I proud to be able to announce that Origin Labs is our first podcast sponsor major sponsor of the podcast and I want to take a second to thank them they make all the Jocko stuff as well as a number of different supplements of their own they make badass jiu-jitsu jeez a lot of really good products but most importantly is that they've they've given us what you know we've kind of maintained as our standard year of authenticity and and just really being you know the podcast that everybody has grown to know and love which is mic drop style raw format no filters and there's no restrictions you know they're they're on board with letting us run [ __ ] the way we want and that's the only kind of relationship we'll have with with advertisers so big shout out to Origin labs were christening it with some jock ot you gonna do a quick cheers like it and we're the back yeah if I can a Cheers when you have a quick chug a big shout out to all the guys at origin and I want to say thanks alright so as you know from listening to some of the episodes I like to jump right into a lightning round what's your favorite episode of Teen Mom oh the big being Dakota it's the only one that I approve of right yeah what is that the only one that doesn't make you look like an [ __ ] dad slash husband I know they're slanted it's [ __ ] on that show no not at all it's all real girl totally legit yeah yeah what was the weirdest thing about having Sarah Palin as your in-law when you did oh yeah we're taking them all from the top rope I am there's probably too many to lose me I mean what does she like in person she is she [ __ ] the way that she's portrayed in the media and on that disaster of a [ __ ] reality show that she was on for the purple minutes yeah it's pretty accurate she kind of a train wreck you know you can say you know she you know she uh she's got a good heart that's like saying somebody's a good neighbor she's got a good heart I love it we didn't mean Sara don't see how like me and Sara don't get along at any level you know there's nothing you guys are on the same sheet on absolutely not absolutely [ __ ] now that's uh I'd say it's surprising it's not is there like can you pick one thing it was just [ __ ] weird I can't yeah I can't I wish I could but I just like the whole I look at my whole you know last four years of my life and it's been trying to trying to [ __ ] and remove it from the memory bank you talk about you talk about like trying to try to bring up memory lane like this [ __ ] I'm trying to get rid of yeah well I'm also a therapy coach I'm a life coach thank you thank you yeah here's one that's a little more your neck of the woods favorite both pistol and rifle like let's say apocalypse happens you get to have one pistol in one rifle and I want to know the the actual round that you're gonna use for those also like the actual brand of carry ammo H&K bp9 will be my go-to pistol round ooh you like for that whichever one is available oh you're not using ball ammo right you know what you know I don't I don't give a [ __ ] right I mean I may I you know I I know you get into all that stuff but I don't like I don't I don't really give a [ __ ] I promise you I'll keep shooting you until I kill you um so that'd be my pistol my wife will probably be six five cream or yeah yeah is it I mean from from my understanding I admittedly don't know a whole lot about the six five over the six eight other than that it's hard as [ __ ] to find the ammo when you do you're gonna have to mortgage your [ __ ] house to buy it yeah I mean is it from a a less drop standpoint as up is that the yeah I think you need the trajectory on it's a lot better than a 308 um he's flatter for longer yeah you know and I feel like that I could use it to clear houses as well as you know I could you know I've had a UH if I had a gas gun six-five cream or in a gas gun you know not a bolt gun I could use it for long range if I needed to and I could use it to clear a house if I wanted to yeah a man what is the biggest challenge with having received the Medal of Honor I know you know you talk a lot about you know some of the the hard parts with it and in terms of the emotions behind it obviously there's some things that are benefits to it you know whether anybody wants to [ __ ] admit that or not but you know for me I'm curious you know day to day is is there is there something that sticks out that's challenging about about carrying that yeah I mean you know like everybody around you think they have this expectation of you like you would you this is how you should be and it's like you know I'm I'm not a Medal of Honor recipient like I'm just a I'm just an average guy who got put in a above average situation and who did what any at any average human being would do presented that opportunity so it's like they they they put this unrealistic expectation on you to do you have to live a certain way and it's like I'm no different than you are so why do I have to live any different than you do well I mean to me I I can understand the the perspective on that the one there's a couple things I would say and that you know I respectfully disagree in terms of like the genetics behind being just like everybody else I mean the reality of it is is that most people don't have that component to them if they did the human species wouldn't survive because it you know that disregard and reckless abandon you know for your own self-preservation does not lend itself to a species maintaining itself you know so that's why most people don't I think it's in everybody I mean I think I disagree I mean I mean I I mean you see it all the [ __ ] time I mean most people don't have that I mean it's the same time I think it's not but I think that's I think it's I don't think it's a it's not a nature thing I think it's a nurture thing really I do I don't think it's it I don't think it's a I don't think it's a I mean look I'm that yuridu remeasured Lorenzen yeah I'm the Jared Lorenzen of getting a Medal of Honor right like I think it's either in you like it's it's it's nurture not nature like it's a I don't I guess so what what do you think about the the nurture process or the environment that that you had continuously been into the that you know propelled you to do that then you know my father and everybody around me growing up was always about everybody else they were always you know I look at they're always all about trying to take care of others right putting others first up not this selfish this this and and I think that people who are selfish are weak right they're weak because they have to be so focused on themselves to make sure that they're protected and and I think that you know with being with my you know growing up with my father and you know my dad didn't give a [ __ ] what anybody thought about him my dad didn't care whose clique he was anything care about what you thought of his last name my dad woke up everyday to do the right thing and and that includes doing the right thing with people around you and I think that like that instilled in me over and over and over and over is what has made me into the person I am today you know looking at my my dad worked hard my dad you know my dad's not rich I mean you know my dad wakes up every day and he bust his ass every single day and and you know and I think growing up on a farm of having to take care of like i'ma just have to go feed the cows before I got to eat right I mean like putting aunt taking care of animals I mean you you know about taking care of a dog right I mean like putting others before yourself of seeing that nurture of that you know of caring I think that's something that that's a--that's a lot to do with why you do what you do I would agree I think it's a lot to do with it might take just you know from the genetic component of dealing with dogs so much is that it's both yeah the reason I say it's both is because there are there are exemplary specific examples of people who have been put in similar situations as you that rose to that that did not have that type of upbringing you know so to me that's not gonna exist unless it's just hardwired and with dogs you know to me it's it's really both is that the the most important component is genetically it has to be there because you're gonna be either limited to or able to rise to the level of your genetic capability irrespective of what the training is that that cap you know that that meter peg if you will genetically is always gonna be the limit you know know whether it's you trying to be a [ __ ] NBA superstar or the best [ __ ] shot in the world or in CrossFit Games champion pick whatever [ __ ] discipline is that you cannot accomplish that just through hard work and training if you don't have the [ __ ] genetics and so I think in cases like this that kinetic component has to be there if it is there you know being in the environment that you grew up in you know having a tutelage and mentorship that you had in the Marine Corps with you know the different examples of great men that you know imposed their way of life and setting that moral example as to how to be you know a good United States Marine you know we're huge proponents to be able to you know give you that genetic perfect storm if you will being able yeah I mean I agree a lot of situations right but in my situation I honestly think you could take the average guy off the side of the road and do it I mean I didn't do anything literally the only difference in me and everybody else is the decision I made well break I didn't like I didn't do anything like yeah I mean look could I ever play them yeah obviously not like you know I mean I don't have those genetics and I think there's a lot of stories to where a hundred percent I just think in my situation man like dude I was never the fastest I was never you know I was never the smartest I was never the best at anything I was just a guy who just didn't quit no agreed but it makes sense yeah 100% it does you know having been a seal instructor and again looking through thousands of dogs over the last better part of 20 years you know again from my perspective is that you know genetics play a huge role you know to your point you know there was a number of of individuals that sat in the [ __ ] truck right so the decision that you made granted you made it but the decision that they made to stay in that [ __ ] truck they made that also what what made them make that decision in my opinion genetics yeah and the question I always have you know I always look back is you know what I if it happened to me again today would I make the same decision I'm sure you would well you but you know I but I always question that like I don't really I'm not gonna question it but like I always wonder like yeah what would something changed it yeah no yeah here yeah I mean I guess back to the original question I I can see how most people probably expect you to be the way you were that day every [ __ ] day your life and that's how people try to fight you like I mean that don't want a giant I'm not like I'm not it like I don't fight him hey you don't mean like people will go to the range and shoot like yeah I mean it's everything's like a competition where I feel like when they get around me it's like dude I'm like I'm fat not a shape like you know what I mean didn't I do enough to prove myself can we justify can have a beer and hang out right yeah no I'm tracking this what this one is from my oldest daughter she wanted me to ask you what is your least favorite flavor of ice cream probably like just straight chocolates alright yeah it's racist I don't know if you knew that oh yeah I don't like white chocolate either though so it's white privilege oh we're gonna hit all the topics on this guy's moving right along you're gonna like this one just as much have you run into Dan Bilzerian since the lovers quarrel that you guys had back a couple of years ago I haven't but a gosh Dan if you're listening this man I would give anything to meet you somewhere I'd give anything give me five minutes with you so that that hasn't been put to bed you still still I'm still pretty hot about it you know Dan you you know how to get ahold of us buddy um yeah Dan I asked everybody this what is your morning routine and this is outside the realm of traveling routine look that look like hell well it depends I got my kids 50/50 right so if I don't have my girls I I try to get up in the morning you know the first thing I do is make my bed I wanna at least get something done that day and then I usually go in try to you know shoot some emails off for at least thirty minutes and then I try to get a workout in so you go essentially right into [ __ ] checking your phone and doing that there's not you don't eat anything you don't meditate or any that kind of [ __ ] you eat until probably nine ten o'clock are you a coffee guy no I don't drink coffee no [ __ ] in terms of the work the types of workouts I at least from you know following you on social media and keeping some some sort of track I mean I know you've got a pretty good crew of [ __ ] physical pipe hitters down there that you seem to work out with fairly regularly what what is that like I guess and then how often are you going to you know the gym say where Tim is that or you know any other guys like that usually depends on my travel schedule uh honestly I haven't been in I was going to on at least three or four times a week working out with Tim and and training but you know like the travel schedules what kills you you know I try to get in there and I try to work out three or four days a week or the best you know um you know usually we do everything from training it on it to train and atomic to doing you know rolling jiu-jitsu to you know I just I I'm starting to I'm going to start working out with Nick bare Oh dudes incredible guys really really really good dude so you know I just you know we try to work out with just everybody yeah do you find that working out in terms of you know dealing with your past and and just maintaining that that mental level of balance does that play a big role for you or do you put anything emotionally into the workouts that that helps with that yeah absolutely I mean you know I have really bad anxiety so working out usually I can look like when I start feeling like [ __ ] all time I can usually look in the mirror and see why yeah just cuz you if I have haven't been getting after it yeah yeah no I know what I mean it did obviously plays a huge mental role it's kind of like me look it's get sky light you know you you told me this back four years ago I mean it's kind of like you know with your dogs right I mean you know you take them out even if you don't work on that day I mean you gotta get them out and they got a run like right you got a if you ain't if you don't leave them built up for three days in the house yeah watch what happens yeah it's a [ __ ] train wreck in there I mean yeah it's it's it's all about balance in terms of the way you say you don't eat until 9:00 or 10:00 do you prescribe to a specific eating routine or style now you gas station food [ __ ] burritos and gas you do gas station sushi Zoe - no no I stay away from that but like I can I'm pretty much like a gas station connoisseur I can tell you what what's a good gas station what's not allowed me obviously I'm Bucky's Bucky's is kind of like these not even a gas station no it's not like that's like filet mignon at the guests at Benihana of gas yeah I mean you can't Bucky's doesn't count Bucky's is [ __ ] ridiculous is what it is but we talked about that this morning when I stopped at Bucky's on the way here what can I say Bucky's is like in a second adventure yeah I mean it's uh yam is really nothing else like it I mean it's you mean it's kind of like Costco I guess though and that you can't go in there and like $300 later in an hour like [ __ ] I stopped for gas yeah and to piss I'm 300 bucks light in my wallet and I've been here for a five have you ever seen a Bucky's it wasn't busy no oh I mean I don't give a [ __ ] what time to go either beat 3:00 in the morning there's a [ __ ] 200 people it may have more they have more gas pumps than anything else have you I don't think usually you're looking where you can get in there yeah no no the place is [ __ ] absurd I unfortunately they're not public and they don't have any plans to go public that is a company I would [ __ ] best in yeah do you have a favorite gas station food oh it's the go-to the go-to for me I like I mean if we're gonna talk Bucky's at Bucky's counseling gas stations I would go for the brisket sandwich yeah a nice brisket talk to me I got a disqualify that me like let's say you go into a [ __ ] 7-eleven or a quick trip or if I can come and go yeah I mean look you know you go to you can always at 99% of gas stations you can go in you can always find sweet and hot beef jerky yeah right so like that is like a sure thing it's kind of like a reserved inside your you know your in your in your parachute yeah but if you can go in and you can really get it either either pizza usually pizzas really good or you can get into the you know if you got to be really careful with the chicken strips because sometimes they're overcooked and they've been there a day you know I've been there really be careful I know but yeah usually that or I'll tell you what else if they got [ __ ] hot dogs well I don't know [ __ ] about hot dogs I'm like the shape the lie to make you play chubby bunny with hot dogs don't you maybe I play hide the monster in two at a time yeah he pulls one out driving down the road where'd you keep that at Mike that's our secret yeah yeah show me where it hurts the [ __ ] Jesus Christ we're getting off track all right so moving right along in your book you talk at length about and you've already referenced it now the the childhood and to me and there was a couple thoughts I had but I'd love for you to kind of expand on them is that growing up on that childhood farming in Colombian is Colombia where where I met you first it is yeah yeah that's coming the farm where you met me is actually where I grew up okay so you talked about essentially having three father figures none of which were your biological father can you speak to that that childhood and kind of synopsize what that was like yeah I mean you know I got look back and I was so fortunate to be surrounded by you know incredible people just just to always hold me accountable right not to tell me what you know to set the example and you know I also talked about in the front part of my book you know I learned at an early age in life that just because your blood doesn't meet your family and I think that's what you know what that means you take coaches were always a huge role in my life I mean you know everybody from coach Griffis to you know Coach Robbins and you know you go down the list of coach Hodges I mean they just you know they always they always work huge role in my life authority figures you know I wouldn't listen to teachers mm-hmm I tell you what if they said something I did it and I would you know I didn't wanna let them down I the people always named for the people I never wanted to let down you know and you take I mean just to just to give you a reference here you take my dad I mean it's hard enough means you know you got kids it's it's hard enough to wake up every day and be a damn good dad to what's [ __ ] impossible to your own kids right yeah you know my dad chose you know he adopted me at a young age and chose to take some other man's responsibility you know and raised me as a father I mean I couldn't I couldn't imagine that you know I mean and I think that that right there it's just a correlation of the type of like environment that I was raised in when he uh he didn't date your mom for very long you know right so I mean he rogered up for that responsibility and and then sustained it after the divorce No right like I mean you talk about that sustained it pay child support and for the first ten years of my life paid child support for a child that wasn't his yeah and then still came and got me every other weekend and on Wednesdays do you have any relationship with your real dad you know he truck I don't know who he is he tried a guy tried to come out a few years ago and bet his wife approached me it's like hey you know this happened here this guy who did this or whatever I was like I just wrote him back and I said you know we'd like to do a DNA DNA test and I showed him back and I said look I said I don't need a DNA test I know who my father is you know you know I mean it what does it really matter right like you know I mean that it's kind of like you know those genealogy [ __ ] right like oh you know me to a certain extent who gives a [ __ ] who gives a file I mean it's interesting I wouldn't do it just for the from a privacy standpoint like I'm not sending my [ __ ] DNA to I don't know who yeah but no I think that's a really good point though is you know looking at it like your life was what it was because of the of the men that played the role that they did and and that's all that really matters yeah I think that's important it hats off to - Big Mike gray I think Mike [ __ ] Christ incredible I'm telling you I got a name like that it's hard to argue yeah yeah I mean let's be honest that's right yeah as you you grew up you know working hard is one of the stories you mentioned the book it's talking about spearing tobacco plants without any [ __ ] protective gear on to the point where you actually get nicotine poisoning basically and it sounds like it kind of almost shut your [ __ ] liver and kidneys down like you couldn't piss do you think that there was any predisposition because of that that led to maybe getting rhabdo yes you know recently what it what happened was it's like when you get nicotine poisoning it's kind of like alcohol poisoning right like you just start throwing up and basically dehydrate yourself so we would get that every year I mean basically you know we're out there and no shirt shorts and cutting tobacco because it's a hundred and some degrees right you're soaking up that nicotine through your skin you're sweating your pores are open and it's just an overdose of nicotine yeah and you just start throwing up your body's trying to get rid of it and so we would get it every year and that's why like I can't I I could dip and smoke when I was deployed but right now if I put a dip in I forget this Isis militants I smell it I'm spinning um but no you know this rhabdo thing actually I'm pretty sure it came from banging energy drinks no sure yeah shout out to bang yeah thank you drink yep I mean Hosko for a week no she had one thing and so that you know for the listener we we had scheduled this last week and he was in the [ __ ] hospital with with rhabdomyosarcoma nor pushing themselves physically too hard for too long and and it essentially shuts your body down your liver and they're you know you're pissin [ __ ] coke if if at all but you know back to the well first of all obviously they released you you're right and you need after-effects you're good to go now great you go on a bang energy drink oh I'll never I'll never put a banging me again if you drink bang it sounds wrong don't ever drink another bang I'll never put a bang in me every yeah [ __ ] I bet we can get your mind right on the so back to the tobacco stuff though that was a big party you growing up was you know harvesting and spearing tobacco plants which is physically exhausting [ __ ] work I'm assuming that that's another component to teaching a good work ethic and being a big partier upbringing and you talk about some of the the other workers that were there and being impressed by their work ethic is that something that you feel like has stuck with you to to today yeah I mean you know I mean we had to map I had to work for everything I had growing up you know my is just me and my dad and you know we had a farm when we had a lot of stuff to get done and you know how I was telling we were actually talking about on the drive up here you know I I I didn't know that there were options right my dad woke up and it wasn't like a negotiation it wasn't like a hey I'm I'll do this like my dad didn't bribe me like my dad wasn't like oh hey if you do what you're supposed to do I'll give you this right like it was never that it was just expected and you know my dad would get up and I mean he'd get up and be like hey I left you a list on the table I want it done by the time I come home that's it yeah that's it you know I if you didn't do what are you getting your ass kicked you know my dad my dad really you never really put his hands on me I mean my dad just it was like you knew damn well the expectations and you knew that like if you don't do this well you're either gonna have three times as much on you tomorrow yeah or you're not gonna be able to do what you want to do like you knew like in my dad would always you know like I'll never forget it it gave me a cellphone he's like hey here and here's two hundred fifty text messages this cellphone is for me to communicate with you that's what it's for right yeah you call those text messages like you're grounded 30 days or grades or whatever and I knew for a fact that if my dad said it it wasn't gonna be let off at 29 you know it wasn't gonna be all with your friend want you to come over and you're gonna miss this opportunity yeah like I mean I'll never forget I knew every year at the end of the year when my final report card came in it was season above my dad my dad had low expectations for me so I need you to get at least a 2.0 yeah exactly yeah you know that wasn't very smart so at least he was fair about it but if I got a D I was grounded the whole summer yeah and I knew my dad meant that like when my dad said something he meant it yeah did you ever send him an accidental dick pic on the text messages yeah that's back before like they had cameras but they had cameras but like you'd have to get on your computer and pull it up and stuff yeah there's a little bit of a generation gap there cuz they sure as [ __ ] didn't have cell phones when I was in high school but I mean they had a my sins you want bad girl you mean another one another one you talk a lot about hunting um and that's something admittedly like I I did very little of I didn't shoot a lot growing up you know my dad took me and my two older brothers shooting a few times but didn't do a whole lot of it you did quite a bit of it from the sounds of it and you talked about that kind of preparing you for some of the instances in combat can you talk a little bit about them yeah I mean you know I'm I was 8 when I killed my first deer you know I can remember it vividly right now I mean you know and it's it's not something you know if obviously I look at it different now than I did back then but you know taking an animal's life taking anything that lives life is like it's a serious deal yeah you know but I grew up doing it I mean I grew up hunting on my own you know I mean like going out I mean it was just a part of life right go you know you didn't shoot anything that you were gonna eat right I mean I was around guns they were just around right I mean you know we grew up on a farm and you know you you're always out hunting squirrels and when it's not squirrels it's rabbits if it's not rabbits it's you know you go shoot turtles out of the pond because they bite through the cows right I mean it's it's it's just a way of life did did your dad was your dad the biggest influence in terms of teaching you to shoot at that age yeah here I'm curious like looking back on it now having had a significant amount of formal military training both sniper and infantryman wise contrasting it to what he taught you paralleled or is it very different like was he a really good shot and and taught you good habits or were there things where you're like [ __ ] I wish he wouldn't have shown me this or did you did you find that he had some bad habits I mean I think yeah I mean obviously me like we don't like you know growing up on a farm it's not like you've got like a tactical you know tactical scope and you know it's not like you've got you know you let me get these rings because you know they're gonna make sure the scopes not off I mean it's like you pulled it like you pull your D rifle out and you go shoot it two or three times before you go deer hunting the next morning and the things sitting up all year long you don't know anything about holes you don't know anything about you know I mean you don't you don't know anything like it's just a you know I mean usually we were shooting open sights I mean Adam I usually hunt the most with a 30-30 open side ya know thirty third is one of my favorite favorite [ __ ] guns Oh lever actions tough to beat I'm curious I like from a technique standpoint though I mean even just the basic fundamentals and marksmanship was you know were there consistencies between what he taught you and what you learned in the in the Marine Corps I mean shooting shooting shooting right like you know like how can you manipulate this weapon system without making it move by you doing something so do I think there's a correlation I mean I think he gave me the basics I understand I think he gave me the basics of of how to use those weapon systems the best that he knew yeah I mean but do I look back and I'm like yeah that that that this makes a lot of sense of why I was shooting them you know why I was why I was why I wounded more deer than I killed yeah so they definitely refined you in the Marine Corps to learn the legitimate [ __ ] fundamentalism but a lot of it probably had to do that I didn't really listen to him yeah I mean some of the best shots I've ever [ __ ] met and been around were guys that grew up you know being taught by by their dads and and our grandfathers some of which had no you know formal trainer or whatever I mean there's there are a lot of guys running around this country that are incredibly [ __ ] capable and lethal that have never you know served or done anything but run around the woods [ __ ] hunting but I was not that great of a shot I mean I'll be honest like even in I mean I was a sniper but I wasn't I don't think that I ever got really good at shooting until probably a year after becoming a sniper like him you know when it started clicking I started taking it serious I started taking I got more serious about it right like in Sniper school I just kind of got through it like oh hey I just need to get through this I mean it was like not even a huge percentage in Sniper school the other part of his knowledge and stalking and you know patrol like I just I just got through it you know I mean and then I think after I got in the platoon and I started really taking things serious that was when I became a better shooter yeah it was a lot of it on the job training because I mean you had a fair bit of engagements and in real little trigger time you know in real world combat leading up to you know prior to the the into the fire account you know and God regal but it was that a big part of the learning process yeah I mean look a like I'm sure you me I'm sure you know this like shooting on a target and shooting ranges very different it's it's not even close to the same thing of getting your ass shot at mmm and then engaging a human being I mean it's a significant act to take another human's life yeah at the same time being in the same act of someone taking your life mmm you know and and of wanting to take your life yeah and then I don't mean so you talk about like you can't correlate like I'll never forget I used to think that like and I mean I did a ton of stress drills right as far as stress shooting but I always thought it was dumb you know I mean I always thought it was dumb like well this isn't gonna be like counties in real life you know it's a [ __ ] million times worse I don't think I've ever took shots did that my you know that I wasn't maxed out yeah you gotta me no no well the other thing with the the 2-way range aspect of it I know for me I mean that changed my entire life frankly it was you know the very first time you ever really get shot at where it's real [ __ ] close you know you know it's intended for you and it almost hit you for me I'm assuming it's the same way for most people I know everybody's a little different but for me that changed my perspective on life cross the [ __ ] board you know at the flip of a [ __ ] switch but you know and every time it makes it real yeah you know yeah I mean I remember the very first time we ever as a platoon took a guy's life and afterwards you know were there right right by his body and I remember for me I mean I was 22 or 3 at the time you know I remember taking a knee and being right next to him looking down and seeing this you know lifeless slumped [ __ ] body and thinking like it it just it was like a slap in the face you know of saying that could have just as easily been me and them you know taking a knee around my [ __ ] body figuring out what you know who hit them and where it what kind of damages you know almost doing like a little mini BDA of of seeing what what you did and then for me you know that those two experiences at least for me in combat were we're absolutely [ __ ] enormous ly life-changing yeah I mean it it takes this you know I mean cuz we trained for everything right I mean you know I know that before we went over we did this one range then I mean they actually had they had pyro guys from Hollywood they're you know given a simulation of just it was basically a mass casualty and I you know there was a lot to it right I mean there was a lot of I mean they had guys there with no legs like really guys with no legs that you know it was probably the most it was it was probably the most realistic training I ever had it was like 29 palms no and I'll never forget that like after I left there like I was so overwhelmed with trying to triage me I guys wounded every you're trying to take the enemy down they're still moving on you and I never forget leaving there I was like [ __ ] this will never happen yeah like I'm glad we did that this will never happen though and you know September 8th made that like it was a cakewalk yeah no I know what I mean you know the the realism of training has come so far in the last couple of decades but agreed you know to me there's and it's similar there's so many parallels between you know trying to prepare dogs for combative situations whether it's military police whatever and and going through as a soldier and no matter how realistic any training ever is you know no matter how many resources you have the training areas the [ __ ] you know how complex the the actual scenario itself is there is always an element in the back your mind that understands it's still training that there's some sort of safety net there and and that your life is not on the line the same way that it is when somebody's legitimately trying to [ __ ] take it and you know hats off to you know to all the cod training cadre that do their best but but nothing I mean you know that I mean you know and another factor of it is is like I mean I you know I don't know about you I'll speak for myself because I try to speak for other people and just you know categorize everybody like this but I mean there there is a factor of I've taken another human beings life mm I mean there is a factor of of knowing that that you're you're about to end this person's life I mean it's not like you're beating their ass yeah I mean you're about to change the course of history for a force of history for a family yeah and whether you know I've always said whether you know whether you think you're right or they think they're right nobody over there thinks they're wrong yeah everybody thinks they're right ya know it's it's a tough tough spot to be in and one that you know you can try to explain it to people that haven't been there as best you can but it just isn't the same as going through it leading up to joining the Marines it seems like you know the the takeaway I took from reading is essentially your ego got into the Marines really the if you can tell a quick story of being in the cafeteria with the recruiter yeah yeah you know I went to the cafeteria and the recruiter was in there and I started asking lots more like questions right I mean I thought I was I mean I wasn't that good at football but I thought I could go walk-on somewhere I was good enough to walk on somewhere I play a d2 school and I just started asking lots more like questions and he's like what do you do when you graduate high school and I puffed my chest up I'm like well I'm gonna go whoop your ass yeah well somewhere and he's like that's what I do too cuz you make it as marine hahahaha you know I was hard-headed I mean that's still am but I'm still me and my daughters are both still working on the no word taking no very easily so I you know I left and went back and it just it pissed me off like I was like okay this dude told me I couldn't do what he does really yeah and so I went back and I was like hey I'll get my transcript let's go do this and so I went signed up that day that were two things what was the the knee injury that you sustained in football yes I got took a hit to me and I stretched so first hit I had to her first time I messed it up was between my sophomore junior year I had actually failed down his heel hit a rock and it nicked my patellar tendon and they had to sew it all up so that was one problem and then turned around I stretched my MCL and so I had to go in and get scar tissue taken out and so you know that those were the two I've had two knees her but one or two knee surgeries yeah so obviously that prevented you know the path going into him to play higher level college ball did you look at any other services or was it just the dude said that you know like [ __ ] I'm gonna be a marine then yeah it was just Marines I got you know I mean I've always seen like you know the army guys that showed up the National Guard had showed up at our school all time they were there the most yeah but I just I don't know I didn't feel you know I tell you this I wasn't challenged by them yeah and that's what got me to do it it was that challenge from that marine yeah that's a it's funny how I'm sure how calculated and and how many times I'm sure that that tactic has worked with guys in your shoes but yeah not that I'm immune from [ __ ] like that let's be honest so you you go home you're your dad and grandpa are kind of mixed emotions is that a safest you know my grandfather was marine I think my dad just didn't want me to make a hasty decision and so yeah right based on your ego based on my ego yeah so he knew how hard it I was and but you know he signed the papers for me yeah if you could synopsize the the bootcamp infantry experience for those that are maybe less less familiar obviously without chronologically outlying the entire [ __ ] experience but yeah I mean give a sense for marine boot camp because obviously it's portrayed a lot in movies and and whatever in there there is an element of that that you know because I'll tell you the [ __ ] Navy boot camp is a joke yeah I got in worse shape you know I showed up in better shape than when I left there no marine boot camp I mean you know they they know what they're doing like they got it right there's a reason they do it the way they do it at the time I'll say this at the time it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through now after looking back it was the easiest part of my Marine Corps training I mean it was just a lot of physical a lot of just you know I think it was what you know it taught you how to I'm not gonna say find that switch but it taught you to find that switch of aggression right of that in you and so I think that's what it did is it drove you down it broke you down they're so smart about it because what they do is is I spend the first third of it breaking you down beating the [ __ ] out of you right like just showing you that you're nothing by yourself they spend the next third of it teaching you the history of the guys that went before you learning about Marine Corps history why you had the blood stripes down the leg of the you know why your uniforms the way it is of who you know the the legends are that have gone before you the battles of béla would like all down the list they teach you the history of what being a Marine is and who that is and the standard that you have to live up to and then the last third of it they teach you how to live that standard you know and it's it's a it's a really methodical way of doing things there's no no two ways about they have their [ __ ] wired tight I mean the one thing that I always marveled at with you know Marines that we worked with and there was even a couple that you know that were former Marines that that came in in two buds that that I went through with it kind of reminds me a lot of the state of Texas honestly in terms of the pride in the unit that you know like I've never met a more prideful [ __ ] group of people than Texans same thing with Marines but I always marveled at it at exactly what you're talking about in the in that second third of I mean holy [ __ ] those guys know the history they know the [ __ ] birthday they know you know like no other service really you know gay guys aren't aren't as anywhere near as knowledgeable you know collectively and I have not met a single [ __ ] marine that didn't know all that [ __ ] you know just like the [ __ ] like it was their own social security number yeah I mean it's you know because I think that like for you to know and for you to be able to live you know to me being a Marine it's not it ain't just a title it's a way life though absolutely I mean you know for all those pieces of it and I mean I go back I'm like I get more pissed off when people call me a Medal of Honor recipient like no I'm not a Medal of Honor recipient I'm a rifles on route dammit I mean I states marine yeah you don't mean like that's what I am yeah the as much of the almost sibling rivalry and competitive nature between the SEAL Teams and Marines you know off-duty or peacetime or just outside of actual bullets flying there is no [ __ ] I'd rather have with me you know and they proved themselves with us a number of [ __ ] times where you know I wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for them granted there was a couple times where I almost wasn't sitting here because of them but but you know they're you know what we gave our effort yeah whether it was trying to save me or trying to kill you know everything ya know that there yeah I mean you guys are [ __ ] amazing amazing people to have around and and that's what like you know that's the part for me like it makes me proud to be a marine it's like we're nothing we're not people who you know we're not high speed like there's nothing high speed about us right but you know when you look at us like we don't show up I mean you know when people talk about Marines like they talk about Marines yeah right like they don't talk about infantry snipers whatever else they talk about Marines right like d'azyr you're all the same we're all the same and like that's what I always appreciate you know everybody always talks about they always say exactly what you say they've either tried to kill us or they strive tried to save us but they always I've never heard especially SEALs you know especially SEALs say yeah there's not a group that I'd rather have around me than that I mean marks the trail talks about all the time I mean I mean you go to enlist like all the guys I know they're like you know what like when the Marines were around us they would do their job yeah you know we were attached to the 1st Marine Division going you know from Kuwait all the way up into Tikrit there's a couple times we were just with the 15th mu and and but you know we had La ours and la V's you know almost at our disposal most of the time we were in Iraq and yeah I mean it was we were rolling around and for unarmored Humvees two of them didn't even have [ __ ] doors on them and yeah I mean there was a number of times where were those guys saved our ass I remember one one instance this was north just north of Baghdad going up you know we were convoying basically up into Tikrit and we did this little reconnaissance basically to make sure a couple of bridges and choke points were sufficient to get some of the big armor across and we went you know pre pre-dawn everything was cool totally calm you know it was pretty pristine little you know village outskirts in northern Baghdad we come back get in the middle of the [ __ ] convoy you know six hours later we're back where we were and at this point it's you know [ __ ] noon or midday whatever do you didn't even recognize the place I mean you guys went through there and just [ __ ] ruined everything like you know and mattis was in charge of you know one Mar div at that time and and it was just it was [ __ ] awesome to see like we'd go Amy be it like up to your ankles and [ __ ] brass in certain spots and buildings that didn't exist that were there six hours ago and yeah it was just it was [ __ ] awesome too today I had to see the [ __ ] waste that you guys would lay and then going up into Tikrit same thing I mean we were with the entire 1st Marine Division and SEAL team three echo platoon sweeping into Saddam's hometown we ended up taken down his palace and and you know being there for several weeks afterwards but it was just it could not have been better to have you guys there the way that you did the way you guys conducted yourselves and I say you guys because it's you know you guys are all cut from the same cloth it's all lies if you could just if you can kind of speak to the the infantry experience and then being stationed in Hawaii and what was that yeah I mean you know infantry school chemistry was anything as eight weeks maybe eight weeks I think so went to school of infantry you just learned basic infantry stuff you know patrolling and basically just you know seeing if you can cut it I mean not really see if you can cut it but you've already became a Marine but you're not you know you're just basically learned that the basics you know and became a no 311 went through that and then went out to Hawaii where you know you figure out after eight weeks we're gonna be stationed yeah stationed out and why and then that's where you don't with the 3rd battalion 3rd Marines what where is the infantry school at no sir those are more than one of them yeah there's two there's one of the East Coast one west coast but I went to East Coast you know so if you're east of Mississippi you go to Parris Island if you're west you go to there's a penalty penalty know what I mean but in in that eight weeks of training how big of a group are you at that point I mean it's a lot I mean I was yeah I mean it was a big group I mean Batum was probably a hundred people yeah any relationships that you forged then that you still have today no you know not really I mean I still talk to some of the guys right because most of the time you know the people who I was with they went to 3rd battalion 3rd Marines as well then we got split up right I mean I talked to a few but no I don't I don't really I don't really talk to many of them yeah I already talked to me you know I don't really a lot of Marines I serve with I don't really have I really talked too much now when you went to Hawaii there was a you know again just referencing the book there's a couple of instances of kind of finding your way and and you know realizing your niche and having some you know some good experiences with some guys and some less than good because of your hard-headed ego type type in nature can you can you talk about some of the struggles that that led up to your first Iraq deployment yeah I mean you know I tell you one of the guys that did you know change changed my life is Danny Kreitzer you know when I got there they just came back from they've been in the triad and so they've been in Haditha you know and they lost they had a hard deployment I mean they lost a lot of guys you know in Danny kreitzer I mean you know he I still talk to him today the guy is he was my he was our squad leader and that guy gave a [ __ ] you know I mean like he he he gave a [ __ ] woke up every day to make you better right but he's hard I mean he was a hard dude and he was what 30 then yeah he's an older guy but the guy you know I look back at and now at the end I was pissed off because you know every other squads doing nothing there's not annoy diners in the squad that's you know how to hear patrol and looking for IEDs that he's like he's doing his own training mm-hmm and uh you know and and and you know he's the guy they'd walk in and give me an online right now and like you didn't know it like I mean you know just the guy made sure we were more squared away than everybody else yeah and I look back at it now and I you know I after after September 8th a lot of [ __ ] came to circle with me right like a lot of stuff really clicked I was like a lot of stuff that I thought was really dumb gosh man it made a lot of sense no and that's one guy right there that that I could say I mean and there's probably there's pipe 10 guys throughout my life that if you took them out I'm not standing here today looking at my daughter's no and he's definitely one of them you know yeah you know to me there's a lot of parallels between guys in that position and and very similarly with me I've mentioned it on a number of episodes that you know there's 200 or so [ __ ] you know grown-ass barrel-chested freedom fighters at SEAL team 3 that are responsible for me you know turning into yeah any resemblance of what I have turned into and without that tutelage and mentorship of just being drilled and yet hardcore that that way you know through blood sweat and tears and etc you know neither of us would be there but I see a lot of parallels with parenting you know in that like a lot of times you know that that adage that everybody jokes oh this hurts me more than it hurts you like it that's [ __ ] accurate that was it like it's not your job to be your child's friend you know you've got you you have to and it's imperative that they know that you're there to protect them and that they're safe with you but but you know so many times people take it easy on them and you know want to be friends with them and win a [ __ ] popularity contest and then end up [ __ ] their kids over and there's a lot of things that I know for me growing up my parents weren't especially hard but they didn't put up with any [ __ ] either yeah you know and and at the time I was like this is [ __ ] [ __ ] why does you know Johnny get to do this and I got it you know whatever and there's a lot of that that parallel between you know raising good soldiers and raising good kids in terms of you making them do the things that suck but ultimately you know they're gonna look back on and it's all leadership yeah alright so you go to well so you go to your first before your first deployment you get the that you get to go through snipers obviously I was a challenge only thirteen graduated not a thirty some right actually dropped the seal no [ __ ] yeah you're proud of that you like that day the [ __ ] was that you say his name uh what was his name um maybe you can maybe no I would tell you uh I mean for his security I can't remember his name yeah uh he illustrious sealed no name sealed he failed out for I think was shooting no should now you guys talking out or whatever yeah I mean I guess it seems odd that I mean it because this was what over six oh seven oh seven I mean at that point we we've we'd had our own sniper school for several years it seems out of the day we had four seals in our school cyber school really so three out of four of a minute yeah one of the guys went through just a credible guy loved him to death oh sure yeah so he was a real good dude we had a guy named he was a really he's a really badass dude to like the seals you know what they did when they were in school whatever they were Oh answer your back all the time like long hair hands yeah long hair I mean it was always funny you always have those same types of experiences I know when I went to jump school at Fort Benning which they don't send us to anymore but you know as always get your hands out your pockets Navy you know if I can non-stop like getting yelled at for all of the you know military bearing and discipline [ __ ] yeah you know non-stop and none of them really given a [ __ ] but you know in terms of what you learned there that played a huge and integral role in your success especially in Afghanistan I don't mean that would you say that you wouldn't be sitting here today had you not gone through the higher exam yeah you know Michael skin is still just uh you know here's my chief instructor and just still is a huge impact in my life though so you go to Iraq with your unit from Hawaii and it gets cut short by of all things a [ __ ] spider yeah how did that affect you mentally bad can you can you tell us about that yeah I mean you know I came back I got sent home I had two surgeries in Fallujah Iraq got sent home and you know I feel like I let you know I didn't get to finish it right you know I mean a funny fact all this is is you know the total time that I've ever served in countries seven months no you know I not in between Iraq never yeah same both deployments yeah both people I've never finished a deployment yeah and so mentally I mean that's a mindfuck for you right like you know you come home and it's over something so small and it's just like a failure I mean it's it means a failure still failure but what are you gonna do about it you know I mean all you can do is is what you did you know is rehab your ship getting to get back on the horse and [ __ ] and go back but um so how long were you in Iraq for then - I - Monty months yeah so you come back and get surgery or hands all [ __ ] up and then if you could kind of explain the process of of how you ended up in Afghanistan because I know it was you know kind of a volunteer advisory yeah and what your thought process was well I had to get my hand back together you know the unit came back and then obviously you know when the units come back everybody you know the seniors you know usually get out if they don't reenlist or everybody's moving right everybody moves over three or four years so they come back we got a new - sergeant Gary sorry so - Rodriguez and just he's another incredible guy and so I became a I wasn't a sniper Tingler in the beginning I was Lance Corporal I was only one of the there's only a few of us school training still in the platoon so we run some in dogs we gotta get more guys and build up and then just after you know after a little bit like I built myself up to prove that I could be a team leader and so I I became a team leader and then they promoted me to meritorious ooh promoted me to corporal and I became in charge of a six-man team and kind of just you know just busted my ass made it my way of life and so we were getting ready to go back to Iraq and we didn't really know we were going isn't that 2009 timeframe so you really at one moment we're going to Afghanistan one moment we're going to Iraq and it's like you know it's just we never know we're going so finally we're going to Iraq we're out at Twentynine Palms California training to go to Iraq snipers really didn't have a mission what we were gonna be doing was we were gonna be on al-assad I mean we were trying to come up with all kinds of [ __ ] we can do right like well we could fly in helicopters to protect convoys and [ __ ] like stuff - something made no sense right and so what do you really have a mission they came in and said hey right at the end of it we need five volunteers to go to Afghanistan we kind of asked what's the mission and nobody really knew like being advisor but like what's that mean right and so they're like well basically you'll just be you know training Afghans and like I don't know that didn't sound really that fun but I was like hey you know I I mean I want to go and so I actually let me go and and you know they put me on this unit and this service we had like 20 days to pack our [ __ ] up and to get like we had to do all these pretty quality and get all of our shots and all this right and get all of our records together and all that cool stuff and then we went to Okinawa Japan where I met up with with the team you know as a 21 man team we all trained together and then they broke you down to four man teams to where you'd be on your own base with the 80 Afghans or your you know your can deck or whatever to be training and living with them you know to do it did you so the when you you know veer took that fork in the road will say and went to Afghanistan instead of Iraq the guys that you would have gone to Iraq with what kind of deployment did they have like what if you had this Saturday I got big yeah yeah I am curious I guess you know from from your mentality throughout the book leading up to you know the the meat of the story where you know the whole mob goes to [ __ ] seems to be very offensive in nature and and I find a kind of a a curious irony in in how your mentality has switched you know I've seen some some clips of other interviews you've done or just you know bits that you've posted on social media about you know the loudmouth that always wants to go to war and and that's who I was and desires that a nice yeah I mean there's there's such a [ __ ] paradigm shift and you know you you get a really good sense and hats off to Bing West man yourself in terms of really painting a you know knowing you as well as I do in reading the book like it does a really good job you guys do a great job at that really portraying your personality through there and it it sounds like you but that that mentality you know seems like it got in trouble a number of times but can you talk to that that mentality and and where your head was at and kind of why yeah I mean man I when I went over there I mean I I was always looking for a fight I mean Howard what do you think I wasn't was it improving yourself or you just wanted to put in work or what I mean I think I just had this idea of what it was is a little bit different than what it really was yeah you know like seen too many [ __ ] movies I mean I think that a lot of times what we do and I see guys still do it guys who say they've been there whatever I don't know I I always say they say they've been there because I wasn't there with them but who still romanticize what we do and I think that like you know you you have all these people before you have gone and supposedly done all this [ __ ] that tell you these stories are like oh yeah it's cool you know chicken doors and shoot [ __ ] in the face nothing's better than that like nobody ever looks at you and goes man it's I mean how many guys sit down told you before you went over there that like I mean they all talk about how fun it is yeah I mean for me I was in a maybe a little more unique spot and that I didn't really get a whole lot of heads up because you know we were on the initial push into Iraq I mean there had been a couple deployments to to Afghanistan but but they were they were kind of isolated in nature by by comparison I know for me the very first real world mission we went on I was [ __ ] scared to death you know I mean cotton mouth [ __ ] puckered you know still went and did it but and it was vastly different you know we had trained for the the oil platform up for six [ __ ] weeks straight prior to doing and I mean it was on autopilot you know we've done it so many times you could have done it [ __ ] blindfolded and the second we stepped on there it all went out the [ __ ] window and it was totally different you know my movement was different emotions obviously were different you know it was it was vastly different but agreed like the whole time I was there it's [ __ ] nerve-wracking you know it's it's scary it's nerve-wracking and it's it's a hard hard thing to wrap your [ __ ] mind around but um when me I mean you know like we you know you know I went what didn't help is you know I you know we gotten uh we gotten a good gun fight one of the first gun fights we got into and in Afghanistan me and kenefick were in the so we had these shower trailers right so we're both in there he's taking like we're both shaving for the morning and come out and all of a sudden I hear looks like static right and I was looking around I was like we're gonna [ __ ] shot at and so you know I grabbed a tube in my 240 ran up to this corner post and I see the [ __ ] on the side of the hill right there shooting ass cuz I can see the RPG trails coming right and I [ __ ] this dude turns around to run up the hill and I let him on this is the one where you hit him in the legs first yeah hit him in legs and ran that ran ran it right up his back and if I hit him three or four Tommy I don't know who knows right I mean like you go we you know in there you can't go get him it's different you know then in a town right like by the time you got to them somebody's drugged him off but yeah I mean kenefick sitting right next to me watches me just you know stitch this guy right and there was no connection there you know I mean like there's a you said a minute ago you said it you put you put one detail in there that's always interesting to me if they put it in there like when I really know they're really trying to kill me when rounds get close there's a difference there's two you know I mean I've been shot at a lot of times where you can hear them like come over you know that they have no clue they're not aiming you know it's a different it's different than when you know a guy has got hit like he's looking through a scope is faces on a weapon and your body's at the end of yeah that sight picture yeah it's a different feeling right yeah an indiscriminate fire versus intent you know or intended and so I had a lot of gun fights a lot of gun fights before then there were I mean basically like you know we I mean when we usually go in places we don't usually go in places unless we're set to win and I had a lot of that before and man I enjoyed it I mean I mean there was nothing to it you know I mean and i walked in september 8 this is this will tell you how stupid I was I mean I would do things like sit back the army would go out they were actually I'll remember the day they were holding the door that the the day that that picture that book came you can the vehicles are on this side down the hill but this hill 13 11 I'm at remember that day vividly the army goes out there setting up a clue not a common list but they're doing a BCP you know vehicle checkpoint setting up there all day they set it there because they knew they're gonna get shot at and I told them as soon as I sar getting shot at to call me say they need more ammo that way I'd go getting it you know I mean that's the [ __ ] that I was you know that I would I wanted to fight yeah I wanted to fight and it's kind of like that dog that gets one bite in him he wants to bite you right and I want to fight and you know I literally walked in on September 8 2009 the day I walked in that Valley I literally thought that there was nothing in that could happen that if I did everything right I couldn't get us out of aisle it I really like I really and I believed I believe the [ __ ] that I said you know do you think that there's an element of almost manufactured confidence that exists in in the Marine Corps as far as that goes I think we all have it but I think you have to have it hmm I think it's a I think I think the day that you start really logically analysing what you're doing is a day you become ineffective yeah or at a minimum a [ __ ] liability yeah yeah I mean there's an element of conditioning that exists that but greed is a hundred percent necessary you know and and you you I think kind of always walk a fine line of you know dissent versus you know insubordination versus telling the [ __ ] company line you know in there and that's a fine [ __ ] line to walk sometimes because you don't want mindless idiots that don't think at all a hundred percent like you don't want to make dumb decisions but like if you really think about the risk you took I mean just in your training as a Navy SEAL yeah I mean when you can't think about it really I'm you but because guess what logically it doesn't make any sense for somebody to throw you in a [ __ ] pool with your hands tied behind your back and your feet tied together right like I mean you think about all these things I mean it's it's it's a if you think and you don't have that confidence in you you're a liability or you're dead no no I agree I mean so the the underlying theme though is that you your your perspective in that really being shot at never really took place until I no I didn't know like I could only imagine the type of person I would be today if I had came home before September 8th if all my gunfights it and that's why I always listen to people when they talk about their war fighting of you know in their perspective maybe it was fun to him but yeah I think it's exactly it is that if you haven't had that other side of that that token if you've never had to look a dude in the whites of his eyes as he's trying to kill you are mining your different perspective war fighting is different yeah for sure that's probably why we think about different that's probably why you still like it probably why I don't mm-hmm do you find yourself running in the guys regularly that you have that diametrically opposed to viewpoint - I don't like honestly I've kind of removed myself from it like I don't ever bring up by I mean I'm talking to you about I've talked more about I mean knives and sitting over there he hears me every day I'm talking to you more about war today then I will talk the entire year about war yeah I just don't talk about it like there's nothing I don't ever want you to leave and think it's cool story I don't ever want somebody to leave and think that it's something I brag about no like I don't want somebody to leave and think that I ever enjoyed it like you know what I mean like I don't really stuff up until I mean cuz it sounds like you know up until September 8th you did yeah but you know what what that wasn't that one that wasn't I I did because it was one way yeah like you know you see I always see these guys that walk around talk about how badass they arent how they you know these guys that have never lost a fistfight right they all love to fight until they get their ass beat mm-hmm and then they think twice about it yeah that's a humbling experience no doubt about it I mean the you know when you mentioned a minute ago about you can't imagine you know how you would be had had that not taken place you know in terms of being very lopsided and your oh I would have been I'd have been the guy who I like the chicken doors I just want to go back to deployment I just wanna kick in doors and shoot guys in the face right like that would have been me yeah I'd have been the guy that wore the disc so veteran teacher I think that would've been me you'd had the the with the firework sign in your yard yeah yeah our person I would had to get some attention somewhere I hate that [ __ ] [ __ ] alright so one thing I you know out of the sake of of the experience I know that you've obviously talked about the the story in depth in the book but I'd love to get the the first-hand account obviously not in that same level of detail but for the sake of the men that were lost that day and and to be able to you know synopsize and highlight the actions of of your teammates that that aren't here if we could walk through that day September 8 and how it came to be um you know so I mean I'll try to give you the best version I can of it we were basically gonna go in we got a huge gunfight on that Monday up at my base scared the chamois is probably one of the the first real you know real gunfights that did did I you know I thought I'd lost my whole team that day I mean from we had a rocket attack and I'll never forget it was crazy so later on that day we got a call that said hey we're gonna be running a mission the whole team needs to come together there so like all everybody from different places need to come and bring their canned acts and we're gonna run this mission into a place called the cage call Valley and I had read up a little bit about the Gandalf Valley before we had been over there I'm the bear went over the mountain I mean I was the guy who you know - yeah I did have a lot of confidence cocky whatever you think but I'll tell you this I promise I trained harder than everybody around me a guy I took everything serious I I knew more about medical stuff than any other anybody else that wasn't a corpsman no I mean I I busted my ass to make sure that I lived that way that I was ready whatever came down the pipe so it's only credit I will give myself I so anyway so we moved we came down the mission got pushed off it was supposed to been on Monday because we got in a huge done fighting sorry on Sunday it was supposed to be Monday and it got pushed off to a Tuesday and that was kind of the kiss of death though right and that was the kiss of death and I didn't know much about the mission yeah they couldn't tell us cuz it was over phone and we drive down there took her Khandaq down get down there and you know we get briefed on this mission the night before and I mean it was uncomfortable about the way just the way it was planned do you know why I got pushed back a day and for the listener that's completely oblivious as I refer to is the civilian [ __ ] because it you're essentially given the enemy you know or whoever in the area doesn't like you 24 hours notice that you're gonna be at a location what's even worse like you know you could do that and probably get away with it with a sniper team or what I mean it's nothing to push it to the right if you need to it's better to push the right and to make it go when it's not right yeah but you can't do that when you're working with with foreign nationals but whatever you didn't your thorn yeah especially when you when you're meeting with them all that right but it's even worse when you know the village doesn't know what you're doing but you have already briefed the commanders of the Afghan forces and Afghan Border Patrol and the Afghan police that it's gonna get out mm-hmm OPSEC does not doesn't work there and doesn't exist and I mean not against him like I don't want to make them look bad I want to tell you right now like I upfront upfront everybody's had their own experience my Afghans are some of the greatest people I've ever met in my life and I would die for them and they were as close to me as the Marines that I serve next to I didn't just lose you know my whole team that day I mean I also lost five Afghans did you keep in touch with hey guys I tried to for a long time when I came home I'd Skype them all the time but I've touch of um I mean I I miss him I mean those guys I mean I'm alive today because of them we were all one like I'll say that till the day I die and I'll tell you this they were the only ones who came in and helped me when a lot of Americans wouldn't know and embarrassing and so we were going in we get briefed on this mission I got take took out of my team and replaced with a guy named gunnery sergeant Johnson and you know everybody thinks that I had this that I just came up with this plan to go in that day me and Rodriguez Chavez and kenefick and lieutenant Johnson we had this plan the night before can you just do a quick kind of aerial overview of what what the what you guys were supposed to do yeah so we're going into the Ganges all valley the village elders that came to us and said they wanted to renounce themselves from a Taliban start supporting the government it's it's just it's the age-old deal right we're gonna go and then have meeting with them to see how we can help them support them protect them from the enemy because it's not a black and white scenario over there you know we all try to make it out as a black-and-white scenario it's not it's it's a lot of gray it's a lot of hard stuff to do and and I don't know what I would do if I was in their position a lot of times right so I want to say that on the back side but we're gonna go in there and basically have a lunch meeting with them and figure out what we can do and so you know anytime we go into a village like this you know we're gonna have overwatch so we need to set our opiez up we had Oliver Opie's there was a guy in the back who we thought had some machine guns so as we're going through the village you know we were gonna swing in and check his house and as we're setting the hopi up and that was what kenefick and lieutenant Johnson and that team was gonna do that element that's why they were in the front because they were gonna go push to the very back of the village so we get up that next morning and you know we had an uneasy feeling night before and we get up that morning and you know looking back I guess I didn't realize it to him but you know you know when you start getting scared over there you never want to let the other guy know you're scared because I you could be the only thing that keeps him pushing on just as the same as I look you know you always look at other guys to keep them you know I mean like you never went up you never want to show your weakness because you don't want the other guy to get fear too right you never want to be the reason that the team loses morale or [ __ ] confidence 100% and so you know I always look back and you know when we started getting scared or when I did at least I mean I you know I think they did too we always start talking about home to kind of get our mind off of it right and the whole drive in there from the time I was in the gun kenefick was driving Johnson was in the vehicle commander's seat the pastor seat doc Layton's in the back and fazil our interpreter was in the back and we were driving in that morning like the whole thing we talked about was home the the element of you getting taken off the team can you talk to that real quick though like so you got moved around the center yeah I got moves around was told I was gonna stay with the trucks I mean I gave a lot of argument about the way the mission was planned I just wasn't comfortable with it and ultimately the leadership told me that I'm an e4 in the United States Marine Corps so what do I know about mission planning I mean I graduated from a sniper school and held an you know an e7 bill it in a sniper team that says the Marine Corps says that I know about mission planning but you know obviously to a bunch of non-infantry people I didn't know enough isn't as they did so III you know I don't know I mean that's that's you know I believe it that's that's the reason I wasn't on the team that day because I didn't keep my mouth shut and so they took you know the best way to fix it just to take me off and put something else on there and so I guess if you could explain where you were supposed to be versus where you ended up so I with the trucks all right so you're talking about that like yeah but you were supposed to go in and do I should have been I mean this is the first time I'm from training to any mission that I wasn't in with my team and I was replaced with gunnery sergeants inand they ended up leaving me with the vehicles as my team went into the valley No so basically I was just gonna sit back there was kind of like a punishment you know mmm and honestly I was the only infantryman in the whole group and I was left back at the trucks and so we drive in that morning like I said we're talking about home and just all the [ __ ] we're gonna do when we get home and you know as soon as we get in there we we start to park and this is just help help you know [ __ ] up like they pull into Park and it's like we'll leave you know I'm like you're leaving the vehicles on the road like what if you like pull the vehicles off like I took two look at John so I'm like why are we parking on the road like what if we have a medivac how are we gonna get the medevac out like get these [ __ ] vehicles off the road at a minimum and one of my big problems I had with this patrol is is why why are we not pulling the trucks in behind us like yeah you guys can leave it's a 90 man patrol you guys can walk in but why are we not driving trucks in behind us and and this is put my hand on everything this is the response this will tell you everything about the leadership that planned this we want to remain clandestine wasn't nothing to do it yeah so there you go right I mean that's that that's the level of you know you see yeah out of that 90 can you do give me the breakdown at US versus host nation um just say 15 to 20 u.s. maybe you know yeah maybe you know yeah two four six so four yeah 20 probably 21 you know just broken up you know I mean and so anyways they they going to enter it's still dark they get out of the truck and kenefick yeah he tells you I'll see you on the flip side and starts to walk in and you know you watch them go off me you can hear them the whole time you know you're patrolling with Afghan so you know you know what that's probably like and you know as soon as I got in there the village lights flipped off and it was obviously I wasn't in there my interpreter told me that you know as soon as he was in the front and as soon as they got to the front the guys were standing there literally like I looking like village elders and as soon as I got to the village just opened up on him and we'd been set up in every way like they had all of our all of our overwatch positions had had people above them I mean every everything that we had that day was set up and yeah I mean the fighting just started and you know usually in a gunfight like this you get a hard initial burst and then it kind of backs off like you know they don't usually last that long it's like hey let me spray and pray and then I'm out of here mm-hmm and man it was like no not in this one so the the hornet's nest got kicked over and it never faded away I just kept coming yeah like you know usually kick the hornet's nest you stung a bunch in the front you know you take some calves you might have one or two stay in and you know until you start closing on them but like this is like you go from small arms fire to RPGs and now you've got 107 Rockets now you've got I mean it's like you know you got mortars coming at us I mean you know we had mortars hitting near us at the where we were sitting at the trucks and it just I mean turned in you know it turned into a [ __ ] show I mean they were ready for us I mean they staged in a schoolhouse over to the I would say it's probably the right hand side I came around remember the cardinal directions of it but to the right hand side over there and it was an american-built school oh yeah we built the school yeah they're shooting at us from it so you know I mean Kenny and me and Rodrigues Chavez are at the trucks and I knew something was going on before they got there because like it's never a good sign when they're leaving with all their goats and their their donkeys and everybody's walking out and you're walking it as they're walking that's never know look if it me tell you one thing that's not good is is that yeah there's one thing that ain't good if that's one thing that is a sure sign shits about to get shits about to go down is when everybody's leaving the village so so so we so they start taking fire start calling in for you know artillery and artillery gets shut off a lot of the blame goes the army on this right but but I don't I don't necessarily blame the army because like I heard the confusion on the radio and I can't say that the people who were in there were painting a clear picture to where I would drop rounds you know what I mean like like it was just I mean I heard stuff like well were they shooting at you from everywhere like [ __ ] like that right like how do I have caught now I will tell you this the rules of engagement were [ __ ] that day you know Stanley McChrystal put him in place and and and the rule of engagement that was in place for call for fire in a village was complete [ __ ] it was it made it impossible to do which I would like to think that looking back he would probably change that can you speak specifically to what they were so basically the rule of engagement I'd have to quote it I know it's in my book but uh basically the gist of and I'm gonna brief it was you couldn't fire within a certain vicinity of a village unless you had gone through it and cleared it and made sure that there were no friendlies in it no how do you do tell me how you do that yeah I mean that's basically you're not getting [ __ ] support I'm Stan so there was that you know when lieutenant Johnson tried to call for fire and put smoke between him and the village to exfil which is a doctrine thing he you know denied because of because it's too close to the village and there was nobody friendly in that village like there was nobody at that point there was nobody friendly and then you know there's another doctrine that you know when you give your initials that it takes it off the commander back at post if you need a grounds you give your initials all liabilities on you still wouldn't go I mean all this [ __ ] you're taught to get past these things that are happening still not people not letting it happen so there is a lot of liability on the army but on the backside of it you know there's a lot of responsibility everywhere no it was just a straight [ __ ] show and this is what happens when people go into situations that they're not prepared for and so we're sitting back and we're listening and finally like you can start hearing the dislike you know when you know guys so much you know when they're stressed you can hear it in their voice the air support wasn't showing up they kept saying 15 minutes 15 minutes 15 minutes and it got caught up in another another tick that had a priority like a troops in contact with a higher priority they're trying to track down this HVT over in the Congo and so men you know I looked at Rodriguez Chavez and just said look we gotta go in and so we he's he's all in of course and so he requested three or four times over the radio you know can we bring a truck in my idea was if I could take his truck push it real far up into Valley you know hold these guys off while they they exfil can you know about how far were you from where it was going down at this point man probably Mao know she have that far maybe I don't aways yeah I mean I could see it yeah I'm a kid why I was I mean I couldn't see the people necessarily but I could see the commotion come up or they rat right yeah but so they so requested and finally we just meet him just looked at each other and just say look [ __ ] it we got to do this I mean you know except I mean that's what that's what brothers do for another right like I didn't really give a [ __ ] I don't want to sound bad but I I really didn't give a [ __ ] about anybody else in there except my Afghans in my team you know I felt like the rest of them got their own self in there and all I had done is I made a commitment to lieutenant Johnson the last thing he said to me was is I know you're crazy enough to really do this I know you will come get me and I'd always told him that you make it to the road and I'll be there and so we start driving in and you know we got we had some Afghans behind us and their their trucks and their Humvees and stuff and the first trip and we didn't make it out hardly I you know I think we had to turn around pretty quick because I think was we had a mark-19 on it wasn't shooting very well so we got a 50 Cal and then headed in and at this point you didn't have authorization to go you just know we're talking oh yeah like we were told no directly from a major First Sergeant and I think a captain even got on their something they were willing to not give artillery support and not let you guys go and then just let their guys get [ __ ] smoked it gets even better uh-huh so we head in and as we come in we come down swim part valid as their Zeke rallies up there with Gunny Miller and so they could see they were on the left hand side they could see our truck so they knew we were coming in and they were guiding us cuz we couldn't see the road the road was kind of dipped off and stuff and we start coming down this road and we take a left and I'll never forget it's all terrorists up to there and you come around to the left then you take a right and it kind of comes in this dip and it goes up on this riverbed going up into the valley and the riverbeds the road hey man when we took the left they'd already set huge rocks up to keep the trucks from coming in yup we're Humvees couldn't make the turns mm rod Reeves Chavez is just like I honestly like I thought we were gonna get stuck there and they were gonna overrun us and kill us like if he hadn't have been driving the way that he did if that truck I promised if that truck would have stopped they'd over ran us and killed us no cuz there was 50-plus of them right I mean that's what they say I'm at yeah I mean they say that Swenson says that nobody was in there when I went in there I mean you know it's it's always it's always you know it's always something he's throwing hand grenades but there was nobody in there when I went in I mean it's pretty pretty unique but when I took a ride we took a right to go up at Valley we passed them coming out Swenson and somebody else's carry and go sorry first class Westbrook they I remember them coming out beside us drop smoke and there's a medevac helicopter landing and but it's bits back before you know it's outside the mouth of the valley and so we come and turn in pass all that start heading up into that Valley and I mean it was crazy that means there was just as like bodies everywhere and you got your wounded Afghans and they were like even if they could move they weren't moving because they're laying down on the ground and like they'll move their foot to let you know they're alive cuz they're pinned down and you know there was a guy in front of us that comes up and he starts shooting at us and I'm shooting on the left and right and Rodriguez Chavez is running guys over with the truck and I'll never forget he hit this guy he goes damn I just hit one and it was I mean they were everywhere and you know they were running up the side truck I mean they were literally so close to the truck to where I got you your 50 Cal wouldn't reverse down no and we would be pulled up as far as we could in the valley start calling for my teammates and I just couldn't get him on the radio we were probably 75 meters from him 60 75 meters from him first trip in you know I think they were still alive I got hit in my right arm and it scared the [ __ ] out of me and you know the whole time going in like bullets were hitting inside the turret because they had the elevation on me and I mean I was just waiting to get hit in the face I mean I was just it was like in a matter of if it's just a matter of when I call it the black was the black screen coming right and I got hit my right arm it scared me to death I fell down in the in I felt like my right hand got really not just sweaty it's like a whole different type of sweaty and I looked down I see blood coming I didn't know how bad I was here I didn't know where I was here and I fall down I get down the turret and I'm sitting on that you know that strap and I you know I was like we got to turn around we gotta get another gun my 50 Cal was shooting single shot I'm having literally a racket every time you know I think headspace and timing went off I probably got too hot and I'm you know I'm trying to shoot I threw it to 40 in the turret with me and I've got my m4 up there and I'm trying to shoot with a 240 on one side I had to turn well those electric turrets so the 50 count once 1940 late on the other and I'm trying to shoot with them in for whatever else I can and I told him I said Turner we got to turn around we turn around to go back outside the valley and you know I left my guys so he went out we got another truck I don't know what truck we got we just jumped in another truck the army platoon was their dog platoon and I begged him to come in and help us and they're like hey we'll bring her toe toe gunner in they tried to bring it in and I mean why the [ __ ] would you bring a toe into a gunfight like this I don't know but that's basically all their lieutenant would give us and he wanted to assess it he turned around never forget when we we headed there he got into the mouth of the valley and that truck did about a 50 point turn to Austin what happened get the [ __ ] back out of there first thing is Austin Powers trying to vote yeah yeah yeah back in that go-kart up in the [ __ ] hallway well how far about how much time passed from when you made the decision hey we got to turn around go get a different truck from the time you were there get the truck and get back how much time yeah I got no reference them I got no reference time none you know we left out that first time we did throw some guys in the back of the truck like we let him get in it's like some wounded Afghans dropped him off we had a casualty collection point I'm waiting the second time same [ __ ] third time semi same [ __ ] and what on the third time second third time we went in I had the afghans bring in their ford rangers behind us and i would jump by the truck Fazio my interpreter I put him on the 50 Cal and he was covering me and I would run over and grab the guys and the guys who were dying I would do the best I could with them and I would put them if they were dead I would throw them in the bottom of the truck and then if they had a chance to live I'd I would put a tourniquet on whatever I could do I didn't do more than an airway like it most I'd do an MPA and a tourniquet like I didn't have time you know I'd do it obviously they have a sucker chest when I put a sucking you know I put a chest seal on them but like that's all I could do I mean I would stop the bleeding a hundred percent but I wasn't like sitting here trying to put galls on it like you get a [ __ ] tourniquet like it's yeah it's about what you get and I just filled my pockets up with tourniquets - were you pulling medgar from the rear no I can't make so this is this how prepared I was I always kept a huge med bag with me and the in my in the truck so it was in the trunk of the truck so what I did is I went back and grabbed all my tourniquets out cuz I just didn't have like I didn't have [ __ ] time to put a chest there are our pressure gauze on like it didn't like right now like if you're if you're bleeding you're getting a tourniquet you know and I was over a while man so when you you were going back in each time and in the third truck basically that you got did that have a working 50 in the turret it did so we we kept him to 50s I kept the mark-19 Zout because there's just not that I didn't feel like it was reliable enough so 50s and to 40s is all I brought in yeah and so yeah I did it working 50 Fazio would cover me and I would get out and just drag the bodies back one at a time and you know I try to assess them you know get pinned down you know I mean you start getting shot at me sick I mean you're you're getting shot at the whole time and just start carrying them out because I couldn't look I mean lost comms with my team so I mean at that point when you're in there you're getting fire from you know multi different angles directions it's pretty constant were there it was there any other activity for them to focus on or was it just you guys going up there you had Swenson and Fabio and some other guys you know until about the third trip and fourth trip in they were driving another truck doing I don't know what they were doing but but it was just us I mean there was basically a one group of people that were all together and in that initial hornet's nest experience was every time you were going back in the only time it would slow down is whenever the the kaya's would come in you know they came in a second trip that we were in they came in and they would calm down them but I mean kaya's went Winchester I don't know how many times I mean we had two sets of Chi was one would sit outside the mouth of a li wait for this one to go Winchester and the other one would come in and they were just you know yeah so for the listen of the Kiowa is a is a helicopter with gun platforms on it and Winchester means running out of ammo just so that you're not completely lost you civilian [ __ ] choke yourself yeah yeah so when they would run our ammo the other would come and replace I mean I mean they couldn't keep him loaded fast enough and you know then we finally got some fixed-wing on station which is they're relevant in this situation kind of I mean there's not too many I don't say there's not to me I haven't found too many pilots in the mountains of Afghanistan who will and do gun runs mmm we did find some that day I mean they we had some guys come in you know God bless them like they came in did some gun runs for us but I haven't found you know usually pilots flying a bird that's going that fast or not gonna aim it down to a mountain and try to you know I mean like I don't know if I blame them right and you couldn't really drop bombs in this situation so on the third or fourth try third trip I think I met with their major and first time and I had accountability of everybody except my team and I finally I knew that if I came over the net the over the radio and if I could confidently say that we have for us missing I knew that all this not having assets is gone right I mean it's gonna go to the top and so I said that as soon as I could and once I said that we had ass stacked the army still wouldn't let the QRF platoon the quick reaction force platoon come in you know they asked I said we got four years missing and we begged for him to come in and they said why are they Marines our army and I said what the [ __ ] does it matter I said the Marines our army and so when we told him it was Marines they shut down all help for us wasn't the [ __ ] and so we had a whole platoon of guys infantry guys just set the mouth of Valley and who the [ __ ] made that decision yeah the guy is a major Granger have you talked to him no but I give I tell you when I pass up the ambles Aryan to get major Granger in a [ __ ] room he got promoted he got promoted like they so here's what they did some they promoted him and then they got him out but the worst part about major Granger is is he ruined another dudes career a captain that was in the talk and just just major Granger's a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] yeah yeah that's that's a dude that did then only that he'll have to you know we will die and I don't know that me and him we're gonna go to the same [ __ ] place mmm so but that's the thing is like if and that's why I've had to come to with a lot of this right it is is there's a lot of people that day that did a lot of terrible [ __ ] and not just doing it but lack of doing it to know and for me to get peace with it you know I can get fired up I could just talk [ __ ] about a lot of people but I just I know that like if they can live with what they did that day they're not you know then I'll go and try to live with what I did know so on the third trip in you know I got in the truck the the truck came over Swenson and Fabio were in a like a little Ford Ranger whatever it was at the Toyota Hilux Hilux now is visible Ranger because it's what the art that art they they had and I think he was Border Patrol but whatever is one of the green ones and so I jumped in with him he drove over to there was this one body that was way over on the left hand side that we seen and basically the Chi was when they come over they'd say spot and that's where you know the bodies were blown and you pulled over there I said I'll be I'm gonna grab this guy and I run out and there's this terrorist and it got kind of it's the terrorists kind of curved right like a straight wall you can clear a straight wall as soon as you look down in a curved wall you don't clear a curved wall like it's as far as you can see and I came around and I come up on a guy and I see him face down and he's got these green gloves on fingertips cut off and I knew immediately then it was one of my closest friends as Donnelly and Donnelly it was a 2:49 his machine gunner he loved it he was an NCO he just incredible dude why me just taught me see he's once probably taught me the most like I didn't even need an interpreter with me whenever I took him it because I could speak enough of Farsi or uh yeah Bastion I could speak enough Pashtun where they did they did both they did dari and they had so independent look like speaking of I could speak enough pastern to where I could communicate with him right so I didn't he it helped us all in a lot of situations just a really close guy and he was going home for the first time after this and he so he'd been killed he got he got hit right in them he got hit in the face and so I go down to pick him up and I got down on like my my knee I was facing like I was trying to keep my body up as close as I could to the terrorists right to make you know - because they're still we're still taking contact and I was trying to know why I was [ __ ] with him so much I was trying to pick him up and I was trying to his gear was messed up or something like I mean he'd been dead him he was dead initially I mean he'd he'd been dead for a while and because he still you know stiff like that you know how their bodies get stiff and that's probably the first one that really hit me that day I mean not that's probably like you're like seeing him dead I could really bother me and I threw him about much I tried to tried to grab him I was trying to move him over and I get like hit in the back of the head and it was not like it wasn't like I mean obviously I wouldn't hit by a bullet like he's like a fist like something like just smile he's like almost taking like a broomstick and like hitting you in the back of the head and I turn around look up and it's this dude that I mean he had this huge beard he was in I remember he had this green Welles green [ __ ] chest rigs you know I'm talking about like those green would call it hot and Hajj checks chest rigs like like a almost like those placards had two three you know we're like a Rhodesian really yeah yeah and he like had to say k47 point at me like trying to tell me to go with him and I I don't you know obviously these are seconds but it seems like it's probably longest part of my life and I just remember like this is it like how this is gonna end I have no clue but I'm not gonna go get my head cut off on [ __ ] TV that's all I could think about me I've seen so many videos of dudes just literally on their [ __ ] knees getting their heads cut off and that's like our biggest fear and I my weapon I had said it you know like when you take a knee I'm out know how you guys do it but I never kept my I never wore a sling so I was always carrying my rifle well when I set it on the ground I'd always put the buttstock on the ground and I'd lean the rifle up against my leg right the barrel facing up and it had a had a 203 grenade launcher on the bottom of it and honestly I had first off I didn't have any idea was the breech all the way close because a lot of times I didn't keep the breech close cuz I mean you know those things are they're kind of like a little temperamental they're a little temperamental right so a lot of times I didn't keep the breech all the way close to us about the fire I didn't even know if I had around in it like did I even eject the round before it like all these things start going through my mind but when I turned to look at the guy my finger kind of like just naturally hit where that in me because it's a big open trigger for that right and the safety was off yeah I was just thinking a little bit of quiet curved [ __ ] safety yeah that's coming down right the safety was off and I just remember I'm like I tell you this he would have killed me if all he heard was click and I squeezed the squeeze of trigger and it went off and then the other part that I'm sitting there worried about I mean I remember all these details is my arm hanging over the top of it right like you know when you turn like it is my arm in the way of it is it gonna miss him yeah I mean this could have the other thing to a [ __ ] forty mike-mike grenade point-blank it isn't engaged either it's what's and that's why and I I you know I knew that it takes 23 meters for the two arm and I you know I thought about that after the fact obviously yeah but I was really happy about that but I'll tell you so it hits him in the chest the guy hits the ground and I never looked at him again I don't know I got I think about him like why did I not turn around and [ __ ] shoot him like I don't know I don't know like I don't know why I just instantly go back to grabbing donnelly to get the [ __ ] out of there cuz it's like I was like well who's with him and I reach down to grab dolly and I kind of laid down because we're so I was getting weird I care was a machine gunner that was just he was [ __ ] lightness up and I was on the ground on my right hand side and next I know this [ __ ] like choking me Sam dude the same dude why the [ __ ] didn't he shoot you was is you know my fault Wow I'll give you the list of questions I got so like I'm fighting this dude and like I mean it's my [ __ ] I mean I mean it ain't like MCMAP in the Marine Corps I mean it ain't it I mean this dude's choking you out and you imagine his adrenaline going like yours right and he's choking me and choking me and choking me and like my vision just starts to I mean you get to that point and I'll never forget I was like man if my eyes go black like if i black out where am I gonna wake up at no tied to [ __ ] what tied to what right so I kind of I don't know I just relaxed and you know and I always think about these things but I kind of relaxed and once I did like he kind of loosened up a little bit and man once I could get out from under his [ __ ] arms like I got on top of him we were fighting for a minute and I got him on his back and I didn't I just I all I could think about is I didn't wear his legs to get a hold of me and so I got up on top of him and I'm fighting was way more gear than this [ __ ] got on so it's a whole I mean it's not even a fair fight and I get up on top of him and I'll never forget once I got my knee up on his elbow I got I got his arm pants I was holding his arm pinned back right and I got his other arm pinned back and I'm just trying to just maintain one [ __ ] arm like my body's across him I got my knee up on the one of his arms like on his like on his like this part right here and I just never forget that I was just grabbing for everything that I could and I grabbed a rock and it was I mean I if I picked one up the same size I'd know it and I just I started hitting this [ __ ] right and I didn't know what I was gonna do with that rock I just knew I was gonna [ __ ] hit him with it and man I hit aside the first hit like I can see it I mean I can see every [ __ ] detail of it but I hit him on his left side and it kind of blew him right like he and then like he still fight and I hit him again I hit him again and about the second or third hit like I hit him right here and I that's the probably the most vivid image that I have is his teeth kind of right here was shoved pointing back and that was a point to where he I remember looking him in the eyes and he kind of like I knew he knew he was gonna die and that was where my whole life changed I just I mean obviously I I you know I had a job to do but it was that moment that I was like I don't even know this guy I don't I don't hate him I this guy's probably got hey this guy's got family it's gonna miss him just as if I died my family missed me he's probably got kids at home a wife he doesn't believe he's wrong we're literally here because we were born in two different places any was at that moment that like war was no longer fun to me like you it was a nasty I mean which side of it I mean killing someone is murder just depends on which side you're on in and I just kept beating and beating and beating and beating and I mean I can still remember like the noises of him choking on his blood it's I mean I mean obviously like I would I'd do it all over but did either one of us really know why the [ __ ] were there I mean you know I look back at it today and it's like it didn't really look like it [ __ ] matter does it yeah that's a hard one to rationalize for sure so I grabbed Donnelly and ran back to the truck jumped in it we took off we made another trip in and on the last trip in we the kaya's flew over said they spotted at this point PJ's came in and the Kiowa flew over and said they spotted five bodies in a trench and I thought my teammates had got up in a house and was holding the house down because that's what I had to try to do right I got to tried to push forward get into a [ __ ] structure and defend the structure so I just thought that five bodies it was just five more Afghans and so PJs tried to land and they didn't land because they were taking too much fire and they pulled back up and so I told Swinson was communicating with him on the radio I said take tell him to put a smoke above the like above the terrorists that they're behind so he dropped the smoke and as soon as they dropped that smoke like I [ __ ] took off and I jumped off that Terrace and I landed in a ditch and I landed on top of gunnery sergeant Johnson and then I go to the left a little bit and there's doc late and all of his medical gears out and he's laying on top of face down on top of lieutenant Johnson who's face up and then I go to left a little bit more and there's kenefick who was face down with his GPS in his left hand and they'd been stripped of their gear of their weapons of everything and so we just I just picked him up carried him out one by one the Afghan soldiers helped me put him in the back of the Afghan trucks and we put the guns Johnson and da Clayton in one vehicle and I put lieutenant Johnson and got a kenefick in the other vehicle and I got in the truck and so we had to exfil out that was all that like we'd had accountability of everybody and we started to exfil out we let the whole piece pull down and when the opie start pulling down I seen them they were safe I got out and I ran up to the Afghan vehicle and it uh it was basically like supposedly like a high-back but didn't have the canopy over it and I ran up to that as an Afghan driver Vonzell jumped in with me and it was a half-game driver and I look at this down I'm like how crazy is this but it's a half-game driver 1-1 B equals other one had already gone back the Afghan driver bozhil me kenefick with Ted Johnson and I said I'm gonna take this truck back I just lost him I'm gonna take his truck back so we pulled up all the guys were passed and all the [ __ ] army guys that were sitting there I said hey can you give me two two poncho liners and so I just you know I just I don't know why I got not that it really [ __ ] matter right but I just like remember as I just wanted to put those poncho liners over those guys [Music] all the way home and honestly I think I wanted to do it just because I didn't want the enemy to see that they'd [ __ ] kill them like I didn't want any of the [ __ ] Afghan villagers I didn't want anybody to [ __ ] know that they killed him who they killed the Americans and so we're driving out man and I'm so glad I had Fazio with me I'm driving out man and as soon as we passed I returned we kind of go got better go around this it's probably three miles three and a half miles back to the base and these [ __ ] [ __ ] are laughing at us the villager yeah they're sitting behind this army platoon you know all the people they'd left and they're just pointing and laughing at us and I pulled my gun out I was gonna [ __ ] shoot him I mean I was gonna [ __ ] kill every one of them and I I would have fun I promise I'd have felt better about killing those [ __ ] and I would have anybody else and I pulled my gun to shoot him in Fazio's like it ain't worth it he's like he ain't worth it and they were pointing and laughing you know it was almost like you drop him down like just got I mean there's on both sides of the road just [ __ ] laughing and so we go back in and we pull in and you know you get on base and I'm I pull in and so I'm in an Afghan vehicle and they stopped me at the [ __ ] gate and they're like well where's your patrol at like this a joke right now I'm like where's the free I just need to know with freezers are well you can't come on it was your proper PPE and I'm like look I just need know where the [ __ ] freezers are and she said well we honey I got we got til I don't know whoever they were gonna [ __ ] tale right and so fine I just took I pulled one of the the poncho liners back and I stashing it for the [ __ ] freezers are and they're like that way so we get down there now all the teams are there like every team that well I mean they're bringing teams in from other teams like coming in to help us and because this has been going on for I mean a while oops a six seven six six to eight hours when you that last trip in were you taking every bit as much fire on that last trip not as much their last trip wasn't as much I mean we were still taking quite a bit but not and so once you pulled out did American forces so no wait as we came out I was friends with xx group they're reservists love the guys Maddie I love those guys and um so they'd actually called me and dad over the radio and he's guys heard it and they knew it was us cuz we had talked to him the night before they were going to run another mission but we were running this one and so when they heard what was going down they tried to split up and come in had some problems of you know commanders not letting them fine they just said [ __ ] it we're going as I was heading out they were heading in and they [ __ ] that value up all night long like they chased those dudes all the way back across the Pakistan border gonna get a lot of them and basically was empty by the time they got there but I think they found like a terrain model in there and everything I mean these guys were in there Pakistan military yeah and so I got back on base I took my two guys out so I'm a jerk Arabella I love him to death you know he came over me he said hey devil dog he goes hey you've done enough my guys will get them from here and I said your guys won't touch my [ __ ] guys I said this is this is something that that I had went done for me and is out finishes I you know it's my job and Bacchus is the only other guy that would help me obviously I mean Rodriguez Chavez wasn't there but out of all the guys who were there focus is the only other dude that helped me do it and so we moved to me and put them in the freezers and you know did the thing that we do you know we turn around put them as to PJ he's they landed had to refuel we asked if they take the bodies to Bagram and get him home and so we hurried up and got him in body bags put the tape over their head and draped him I think we put the flags on there and then we put them back in a truck put him on the birds and let him go then I went right after that and I wasn't gonna go home yet go back to base yet I went over to my Afghan side and help them do the same with their dad gave them the same respect so you know I helped went through all of our Afghan guys guys are wounded help get them medevacs out and after we got everything cleaned up and everything kind of sorted out and all the guys did they died which which that day we lost 10 altogether we lost 11 from the gunfight but uh got them all out and then we I went over and just got some dinner ok here and here on that story you know firsthand from from you and that manners there aren't really words that you know do do justice as to the emotion that I feel I read all of your book except for the story for that reason is to to have a both natural reaction and and to have the questions that that anybody would have listening to it it's the first time I've heard it I you know intentionally didn't listen to any other interviews where you talk about it and it's you know I can't imagine my reaction is probably any different than just about everybody that that hears you tell it but goddamn yeah I I appreciate you you going through it again I know that that [ __ ] isn't easy but I also think it's imperative the stories like that or are told our country needs to know what our guys go through and in every aspect right not just the actual account of what happened but the thought process is about how it impacts you but on a broader scope from a foreign policy borrow east and point out you know the decisions that that some of our commanders and above make that the hamstring and [ __ ] over our troops those those need to be highlighted and and should be held accountable for unfortunately it sounds like they haven't for for that moment and in going through that and then afterwards obviously the the swirl of emotions that that was taken place you know post that you talked at length about it in the book you know the the weeks that drug on afterwards and whatever can you talk a little bit about both where your mind was at in from then until you went home including the ping pong loss that had ultimately sent you home but also you know was there any follow-up on urine in terms of trying to hold those guys accountable I mean obviously as an e4 there isn't really a whole lot you can do but what if you couldn't tell us about that I mean that you know they did a damn good job of covering ass you know I mean like that's pretty good thing I mean it's what officers are real [ __ ] good at right I figured out a way to make sure that that they're not gonna be held accountable I mean I'd be held accountable more for a DUI blowing you know Oh point zero zero one over then they are for getting people killed and that you know that's just that's just bureaucracy at its best so they did a damn good job on the way they did the investigations and the wind and they did a real good job on who they investigated and who they asked they did a really really good day they trust me I would say they had a plan on how they were gonna get this covered up or not covered up they ain't cover anything up but how they were going to manipulate this and and set this before we even got back to base that day no so they had a better contingency plan for golf for eliminating their responsibility than they did for actually going through the mission yeah I mean I mean they did the whole investigation without us even knowing there's an investigation you know I mean like a lot of weight a lot of weird [ __ ] happened so I went back to base two days later I got another really really big gunfight three four days later where your was your mentality and or your actions and that gun fight different now because of going through that yeah my give a [ __ ] was a lot less like I think regards for my safety was not there you know I mean like as far as I would say going road was pre accurate was there an element of vengeance and retribution that you were trying to okay I was not gonna like you know I was not like I had a true reason to hate these [ __ ] now mm-hmm you know like it was personal no he's personal now kind of like if like we all as Americans hate hate terrorist organizations because of 9/11 but I bet with you we don't hate them near as much as kids who grew up without their fathers or mothers right yeah so now I had the reason and that and it was a whole nother level of just hatred and so you know I didn't I didn't really I mean I turn around got into gunfights so much after that that I never really processed it I was fortunate to have staffs are Richard and focus saw pocus come back with me and and and you know really immediately take me under their wings on Jeffers car I mean I had a lot of good guys that really immediately just just kind of like hey you got you but let's pull throttle back a little bit you know what I mean was there an element of almost therapy that existed in getting you know so to speak right back on the horse and getting right back in do you think was a good thing in a way it was the best thing for me it was the best thing to not have to sit there and replay it over and over and just get right back into the [ __ ] mix yeah I mean I mean it's what I mean I mean you know it me it's what you have to do like I mean we still had a mission to do like I know you know what's worse than losing four guys is [ __ ] what if you lose more because you know because you're out of it right like you know they they wanted to send me home to go to the funerals of my teammates and that why I mean they're dead the mission I gotta go like they're honest me going one of their funerals not gonna save any lives mm-hmm and I had a responsibility to my to my Afghans you know after that gun fight like the Afghans really respect to me we got closer than ever and I'll never forget you know when I was pulling my teammates out that day they came to help me and I said no don't don't touch him I got it and one of the half cane soldiers you know and they're they're hard like they live in it every day there if the war was fought on heart they'd kick her ass all day long but they you know one other we put his hand on my shoulder and he said you helped us carry our people out we're gonna help you carry your people out and that meant a lot to me you know so anyways yeah I mean yeah it was it was it was a whole different like when I got back he was a whole nother ballgame I mean it was it was a whole it was just it was another level up is a whole nother you think you had a reason to fight before like you got another one in there and so yeah I mean I think I think going back and getting right back into it was probably the best thing for me what what types of missions were you doing in those numerous gun fights conjugal you know so the one that we had right afterwards the big one was a combat logistics patrol got got pulled up and I they got help they were getting they got trapped in a dog ballet bar I actually send you the right up over honestly I'd never rent the right up until the other day and I read it now I was like holy [ __ ] I think everything after Gaines God just kind of blended together I didn't really remember the details one thing quick I did mention when you got hidden in the right arm and blood all the way down your your hand obviously that wasn't a operational ending injury what was that was at rest as a piece of it was a piece of about two and a half three inch piece of steel off of of a rocket no okay yeah and I just I just pulled it out I didn't even tell anybody about it until a few days later you know it really didn't matter right so yeah we that was a combat just because just an army patrol that got stuck in a valley and the army was gonna take them an hour and a half hour hour and a half to cure eff it and I just I didn't answered anybody so I just went on my own so you know we didn't I mean yeah how long does it take a strive there right yeah so I technically I fell under Afghans this was it just you with them or the other no there was so focus and Richards was there and actually what was funny was is when that happened the headquarters team had came in to pick up I just got done inventory and all my teammates stuff to send home with their families and they came to pick it up did did you keep anything in theirs I did did I took their took lieutenant Johnson's rank office I mean you know a lot of people probably get mad about it but like [ __ ] that hey I would I'd take things to remember well if I didn't keep it like if I didn't keep it like anything on there they're gonna destroy anyways yeah so I took off lieutenant Johnson's rank I kept their dog tags I took off da Clayton's rank and I took off can't fix rank no and I kept all but I still have it and I still have the cover that I wore that day yeah yeah it's cool yeah so the there was one store in the book that doing what I do for a living really [ __ ] pissed me off and it was the apriority know where I'm going with this is that when you got back that basically while you guys were going through this first sergeant had shot Annie the dog yeah what the [ __ ] was that sorry sorry Coleman so they had this deal were like I mean we get a lot of stray dogs on base and the way that they were having to get rid of them where they would they were shooting them um I had a we had a pet dog Annie she had been vaccinated she went everywhere with me like so she was looked at loose at Johnson I got I'm not really a big dog guy right we had Annie and the other dogs Alf Alf Annie I think help I don't know he was so alphas that before but Annie was a little she looked like a little yellow lab she's a mutt right but she's like just a little puppy me and she she kind of like gave us she's so funny like Lieutentant loved her but they were kind of like our get away a little bit you know like no I mean I talk about it a lot and that you know the element of dogs on an operational level speaks for itself but in in an environment where chaos and Anarchy and violence and the unknown is constant having that small sliver of what you know most Americans grow up having some assemblance of a relationship with a dog whether it's one the third their own or a friends or whatever is that brings a lot of solace to that environment having a dog to pal around with and their [ __ ] crucially important and she was like I mean I mean you gotta take man I mean I just you know I left I mean I just came back that they and the only thing I had left and my teammates was that dog I mean everything everything I have was killed and so I came back and they had this thing going on to where all dogs gotta go and so I actually went to First Sergeant that day that that day around lunch the day you got back he's a couple days I was actually still it was within three or four days because I was packing up all my [ __ ] or all my teammates stuff no no it was after after that about a week or two later I don't know but anyways I've gone to him the day that we just they gotta get rid of dogs and I said I said look this dogs good look at her she always followed me to the chow hall you know she just went everywhere with me and I said look at her like this dogs good and he agreed everybody agreed all the all leadership everybody agreed that it was okay and man I'm in the conex box getting a mo out or something I don't know I think I was setting up a new mark 19 position or something I don't know if Ryan are playing with demo or something stupid I should've been doing but uh I hear a shot at the fire pit right behind her base and I could hear her Yelp but I knew her Yelp and I hear another shot and I come out that gate we had our own little gate and I come out that gate and go on the army side and I walk around there and I see this blonde haired [ __ ] sergeant that did nothing but set in the talk he always carried around his shotgun like he you know that was that was a deal like he always said the [ __ ] talk a skinny little guy and I looked at him and I was like did you just shoot my dog no everybody bass everybody on that bass knew our [ __ ] dog everybody I said you shoot my dog no and I grabbed him by his arm and I drug him back over there and I said let's go see let's go [ __ ] see and I go back around and lay it on top of the fire pit was [ __ ] my dog that he had just killed and he's like first heart told me to do it first art told me do it okay and I walked over the army side and it's actually wet that scar right there from I walked over the army side and first my Coleman that [ __ ] standing or smoking a cigar wait cuz he knows I'm coming smoking a cigar sitting outside smoking a [ __ ] cigar and he's got this shitty and smirk on his face and I [ __ ] I hit this Hesco right next to him like everybody knew what was going on Sarge Jeffers came and grabbed me I mean it was like what else you gonna kill what else you gonna take from me you know you guys already left me out to hang watch my teammates that like what else you gonna do and it just yeah that was it though you know what the good thing was is like at least they killed everything a mine right least they took it all from me I didn't want anything left at least at least I didn't leave anything that I started with in Afghanistan no I suppose there is an element of of closure to that that's you know all or nothing but I like I said reading that [ __ ] especially when you know one of the points here the sentence is in the book you say you know I bet she came right up to you wag in her tail you know when you when you shot her and it just yeah you know again with having to make decisions with these warrior dogs you know right now we've got over 20 of them and we're responsible for the end-of-life decisions on all of them and it's [ __ ] tough every goddamn time you know but just here on that and and you know knowing what you'd been through and seeing that it for me again you know I'm probably maybe a little different than then some readers but I know it'll resonate similarly with a lot of people is that that was one of the hardest things in the whole [ __ ] book for me to read frankly you know which may sound ridiculous yeah I mean I can't I mean I guarantee you that like probably the hardest part about shooting her was trying to get her to stand far enough away from you and she's probably roll over on her back cuz she thought you were gonna scratch her belly to get away from her because she's probably coming to you to lick you you cannot I mean like not sure that [ __ ] infuriated me I don't you know I don't know how you didn't [ __ ] break the dudes [ __ ] jaw oh if I mean you know without without Jeffers that Aaron Kerr I probably would have so for the next couple of weeks you know you're getting the number of gun fights and it becomes clear to a lot of of your teammates now you know they're they have some concerns about you from a PTSD standpoint there's a female psychologist there that basically says you know you guys strike a deal where you're gonna play [ __ ] ping-pong in it question is man I'm glad she beat you but how the [ __ ] did she beat you well she beat me about one point I mean hey a wins a win but she also let me know afterwards that it wouldn't matter if I won or not so yeah you think deep down you wanted her to win no he tried tried to beat her paws didn't if that could have beat her what was your hesitation for for being able to let her decide that I mean I just I mean you know not only did I fail my teammates not didn't even finish my deployment so I read that a couple of times and I've seen you remark on it in a number of other instances and I'm curious I think it's a common thought process for people and in that position when guys that they're close to around them die and they don't that they failed them and and what have you and that wreaks havoc mentally on on the survivors you know survivor's guilt and etc have you whether it's through therapy whether it's through time whether it's through your own mental processes of you know self-reflection have you come to terms with that better than initially or is it something you still struggle hard with I'm at think it's just something you just finally become numb to right I mean it's kind of like I'm not gonna say numb to it but I mean the facts don't change you know like you talked about I mean you talk about oh you can't change the facts you're a guy who lives a certain way by a certain code and that codes the same whether you win or lose and right and you don't you don't get to change the facts just because she lost right you don't you don't change the facts like just because you don't want to see what the front of the picture is you don't look at the back of the book so it you know it makes it easier for loss right the loss of loss the facts are the facts of that day I guess what why do you feel like you've you failed them I mean they're all dead agreed you don't mean like I but I mean it's it's not art it's not an arguable like it's not there's no there's no like it's there's no really arguable facts about it right like no I mean yeah there's there's no disputing what happens is feeding um I guess my question is more from a almost from a theoretical standpoint it in that do you honestly think that if you had not been replaced that you would have been able to make a difference in that they would not be dead now and it just your name would would have replaced Johnson's name I I guess like do I think I could have saved him I I don't think I could I don't know that could have saved him but I do think that it would have been a better shot of them making it out I do think that if I had kept my mouth shut I'd have been in a more of a place of where I should be than I am now mm-hmm I do believe that if I hadn't turned around that first trip because of myself like if you think about all these things like my guys are dead because I was selfish well I think you figure look I didn't keep my mouth shut I should have kept my mouth shut let them handle it and if nobody handled it then I I should just at least I'd have been with my team and they wouldn't have had to gone in by themselves right I shouldn't have turned around when I thought I was hit on the first trip in there cuz I mean what if I was what if they stopped because like the truck turned around that's last hope that they had right what if they hesitated because that you know you know you talk about that you talk about you know and another part of it is is you know we live by an oath of you either get him out of library you die trying well if you didn't die trying you didn't try hard enough well not necessarily in my opinion and that you know to me it's you know like you said earlier is that you know your whether even if you're looking at nature versus nurture is that one of the things that you said that that struck a chord I think is that you made the decision to write just like the guys that wouldn't help the commanders that wouldn't offer assistance that wouldn't allow some of their ass to be used other guys in the trucks that wouldn't get out when you're banging on the [ __ ] window with bloody hands to even get water that won't help you you know they made those decisions to me I think hindsight if hindsight's 20/20 I'd be a [ __ ] lottery winner you know you're saying any of us can sit here and say well if I'd have done that this would have happened the way I look at it and I whether or not this proves to provide any solace for you're not is irrelevant I hope that it does is that we all make the best decisions we can with what we have at the time we make them they're not always gonna be the right one right but when I think of being in the position of if it was me right let's say that it was you that was one of the guys that died that day and just pick one of them were now in in your position if you're a dead guy and you know one of your brothers there's struggling with that and blaming himself would you be alright with that I mean absolutely not I mean I wouldn't want me struggle with it but I think that me would you want him to hold himself accountable for your death I mean I know obviously I wouldn't but the guys that I was with would I mean you know I'm saying like I get your point like I - but to me to be able to move on you know there's two things as one is that I think from a mental health standpoint it's important to realize that but on a broader scale when it talk when we talk about and there's an instance of later on which we'll get into but of you putting a gun to your head right yeah is it I mean cuz I've got I know a lot of guys who've been killed there's been a handful of them that were very close friends of mine and that's something that I've always thought of is that you know if I was in their shoes you know if I was dead and I knew that Glen or ty or Matt Mills or any of the guys that I was close with was sitting here thinking about [ __ ] putting a bullet in their brain because I'm gone or because whatever they did may have hypothetically possibly potentially contributed to me being where I'm at I look at it as [ __ ] you better not do that [ __ ] yeah I mean I I get your point you know the other problem on the back side of it is is you take the [ __ ] in the command center the army guys that didn't the the the the the leadership that was on the ground that day the Marines that were leaders that day they've all done that and they feel like they've done nothing wrong you can't control them well I know but I get your point but like that's just not the way life is like I don't I don't get to change the facts of that day to better help me get through life right like I think that I've got to the probably the best point that I'll ever get to of I just hope my guys forgive me again again I to me put yourself in their shoes well I don't you you know you know you you know you you made all every decision you made not out of cowardice out of thinking this is the best thing to do right now the same way they would have a hundred percent but like I said I mean I do think that like you still have to take responsibility like gosh like I definitely don't think that they would want me to go the rest of my life being miserable which is well I think probably a little bit of peace that I get from it but at the end of the day like I made a promise to him to get him out and I failed and that's just the reality of it it sucks it sucks to look at it that way but that's just really the facts of it and no I don't think that they want me to suffer the rest of my life you know I don't think that you know I mean there's a lot of families who find a way to forgive murderers who murdered their family members right i I just I you know that's that's the best that I can do with it is just go to bed at night and just hope that somewhere deep down that there are families that that the deal that they can forgive me for for letting them down when they needed me the most that's the only thing that I can I can just hope that someday somebody has some leniency on me oh yeah or that yeah I mean I think for me I guess it pains me to hear that element of your perspective on it because you know you you did a lot and again if because you can hypothetical it the other way too I mean you know you could say well maybe they were already dead before you even got there the first time you got there as quick as you could maybe they were dead before then maybe if you had stayed there longer you'd all be dead and I and I get it and and I don't I don't believe they were dead when we got there I mean I've read all that I mean I could probably you know like you know I know it's this sounds probably weird but like I could probably verbatim give you all the autopsy reports of them right I mean I think I think lieutenant Johnson was probably dead before I got in there but I think the other guys were still alive because two reasons my interpreter was still with them and I got to him I think they all stopped to help protect lieutenant Johnson he'd been wounded first so I think he was probably dead on the first trip in I think the other guys were still alive and I almost know Kenneth pic was because he was still in the radio initially when I was coming in and he was trying to call for fire or give a location to pick up a medevac for where they were at and that's why I found him facedown with his GPS in his hand so yeah I get a hundred percent I heard a percent get you and I and I appreciate I mean look I I do and and I I try to I mean try to I try to what if this thing all day right I mean just like the guy that you know stood over me with a gun right why didn't he shoot me like why like did you really think he was gonna get me back you know I mean like why did he not just shoot me well especially after you opened up on him with the grenade did but yeah y-you know I mean well you know what he might what if he didn't have ammo well if he's trying to Buffalo me right like you know I mean like I think about all these things like you know so I mean I guess you know to your point right is that the facts are where they are what happened happened you know at this point irrespective of what they are you know is you're not gonna change him yeah and so I think the other part that's really important is is I I go out on a social media platform I go out in public I've been handed this platform that I definitely didn't [ __ ] ask for yeah and I talk about holding yourself accountable well I think I got some credibility to talk about that because I still hold myself accountable for one of the worst [ __ ] things that I've ever dealt with you know and I don't change that because a lot of people would allow me to do that and I hold that responsibility and I hold that accountability and I try to be better because of it and I think that the day that I don't do that anymore how can I tell other people to hold themselves accountable yeah no I agree I think it's a good and positive way to move forward and keep telling that line in in their memory and in their honor you know and again I think you know just hearing you talk about it and I know for me that's that's how I look at you know the guys that I was close with Dieteman and granted I also wasn't there when they when they did but I can tell you you know the story of Glenn and Ty with Benghazi is that you know there's a decision I made to not go with Glenn into that program and and pass that opportunity on to ty that's very similar yeah you know having introduced the two of them together and connecting those dots because I was starting a dog biz and I couldn't be gone for that amount of time with Glenn hey you know you remember ty you know we hung out a couple years back when I when I first introduced the two of them and and been past that opportunity on him and I took it and and they're both dead now you know if I had taken it would I have been killed maybe maybe not who [ __ ] knows no no you know but but my my ability to understand that you know we're all grown men we all make the best decision that we think we're making with what we have at the time that we make it is really all you can go off of and I find myself and this is what the reason I bring it up is because it it offers me a lot of solace and peace at least in that aspect of my life is thinking about you know how if I was in their shoes how would I want them to conduct themselves and and you know I would want them to look at it as an opportunity you know one that I didn't get and and I would want them to [ __ ] maximize it and take full advantage and I you know what I've tried to do that you know I used to wear and and I don't you know cuz a lot of the hard part of it is is like you know and that's why I don't wear the meadow like I don't want this situation to be my identity that's the reality and no different than me being a seal as it is well but but it doesn't like it's a part of you but it's not who you are to a certain extent it's always gonna be somewhat of an identifier you know of course it is of course it is but you you know it can't be it can't it can't be who you are completely like you know I always like yeah I'm I'm a veteran but that's not who I am like it's a part of me you know I'm also a father and most a lot of the things you know I used to wear the bracelets on both my wrists for a long time for a long time in like it was a way of life and it it became identity and you know just about a year ago I well less than a year ago I got rid of them and I did it I'll never forget I came out of an airplane skydiving and one of them hit the door as I came out and kind of ripped it off right you know there's a little black bracelets had two names on either side and I was in the mid air and I looked at the other one and took it off and threw it off too and I'll never forget like that that part of my life like it I'm not gonna say it took a lot from me but it takes a lot of happiness from me and joy from me I'll never forget I a couple days before that I had walked into it's just so ironic that that happened I went in to go you know when I go pick my daughter's up at school you know I'm really big on if they want you to hold them you pick them up I mean obviously you know ruling within reason so you know I obviously see them they come running sailor came running to me and dad lives with her and they came running to me just so excited to see me and I got that joy that I always get from seeing them and they're you know they're one of the only things that brings me joy and when I went to reach up to grab them my hands right in front of me and my eyes go to both my bracelets and it just ruined the moment the moment this was after the book so it was before I threw him off I got you a couple days before that and when I was in the air and I thought about that I was like you know I'm not gonna let it take another moment from me mmm and so yeah on one side I don't want people listening instinct that I just walk around with you know my my head up my ass feeling sorry for myself all time right like I don't like you'll never I mean I try to be the most positive upbeat person you'll meet but on the backside of it like I don't forget what happened that day and I don't forget who who's responsible and I don't forget where the accountability lies and just like I hold everybody else accountable who was there that day I also hope my help self to that same accountability but on the backside of it I'm not gonna let it just as much as I'm not gonna let the good if you would say good part the Medal of Honor identify the rest of my life I'm not gonna let that identify the rest of my life I know what happened I failed but I'm gonna I'm not going to celebrate a win or a failure longer than I would celebrate either one of them and go on about it yeah I think that's it's good it's a good you know mental space to be in and it it's encouraging to hear you say that and I also the as cheesy as it may sound the the ripping of the of the other bracelet off is as the closure mean it kinda reminds me of the scene in Top Gun where he throws his dog tags into the water to a certain extent I mean yeah and I think I think stuff like that those profound moments are are crucial you know in part of that process of being able to put your foot in front of the next one and then take that next step forward and it's good to hear that you've done that as you've you know talked about me both skydiving and just kind of I guess generally speaking since you've been back skydiving is something that you've kind of gotten into pretty heavy is that yeah is that something that you think is cathartic therapy it is it is like it's my therapy it's my it's my put me like level me back out you know what what is it about it that does that for you think you know when I go out the door that airplane I mean I still get nervous I mean I've got 150 jumps under me in a matter of six months right every time I get up to go out that airplane I mean obviously when I leave that door I mean I got to overcome something every time like it's still scary or [ __ ] to me mmm to go out that door and I've always told myself today that it's not out that I quit but when I'm in free fall it's the most peaceful thing I've ever done like it I'm no I don't think about what bills I gotta pay my companies I don't think about anything the only thing I'm thinking about is what I'm doing at that moment is what you need to be that's what I need to be thinking about that and it takes my mind off everything else and it gives me this I promise like if you probably looked at my blood pressure when I got there versus when I left yeah it's a specialist you've had a bang right yeah it puts me back in up it levels me back out 22b yeah I know yeah that's more jumps than I have by the way I don't particularly enjoy parachuting I don't hate it but it doesn't do a whole lot for me I guess it was part of the job and I and I didn't you do it as a job it's different yeah I bet it I bet it would probably enjoy it if I did you know catch me [ __ ] me suits and freefall flight at skydiving but for me camping camping and hiking is that because it similarly like it's it's a primal thing it makes you feel connected to the earth and without sounding like too much of a [ __ ] granola saying that I think for me from from a deflection or a redirect standpoint similarly is that you know I'm thinking about whether or not it's gonna [ __ ] rain and wear my [ __ ] is and you know do I have enough wood for the night and you know you have i purified enough water to get me through till you know the next time I'm going to be by you know whatever is it it removes all of the [ __ ] white noise of life that sucks and we were talking about you know when you were telling me that you rhabdo and your [ __ ] kidneys were failing and I you know we talked about that a little bit for me that it does that same thing and I encourage anybody you know that [ __ ] it doesn't matter what it is you know find something that you enjoy doing that that breaks [ __ ] down mentally to that most basic human element of having to focus on what's right the [ __ ] front he I mean if nothing else you're taking a page out of a dog's book because they are right here right [ __ ] all the time you know I don't give a [ __ ] about ten minutes ago they don't give a [ __ ] about ten minutes from now how awesome would that be it's a [ __ ] blessing for sure and that's why they're so goddamn happy all the time yeah you know so I mean as funny as that is if I can think about that you know it's it's something we could all learn from for sure um so you when you got back from that deployment and you're going through you know you know that I think it was what eight weeks so the PTSD treatment facility and stuff it didn't help a whole lot from the sounds of it right you know I wouldn't say that I mean I would say um you know you gotta take that this book was wrote written whatever you wanna say whatever the [ __ ] it is whatever is proper written uh that's the that's the Kentuckian yes that's it a ky which by the way what's they couldn't do Katie or Casey or you had to be [ __ ] KY and then maybe [ __ ] jelly yeah that's the reason we gotta be good some yeah alright they're not that we're good at it you know this book was was came out I thanked 2012 October 2012 so I mean you're talking eight years ago right yeah a lot lots changed I mean I've I've only read this book one time at the final edit you never read it again never picked it up never looked at it nothing yeah I would say back then I feel like it didn't help I look at it now and I think the educational piece that it gave me like did it fix me no but there's no there's no there's nothing out there it's gonna fix anybody right I would say that that's what I learned from it the educational piece the side of it of me understanding like why I feel this way or what's going on the way the brain works of the knowledge piece of it has has definitely helped me astronomically you know you think it's from an understanding of above a processing standpoint yeah I mean if understanding like well why do I feel this way like like why do I wake up in the middle of the night throwing up yeah like well this is normal I it kind of it kind of brings it down to like this is just just part of it yeah timeline-wise when you went into your truck and grabbed the pistol and put it to your head when when was that in relation to the therapies so it was it was about eight months after so it was September of 2010 so I probably six months six months seven months later can you uh tell me where where your mentality was like what what led to that yeah I mean I just it wasn't anything other than I just like I felt like I seen the effects that like it was putting on my family like I mean I was living at my dad's house and just drinking all the [ __ ] time man and you know I could see the way people looked at me that I was not somebody to be around and it was my fault like honestly like I was walking around blaming everybody for my [ __ ] problems you know I was justifying everything that I did in my life but PTSD right like well you're you're drunk [ __ ] well yeah you don't know what I've gone through right it was my go to lying like you haven't done what I [ __ ] done a crutch for sure it was a crutch right it was basically me sitting here saying hey look I'm too big of a [ __ ] right now to take accountability for my actions so let me just I want to play the victim like literally I was making the choice to play a victim and I was hurting everybody around me and I'll never forget I was driving home that night it's pretty crazy because the road that I was driving home on now is called the Dakota Meyer Highway then it's that road where he actually put the gun to your head yeah so I pulled off I was coming home and I pulled off my buddy owns a shop he owns a shop right on right off that road it's on the left-hand side it's yeah it's a welding shop and I knew like I mean at this out thought out I'm yeah but I thought about this on the way home I'd never thought of it before he was just that night I was driving I'm almost dude I was so drunk like I should have never been driving I I was driving home and I I was like I'm gonna pull into this shop because once I pull into this shop like I didn't want anybody looking for me I didn't want to cause anybody inconvenience I'd already inconvenience thereby enough like I'd already brought I'd already inconvenience and [ __ ] there by his lives up enough and so I I knew that they'd be there by 7:30 8:00 in the morning and they'd find me in the morning so I pulled off in there and put the car in park and I just I grabbed my Glock um it's a Glock 40 40 Cal compact stuck to my head and squeeze trigger and nothing went off and I'd shot the gun the day before and you know who unloaded it right do you think you know I mean I think I know you do not want to say yeah I mean I don't I don't know 100% you know I mean to me like my natural assumption would be your dad he was either it was either it was him or somebody one other person you know and I don't think it was my dad I think somebody else and what what is your hesitation for for saying I just don't know you know what I mean and I just I mean is there an element of you not wanting to know yeah yeah that's why you haven't asked who you think it is and don't want to say yeah I mean I'm pretty sure I know I'm pretty like I'm pretty damn sure because you know that person showed up later on that night like I'm pretty sure I know you know I mean well I just I just I'm just hesitant about it just but God you know I don't know that I really want to know I don't really know that I want to come to that why do you suppose that is I mean obviously I'm grateful for it now but I mean I think that you know I mean I think it's just like it's almost embarrassing to know that somebody else could see how [ __ ] up I was you mean you could look at it from the perspective of you'd be grateful that they were paying out of college now that I have my daughter's I'm 100% grateful yeah just as I am like yeah you know it's kind of like you know you take when Katie cop sent me made the decision to send me home from Afghanistan well that's another [ __ ] something I didn't finish well somebody else may another just I mean you know I mean it's like it's for these things it's like what happen to me I mean how many things can i really go through life and [ __ ] up right I mean we all [ __ ] a lot of things up all the time of course you know of course but yeah I mean I I'm pretty sure yeah it's an interesting element to the human mind I think sometimes not wanting to know certain things that are of that that magnitude because obviously it's not something that you've been secretive about in terms of the act of you know wanting to actually go through with that you know but an element of kind of continuing to want to keep some ambiguity as it relates to I don't know why I mean I think it's weird like I agree like now that you brought this up like it mixes like at this point everybody a lot of mean most people who pay any attention to you know that that you were in there oh yeah I mean it's been used against me in my divorce I mean yeah I mean it's no yeah I mean it's been it's been used on every aspect to try to you know yeah that's [ __ ] [ __ ] me over but uh but yeah I mean yeah so I don't know I don't know why I've never told anybody like I've never [ __ ] and honestly I never I never told anybody about what happened until it came out in the book the first person I ever told this story to was being West I don't know I don't I mean I'm open about I don't care like but I but I honestly felt like it was so important for me to tell because I didn't think it was fair for me to tell people just one side of it like I had to let them know my vulnerabilities and my weak moments like I felt like if I was gonna write a book about me in my life it had to be the real book yeah you know like yeah it can't be the brochure it can't be like me picked the stories to show like it can't be the Instagram book mm-hmm yeah the recruiting brochure the 15 percent that's [ __ ] the filter the filter filtered you know like I mean Instagram we can make anything look great right only show the pictures that we like only time we look good whenever we've got makeup on or whenever we look the best and the right lighting and all that we can choose and do that right and I couldn't I just felt like it was so important to me to put that in the book that because I wanted people to know that like you know sometimes life does suck you know sometimes even that the guys who have received the highest medals get to the lowest points - yeah well I think it's important that you are for lack of better terms exposed at face value yeah you know and I am - every aspect yeah so I guess you know if it's something where you hadn't really thought about why it's not something you'd want to mention I mean what words your mind dad as it relates to now now now if I'm asking you like why do you why do you think that you don't want that person to know that you think it was them I mean I I I think that they know I mean I think that I know that you know oh I'm sure they do I just I think it like you know it's kind of like guess when I look at it now it's kind of interesting because the I mean yeah I mean it's just it's interesting cuz the persons in the beginning of the book mm-hmm you know now that I put it all together it's kind it's just and I just I guess like I just I just think that like you know she obviously saved my life I think she knows it she does know it a hundred percent and I I mean I think that it's just like you know if that's one thing I get to hold on to my appreciation then I should just hold on to it you know yeah well I can I can and will respect that but I think that's I think that's ironic you know now that look at it like I've never thought of it that deep right that's what my crops all about her yeah I mean she I mean she actually called me about it after she read the book do you want to tell her thank you on air here or what yeah I mean she knows it like yeah I I say it took me a long time to get there but like after every you know after after definitely having my you know meeting sailor a hundred percent like gosh like you know I've even had to come last year I called captain Katie cop for the first time and I thanked her for sending me home yeah was she pretty receptive to them she said I thought you hated my she's like I never thought I'd ever hear from you you know sitting in the h-e-b parking lot and I just said you know Katie like gosh I hated you I did I I probably still hate you for it right but you know now every time I look in my daughter's eyes and every time I get to hold at leader I get to hold sailor-like talk I really appreciate you doing and fighting me so hard to be able to give me that yeah that's uh it's neat and encouraging to hear you know you talked about it and you can you can feel and see the emotion behind it you know that it's come full circle that way that's it's encouraging yeah yeah it's crazy so speaking of the daughters so you you end up meeting Bristol Palin and getting married it's kind of a circus you gonna talk about that a little bit um yeah I mean look I got I got I got nothing to say about you know bad about Bristol I mean she's look she gave me two beautiful daughters I mean the greatest things in my life she taught me a lot you know we just weren't good together I mean I have the utmost respect for I you know she's been great to co-parent with you know look I've got my own demons I mean I'm hard to deal with myself so I haven't found anybody I will tell you this like I've not found anybody that ever wanted to stay in my life forever you know I feel like that's a personal job so there's only one there's only one common denominator with all the people don't I'm here for you yeah will you oh yeah you took it like that well outside of you outside of you uh but you know I mean look I yeah you know I met her you know we we fell in love and we gosh you know I mean you know I'll tell you this like her world's hard - mm you know her world's hard to in each she didn't choose her world either yeah you know I mean like I shouldn't pick her mom in the family I didn't pick she didn't pick that you know number one the environment she grew up in number two the you know the spot like she didn't she didn't choose it either and she's she's kind of just like I think me and her relate a lot because we've just tried to do the best of what we've had to be handed you know yeah how did the the whole [ __ ] Teen Mom thing come up and and I guess further I mean that's obviously a more negative than positive impact but did you have any say in that it was like I'm doing this and [ __ ] deal with it or you know we and that me I don't know [ __ ] about the show other than what I can ascertain from the name and you know a couple of clips here in their lives yeah I mean we kind of just we it was kind of just at that moment the part the phase of you were going through the divorce and stuff we kind of just just did it - did I want to do it no I didn't want to do it but you know sometimes you can you know sometimes you can get deals done you know so we got divorced and we did the team mom show as an agreement and you know we look we got past that and we're off the show now so it's really good I mean you know that was gosh it was not good for either one of us yeah I mean if you don't want to mention it's fine I'm curious like what does something like that [ __ ] pay I'm gonna ask it I know everybody's ask I know it's way less $25,000 in episode Jesus Christ that much yeah but I mean like I never did it for the money I mean yeah began well I mean certainly [ __ ] helps stomach the pain in the ass right yeah I mean but you know I mean the the problems that it causes between you know your home life is like [ __ ] I mean any worth that yeah you've gotten some I mean a fair bit of [ __ ] anti-fans from it right yeah yeah yeah I mean you know like the way they portrayed me of just to be some crazy just I mean you know MTV took real like they date they took they definitely made me out to be just some monster you know and is would you say the creative editing process was in full effect like oh oh man yeah their editors I mean I I hope to meet their editors when they with Bilzerian yeah and and major Grainger let's put all three of them in the same category yeah I mean you know that but they you know that's what they do they want to get me reality TVs not real yeah it's it's scripted it's not really scripted but like the editing like I promise you can I can yeah I can take you living your best life and make it look bad with right editing yeah no admit it's manufactured as [ __ ] there's yes no two ways about it any fallout or kind of or follow through or after after the show has there been anything because of that that's been in the works or or since then no no no I mean I think that like you know with the a lot of publicity yeah you know the frustrating part to me is is you know they see like now people see this Teen Mom and you go Google and that's what comes up first and it's like you know I've got a lot more than that like I got I've made some mistakes but I've done a lot more than that you know and uh like for somebody who's never heard your name and they google it like the the first snapshots gonna be of that yeah they put me in the same category as everybody else on Teen Mom right like they put me in the same category as everybody else I see on on on on MTV it's just kind of like I'm not one of them and I made it clear up front like you know I'm not I promise I'm not I'm not one of you all yeah I mean from a technicality standpoint she wasn't a teen though right she was what she was when she was when she had trip when you four when she first got pregnant yeah Oh what trip but not with well none of them on there are teens anymore right like that's what Teen Mom doesn't make any sense it's a it's a franchise and it's uh I guess to me like logically it's like wouldn't you have to be a [ __ ] teen yeah and to be on Teen Mom yeah I mean there's not much logic to Teen Mom yeah across the board um being in the public eye you know again it's not something you asked for but the reality of it is is that you are you know there's not a lot of Medal of Honor recipients that are alive to things I'm curious you know how does that continue to how did it impact you how does it how does it continue to impact you but also do you find a a solace in the other Medal of Honor winners do you guys I know that there's there's kind of an organization that you guys are a part of but like do you lean on each other at all is there kind of a brotherhood no no I mean I guess they have one but I'm I'm out of it yes I can voted off the island voted off the MOH Island you know when I needed them the most you know a lot of times like nobody wants to talk about this but when I need them the most you know I mean my Medal of Honor is probably one of the most controversial medal honors out there right when I needed them the most Marine Corps reached out to them and said hey would you just write a statement to support Dakota that said you support the state you support the process and the Medal of Honor Society said no we will not do anything to back Dakota do you know why they did them because they're I mean I I don't know but guess what like I don't want anything to do with them I I don't like I like some of the obviously the recipients right like I'm friends with them but like as far as an organization I just don't agree with the direction that they're going and I don't agree with with you know I feel like that as a Medal of Honor recipient you should be like kind of like the Congress of veterans mm-hmm not going out and doing a you know Medal of Honor convention to be told how great you are in every city do so you said you're friends with several of them but yet there's not really a brotherhood can you quantify that I mean why would I have a brotherhood I mean I didn't serve with any of them agreed but yeah I mean like I didn't like well I mean so bear with me for a second is that you know there's a lot of seals that I never served with yeah but we've all been through buds which is you know a very specific and tough process that Bond's everybody that's been through it I can only imagine you know how few of you there are dead or alive around 80 you know there's not very [ __ ] many like I mean think of other groups in on the planet where there's only 80 of them in the entire [ __ ] world or I guess in this case in this country still yeah that's a [ __ ] small group of course you know so to me inherently there's an element of you know brotherhood bonding you know at least to a certain extent do you feel some of that or not really no no just you're just friends with some of the guys because you've met them through yeah yeah I'm pretty some of the guys I met him but like as far as the organization like I I guess maybe more from an informal Brotherhood standpoint like just you have kind of a mutual respect for guys cuz I have you know anybody who has metal I mean anybody who served I don't have any more respect for those guys as I do anybody else whose war the nation's cloth no you know I mean like it doesn't like I'm part of the only Club I need to be part of and that's the United States Marine Corps right like that's any other club like being a veteran right like I don't I'm not better than anybody because I have this blue ribbon around my neck like the only difference in me anybody else has served our country was the opportunity was put in front of them you know I'm no better than you I mean I'm I don't deserve to be treated any better than you like like we both did what the country asked of us I'm no better than anybody who didn't see combat that chose to go do it like I I just I don't I mean do you go out and I mean I don't know I mean what's your highest medal you have it's a UH calm with a V so do you go out and wear that around every I shower with it well right but you get my point like god yeah like I don't do you want wear your Trident like you know every chance I get you know what I'm saying it's the same thing it's like it's like I just can't I can't drink the kool-aid yeah no I mean so you know for me like are there times where you know if I'm in a suit in some occasions not not every time a Minnesota but depending on what the event is or whatever yeah I may have a lapel trident on on it maybe I shouldn't I don't know no I mean I think I think to me it's it's something I'm you know I'm proud to have done do I try to shove it up people's asses do I you know have a business card with it on it and say hey I'm Mike I was a seal no okay that's a you know but there you go right uh but yeah I guess you know again just not having you know received a Medal of Honor I you know for me it's it's more out of curiosity just if there's yeah I mean kind of a people do different things but they're right look I I have the utmost respect for any of them who have the medal because gosh I know what it's like just just not like not even for what they've done right but like just just at what it's like to live with the damn thing yeah I can see a double-edged sword to it ABS you know yeah I mean look I mean I've gone to events and like this will show you the mentality I mean I've had a recipient come up to me we go to an event there's three of us and he comes up to me and tells me that well where's your medal at what's at home with my uniform well you need to wear your medal first off you know tell ya right I mean you know you don't tell me what the [ __ ] to do yeah and it's still this mentality of you know I'm a general so I I'm gonna tell you what to do yeah you can call me you know general so-and-so I'm not no I'll call you by your first name like I'm not in the military when I got out so I didn't have to call people that right so and I get that that kind of comes off negative sometimes but you know I earn the same medal they did yeah so I just you know and I guess probably it started off wrong whenever whenever they wouldn't turn around and support me yeah like that that started the bed started the bed and I just like you know look I I love them like I love guys in there like I think they're great guys yeah but I just can't get into the let me put the metal on and walk around with it yeah I can't I just can't I can't I can't buy into it and I've had them tell me you need to wear the metal and so my best way to do it is like hey you look you guys do your thing I'll do mine I'm gonna go out here and try change the world and I'm gonna go try to change the world for veterans and tell veterans how great they are like whether they got a medal or not ya know I think that's that's awesome I can see where you know in some instances were it could potentially cause cause issues the other way so moving forward I guess wouldn't when and why did you decide to pull chocks out of Kentucky and moved to this great state of Texas oh well I moved to Alaska to be with my daughter you know I got married to Bristol we moved up I moved up there with her boobs I like living there it's Alaska's a wonderful place to visit [Laughter] just like a good neighbor comment right yeah I mean it's a wonderful place no I mean if you go up there between April and October it's amazing yeah but damn you know and then me and Bristol just decided to move to Austin to try you know give it a shot and got her idea I think we I think we both made it yeah why Austin that's like the the left coast of [ __ ] Texas is that why no I don't know I don't know why we chose us I think I don't know in Austin is a cool place it definitely Texas wise has a very different vibe than the rest list I don't live in I don't claim I live I got I got it I fly out of Austin yeah I live on the west side so like I like I don't I don't I I've maybe been downtown twice have you been to a barbecue or franklin's nope I think we ought to end this interview right yeah no I know need if I can barbecue in Austin I don't know much about it holy [ __ ] christ I'm gonna have to have you come over again you can come you can come to my house we'll smoke some ribs for you today for Christ's sakes I mean so so once you're down there and and obviously so then you got divorced while being down there what was that like in terms of hitting the reset button and trying to become or facilitate being an entrepreneur during that like tell me about that I mean I would say going through the divorce is probably the hardest thing I've ever gone through it's another failure right I mean you go go through my life and it's just made up of failures and for some reason my failures always get the most publicity I mean to me everything's a learning opportunity I mean I've been through one is difficult it continues to be yeah I mean you know it sucks I mean it sucks too you know I mean it sucks to fail it sucks to you know not be with my kids 24/7 I mean it I mean it like it there's nothing there is nothing you think parenting got this hard co-parenting is hard I'm right there lady right like it's not uh I mean it's [ __ ] hard and that's what it's worse than hard sometimes yeah and so you know it's it was it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through but you know I definitely think it was the right thing you know yeah moving into the entrepreneur phase what what keeps your interest sparks your your drive I guess to do what you do now and then can you tell us about it yeah I mean look you know I've got flip side cameras we're coming out with daily designs and honestly I just what drives me is is just the pure I love seeing people get excited about my product you know I were at word of that idea come from so the canvas side of it started with canvas right we started with canvas and print and canvas I just looked at like other companies like iconic in the helm and I'm like like I ordered their stuff and I said I can do this way better mm-hmm and our stuff is a harp sent american-made it's it's way better quality than any other campus company that's out there 110% and if you don't if if if you you know disagree then I'll take my I'll take my stuff back and relaunch you right but now we've got into HD metal so it's chroma Lux metal it's really slick looking and then we're also doing a paper frame paper but you know for me I just you know I just want to make people's day better like if they're having a bad day I want them to be excited about our product whether it's t-shirts with on the dash or its flipside canvas or whatever it is I just went down like if I can do something to make somebody's day better then that's what drives me to do it yeah I love the the spirit and the spirit of it and the mentality towards it is are the canvases or they predominate it seems like from what I've seen of them they're all predominantly like powerful images and stuff yeah can people send you pictures to have yeah yeah you can send me pictures I mean we you know will work I mean there's a design fee to that because have to you know obviously make it right right but yeah I mean you know we're just trying to do the the love America patriotism the hard-working you know just badass art you know what I mean like you know I call it badass heart for badasses right you don't have to be a male female it's just whatever the [ __ ] you want to be right and uh you know that's that's we have to be one or the other maybe not maybe not that's a whole other [ __ ] podcast yeah is there a most popular print to date um I would say silent professionals is definitely one of the most popular prints Ryan I am curious about the metal stuff yeah is there a point at which it's too detailed for it to turn out the meadow shows more detail than anything and the [ __ ] out yeah like you want like if you like that's why we started doing mad I mean no I'm serious let's wrap it up get the [ __ ] out yeah the UH the the image is on meadow or just the detail in it like we use a high it's like probably like the rolls-royce of metal everything we do that's why our prices are a little bit higher but because the qualities are like I refuse to have something look like [ __ ] in somebody's house or is it like a laser engraved thing no so basically what we do is you print it off on this material and then it's put back on it and it's basically forged into I teated and pressed into it stamped into it yeah it kind of like yeah yeah I don't need to check that [ __ ] out of me like so dingy sound could you do that to the flag with the tribe oh absolutely seam it image oh well yeah submit image I can oh yeah absolutely I'll just [ __ ] back yeah that's sick it's it's oh it looks so good even the like the shield would be [ __ ] cool yeah either yeah yes in both amount or not get out [ __ ] man it's awesome I appreciate it hang it up are you gonna are you gonna put it out in the dog kennel I'll probably throw in the attic yeah throw an old piss covered blanket or yeah I know you know maybe one of the whelping blankets will cover it with yeah no absolutely if I can put it put on the ceiling well none of the mirrors for the ceiling you come over yeah that's true yeah oh hey I can look back at you that's right wait a minute yeah that's right now that is right so the if we could as entertaining as this is the own the - stuff tell me about that cuz I love the just the the sentiment behind you know that wording of mechanism can you talk about it yeah you know on the - you know I started with like just t-shirts I mean I had this Linda Ellis wrote a poem called the - and you know she talks about you know the one thing that we all know about is gosh death right as I guess the word morbid does that sounds right but we're all dying and our last living legacy is a tombstone and on that tombstone you've got the day you're born they died which are only the only two days there aren't 24 hours in your life the only two days you really have no control of but what matters that - in between you know you don't get to decide how long it is you don't get to decide anything else but what you get to decide is what it looks like and you get to make that choice every single day how people can remember you and they're not going to ever remember you I always think about you know what are people gonna say when I die you know because we're always trying to measure what success right like there's always somebody better than you if you're always better than somebody what it really is success and I think you know success for me is what are people gonna say about me when I die and how are they gonna remember me you know and I just wanted I want my actions every day to help them write whatever they're gonna write on that piece of paper when they walk up there and read that you know that day that I die and that's what on the dash is about is like owning your - like whatever you want to be like whether you want to be Navy CEO or you want to be you know a janitor to school or whatever like nobody's more significant or matters than the other nobody's more important than the other we're all just cogs in the wheel trying to make this thing of life better right and and if we all went around and and did something nice for every someone every one person every single day how much better would that day make it like how much better would life be how much better with the world be and that's what on the dash is about is about lifting each other up it's about being there for each other it's about telling it's about telling your story in a way that you know your story and your struggles in a way that's not being the victim but then in a way to show others that they can get through it too because we're all going through something yeah we're all going through something yeah I mean to me the I love all elements of it I know the you know for me what is successful it looked like and you know off the top of my head my thoughts are you know having the the biggest and most positive impact on the rest of the world as you can you know I don't give a [ __ ] what you do there's gonna be people that hate ya that think you're doing it all wrong they're gonna criticize you God knows I have have plenty of them you know but you just again you you make the best decision at the time with what you have and then hope that it's you know making the most impact but if that drives your decision each decision as you make and I think it's hard to go wrong and it reminds me of I don't remember who the [ __ ] said it's not that it's a super old quote I read it here fairly recently but and I'm paraphrasing a little bit it's not exact but the gist of it is you're the youngest you'll ever be today a hundred percent you know like you're not you're not you know you can say you're not getting any younger but I think when you're when you phrase it that way like for the rest of your life you're the youngest you'll ever be you're right [ __ ] now yeah I mean I I always say like you know when you're born they should hand you a sign says you're dying the Battleship the it'd be it'd be nice if you could rationalize that before your 30 [ __ ] years old you know cuz most people don't myself included I mean what do they say that the youth is wasted on the young yeah god damn sure is it's a fact in Elvis yeah the youth is wasted on the young it is as well yeah there's a there's a million [ __ ] quotes but um you know surrounding yourself with warriors doing what you're up to now talk about kind of what what's in store for you with those two projects and anything else you have going on and what what would you say you do here yeah yeah I'm getting ready to you know I'm getting ready to take on the dash to another level right I'm gonna do a subscription type model nice um you know we got the owning it podcast the YouTube going you know just more about you know being vulnerable I mean that it's Kosh you know I I'm a guy that you know I think there's always this there's there's a level of decisions that you made and there's always reckoning to it right like no matter what you do whether it's whether it's fighting a war or whether it's make bad decisions or whether it's being young right like your there's always a day of reckoning of where those your actions are gonna come to to where you're gonna have to face and really think about well how could I've done this different right and I think that's the longer that is I mean they're everything always has it and the longer that is the more time you waste and I think it's why some people go to their entire life not being able to deal with what they've gone through right and and I think that the good thing is I can say that I think this year I'm probably the best place I've ever been like I think that I've had that reckoning I think that it's finally came to make I think I've made sense of what I've gone through I think I've made sense of why I think I've made sense of what can I do with a lot of negative [ __ ] over my life what can I do with it and how can I make it mean something right and you know so we're gonna do that with all the - we're gonna start you know I've been putting out content I'm kind of like testing the content it's been going really good and you know with obviously with flipside canvas you know we're just gonna keep putting out designs and keep building it bigger and bigger and hopefully have you know an empire to where I want to have one piece of art in in every household in America someday it's a hell of a good goal and I [ __ ] I hope that you you get yourself there and I'm happy to just spread the word let me say this in every household in America that loves America yeah well that does cut a few I does yeah I want to get rid of I want to get rid of some of them yeah no [ __ ] where do you see yourself five years from now like what what is the the end goal for you ma'am I shouldn't be raising my daughter's you know like it's that's kind of like the level of perspective that I've kind of had to put things in I mean like you I mean I think I think I know a little bit about getting some negative attention right people have in their own [ __ ] opinions and you know I just go home and I just I ask myself will this change the way my daughter's feel about me and if it doesn't then I really don't give a [ __ ] what you say about me or what you think right and you know for me I just number one I wanna I wanna I want my daughters to be healthy I want to be raising them to be incredible citizens I want to you know I want to be giving them a life that it's honorable I want to be a better dad I'm not saying I'm a bad dad now but I want to get better at it right like I want to be better every day and I want to change the world like I don't know if I'm we're doing five years am i doing ten years I don't know but I hope to you know I hope to just I just want to change change the world and me I just want to make the world a better place I just want to make it better than what I left it or let leave it better than I found it you know I think they're all great sentiments and I agree with them I mean I just can't get into like well I want my you know when I hear people like all went up fifty million dollar business well it's like well obviously you're worried about yourself right like you know I can't really get into behind those people who well you know when I just I just want to make a difference and whatever I gotta do to do that then then that's where I'll be you know you know everybody's a idea of success is different no doubt about it do you have any plans to write any other books might be working right now so right just so it mic drop exclusive what's happening I'm gonna take that as a yes where that's good [ __ ] man where where can everybody find you social media website wise etc you know yeah YouTube we got Facebook I mean find me on Instagram you know one the best place I would say go is obviously check out flipside canvas calm go to on the dash dot us but you know we've got a closed Facebook group you got answer to questions to get in but it's really a powerful group inspiring I mean people lifting people up it's on the - it's a closed group you can find it on Facebook but I'm telling you if you want to get in there and like if you want to if you want to have a place where you can go to if you're having a bad day to make your day better that's the place what are the two questions you have to ask oh we asked how are you own in your - right like how you live in your life and then what do you want to get from the group I think it's gotta you know you gotta have those yeah set the expectations right look if you're going in there to you know if you're looking for drugs it ain't spot right I'm just kidding [ __ ] porn what so I guess there's some in there if it's that funny [Laughter] maybe I shouldn't answer your two questions the are you the one reviewing the answer I am no chef yeah I review everyone need some more clarity on this need some amplifying you know honestly I don't know if I even have a job after today that's my goal yeah great I'll be your camera guy if I do [ __ ] yeah I mean it's the tripod you gotta you gotta beat out the tripod I mean I am a marine that's true hold this for five hours what god damn man we've been sitting here a while I really appreciate you sharing your story I know it's a it's a tough one and I also know it's one you've you've shared a lot hopefully for those of you listening you've garnered the same level of respect and you know obtained the same level of appreciation for what our guys go through and hearing a story of this magnitude is is very good at hitting the the reset button as it relates to perspective I know I need a constant reminder of it and today has been a very good one for me and I hope the listener shares that same thing I cannot thank you enough for making a trip up here and thank you man thank you for having me thank you for blessing me with your presence well you know I'd say it's the least I can do but let's be honest [ __ ] nothing's the least I think so uh before we wrap up here I want to again give a shout out to origin for sponsoring the podcast those guys kick ass I go to origin labs to check out their their products as well as all the Jocko stuff if you have a dog if you know somebody with a dog if you've patted a dog or if you even know what the [ __ ] a dog is go to team dog dot pet and sign up all right I'm not asking you I'm telling you just go [ __ ] do it stop sending me that how do I get my dog to X questions in the [ __ ] DMS and just go sign up for it that's all I'm gonna say there's products there's a [ __ ] ton of products available all the stuff I'm not gonna belabor it go on there sign up by the [ __ ] that you need put the time in get off your ass train your dog and just [ __ ] do it all right last but certainly not least is anything you want to throw in before we wrap up oh yeah how do i how do I get my dog oh my god yeah I can appreciate that you know what we'll uh I'll tell you what we'll get in the bite suit and we'll talk about it once he's on yeah how's that town Christ last but not least you the listener thank you I appreciate all the time you guys put in of listen listening to [ __ ] like Dakota and I flap our gums to give us the platform to talk to you and bring it to you week after week month after one month if not for you guys we would not exist in this capacity so thank you and then again until next time this is my job [Music] you

Channel: Mike Ritland

Views: 202,538

Keywords: dakota meyer, sarah palin, palin, teen mom, teen, mom, bristol palin, texas, mike drop podcast, mike drop, podcast, mike ritland, mike, ritland, k9, medal of honor, navy seal, marines

Id: KqG5s-ZGcig

Length: 209min 17sec (12557 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 09 2019