Jocko Podcast 113 w/ Mike Ritland - Into the Mind of a K9 Warrior.

this is Jocko podcast number 113 with echo Charles and me Jocko Willick good evening echo good evening I instantly lifted my m4 as my eyes scanned the terrain above us I knew without looking that John and the other guys were moving as soon as my weapon came up Reno took off at a dead sprint and disappeared 20 feet to our left seconds afterward screams came from the area I moved forward scanning the environment as I moved wanting to come to Reno's aid as soon as possible but unwilling to leave behind my tactical sense I heard three shots ring out as a Taliban fighter tried to exit the shallow cut that they had been hiding in his companion was locked in a fight with Reno the dog was destroying his opponent blood quickly covering the man's clothes I called Reno out of the fight and squeezed off several rounds as the man reached for his weapon we quickly searched the area before moving on our pace even quicker than before the gunfire for sure had given away our position legs and lungs burned the elevation taking its toll as we finally reached our destination sitting on the edge of that mountain waiting for a ride I looked back at the last few hours I patted Reno's head twice tonight he had saved my life twice I owed him yet another debt of gratitude his body shivered slightly as the cold wind bit into him now that we weren't moving the cold settled quickly I pulled off my coat and wrapped them in it pulling his body against mine to keep him warm tonight he had saved my life tonight he had saved my brother's lives and that is a little excerpt from the book Trident k9 warriors my tale from the training ground to the battlefield with elite Navy SEAL canines by Mike Ritland a CEO who ended working with dogs training dogs and eventually starting a company called tri Coase international that trains dogs for for the most elite forces in the world and that was an excerpt that was from an operator talking about one of the dogs that Mike had trained and Mike's written two other books besides Trident k9 warriors he also wrote team dog and Navy SEAL dogs which is a book aimed at teenagers and tonight we are lucky enough to have Mike with us on the podcast to talk about how the hell he ended up doing what he is doing so Mike Ritland welcome aboard it's a both a pleasure and an honor to be here I appreciate you having me so we always have to start where you started tell us a little bit about Waterloo Iowa well it's uh you know it's one of those one of those spots where I guess it's a good place to be from not a whole lot happening in Iowa which honestly is why part of the reason why I got in the dogs because there's not a whole lot else going on wrestling obviously is huge in Iowa and I had the the pleasure of growing up during the Gabel era of Iowa wrestling and my dad wrestled with Dan Gable in high school and so you know being kind of engrained in that culture growing up even though I never wrestled because he he can hardly walk and is so beat up from it he swam and so all of us swam long story short there's still a big part of my life but so I you know growing up kind of having that mentality ingrained you know was a big big proponent of where I'm at today and and why I got involved in both the Navy and and dogs because of the appreciation for you know for that mentality terms of Waterloo it's you know suburban town 70,000 people I'd say lower middle class probably a lot of influence from Chicago Milwaukee st. Louis pretty ruff high school growing up there it wasn't wasn't the best of times for me but taught me a lot of hard lessons about perseverance and doing things even when you don't want to do them and facing things that you're not not willing to be comfortable with facing and things of that nature and and I was on the swim team and influenced by my grandfather's in terms of their service in world war two and and I just always wanted to make a an impact in terms of serving my country I know I'm a little younger than you but for me I was in junior high when the first Gulf War broke out and it scared scared the crap out of me a couple years later I was like where do I sign up you know that that progression you know just in that couple of year period is just crazy but but it you know those those experiences and seeing some some terrorist activity as a young kid growing up it really really shaped no different than than how it shapes you know the guys were constantly going against in the in the generations growing up which has a huge impact but from a recruiting standpoint but but yeah I mean it was just something that blue-collar town patriotic grandfather's were were pipe hitters in the World War two and and what they do in World War two it's my my mom's dad was on a minesweeper and the Navy also cook less straight out of you know Navy it's Steven Seagal just to cook but he was just to cook but he used on a fleet of mine sweepers was 98 and the fleet in the Mediterranean and two of them came back and he was on one of them my dad's dad was in the army he actually just tells you how times have changed he he beaten at an English allied soldier to death in a bar fight somewhere in Europe during the war and they just sent him home and discharged him you know but I didn't I didn't know him real well and I met him a couple of times he had a pretty rough rough go you know after after the war and I was basically an alcoholic and I only saw him three or four times maybe growing up before he died but but my mom's dad is it was a huge influence you know I talked with him a lot of I was always fascinated by you know his stories and his outlook and and just you know he wasn't wasn't you know aversive to talking about it enjoyed talking about it but yeah just it was very inspiring and and it just made me want to serve you know I've kind of always leveraged my decisions in life on how I'm gonna make the most bang for my buck and get the most out of every decision and I felt like you know it was it was my my turn to you know carry the torch for a little bit how did you hear about the teams I was a Popular Mechanics article that I read in like ninth grade and that was the first time I'd ever heard of it uh and it showed you know like you know to me like one of the things that I think recruits a lot of us is saying that it's it's actually the toughest military training they've learned by default I'm gonna go do that then for sure so that was part of it but yeah I mean I read that of that and and that was at a time when I was getting you know I got got rolled up pretty hard a few times in high school got jump yeah yeah you were talking about that in your first book yeah you got rolled up a couple times and beat down oh yeah yeah I was I was a runt in high school like my freshman year I was 5'4 105 pounds that's fun and then I was one of happened you know juniors and seniors just you know whaling on me and you know I didn't I didn't have much of a chance there but you know and even when I graduated I was the same height I am now and I weighed 140 you know so when I my first first ID in the Navy I was 145 and I'm 511 you know so yeah I put on a few pounds so did you did you do dive fair program or anything like that I didn't uh when I originally tried to be a corpsman and at that time this was 96 they're like yeah we're pretty heavy on corpsman pick something else and I was like how about Intel specialist you know so I went to is a school right out of boot camp and I when I graduated high school I was 17 still so I had to wait until I turned 18 go to boot camp so I went to boot camp in August is a school and checked into buds in spring of 97 that I was a youngest youngest guy in the class and I hold the whole deal what did you weigh then I worked out pretty heavy in a school I got up to about 155 I think oh yeah I mean I I mean I see pictures of like you know post tell week in first phase like I look like I just broke out out with ya I mean there's nothing to me you know yeah but I read 175 when I showed up Simon yeah 511 175 then I could weighed 185 when I graduated cuz I put on 10 pounds yeah I did the same I weighed 165 I think if you're a little bit's cuz I was like a scrawny I know 175 might not sound scrawny but I wasn't I was pretty scrawny 175 and then they they put a little meat on the bones as they say you can eat whatever I would order a Domino's cheese pizza extra cheese pizza just about every night now I had a same similar ritual you remember the country store yeah so at the end of every day after dinner I would go to the country store and there was that little McDonald's next to oh yeah you'd get something I'd get a quarter pounder with cheese value meal in a box literally a box of ten oatmeal cream pies and a 64-ounce leaded Gatorade every night and wolfed it down no problem yeah and I gained like eight pounds duh the thing is and I was telling somebody about this you know you run to chow and Jack every every meal you run to chow it's a mile there that's a mile back yeah and you go three or four times a day for because sometimes you go up midnight so that means you're running between 6 and 8 miles everyday before you even include any of the actual training so you're doing a lot of physical activity you can eat a lot done especially at that age too oh yeah that's right and then a couple it was being cold most of the day that's true yeah you're burning I wonder what you're burning for calories it's a massive amount of gout this is that'll be 10 K Plus yeah yeah I didn't even think about the cold part oh yes you are just cold all the time just hammering calories away you get done with buds and and you you were a swimmer right I was there one of those people that I talk about like swimming was for you is just super easy actually no I got I got rolled I started with 214 I got rolled six days before going to San Clemente Island for swims no loser that so the here's that I pinched my sciatic nerve at that look kind of doin land now it's not a loser so I just failed everything but it's kind of the kind of a running joke like now I got rolled for swims because the first thing that I failed three of I failed everything after Laguna cuz it with the injury but I will say that because I grew up in Iowa like that my first time in the ocean was it buds like mean I had been knee high water at Cocoa Beach on spring break or whatever but I'd never been out past a surf I'd never swam at night and good freaked you out a little bit I mean it was just kind of is like an over over stimulus type thing but for me you know not having a black line to look at you know and having a guide off the coast you know it was a bit of a challenge but that for me the biggest thing was actually swimming with fins yeah that's you know what that's a good point because a good point people it's a totally different muscle yeah well and you're you know from from having so I mean I grew up when I was from five until I graduated high school I mean I had partial scholarship offers you know to some local colleges for swimming and and you know for me it was it came pretty naturally I was never a state champion but I went to state and did all right but you know show us so growing up with that muscle memory of how to swim without ever using fins why not the first time I put those on those duct for your like two by fours you know I mean they just destroyed my ankles especially being kind of scrawny way so for the first phase like my feet and ankles were just destroyed the whole time you know like for me it was hard to swim and I mean I could pass but I wasn't I wasn't you know the guys out in the front just turtle back there no having fun who are those guys I mean there was some Olympic swimmers yeah and water polo players yeah see I I had a couple of those guys were I just thought these guys are just studs but they were swimmers yeah so that's why I figured you were breezing through the swims too no I mean I you know they didn't they didn't bother me you know but I was middle of the road I wasn't I wasn't blowing anybody out of the water I think for them some of it is it you know in Iowa we were probably a little behind the power curve technology-wise now they do use a lot of fins little cheater fins and training fins and stuff and so there's some more to it than that plus the guys that I saw that did really well were more muscular than I was you know for me is like those fins were about a quarter of my body weight you know and it was literally was like having concrete she was going for a jog it was like yeah it didn't do me any favours it took some getting used to for sure but the runs and swims I think what about the runs runs no problem you look you know really there was nothing that I I would say that I struggled with I wasn't the best at everything that I you know I wasn't getting good either yeah you know I was kind of a grey man on purpose which is the best place to be and one of my buddies he would say that they started the goon squad every single time with him yeah moon squad if you're if you're slow on the run and you get to sort of the end and then there's a structure waiting and these from this point on you're getting gooned which means you're gonna do a bunch of crap and it's gonna suck and this guy was the beginning of the goon squad every time which is not fun yeah so what year was it when you graduate a bunch so it was a spring of 98 and then you went to team three yeah when I went to boot camp or Benning jump school oh okay yeah back when they still did that and then and then from there straight to team three and an ST T and and I got my did the Chiefs Board thing which was I wish they still did that you know I think that's a sacrilege that they do it the way they do it now but yeah I got got might ride in an October of 98 waited until January to climb to jump into my first platoon and that was an Arg alpha platoon so it's not only two-month work up with six months of fleet X ship deployments prior to even deploying I did two args yeah yeah back-to-back args a team won't park in the dirt I think they're valuable what ship did you do boy out the Duluth oh right on LP d6 yeah yeah man so that things from 1965 or 67 or something like Vietnam yeah yeah they built these ships echo to take troops from here to Vietnam drop them off but then by the time we were on them they were just doing full six-month deployment so it was straight-up World War two style canvas racks so little canvas racks there'd be four people sleeping stacked up like four bunks with these little canvas racks this is old-school but I will say this I mean the experience is in terms of big Navy like you don't get those four shows you know for sure and doing the fleet access we were on the Abraham Lincoln and got to stand on the bridge watching f-14s land and take off and you know we got to do some pretty neat stuff that that I'm glad glad we got to be a part of what was awesome for me was we were doing because when you're when you're with them you're with the Marine Corps and so we did all these operations in conjunction with the Marine Corps so I was a comms guy what were you until guy so I was a comms guy so I was always interacting with all the other units that we'd be out there for communications and then coordinating and all that stuff so I had a real leg up when it came to working with conventional forces which if you were an irregular spec ops platoon back then you would never work with them I mean you barely very rarely work with conventional forces so I did two args where I got to work with Marines and do massive you know battalion-sized operations and had to coordinate all those things so it it gave me a good introduction you'd get you'd get guys back in the teams back then they they wouldn't even know they wouldn't even know they wouldn't even understand what a Marine Corps battalion was or what a company was or want a platoon was they just wouldn't know now everybody knows we've gotten more professional as times gone by but that gave me a I was real lucky that I had that Arak plutonium in like I said it's just getting a you know kind of the the big Navy perspective on a lot of things I think is is valuable you know and and it was just neat from a for me at least from a tradition standpoint I mean because we we did a about a three-week exercise in Australia where we tested out a fast catamaran that they were testing for for up for us basically the thought was is this thing to do like 55 knots you know and it's the size of a you know it's bigger than like a guided missile cruiser man a medium sized ship with you know a hole in the middle as a cat but so the the thought process was we could deploy like a whole task element or at least a platoon if you remember the I think they were with the hurricane class or whatever those little osw amphibious goats that was kind of the same principal and they they candid after a while but same kind of principle is that but these things do 55 knots and it was weird you know we're out floating around testing these things out doing some some exercises of some nor force Australian guys and it what it was more like being on a plane than a boat in terms of the way it felt like when you're trying to sleep or whatever I mean imagine a boat that big doing 55 knots it's crazy that's completely crazy yeah but you could put everything you know you could do a full task element load out on it be completely self sustained and go 55 knots anywhere in the world you know so it certainly had some potential but obviously we never ended up doing them but are getting them or implementing them so how many deployments did you do before the war kicked off just that one so that was because it took so long as 22 month workup then you did a six-month deployment yeah then you come back from that well so yeah the the kind of the raw deal that I guess couldn't call it a raw deal but for me so we got back in February of 2001 mid-february and because it was right in the middle of force 21 reorg that's right so it was team 3 their official force 21 form up wasn't until January of Oh - so from February to January the entire team was basically like on pro dev or whatever and you know I'd only done one platoon so they're like yeah you're not going to freefall yet now we've got two other guys going to sniper so you can go to hazmat that's cool awesome how about you can be a bus driver so I ended up actually going over the sysm team I don't know if you're mad because you're a swimmer Navy pentathlon yeah you know at Team three I was always like when we did run swim runs you know is one thing being a little smaller at that time and being a good swimmer and a pretty decent runner I could always get top three top five at that the team on any given day doing swims and runs and so I went over and tried out and made the team and competed and we were supposed to compete in Istanbul that summer did the whole you know train for six months and and busted my my backside and then I pull I pulled more tore my groin and and I just I couldn't I couldn't get it healed in time and so I ended up not not being able to go compete which really sucked I was I was looking forward to doing it but it was a neat experience so it's totally different it was you know the first time in my life and the only time it was like being a professional athlete you know we'd we'd train for 3-4 hours in the morning and then swim for two and a half hours in the afternoon to a Saturday long long run or long practice and that was it the rest isms stand for its I mean it's not even in English I don't think it's it's basically like military Olympics behind go yes it's the Navy pentathlon so it's okay so the the event what are the events it's so it's an old course but it's a totally different you know it's a real squirrlio course and I'm all right yeah small yeah you just it's really fast like it's one every sprint yeah so there's that there's a like a you know what they call it it's like a naval traditional race thing where you're paddling a little boat and you go out around a dinghy and have to do shackles whatever what's shackles well like you like it's a little like you go around a buoy and have to take a shackle off and connect it to something else like it's so there's a little tradition so challenge yeah same thing with the underwater Oh course which that one was pretty legit it's a hundred and twenty-five yard underwater ops of course and you got those big three-foot carbon-fiber freedive fins on so you do I mean it's like you're like I couldn't have these and but it's like you're thinking about combat swimmer like I'm gonna steal some of these but yeah I mean so I'd say 90% of that hundred and twenty five yard race is underwater you know you only come up at the at the end blow out and take a breath like a like a damn Orca you know you're just like you know and go right now are you doing tasks underwater yeah so there's there's a like a cargo net with a hole at the bottom you gotta you know and this is over the sea TT in the 15 foot section so you're going from the top down to the bottom and then back to the top at the other side and so the only time you're taking a breath is at the end and I will tell you from a physical standpoint like that was one of the more taxing things I've ever done because it's a race and it's technique and whatever but so there's a cargo net you got to go under you got to swim a rubber m16 from one side to the next holding it out of the water but you're you know you're basically your whole body's underwater with just the rifle out in your streamline and whatever it's all technique stuff that you're you know whatever and then you have to go down you know you go to one side come back so basically you swim the m16 across you drop it you swim all the way down through that hole come back up swim back down to back to the other side and undo this little like firehose shackle thing and put it back together come up and then sprint back to the other side type of thing and that was pretty pretty challenging but so there's that and then there's a life-saving thing where you gotta do it you know save a dummy basically they have to get out of your clothes and so like you're wearing these old buds greens and they're all like rigged so that you can get out of them like literally you undo the pants you know and like it's this whole technique thing you can go from having full greens on in the lot taking them off in the water by doing like this porpoise backflip thing and you backflip out of them and then go save the guy and it's it's really kind of dumb honestly it's all like I feel ridiculous even I explain it like it sounds even more stupid you're explaining it to you guys not knowing what it is but but yeah so so there were some underwater shit going on yeah that's basically what I'm here yeah so that thing you can't go because you you get injured and now so so shortly after you were supposed to compete if that supposed to be in the summer of 2001 September 11th goes down yeah you you get rolled back into a platoon at that point well so I did a couple of Intel schools some secret scroll ones that were actually pretty awesome during that summer after I got hurt and then I literally in fact one of them I I flew back the night before September 11th on September 10th I flew from from DC to San Diego I get home September 11th happens I'm on my butt we were living in the HOH at the time I was on my way and the SEAL team three you know you know getting ready to jump in a platoon when it happened and so obviously like with everybody you know all bets are off and figuring out what we're gonna do there was an exercise in Jordan that they sent me on a couple weeks later and they beefed it up pretty heavy like it was gonna be a you know minimal footprint but after September 11th they ended up sin and way more people and a lot more resources it kind of set it up almost like a like a like a potential fob if need be you know they had a couple platoons worth of guys and and you know people with experience and brought real stuff and you know kind of a contingent if need be I'm you know nothing we didn't end up doing anything but but we spent actually almost two months over there right after September 11 is almost like a mini deployment as well but got back from that and jumped into my platoon in January and then it was you know full speed ahead like I mean not that I know you were same way it's not that you weren't training for war before but there was definitely it was very purpose yeah and then you you you deploy and you did the you did the oil rigs right I did so you know we're just kind of you know lucky luck of the draw I guess you know we we were originally slated to be a Paycom platoon we're gonna go to Guam and when we did but you know so I actually reenlist stood to go to Arabic school and at DLI and I was one of my things I wanted to learn Arabic and so they they were supposed to honor that and then we got Reese laid it as a PACOM platooning like now you're going to learn Tagalog instead congratulations it's like you got to kidding me so he speak Tagalog I wouldn't say I speak yeah not at DLI they so they you know in true Navy fashion it's like you're not going to Arabic you're not going to DLI you're learning Tagalog and it's gonna be at North Island for three months straight okay so it's not the same yeah but yeah I mean I can carry on a basic conversation with it but so anyway would go to go to Guam this is like October roof of o2 and and then you know we're we did the standard PACOM deployment but towards the end of the year they basically you know the writing was on the wall like Iraq's gonna kick off so team 5 came and back filled us and Itay I don't know that they could have been any more pissed oh yeah you know like our turnover party almost was nine fistfights you know like but they were pretty salty about it I don't blame them but so they had to come take our place and finish out our pack on deployment so we could go to Kuwait Wow those guys must have been pissed they're beyond pissed there's there's a feeling that we won't be able to replicate for a long time which is guys that had never been to war the desire that you had to to go because you think you're only gonna get like one mission everyone at that time you're like thinking if you get to do some kind of real mission you'll be just completely your life that will be complete and you think if you don't get to do that you're never then opportunities never gonna get there and and so that's why I can't even imagine what was going through those guys heads at the time yeah I mean like so they they had that exact just pit in their stomach like were this close and you guys you know you've already been here like and we it was kind of the best of both worlds because you know we went to the Philippines for a while which that was nice speaking Tagalog there you know we were there for a month and then we went to Singapore for a while we you know hit Thailand I mean it was a good-good PACOM deployment spent some time ago and went to Hawaii and did like a three week exercise around Christmas you know and then but yeah so you know come late January they're like you know they fly on all of our desert stuff and I would totally repurpose in all of our crap and and then we flew through Thailand land and Kuwait set up shop at Kuwaiti naval base for about six weeks while we're getting ready and so during that time the the oil rig in tailed me being the Intel rep like I was sourcing Intel from a lot of different sources and they weren't very well corroborated like some of them who's kind of like on one end of the spectrum it was like yeah it's not that big a deal and then on the other one was like dude this is a suicide mission you know and everything in between and so it was a little bit nerve-wracking because it bounced around a lot it was like you know how there's there's nobody on board and then it's like now there's four guys and you know they saw a couple aks and next thing you know it's like yeah there's 115 people and they're all suicide vest it up and you know they're gonna clack off when you guys step on you know it's just and I just like said it bounced around but during that time like all we did was CQC and and we built actually a full-scale mock-up now mind you this target was 1600 meters long I mean it took us seven hours to take it down and but you know SD we did a recon on it beforehand and when you see he built a full mock-up we mean I mean I say that I you know we didn't have the funds of some of the other units to do that stuff with but it was basically size-wise we laid out like record tapes tapes like normally like wood stake on an end God and twine yeah but just to know like hey this is legitimately how wrong it is to give you a real idea because you know so there was birthing at one end and that's where we hit it at the beginning because it was in the middle of night that's where they all were and so we took took was 32 32 prisoners without without really any any real issue breached a bunch of doors and took down the whole birthing and and then swept the whole rest of the thing from one end to the next and like I said it took took all night but so yeah we did that and and and then came back from that and and then from there just it was basically hey you know everybody load up the wars kickin off and the one thing I will say it was really neat about that mission though is that it was the entire team and I think to this day it's still the largest single in terms of you know participants special operations mission in NSW history is because it was the entire team in the coordination effort because there was a manifold metering station on the beach and then there's 26 miles of pipelines that were 48 inch pipes you know there was like 30 exxon-valdez worth of oil in these just in the pipelines and the worry was and the reason we had to coordinate it was that you know the the manifold metering station there's people manning that and there's people on the on the oil rig and all that pipeline if they blow that like it's gonna destroy the whole goal yeah and we'll be the 48-inch pipes yeah yeah I mean you walk around in them that's crazy and there was like four of them you know so but yeah so basically we had to coordinate with and again we actually had an STV platoon with us so it was us in an SD v1 platoon they hit the the there was two different oil rigs there was the may bot and chaotic the MENA al-bakr oil terminal and then the coral amaya oil terminal the K bot 1 or K OTT you know the Grom guys took down the fact there was nobody on that and then we took down the the one with you know with all the people on it but we had to coordinate it basically time and exact with the other four platoons from team three one of which was a DP DP v platoon when they were still used Jack I think that's probably the mission where they decided to can the program yeah they were terrible yeah all got stuck it was amazing there's a mess but but you know so they they met some resistance there and just echo that a DP V is like a desert betrays a desert patrol vehicle but it looks like like a dune buggy and and they and who actually looks even super cooler than they got big leg guns when you're a kid and you see that thing it's your ultimate fantasy in life coming true to see this badass dune bug guns with guns all over it rockets on it and you think oh this is if you would have seen those when you were you know 13 years old you'd say whoever how whatever I gotta do my life drive that thing is what I'm gonna do the problem was there they're real specific and finicky and and they get stuck yeah that's the bottom line it's like I mean they're worse than Humvees yeah yeah so they took that down and we and we timed it basically where you know it was a simultaneous hitter or staggered by you know ten seconds but so that you know they the the worry was that if we took it down too early then they would know and yeah and vice versa so so yeah we had to had to coordinate a pretty pretty spot-on but but we pulled it off they managed to take out a few guys on the manifold side we didn't have any real resistance no shots fired other than breaching doors on RN but so we rendezvous back at a Kuwaiti naval base and then we jetted up to Ali ah Saleem air force base in northern Kuwait and then spent the next few days just bloating for Humvees out and then and again this was the start of the war we actually only had three and we ended up we snaked one from the Air Force and I don't know if I should say it I'm gonna say it anyway but there was a green green Humvee that a couple of our guys walked over to a parking lot and stole it and brought it brought it over and we spent one night literally with two cans of tans paint and a paintbrush and just painted it their hands and then these were soft doors you know you know we had extra crappy body armor that we'd hang in the doors to try to give us some protection whatever and yeah we just were like well we're loading up we did have a guy there's his first Platoon and he was he kind of lost his lost his marbles on the on the hit like he was he was rattled to the point where you know he basically gave up and hung it up didn't come with us no he was a 60 gunner and so yeah we had a had an Intel guy at the time that was not a team guy that is now that jumped in a spot basically he talked about like old school like I know they wouldn't they wouldn't let that stuff happen now is better like here's a here's a 60 you know man up yeah sit in the door and yet but that's that's cool that's also interesting you know people always it's one of those kind of myths or misconceptions where people think that everyone that's the steals like a hundred percent and there you go you got a guy that did one operation and said I'm not going any further I remember I think there was a couple guys on the west coast that turned their birds in after 9/11 you know like I didn't sign up for this like what did you sign up for yeah you know but yeah I mean and there was a couple instances to where you know you'd find out things about guys that just like being a buds instructor um don't ever count anybody out don't ever bet on anybody know there's people it'll surprise you both ways yeah I always feel like somebody who's asked me that the other day I always feel like you can you can get an indication right like you go you know what this guy's pretty hardcore yeah you know I I'd go I'd go 80% you know maybe 90% and you think ah this guy's pretty weak I'd go 80% 90% but there's like you said there's outliers or there's people that you just think of what the what just happened to that guy yeah and it's another thing I'm had I'm having to contend with now as I get a little bit older is fact that even though I'm all about human nature and all this stuff and like I really want to understand people sometimes I just look at him look I don't literally don't understand what your problem is yeah why would a big one so there was a there was a Navy ship out in front of my house the other day and I took a picture of it and I sent it to like Lafe and JP and and Dave Burke and influent Cochran and I was like the Navy was good to me but I don't miss these big great monsters right and Lafe wrote back you know he's like yeah I mean that was my motivation going through butts there's no way and and everyone kind of agreed everyone was like there's no way I was gonna quit buds and go to a ship which is not exactly is it well if you have the personality where you think you want to go to buds then being on a ship is completely the opposite of that personality so I don't understand how a guy could be you know it get get to a point where they say you know what I don't want to be wet cold anymore which is really all it is you know people get all excited about SEAL training but you're wet and you're cold and you're tired okay that that's that's what that's not that big of a deal the pamphlet is 10% of the job yeah jack yeah so you get some people that I guess they don't really want to do it everybody wants to be a frogman on a sunny day yeah that's that's another good scene so so you guys pushed up into Iraq yeah so we rolled up and the neat thing at the time was was mattis was the was the you know he was the the boss of one Mar div at the time so we rolled up with the first Marine Division linked up with the 13th or 15th mute in Nazarene they had taken some some headaches it was a big fight and and so the the word that we got and again you'd have to talk to to Harwood and mattis if that's how it went down but basically we got mad it's called Harwood was like hey you know some of our supply routes and convoys have been getting it handed to them and in some some routes and Nazeri oh you guys go ambush the ambushers and like hell yeah we will you know so it was like the wet dream of of what you would think you're getting yourself into combat wise in terms of it was you know hey our conventional guys are getting getting it taken to them here is your your grid square basically it's your territory let us know what we can do to help you guys have at it and we had some leadership at the time that was not that crazy about cutting us off lead you know and so we battled it out with him and Kate came up with some creative ways to go out and work anyway but but we just you know we went out and and did like old school you know conducting our own everything you know I mean we we gather our own intelligence we you know grabbed a few guys and asked around and and you know did several hits based on the intelligence that we'd gathered and had air support and it was kind of like a little microcosm of what was to come you know but was that the first time you saw dogs in action no okay no it wasn't until after that and and it wasn't even seeing them it was hearing about them which I'll get to in a second I guess but so the nazriya thing were there for for a few weeks just doing our own doing our own thing basically then we went up to Southern Baghdad just south of Baghdad and were there for just a couple of days then we were in northern Baghdad we had a scud base which was cool um you know took a scud base down and got got some pretty neat photos and experiences from from that but took down a Scott base and got cool pics I should accomplished yeah yeah I mean got the t-shirt so uh so after that then we went up to Tikrit you know and so this was you know again this was during the conventional phase it was kind of to me the unique part about that was was it's kind of the best of both worlds it was like having box seats at a historic combat scene in terms of big conventional forces moving through you know there were there were lines you know everything and so you know I don't I don't know if you remember the I think it was a third ID he was supposed to come down through Turkey and in the last minute they said no you're not doing it so everything you know was supposed to be meeting like that and in Baghdad with the you know the Army and the Marines meeting south-to-north squeeze in Baghdad and and it didn't happen you know last minute when they said no you can't run through here so it was just you know the Marines moving south to north and and so we there was a couple times where we'd go ahead of them and scout out some routes and and got into a little bit of trouble a few times and then as we're coming up you know to Crete and Mosel and uh you know Tala far--and and you know some of the curd curd areas up there they weren't real worried about Tikrit was kind of the last big one that they were worried about being a lasting because it was Saddam's hometown whatever and so the entire first Marine Division and SEAL team three echo platoon took down Tikrit and it was funny because they're like you know you know 1st 1st division has the West you know 2nd Scott the North thirds got the south and team three echo platoon you guys are taking these like you know there's 16 of us often soft-skinned Humvees right yeah whatever so we got it yeah we went skirted skirted through town while while the entire town of you know 25,000 Marines were taking down to Crete were sneaking our way up to up to the the palace and we took the palace down which is pretty pretty neat and stayed there for for a little while and then ended up once we left there we've kind of bounced around and went down back down to Baghdad and flew out but but so while I was in Tikrit that's where you know we had been in scenarios where the gist of it was that there was a group of Marines that had a dog with them and there was a one of the way I described in the book was you know again it was hearing you know these guys were getting ready to there's a little opening like kind of a cave complex style opening on the side of a hill and they had a single-purpose bomb dog with him again from this is all just what I heard and there was a grenade booby trap basically a clump of grenades just inside the doorway that that this dog had alerted on you know and for me that was like the slap in the face light switch moment of like why why do we not have dogs and I had grown up in Iowa with bird dogs I got into hog for a number of years after which I'll get into the kind of what I drew from that in terms of heart intensity conditioning training nutrition breeding Theory stuff like that but but you know I'd spent a number of years prior to that dealing with dogs working with them training them stuff like that but never you know this focused and strategic about it calculated and so for me it was just from that day on back in March of oh three up until as I said here it was just like I couldn't get enough of it you know and I had taken a lot of the lessons I learned from training and and breeding and working with dogs in in a more informal capacity and applied a lot of that stuff to to what what I had had started implementing with with the k9 programs and stuff and so for for that first five years it was just kind of you know a student to me I'm still a student but but it was just you know training with whoever I could train with I would import dogs I would you know go to clubs I'd you know try to work with police departments anybody I could work with I would do it I'd read every book I could watch videos went to seminars you name it and and then as I transitioned to get ready to get out after I got you know I came back was an instructor for a little while got Valley fever and lost you know 40% of my lungs and and then as I was getting ready to get out I could either stay in and be a handler on the west coast or start my own company and you know provide dogs training and their courses and make a bigger impact and for me that was I'd say just kind of breezed through the fact that you got Valley fever as an instructor in lost 40% lost where you played along and it kills some people and that's that was obviously a huge piece of you saying because if you would have stayed in you you you weren't allowed to do anything that had any kind of lung irritants was the deal yes oh so this was you know I came back and and and went right into being an instructor I had planned on you know forwarding on to bigger and better things operationally and you know it I was out at Nylund and I all of a sudden just like any of us after you shoot a an 84 or or a Gustav round more than a couple of them your chest a little tight the next day I was you know the RSO during 55 of a big shot you know and so naturally like yeah my justice tightness that shouldn't be legal by the way as we found out so just there anyone know a carl gustaf or an 84 but especially a carl gustav it's the biggest boom you're shooting eighty four millimeter rocket and if you shoot two of them or three of them in a day it's it's like you got punched in the head a bunch but the problem is our instructor staff goes out there and they sit there and do would you say fifty five and five fifty five and one day that's not healthy bro oh no that is not healthy yeah and it was one of those things like well you're not shooting them you're just standing there so it doesn't count it's like okay you know typical military genius you know but so the next day you know but i expected my chest and lungs and head and everything to be a little a little sore than normal but it got worse and i got to the point where three or four days after that it was like it was debilitating you know it felt like you were standing on my chest especially when I laid down it got worse and so finally they said you know hey you need to go to Balboa and hit the hit the ER and see what the hell's going on and so I went and it took you know based on and I can't blame Balboa like based on what I told them naturally they're assuming blast lung you know type type of issues you know some sort of you know explosive type of damage but it wasn't you know what that did is it exacerbated what had already started which was me having breathed in coccidia mycosis which is a microscopic fungus that lives in arid climates and it spreads through your lungs like mold where it gets dangerous and kills people's is two things one your genetic makeup be predisposed to determine you know how how big of an impact it has the other one is how much you're exposed to and how long it goes untreated so I basically it grows through your your lungs like mold and spreads but if it if it goes past that if it disseminates past your lungs then it goes into your in your blood and your organs and your bone and then ultimately it'll get into your your CSF fluid or cerebral spinal fluid and into your spinal cord and go up in your brain and that's when it kills people and so it's it's kind of like encephalitis that way but so mine had had disseminated past my lungs there was a couple of hot spots in my in my chest bin my sternum and and in my chest bone ribs and whatever and so when they caught it they they prescribed lamisil which was a toenail fungus medication but no I'm sorry diflucan but it's it's a lot harsher than lamisil it's fluconazole and so they long story short I was on 28 times the amount that you would be prescribed for for a bad case of toenail fungus and I got down so here's the irony I had gotten up to 200 pounds prior to that and then I got back down I weighed 140 pounds at the end of it I was on convalescent leave for 8 months at the time my my chief was ty woods you know from Magothy God rest his soul that awesome dude but so I was working for him at the time and he you know just couldn't have been better I mean he checked on me came by the house regularly I mean you know I mean I couldn't do anything like I slept 20 hours a day I was like heaven pneumonia and mono at the same time lost a ton of weight got down to about 140 finally they had they had gotten the disease under control and got it to to recede but it lays in your bloodstream like malaria does or whatever that lays dormant so if I got pneumonia or leukemia or HIV or cancer or something that really immunosuppressed me it could come back and so that's it's always there you always have antibodies there but so at the end of that the infectious disease captain at Balboa sat me down he's like you know I would recommend a medical retirement for you right now and he said if you want to go that route I'm not saying you have to but but that's what I recommend and you know he basically let me know what you want to do and I was like man I you know I've got a child on my first child on the way I have no college degree I had he's totally caught me off guard like I have no plan you know and so I said well you know how can I stay in you know he said well you got to stay away from from lung irritants for a few years honestly he's like to make as good a recovery as you're gonna make you to slowly get back into shape and put weight on you got to take really good care of your lungs I mean we stay away from harsh cleaning products smoke you know dust everything which is basically everything you do as a seal yeah that every thing that you do your cleaning stuff your bone stuff up you're setting stuff on fire you're shooting guns with lead and it's just a disaster for your lungs yeah and so you know really the only potentially logical explanation as a basic you know buds instructor and so bro the the Master Chief that was I was working for at the time you know camp can't say enough good things about him he hooked me up and made a deal with it with the training Master Chief and they sent me over there and I spent you know three years there which you know was an amazing experience too and and Ayana say I've drawn a lot of lessons from being an instructor to both life and to training dogs which I know we'll get into but you know so it was neat to be behind the curtain there for a little while and see see what the Wizards awesome speak but you know then when I like I said I as I was there I started that's when the West Coast canine program was coming up online Oh 708 timeframe and and I went and did did some decoy training with some of their guys up at a vendor they were using up in Cal and Central California and it's almost kind of like a working interview basically if hey is this something you want to get involved with and I was like yeah absolutely and so they basically I was had a crossroads they said you know if if you want a reenlist and whatever you know you can come come be a handler here you know or that's it you know and I thought about it for a while and for me you know it's one of those Forks in the road that there isn't a right answer you know I wouldn't be where I'm at today but I'd be I'd be lying if I said there isn't part of me that wishes I had stayed in I'd still be in doing deployments as a handler I'm sure you know so but for me again just kind of back to like when I first joined the Navy I've always looked at it is how can I make a bigger impact not not what do I want most personally but what what's gonna make more of an impact in terms of the industry and helping more people to me it just made sense if I can sell you know lots of dogs and and provide handler training and run courses and source nice dogs to feed the program and all that then then that makes more sense from a big picture standpoint did you ever get connected with any of the vietnam-era dog handlers I did a team guy actually yeah do you ever hear stories about Prince Prince oh yeah some Prince was like the the I I believe was the most successfully used dog in Vietnam by the seals dog named Prince I I heard stories when I first got in about Prince and one of the stories that I heard and again this is the story of it's an oral tradition that's been passed down but the story was that there was guys that were getting extracted on a helicopter and that they all piled it was a hot extract there all the guys pile into the bird and they've got Prince the dog with them and the guy says you know hey we're too heavy to take off somebody's got to get out and this is the air crewmen looks at you know looks at the chief and says hey we're too heavy to take off somebody's got to get out and looks at the guy and looks at Prince like get the dog out of here we got to take off and the story goes that the handlers SEAL handler like put his hand on on the dog and was like none of us are going anywhere and they had to just crank the engines and you know barely be able to take off but that was the that was the the story that I heard about and there's pictures of Prince you can see in the archives so I just wondered if you ever talked to any of the guys that weren't any the Prince handlers no not not that I'm aware of there's there's a guy and and you know I actually never talked him about what his dog's name was I'm sure if it was him he probably would have told me but there was one I think he was the first Vietnam Seal k-9 handler that I talked to right as my first book came out and sent him a signed copy and you know talked to him a little bit as it was as it was coming out which was for me just it was an awesome experience being like hearing this guy talk like he was basically like here's a dog figure it out you know I mean that's about the gist of it apparently they had some hard times the firt they didn't know what they were doing yeah they took a couple deployments before they figured out okay and they got the dog prints up to speed and apparently he saved a bunch of guys overtime yeah I mean he added some pretty interesting things to say about the program and the efficacy of the dogs back then and and yeah I mean a lot of it was them just kind of working their way through it and that's the thing that that I think most people probably there's probably the biggest misrepresentation of canine programs is that it's not a weapon system you know where it's like okay you're mark one motto team guy like you'll figure it out like it's a totally different animal no pun intended it is I mean like you know the the podcast she did with with the sax right when he's talking about horses takes ten years no it's it's that way with dogs really is I mean because it's it's a totally different deal it takes years to get truly you know I would say to be able to master you know what it takes to implement a dog program it's it's akin to flipping on a another detachment you know we're saying hey we're gonna create a female special forces you know like it's gonna take a long time before that that's up and running and dog programs are very similar that way so it's hard enough when you've got training cadre resources you know budgeting building all that stuff in your favorite still takes several years you know to just say here's a dog figure it out like Matt that's a that's a tough pill to swallow yeah those guys did it you know just like it's just like any of us would you know I will figure it out but well alright let's let's let's get into the book a little bit cuz I think that'll just guide us because I had a great time reading this book as you know I have a dog as well which is man later yeah see but the book that I decided to go with you got three books out obviously that the the SEAL team dog is a book more it's a what they call in the in the literary industry it's a why a book for young adults right that's what it is but yeah it's it's actually Navy SEAL dogs is the young adult adaptation of training so it's the same same same dog so don't buy that one if you're an adult don't get moldable yeah don't get both of them but then this book team dog how to train your dog the Navy SEAL way and what the reason and he soon as you got here today you're like you know I just got listen to the last podcast with the sax and there's so many parallels you'd be surprised and I was like like are we gonna talk about that I'm like of course we are that's there's so many parallels between how you lead a dog and how you lead a human as awful as that might sound it's absolutely true one of the things you kick off here and and I kind of skip to the middle of the book because it's talking about selection so I'm gonna go to the book here selection is crucial I can't emphasize this poison point enough in most cases when I've been asked to intervene in problem dog situations what I instantly see is a Mitch map mismatch such as either a slightly built person or an elderly couple who have a 75-pound high-energy dog who they can't walk without being dragged along those people are physically incapable of exerting enough force to stop that dog for moving a necessary first step in getting a dog to walk properly on a leash that's just one example of how better selection could have resulted in a better relationship and again you that's a real obvious one that's one of the easiest ones understand oh I'm a small old woman and I can't get a hundred pound dog to drag me around but there's a lot of a lot of other characteristics that are way more nuanced for instance a dog that is super high-energy and you're a working person that's busy all the time you got to work on your home and you're gonna have that dog nipping at you all the time play with me play with me play with me play with me that's not gonna be a good match that's not gonna be a good match at all and and you see well you were quoting some of the quotes about I mean tell me a little bit about dog ownership in America right now because I think a lot of it selection has a lot to do with where we end up with problems so there's two things really I mean dog ownership as a whole is it's a goatrope honestly and that's where this book stems from that's where my my team dog online training program stems from and frankly the the campaign that I'm about to launch that that is in essence the crux of the problem with with dog ownership in this country is that it's it's mismatched poor selection and most importantly it's just an inability to communicate properly with the dog and and and what that stems from is very simply is that you know dogs minds the if you think about it from from the most basic standpoint you can is that you know you you know we're having this conversation verbally right you dream in a language you're talking a language you think in a language we communicate overwhelmingly verbally now when you think about about dogs is that just something as simple as you and I meeting if if I come over I shake your hand and we smile and nod I you know touch your shoulder or whatever walk away if somebody can see that from across the parking lot and know that was a cordial cordial greeting you and I stand up next to each other and we're looking each other like this and doing this kind of stuff and sizing each other up and turn around again from across the parking lot you know those two dudes are about to brawl now if it's that easy for us as human beings who are overwhelmingly verbal and how we communicate to pick that thing up now imagine a dog who's never thought in a language who doesn't dream in a language doesn't communicate in a language now now think about how important body language and nonverbal communication skills are it's everything to a dog and so their their mind is an algorithm it works like a calculator it doesn't work like like our minds and that's that's the biggest single crucial element where people make the mistakes as they anthropomorphize and they attach all these human associations emotions logic and reasoning to a dog's brain and it doesn't work that way you know the a plus B equals C you know the scientific jargon is antecedent plus behavior equals consequence but just think of it like a calculator is that grabbing the leash plus putting it on you know grabbing the leash a plus putting it on B equals we go for a walk see when a plus B is paired enough times to where dog anticipate C that's when you have problems how many people have you seen you know they have a dog that they grab the leash and he's just you know spinning around the moon and they can't even get a leash on him to take him for a walk let alone settle down that's why is because every single time you've paired a plus B it's equaled C and now he's anticipating when a and he's anticipating C when a and B are present so something as simple as breaking that context gets rid of that you know a lot of people let's put a prong collar on it was put a knee Kyle it's an iam and the ribs let's manhandle them all these things all you have to do is break that contact you know and it's really that simple is it whether you're trying to build it or whether you're trying to break it the process is the exact same you're gonna make a plus B equals C enough times to where you want them to anticipate it or if C is something you don't want anticipated you're gonna make a plus B not equal it so with the leash example its I go grab the leash I click it I wrap it around my waist I go sit down on the couch with it and now the dogs looking at you like his mind's blown he's like what the hell is going on we're supposed to be walking right now and then I get up I put it back and I go sit down and go about my day you do that enough times and now when you grab the leash doesn't mean anything to them so just as one simple example if you think about all of these different behaviors that we as human beings inadvertently create in the animal that that is why is it's a it's a lack of that understanding that their mind just works differently than ours as soon as you understand that coupled with presence you know I know you have to speak about this in your in your business leadership conferences in how you carry yourself how you interact with people is huge you know and if it's again if it's that big with people I mean you know you're the type of guy that you know you walk in the room Peter like this dude's running running the show right a lot of people you know that we've worked with or worked for are like that just command respect by the way they carry themselves by the way they walk in and if it's again if it's that effective just with us as human beings who aren't driven that way primarily now imagine a dog like I do exercises with dogs all the times where I don't say a word to them it'll be the first time I've ever seen a dog I'll put up a three-foot leash on them in a room with basically nothing in it and this is a dog that you know they've had all these problems with it's a nine month old crazy high-energy dog and I did it just the other day actually on the trip I was on before this this training facility was having trouble with this dog and I wanted to go to using some some compulsion methods some some prong collar an e-collar stuff to get the dog under control I said let me let me mess them for a minute so I I connect the leash to him I walk around with a minute just you know tugging on a leash and feeling him you know getting a feel for his personality but you know if you think of it like like a bumper or a buffer is that you're you're the buffer between that dog his mind and and the stimuli and everything that goes between it you're almost the gatekeeper and so when you you have to get inside that dog's mind and be able to reach it first you know which which means I have to mirror what I want out of the dog if he's a spaz I can't treat him like a spaz I can't spaz out and yank him and yell at him and get all up in his grill about it I need to throttle it down and and and be a mirror or a representation a physical representation of what I want out of him and so it got to the point where I finally got him to just relax lay down and I could get up and walk around the room and he wouldn't move and he had not done that before and it's not it's not anything crazy magic wizard stuff it's just it's a basic understanding of canine psychology operant conditioning and the four quadrants but but most importantly it's it's that nonverbal communication aspect that what dogs is just imperative when you another thing that before we move on past selection or get a little bit more but a lot of times people figure they want certain breed of dog right and I had a great conversation you with when I was getting a dog a while back and you were like look you could have a great dog that's a month you could have a great dog that's a purebred whatever you name it you could have a horrible dog that's a month and you can have a horrible dog that's a purebred whatever you want to name it or whatever that breed is it there's the the the the breed that you get obviously you got to look at how big it's gonna be and what kind of temperament but the temperament thing how how well is that temperament thing and how much how much impact is that there's the breed and the temperament align so I would say that there's there's basically two categories there's the working varieties in the non-working varieties when it comes to non-working varieties in other words your average domesticated house pet honestly it's it's a paint job and in my opinion you know breed really is what do you like what do you like what what does it look like and then what do you like it's purely aesthetic or almost that way because they are bred for aesthetics are not bred for working working traits known you're talking about now in law Shepherds Catahoula x' coon dogs you know terrier types rat terriers patter dales what or any type of dog does bred purposefully now it is a different ballgame now I would say that you know most mountain was as an example you know do have a higher level of energy a higher Drive that doesn't necessarily translate to good Drive you know a lot of people make the the misconception that no my dog has tons of energy he just needs a job he needs to work and he'd be a great working dog not necessarily you know it could be nervous energy it could be anxiousness could be thin environmental nerves there's a lot of different reasons but back to your question is that from a selection standpoint you know the if you're talking about any breed that you're just getting it's an AKC dog or even a shelter dog or whatever that's that's not bred from three four or five generations of lineage that's that's been selected because it brings certain working traits to the table it's a good dog is where you find it you know it really is mean it's it's what other parents like if it's out of a shelter just go evaluate the dog with the same tips that I gave you their honest saying and I do that I don't care where the dogs coming from it could be the best bred dog from the most pipe hitter ish parents I've ever come across I'm still gonna evaluate that dog with with zero kennel blinded miss with no bias whatsoever I don't care if it's a friend of mine I don't care if it's puppies I raised I I wash out puppies that I breed and raise all the time because they're just not what I need and that's from a selection standpoint to tie in the SEAL Teams and having been an instructor the reason I think that now I think the reason that that the caliber of individual that shows up at a SEAL team is is so high is because Budds is such a tough selection process I asked the other day like people asked me what you know did you learn how to deal with stress did you learn in buds and I'm like no you don't actually learn that you just if you can't you go away they don't there's not a class where they say okay when you start feeling stressed here's what you do or when you start feeling like you can't go any further we want you to repeat this mantra no no they don't do that they just put you in crappy situations and if you want to quit you quit there's no education no I think the only education exists is you learn who you are yeah that's that's a good point yeah but no one teaches you know I mean it's this I guess I guess the environment is what teaches you that another good thing you wrote in here and you just talked about a little bit dogs are meant to be active and are happiest when they're doing something and the reason I highlighted that was because it's the same thing with people it's the same thing I've been talking about with Joe Rogan it's the same thing I've been talking about with Jordan Peterson you know with Joe Rogan we're saying that you know you need some kind of a struggle to make you feel like you're accomplishing something with Jordan Peterson it's you know we talked about how if you take up the burden of responsibility that's what gives you a purpose and so for dogs if you're just gonna let your dog run around do whatever he wants well he's not really going to be happy is that the point it is and and here's a I would say a classic example of us as humans anthropomorphizing certain elements to dogs by that I mean that we we look at it as a job as purpose right again this is my opinion I'm not a world-renowned canine psychologist but but I play one on TV but you know the fact is is that you know dogs I don't think have that that depth of understanding of purpose they have what I would I would classify it as you know like a five-year-old is they have a need to be stimulated physically mentally emotionally socially nutritionally everything just like we as human beings and where you see problems and I see it all the time with with my online dog training is that you know when people first start out that it's it's kind of a reeducation of sorts of of saying you know number one you've got to put yourself in the dog's shoes and I'm gonna help you doing it by structuring these these monthly lessons so that they're cumulative so that you you can understand and watch your dog transform and then learn from it but what it is is that it's it's making an understanding is just like with people is that you know that dog needs to have physical exercise as part of his daily regimen he needs to have routine so that so that he can count on you and and and depend on you for providing the resources that necessitates his life he's got to have mental stimulation just like we do I mean you can do nothing but work out but think about the difference between a gym workout and a jiu-jitsu role in terms of what it does for your mind like it's night and day difference and so you can't just go make your dog blow his physical wad every day playing ball like you you've got to make his mind work and that's where using clicker to reinforce and shape behaviors comes into play because now they have to think they have to figure things out and it is it's it's it's mentally exhausting or at a minimum stimulating and they require that same with food same with sunlight you know is that if imagine you sit in here you know 23 hours a day or you don't go outside you don't roll you eat beef jerky and canned goods or McDonald's you know do that week after week after week where are you gonna be you know across the board physically mentally health-wise immune system everything's gonna be garbage and so what happens is a lot of these people they they think there's you know spoiling their dog I don't know when that became a positive thing but but you know they think that you know by not making him do things not teaching him things not enforcing things not having a routine in which that dog can depend on not stimulating his mind not making sure that he's physically active in keeping him in good shape that those are all benefits and they're not the detriments you know needless to say this applies directly to your kids and how you're raised together just everything you just rattled off it's basically how you end up with spoiled kids that are lazy and unproductive in their lives 100% and and by the way lazy unproductive and unhappy because they're not gonna be happy when they're a loser sitting around playing video games you know 23 hours a day covered in cheeto dust that's my favorite the you know one of the things that I think that is really interesting to me of how dog training kind of relates to life is that it's it's it's like a petri dish or almost a a microcosm of life is that no different than whether it's business relationship goals leadership a coach with his athletes a teacher with students a parent with their kids you name it but you know a general with his troops is that you have to have an objective you got to know what how do I want my dog you know what does a finish dog look like you got to know in your mind what is that just like you want to be a black belt in jujitsu you want to own a ten million dollar company whatever it is if you don't know where you want to go you're not gonna steer it anywhere you're gonna be floating around so you gotta know that first then you got to be honest with yourself in terms of doing an evaluation where am i okay now I know where I want to be I know we're on that now it's formulating a plan and then you schedule it and execute it just like every other aspect to your life there is honestly no difference the neat thing about dog training is that you know you can go through that process dozens of times you know as a dog trainer especially but even if you just have a dog that that it's a condensed process that's that's in a such a controlled environment you see the cause and effect you see that the criteria driven algorithmic process that exists in all of life but it plays out and you're manipulating it you're controlling it you're directly influencing every aspect of it and so I've learned more about people by training dogs and I would have ever imagined and you know I mean it's it's mind-numbing almost how much you can you can learn from training dogs and how to interact with people based on on all that you know it it's it's pretty pretty fascinating I think ya know there's no doubt I got that all out of this book too going on to what you talked about a little bit but just to clarify what you specifically wrote in the book here you talked about meeting a dog before we get into the specifics of that process I want to take a moment to turn this discussion around again and focus on you and not the dog if a dog is looking for someone to take charge and exert authority over him in order to not burden him with that responsibility then you need to carry yourself a certain way I go back to something I said in the introduction about wanting to be respected over being liked think about the kinds of introductions and greetings you've had with people and a variety of ways in which they've interacted with you how would you respond if you met someone for the first time and they rushed up to you hugged you tapped us a-- your hair jumped up and down and generally acted like you were the greatest person on the face of the earth wouldn't you think that or would you think that person's assessment of you was valid would you like that kind of physical contact would you think that this was a great starting point for a long-term relationship would you have respect for that person and then you get to this point where you say what kind of dog is going to be attracted to that kind of greeting and that message and the answer is a needy dog yeah that's an incredible point yeah you know we do you really want you know let's say you're hiring an employee and the employee you can tell just needs a lot of encouragement even though all fired up but the more you fire them up the more fired up they get well is that the person you really want to have that's gonna take you there to get emotionally prod them along to get them where you want to go the answer is obviously no yeah you know one of the one of the most common kind of scenario analogies that I throw at people when because you know I do a lot of speaking and events and conferences and whatever and you know one of the almost always offline people I call my dog I need to send them to him like that's not gonna fix it you know no different than you send me your kids like they're gonna work well for me not gonna work well for you because you're not not doing it but but think of it from a perspective from a boardroom is that you know when they say my dog doesn't respect me there's two things there's a big difference between respecting and enjoying or liking so the first first example I use is the you know being at a bar and I'll save the the heavy details but the gist of it is that if if the opposite sex is throwing themselves at you do you like that well yeah do you enjoy it absolutely do you respect that person no you know so you can spoil your dog you can let him sleep let him sleep in my bed I take him for walks I give him treats I take him to acupuncture and just he doesn't listen to me like I bet your kids don't either and that's why because it's it's the it's the 19 year old at the bar that's trying to flatter you that doesn't it's enjoyable but it doesn't doesn't garner respect the second thing on a more serious note is think of a boardroom and I use this because I talk with a lot of business folks and things different events and let's say that you're tasked with going in front of the the 12 executives of the company you work for and and your boss says hey you're gonna give a PowerPoint presentation and your job depends on this if you knock it out of the park you're getting a promotion you're gonna be an executive if it doesn't go that well well you're gonna pack your stuff and find find employment elsewhere now I want you to think about how you go into that boardroom right and I want you to think about visualize in your mind interacting with those 12 executives the way that you interact with your dog how would that how would that presentation go you know every one of them I'd get laughed out of the room that's why your dog doesn't listen to you because your dog you you can tell your dog that you're his owner all you want you have to show him that if he doesn't believe you because you haven't shown him that guess what you're not you can think about it and you can wish that you were you can hope that you were the fact is is that your dog is going to believe who you show him that you are and if that's a clown guess what he thinks you're a clown if you're an emotionally unstable you know Jay a that's how it's how he's going to view you if you're a beta male because you're rolling around and letting him you know do whatever he wants to you he's gonna view you as such you know and the most dangerous combination there's a lot of times you hear the word dominance get thrown around alpha and all this other stuff I can tell you I can count on one hand the amount of dogs that I've come across that were truly what I would consider an alpha dog and this is a dog that even with all my experience all of the manipulations I can provide in terms of setting the environment up to to make it so that I'll you know impact him that way he still wants to fight me over everything no matter what I do and I can't get in his head no matter how hard I try no matter what I do physically mentally environmental manipulation you name it less than five what was out of thousands of thousands of thousands of thousands in five that actually will need to be the alpha male over you with everything that you know how to get in their head that no matter what you do with them they still look at at everybody like you're below me a handful of them you know less than a handful of them and so when I hear especially pet owners like oh he's really alpha he's really protective and no he's not what it is they're just weak there's a power vacuum yeah and and so you know dogs again they don't rationalize I don't have the logic and reasoning we have they become hardwired with a set of genetically inherited traits that say if there is no nothing in charge if there's a vacuum whether I want to do it or not I'm going to because somebody has to and so when you see all of these dogs that are dangerous and guarding of food and and territorial and all this other stuff you have a dog that doesn't want to be in charge but is taking that role because nobody else will and that is a absolute recipe for disaster and that's why you see so many problems with with dogs and their owners is because of that simple fact and itself yeah you talking you know again we're talking about all these similarities here's here's the thing you got in the book encouraging that kind of over-the-top display of affection is the complete opposite of how you should present yourself to an unfamiliar pup or dog you were the one who is making the decision you are the one in charge and how you carry yourself into the situation and what signals your body language sends are something that any dog will recognize and decode immediately do you want to concede the position of power in that relationship immediately absolutely not and again this is the same thing as a leader now this doesn't mean you point this out in the book this doesn't mean that you dominate this doesn't mean that you come in and you're you're overly aggressive and I talk about that all the time with being a leader this doesn't mean that you come in and you're barking orders at people because that doesn't work either that that so you got to find that balance just like you do with with humans sure there's a couple things with that again with dogs especially because it's it's so simplified you know that that element is reduced to a very primal nature you know so when you have a dog that truly is dominant if you display that guess what you're getting in a fight if you have a dog that's not that way and you display that what happens the dog is scared when the dog is scared of you no different than if you you know have have a child that's you know at the third grade level you know when they walk into a classroom or they're sitting in a classroom and the teacher walks in and they blow their anal glands you know because they're they're getting ready to get whipped with rulers and you know electrocuted or god knows what else they're not gonna learn anything on a transverse if when you walk in there throwing spit wads and playing tag and ignore you entirely they're not gonna learn anything area there either so just like in all walks of life there's balance but what what it is is it's exactly that it's it's maintaining a level of of emotional stability a calm demeanor and and arrested but calculated mind in terms of how you interact with that animal and it's it's really it's not hard at all there there's two videos that I in my online thing called be the man be the man part one and be the man part two where I do exactly that I don't say really a word in essence to two different dogs both very strong very dominant dogs that it you know their their level of prey drive for a toy a ball have you is such that if I have it they just you know they start shaking and barking and bouncing and they'll try to take it from even though they're both personal dogs of mine in the past their drive is so overblown and over driven that it overrides everything common sense wise and you actually can't use that to train them because it's it's so so over driven but some people are all excited about prey Drive but you can have too much prey drive if you're not balanced I would say that it's to me that I would say no there's no such thing in my opinion for the dogs I work with I would say there's no such thing as too much there is too much to do certain types of training or that if I'm trying to teach obedience focus stuff like that no I won't use balls and toys like that because it is too much I'll use food or body language now when it comes to controlling impulse and things like that yeah absolutely but it's after I've done enough repetitions to where it transfers from being a decision to a reaction no different but you can end up can you end up with a dog that's his prey Drive is so high that he you can't take him to the park and trust that he's going to what can you train it out a clean train well you can control it you can cap that Drive by reinforcing it so think of it this way and this is the more drive and lack of impulse control that dogs have the more you know energy etc all the things that typically win dogs up in shelters all of those those components are something that can that can absolutely be controlled but the thing to remember is that think about the first fistfight you were ever in or even if it happens now think about where your mind is at it's at a very elevated state just like when you see an amateur fight or the first couple fights like you know they're just going in for the fences they blow their wad they you know whereas you see a guy that's calculated that's been doing it a while he knows how to control that that's that's what in essence what you're teaching the dog but you have to do it they can't rationalize that the way you do it is the exact same though is that you're putting them through so many repetitions no different than think about the very first time you were on your primary and you pull the trigger and nothing happened you had to think okay I'm gonna put it down and trigger control and you're doing all the things in your head at a certain point that becomes a reaction or when that becomes a reaction then you're trained same thing with the dog is that you've got to do those repetitions using things to reinforce it if the dog is in that state of mind because the key component is you got to do it when they're not in that state of mind to be able to control them when they're in that state of mind you have to build that foundation first just you know you can't you can't teach a fighter how to be composed by doing real real matches that comes in training and so it the the parallel again is exact is that you've got to you've got to use a classroom and what I do I use a 40 by 40 classroom where I use a clicker food treats affection body language and I and I teach and shape all these behaviors that I'm trying to teach until it becomes a reaction and then I just slowly start to introduce distractions and graduate them K through 12 until they're until they're doctors you know of going out and some of the videos I have of some of the dogs I've worked with you know and and one of them is a black German Shepherd actually just sold them to a big Metroplex SWAT team but I could take him through Walmart off leash I could take him to parks where kids are playing soccer around him and this is a dog that even if I have a ball he'll bite through my hand to get to it and I could get to wear without using any punishment without using any compulsion just by doing shaping and reinforcing and using you know that a + b CH will see over and over until it became a conditioned response and now the dog works on autopilot but it's like your name you know when somebody says Jocko you know how to think about responding you've heard it enough times to do that you know same same exact print principle what's up with resource guarding usually what it stems from is is it again an inadvertent creative created behavior kids messing with them taking food from them a lot of times you know see people I want to be able to take food I don't mess with the dogs when they eat now I need to be able to bump them walk by them take it from them if I have to but it's it's when a dog has really high Drive for something and you compete for that over and over and over you're building think of it like a barrier in the dog's mind and you've got a your goal is to kind of hit the refresh button on the computer screen and that dog is mine and so you know what I'll do like if a dog has real heavy resource guarding with with food as an example is that now I'll feed that dog his entire ration of food from my and throughout the day training so now it's not me setting a bowl of food down and now you're gonna guard it and get get crappy with me it's you know when you do what I want then you're gonna market and reward it you're getting it from my hand and it just breaks that context wide open and now it now it doesn't become a thing in the police dog realm one of the one of the most common examples of of that behavior misfiring is is outing you know when we're doing bite work and that dog isn't that's crazy elevated state of mind and he's Jenni's over lapping prey and defensive drive and you're transferring back and forth is it now you say okay let go just like the first time you got in a fight like you know one of your buddies taps you on the shoulder hey stop fighting like you don't hear that so to reach that dog's mind when they're in that elevated stated it all boils down to you got to enter their mind first to communicate but is it when they're in that elevated state in mind what what usually happens is they use an e-collar prong collar they grab their the dogs flat collar the roll it twist it and just like a guillotine choke and lift them off all that does is create conflict between the handler and end dog and it and it builds and creates possession over objects so with a ball you see it all the time people my dog won't give me the ball how do I get it from what are you doing and you're watching he's chasing the guy he's chasing the dog around with the ball how do I get him to let go of the ball get another ball make your ball sexier than the ball that he has the second he drops it you mark it and throw the new ball just like that now the dog will spit it out for you with no conflict with no no problems whatsoever but it's that way with everything it's with food it's with toys it's with your name you talked a lot about indifference in here as sort of a I don't know is like a base sort of reaction to a lot of stuff and I noticed that with my dog if I want my dog to drop a ball if I just ignore him for for five seconds the ball drops out and then he looks at me because he knows it's like okay can you can you pay some attention cuz I want you to fill this thing again boom bend down grab the ball throw it again he comes back he wants to he wants to fight for it but if I ignore him just just look away for three seconds yeah ball gets dropped then down take it yeah man it's the same it's the same barroom psychology why aren't you paying attention to me yeah but you know to bring it back to the dog aspect is that you know if think about it from from more of a almost a primal nature of think about kids when you watch kids what's what's a very natural when you bring several kids together what do they do naturally they chase each other it's a natural function in animals on the planet dogs are no different so if they have something it's a game as much as anything but you can you can turn it into something more serious as the dog gets older and they become more possessive and driven because you've built those barriers in their mind but in terms of the indifference piece 100% the the one of the first things I do with the warrior dog foundation the nonprofit that that I have that we retire you know former SpecOps dogs and police dogs and contract working dogs and all sorts of different dogs but the very first thing I do with all those dogs is I have a pouch of food I have a clicker and the clicker just for those of you that you know too so that you understand what I'm talking about it's just a little mechanical device it has a button on it pushing it goes it just makes a very mechanical sound that's unique that pairs whatever the behavior is with a reward it's it's a bridging of stimulus so just think about it like taking a picture you know is that you're letting the dog know that the the instant of what's taking place right this second is correct and a reward is attached to that but anyway so I let him out of the gate and I've got a two and a half acre training field around my kennel facility and so it's just me and the dog walking around with a pouch full of food and a clicker yeah and I I completely ignore him and I purposely walk away from them and anytime that dog comes over to me I mark it reward it turn around and walk away from them again and I'll do that for five to ten minutes three four times a day for a few days and I mean we've taken in over 80 dogs over the last eight years seven and a half eight years and to this day there's not been a dog yet where where that has not worked and I've done it with a lot of other dogs too but is that even if they hate people you know their defensive aggressive they're environmentally rattled their pts type issues what have you is that that that element of you getting paid and in me shaping certain behaviors works on on all of them but it works the same way with people you know that's one of the things in terms of something like the leadership stuff that you do is that is that operant condition a positive reinforcement you know the four quadrants while yes I work primarily in the in the positive reinforcement realm I do use positive punishment I use negative reinforcement negative punishment but for for the layman think of it from you know if you're your spouse is out of town and you spend the weekend cleaning the entire house right it's spotless you know kids are all in check you know the old lady comes home and the house is spotless the very first thing that she recognizes is that the one thing you didn't do was take the trash out and that's the first thing she's like you didn't take the trash out like I guess I'll have to do that you know that like that's her response how likely are you to clean the house ever again very not likely not likely whereas you know on the transverse if you know she grabs ahold and whatever you know or give you some positive reinforcer you some positive reinforcement maybe in another room then then you know that that speaks for itself you know so it's that same element and don't call me mr. clean around here I don't have to pick your head yeah you'll be cleaning the house every weekend you know so it's it's just it's it's a very simple element of you know one of the analogies you could use too is it's the difference between slave labor and a job with great benefits you know at the end of the day a task is being performed but one you know the level of drive motivation satisfaction happiness on one end there too you know 180-degree bipolar or despair at opposites so you know just it's just basic reinforcement but if you look at everything a dog does in that in that regard and that you know every every time that they do something that you want it gets marked and reinforced every time that you they do something you don't want it gets extinguished and or corrected it's very black and white another quick example is a toys in the house you don't like my dogs chewing this up to and out up do you keep toys in the house oh yeah he's got Kong's and other balls and stuff my rule of thumb and my advice to everybody is make it black and white and the dogs my again he doesn't know the difference between a tennis shoe a stuffed animal a Kong whatever it's all crap that's laying around your floor you know can you make them distinguish things yeah but let's not put the cart before the horse I'll teach him to respect what you say first and so he doesn't get to play with anything in the house if he knows that nothing gets in his mouth inside the house other than what I hand him then it's real easy to teach him don't chew on stuff it's outside it's in a crate it's in a kennel that's when I'll give you things to play with to chew it to tug with whatever and build that engagement work on the bond in relationship or whatever but you have in here when I see so-called problem dogs the problem stems from an imbalance of power and relationship and not from the dog so that's that's like the root that you see all the time the person's weak we have pretty much already talked about that and it's the same thing you see a lot with leadership where you've got someone that's that there's an imbalance of power and and but where it gets more complicated with humans as humans then do their own kind of self correct and a lot of times they over correctly under correct you know if they're being too if they're being too micromanaging then they go all the way the other side of total laissez-faire and now people don't know what to do or if they're being too laissez-faire then they go straight to level 12 micromanagement and again it's just it's just a personality thing or a mistake that they're making and it imbalances the relationship that we have with you because it's like yeah I want you to tell me something to do I want you to give me some guidance I just don't want nothing and and people lose that here's another one it's important to establish your authority over a dog dogs want need and seek that kind of presence in their lives you just hammer this over and over again it's easy in some respects to get a dog to fear you but it can be equally easy to get a dog to respect you just as true with human relationships a dog will have more respect for you if you make it clear that good behavior gets rewarded and poor behavior has consequences you may have noticed I have not used the word like or love up into this point in describing the human canine relationship that is not an accidental omission I've purposely not used those words because too far often I encounter people whose immediate response to a dog's to try and get the animal to like them in doing so they make fools of themselves and dog eyes possibly put themselves in danger because they assume that they know that how they treat their dog is okay with a different dog and mistakenly believe that because of all the nice things they do for their pet their dog should obey their wishes and in design unconditionally if you take one concept away from this from this beginning part of the book it's this don't mistake liking for respect and don't mistake obedience for trust we could be talking about human beings right there clearly especially kids you know oh absolutely kids and employees yeah because it's it's not a popularity contest yeah and and that's where so many parents and administrators or coaches or supervisors etc go go wildly wrong is worrying what somebody thinks about them you know and again I mean it's them to draw back to the microcosm of the dog training process is that you know what's the end goal getting your kids or your employees or whatever it is to think you're cool isn't part of the process you know it has no no relevance well I mean it has no no productive productivity yeah and and what's interesting about life life used to run the Java C course the junior officer training course which is the guys that the young officers coming out of buds and there was an officer this is the other end of the spectrum there's an officer that would come in to talk and eventually they've had it like back the guy tactically out of the schedule because he would say if you're an officer and your men like you you're doing a bad job that's not what we're talking about here you know it's not that you don't it's nothing you want your dog to aggressively hate you and you don't want your employees to think this guy doesn't care about me in fact I talked about this a little while ago like the more you the more you care about your people the more they'll care about you the better performance they deliver right if they don't think you care about them well then they're not gonna deliver any kind of a performance other than the absolute minimum that's required yeah well and and you know from from the dog perspective that's where you know the there is a little bit of a difference in that with dogs it's about engagement you know one of the one of the examples I use is you know how many times have you been to a park right and you see there's it's usually dad's but you know there's the dad sitting on the bench on his phone and his kids are swinging and playing tag whatever and he's oblivious like they could get kidnapped and they wouldn't know any better unfortunately whereas that dad that's pushing them that's playing tag chasing them around grab with him all that kind of stuff now when he goes back hey honey would you do I took the kids to the park but those are two disparately different experiences now you think about from the perception of where the kids are at the difference like it's night and day same thing with a dog you know and that's one of the things I'm so adamantly against dog parks dog parks are the iPads to to dogs what what iPads are to kids you know you can't have a substitute for that engagement with them you know you can't outsource your relationship and that and that happens way way too often you know again whether it's with kids amid you know with dogs whatever like you know there is an element of just like with anything is that you know there's you know training franchises that I'm actually planning on launching here later this year to help with that process but it is it's an augment you know and there is no substitute for for what you have with with your dog with your spouse with your children whatever there's there's nobody that's gonna be able to make that work for you if you don't want it just like somebody comes and make me a good good Jiu Jitsu artist like you gotta want it first like you got to be willing to put the time in yeah I have with dogs it's no different to that point here's back to the book the bottom line is that if your dog isn't doing what he is supposed to or what you want him to it's not the dog's fault it's your fault accountability it's your fault for not spending the time needed to train him properly we're not being observing the servant enough to recognize early on when and how your relationship may be out of balance many people are too lazy to achieve the results they want if having a spectacular relationship with your dog we're super easy everyone would have a have that and I wouldn't be running this book right now one common excuse I hear all the time is I don't have time well I can assure you you do have the time what you don't have is your priorities in the order they need to be to have a great relationship with your dog this is a little bit of extreme ownership for your dog and something we say all the time you your team's not doing a good job whose fault is it it's your fault you're the boss that's whose fault it is yeah yeah I mean and what I would hope is that the the people that read that read that that you know that you can take that that self-evaluations here you know and again i mean when i when i read extremal ownership was like yes it's textbook you know it's it's the same same exact principles and that you know if you're the one in charge guess what you know if it's not going well it doesn't work down yeah it's not trickle trickle down responsibility you know it goes straight to the top and that's something I'm added but adamant about with my employees is that you know if you don't understand you were then reason it's it's generally gonna be my fault right you know if you don't understand what you're supposed to do or you know something happened that that you weren't prepared for or whatever then ultimately it's my bad you know whether it's me putting the wrong person in a position to experience that or me not giving you the guidance prior to putting you in that experience to be able to deal with it because with dogs it's dynamic you know just like in the workplace you know training people to work with some of these dogs that we get in like I mean it's it's no circus it is a circus but it's no joke it can be a circus you know but it's the same same type stuff you know you talk about building relationships here going back to the book working or in my training of working dogs I still put myself in the dogs position and understand that it was important to establish a positive rapport with that animal before I began making too many demands on them so this is the the crux really of where I wouldn't say you know nothing that that's in this book or anything that I subscribed to is not anything new you know that I mean people have been have domesticated animals for thousands of years what I will say is that I generally don't find people spending as much time on that that simple component as much as I do and this is where I draw from my time with hard driven dominant working dogs that are biting people when you get in a bite suit and you're working a dog and developing him no different than you'd bring up young fighters that that is what what a decoy job is to do is to is to build confidence and and with dogs you know the nice thing is is that when it comes to to aggression prey and defense are two sides of the same coin you know just like reproductive reproduction and killing are two sides of the same coin is that when I'm when I'm in that suit and I'm reading that dog I'm exuding all of these things on him I'm either making him uncomfortable and putting him in defensive drive and then when he responds the way that I want gives me you know aggressive responds in kind with aggression I'd go back into prey Drive take all that pressure off and reward him coming forward I'm teaching him to fight me and and come forward Lee aggressive but the the way that that I have been able to develop that same strategy with pet dogs is because when you're in a suit and dealing with these dogs that are on a level 12 out of ten by comparison the pet dogs we deal with is that you know you have to be so over overblown or so dramatic with with how you're doing it to be able to affect these dogs that now when you're dealing with pet dogs it's actually really easy but what what it made me realize is just that same concept it works the exact same way with those dogs is that is that entering that dog's mind and getting that relationship first before you have that you are completely wasting your time doing anything else again no different than you know if you're a boss with employees or you know a military leader or pick anything is that if there is a trust and relationship there first as the foundation you're you're building a shanty on on sand you know in terms of everything else you try to do that without that you're essentially wasting your time and so I hammer so hard on the relationship component because it is it's I mean that's a universal truth in life ya know and it escalates to the more you build that relationship the more you can demand and of course in a relationship you're not demanding from people the more you build a relationship you're more you can ask for someone to give to you and the more they'll do for you because you have a good relationship with them for sure and there's there's also a reason especially my online training the the first five months there's no corrections whatsoever there's no punishment there's there's nothing it's all bonding relationship building and reinforcement shaping behavior that's not by accident the reason why is that a lot of times people they don't have a relationship with a dog that getting into X or doing Y or whatever let's put a prong collar a remote collar on and let's punish him a lot of people do that there's training franchises that the the backbone is using remote collars which I disagree with and it's not about a cruelty thing it's about an understanding is that if I have a great relationship with that dog and again you know the work environment whatever spouse and then we've gone the the full run of shaping and reinforcing desired behaviors and I have clearly communicated to him and positively taught him what the expectations are now when he's not performing up to that standard now if I correct him and punish him guess how much more effective it is you know because at first it's you're just you're just some other jerk that's putting your knee in my rib cage or electrocuting me or you know jerking me off my feet with the prong collar just like all the rest of them whereas now it's like your dad saying I'm disappointed in you but you know it's it's it's it's a lot more impactful that way you know so it means more dogs is back to the book dogs respect confidence power and authority and by dogs I mean all dogs mm-hmm I don't care how much of an alpha role any dog is assumed when someone comes along who exhibits those three traits to a greater degree than they they will step aside with the exception of the four the four that you come across but you know those those are dogs that I can assure you that nobody on the and the 83 million dog owner pet spectrum have ever run into you know these are unicorns for sure would you do with those dogs bred some of them one of them was out on the west coast actually as a working dog just retired you're not not too long ago if I had to pick probably the most gifted physically across-the-board dog I've ever come across it was a dog that was out there for several years and that came in we put him through his first handler course and then he deployed and did several deployments and just I mean he's a freak you know a absolute freak but the first years of funny story the first time I met him so we're running our handler course at Auburn University at their kin detection Research Institute back when it was still in in progress this was in 2011 we brought the dog in and we were staying at a local hotel there and it's a weak Handler course putting the dog through and my very first introduction to him is he was staying in the room with his handler and they'd spent some time together and had bought started the bond and it was like a Holiday Inn Express they had free pizza and so of course I'm like I'm not gonna pass up free pizza so I've got a paper plate with couple pieces of pie on it and I walk into the room the dog and just kind of cocks his head looks at me runs over and literally like a dude like a team guy jumps up and just bap just slaps it right out of my hand and he leans down and starts eating it and then I I started to lean down he just looks up and I've been around enough dogs where like I was like you know I'm just gonna let you eat that enjoy that be that one's on me buddy and the first time I saw our dogs working and I forget who brought him out we were doing some training and you know we it was set up but the task and it was doing a hit in a building and there was a guy that was gonna run a decoy is gonna run and I was out there and man when they so I see the decoy go and you see the dog sees it and the dog you you can feel it man this dog is ready to murder this guy as if this is just the most insane level of passion and he's just on the end of that thing and that you can see the handlers let and let him blend a bill letting it build let it build he pulls that quick release bro I was like oh my god it was insane to watch him fire off and he took off like ten feet to when he finally got like he's going a million miles an hour across this field he takes off about ten feet and just nails this guy dragged him to the ground I was like okay this is a good little system to implement here ya know I mean from the neat thing about I think capability wise is that it's you know it's a it's a non-lethal form of yeah of capture you know which is obviously very valuable the deterrent aspect the psychologic intimidation factor yeah that's a real beautiful thing too you know there's there's a lot of elements to have in those dogs there's just you know it's amazing you see it especially in law forcement you know but you'll have guys that will literally stand there with six armed officers and fight all six of them when you know drawn-on getting tased pepper sprayed you throw the 65 pound point here little little mound y out in the dudes lays straight down and yeah it's amazing but you know you think about it from from again from the human component of it's not natural to be attacked by an animal you know nor is it something that most people a are comfortable with B have ever experienced most people have mixed it up especially if they're getting drawn on by six officers prides probably not their first fistfight you know but so yeah I mean that that element of is is pretty this pretty awesome back to the book the lacks permissive attitude that exists in our schools our homes in our society in general has trickled down into how we interact with our pets while there are some benefits to our living in a kinder and gentler society they're also some huge drawbacks this is particularly this is particularly true as it pertains to dogs some people believe that it's impossible to have a well-trained dog and to never have to physically correct that dog I wish that were true but it's not the case let me be clear I don't employ I don't advocate the use of any kind of unnecessary force but please understand this important point if all you ever do is reward your dog for good behavior you love and and you have no consequences for bad behavior then your dog will not have a complete understanding of what's expected so when you were talking about you know the the fact that you sometimes do have to use a call a pinch collar you have to use a choke collar you might have to use a digit was it remote collar you might have to do that stuff in fact you probably will yeah I mean there's there's always the chance I mean the best way I can kind of break it down is think of it from raising kids or again employees like if if the if the consequence is is the absence of reward that's you know you yes you may come across a dog but again this is an outlier exception anomaly whatever coin phrase you want to use those aren't realistic aspirations to have with a dog like just like with kids like yeah hey if you don't clean your room you're not gonna get those peanut M&Ms okay well I'll go do it then maybe like you know what I'd rather not have peanut M&Ms and just not clean my room now are you gonna do about it you know like you're gonna run into that as a dad shock collar yeah two of them cattle prod you know so the you know that it's a bit of an oversimplification in terms of you know what it really boils down to is is you know when how how often you know things like that I mean it really is not so much a matter of if it's when it's just being smart about how you're implementing it so that a it's effective I mean kind of my rules of thumb for implementing compulsion or positive punishment is is that it's not when you're emotional about it it's not when the dog does not understand why it's happening and then the last thing is that the instant that the behavior has ceased the punishment has to also what you find a lot of times most times and especially early on if that relationship hasn't been built and that foundation isn't there again I can't explain anything to a dog well a lot of people you know we all have our expectations I know I want the dog to sit I don't want them to grab sandwiches I don't watch the kids over I want him to bark when it's 3:00 in the morning unless there's somebody breaking in he doesn't know any of that you know so we have to teach them and if you again just like with the human component if you're trying to teach somebody something and they don't understand what's expected of them and you're punishing them for not understanding it that sucks you know and that's unfortunately that's how most dogs go about their lives is that you know I don't have a relationship with this dog let me throw a prong collar an e-collar on him and make him do these things and then he just shuts down he's aversive to its talk about that drill we put the e collar on people yeah and you have them do a little task yeah it's a real simple you know it dovetails on to this you know this kind of principle is that you know again so that so you can put yourself in a dog's shoes is that and so what I do when I run handler courses you know let's say it's you two I'm gonna have you know you be the handler echo is the dog so we're gonna put the e collar on his bicep I'll take you out into the next room Roger that so I'm gonna I'm gonna take you out there and say okay we're gonna come back in here and I want you to get echo to take this shell on front thing put this here and put that there that's his his task so for those eternal listening it's like a menial task it's put a pencil and a paper clip on to a box and they're gonna be sitting on the table in the middle of the room all separate from each other and there's a bunch of other stuff crap here so when we come back in now you don't say anything to him we're not allowed to talk and so now echo just starts grabbing stuff and every time he grabs the Sharpie he gets shocked he grabs the the the T he gets shocked he grabs the knife he gets shocked he messes with the paper he gets shocked after five or six maybe ten you know he's a strong guy who can take take some punishment he cranked it up he's not getting that he's messing with the wrong stuff I'm gonna hammer him harder what's he gonna do very quickly he's gonna do this he's just gonna sit here and say I'm not touching anything anymore he becomes aversive to all the stimulus stimuli on on the desk on the transverse and so what that teaches you is that if your dog doesn't understand that that that's what happens and that's the position you're putting your dog in is the very one you're in and it sucks so don't do it is that you've got to explain to him what you want and you do that through shaping and reinforcing and so the transverse is now we go out we pick a different drill and we come back in and now you have a clicker with humans you can say hey the click means that it's good with dogs obviously you have to pair something to it but you correct in a tree yeah you could click and give them a jelly bean or whatever but so now you come in and the the only absence of that is when he met like if he grabs the sharpie now and that's not part of the drill nothing happens very quickly the dog will do what's what's called learns through self discovery and I start to offer behaviors you probably see it in in your dog sometimes when they just start doing stuff looking at you if you have something and they start doing arbitrary movements they're trying to figure out what it's going to take for them to do to get what what they want that you have and so now you wait and once that once he grabs what you want you mark it and so now he's like okay well it's something with this and now it's fun it's a game and he's trying to figure out as mine's working as positive everybody's having fun the first example it sucks you know it's painful it's stressful there's cortisol it's chaotic and again that dog is a plus B equals a and you say the percentage of success is your first method is zero production I have not ever done that and I've done it god knows how many times I have never done that experiment where somebody successfully perform that task not one time on the transverse I'd say the only time where they haven't been successful is due to brevity is that it's taking longer but they either get really close or they finish it and everybody's laughing you know because then you know the whole rest of class is watching and do they're usually laughing during the the e-collar one you know but but it it paints a very clear picture because a lot of times people they have not put their self in the dog's shoes again just like with leadership is you got to relate you got to understand how it's gonna impact people when you're implementing different protocols or procedures or leadership principles what does that look like on the other side you know doesn't matter if it makes sense to me it doesn't matter if it if it seems sound to me if they view it as like this is crap it's unfair it's whatever it may be but you've got it you've got to figure out how to manipulate it so that that they understand a what the expectations are be what the consequences are and then see ultimately what what comes from both of those depending on what they choose to do and that's to me that's the beauty of operant conditioning with with dog training is that you're you're letting the dog dictate the consequence and no different than with any of us it they enjoy it you know and it stimulates their mind which they need which is another benefit to bonding in relationship with them is because if you are the ones stimulating their mind guess what now they want to hang out with you more they will listen to you more your blue chip bank and just gets overloaded because they've had so many positive experiences where they've had different things that it's a desirable on urine that doesn't mean anything to them but they're just trying things out and now they do it and it gets marked and rewarded and it's fun it's a game and it's just it's a it's a self-replicating process that that has a ton of benefits for you for you and the dog I thought this part was interesting you're just and it's important to know as well to understand dogs a little bit better a dogs sense of smell is somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 thousand times as sensitive as our own there's a PBS television show Nova where as guy named James Walker and this is a quote from the book he said if you make the analogy division what you and I can see at a third of a mile a dog could see more than 3,000 miles away and there's another example Alexandra Horowitz the author of inside a dog did something similar but kept the comparison in the olfactory realm you can tell when your coffee has tea or sugar in it by taking a sip of it a dog could sense that same teaspoon of sugar diluted in a million gallons of water just by using his nose that's insane yeah long and from a so there's two reasons why that's important on the working dog side it's pretty it's pretty clear to see the benefits that that that has in terms of you know sniffing explosives that are buried and detecting people that are hidden in false floors and tracking people and things of that nature on the on the pet dog side where that comes into play is that is that same you know from a relationship standpoint is that they recognize you by the way you smell they recognize your kids by the way they smell in terms of training interacting with them using treats rewards toys things of that nature it you know it plays big big dividends or pays big dividends too so it's just one more component that you know the reason that the book is called the Navy SEAL way and I if there's one thing I could say that I wish I had done a better job with was kind of relying why why that is is that you know when I think about our reputation and our efficacy and success as a community since its inception why is that you know and it's it's everything that's in this book just related to dogs it's well it comes by selection you know have a have a very stringent selection process but then above and beyond that you know seals don't have this the success and reputation because because they're good shots or in good shape or have great intelligence or have some of the best platforms and augments in terms of close air support is our whatever it's because they have all of those things you know it's it's managing the every single intangible that you can possibly manipulate and control and stack that deck in your favor so it's not just training it's not just selecting the right dog it's not just feeding them good food it's not just keeping them in good physical condition and an ideal body weight it's not anyone you know component of that it's all of them and so that the Navy SEAL way it's it's more about us on a big scale in terms of how how we've gotten to where we've gotten and by using all of those same same concepts you know and I used all of those same concepts as a trainer in terms of my selection process is is god-awful you know there's times where we would go on on trips to go find dogs and and and since then even were you know I may look at dozens or even hundreds of them to find one you know you know Sims I would say probably attrition rates are even even worse than than buds you know and you may have a fraction of a percentage or in the single-digit percentage of dogs that I look at that actually end up making it so you know but it's it's that crux of and again same same with business it's like it's not just having good accounting it's not just having good leadership it's not good just having good recruiting it's not just having good budgeting and funding it's it's all of those things and when you manipulate the environment and stack the deck in your favor make things very consistent in black and white have an ideal have an idea in your mind of what that finished product is and be able to visualize that know where you're at develop a plan and execute it again it just goes back to the the microcosm that dog training is that that mimics life but talk about this thing in the in the book you talk about look for the intelligence behind a mistake what do you mean by that so I found that pretty cool yeah so the you know the intelligence behind the mistake is is essentially a teaching moment you know is that understand why it was made ultimately it's it's you as the handlers fault for why mistakes are made but but understand why the dog made the mistake you know and and it could be you know it's generally gonna gonna be reduced down to lack of communication on your part a a confusion of expectations on the dogs the same with humans same with humans those same with humans yeah and then and then the last thing which is probably one of the most imperative things saying with humans is is bringing emotion into the equation dogs are while they have some simple emotions that mimic humans they're nowhere near as complex one of the jokes I start a lot of my speeches out with is we're gonna find out who loves you more your spouse or your dog locked both of them in the trunk of your car for two hours after two hours can pop the trunk who's happier to see you you know dog doc hey buddy where you been you know your life's gonna slap the hell out of you so but that they are that simple you know and it's it's an Achilles heel of sorts we were talking about it before we came on came on air is the iPhone you know that that's really dogs are actually so simple that we as humans because we're so much more complicated now we think and emotionally charged and what have you that we make them way more complicated and harder to Train than they actually are it's a we need to oversimplify it and end to me not to get too far off on a tangent but that's it's kind of like world world policy you know foreign policy from from an international standpoint is it sometimes the simplest solutions are the best for the most complex problems you know foreign policy being a bar fight you know if if you're gonna go walk into that bar you're gonna get in a fight you know and you better bring everything to bear to make sure that you're safe but realize that by walking in there no matter whose side you take no matter what happens you're gonna create at least one enemy probably several you know so you better make damn sure that going into that bar is worth going into before you go into it to me that's a pretty simple solution it's a simple way to look at the world's problems we don't do that you know we over complicate it but it's that same same mentality with a dog though is is that you know most times it's the most simple solution to what you think or perceive is the most complex problem and it's really not that complicated yeah yeah you talk about you go through a whole section that's about reading your dog and and what signals to look for and it's the same thing with people you don't get to learn how to read people but you talk about their eyes you talk about their ears what their ears are doing you're talking about what their tail and this is these are all things you told me when I was getting my dog is you know things to look for and man they were spot-on just just looking at their posture interestingly we just had Jordan Peterson on we talked a lot about posture he's got a new book out called 12 12 rules for life in the first chapter this is how to live your life the first chapter stand up straight with your shoulders back it's like yeah and you can see that in dogs and you can see that you know in the way that you stand around your dog you've already talked about that a bunch today but just to make sure that you have good posture as like simple as that might sound and what do you look for in a posture of a dog so this is where it depends on what the what you're looking for what the end goal is if I'm looking for a pet then I probably don't want a cocky scorpion tail ears up chest out looking like King Kong and like he owns the place for a good strong working dog yeah I want a dog that's gonna make make my back-end pucker by grabbing a leash and opening his gate and clipping it to like his dogs making me a little nervous because he's walking around looking at me like I don't sweat you that's one of the biggest misconceptions is growling you know people think you know growling growling is weakness growling is is being scared and and it's peacock feathers essentially it's it's a dogs way of saying you're making me uncomfortable I'm gonna do this and in hopes that it makes you you know it calls your bluff and backs you down when I see a dog growls I know I can get in his head faster than a dog that's standing there looking at me with his tail just feather in a little bit with his eyes pinpoint and dot you know non non dilated pupils and looking at me like dude bring it and you know that's the dog I worry about not the dog Rylan with his with his hair up and his ears back and his and his lips curled you know that dog I know I can run him if need be but it's just a matter of grabbing ahold of yourself and saying let's we're gonna do the man dance and I'm coming after you and 99 times out of a hundred that dog doesn't want anything to do with it but you know for a pet you know again it depends on you know am i active do I want a dog it's gonna play a deterrent role in terms of protection and you know do I just want an active companion do I want a docile dog that you know my kids can snuggle with you know so to me again just like with the kind of the the macrocosm of you know what what do you want out of the dog you know let that drive your decision and work backwards from there but no but I think the key point is here know that there's traits or visual clues that you can look for that indicate what kind of a dog what kind of personality the dog has you know so then and if you don't know those and you just go to a random place and you pick the dog that came up to you fastest and was wiggling or the dog that was all shy and looks so cute in the corner there's consequences to get in those dogs and they're all over the place and if you don't know what you're getting you're wrong yeah well and you know the conversation that we had before you selected yours you know that you hear a lot of things because I'll turn the dog up upside down or put him on his back and see if he's calm you know and there's people that know if he's calling us the one you want if he's acted that's the one you know to me it's all talk crap honestly what I like to do is is just like in any other selection process I want to take the dog out of his comfort zone and see now see how he how he reacts his comfort zone is where he's been raised where he's been living with his littermates with his mom you know if you go to a breeders house and you evaluate a puppy with the the litter running around and the mom standing there you are not getting an accurate representation of what that dog's genetic components are not even close there there are so many things that have been smoked and mirrored in the dogs benefit he's gonna look much stronger and better and active and drive here and dominant and whatever then then he truly is if you want to really see that dog at his genetic face-value take him somewhere where you know he hasn't been by himself you told me Home Depot yeah I think is it great because there's things going on at home because stuff there's noises there's a bunch of people running around there's other dogs in there there's kids there's all kinds of chaos going on in the help oh yeah I mean you'll find out about a dog's environmental nerve faster than anything there you know and so but it can be anywhere busy it could be a parking lot it could be Walmart it could be an airport I mean wherever you can find that home depot is gonna get flooded with us dogs by the way just FYI test dogs like the little puppies they're not potty trained yet yes so fYI for everyone here here's a cool story you put in here back to the book Carlos came to my care several years ago he was 7 years old at the time but he had bit had to retire from the teams during an operation in Iraq on a raid that resulted in an intense firefight he and his handler approached a building suspected of housing cached munitions just short of the entryway a remotely detonated ie D threw the pair back several yards Carlos broke his back and his high legs and hips and collapsed his sinuses and his lungs for privacy reasons I can't go to the injuries his handler sustained other than to say that they were extensive medical personnel acted quickly and both the dog and the handler survived Carlos nearly prevented that emergency treatment from being initiated despite the severity of his injuries he crawled to his handlers side and took up a defensive perimeter near his fallen comrade no one trained Carlos to do that he did it for one reason loyalty and not you know that can't be taught you know just like it can't be in people it can be reinforced you know it can be conditioned tweaked a little bit one way or another it can be broken for sure but that that is a in my opinion eight a primal genetically inherited trait that either exists or doesn't just like with heart you know and that's that's something that's excruciatingly ly rare obviously both in humans and and dogs and it's one of the one of the ways I test a dog is that as I want to test their heart and and see if if when push comes to shove if they if they want to fight me you know and Carlos was was a warrior of the highest magnitude no doubt about it you know you know he spent several years with us and then ended up I retired him to a dog friend of mine in Florida that had him for a little while and the last picture I got him got of him was watching the Super Bowl laying on a leather couch with a Kong in his mouth I got a couple weeks before he died right oh yeah he got got the full spectrum got the full retirement yeah good deal you know dogs possessed here back to the book dogs possess the capability to be loyal capability to be loyal a dog owner as a dog owner you should not take that loyalty for granted or exploit it you should work to give your dog a reason to be the most loyal to you he can possibly be I mean does that not go 100 percent with human beings as well it's it's you know let your dog know that he can trust you yeah be a leader make sure people know that they can trust you I mean come on here's an another interesting little story you got in here so you got a guy Bob who whenever he's working on his car he loses temper goes crazy throws tools around he doesn't know why his dog doesn't you know like it back to the book when Bob lost his cool even though Bob didn't direct any of his anger at his dog Rudy the dog wanted no part of that scenario maybe we was more sensitive to those kind of responses than other dogs might have been but Rudy basically lost respect for Bob bob was the guy he expected to be in command and in control and he wasn't what made things worse for Bob was that he knew that was the case so so the reason I pulled that one out is because again I talk about all time hey if you lose you if you lose your temper as a leader you're weak you're you're gonna look weak your gonna appear to be weak and and some people can't control their temper and that's just wrong but even a dog even a dog will look at a leader that loses his temper and go okay I can't like in you I'm not following you that's me I would say not not so much even a dog I would say a specialist well there you go you know because it's you know I can't I can't talk to my dog and say hey sorry about that I lost my cool it's not gonna happen again you know I'm still your boss but you know let's let me make it up to you you know whatever not that that's how you'd approach it anyway but but my point is is that you know you you have that that a plus B equals C principle in everything you know it's whether it's shaping behavior that you desire it's eliminating undesirable problem behaviors that you've inadvertently created it's you know breaking breaking trust and ruining relationships you know one of the things that I like to tell people and again it's with with you know human relationships also is that trust is like a piece of paper and when when you break it it's crumpling it up into a ball you know you you can flatten it back out you can iron it you can get it real close but it will never be the same you know if you truly break it you know the way that a lot of people do be careful with that you know because it you only get one one crack at ruining it and then and then you're faced with an uphill battle the nice thing with dogs where they're more forgiving and and pliable mentally than than our humans you put them in the trunk of the car for a couple hours and you're still alright yeah then you did the transverse of that is if you show your dog that your own flap when you consistently project an image of authority that your dog will understand you can count on you so don't lose your temper don't do that as a leader either here's another one that you throw in rewards like Corrections should be proportional the surest way to reduce the effectiveness of a reward is to overuse it and that's obviously true with people as well first of all if you're if you're not just with your punishment and somebody makes a small mistake and you can hammer them destructively that's not helping you and at the same time if everything that they do good you're jumping up and down like a cheerleader that's not going to do you any good either it's same with a dog sure and you know the other thing that the varying the reward schedule and also there's times that goes all into variable rewards yeah right isn't there some kind of well there's a psychological help with dogs it's an excuse you told me about something with with iPhones though yeah yeah like you're looking for the little thing to pop up and you think maybe this is the message from from whoever the president yeah this could be the one who don't want instead it's just an advertisement for something yeah sometimes but one day it is a message from the president but that keeps you in the game how many of those so you use variable rewards with the dogs so with with training it's kind of again it just falls into a cumulative process at first it's every time you know so that there's the consistency so that that's the explanation of the expectation is that you do this you get that you do this you get that until now it's Spitz wired once it's wired now it becomes just like if every time you pick anything pick anything you like you know for every Friday we're having steak and ice cream like after a while it's like no steak and ice cream again see that that dog will get to a point where now it's actually we're not having steak and ice cream we're having tofu burgers joke's on you he's like wait what you know so now whatever it took that week to get steak an ice cream on Friday maybe I'm gonna work a little harder and you'll see that out of them and so and this is more on the on the competitive side but you know when you're judged on on flashiness and precision and speed of execution when it comes to different behavioral components of obedience routines and people want to speed those up and make them more laser-like in their precision that's a very effective way to do it is it now sometimes you get it sometimes you don't so now the dog is it's the lottery mentality of doing scratch offs you know I mean nobody wins the Powerball but the scratch-offs it's like wow you know made 12 bucks yeah you know I can almost buy what I just spent on them you know I almost got my money back on buy them again but but we're you know human beings are wired that same way how many people waste their money on scratch-offs a bunch of them for that same reason it's a it's a psychological aspect that that actually is very powerful in a dog but the caveat to that is that you know make sure that it's it's an ingrained conditioned response before you start doing that but yet it is powerful in terms of the flooding when I when I'm bridging certain things together like if I want to go from you know I'll teach a dog to recall which has come to me first when I'm teaching him to get his back-end into you know his shoulder hits my knees starting it get kind of a healing position in the sitting position that's one component and then actually walking off and then starting to heal when I want to bridge all that together sit so you know if I just give him the the what I call plots command which is Dutch for place is it the dog you know it does all of that you know he comes here he gets into the plots and then we and then we heal off basically when I bridge certain things together if I've been building a couple different components and when it clicks the very first time I'll flood five six seven rewards all all right at that at once so that he's like Oh payday it's a jackpot yeah so it's it's kind of almost a successive approximation in terms of you know teaching different different steps no different than in jujitsu and different elements of a move or whatever and then once it's paired all together now they get the tap out they're like sweet you know same same guys everything yes ding ding ding ding ding ding back to the book beware that your dog has no concept of what words mean in other words if you repeatedly say the word down as in down down down your dog will associate that more lengthy expression as his cue to lie down keep it simple and clear simple clear concise language I did that you talk about in the book I did the broccoli thing with my with my dog with my wife and she was all shocked you know because it I was like hey your dog you know even though you think your dog knows what you're saying he actually has no idea and then you talk about in the book I did with my dog yesterday I said hey our dog has no idea what he's what we're saying which is what do you mean I said he doesn't know what's it means she said what do you mean I said watch this and so I gave him the calm he came over and I said broccoli and he sat right down just like I said sit and she was all looking all confused and I said yeah that's right these dogs don't know what is it but it's the body language and it's the expectations and whatever little subtle cues I have when I want him to sit I did it and I just the word came out of my mouth was broccoli context I don't present what dogs are you know the beauty of dogs is how powerful context the Achilles heel is also context in it for that same reason but yeah it's a it's important to make that distinction that's where you know using using that shaping of the behavior as your best friend in terms of you know like I said I use a classroom you know there's a reason why libraries and classrooms are the environments that they are so when we teach our kids what we want them to know it's a distraction-free environment it's you know positive learning experience it's a it's a petri dish for education when when you try to do things where you know the dog is in the house and doing all these other things you know there's all these other stimuli going on and it's distracting and the dogs not picking it up and it's not building that context so I use a 40 by 40 training classroom it's just it's a fenced-in area with nothing in it and we go in there and I just stand there and wait for them to start doing stuff and then I mark it and reward it and shape it and then from there I start to shape a little micro nuanced you know the dog just turns his head won't you know a fraction of a degree one one direction I mark that and reward if I'm trying to teach a place command he looks at the bed I market and reward he takes one step a mark and reward and I just build on that over and over and over and the neat thing is once they dogs kind of have to learn how to learn that way you'll see that light bulb go on as soon as they understand okay you have what I want and I have to earn it I have to figure out what it's going to take to get it and they start to offer these offer behaviors through self discovery then that is when when you own their mind and you can teach them anything and it's one of the first things I teaches is a place command for that that simple reason alone is that it's so powerful on a dog if he can look at me and he knows dude has what I want and I have to actually go away from it to get it then then it's its own step and I know this question is gonna get asked all the time but you put it in here not only is it possible to teach your dogs to perform tricks but I believe you should regardless of the dog's age so you can in fact teach an old dog new tricks everybody's question yeah do you do you fill up the hard drive at some point where they can't learn anything new without forgetting something else not any more than any of us you know they can learn they can they can we'll continue to learn and to me one of the reasons dogs as with people expire earlier than they probably need to is because a lack of that stimulation that mental stimulation you know even if the mind or even if the body can't can't perform there's a lot of other ways that you can get dogs to stimulate their mind and keep them younger and healthier and happier than then just letting them expire on a dog bed you know five feet away from you letting your heart get too much in the way of your head and what's best for your dog will end up causing that heart more pain in the long run discipline equals freedom amen right I've been if you have an undisciplined dog that dogs gonna be miserable you're gonna be miserable everything sucks yeah pretty much absolutely yeah I mean it's like I said I mean the the that's one of my big goals moving into this year is is basically starting like a shelter campaign of signing up for the online training saving a dog and we're gonna be launching it here real soon but you know I I I firmly believe you know whether you want to call it a calling or whatever is that you know my goal is to is to revolutionize how your average everyday dog owner views communicates with and interacts with their dog because how many dogs a year gets sent to the pound 3.3 million dogs every year gets surrendered to shelters across this country and it varies your a year but usually between six and six hundred and eighty and seven hundred and fifty thousand dogs a year get euthanized it's over two thousand dogs every day getting put to sleep in this country even at those numbers you know and it's not as bad as it as it was but it's still astronomically high and the way I look at it very simply is that you know shelters god bless them are great great resources and we as Americans very charitable have opened up our hearts and wallets and provided pretty astounding resources for animals whether it's ASPCA HSUS whatever shelters rescue organizations you name it but to me it's it's it's no different than throwing money at the symptom you know it's not addressing the problem you know the problem is why are they getting there in the first place I mean because with eighty three million dogs out there you can't have enough resources to accommodate that you know and so it's like it's like the the pharmaceutical industry you know it's it's it's dealing with the symptoms and not trying to fix fix the problem you know of course there is potentially some politics involved with that in terms of maintaining funding and salaries and jobs I get all that but to me a shelter's number-one goal should be to have zero dogs in it you know if you're not if that's not your goal you're wrong and I'll call any one of them out right now you know your goal should be to be out of a job in in my opinion you know and to me that starts with with teaching people how to communicate with their dogs and it's everything that we've talked about but it's it's really not that complicated you know and then the the gratification you get from doing it yourself and the understanding of your dog it transcends just that you know just like you know with what you what you do you know you can take all of these same lessons and apply them to your kids to your spouse to your business partners to your employees or whatever and it all works the same way yeah we're gonna close out the book here I'm gonna run through these fundamental principles you have and and as I'm saying them think about not just dogs but everyone that doesn't have a dog think about people anyone that's in a leadership position think about leading those people as it applies to dogs one look at things from the dogs perspective how often is it we get of someone that works for us and we don't think about what's going through their brain and why what we're saying how what we're saying to them or how what we're making them doing back some appreciate the differences in how dogs use their senses to perceive the world same thing think about the people that you've got working for you look at the intelligence behind mistake you already already talked about that reward good behavior uh uh but how often do we not do that as a leader punished or extinguish bad behavior duh again but how often do we let little things slide we just if you're letting things slide if somebody wants to be late day after day oh that's okay we're saying it's okay next be consistent in the application of awards and Punishment well there you go this is especially true with kids if you're not consistent with the kids like they don't learn mmm and and I think opposite of dogs actually a kid if they think they can get away with it once like a variable reward but a variable punishment if they think you thinking about they're gonna gamble they can get away do it again dogs little dogs will test the water on your pretty hard that way a lot of them are more more intuitive and sharp than you think but keep emotion out of the evaluation of good and bad and the application of punishments this is super smart especially with kids and with employees and with dogs but if you're punishing the people or your workers or your employees or your dogs out of anger you're you're not doing a good job you're not doing a good job in fact just FYI when I have to do punishment with my kids I do it in like the most cold-blooded serial murderer kind of way that I can the gloves instructor as if it completely emotionless I was like well you know unfortunately I have to do this because of your behavior so go ahead and report to the garage you know so they're gonna they're gonna get hammered but I think that's better it's far more impactful you know I mean think about a bugs instructor like now I'm really screaming at you yeah you know it's the it's the the antithesis of the Marine Corps di like it's just white noise at that point understand they're like yeah when that dudes like whispering like I'm gonna I'm gonna snatch the life out of your soul crush it right in front of your face you know kid sitting there like 18 years old blowing his anal glands like Jesus what did I sign up for next understand how dogs communicate overwhelmingly through body language and used that understanding and method of communication back to them to elicit the kinds of behaviors we want and we talked about this before in the podcast you know you probably heard this before but they say humans humans communicate even though we're all verbal and all that is an 80% is nonverbal 80% is nonverbal this is probably someone will say no it's not 80 at 78 but it's a huge percentage is nonverbal well to me to me where I think you know not to get too off track but where the disparity is and is that in with technology so much of our communication doesn't involve interaction right you know it's emails its text messages even its phone calls whatever you know so I think in person maybe you know but because there's such that's so watered down right by everything you know well people do this I mean I've been working with businesses all the time we I uncover all kinds of people I have on all kinds of problems because they're only communicating through email or through text and therefore the people are picking up on all those other signals so we have relationships that get destroyed because you know I made a joke to you about something and it was in a text message and and I didn't put a lol yeah emoji after it so you didn't think I was joking all of a sudden we got an issue like so so this is definitely something that we have to remember that's why I have like a rule in emails I don't joke around and emails yeah like I don't know make jokes and emails unless I just completely if we know each other and we we can get we get there but I'm not joking around you know if I have a client I'm not saying you know I'll be there in a few weeks and hopefully I'll be able to sort your ass out there they're like wait wait a second even though I'd be kidding yeah but they don't know that through the email back to the book determined our needs and understand how a dog's prey Drive energy level and other physical traits contribute to a matrix of behavior what does that say your people know your people what's driving them what are they motivated by what's gonna make them work harder next provide a dog with ample amounts of exercise and interaction with other dogs and people in a multitude of different environments what I liked about that is yeah the the obviously exercise interaction multiple of different environments is where I see people that are in a training capacity they train people only in one environment and so they get outside that environment they fall apart no feed him a diet with maximum of health benefits within our means Hey right eat good food steak yeah basically we know we all know her furniture I brought home some of my Bros gave me a a cow femur the other day I brought it home for my dog just a raw cow femur you want to talk about a pumped-up dog rock and roll yeah he's still just getting after that fit that's what nature intended yeah before undergoing formal training develop a bond of mutual trust and respect so get that relationship going before you demand a bunch of stuff from people become the authority figure in a dog's life that he wants and needs take the time to be patient do multiple repetitions building different levels of distraction employee variable reward schedules all to ensure that a concept is firmly embedded in dog's mind now we'll talk a little bit about jiu-jitsu here you got to do the repetition and then you've got to do it in different you know you you gotta you got an arm lock you got a try an arm lock live rolling a hundred times before you get one and at least 100 maybe more and in order to shorten that time you got to do more drills and then you can shorten that time from 100 maybe you know they got to do it forty four times before it works you think about when you can learn a new move in jujitsu it can take a long time the better you understand it in the isolated training environment the quicker you can be able to do it live yeah but and from a behavioral standpoint it's the same thing like teach it in that sterile classroom and then move it into the living environment and going out for walks going past dog parks you know busy yeah playgrounds whatever is it you know people like yeah he's doing great in the classroom and I take him to the park and he just loses his mind like where did you bridge that yeah yeah you can't go from third grade to you know the sophomore in college and that's what you're doing like you're not you missed you missed about 15 steps in between there you know so my dog was distracted in Walmart you know locating idiot next use good problem-solving skills to identify the root cause of a problem and work out the solution to resolve the issue and not just hide it I get another thing you see this in relationships and companies where they just everyone is hiding this problem no one will address the problem no one's going to address the problem so if you got problems default aggressive get aggressive find a solution to problem and implement it that kind of wraps up this book like I said team dog is the name of the book how to train your dog the Navy SEAL way and good stuff in there not just for dogs but for humans as well and Mike obviously appreciate your service and not only what you did when you're in the teams but everything you've done and did once you got out of the teams and thanks for coming on the podcast now I know you got a bunch of things going on right now yeah well first off I appreciate you having me on it's a it's an honor and happy to happy to do it yeah in terms of everything I have going on I mean the to me the crux of what I would pass on to to anybody listening is is again is is the is really trying to get to the the root core of of communicating with your dog and and you know to me if if nothing else let it be an experiment and practice for the rest of your relationships you know because it does transpire or transcend rather you know just just training a dog but the online training just a month-by-month the other thing and go to team dog pet to check that out it's team dog docked at dump that's where you have online training where people can learn to solve these problems that they have with a dog to build a good relationship with a dog entering their dog yeah it's just it's a monthly lesson it's a cumulative process it starts out just like everything we talked about building a relationship for shaping a reinforcing behavior and then working on extinguishing things correcting problems etc we're in the halfway through the second year of it it's gone gotten some really good feedback there's forums that has I get on there and I answer questions every Monday with with all the the members and people interact with each other and give each other advice and post videos and a bunch of other stuff we're going to launch some affiliate partnership programs here with with people getting other people to sign up soon but that in conjunction with the book and then launching treecko's training franchises which are gonna augment all of the people out there that are subscribers so basically you know it's working with certified Draco's and team dog trainers all over the country that have these franchises everywhere that help you go through this monthly training curriculum and you know that the crux of it though is you know just like with anything you need help from some people you need guidance with learning olympic lifts or jujitsu moves or whatever but you mean you have to put the time in yourself but this will allow people to you know to to seek some some guidance in person from people if they're having specific issues or whatever that they're not able to get from the online stuff but we've had just overwhelming feed positive feedback on success story after success story you know these 65 year old grandmother's that have their Labradoodle out there you know healing and walking around dog parks and stuff and then they're just loving it's pretty awesome but so that's that's kind of the big big thing that you talked about tri coast I don't even know if we talked about tri coast yeah tri goes is the company that you formed up while you were still in know so this actually my second dog company but I formed it a little over five years ago and it's the the crux of it is is personal protection dogs police dogs military dogs we do sell up a fair number of dogs to private individuals for you know the personal protection aspect and that's kind of what I was born and bred out of in conjunction with putting on a lot of police seminars and selling police dogs and teaching at conferences and stuff like that but but yeah so that's that's my for-profit company if you in terms of everything that I have going on the best place to go is just micro uncom that that is the resource that talks about the team dog online stuff that Raikou stuff the speaking engagements the book for that or you know the franchise stuff coming up or even the warrior dog foundation the books that I've written it's kind of a landing page of everything that I have going on Mike Ritland comm and the warrior dog foundation again you mentioned a couple times but just give a little bit of a plug for that through people know what it is so we're a dog foundation we started it back in August of 2010 and we've taken in a little over 80 dogs at this point started off with just doing special operations dogs biet seal dogs Rangers whatever and we've taken in a lot of police dogs contract working dogs military working dogs and kind of our main main goal and function with that is to act as a as an indefinite sanctuary for those dogs first and foremost when we get them in we evaluate them some of them we've been able to repurpose rehabilitate and get to police departments and say you know some of them have come in spent a few months and then we've gotten them back to back to service with working with them and kind of unwinding their mind a little bit using a lot of the same principles that we've been talking about today but more than anything is that you know these dogs are at that kind of were their last resort you know they were going to get the blue juice here within days and and we step in and take them and either just you know continually try to rehabilitate them to where we can either rehome them to a civilian application or another Police Department or whatever or we just let them live out their life be a dog have fun chase balls and and run around the woods and hang out and retire and out to pasture so to speak but Warrior Dog Foundation org is the website for that if you want to check it out and of course we're always gracious and appreciative of any support or if there's someone that listens to this podcast and gets all fired up to get a dog obviously get the book I'm gonna tell you that right now get the books so you can make a good assessment make a good judgment and think it's a lot of work to have a dog I have four kids I've had dogs multiple dogs when I had a bunch of kids we actually didn't have dogs for a while because kids and dogs are a lot of work if you're not willing to put the work into the dog then that's you're not gonna be a good parent is that the right no you're actually a good dog owner so yeah I almost went sideways there so yeah gonna be a bad dog daddy your daddy yeah you're not gonna be a good dog owner and believe me I had a fight I got three daughters and one son and for the years of me beating them down saying no dog no dog no dog because I knew that I couldn't put enough time and effort into it to make it a dog have a good life and the dog be squared away and be disciplined and be able to you know protect my family so it took a while to get there but then finally when my kids were old enough you know I got one out of the house and now we have a good environment for it and so think about that before you run out and buy a dog yeah no absolutely I mean it's it's like with anything you know don't don't do impulse decisions do your due diligence and research and just like you wouldn't just now let's adopt the kid and see what happens you know I don't don't do the same thing with a dog yeah I'm bored it's Friday night let's go to the let's go to the shelter and pick up a new dog yeah you're not a good call all right echo we learned a lot about how to help dogs and train dogs maybe you could tell us how we can help ourselves a little bit is it true that no dogs don't have a personality they have a dog malady get it I need to work on the operant conditioning with that Ghost yeah anyway good news is chocolate supplements finally when I say finally not like yes finally like because the whole world is waiting yeah yeah like four decades kind can I jump in one quick second before that of course we are launching a tri Coast Dog supplement line in the next couple of weeks oh speaking of supplements go on try Coast down there for dogs I'm not stepping on your toes but yeah so you know check check check in yeah stepping on my toes at all expect in fact I expect a package of miles you would like okay ma'am just got a butt and he's got your advertisement in there hey pay for that what kind of supplements though like what is it supplement just made yes starting out it's going to be different oils and then we'll get into college and later this year and stuff like that it's all cognitive driven you know CBD and and different essential oil stuff and joint supplements and and stuff like that so it's a kind of a kind of a mix of a few different things but most of it is is for joint pain for overall health cognitive function things like that yeah and it all stems from the warrior dog research that we've done in terms of what works with them in terms of raw foods and different joint supplements and again the collagen is a big thing and just kind of drawing off of all of our experience with that but keep physically maintained yeah anything that's a big component you know it's like a bunch of broken warriors you know they take take a lot extra a lot extra care and an animal husbandry to keep them keep them sound yeah echo is using that as a segue I could feel it feel it well same thing yeah cuz Jocko supplements chuckles super krill oil for joints and joint warfare obviously also for joints glucosamine chondroitin curcumin somebody just asked me about do you know what you Jitsu don't your fingers hurt because you're with the ghee oh right yeah yeah yeah it's it's the common answer is yeah of course they hurt the joint warfare answer and the krill oil answer is no it's not too bad yeah your hands will get like sore like muscle sword yeah but my finger and then again it depends on how much of the key and how much grabbing you do have I do have a low key grabbing game yes awkward thing it's not that I don't grab the key cuz I certainly do okay but if yo I grab that key but if you are determined you get that look on your face like you want me to let go your key guess what I'm gonna do I'm gonna hold on it for the last millisecond and when you pull with all your might I'm gonna let go of it because I'm doing something else but yeah there's you you see the Miao brothers yeah you seen their hands yeah they're all jacked up and you've watched their Jiu Jitsu game that's because they're just they will not let go that guy though get into beard positions and it's it's gonna hurt I don't even know if joint warfare would help him out probably at least a little bit but maybe a little no that's that's your you know that's the life you chose kind of thing with the Carnegie yeah and yeah you have a real low grabbing yeah like I grab medium regular geek grabbing yeah um no joint pain by the way yeah I'm on krill oil krill oil water I think it's gonna help regardless I was that curious yeah ya know there are certain people if you have a like like surgeons we don't know people that are surgeons that trained jiu-jitsu yeah you got you cannot have a high the commitment Gregor grabbing commitment that's really what I'm talking I finally figured it out that's what I I grab the key a lot but my commitment on the guy grabs is relatively low compared to somebody that's all about all about that like that's 100% committed to geographic yeah that's true to me it's just a setup though like I when you're great when you're decide you're gonna get back you're gonna break my grip I'm there's since that's my game yeah you go to break my get rip I know that you're going to break my grip and I have the only the chain of events are about oh yeah yeah it's kind of like when your kid when you when you're playing with your friend or whatever like pulling his arm try to pull it back you're pulling more and more and then like you let go and you trip his leg he falls back same thing with chocos geek grabbing to set up yeah yeah set up nonetheless if your fingers are sore from your key grabbing commitment levels super krill joint warfare mine was the elbows am i back good good to go now also the subscription is now available oh yeah from what I understand well what's cool is because we have the data right everyone talks about the data we have the big data on on super grill on joint warfare and what's cool is when people buy it mmm they buy more yeah it's is that the best indicator I can see because when you try it you you feel it then you want it and so people had requested we put subscription so if you want to subscribe just get krill delivered to you yeah you can do that like a monthly yeah you can do mostly you can do every two weeks and you can do with that you could do with the joint warfare you can do with the discipline yeah is you lacking discipline yeah yeah you can get it now some people that's all they need just a little discipline and boom they're good to go speaking of which discipline what is discipline it's a cognitive physical supplement yeah pre-workout from me pre-mission free life for all it's free mission if you have a mission you take the discipline it'll help it there's some cognitive stuff in there some a little bit of caffeine right yes it's a little bit fired about 15 milligrams yeah cuz you go beyond that and I start to feel like how much is one cup of coffee it's like 45 or 50 right no I want to say a cup of coffee oh yes you I think you are right I look like a standard 45 or 50 yeah so you figure 15 you know third yep something like that's what's in white tea by the way there's no coincidence that that's a little bit more than I thought not that that's a lot it's not a lot at all really fifteen or is people don't want anybody that's a coffee drinker yeah they won't nothing to it yeah they'd like drinking 1/3 a cup of coffees not that much they're gonna want more for sure but it's not nothing yeah something that's true yeah yeah so that's good to me that's good nonetheless uh you know you take it before you do some something that requires physical and mental stuff just like how we're talking about there's you Jets you don't take it before jiu-jitsu though no I do take it I don't take it before I wait before you work out yeah cuz I don't it's early in the morning not about that I don't know what you're drinking now this is white tea I had a drink of that the first trick I had wished was the discipline you know flavored it is and it actually tastes good cuz chuckles like that yeah I needs it to taste really delicious it tastes good oh he's to my palate again and over is it wait who I'm talking about your own Mikey Mike is yeah yeah same thing that happened on Jordan Peterson podcast apparently I have a sensitive palate what is it refined refined but it's not so yes discipline tastes good yo JIT amélie tastes good you know what you can do and I don't recommend this at night well it's a little risky it tastes good enough to have for dessert really it's got a little sweetness to it right it's got a little sweetness you can take you can take it for dessert cuz you think oh man it's more like a little oh boom there you have some discipline you gotta watch out cuz it's if unless you have I try not to take it if I don't have something to do right now and if it's eight o'clock sometimes I eat late at night cuz I can eat when I get done training if I don't want to be taking it that late at night but why cuz the caffeine cuz the cat just the caffeine and there's the whole whole film like that the micro dose of caffeine so but I have last night I did because I'm prepping like 14 podcast right now so I I had some discipline late last night so I could gain what what do you mean dessert though so would he sprinkle it on a lemon meringue pie so I just mix a mix of a shake oh and then mentally assign dessert status do it it's my dessert now good although the other day I ate discipline yeah you are with me yes sir and I was saying it's kind of like doing a shot of whiskey cuz you know kind of you do a shot of whiskey go oh yeah you make it like a paste or just powder right we've got power did it I ate the powder that's like the creatine days yeah so yes Lilly the kool-aid straight I can be when you make the kool-aid in the liquor made what oh man I think I was about to ask you about that isn't I figured out mid-sentence all right knows less if or when you do go to buy these things you go to origin mean calm that's where they are super krill joint Wuerffel warfare discipline get the subscription what I'm saying straight up do that sounds like a good go now that I know that the subscription is available that's like it's obvious that that's the way to go cuz running out isn't good no by the way like when you read out yeah I know that's what I'm kind of mentally drawing upon to can tell you guys is very important also at or dominga calm G's and rash guards if you are about that guy grab commitment and you're gonna put on Aggie in the event of you wanting to put on a gear or needing to put on a key you get origin key all made in America also compression gear which is rash guards spats mm-hmm approved terminology proved which are what what's another word for spats let's say I'm just tuning in compression pants freshen pants yeah again this is spats got approved cuz you found out the root meaning yeah I'm nonetheless you get them from origin mean common all mean in America really cool stuff other stuff on their hoodies and whatnot anyway just go there you like something get something good way to support also if you are into and I always say cat mainly the kettlebells you can't on it and you know they have cattle you know on it right near the cool kettlebells the primal bells and by the way I got there I got this that's right and that's a big big foot one then Jaco thinks he's all actually Jocko salty that had a bigger kettle building him of course he had to go buy more but nonetheless I got the whole settled nose bigger than your kennel yeah but I got the whole set varied Caribbean or two of them together and start slinging them yeah I'm sure that's what he was doing for a while and he's like there's good a better way to compete with that code anyway there's other stuff on there as well actually I do mention this as well Mace's and there's like these little like they're called something bells they're like these little flat kind of leather weight steel bells is what they're called yeah something there you want to vary up your workout you know deviate from the mundane boring workout that you might be doing right now go there get some cool stuff good way to support also when you buy the books that Jocko reviews and also Mike's book Mike's got three books yeah books should I say team dog right yep how to train your dog the Navy SEAL way also the the K and then you think there's two others that were essentially the same book yes one others the same book SEAL team dog same field team dogs this young don't yeah well so there's a there's Trident cannon warriors and there's Navy SEAL dogs Navy SEAL dogs is Trident k9 warriors but it's the doctor ya know version two yep so when you're gonna get that booked don't worry I got you go to jackal podcast comm in the book section it'll be by episode will be all these books and all the other books from other episodes all organized take you to Amazon boom you click buy them I'm some prime you get the book that same day sometimes sometimes good way to support if you're gonna continue to do it do your other shopping you know that lawnmower that you're just you know on the fence about to buy get that to also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already iTunes Google Play stitcher inning anywhere else you listen to podcasts just subscribe that's a good way to support leave a review if you're in the mood I wouldn't say leave a review if you're not in the mood no don't I've heard people say that like leave a review oh no matter what no well actually you know what I'm that's not sure you have the capacity in your life and a good sense of humor to leave a funny review that's cool do it yeah that's don't Richmond yeah don't if you don't have the capacity in your life no no it's gonna take seven minutes right yeah there's gonna be misspellings in there right you really want to post that no just walk away agree the review also subscribe to youtube because we have a youtube channel by the way do you have youtube channel i do actually it it's yeah you can get there off of micro uncom also but yeah yeah yeah so subscribe to mike's as well you think you don't remember right now I can tell you about 90% on the micro on website I didn't put on there so I couldn't watch the bunch of your videos on that I'm sure if you just put Mike Ritland yeah yeah yeah in YouTube not to be confused with the other one subscribe we got the vision video version of this podcast and excerpts and deluxe excerpts so we're calling them right now okay and we're gonna work on their another jockey give me good pep talk the other day mmm inadvertent by the way because you weren't unless he was it seemed inadvertent that's the thing with this guy subtle like where he'll give you a pep top talk and you don't know that it's a pep talk at the time it's not that sounds more calculated than ever yeah at the end I'm like leaving the hole we drove back from LA whatever and I'm leaving it you have no idea what I'm about to do all this stuff I got it all planned out or whatever and it's like yeah I don't think jock will realize like that that really helped you know what we talked about yeah he does know numel and share what you talking about stuff I would say this wait and see yeah you know what I mean it has something to do with me being reluctant to post certain videos sometimes like gun-shy kinda yeah let let the hands go kind of let the hands go yeah yeah well the Wayne Wayne Gretzky quote if you miss 100% of shots you don't take there you go yeah no part of the conversation yeah what that has to do is with is video sorghum we're gonna release a little bit more videos different types of videos but if you like videos in relationship to this podcast in any capacity just subscribe to the youtube channel also chuckle is the store if you don't know already it's called chuckles door chuckles Darko this is where you can get chocolate podcast shirts discipline equals freedom shirts victory Emmett make sure it's on that chuckle where is every single day and you know some rash guards on there some hoodies on there you know any kind of gear choco choco gear really is what it is a very good way to support also psychological warfare you know what that is if you're on the path we call it the path a campaign against weakness is what we've always also called it and you hit those moments of weakness like you know you can you want to hit the snooze so to speak literally and figuratively you want to hit the snooze right what is heating the snooze in life just like I can't do it right now I'll do it later news and rife yeah like me snooze button should say hit this button and destroy all of your hopes and dreams the idea it should say that but hitting that what is that's like what like III don't feel like doing it right now I'll do it in 10 minutes right can I give you a product recommendation a new jaco product yeah what do you got developed on this it's a it's a snooze button shot-caller yeah or you can just you know what else you can do is you can hit the snooze button you can sleep in and then you can wake up 20 minutes half an hour later with that part of your life gone forever with your with your schedule now being off with the opportunity improve yourself physically and mentally gone gone can never get it back you can take that feeling you can embrace it then you can just go ahead and next time you see that snooze button you can get pissed off and get up and get out of bed and get after it yeah deal and you know what in a more maybe echo way of thinking about it to the you don't even benefit from the five minutes no other way it's sort a No yeah I'm more tired yeah cuz it's not like you're like dang I need the nine minutes of sleep or whatever you know and then you're like you get up you're like dang that nine minutes really helped me it's not like that didn't work that said you're worse yeah exactly yeah so don't hit the snooze but in the event of you needing help not hitting the snooze you listen a psychological warfare and this goes for any other little mom in a weakness like you're gonna skip the workout for the middle we know those yeah yeah we do nonetheless I just got I just got my first like mad look for Matt go I think bomber no no you got some before really well not not on the jujitsu man cuz you've looked at me real mad on the disease matter genuine anger by the way nonetheless you listen to psychological warfare it's an album with tracks chocolate racks chocolate telling you why you shouldn't hit the snooze skip the workout eat donuts sugar-coated lies yeah why you shouldn't procrastinate which is a big deal deal actually procrastination I think is worse than heating this mess for what's the same thing it is the same thing that's that is yeah it's a it's a physical and psychological manifestation of procrastination without question yeah your snooze but you're also say procrastinate now yeah go touch this button and actually in a way it's even worse actually straight-up it's even worse because the snooze button at least has like ten minutes later the alarms coming back on see I'm saying procrastination is an indefinite snooze button maybe we should call it the procrastination button yeah that's what it's go that's what it'll be called on the Jacko alarm clock yeah yeah boom there it is but that's what it's like glad to work or for a day Hey look when Jacko tells you in his terms why you should or shouldn't do things it makes sense when you just said the Jack alarm clock the one of the reasons why we actually made this was because people said kept saying oh you should make your alarm clock you should make an alarm clock well with this with a psychological warfare album you can take those tracks from the album and you can put them as your alarm clock if you choose to do that the big warning is if you're married you don't really want to do this too loudly because your life will freak out a couple other things you can get jock a white tee you can get it on Amazon and if you if you're looking to be able to deadlift eight thousand pounds as a minimum we have people going above that now if you get jock on white tee it's a guarantee that you'll be able to deadlift eight thousand pounds that's in there right it's on the package yes yes I mean it's already been approved by the FDA and the double blind for people yeah that's soccer white tee you know what straight up tastes awesome makes you feel good books again Mike's book Trident k9 warriors Navy SEAL Dogs team dog those are all available and also some books I got some books but for instance what if you wanted your kid to work out study eat good food trained jiu-jitsu and be highly disciplined what would you would you want that for your kid the answer is in error invariably yes you would so I wrote a book called way the or your kid so your kid will start getting in the game overcoming fears overcoming the layers coming fears not being picked on making a plan following through also I just had well soon to come out another book it's called the way the warrior kid - it's called Mark's mission now we go a little bit further what if you wanted your kid to take control of their emotions mm-hmm wanted them to learn and understand the value of money and how to earn money and how to save money wanted your kid to learn about helping other people wanted your kid to become a leader what if you wanted those things for your kids well guess what way the warrior kid to Mark's mission it's available right now for pre-order on Amazon so check that out speaking of warrior kids also there's a 12 year old warrior kid named Aiden and he has a business he's a businessman at age 12 he's making soap from goat milk on his farm he wanted to make good soap he said can I make jock low soap and I said do it Irish Oaks ranch com get some soap from Aiden the warrior kid and I think I inadvertently made up the slogan for his soap it's a simple it's a simple it's here but there's layers it's an easy stay clean I've said that's a you know I always said that that's an old Motorhead song or it's part of it so it's the lyrics of a motor hit song and and what I used to tell whenever somebody tells me all you know I've been Dre I was drinking and I haven't drank for six months or I haven't you know I was doing coke and I have the new coke for a first eight months I appreciate it or I was a drug addict or whatever and this is all like all mine these people saying the stuff online and and I always say man keep it up stay clean now I wasn't thinking about the literally staying clean but now we have a proper soap you know that will help you stay clean I didn't mean to 12 year old kid with a business that's pretty impressive yeah it's pretty that's legit was like the furthest thing from my mind yeah you think about what you were doing in 12 I would I would with my friend Jeff I would when people were going to put their trays away in lunch we would collect their leftover potato chips yeah and then eat them all we have a pile of potato chips on our tray yeah and we just different was I thinking about running a business was I thinking about trying to build a business no I was eating massive amounts of potato chips which is just other things where I was at yeah oh they didn't even pay for I thought it was so awesome free potato chips yeah cuz never when you're a kid your parents weren't getting you potato chips all the time no they have it they have a mound of potatoes with more almost more than you could eat but we did our best to eat them oh yeah so that's it that's a warrior kid books also discipline equals freedom Field Manual get it for people that you actually care about and want to have better lives that's people that you want to win in their lives the discipline course freedom manual will give them a very good indication and the reason I know that is well let's not even take my experiences from my life but what the feedback I'm getting right now people are getting after it they're losing weight or gaining weight or or getting more disciplined in their school in their life and the business they're getting better so you can get that and it will show you how why cuz it's a Field Manual I mean you don't know what that is that go I do my favorite kind of manual ok a field manual actually gives you instructions in the military you weren't in the military you know nothing about a field manual hey if you want the audio version of that it is not on audible it's not on audible you can't get it there it's on iTunes it's on Amazon music it's on Google Play other mp3 platforms it's an album with track so that you can use that thing for your alarm clock too you can put it in your mixtape what in your mitt what's it what's it called what in your playlist now you just have it in there yeah so if you pick the ones that you like that hit you the right way also extreme ownership combat leadership principles that you can apply to your business and your life other people are doing it that's why that book is still on the Wall Street Journal bestsellers list it's over two years old it's still there rocking and also with that book if you don't just get it to yourself for yourself get it for your team up and down the chain of command it's gonna make your life easier if you put it up and down the chain of commit if everyone in your team is taking ownership we have a good team if you need some help with leadership at your company I have a leadership and management consulting company it's called a salon front we solve problems through leadership and we do it all the time and we do it all over the world me Wave babban JP Danelle Dave Burke email info at Ashkelon front comm or you can go to our website Ashlin front comm of course we have the muster I throw this out there the ultimate leadership conference that's what I'm calling it the ultimate leadership conference and really conference might not even be the right word it's just it's embedded knowledge sure that's gonna come at you it's an experienced gathering it's a gathering there's no green room I haven't said that lately there's no green room at the muster that is a good point there's no bad I know that's why I've reminded myself what because I was thinking about okay well why would people want to come to this well one reason is there's no green room there's no backstage we're out there we're with you you come to the monster we're hanging out we're having lunch we're having dinner we're asking answering questions we're with you there the whole time we've done for so far they've all sold out we're only doing two this year a lot of people are objecting to this we don't have time to do more we're only doing two Washington DC May 17th and 18th in San Francisco October 17 to 18th that's it we are not a rock and roll band on tour as much as I want to be because people are saying well why don't you come to Seattle and why don't you come to Milwaukee and why don't you come to Norfolk and why don't you come to Memphis like we're on a rock tour yeah like we're just making dates no this is the the only two we are doing Washington DC May 17th 17th and 18th in San Francisco those are the dates we can fit the muster in to our schedule and like I said they're going to sell out so if you want to come register to extreme ownership dot-com we'll see you there and until the muster if you want to continue this conversation with any of us you can find us conversing on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on Nach face ebo ha Mike Ritland is at M Ritland and also as he said Mike Ritland calm of course echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing echo anything else no thank you actually I'm where your were at with the dog thing where it's like hey we can't get it done through me we got to be ready to get a dog you know my daughter's look to get her dog she didn't know she's fine it's a big deal but I don't know man you know talking to you is kind of like I don't know he's good very influential I mean I can tell you you can I mean it's like with anything in your life like you if you want to do it you'll do it yeah you got to decide I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right and you'll do it yeah you know but the only thing I would caution against is that realize that that that's carving out a portion of your day a portion of your life that something else isn't gonna be able to fill that yes that's a you know prioritization component but yeah but yeah it's so cool to me from thank you no thank you thanks for having me appreciate it you know Mike you got anything else that's it just you guys keep keep up the good fight I am honored to be on here and appreciative of of your guys as times been been great well Mike again thanks for coming off thanks for everything you've done while you were in since you've been out and everything that you're continuing to do today I know the dogs have saved a lot of lives you know and appreciate that of course thanks to all the service men and women out there and I'll go ahead and yes throw out a special thanks to all the dogs out there and their handlers everyone in the military standing face-to-face with evil thank you for standing the watch for police law enforcement again and their dogs firefighters paramedics all the other first responders thanks for protecting us while we sleep at night and to everyone thank you for listening and sharing and supporting this podcast but most of all thanks for getting up early everyday by seven- and attacking the world with the ferocity of an angry working dog that is out for blood and vengeance go and get after it and until next time this is Mike Ritland and Ecko and Jocko out

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 258,797

Keywords: k9, dog training, navy seal, seal teams, military, law enforcement, k9 unit, mike ritland, jocko willink, jocko podcast, leadership, discipline, freedom

Id: 1HhXDprzf5I

Length: 186min 31sec (11191 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 14 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/TheDudeV]

This guy is such a badass.

[u/Onuma1]

Excellent episode, so far. I'm about half way through, just past where Mike is getting into the temperament of dogs, etc.

[u/5thCir]

Also loving it.

[u/jukkisahonen]

I thought this was dope. I was listening to the podcast while training my Huskies for a sleddog race, and just had to get the book. I did, and now I've written a review of the "Team Dog": http://trailwinds.info/2018/05/book-review-team-dog-by-mike-ritland/