"Zero Doubt" Non-Human Intelligence on Earth - Col. Karl Nell & Alex Klokus | SALT iConnections NY

[Music] hello everyone thank you for coming this evening I'm glad that we are the final talk of this year's salt event and I'm very excited to discuss what I consider to be one of the most consequential questions of our lifetime which is are we alone in the universe and I'm very lucky to have Carl Nell here joining me for this conversation Carl thank you so much for coming and Anthony and AJ over at Salt thank you so much for for hosting this uh so Carl maybe to begin can you share a little bit about your background who you are and perhaps why people should care what you say sure well well thanks Alex it's a pleasure and honor to be here and it's a fantastic event and uh I I'm glad to see uh a large bunch of folks that stuck it out to the end for this uh for this talk uh so I was fortunate I had a a four-year RTC scholarship to Penn I graduated uh with a degree in electrical engineering the Army uh sent me overseas to do uh signal core engineering projects so I did a lot of strategic comp projects in Europe I ended up uh working in Army space command I commanded a satellite ground station War Trace to the Joint Chiefs I spent some time at uh right p an Air Force Base the Army ultimately sent me to get a master's in mechanical engineering a master's in strategic studies graduate work in computer science I was on track to stay in uh but I decided that I wanted to pursue more of a technical career uh so I got out and ended up working at Bell Labs which was a fantastic Place unfortunately I was there during the tresure that folks may be familiar with where the company got split up I left Bell labs and ended up working in lock missiles in space I worked at North R Grumman I've ran uh strategic uh technology programs in the defense industry work for a lot of the three-letter agencies ultimately was a deputy chief of staff or Deputy uh CTO for uh 2 billion doll company I was a vice president general manager of a uh Northern Virginia based R&D firm uh I stayed in the military uh uh in the Reserve I commanded at every grade level through Brigade I was fortunate to standup the Army's newest expeditionary of my Brigade I was the Deputy Chief of Staff for combatant command uh ultimately this experience sort of combined to give me the opportunity to come in and advise uh Army uh Futures command the largest reorganization in the Army Reserve uh since uh since really 1973 on how the Army could be more effective and my last assignment was involved with the UAP task force which maybe is the most aopo uh for this discussion and so Carl here's here's the million-dollar question do you believe that a higher form of non-human intelligence has visited this planet right so non-human intelligence exists non-human intelligence has been interacting with Humanity this interaction is not new and it's been ongoing and there are unelected people in the government that are aware of that and and so Carl that is quite a bold statement um I'm wondering and I'm curious how confident are you that that is true there's zero doubt and and Carl what evidence have you seen what was the moment where you developed this level of conviction because what you're saying is extremely consequential and very important and I know that a lot of people here even perhaps may not believe that statement right right well probably a better way to ask that is how can the folks in the audience come to the you know a uh common understanding of what this phenomenon is and so there's sort of two tracks here one is from first principles and another is actually from the data so so let's take a look at the data so we can look at some folks that have uh very high level uh access to information like Paul helier who was the defense chief for Canada has come out and said said the same thing we can look at ham Eed uh the head of Israel's or former head of Israel's space force has said the same thing Chris melon assistant Deputy assistant secretary for Intel sapco has essentially said the same thing Lou alzando has said the same thing David grush has said the same thing David grush cleared for presidentially level material so you're looking at people that are in a position to know this and they're telling you the same thing you could take a look at the gang of eight in the Senate and in Congress so there's two members of the gang of eight marubio and Senator truck Schumer that signed up to the UAP disclosure Amendment last year that basically said they're not being told the truth and we need to push forward on that so that's sort of an overview of some of the the data from a first principal standpoint what's so unusual about this um realization there's billions of star in the galaxy life here evolved in 500 million years which is basically a blink of an eye we' found planets around every Star that we've looked at it's likely that the universe is full of life if you look at the seti program in particular the seti program has all the same assumptions that you would uh accept and probably make with respect to this topic except that they believe that non-human intelligence is transmitting signals here but at the same time like we're not transmitting signals signal city is doesn't transmit signals and the only signals that are actually broadcast of high enough power into space for somebody to pick up come from broadcast television and ballistic missile early Warning Systems which you could argue our technolog is moving away from we're going to satellite we're going to fiber broadcast TV is a thing of the past and if you get to some state where Society is stable maybe we don't need ballistic missile warning system so so the other guy is probably not going to transmit but what the other guy may do is come here if that's possible to do and there's there's physics models that suggest that that may be possible and and Carl I mean what you're saying is extremely consequential and you've referenced other people that have said the same thing that also have similar credibility um there's similar reasons for why we should believe many of these folks yet the government itself has not formally disclosed they've been very reluctant to do that why why do you think that is so there's six basic reasons and this again you could draw this out from first principles there's a national security reason there's the lack of a plan there's the potential for societal disruption there's the possibility that there's some non-public agreement there's the potential for misdeeds and the and the desire to cover up misdeeds and there's just the basic organizational intransigence and lack of priority that might be associated with the topic so all these things are factors the the issue is that really the national security issue subsumes all the others and so there's an opportunity maybe to to contract the national security issue similarly to what was done with nuclear weapons and nuclear energy such that nuclear energy is not necessarily classified and is available to the public but lack of a plan and the potential for societal disruption are key ingredients that would prevent any responsible leader from coming forward with information that they don't have the means to address in a responsible way it would be irresponsible to do that okay so so what you're saying is that you have absolute conviction that a higher form of non-human intelligence has visited this planet that there are factions within our own government that know about this yet we still don't have a plan and they may uh represent a security issue this may be this may pose a threat to humans yet you still believe that we should disclose is that right correct right so so there's three reasons that Trump all those others and those others are basically valid like I said so the first issue is the moral right the the government exists for and by the people and so the nature of reality is fundamentally not government information people have a right to know the world in which we we live and the pursuit of happiness requires that knowledge so that's sort of the first kind of overarching philosophical foundation for this but you know as a Cory to that if there are misdeeds that were done then they need to be remediated if there's lack of proper oversight which is suggested by some of the whistleblowers that needs to be remediated so the first issue is the moral issue the second issue is being in a reactive mode is never preferable to being in a proactive mode so reactive mode is basically trying to prevent disclosure but failing that you might get a situation where you have catastrophic disclosure that creates all the problems that you were trying to prevent so a more balanced middle path control disclosure is the best way to do this which is again an argument for some amount of disclosure and the third part is simply uh societal advance and uh Global competitiveness more Brain Trust needs to be brought into this topic in order to make progress and to improve society and and so all three of those things together Trump the six other reasons for non-disclosure and and what do you think happens if we don't disclose I I know you mentioned this idea of catastrophic disclosure maybe disclosure may be forced upon us uh how do you think about that so the situation is usually thought of as a binary State it's like an All or Nothing uh and people have sort of argued this but anybody paying attention realizes the government has already indicated that unidentified anomalous phenomena are real they're not ours and they're not our adversaries the Pentagon has said that like for people that are paying attention like that showe already dropped so for a lot of people they think that the second shoe to drop is this is non-human intelligence and you maybe the conversation stops there like president comes out and says you know uh there's non-human intelligence the truth is that that will precipitate this Crescendo of other questions that maybe the government's not ready to answer that will court if not precipitate potential negative ramification for society and so as an example of this I would actually point to something from the ancient past that the Bronze Age collaps so Eric Klein Princeton University 2015 wrote a very interesting book called 1177 BC the age that civil the year that Civilization failed and so this is well known to to current scholarship within a single lifetime all of the very effective ancient civilizations of the Bronze Age failed due to a Confluence of reasons that are not necessarily fully understood today so we're talking about Egypt the hittite Empire The monan Empire the Assan Empire the Babylonian Empire all these civilizations failed never to return other than let's say Egypt and so these were highly sophisticated civilizations with highly developed infrastructures highly developed uh administrative States they were globalist in a sense very similar to today in terms of the Known World the known near East they were economically interdependent they had uh uh both diplomatic ties and commerce ties and yet these civilizations failed in a single lifetime because of stressors that these civilizations collectively could not address within uh within the time frame and so if we look at our society today uh one might argue that it's similarly fractured similarly under economic stress similarly under um cultural stress as well you know fractured uh and fragile diplomatic situation it mirrors very much this scenario yeah and and so for a respon responsible decision maker that is certainly a factor and and so I I guess when you say that um are you implying that perhaps we as a society may not be ready for disclosure or or are you saying that we may not be able to defend ourselves against this other Force so there's sort of different viewpoints on you know whether people are ready to um you know deal with this phenomenon and you know popular cultures kind of infused with this stuff Roswell became a meme a long time ago we got programs on Ancient Aliens Skinwalker Ranch all this stuff I guess I would draw an analogy though for people that believe in a certain Faith tradition whatever that Faith tradition is and hold to that And subscribe to that in a very serious and devout way and and you know sort of pose the question even for folks of that ilk and I would count myself as one if you're confronted with the reality of your religious belief system like the reality of the metaphysical uh an angel a a messenger from god what have you that's going to be a SE State change in your in your way of dealing with reality right even though you already believe it right so it's one thing to believe and it's another to know and I think in this context this this phenomena has an analogous the potential for an analogous effect both on the individual and on society yeah but but do you think that the phenomenon this non-human form of intelligence represents a threat to humanity so so this is a good question too and some of the other folks have sort of framed things in that in that light and I guess I would suggest that if we're the the universe is governed by conservation laws and it's probably reasonable to assume the laws of nature that we understand apply everywhere we may have incomplete understanding undoubtedly we we do of these laws but they're sort of homogeneous and apply throughout the Universe and so those laws are governed by conservation rules there's conserved quantities and so this reality really forces a darwinian type competition in order uh to survive and so it's reasonable to assume any other civilization that's evolved has come up through the same darwinian evolutionary process so I think it's naive to expect complete out truism until unless you get to a post a state of post scarcity where where you you essentially have no uh you know physical needs uh that we're kind of encumbered with in in in this universe and so in some sense it's the economics of the future that are going to determine whether there's cooperation competition or some sort of symbiosis yeah and um inform the intention but to assume either Mal inent or complete altruism I think is somewhat naive yeah so so it sounds like what you're saying is it's impossible to know that true intentions of a higher intelligence we may be competing for the same scarce resources we may not be right we may be almost irrelevant from them uh irrelevant to them and they may be acting altruistically although we cannot safely assume that and so I guess I'm I'm curious if we continue down this disclosure path do you believe that disclosure is inevitable so again people that sort of look at this topic and study it and there have been some some good um examinations on this from a historical standpoint have realized that like we're not in really a new state like this sort of disclosure emphasis has come and gone over time and so this is not the first time we've arrived at this stage I I I would suggest that maybe the peak of this current cycle happened last December with the Schumer Amendment and then it got rolled back was defeated in the house and so it remains to be seen you know if the process is going to continue one hopes and and can maybe draw a little bit of um uh confidence that maybe this will come around is the colloquy that Senator Schumer and Senator rounds had back in December after their Amendment got killed they basically went on the senate floor and articulated their rationale for the legislation and I think Senator Schumer to quote him almost said it was a travesty that this did not pass so this is you know a bipartisan cqu on a topic that I guess most people would probably consider Fringe and yet these two senators felt the need to do that and to double down on their desire to see this through yeah so hopefully we will see maybe a reintroduction of some version of that this summer uh with the goal maybe putting it into the ndaa by the end of the year do you think that it's imperative that the United States leads on the disclosure efforts so this is an interesting question too because this is a global phenomenon and it's affecting uh other count countes just like the United States the reporting on this is clear over decades other countries have reported this stuff and and not only that you know the Vatican has come out and and made statements uh that reference or tangentially reference this topic so organized religion has a say in this topic as well so it's really a whole of Planet whole of humanity problem and so the US has got its role to play but these other countries have their role to play and it would be who of us to recognize that that uh you know us action could be PR preempted by another party yeah and it would be uh probably more conducive to work collectively yeah I mean I think the one thing that I don't fully understand that I'd love to get your thoughts on Carl I mean if we assume that a higher form of non-human intelligence has been visiting this planet if we assume that some of the statements made by folks like Dave grush are true that we have crash materials and if we assume that those craft that we may have exhibit characteristics that defy our current understanding of physics it would it would seem that that technology would provide an incredible strategic advantage to whatever Nation ends up reverse engineering at first and so to me that would imply that there is a race happening to reverse engineer this and that this topic would be a top priority do you agree with that so I think some of what you say is a reasonable conclusion be drawn and I've suggested something similar in in past statements the point here though is to go from a predisclosure to a post-disclosure world maybe two stable states that are separated by an unstable middle ground and so how you make that transition again you know Bes speaks to the concern about this catastrophic uh disclosure and this has come up in sort of arms regulation too mutually assured destruction however much we don't like it is sort of a stable kind of you know geostrategic regime uh you know the uh the Reagan Era defense Shield idea is also a very stable scenario but to go from one to the other is very unstable yeah and so this topic sort of mirrors that yeah and I and I I know you and I were talking earlier about this idea that in order to really understand the phenomena it's likely that we have to further our understanding of reality itself and I guess I'm wondering I can imagine a future where we acknowledge and we know that there is a higher form of non-human intelligence yet we still don't truly understand the phenomena we still don't truly understand reality and so I guess I'm wondering do you think that we'll ever truly understand what's going on or if part of the game part of the Journey part of life itself is operating in an environment where at least part of it is fundamentally unknowable to us so this a totally philosophical epist logical question right really about the nature of knowledge itself right like how can we know what we know and how can we be sure about what we know I guess personally I subscribe to the idea that there is an ultimate truth and that uh Humanity being you know created in the image of a a higher power is endowed with the quality to pursue an understanding of that and so our our you know part of our uh objective in this existence is is to to seek that out and try to understand that that ultimate truth to a greater and greater degree and uh this would be a component of that obviously well Carl I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today um I'm hopeful and optimistic that together maybe we can move the ball forward here and further our understanding of what is really going on because I I certainly agree with you I think it is very consequential that um we figure this out so thank you again for coming thank you again to salt for hosting us and thank you all for listening my pleasure thank you

Channel: SALT

Views: 646,559

Keywords: Alex Klokus, UAPs, UFOs, Aliens

Id: Rpl0FrdJWfs

Length: 21min 36sec (1296 seconds)

Published: Wed May 22 2024