You Can't "Act As If" God Exists

that that's what the success of a movement like new atheism consists in in the fact that all they had to do was just tell other people why they're wrong you only need to poke coals in other people's clothes but if you need to like sew your own shirt yeah that gets a little more difficult see as swi said that the the purpose of philosophy is not the cutting down of forests for the irrigation of deserts that's very interesting yeah I I've thought about this for a good while um the seductiveness of being a Critic as opposed to being somebody that makes suggestions uh and the lack of preparedness of anybody to put forward any proposals for anything and it's easy for both sides accuse each other of being reactionary right the reactionary right the reactionary left uh and ultimately for instance perect perfect example of this is in the world of dating and sort of mate selection of the mating Market uh everybody can provide criticisms about what's going wrong and almost nobody provides any actionable steps to improve it Beyond something that is eliminative rather than additive right like well if we could just stop doing this then this would be fixed it's like I don't think that that's quite the way that it works and there's another very unique protection mechanism that's given which is it's very hard to criticize someone's criticism or at least being a a Critic leaves you open to criticism way less than being a proposer oh yeah right if I if I put something forward if I posit a potential solution for you to be able to come back and say well this is and this is and this is makes complete it's very easy to do whereas for you to say for me to critic you what you did and then for you to come back and go well actually this and this and this about it's like n it kind of gets all a little bit abstract and it's a few degrees removed from anything that feels real yeah Simon cow can't write a song you know like if the world was full of Simon cows then you'd end up with no music somebody's got to do the building here you can't just be a Critic and this is what I think has been the reason for the success of the sort of anti- new atheist stuff that we've been seeing recently I mean you'll have seen this even the new atheist themselves sort of treat it like it's a it's a dead animal and in many ways it is and I think it's got to do with the fact that yeah they they they've done a very good job of of cutting down the central pillar of what has traditionally been the reason for people getting out of bed in the morning and then when people are there saying well what do we put in its place they're like see you you know I'm out and they go off and do different things and and what are people to do and that's why the job of the new atheists to provide something to well maybe not some some people are just good at diagnosing problems KL marks is a good example like K marks is diagnosis of of of the way the world works are fascinating to read and Incredibly useful even if you disagree with them but obviously attempt to sort of build uh societies on those ideas alone have failed seems like you need something a little bit more um I just don't think it's true the religion stuff I mean and so that's why I think we're seeing this because people are beginning to realize that it probably isn't true they can't get like quite get behind the truth claims but they recognize that there's some utility in having other people believe that it is true and I don't know where that leaves us because in this discussion about whether religion is good or bad for society I said yesterday look I will accept your premise wholesale that religion is good maybe even necessary for society what do you want me to do if I just don't think it's true might just lie to my children raise them believing something that I I don't believe is the case because I think it will somehow be beneficial to society I don't think it works like that I don't think people can actually fool themselves sure you can act as if God exists and that's what someone like Peterson says that people do already but ultimately if you just say well I think that you know it's I should just act like a Christian because it's good for me then when push comes to shove and you really have to make a moral sacrifice if you're not actually a Christian you're probably not going to do the actually Christian thing well I wonder whether this is afforded to people because of the convenience and comfort of Modern Life the fact that having to really really put something on the line it's mostly laughing as you know belief systems and oh I'll pick up that piece of trash and I will you know give money to this person on the street yeah people have sort of forgotten I mean it's like Bourgeois religious belief it's so it's so irregularly that we have to make genuine moral sacrifices of the kind that used to be common place throughout the history of humanity that we've sort of Forgotten our ability to do so and I think that if you push people now they they recognize that they probably wouldn't make those sacrifices did you see the Mr Beast poll where he asked would you rather have like a million dollarss or like a random person on Earth dies or something like that if you press this button no and like I I think it might have been a majority of people that slim majority said they you know press that button yeah kill kill someone random I'll take a million bucks and and I actually kind of believe them I think they actually would and people want to say that that's because we've lost you know our belief in God I don't know maybe I I think a better exp is just that like you say we've become too comfortable and so when somebody says in other words like oh well you know this must be due to due to to decline in religion and the fact that we've forgotten our judeo Christian Heritage I mean you'll probably hear that a lot from people that you might talk to on this podcast they'll say something like that just think to yourself like is that really the best explanation is that the only explanation could it be something to do with the growth of Technology could it do could it be to do with something of something to do with the growth of comfort and is it more likely to do with that and maybe it's not the lack of religion that's causing the the other stuff but this other source that's causing both of those things yeah I've been thinking a lot recently about uh stuff that is literally true but figuratively false and figuratively true but literally false and uh it kind of seems a little bit like the beliefs that you're talking about here it may be comforting increasing in happiness adaptive to kind of act as if these things exist uh the belief in free will actually uh believing in free will or sorry uh yeah determinism generally is something that may be literally true but figuratively false yes and that's kind of where I've come to as an opinion with this that largely it's through designed ignorance that I just don't think about it that much precisely the reason it evolves that's why it exists it's an illusion because it it it does something for us and and that's fine I have I have I've never had a problem saying that but when the sort of opes under which I'm having a conversation with Ben chapiro is that he made a video called The Atheist delusion and in that video he says like look you can't have free will without God I say yeah I agree you can't have free will without God you just also can't have it with God and he essentially says like well you know there's sort of a I don't know how free will works but it's sort of a mystery that I'm I'm willing to accept wholesale and I'm like well this is fine but who's the Del loser one here you know what I mean like I I've got no problem with you saying like well I I see that this is more benter by the way but I have no problem with somebody saying well yeah I mean maybe Free Will doesn't exist but it's better to act as though it does it's like okay fine but then don't don't say that I'm the one acting under a delusion I mean delusions can be good they might evolve for a good reason but but I don't know I I guess I find it difficult to treat something as true that isn't it's a bit like the gun is always loaded that's one of Brett Weinstein's example examples it's it's not true that the gun is always loaded but we're just going to pretend that it is and that's much better at least to a good Society false but figuratively true but like you can't actually act like it's true like if you ask me to put money on like opening the gun and seeing if there's a bullet in there you can behave in a way that functions as if it were but then when push comes to shove and you really need to make a decision yeah you're not going to be able to do it unless you really believe it's so this only works in low stakes situations yeah so so you know it's it's all too easy to say oh you know we we'll just we'll just sort of act as though it's true good example here using the using the act as if the is loaded thing uh you do not point it at anybody you do not leave it around the children you do not do the rest of it if a uh robber breaks into your house you don't go downstairs with said gun acting as if it's loaded exactly exactly right and so the moment that it actually really matters like in the prior case it only matters when it goes wrong right but when it begins to matter when it goes right and that it goes right this principle just doesn't work and so I'm I'm suspicious of his efficacy in other words I think we might need to actually start acting in accordance with what's true which by the way is what people have been saying for a long time oh why don't we all just act in accordance with what's true and then suddenly when you begin to realize that maybe Free Will doesn't exist maybe morality is just a social adaptation suddenly this idea of acting in accordance with what's true as as a as a point of principle goes out the window and it's amazing how I've I I sort of see deontologists virtue ethicists transform before my very eyes into utilitarians outg goes the principle of live in accordance with the truth outgo the principles of honesty and and sort of lack of intentional self-deception because well we want the greatest good for the greatest number you know a better more functional Society comes about if we just pretend as though this is the case what happened to The Virtue what happened to the principle what happened to the deontological ethics it's just out the window all of a sudden I think sometimes people like to have their cake can eat it too in that respect I like to act in accordance with what I think is true and when somebody challenges me and says well you don't act as though you don't have free will I I just don't know what that means I don't know what that looks like it probably looks something like this

Channel: Alex O'Connor

Views: 202,683

Keywords: Alex O'Connor, cosmic, skeptic, cosmicskeptic, atheism, within reason, podcast, within reason podcast, religion, debate, Alex J O'Connor

Id: HJpgprMIpiQ

Length: 10min 8sec (608 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 18 2024