WEDNESDAY, HE WILL BE USING THAT TIME TO CAMPAIGN IN THE BATTLEGROUND STATES OF WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN. ALEX? >> OKAY, DASHA BURNS. THANK YOU FOR THAT. HE IS THE FORMER ASSISTANT DEPUTY GENERAL. HOST OF THE PODCAST TALKING FITS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. ALSO, OUR GOOD FRIEND TIMOTHY HAVEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR AND -- FOR THE JANUARY 6th SELECT COMMITTEE. WELCOME TO YOU, TIM. OKAY. SET THE SCENE FOR US. WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE IN THE COURTROOM? ONE, WHAT HAS IT BEEN ABLE FOR YOU TO SEE FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT THAT WE HAVE NOT? >> THE JURY, HOW ATTENTIVE THEY ARE. IF THEY ARE MORE ATTENTIVE FOR ONE SIDE THAN THE OTHER. THE DEFENDANT FOR ANOTHER WHO SOMETIMES HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT SLEEPY, AND EVEN NODDED OFF, AND THEN A LITTLE BIT OF HUBBUB , IS WHAT SEEMS TO BE DRAMATIC, MOMENTS HAVE OCCURRED. AND SOMEWHAT TRAUMATIC MOMENTS -- HAVE OCCURRED. >> I'M CURIOUS ABOUT PECKER IN PARTICULAR. HE CALLED HIM AN AFFABLE SCOUNDREL. WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CASE? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE JURY TOOK AWAY FROM THIS? >> ON THE ONE HAND, HE IS A SLEAZE MERCHANT, BUT HE WAS TOTALLY UNABASHED AS IT. I THINK HE CAME ACROSS AS VERY CREDIBLE. THERE WERE TWO VERY IMPORTANT PARTS OF HIS TESTIMONY. MOST IMPORTANTLY, HE SETS THE TRACKS THAT GO FROM GINO THE DOORMAN ALL THE WAY TO THE PRECIPICE OF STORMY DANIELS, WHICH IS WHERE WE ARE STARTING NOW. AND WHAT HE MAKES REALLY CLEAR. IT IS ALL ABOUT BULLYING TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN AND STATING OFF THESE CRISES. CHART NEVER MENTIONED MILIANIA. HE PROSPECTIVELY COOPERATES WHAT MICHAEL COHEN IS IN FOR. THEY ARE CALLING HIM JUST COHEN, NOT EVEN MR. COHEN. HE COOPERATES MUCH OF WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY. HIS TESTIMONY WILL BE IN THE BROAD MIDDLE. BY DAVID PECKER, BY THE PAPER, AND IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE NOT RELYING ON THEM. ALSO MAKING IT CLEAR THIS IS ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN, NOTHING ELSE. >> SO TIM, PECKER AGREED THE STORY ABOUT ASTAR, AND IT WAS GOLD. IT COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO THE BANK. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANT OF THIS ? AND WHAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE SACRIFICE THAT PECKER WAS MAKING TO HELP TRUMP? >> HE WAS MAKING A BIG FINANCIAL SACRIFICE, ALEX. IT CERTAINLY WOULD BE BETTER IF IT HAS A SCREAMING HEADLINE ABOUT THE EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR. AND RATHER THAN CRIMPED THAT STORY. HE AGREES NOT TO AND DIRECTLY BENEFITING THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT, THAT IS THE UNDERLYING CRIME. AND THE REASON FOR THE FALSIFICATION OF THE RECORDS. THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO APPROVE THAT THESE RECORDS WERE FALSIFIED FOR THE UNDERLYING PURPOSE FOR PROTECTING THE CAMPAIGN. THEY WERE EFFECTIVELY CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS. AND INVOICES FOR LEGAL SERVICES. SO WHILE THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS NOT BEING CHARGED FOR THE AFFAIR, HE IS BEING CHARGED FOR SOMETHING THAT BENEFITS HIS CAMPAIGN AND ESSENTIALLY HIDING THAT. THAT IS WHY THE TESTIMONY IS SO -- >> JANUARY 6th, DESCRIBING WALKING INTO FINE JAMES COMEY, SEAN SPICER, AND MICHAEL POMPEO . HE SAYS TRUMP IS TRACKING SOME KIND OF BAD JOKE. ASKING ABOUT PECKER. HOW IS OUR GIRL DOING. BRIEFING TRUMP ON SALACIOUS DETAILS. SO WHAT COMES TO MIND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS SCENARIO? THE UNDERLYING RHETORIC. MY UNDERSTANDING, THE DEFENDANT IS DENYING ALLEGED AFFAIRS. HE ASKED ABOUT MY GIRL KAREN. IT IS OFTEN ABOUT CREDIBILITY, AND IF A JURY STARTS TO DISBELIEVE WHAT THE WITNESSES EITHER DIRECTLY, OR TO COUNSEL. THAT AFFECTS THE ENTIRE PROCEEDING, RIGHT? THE CORE ASSESSMENTS OF CREDIBILITY. HE WAS TRYING TO ESSENTIALLY PREVENT THESE FALSE ALLEGATIONS. THE STORY ABOUT, HOW IS OUR GIRL, MY GIRL KAREN DOING. THAT IS A PERVASIVE EFFECT. >> INTERESTING. SO TRANSFORMER ASSISTANT, RHONA GRAFF, WHO SAYS FIRST OF ALL HER ATTORNEYS ARE BEING PAID. SHE HAS MULTIPLE PHONE NUMBERS. STORMY DANIELS SITTING OUT IN THE WAITING ROOM AT SOME POINT. ALSO A SENSE OF WHAT PROSECUTORS WANTED TO GET FROM HER. SHE WAS ONLY ON THE STAND FOR FOR A WHILE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING. THEY GOT FROM HER NEXT TO NOTHING. ALL THEY REALLY DID WAS GO THROUGH HOOPS SO THEY CAN NOW USE THE CONTEXT AND THE CALENDAR. SHE WAS VERY FRIENDLY. THE DEFENSE WALKED HER THROUGH A LITTLE RECITATION OF WHAT A NICE BOSS HE WAS. AND THIS IS WHAT WILL SAW IN THE COURTROOM. AS SHE LEFT THE STAND, TRUMP STOOD UP, WHO AS I SAID, WAS SLEEPING, STOOD UP AND WENT TO EMBRACE HER. EXTREMELY IMPROPER IN FRONT OF THE JURY. THE GUARDS PUSHED HIM BACK. SHE HAD A BROAD SMILE AND SHE WAS USHERED OUT. IT WAS PLAIN THAT SHE IS SO FRIENDLY THAT THE PROSECUTOR SAID, WE BETTER STAY AWAY FROM THIS. JUST TO A QUICK POINT TO WHAT TIM HAD TO SAY, CREDIBILITY MATTERS. ANOTHER WHITE-COLLAR DEFENSE LAWYER WITH SAY, LOOK, THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD PLAY THIS. SAY YOU ARE SLEAZY GUY AND NOT A CRIMINAL. YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH TRUMP. HE IS INSISTING ON THE TRUTH OF I NEVER SLEPT WITH STORMY, I NEVER SLEPT WITH McDOUGAL. THE WHOLE CREDIBILITY, AND WHICH I THINK IS THE CASE, IF HE DOESN'T TESTIFY, IT GOES TO THE JU. DO WE BELIEVE TRUMP, OR EVERYONE ELSE? THAT IS TOO BIG TO WAIT FOR HIM TO TRY TO CARRY. >> YES. AND PECKER ALSO TESTIFIED THAT HE SPOKE TO HICKS, AS WELL AS SANDERS. HE WAS EXPLAINING TO THEM WHY HE TRIED TO -- WHAT CONCERNS DOES THIS RAISE FOR YOU? AND IF THEY ARE SOMEWHAT INVOLVED. >> IT CONNECTS THE PAYMENTS TO SOME KIND OF BENEFIT FOR THE PRESIDENT. THESE ARE NOT COMPLETELY UNRELATED PERSONAL ISSUES. THEY HAD A VERY DIRECT AND PRACTICAL IMPACT ON HIS POLITICAL STATUS AS A CANDIDATE, AND THEN EVEN AFTER THE ELECTION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE STRIKING HERE, HOW MANY PEOPLE CLOSE TO THE DEFENDANT, THE FORMER PRESIDENT WILL TESTIFY. PART OF THE SUCCESS CANDID OF THE HEARINGS AND OUR PROCESS, HOW MANY OF OUR WITNESSES WERE LONGTIME REPUBLICANS, OFFICIALS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, PEOPLE CLOSE TO HIM INCLUDING HIS FAMILY. THEY GAVE THEM MORE CREDIBILITY. THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE LEAPING FORWARD WITH SOME BIAS, THE DEFENDANT. WHEN YOU CALL PEOPLE LIKE HOPE HICKS, OR RHONA GRAFF, IT IS HARD TO ARGUE THAT THEY HAVE A BIAS TO LIE OR DISPARAGE THE FORMER PRESIDENT. THAT GIVES THEM MORE CREDIBILITY.
