WWII Reunion: Navajo Code Talkers 2

from the Library of Congress in Washington DC okay good morning everyone I guess good afternoon everybody my name is Dave Winkler I am a historian with the naval Historical Foundation here in Washington at the Washington Navy Yard and I'm a volunteer with the library Congress veterans in history project and I'm glad you're all here today this is going to be a very interesting session because we're gonna have a conversation with some real Americans talking about how they contributed to the war effort in the Pacific with the Marine Corps we have Keith little and samuel Smith and we have Sam Bilson I understand he's on the 14th Street bridge tied up behind a bunch of Rolling Thunder motorcycles on his way in so hopefully he'll be joining us later in the conversation what we're here to talk about is the Navajo code talkers which is one of the interesting stories of the Second World War basically after Pearl Harbor there was this fella fella by name of Philip Johnston he was a son of a missionary who had grown up and on the Navajo reservation and spent about 24 years there well in February 1942 Johnston approached Major General Fogle who is the commanding general of the amphibious forces Pacific and he says you know I have an idea I have an idea that can help us win the war what we have because he was familiar with the Navajo language he thought that would be a very good means of communication secure me communications between marine forces to expedite you know the tactical situations on in combat and in to save lives so he pitched this idea and the general probably was like I don't know if he was from Missouri but he said show me so what he did is he got these up there was these four Navajos who lived in a los angeles area and on february 28 1942 they did the state stage this demonstration and I'm guessing the demonstration probably or something like this where would hand a one of the Navajos a message something like this and could you translate that to Sam Smith my name is Keith little I'm a Navajo code talker and I live in Crystal New Mexico and but originally I was raised in western part of the Navajo Nation in Arizona I have a focused of New Mexico's over there that keeps me grounded there also that I serve in the Marine Corps from 19 May 1943 to November 27 1945 and today I'm gonna mention we talk about the Navajo code talkers a lot a lot of people asked who are the Navajo code talkers what did they do and where did they come from so origination of novel code talkers and why they were originated it is something I'm going to talk about today and you know immediately after December 7 1941 the Japanese were very successful in capturing and occupying a lot of land in Southeast Asia and some and to China of course we know they invaded Philippine and they landed on Wake Island ROM so by by the first month of the war they were everywhere in in the Southeast Asia and the South Pacific and by numb by April 1942 they occupied a lot of Southeast Asia a lot of our garrison and Philippines who were captured and became prison war and that quite a few Navajo boys who were in that garrison and Philippines he were the first one to be trapped into the year st were a lot of them were members of New Mexico National Guard so they wound up in Philippine with 200 coast artillery and there was some of those were my foot older friends but associated with them a lot and when our first saw them in army uniform theythey look pretty pretty sharp they look good so I I wanted to listen us in the army also but I was really young at that time in 1941 I was only 15 years old and in 1942 I was 16 year old but I was not aware of the United States Marine course prior to 1942 the middle of the middle of 1942 and that the story goes back there to about the Navajo code talkers how did they get into the war and it starts with a fellow named Philip Johnston that he lived in Los Angeles a civil engineer and he was also his parents he lived on a Navajo Reservation he had a missionary parents Oh he was raised with a Navajo Playmates and he knew how to talk Navajo like we say white man's Navajo heavy accent so anyway he knew about the Navajos how complex their land which is is hard to learn for non Navajo to learn so he and fortune Alva hosel working in los angeles in defense jobs he gathered a few of them up and run down to Sandy and come before it a communication commander and showed them how the Navajo land which could be used as a cold and the reason for that one of the reason is that some of the American Indian army had been used in World War one and he knew about it being associated with the Navajo the course that became very interested with him so he recommended that that way he demonstrated how it's going to work I showed to work and convinced the marine corps commanders to at least try out so the Marine Corps is from San Diego Santa said the Marine recruiters to Navajo land and there they set up their a recruiting station somewhere around a window walk and fortifies and visit the swoops around what when engaged Shiprock and some of the schools are on the reservation but I don't know why they did not come to the school that I was attending I would have been a very interesting but that's one of the reason that I had not heard of the United States Marine Corps is up to that time now this was in March 1942 was happening so when they were signing up Navajo men for a potential communication specialist they call him they call him a communication specialist that term Navajo code talker had not been determined yet so they went in they said it is said that they recruited or that over 600 men signed up well I don't know how many days they were on the reservation but according to the stories that I that I that I read it that they had over 600 people some of them even come to the recruiting station carrying their 22 rifles so that is the Fatimid and soil requests that the Marine Corps themself they wanted 200 and that's the way the request was made to the Commandant and they wonder when they received the authorization back they told him to only get 30 for a trial project so meanwhile the 30 reader that some of the potential communication specialists were already selected so that 30 was picked out on departure day only 29 showed up one didn't show up so they sent him to San Diego crew depo they went through boot camp with flying colors because they were physically fit and they an unusual Pitou the first Platoon that ever Native American in particular Navajos they were made up one one platoon I think it's 380 second two during that time when they finished their their boot camp they were ship on up to camp Elliott there they they were given a workroom a classroom they said that the building had to steal barred windows I don't know if that's true or not but that is the way the story goes in and their day that they were given a pamphlet of military words and wildlife the sky has all the words that are used in battlefield in other words battlefield language and names of all the weapons that are used in the names of the units and even the names of the countries around the world now they were today they were told to give it a Navajo word to each one of these words but they went a little further so and devised a code so that it is a navajo code not a regular Navajo language just a code like they give terms to to the weapons that are used like a machine gun feels don't be so despondent so I'm like that you know fast shooter fast shooting gun and then such such terms as airplanes fighter plane is a hummingbird Tahiti Tahiti and then grenades as a potatoes eggs and bombs all the Navajo so when what if one year certain that message and set for supplies if they're grand natives in inclu included they will be potatoes so that devised these in such a way that it won't be confusing to anyone that will try to break it so that's the way that the first also the alphabet the ordinary all have that has 26 letters but they come up with our 46 I think it is and some of the most commonly used were assigned three code words like the letter A it has three words that that indicates able that letter eight such as Apple in Navajo term for Apple and and X there lisanna will achieve and sadness these were Navajo Navajo coded words for the letter A so you when you're spelling a letter you don't you don't repeat a the second time use another letter so that is the way it is or in now the word in Navajo if there is if there is two letters like an e following each other now the letter e was at three also ear I and elk so when you're spelling a word out you say when one two two letters follow each other you say a Josh chaos like that to learn to and ear following each other this is the way it would turn out if you write it down the way you said but it is that four letter or letter e like it he'll say please' a charge k us basalt there is pig though that that that that's the way yeah that's the way they would that word was created so it's rather very much confusing if you write a letter down but anyway that is how the first 29 Marines that were recruited on the Navajo Reservation created the code very devised in such a way that it is scheme to fool somebody the enemy and the reason it was done is that that Japanese had also broken our American code and we were at the United States I guess were trying to come up with some some form of communication where they can send messages freely without any offense and navajo code became that replaced that originally the code the natural codes that were used by military so while they were when when it was all done that's how the Navajo code was created Navajo code talkers so the first group were sent to South Pacific and can I pick it up from here because that was that's an excellent overview of how to code came about there are some things that I learned here that first of all there were Navajos who were captured by the Japanese in the Philippines so the Japanese had access to the Navajo language which is an unwritten language so what these 29 folks had to do is they had to create a code within the language so that it couldn't even be deciphered by Navajos so that that was a you know a very clever accomplishment and then as you mentioned your folks were put on the into the field of battle now what I'd like to do is give Sam Smith and Sam Bilson an opportunity first of all I got to ask the question and you answered it really wide to join the Marine Corps could you talk a little bit about what motivated you to join the Marines and then could you talk a little bit about that training you had up at Camp Elliot and going into the field so got there everybody got there you just broke the code the way elicit the Marine Corps was that in 1943 I was in the high school and they had captions in the Albuquerque Journal and the radio KOB they always have a short sentence sir the few have raved the Marines and I always wanted to be one of those when I was in high school and then to make it worse John Wayne was making some Marine pitchers that really made me want to go there so I enlisted when I was now is in April in the senior year and the recruiter told me to wait finish your high school get your diploma and then we'll come and get you sure enough on graduation day I looked over there there were two marine sitting over there and their marine blues so I know they were waiting for me there were three of us Samuel Smith was one of them and then the other guy was virtual Kirk he didn't he didn't join the the code talkers he went with the Air Force I think in any way they took us to the Santa Fe we passed the physical and they shipped me to San Diego right away I don't know what they did with these other two and now I got in the boot camp went through there like all the Marines and I really enjoyed the boot camp because I was physically in shape because I faked football basketball big Paul and Trek and a lot of other guys were falling down because in Maine latter partner made it was very hot in San Diego Martian was both back and running and some guys were just falling over but I really enjoyed all that obstacle courses and a lot of boys thought I was crazy but it was I really enjoyed the boot camp and now after that the there was an officer he asked me hey chief are you an Indian I said no sir I'm a Navajo so he said he said oh good he says do you know speak Navajo yesterday do you understand Navajo yesterday and and I said this other guy was a West being a platoon now also Navajo he was standing right beside me the officer said about you chief he says me too so the officer said get your seat back throw it in the Jeep I'll take it to Oceanside so T what's he going to do as I said Oceanside I didn't know there was the name of a town so in Oceanside there's a big brand new camp marine camp the great big barracks and now we drove in front one of the barracks and there's all these young neighborhoods studying I guess they were studying code and and I thought gee I thought I just came from the reservation I don't want to be with these Navajos I don't be a Marine so we stopped there and we registered and we started studying that the code the court was very difficult because he was quoted as never language but it was coded so but after you learn it it was easy lot of Navajos didn't pass that coat allowed him had to take it over two or three times to qualify and out of all those Navin was that come in every year every summer only 421 qualified to be code talkers and that's how many we had during the war and so it was easy after you learned it because it just came in three areas three phase anything that flew were named after different types of birds and he seen on the ground were named after those seeds that are on the ground like weapons and machines and personnel and old as anything that float are submerged were named after fish so so it was just in three areas when when the coat is coming over they say city which is bird you know it's some kind of airplane and if they said something on the on the ground like you mentioned a yangzi I think a Yankee was braum and if he says fish are sure that some kind of a ship so you notice right away what area that that coat belongs so but during the process of teaching rod we're Laden it was top secret you couldn't take notes there was nothing in writing everything was verbal you just put it in your head and try to keep it there and then and you can't go outside and talk about it everything stays in here you can't go to Los Angeles have a couple of beers and tell your girlfriend hey there's a quote you know it goes like this you can't do that so and then during the war was top secret only four people knew about that coat the piastre they want the ascent the message and the officer that receives a message and the kurta sent a message and receives the message when they they sent the court only those who never cool tux know but once they once they sent it they don't talk about it it's put away somewhere and you don't gossip about it and and and I guess you're what give giving if you talk about it so once he sent it that's the end of it so and then the cannot the requirements to join the Marines where one was they asked you do you know how to swim one of them and a you know how to swim don't know hope boy says oh yeah I know I know how to swim when they get you know there's no water on the reservation and during the boot camp there's a day that they called qualification you qualify for rifle qualify for this what courses qualify for swimming qualified to jump 3540 feet off the tire into the water with full track and stay alive and and the one day the swimming came up they line us up there were this other board myself is Navajo boy his name was Robert Malone so we line up Britta Frissell then adult federal all the way across halfway back I I went down San Diego has a a real big olympic-sized fools where you have to qualify your cool cross come back cross from I think it's four times and I went down and I got to the bottom pushed myself up and look at the lifesaver and he was looking the other way I went down again pushed myself up again he's still looking the other way the third time the same thing he's still looking the other way not 34th time I've rarely came back up he looked at me and he says what's the matter chief I said help but that time our arms were Lynn my lace for liver I couldn't throat I was just standing straight up like this he jumped after me and pulled me out and the next day we had a big list mine is on there Casualty Company non-saucy they would give you our Marines in there so for two weeks they taught us how to swim toward us different strokes and that and we qualified eventually and then then I didn't have to worry about it but to make it worse there that I was with I was at the 5th Marine Division they did away with what they called our carburetors carts and Raiders were too tough unique group and in the South Pacific and now what they did away with that they established what they call reconnaissance company so they asked for volunteers and about five or six of Navajo code talkers we volunteered not knowing what it was we know what it was they well $50 more in paycheck and come to fana you supposed to know how to swim underwater and here we go again you didn't know how to swim underwater so what take out this time to take us out of the ocean they cut us a little ways and rubber boats they dumped us and they say swim underwater back to shore oh I thought I thought they gave you out the Marines yet you know but we qualified and that that swimming was really problem with us so but this is now the whole quote they got they use it only with Guadalcanal that's the first time the Marines landed going back towards Tokyo Guadalcanal is situated in the Solomon Islands just a few miles from Australia that's how far the Japanese have gone they have taken all of eastern Asia Borneo Philippines and the most Solomon Islands so that the debris the 1st and 2nd Marine Division landed on that world will come now and then some islands and in salmon they took all those and but on Guadalcanal they had a little problem they didn't the Marines didn't know about the code so they heard this over the radio and they start complaining to the officers they the Japanese were taken over our communication and here is Navajo quote so the more complaints coming in that Kranti the general Sarah let's let's test these Indians give me a give us a problem so they wrote a small message combat message and the United States Marines sent the message when they send a message when they receive it is still in quote they go to an officer to decipher quotes and offers safest the basecoat to see if it's a correct quote then another one to see if coming from the right place at the right pace almost two hours before it got to the general so he says let's try the end when the Navajo sent the quote has been deciphered as coming over the air when the receiver gets it it's in English so he hands it to the general two and a half minutes so so general said geez I don't believe this write another one let's try it another one same thing happened the American message almost two hours the Neven will quote two and a half minutes well general says let's keep those damn ninjas and some of these novels are short you know and dark-complected got a black hair some of them have slant eyes a little bit they were mistaken for Japanese and they were throwing in the break and neighbors had to go over there and talk to them and bailed him out he's a Navajo get him get him out we need him so but this court got so significant so fast so correct that by evil Jima the main communication was Navajo clue can you imagine that [Applause] yeah and that's a good place because I want to turn over to Sam Smith because I have a question for him yeah what we're gonna do is talk about Ujima with the three is next question one more point okay go ahead don't cut me off now I forgot what I was gonna say sorry about that anyway the they caught the Navajo and Philippines but he fortunately he was in the army they took in Tokyo they took all his clothes off put him out in the playground his feet were frozen to the pavement they kicked trill in him they did what does this message sake and he tell them this is what it says it's Navajo language and this is what it says and it didn't make any sense so they keep after him they finally take it up give up on him so they put him back in prison pretty soon the war was over he came back came back to to the city and now it's when we saw him over there he said I don't like Navajo code talkers your foot be in trouble so but there's not a lot of we found out that the Navajo language was the most powerful the most sacred the most beautiful language and I'm sure that all the Native American languages are like that also so we found out this this was like that in the Navajo code talkers we we accept acknowledge and and respect all the military branches of United States Armed Forces god bless you god bless america [Applause] what what I want to ask one of the ironies here is that before the war there was an effort I gets to eliminate the Navajo language or you're not supposed to talk Navajo in school and such and here the Navajo language basically saves hundreds of lives to a World War two why wanted to do is ask a samuel Smith a little bit about that and then talk about how the the code talkers were accepted amongst the Marines in the field and then I'd like you to talk about Eva Jima and then we'll have the the other two gents talk about their experiences at Iwo Jima because and talk about how the code worked actually in combat situations so could you take it though thank you hello fellow citizens before before I went to war I lied about my age - together Marine Corps because I didn't like the way Pearl Harbor was a technic attack Sunday morning and I'm in Arizonian the USS Arizona was sunk ooh they're still still underwater those two and some other things that make me angry so I decided to get in and get even and I was only 15 when that happened so I worked on it by before that my grandparents and my parents got me in the condition to be a Marine when I was born they gave me a year's name so I had to be a warrior and I didn't know what that would come about shortly but that's what happened I'd lied about my age like he said we went down to two Albuquerque recruiting office I had I was in 11th grade and him and the judge were accepted I went back outside I thought about it felt bad about it so I went back inside and I told the recruiter that I had made a mistake in my birth year so I lowered it he said Michael you're right and so my discharge paper it says inducted discharged enlisted before I was sworn in that's the way it's written on my discharge papers and I have to deal with two different birth years my life today I have a driver's license that is older then I have some other records that I have to deal with that are younger so that's the way it is I never debit straighten up but I did serve boot camp down San Diego 13 weeks crash course how to kill and when I was going down there I told my mother I got drafted and she said where we kept doing nothing about its uncle so my grandpa came one night to do some blessing on me to to to go serve in combat I knew that was killing I knew who was going to get killed or something but it didn't matter I my what I'm gonna do was important then he to win and touch my arm he said grandson you're still upon peace and you haven't called a coyote pop yeah I said that's alright grandpa I'll get some on the way and I didn't know what he meant but you know catcher like coyote pop is in your term talking your son about Burt's of bees that's what it were asked and I was going to catch some on the way and so I went I finished 13 weeks earned some of the things that I'm wearing now and at the end of the graduation they gave us an aptitude test to be what we want to be in the Marine Corps I wanted to fly because I wanted to get even with those snake attackers so I chose Air Wing I wanted to be a pilot I passed an aptitude test but they came back and told me I don't have a diploma and they're right I had just finished 11th grade so I met my next choice was artillery because that one will do a lot of damage not whether to do that by that time they found out I was a Navajo I was different in color so they came back and said are you a Navajo I said yes sir that's when they told me to go with them with my seed back up to Oceanside Camp Pendleton and I didn't never knew about the Navajo code talkers school but I found out that's where it was to train to the communication and we only we only did not learn just a navajo code we also took other training in case we to learn the Morse code blinker panels semaphore and our own code that's what we had to learn and memorize so that happened and about four months or three months that they told us that they wanted to give us a test so we can get promoted to sergeant and I did my best mate good great that only got me in the fourth Marine Division no promotion I was still PFC when I left so I was placed with the general I think his name was Smith or Schmidt that was in charge a fourth Marine Division at that time later Clifton B Kate's took over and I thought I had it mate being next to the general back behind the lines nope I was wrong when I was with the general in the combat every once in a while a group would come by and they would want some volunteers and I'm always at the end of their finger that's how I had some of the terrible experiences on account back the first combat we had was Marshall Islands partially Android no more spent about a week there and came back to Iowa second biggest island Honolulu group that's where they we practice with killin action wounded and action and all the Navajo code talkers were brought up from measurements and battalions to their Division Headquarters where we had and where we could study our our neighborhood code and if we had any problem in the in combat that was where we made the correction or make it so that it can be faster and so I'm like that after we finished with that one when we're ready to go into combat or at least Navajo code talkers were put back down to their respective positions on the regiment's Italian and companies all the way up to front H alone they they were kind of put around like I was to where everything would be needed wherever the navajo code would be needed that's how the Marine Corps operated my world code talkers so we hit the Saipan I don't remember the dates but we were there about three weeks I think we lost when code talker and we rest there about a week regroup and go down south to Tinian which when we took care of it right away because the Japanese were doing a Benza attack and our we think was pick them up and after that we went back tomorrow we practice with the replacements replacements were always waiting or there are always over there waiting for us and we get down to business right away to do the maneuvers scrimmages again all the Navajo code talkers come up to the division headquarters to to train practice again on the codes and usually we we have problems so we collect those and so we can use it at that time myself and my assistant were flown over to Pearl Harbor and there I found other instructors from other Marine Corps division that were brought from other islands and they had the same problem we had so we put all the books together made it one book and took it back to our division to learn that one you get ready here it was it would Jima that's where the night before attack at the briefing he said we would take the island and the one week and they took this one the week to get off the beach so that that's how did the we work and on that island we we found out that there was too many under the land I don't know how many on top of each other that flamethrower tank went in and burned them out and covered those caves but one or two days later they would dig themselves out and we would be a attack from behind that's how it took so long to to get that I than secure they did we we were there about 30 some days and before we finish getting the whole island a Flying Fortress coming back from Japan landed there there was two two airfields one of those big ones landed there that that was the purpose of getting that Idol so that Duty the Burman planes coming back run shortly guess that's where they were to live so that that was the reason for getting that item back and cause cost too much to get it back somewhere during my battle on the island somewhere else maybe some other Marine Division somewhere I have an older brother that was in our Army Air Force and he was shot down over Philippines and he became a prisoner and he told me after the that code was Declassified in 1968 after that he approached me and told me what happened to him that the Japanese took him to a radio room and put a wire around his head where the tourniquet keep twisting until he passed out and he was copying everything we said the messages that we said he said he couldn't put it together to make sense he did copy everything that said but it's just the trick that we try to explain the trick was so unique that it's hard to explain would take a long time to really explain it right but we are very proud to have tricked them and to have done what we did to to shorten the war save lot of lives and to my left is dr. Samir pay listen to my right his teeth mr. teeth little he's the treasurer and he's the president of the Association and I keep them there I would have revolved to do the Phil Donahue thing where I go out in the audience and say question but unfortunately we're out of time but I would like to do though is afterwards is have these gentlemen off to decide you have some questions for them feel free I'm sure they'll be happy to spend some time with you on behalf of the Library of Congress veterans history project thank you so much and let's give these gentlemen a round of applause this has been a presentation of the Library of Congress visit us at loc.gov

Channel: Library of Congress

Views: 9,274

Rating: 4.848485 out of 5

Keywords: Library of Congress

Id: ccrGWVat19s

Length: 52min 6sec (3126 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 25 2018