新加坡總統聊新加坡和中國 BBC主持人幽默中帶傲慢?! 中國女孩試問西方瘋狂另類民主生活?!【國際360】20240320@Global_Vision

we're actually for the next 45 minutes uh talking about a small nation which knows it's small but has proved that small can be very very effective and indeed beautiful I'm talking about Singapore which within really within one generation turned itself from as the cliche goes a third world nation state into very much a first world power in one generation Singapore's economic achievement is truly deserving of of the phrase economic Miracle you know if one thinks back to its Beginnings uh as an independent nation in the early 1960s and thinks to where it is today and how it got there it is the most extraordinary Story one that I think we can learn a lot from and to do some of the learning today please give uh a very warm welcome to the Deputy Prime Minister and the finance minister of Singapore tharman shanmugaratnam please give him a very warm welcome [Music] th is a is a pleasure to have you here and to be able to have a conversation with you the S Gallen theme as you know is all about size and scale and about this notion that sometimes all of us in different forms political economic management can learn a lot from small and obviously that Singapore is a small nation that has achieved extraordinary things so if one looks as an overview over the last 50 years if you could Define one thing that has been of Paramount importance behind Singapore's rise what would it be an attitude or mind uh we took advantage of disadvantage we converted permanent disadvantage into continuing advantage and that's uh very fundamental attitude of mind what disad disadvantage did we have we were not a nation that was meant to be it's a diverse group of people coming out of colonial migration patterns very different Origins very different belief systems and religions we were small no domestic Market decolonization happened happened suddenly and the British withdrew the military forces uh quickly and it impacted a very large part of the economy we were surrounded by much larger neighbors to our South about 50 times the size of Singapore and at the very outset objected to the very formation of Singapore and Malaysia we had every disadvantage you could think of for our nation and we did not expect to survive we were not expected to survive but that uh to lianu and the Pioneer team of leaders was converted to Advantage because it forces you to realize ize that all you have is yourself the world owes you nothing you're a piece of granite rock fortunately it's Granite by the way not even a waterfall or mountains that allow you to have a little bit of hydro electric power nothing just a group of people of different Origins who are willing to work hard and had to fend for themselves and make themselves relevant to the world and that mindset thinking of yourself as not having the advantage of size or history and that you've got to create it for yourself turns out to be a phenomenal Advantage so is an achievement of collective will I mean I think back to the timing you know the early 60s there were a lot of Asian Nations that were uh emerging at that time from colonialism you know one can think of and African and Caribbean of course but if we just think about Asia and your experience within Asia you know you had Nations which I think economists were predicting would be truly Powerhouse Nations back then you know Indonesia the pH Philippines Burma Myanmar all of these were tipped for the top and yet of course we saw all of them in their different ways really struggle in the in the post-independence period so was it just that Singapore had a maybe it was size that allowed you to find a collective will that those other larger Nations could not Forge I think it's a very difficult question but let me put it this way people think of Singapore as an economic success that's what sort of you know C us attention very easily per capita GDP and so on but what was really interesting and unique about Singapore was social strategy and most especially the fact that we took advantage of diversity different races different religions and melded a nation where people were proud of being who they were but were Singaporean first and foremost was it was it melded from top down and we can't get away from the the figure of knew himself you know it it wasn't there at the beginning he he imposed it natur the natural workings of society would not have led it to that happening right not just in Singapore but anywhere in the world the natural workings of society would have just as easily and more likely have led to mistrust discomfort bigotry and what we see in abundance in many countries in the world today the most intrusive social policy in Singapore has turned out to be the most important and it has a level of intrusiveness that doesn't come comfortably to the liberal mind what is it housing Estates 85% of Singapore lives in public housing it's not public housing that you are familiar with in the UK it's not like your Council housing because when it's 85% it's covers the lower income group the middle- income group the upper middle income group these are middle class housing Estates but every single block of flats block of apartments and every single Precinct requires an ethnic balance that's intrusive how because you're constraining it requires an ethnic balance in the sense the government decides how many of each ethnic grouping again so once once a particular ethnic group gets Beyond a certain qua in that block or that Precinct the resale Market has to adjust you can't just get more and more of the same people concentrating themselves in the same neighborhood and I'd say this is you know when it was first done I don't think we knew how important it was going to be I mean it sounds extraordinary authoritarian so it was and it was intrusive and it turns out to be our greatest strength because once people live together they're not just walking the corridors together every day taking the same elevator up and down the kids go to the same kindergarten the kids go to the same primary school because all over the world young kids go to school very near to where they live and they grow up together the the lessons coming out of Baltimore the lessons coming out of Francis large cities the lessons coming out of all all our societies show that neighborhoods matter Place matters where you live matters it matters much more than economists thought it it matters it matters tremendously in the daily influences that shape your life and The Traps you fall into but I dare say and this is where we get into a conversation about Singapore that isn't as you say just about extraordinary growth rates and economic success but is about the way in which the body politic Works to some of us sensitive flowers in the west the the authoritarianism that underpins that approach to managing a society feels uncomfortable to us yeah so that's that's a uh caricature I mean even The Economist which is not exactly a cheerleader for Singapore uh has uh would say as it just did on it in its um uh editorial form of orbitary when Mr leanu passed away uh that Singapore has free fair and regular elections we are a parliamentary democracy not in exactly the same mold as Britain or the United States certainly no we are parliamentary democracy and an elected government makes decisions which it feels are the best in the best interest of the country today and for the future and we we accountable for it yeah I mean it's a democracy of sorts you you don't have a genuinely free truly liberated pray not in the British sense no well not in any I mean but in the much as I'd like to take credit for the notion of a free pres not a British idea I I didn't mean it entirely as a compliment but I but as a as a description uh you but as a description you are missing page three of of the Sun newspaper and that's no great loss I agree but but but actually there is a serious point when when journals that are respected and and have a role to play like you know the Far East Economic Review for years and years are hounded by no the rules are very clear and simple there Singapore is an extremely open Society by virtue of the number of foreign Publications that are circulated in know well over 5,000 the fact that singaporeans are probably more than any other Society Broadband penetrated the fact that they're English educated and have have access to a whole world of information on the Internet is an extremely open Society there's no doubt about it we are unconventional in requiring in our laws that we have the right of reply when foreign Publications publish something that we feel is false or misleading we just have the right of reply and when Publications as you know very well uh refuse to publish a reply we impose restrictions on them that affect the advertising revenues unconventional you might not agree with it but the larger point is this I think we all need some humility we all need some humility on the ways that best Advance a liberal order to take Lord Griffith's point this morning a liberal order economically socially and politically we all need some Liberty some some humility as to how we achieve that not just for today but for tomorrow how do you suain it how do you best sustain it the most thoughtful observers in the west of the view that you need some buffers you need some margins of safety and you need some compromisers on some Liberties in order to achieve others and the a free Med the freest possible media is not the only Liberty we aspire to I I do think it's a good idea by the way it appeals to my ideals but it's not the only Liberty you aspire to you do aspire to a liberty of being able to walk the streets freely particularly you're a woman or a child at any time of the night you aspire to the liberty of living in a city that's not defined by its most disorderly elements you aspire to the liberty of having an opportunity for an education and a job regardless of your race or your social background and you aspire to Liberty or practicing your own religion without fear of bigotry or discrimination the are very important Liberties in many societies and they're lacking in many societies well I I I think we're getting into a very interesting area and Singapore to me is the sort of um body politic which we in the west struggle to Define in a way because maybe we have a slightly sort of simplistic binary approach to this we either want you know we look at free societies like I suppose mine or Western European or the US models we would say free societies and then we would look at a a China for example and we'd say a not free Society you know they they have capitalism of of A Sort but they certainly don't have democracy and we'd say not free and dysfunctional politically you sit in neither Camp uncomfortably as far as we're concerned we can't really pigeon hole you but here's a thought for you maybe your system is coming to A A Crossroads or a turning point because the digital age is changing things somewhat you know the information flows and the top- down approach that your Society has taken perhaps don't fit so easily into a digital age and I just wonder you know when there are theories about the relationship between uh political economy and Innovation and long-term sustainable economic Success Through Innovation whether Singapore is going to have to change and whether the authoritarian model if you don't mind me using that word is going to have to be reviewed and fundamentally adapted what do you think so uh leanu would never have expected that Singapore would remain what it is today forever uh I don't expect and I don't think any of my colleagues in government expect it's going to remain this way forever it has to evolve we start with the cards we are dealt with we start with history shapes choices and the history I described briefly ear earlier on did shape choices it shaped social social choices it shape political choices but we must never be trapped by our history we have to keep evolving and it is it is a worthy ideal to Aspire for a system where individuals are well educated are good judges fors of the information they read on the Internet or on the media are able to make their own minds up I think that's a very that's a worldly idea to to to Aspire towards but how do we do it in a way that's self- sustaining and to to think that you simply if all forces are let loose whether it's the media or anything else that you're able to achieve the Liberties that matter most to people safety freedom of of of religious belief the freedom to Aspire in life and Achieve what you want through hard work those are very important Liberties but simplistically put is there going to be room for more individualism in Singapore yes in the future so if you look at Singapore today compared to not even 50 years ago 10 years ago it's a vastly different place it's a vastly different place singaporeans are educated Discerning skeptical and critical people they know what's what there's no doubt about it and Singapore continues to evolve it's a function of course of the fact that we've had some success in education it's a function of the fact that as you say it's a digital world it's an open world so there's no doubt about it but let's not think that we are all moving moving teleologically towards that destination that you now see in the United States or UK we'll all have to evolve and we all need some humility as to how we progress democracy but will Singapore always be the kind of society where the government says ultimately you can't live there because the quota for your particular ethnic grouping has already been reached you've got to go and live there is it going to be that kind of society forever that's uh imponderable I think it'll be naive to think that uh you can lift it and people will be will automatically gravitate towards diverse uh neighborhoods and you won't in fact get the reverse because if you look at the most advanced democracies that's exactly what's happened you have you have in the United States you have in France you have in Germany you have even in the United Kingdom in the United Kingdom half the Muslim population lives in your bottom 10% of neighborhoods did it happen because of some random chance or does it happen because that's the natural workings of society we have to address these facts honestly and realize that look human beings aren't perfect everyone has biases discomforts a sense of liking or distrust for each other and there is a role of government and elected representatives to unify people and it doesn't happen through speeches it means you need mechanisms you need instruments they mustn't be too constraining on an individual choice but you do need to constrain something and do you end up a better Society or don't you that's the test not whether the government is right do you end up a society that people feel more comfortable in that's the real test I'm I'm it's easy to talk about Singapore but quite frankly this is a challenge we all face oh absolutely I mean listen I I know full well that the sorts of issues that come out of of making uh an ethnically diverse Nation work are extremely important to a whole bunch of Nations far beyond Singapore not at least my own but but it seems to me you are now facing some of the problems that uh other nations have have faced for quite a long time let's talk a couple of specifics one immigration big issue in Singapore today in fact one could argue it's one of those issues which is is prompting a new kind of very active passionate debate where opposition is actually you know coming out onto the streets using the internet in ways that we haven't seen before because your government looks at the demographics of Singapore looks at the need to keep growth going and thinks you know our own people aren't having many babies we are going to have to manage continued immigration into the country to the tune of I think by 2030 the plan was to turn a population of what 5.3 million into 6.9 million yeah not a plan but there were it wasn't a plan it was moted anyway and it drew an awful lot of opposition from native singaporeans uh so what are you going to do you you know you've got you've got this problem you need the numbers but immigration like in so many nations around the world is now a hot and difficult political issue what are you going to do so it's a it's a challenge that uh many countries face and small countries face it more than others Switzerland faces it in a very um uh pointed way another small country that um uh not only needs people for the sake of numbers but its companies need talent and specialized skills to compete internationally but we are a society we are not just uh s Gallen uh or stard or San Diego we are a country we are a nation and that means it has to be a nation that people feel is their own it's got to have social mores and uh a tone that people feel is Singaporean but with an openness that allows us to take advantage of the skills and expertise and track records in networks or foreign foreign foreign individuals so staying open but remaining Singaporean at the core is what we have to achieve a matter of balance what are you actually are you going to bring in this new uh what 30% of your population by 2030 or not so we we already at onethird of our Workforce that is foreign and we hope to keep it there as long as we can without letting it rise indefinitely and that's uh something we Implement through Labor Market rules we've got levies we've got quar and so on uh but you you can't have a free for all you can if you are one city in a larger country but we are a country by ourselves and you need a balance and integrating foreigners in our society is just as important as thinking about the numbers just as important as thinking about the qu quantity uh you've got to integrate people as well as you can and singaporeans have to feel that yes this is my country but I'm proud to be working in a worldclass team now another challenge you face uh is on the size of government you know you've talked already with me about the uh Investments made in housing for example uh and that's going to increase I know it's a huge part of the public budget education you know we all I mean British politicians dur in the election they say we're failing in education look at Singapore and they site your amazing exam record and your numbers of skilled graduates and the way in which you skill up your people so you invest huge amounts in education if you look at the figures you know your your government is actually an advoc of massive State spending I mean that's the way you run your country and because you've got such a successful economy you've managed to do it without you with budget surpluses until last year where you just fell into into a deficit and I don't know whether you are worried that looking forward particularly if you mix demographics with the size of your government and the ambition of your government you are going to run into real problems so uh I think we're a very interesting case of a country that has low government spending by the way by more standards as a percentage of GDP low taxes uh as long as your GDP keeps climbing uh yes uh but but our starting point is not a bad one we've got relatively low government spending and revenues but we are able to achieve the social outcomes that countries with much larger spending do and how do we do it I think one of the very important lessons of the last 50 years is that traditional concepts of welfare and social expend and government intervention have led to a weakening of private initiative and personal responsibility not because that was the intent it never was the intent it was never the Social Democratic intent to weaken private initiative and family responsibility I mean look at the Scandinavian countries they're one of the they used to be amongst the most hardworking countries in the world the swedes were incredibly hardworking industrious people you're using class tense are you swed become lazy or what present active tense uh I I I and and I don't I you know they're they're they're a good Society in many ways so I didn't mean to well swedes will get the chance to comment on this Society in many ways they and they're willing to pay high taxes to keep their system going but the point is there are ways in which an active government can intervene to support social Mobility to develop opportunities and to to take care of the old which doesn't undermine personal and family responsibility and that's the compact that we're trying to achieve it's almost a paradox you mean you're a bit more a bit more ruthless is that what you're saying no we are we are we are achieving a paradox of active government support for personal responsibility rather than active government support to take over personal responsibility or Community responsibility do you concept of a safety net so we we believe in a concept of support for you taking up opportunities so we don't have un I believe in the sometimes Simplicity of yes or no answers what about this idea of a safety net do you believe does Singapore believe in the notion of a safety net for those who fall between the cracks of a successful econ I believe in the notion of a trampoline [Applause] yeah so people are just bouncing up and down in Singapore no it's a it's a it's a I mean it boils down to what policies you're talking about if you provide help for someone who's willing to study in education to study hard if you provide help for someone who's willing to take up a job and work at it and make life not so easy if you stay out of work if you provide help for someone who wants to own a home and we're very generous in our grants of home ownership which is why we have 90% home ownership and amongst the lowincome population more than 80% own their homes it transforms culture it's not just about transactions it's not about the size of Grant it's about keeping alive a culture where I feel proud that I own my home and I earn my own Success Through my job I feel proud that I'm raising my family keeping culture going is what keeps a society vibrant yeah actually sorry to stop you for a sec th but I completely forgot to publicize this very important vote we're having uh which you guys have all taken up with without me even prompting you so just just by way of getting those who haven't voted to vote you know we have got this question which we're going to review at the end but we can see where it's going already after 50 years of growth and prosperity Singapore will face the same structural challenges as the rest of the developed World well uh 71% of you disagree presumably you believe uh as the Americans would say in Singaporean exceptionalism um which is an interesting idea do you believe in Singapore no I don't I don't at all very little of what Singapore does is invented in Singapore very little uh our whole to use the jargon sop you know standard operating procedure whether it's in cabinet or statutary board or a small public agency is look at the rest of the world try to get some idea some technique some method that has worked well and see how we can do it in Singapore if possible better try to avoid the mistakes that have happened so that's an advantage of smallness by the way we never thought that we had it all in our minds we never we never think today that we've got it we've got it all worked out and this is a successful model and that's it we're never in a golden mean but actually getting back to smallness what you described and is fascinating the the the the interventionism of the Singaporean government in the in the housing uh system for example or indeed in the education system I mean it's it's been so successful but it is so um micromanaged I mean that that couldn't happen in a large country could it well I think the the thought experiment that's more uh useful is what has happened in a large country and how could you have avoided it how could you have avoided the what's happening in the how do you pronounce the French term Bros BR uh how could you happen what I described about your minority populations in Britain how how could you have avoided Baltimore how could you have avoided Ferguson it's not rocket science there many thoughtful observers who point to what was happening decade after decade and it's not about left or right by the way it's not about Democrat against Republican or labor against conservative it's partly about centralization and Authority in the United States whether we're talking about policing or whether we're talking about education or housing in the end Americans want their decisions to be taken at a much more local level by and large you know there's a fear of big government and washing wash intruding in people's lives and many decisions are taken not just at the state level but at the municipal level including things like policing whereas in Singapore you guys are quite straightforward you've got a an extraordinarily centralized nation state city nation state and it is all run from one place the center yeah it is a city of course and if you want to compare it you can compare it to other American cities s Galan by the way is larger than Singapore uh and you have to ask what is the responsibility of elected representatives if we believe in Social inclusion if we believe in opportunities for all we have to accept it doesn't happen automatically because of the Invisible Hand of the market or the Invisible Hand of society it happens because you've got policies that seek to Foster and encourage it and what happened in the examples I've just cited is that you've got policies that went in the other direction and they trap people they trap people where they started if you're black if you're lwi income you end up where you started I may be oversimplifying but that's The Tragic Truth and that comes out of 50 years of evidence and you and we try to elate you are the world's perhaps greatest example of a meritocracy no I'd never put it that way no all right well I'll put it I'll put it that way for you then you are I would say I would I would simply say we've taken lessons from abroad we've tried to do what makes sense in our circumstance and we've got to keep evolving our methods right we've got to keep evolving our methods I've got to shut up and let the audience ask proper questions in a moment but one more from me you've got a problem you you made I mean Singapore made its great strides in the 60s 70s 80s when the rest of Asia was as we touched on earlier you know uh many of its countries were under terrible misrule misgovernment their economies were shot to pieces and and you guys because you were extraordinarily efficiently governed could make great competitive strides it's a bit different now I mean Asia's full of of tear away growth economies you know obviously there China but there are many others too uh suddenly the the idea of Singapore being the the great tear away success of Asia in relation to all the others isn't so true and maybe foreign investment for example might begin to think you know what Singapore's gone as far as it can go there are other places we could put our money and see it see it uh bear fruit better than Singapore in the future are you worried about that well Singapore wouldn't be where it is today if it didn't have to compete very hard against formidable competitors they weren't always in Asia they weren't always in the immediate neighborhood but it's always been about competition and that's how we've moved up from one level from you know highly labor intensive low skill low wage uh production to what is now basically High skill High wage Enterprise and it's a constant race but don't forget the intangibles don't forget the intangibles there's some advantage in being constant in keeping to your promise sticking to the contract and building confidence amongst every investor that in 20 years time and 30 years time the rules are not going to change and being constant does that mean that lean's family will always be in charge no I I think that that'll be most uh uh uh unusual it's a meritocracy it'll be most unusual if that was the case certainly it's not the way in which if I can I can't speak on behalf of them but it's not the way most singap points would expect it to be and certainly you really wouldn't want it to be a situation like um I mean if you look at I thought about say the United States it's either the bushes or the Clinton so let let me let me uh I mean to be Frank if you look at um parliamentarians below the age of 30 in India every single one of them is a member of a political Dynasty every single one of them so let's we believe in meritocracy it's hard work it's sometimes imperfect they always advantage in family connections and wealth but we got to keep working against that all right well thank you so much th I'm now going to get some sensible questions from the floor I'll take two at a time you sir if we can get well where are the microphones have we got microphones uh yeah so you sir and and then you sir and then we'll C over this side give us your name and your question quick as you can because we haven't got much time sure uh I'm Omar from Mexico um Mr charman mentioned that they want control migration uh under a certain percentage uh competitiveness in uh Singapore is quite good in terms of economy and a lot of companies are moving their headquarters to Singapore in order because of the advantages it represents to the companies uh however a lot many of those companies are forigner and that means uh it will go uh over for C percentage of the migration if that affects the competitiveness of Singapore what add what would you address in order to all right yeah good question next one we'll take two at a time so you go sir uh Oto Lampa German ambassador um I was um very impressed by um your uh explanation of the um ethnic and um the source of uh political and social stability residing in the fact that you have balanced quarters uh now what I think one should factor in from the point of view of my country is um the issue of migration and not only the current situation of Northern Africans crossing the Mediterranean and um asking for Asylum but I remember please correct me if I'm wrong that um in Singapore if you were a Filipino housemate and you got pregnant you were sent back home so there is a sort of inherent permanent uh limit to uh extension of ethnic diversity and thus maybe part of the explanation why you have such peace and quiet in your uh quarters thank you okay right so two questions concerning migration first one um given your determination to control immigration could that run into a clash with your desire to see foreign companies headquarter in Singapore to develop their operations in Singapore because one might run against the other well fundamentally what we aim to achieve is to provide a strong incentive for companies to upgrade their operations to depend Less on Manpower period because a large part of the foreign Workforce in Singapore is unskilled to lower lower to Mid skilled foreigners it's not about you know entrepreneurs or scientists or Engineers large part of it is labor and we are we are behind Switzerland we are behind the advanced segments of Germany we are behind the advanced segments of the United States and Japan in almost every industry with regard to our potential to reduce Manpower and to rely more on technology and machines we still have some way to go to become really at the front line of productivity and technology and that's our ambition that's the first strategy it's about upgrading industry so as to raise productivity but the second strategy that's very important is that when it comes to any form of talent and we Define it in different ways it's about track records education of course Market salary is a very good you know indicator of talent we are an open Society but we encourage every company Singaporean or foreign owned to think hard about building a Singaporean core in your Enterprise we encourage that very strongly you can't leave it entirely to the market but neither can you intrude too much in Enterprise decisions because then you risk losing competitiveness so far I think we've managed this journey we'll have to keep revisiting our methods and our you know our rules every few years or so but so far we are managing the journey and and the ambassador's point that you you actually to some eyes take very Draconian steps or have in the past so we we've throwing out women who get pregnant foreign foreign labor is here on a contract under some it's here in Singapore in a contract under conditions that they have to meet we are strict on on applying the rules but the rules are known well in advance the fundamental challenge Singapore faces uh is not however about um uh foreigners and we achieved we achieve Harmony because we sort of kick foreigners out when they get pregnant that's a very very small incidence of people extremely small the fundamental challenge is that we are ourselves a diverse societ Society with quite different belief systems and we think we can achieve a harmonious Society through hard work constant consultation and dialogue and Trust that's our fundamental challenge we are ourselves a diverse Society right I'm I love Leaders of Tomorrow so Leaders of Tomorrow put your hands oh there's one there waving enthusiastically and then you sir twisting your arm around invitingly over there you can have a go too we we're a bit short of time so does everybody agree we can afford 5 minutes extra before we take lunch cu the questions are important do we all agree yeah everybody's nodding good go on Sir hello my name is Girish and I'm from India um well since we're talking a lot about diversity in Singapore I was just thinking that India had largely a very similar time span and if you look at the diversity it had a very similar Endowment in terms of diversity in belief systems diversity in populations and a s very well in some way similar Colonial past so given the same India however has chos to take a different route and a different approach to things and some might say that there is a lot that India could perhaps learn from Singapore a major difference being in the size and therefore perhaps in the agility and the ability to enforce that Singapore has so would you have something uh some things that India could learn perhaps or countries like India could learn from Singapore well good I'm going to stop you good question I mean in a nutshell you're a very small nation India is a bloody huge Nation but are there some universalities here that could apply right across right got to answer that just said one by itself yeah go on well maybe a fairer comparison is to look at India compared to other large complex societies and China is a good example India has the great advantage of a democracy which ultimately I think is uh the most sustainable political system that uh we know of but it doesn't have the advantage of accountability uh of elected representatives China in a curious way despite not having a uh democracy in the political sense has a very high sense of accountability on the part of his leaders that isn't so for all authoritarian regimes but it is so for China and they have created a culture of accountability I think India can create culture I'm slightly baffled I I think India can you can come back to that if you want to we don't have time I think I think India can create that culture there's no reason democracy should not have a culture of accountability with it it just means that middle class voters especially have to hold people accountable for what they promised and to see if they deliver and it can be done all right well we're going to talk more about China and accountability over coffee but we can't do it now uh yes sir thank you Mr Prime Minister I'm David I'm David timam from Uganda hi um that Singapore today consider itself a developed country in the har Truman sense of development and development and if so what what it current geopolitical interest Visa dealing with the rest of the global South including Africa and Uganda well be you know the the word developed doesn't figure very much in our parant and our in our domestic debates or anything like that because as far as we are concerned we just have to keep improving we haven't arrived as I mentioned just now I spoke about productivity and Technology I can talk about other things I think the way in which European societies have developed respect for blue collar workers and accorded them a place in the workplace in governance and in society uh that exceeds most Asian countries it's something that we still have to Aspire towards there are many things that have been achieved in the advanced countries that we still Aspire towards so I don't I don't know what the definition of developed is it's typically a some per capita income criteria in which case Singapore s of and I think the question I also want to know whether Singapore now sees it sees a priority in developing relationships with um you know the the emerging and the poorer countries of the world particularly in Africa uh we we focus most of our foreign assistance and relations on developing countries in Latin America in Africa and especially in Asia and to go back to the question that was asked earlier uh I think we have to be quite honest about the fact that there are going to be limits to which we can solve the immigration problem uh in Europe or anywhere else in the world of the same Nature by simply addressing it when they finally come we've got to help countries manage their problems where they are and we have to take very seriously the predicament and complexity of Africa and do our utmost through multilateral institutions and bilaterally to help them uplift themselves solve problems at their Source not when they finally come as I'm just literally two days ago back from Zimbabwe I would agree with that entirely now we've got to want two more questions but I want both from women because I've failed to call upon women so far right we've got two women neatly lined up right next to each other so can two short piy questions from two females to finish um hello um my name is Ja H one from China um I've never been to Singapore before I hope one day I will so I I can just ask her naive question you know from a view of the outsid or I hope it's not like entirely irrelevant um I think it's an exhausted uh exalted idea to encourage people to work harder and to you know have a decent life um but you mentioned something like that you would actually make life harder for people who are not willing to work in Singapore and this actually reminds reminds me of something I saw uh earlier this year when I was in the US I was actually touched by um some of the freedom people some of the people enjoy there uh they could actually um you know just have some unconventional and even chaotic years of their life they could be like anti-establishment they you know could just be different but uh you know if you I mean if your Society uh works this way won't you you know deprive the freedom of people who just want to be wild and anti for uh for like at least for a period of time okay that's a totally great question but let's hear the other one as well so I can answer it immedi no don't I want to save save for the answer I don't want to waste it now ma'am what's your question hello I'm hm G I'm from Armenia and uh how did the development start in Singapore is it thanks to the political will or It Started From The Bottom civil or economic level and what is the level of democracy um between the political right and economic rights right okay well let's do that that one first and then we'll get to the one that that we all enjoyed I mean yeah so there they're not unrelated no they're not unrelated but give me your answer to the second lady first yeah so uh in understanding the evolution of democracy in Singapore you can't avoid looking at history how we started and the circumstances that we were we were we were given as a country that wasn't meant to be uh democracy has evolved evolved it has strengthened uh and I believe it has to strengthen further but let's not think uh that the way to strengthen it further is to Simply leave everything without restraint it hasn't worked in the most advanced democracies and it's not going to work especially in a diverse Asian Society but 80 of your 87 parliamentary seats are taken up by the ruling party Le party I mean that's not healthy is it really yeah it isn't um if you look at Alberta since 1971 you've had the same part in power and today it controls 70 out of what 85 or something like that yeah so you know Canada is a thriving liberal democracy but yours is a one don't don't hit too hard a government that works very hard to do what is in the interest of the people and has a good track record okay right don't hit it too hard okay and then um second second question is in Singapore there isn't room to to to to to enjoy a few years of quote unquote wildness so you can't so unfortunately there where's the creativity where's the chance to kick back think and smoke something interesting so there are two there there are two parts to that question first uh you're free to be as wild and wanting and uh take time off and uh do what you'd like with your life but you don't have to get State assistance for doing so that's the point the point is how do you with a limited budget whilst keeping the tax revenues low keeping spending low how do you apply it most effectively and I believe the best way to apply it is to reward personal responsibility I've got nothing against take people taking time off in fact it's not a bad way to live your life to take some time off from time to time you re-energize yourself you think of new ideas you might switch jobs but the unfortunate fact of the last 50 years is that governments that gave money without conditions in other words as long as you're unemployed you get it and you get it for an extended period did not anticipate how it would change social culture unfortunately social culture changes and it changes in response to incentives and we don't want that to happen in Singapore the most serious point though is that it is true that developing Singapore into a more Innovative society which is what its future has to be does require a certain amount of free play of ideas at the level of the individual and groups of individual and we have to allow for that and I don't think allow for that means we just mimic what the bay area in the United States is we are a different Society but we've got to evolve we've got to give more free play to the individual and to individual choices they may be right or wrong choices but people will learn with time well if I may say so that is a very interesting answer and I just think your entire presentation has been fantastic so we I apologies for me CU I've made you all late for lunch it is is now lunch time but ladies and gentlemen before we go to lunch just please give the warmest of warm hands to Fan Shan thank you so much thank you thank you thank you thank you very [Music] much

Channel: 全球大視野

Views: 571,176

Keywords: 中天新聞, 國際新聞, Cti Talk, 全球大視野, 國際直球對決, 前進戰略高地, 鄭妹看世界, 名家說, 全球熱話題, 全球線上, GLOBAL, 中國大陸, 林嘉源, 鄭亦真, 雷倩, 介文汲, 郭正亮, Taiwan, China, Chinese, 台湾, 中国, 美国, USA

Id: K-JUYha6sLQ

Length: 46min 55sec (2815 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 20 2024