World Over - 2015-06-04 - Full Episode with Raymond Arroyo

tonight an exclusive interview with a man who in many ways has shaped the agenda surrounding the Synod on the Family Walter Cardinal Kasper discusses his controversial proposal for divorced and remarried Catholics and later will get reaction from canon lawyer father Gerald Murray and journalist Robert Royal finally Gregorian chant returns to the birthplace of Saint Benedict for the cash and folsom of the monks of Norcia will explain the chart-topping success of their new CD Benedicta the world over live begins right now now from Washington DC Raymond Arroyo a warm welcome to all of you joining us in the United States and the world over what a show we've got for you tonight a must-see interview with Cardinal Walter Kasper Robert royal father Gerald Murray and father cash in Folsom are all straight ahead if you'd like to comment on tonight's show or if you have a question for one of our guests or if you'd like to react to my live tweeting throughout I'm on Twitter at Raymond Arroyo you can also email us at world over at ewtn.com let's go to the brief news from the world over this week the US Congress has rolled back the National Security Agency's ability to collect and access the phone records of millions of Americans led by Kentucky Senator Rand Paul the USA Freedom Act cleared the Senate 67 to 32 on Tuesday it was signed into law by the president it is the first piece of legislation to reform the post 9/11 surveillance and security measures gone is the bulk collection of phone data by the government new protocols do allow intelligence agencies to access specific records from telephone companies but only after requesting and receiving a court order and be sure to join us next week for our exclusive sit-down with presidential candidate Senator Rand Paul will talk about the Freedom Act his run for the White House and much more and Nebraska governor Pete Ricketts is endorsing a ballot campaign to prevent the repeal of the state's death penalty this past week state lawmakers overrode Ricketts veto and abolished capital punishment making Nebraska the 19th state in the Union to do so the Catholic Bishops hailed the new law asserting the death penalty does not deter crime or promote the common good governor Ricketts said the ban means the loss of a critical tool to protect law enforcement and Nebraska families the state will proceed with executions of 10 people already on death row death penalty supporters have until late August to made enough signatures for the referendum which would take place in November of 2016 and senior Vatican officials got a little testy this week with a pro-life activist who criticized those invited to the Holy See's recent Climate Change Conference stefano Giannini of the UN watchdog group Center for Family and Human Rights Institute took issue with the Vatican welcoming un secretary-general ban ki-moon and UN advisor Jeffrey Sachs to their climate conference given the men's advocacy for abortion rights and other population control measures Giannini published an interview with bishop Marcelo Sanchez sorondo Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of the social sciences in it the bishop defended the UN's climate goals since they quote don't mention abortion or population control they speak of access to family planning sexual and reproductive health and reproductive rights the interpretation and application of those depends on government's end quote as for the criticism about collaborating with the United Nations bond and sax Bishop Serrano said those attacks are the doings of oil interests and the tea party then the president of the Pontifical Academy of the Social Sciences Margaret Archer got into the act on the Vatican website in a statement Archer questioned Jaina Dinis understanding of Catholic social doctrine asking rhetorically is your sole concern with human dignity confined to the period between conception and live birth and appointee of Pope Francis last year Archer then reminded generaiiy quote I am appointed by the Pope and responsible directly to him I'm afraid that leaves you and your cohort out in the cold good thing there's climate change on a related note Pope Francis's encyclical on the environment will be released on Thursday June 18th the world over live will offer full analysis that day and a new survey on the world why'd Catholic Church reveals some good news and some not-so-good according to the Georgetown based Centre for applied research in the apostolate the global Catholic Church has grown 57 percent since 1980 there are now more than 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide the highest growth has been seen in the church in Africa up over 200 percent to 198 million faithful the Americans are still home to the world's largest group of Catholics at nearly 600 million and up 56 percent since 1980 less encouraging was the lack of growth in the Church of Europe a scant six percent also in decline was the use of sacraments among Catholics across the spectrum and Bruce Jenner wasn't the only one changing things up this week members of the Church of England are considering a gender change for God on the heels of a successful campaign to consecrate its first female bishop a woman's advocacy group is now pushing for God to also be referred to as she anglican Reverend Jody Stoll said the current understanding of God as an old white man in the sky is deficient God she said is both male and female and beyond male and female former member of parliament and Widdecombe who became a Catholic when the Church of England began ordaining women priests told the Daily Mail that the movement is plain silly unbiblical and ridiculous God clearly isn't as she as a she she can't be a father when we return my exclusive interview with a man who's been called the Pope's theologian the Cardinal responsible for so much debate at the Synod on the family Cardinal Walter Kasper discusses and defends his controversial proposal for divorced and remarried Catholics next when the world of her life continues stay right there you now once again Raymond Arroyo welcome back to the world over my next guest has dominated conversations inside the Catholic Church for more than two years since Pope Francis publicly praised his work he's been called the Pope's theologian a former German bishop a research assistant to Hans küng and president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Christian unity Cardinal Walter Kasper has been advocating a controversial plan for 20 years last year he renewed his proposal which would allow divorced and remarried Catholics to return to the sacraments after a brief penitential process Casper's proposal as it's come to be known will no doubt figure prominently this October when the Synod on the family meets for the last time in Rome I sat down with the Cardinal here in Washington for a candid conversation about his proposal and its ramifications it provides great insight into the mind of Cardinal Kasper as you will hear a year ago the Cardinal was telling everyone that his proposal was quote clearly what the Pope wants and that's evident end quote tonight he backs away from that papal endorsement but he remains determined to press Synod fathers to embrace his proposal in fact he claims that a majority of them are on his side here's part one a bi interview with Cardinal Walter Kasper your eminence for decades you have been arguing that there needs to be mercy extended to divorced and remarried Catholics in the form of communion granting them communion under certain cases do you feel you're close to achieving that end now with the Synod coming and where the Holy Father is since I do not know because I left it open I did not want to anticipate and see not into the decision of the Holy Father and therefore it's not affirmed proposals are questions and I get a lot of agreements but also a lot of critiques and this attention said now I propose to those who prepare to see not to prepare a text which can be gets a scream and of the home of the great majority it's the same method also we had in the council so your proposal was put forward and it was controversial its response applause but you have said and I'm quoting you the Pope approved of your proposal you said clearly this is what he wants do you agree with that still an hour now for the Pope now I suppose I spoke beforehand mr. Pope it is not a conference academic climate system fountain the issue with most governments and he was in favor to open the debate aha but not a certain proposal and I did not ask him what he wants but he wanted to touch the problem and the open sea debates is he wanted and she said I did but then I had impression he was he more or less he agreed what is that afterwards to see Cardinals it was thought against his opinion but I cannot say that I have now made the proposal of support mm-hmm no because at the time of the Synod I know there was some reportage where you were saying that you were speaking for the Pope and you understood his mind is that was that an exaggeration or do you stand as an exaggeration I I was expressing his mind in the sense that he wanted debate about all this Poppins he is for openness and for frankness and he says is not does not have to suppress the questions I want to explore this a little bit just so the audience fully understands what what is at stake here and what the proposal that we're talking about it is it really is a proposal to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to return to the sacraments with some haste correct well I am for discernment situation by situation I had never said everybody who is divorced and remarried change addresses sacraments every situation is different right and we need confession fathers with experience who can speak with the people it's a whole process and then to come to a discernment of the situation to help also to say the people to have a discernment about you situation and sin perhaps you can gives absolutely how do you preserve the indissolubility of marriage that ideal when you have what is essentially a fast-track back to the sacraments for people in irregular unions of whatever sort those are the first of all in disability of marriage from its face of the church and because it's a world of Jesus Christ you cannot create exceptions said but it's a question how how to apply the word of Jesus to concrete situations the question of and assaulted church has authority to bind and to lose and seek the church can in certain cases make use of this Authority so so you're distinguishing between doctrine and pastoral practice are they two separate things no they are not separate this issue would be the doctor practice must be found in the doctrine but you cannot use directly from a dogma to a concrete praxis right but but in this case though when you say there's an indissoluble marriage and someone has divorced and then found somebody else and then they come to church and say I want the sacraments Cardinal Serra this week said you have a first marriage that is ratified and consummated now you have a second union of some sort and when these people come forth and we allow them to have communion he says it's a heresy a dangerous schizophrenic pathology you would say what strong statement also very strong but I know I cannot agree with this statement because well what is nice impossible the access to sacraments is live increasing that's a can Lord but I've seen is not only a Christ material but there must be a conference and intentionality there must be circumstances the concept of Christian is a very complex one and therefore cell it needs a discernment case-by-case basis is the situation of Christ in or not but there seems to be this dual track though because we're saying you want to preserve the inter solubility marriage but the the application of communion and how and to whom it is distributed might be another issue over here but ours no it's not another issue and the Venice this man of this woman it's not a personal situation of crisis in and this happens I will they're not in a situation of grave same as this objectively but if it's subjectively that's a problem grave sin implies the personal conference implies intentionality of civil and therefore it needs judgment of a prestress experiences and but not but not a tribunal you don't like the idea of the nullity process the canal or narcissus of differencing of course it can help in certain cases she's not the process but the church always distinguishes between the form in tamil and in the form external and i think to refute the discernment measure pass the concrete person this increasing or not it's a question of say from in tell them that also falls but don't you have an external problem of okay i decide to find a younger wife and i leave my wife and three children and i come to you and i say but but father no in in love with this person doesn't my wife and aren't the wife and children the first wife and children entitled to justice here in this case no spiritual father and director would say he can come to the sacraments but I will tell you another example when I was Bishop a police came to me he said I have such a case that woman which was abandoned by her husband but she now his chronology needed an husband for her children and she prepared in a wonderful way the girl for first communion and now the priests say to me I cannot say on the day of first communion to the girl you can your mother cannot and the mother did all to prepare see that's a different question if somebody leaves his wife from this church of course with a young younger woman that's not speaking to the marriage and whether the first marriage was licit and the second one wasn't that that's a passion and and not speaking to the nullity of the first marriage is it as you first measure can be well it was in this case well it was no positive analogy but nevertheless tell me about this in the canonical process as it as it exists now the nullity process yes there is a first trial and then there is a second here yeah well you don't like the idea that second here you think it's slow this is this is a canonical problem I never interfered about this this is a problem for the channel but your proposal would short change this whole system though it would get around it if you will now their knowledge analogy puzzles can be and it helps in certain cases but it's also cases where analogy is not possible and levels this is a different situation and it whose discretion would it be in your mind as to whether a couple should submit to that nullity process or simply go to the parish priest and say we'd like to come to communion no I would size your parish place but the parish church said try first go to the analogy poses but you would say the parish priest is the person but this is a generality policies for maximum and that the police can sense them to certain upon all answers while still giving them communion first no no this guy's not this guy's not but it's very it's a whole process of discernment which is necessary and people like carbon lab senior now paint Pope in Italy say they can receive the spiritual communion they can receive spiritual way who receives the spiritual communion he's one with Christ but they denied the the physical presence of Christ at the altar yes but his relighted with Christ and in his ignited his price he cannot live in grave sins it would be no question the question really is and I've spoken to a number of people who've been subject to divorce particularly women feel this process which would somehow not give them the justice or the hearing that they desire because again I'll use the example the husband finds a younger woman he marries her leaving the wife and children and the parish priest may say well this man loves this woman they're there in unity they're praying their holy people they give to the church but should they be allowed to the sacraments giving this woman her so now I I would dispute it but your put your proposal by postal service kaity leus and to have to look yourself right areas and syska kind when he leaves his family and because it's a younger woman I would say no it is a feel over now no but allowances cases I see but these are lots of people who come if the first marriage is indissoluble your eminence yeah doesn't the church have an obligation to fully investigate to make sure that that marriage was truly null rather than just allowing it to the subjective judgment of a parish priest who may like this person in that one but doesn't know the full background know so the category section not accept because if marriage is item an image of the Alliance of God is his people and now to start how the scripture how often the people of God abandoned said and also Jesus was to attract the pious people then he substituted himself God went to Circus given a chance and before he left on Easter Eve he gave the church his apostles authority to forgive for not to forgive to bind and rules for analysis this is also signs of mercy it's not only say category of human justice you can apply here that you must church must act according the action of art and the thoughts mercy and the church is sacrament of mercy it means science and instrument of the mercy of course as our Catholic understanding of the church and if God this accent is very the church can do it also this past spring you said as we go into the Senate yes your quote was Francis must now make some changes that are visible with the Synod the great majority of people are expecting some changes in pastoral practices do you stand by that yes people a challenge of people many people I know expect something but it does not say that the Pope passed follow and you would like to see your proposal adopted I put a question as if Pope wanted and I said I do not anticipate the decision of the Synod and of the Holy Father but you would like to see changes you said that the Pope should make this personal energy I would say it would be desirable but it's his decision I will accept his decision your but you're a man you have become the campaign manager for this idea RIT don't manage anything no but I mean you've been cast that way in the public mind does that upset you annoy you know I am a man of the church my whole life I have never sinned tension to say to trust what say if I listen to what the church has to say to me and therefore I had two times spoken now miss Pope do what he thinks about this conference I have struck I did not ask him for solution because it would not say to do ask the Pope directly I must respect to freedom and the authority of the Pope but I want to know whether he is he agrees that they speak about the problem huh this I wanted if the Pope had said to me wrong do not touch this is better I would say so he encouraged the conversation and conversationally and casually wanted to debate but he didn't bless the idea or say I love I did not detailed very say what I will find et taught wanted he gave me all freedom but it was my responsibility and I spoken with several people since the Korea which are in charge of this question and I prayed about to say I was absolutely the peace and this is a promise about a very important entirety mate in peace with almost is a text and usual sometimes very polemical attacks without having no world listening what do you think of those books I all those books that came out with all the other Cardinal but I would say I think I have a column okay the right what he wants of course but many rights directly against me I think it would be convenient it would be eternity to come first to speak the high Sparrow log this did not happen and this possibility point for me sisty Havel I think it's not no it's not good the duels this way and said you see publish sip book that's not the good spirit do you see your transition here it seemed early on during the Synod after the Synod really up until about December or January the Holy Father in all of his interviews he seemed to be very supportive of your proposal making those same arguments in South now something has happened he now seems to be mm turning away questioning and putting distance between your proposal and himself I do not know I did not speak with him and he could not speak with me even but what what are you hearing well no piece of faith it's really totally free I do not know Massa Massa do what he wants I do not know as you look at the situation now as you see the African bishops the Polish bishops the United States bishops saying there shouldn't be a change in either practice or doctrine you people writing signing petitions begging the church fathers not to make any changes are you still confident that that might happen well it's one side but to have many petitions also in thousands of cents and sell ain't know many couples saying they know many bishops who are more on my side if you think there's more on your side now I do not know I do not know and I my suggestion is to find now a formula where as a great majority can appeal are you working on that formula now I know I've known member in no diastole you know organizations it was my proposal to say we just not the 1p part is defeated one is victors this is not the very of us you know do you foresee the Holy Father appointing you a Senate father tonight or not you know what about the father see I did not speak BC me did not tell me that to be member of the Synod is not only a pleasure and so forth if the Pope once I come and if he does not want me here you want another one your eminence I know you brought this proposal forward and and have have submitted it to the body bishops and you have really been out advertising it and trying to expose people to your proposal all over the world do you feel any responsibility for the phenomena that I people have written to me about priests particularly of divorced and remarried couples gay couples presenting themselves after Mass and saying we want communion you should allow us to have communion this is clearly what the Pope wants do you feel any personal responsibility for that phenomenon well it's a misunderstanding every first of all it was aggression and that puts aggression to open the debate it's not a proposal and therefore of course now couple can come with one Holy Communion I spoke about a penitential process a penitential way it needs time but there's already a penitential process I mean there's already the canonical process of knowledge yes yeah and it's a nullity positions one thing I'm not the kindest process of finality this is one serious but happen and so this is another process isn't now another process but if people when they have the statement of knowledge they can come to Holy Communion but what you do understand when a churchman like yourself a theologian an esteemed international figure a Coryell official says here is my proposal and the Pope agrees with me did not say that that does cause some well you did I mean you did say and the quote is clearly this is what he wants and the Pope has approved of my proposal it is not approved by a proposal if the Pope wondered that I put the question I'm hostile well in a general way a month before all the Cardinals he expressed his satisfaction with my talk but not the end of not in the special question other I I would not say he posted suppose a proposal no no no well that was Cardinal Walter Kasper to react to the interview and what we all heard I am joined from new york by canon lawyer and priest of that archdiocese father gerald Murray and with me on set here in DC is the editor of the Catholic thing dot org Robert Royal Robert thanks for being here channel and thank you both for being here I want to jump right into this first of all give me your takeaway impression as you watch that did it change your opinion of Cardinal Kasper in any way or his proposal Robert royal I'm very surprised I mean I give you great credit Raymond you honed in on the the pressure points at every stage of that interview and I think we have to give him a little bit of credit because after all back in February of 2014 the Pope invited him to address the bishops core I remember that's how this whole process got started of resurrecting this this question of communion for the divorced and remarried and afterwards the Pope said I heard this lecture that you gave and I thought of it and I read your book and I reminded me of how wonderful it is when you do theology on your knees you know so there was a kind of a tacit endorsement now it's clear that something has happened yes he seemed to be very confident I was over at the Synod in October as you know he was giving a lot of interviews he seemed to be very very confident about where things were going even dismissing the Africans we remember right that interview with Edward pentene are sometimes colleague here there's a different tone here and he seems to be parsing this out finer and finer and finer so I don't know it seems to me that something in Rome has changed and he's trying to backpedal you know there's a little backpedaling going on father Jerry Murray would acceptance of the Kasper proposal necessitate if you will the the throwing the nullity process the annulment process aside since you're subjectively leaving it in the hands of the parish priest to make the decision whether people could come to full communion or not it's a big problem to say that now couples who are in invalid marriages can simply go to the parish priests and if they fit the criteria the cardinal caste or has established that the parish priest can put them through some kind of process of penance and then they can receive communion this is creating a parallel really unregulated and I would say not at all doctrinally supported the way of dealing with the question of adulterers second marriages yes it would be a big problem and quite frankly I don't see where the Cardinal finds justification for it I noted in the interview that he said we have to apply the words to Jesus to concrete situations right but then a little bit later he said you can't deduce from a doctrine a practical concrete discipline but when the Lord said if you divorce your wife and marry another you commit adultery very clear and the way you apply it is say if you're in an adulterous second marriage you can't receive communion that practice is directly deduced and I think scripturally the only deduction you can make no it does it I mean it does put the annulment process on ice really yeah I think that this is to put it in secular terms I'm not going to try to compete with a canon lawyer here but this is sort of like saying you either have to go on on your computer and pay a $15.00 fine with your credit card or go through a judicial process down at the Town Hall I mean no one is gonna go through the process any longer it's gonna be simply a quick get out of jail free father Jerry I want to get into this Robert I want you to respond as well the Cardinal made mention of grave sin and he said it's complexed and he said objectively these couples who divorce and remarried they're in grave sin but not personally your reaction canonically does that wash this is a big problem because he's confusing a subjective culpability for sin am I responsible for my bad actions and then the nature of the actions in and of themselves and what the Church teaches about adulteress second unions is that they are objectively a grave offense and they contradict the nature of married love and the nature of indissoluble marriage so to say that for instance someone who gets divorced from a valid Catholic marriage and then civilly remarried that and then they're living in this adulterous second Union well maybe they're subjectively innocent that's a presumption the the common presumption is people who knowingly enter into adultery know what they're doing it's not an accident but it has no bearing on the objective violation of the law and the scandal that's given cuz you have to also remember sin is not simply a personal matter it affects the community and it does give scandal the incident that you spoke about it with him about a man who leaves his wife to marry younger woman you know this is precisely why the law of God has this consistency and and it's completely understandable we should never encourage people to do bad behavior by condoning it in some cases and then they'll apply whenever they want you know it's a complicated proposal because as you start picking at it and looking at it it almost dissolves in your hands the Cardinal made mention of Benedict the sixteenth something I need to get some clarity on and he says about Benedict the sixteenth urged couples in irregular Union to get spiritual or make a spiritual communion Robert royal does that then necessitate that you're in full communion with the church or does it imply that well let me say I'm trying to understand these various proposals that he puts forward and trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and I just see logical inconsistencies in this because essentially what he's saying against all logic is that the spiritual communion essentially is holy communion is the same thing you're already in full spiritual union with God and I don't know of any theologian who would ever claim such a thing is this dangerous territory father Jerry Murray yes it is because a spiritual communion is the expression of the wish to be united to Christ and those who are conscious that they're in a state of mortal sin of whatever sword they can have that desire they just have to go the next step which is to be absolved of their sins and confession and then not to return to that life of sin and this is the problem with adultery the church says that if you are in a sin valid second marriage and for the good of the children you can't split up then you can live as brother and sister as long as you avoid adulterous activity the church is willing to grant absolution and then you can receive communion so there is a lot of confusion here and it's not helpful because it's distracting from the Word of God the Word of God is clear and there's a process that exists I think a lot of people don't understand the nullity process the so called annulment process you know yes it's rigid yes there are criteria and you must go through interviews and it takes a long time because you're talking about a permanent indissoluble marriage that the church officially comes down and says this is null it was null from the beginning that is a major disruption it's a major pronouncement and I think to kind of just say well just visit the parish priest and you know well he seems to distinguish then he doesn't want to touch the nullity process but if it be as I say it's an end run yeah it's an end run once once this becomes an accepted practice it's going to be hard to see how people are going to go through but you know there's a reason why even in secular law you have you have rules you have rules of evidence you take you try to get down to the truth and that's so that you can be fair to all the people who are involved it's not simply we're gonna forget about what happened and we'll go forward from here because that doesn't really solve but the problem that you have right now these hard cases that he brings forward I mean if they tug at all our heartstrings probably all of us have family members who may be in difficult circumstances as to given the way that the world is this these days with 50 percent divorce rate but those people who in these hard cases can go to the the tribunals what what this seems to all cry out for what I believe the Pope is moving towards is to streamline that annulment process and and perhaps that's what this will all end up producing for the jury Mary your take well let's talk about that annulment is the declaration that there was no marriage right and Cardinal caster's not pretending that everyone who gets a civil divorce was never really married in the church that goes against logic we believe that people can act rationally and make the decision and in law we presume any marriage contracted in the church is valid well Cardinal Kasper is really asking for his people who believe their first marriage was valid should be granted the right to receive Communion if they're in a second invalid Union that's it one of two things then has to be established one that there really is no adultery because basically you know he doesn't want to call people who are invalid second marriages adulterers he thinks that's too harsh or you can say adultery is no longer a mortal sins so we can tolerate it as kind of an imperfect form of marriage this is out of the universe of Catholic thinking we have to be very clear if we as rational creatures approach the Lord's sacraments and we do it knowingly then we receive the sacrament and the sacrament benefits us in this world you get a sacrament doesn't work out well let's try another one let's do this and that this is inconsistent and really there are a lot of contradictions in this proposal Cardinal Burke Cardinal Serra they've said this quite clearly the Catholic Church cannot separate itself from the clear Word of God Robert what do you make of the the Cardinals Casper's insistence that he was very wounded by the books that Cardinal kuffara Cardinal Burke and others wrote critiquing his proposal really taking it apart both historically theologically canonically in other words well he may be feeling it more now that he doesn't I I get the impression that there isn't the Vatican backing initially was or he thought there initially was for him there but I don't know that you know there's an a lot of cross-cutting there there was a lot of on the part of not only a Cardinal Kasper but others sort of mocking of people who wanted to be more in tune and more in continuity with what has been the constant teaching of the church and the Catholic Church at least going back 2,000 years and it seemed to me that if there was if the process of not speaking to others first did occur it began with him and some of the people on that side who just sort of affirm this stuff and and mocked Africans poles conservative Germans all those who didn't seem to want to get onboard with us and the problem I foresee with all of this now is it's already confused we were starting to already read stories about people saying that well we know what the Holy Father wants and my local priest thinks he already knows what the Holy Father wants so this confusion that he's introduced and that you ask him in the interview do you feel some responsibility for that well he seems to think others have responsibility toward him but he's created a situation that I think even if the Synod holds the line in in the fall is going to be a very neurologic time for the Catholic Church for years father Jerry Maria well I'm gonna give you the last word and then maybe a quick one for Robert the disavowal of the papal endorsement for this plan what does that tell you and yet Cardinal Kasper is resolute that he has a majority or feels many Cardinals and bishops support his proposal what is that all about well look there's campaigning going on here obviously he's trying to stir up people to embrace his proposal but again I'm very bewildered because he said well in the end when the synod decision is made by the pope he'll abide by it but in 1994 pope john paul ii issued a document about this very question and said it's impossible now he obviously didn't submit to that so I would say to him on what principle are we acting here is it the will that you have to see this proposal endorsed and you're going to keep pushing it and when it wasn't endorsed twenty years ago you kept pushing it you know I he says he wants a frank debate and then he says when people publish books they should have come to him privately I think there's a lot of confusion in his approach and I have to say answer the critics Cardinal cavora said what about the first marriage and I really haven't heard an answer to that from Cardinal Kasper he needs to tell us is that first marriage still in existence because if it is his proposal is shot down hmm we will leave it there we're out of time Robert Royal father Jerry Murray we will catch up with you all in the days ahead you can read both Robert and father Jerry's columns and commentary at the Catholic thing dot org remember we will share part two of my interview with Cardinal Kasper and his reaction to some of his Vatican colleagues the German Cardinals and more on our next show you will not want to miss that when we return they're striving to bring beauty and peace to a world star for both and topping the classical charts in the process for the cash in Folsom of the monks of Norcia talk about their new CD Benedicta and how his personal struggles have deepened his mission when the world over live continues stay right there I love music and music for the monastic life is an essential part of our prayer so chant is part and part of the air we breathe and since we do it so often it comes naturally after a few decades now once again Raymond Arroyo welcome back to the world over live after nearly 200 year absence chant has returned to a small but historic monastery in the Umbrian hills of Italy a group of Benedictine monks founded a community in the town of norsu the birthplace of st. Benedict they did so in 1998 once again some prayers filled the Basilica of Saint Benedict now the monks along with De Montfort music are allowing the world to enter their monastery they've released a new CD called Benedicta Marian chant from Norcia I sat down earlier this week with the prior and founder of the monks of Norcia father Kashian folsom to talk about the new CD the importance of chant and what it is meant to him personally father tell me about the founding of this Benedictine community in 1998 well I asked permission of my abbot in 1995 he was newly elected and I thought for sure he would say no and much my surprise he said yes but it took three years for actually to happen and all sorts of obstacles and so obviously was the will of God otherwise it wouldn't have happened where were you before that you were in you were in a community and you had a music background I do of sorts finishes my first year of college I studied voice at Indiana University the music school there but I transferred to the seminary in my second year so it wasn't very long training well it's a prestigious remote oh yeah yeah and what of that did you take with you into your monastic life well the music background certainly because in the seminary I was always a cantor in the monastery I've been choir master in at my whole monastery of st. mine Road and also in founding the new community I was the choir master for many years into London monk who'd come along to take over the I was always a cantor and how did you end up at norcia of all places well yes it's the birthplace of st. Benedict Rock is important and there hadn't been a monastery there for almost 200 years that was divine providence - we started in Rome and the intention was to remain in Rome this new monastery but in the year 2000 the Abbot primate had a heart attack and resigned and he was the one who who helped found us and so we were open for new possibilities and the Archbishop of Spoleto North requested that we transfer to the north and of course there are many ups and downs in that process sure we we finally finally made it there at the end of the Jubilee year and that the Basilica of st. Benedict there a chant has been heard in those walls for 400 hundred thousand years conservative wait yes what is it like to have been the founding member that really restored and brought this worship of God back to the monastery there well for many years we because the community was very small we arrived in order with three people now we're 18 but we prayed in the crypt of the church that which is actually the birthplace of Samantha and you couldn't perhaps it's silly to say so but you could feel that those walls had been impregnated with prayer for centuries and centuries but now because we're too big we've moved upstairs to the to the main church is that where you all record it Benedicta yes and the acoustics are splendid so if it sounds good it's hopefully because the monks sing well but also because the acoustics look I was telling you before we started I have a lot of chant in my collection at home many of them sound overproduced almost like performances this is something other why do you think it has a distinctive sound and a quality that people can't quite put their finger on but they're drawn to it no matter who they are Catholic or otherwise well maybe for a couple of reasons the monks believe what they're singing so that that's communicated and they're young and you can hear that in the voices to my voice by now is old and tired so we have young people who have beautiful color in their voices and a couple of the monks have lots of musical background even before they came to them really so that helps true and you can hear that now you all are known if you're known for anything so far for your beer we're glad we're known for them yeah you are there and you've got this micro brewery that has become legendary I know people here in the United States who make trips over to buy it what is it about that beer who started this and is that part of your ministry your mission the beer is in the Trappist Belgian tradition so we learned from the Trappist monks in Belgium and they have century-old tradition of beer making we were looking for a work that the community could do that would be infom producing so the original idea was we need to make a living right but it has proved to be much more than that because beer good beer especially is a bridge between the monks and the rest of the world so even if people have no faith and if they like beer and there's something that brings and to the monastery and then we can start a conversation and pretty soon they're talking about more serious things and that has happened over and over and over so they come for the beer but they stay for the mass and the chant and the rest of it absolutely it's a real it's a tool of evangelization what's the connection between the beer and the approach and appeal of that and this new CD in your mind is their connection well they're both initiatives that the monks have made that are somewhat out of the ordinary it shows a certain that we're willing to take risks and we're willing to do new things and there's lots of energy and activity and this is they're both expressions of that who chose this particular selection of music these are marian songs these are an anta phones and prayers and this is something you do eight times a day we should say this is not something you just did because the producers came into town in fact I heard from one of your producers you all would record and then you just keep going because it was time for prayer actually the selections were made by two of the monks who have musical background that is the present choir master father basil and the previous choir master brother Ignatius and they studied they did research on the the history of these particular chat pieces and father basil chose them with a view to highlighting different moments in the life of Mary so it's an organized in a kind of chronological way starting from the Immaculate Conception to the the crowning of Mary as Queen of Heaven it did not escape my ear or eye that you you will say the extraordinary form of the mass the old right you hear this beautiful Latin sung on the CD is there a message here as well about sakra leti and the connection to these long-held traditions and the importance of maintaining them yes the old right or the true vertical tradition of the church for us is a patrimony not a museum piece but something that's alive and it draws young people and because of the the sacral tea that is it's about God it's not about us you see and and that's powerful and that draws people and they're drawn to what do you think you know many many people will say and you read this all the time all you've got that baroque language and all those old vestments and the bells and it goes all I know that's such that's a repellent to young the young people that you know they do not want to see that come and say check it out it's not repellent to young people well your monasteries overflowing with young guys what's the average age 33 33 in fact I'm the old guy I have listened very closely over the last few days to the whole CD repeatedly you are featured on a number at the beginning of some of these chants in solos I was part of the hoi polloi and the whole community in singing but it's it's very it's a great thing for me to pass on that role of solo singing to the a to the younger bucks watch it happening GPU a banana or another school and exciting was was this something important for you to do to have it memorialized to have it there we don't think about memorializing ourselves really it's just an expression of what we do that we wanted to share with our friends but it's heartfelt I mean there's something different here it and and I think you hit upon it this is the prayer that you all naturally do this isn't a faked performance or something choreographed and you all understand what you're singing and that really comes through to the listener okay great particularly your solo at the beginning I think it's the second or third track it's early on in there on in the recording you don't know where it is I do and there is something urgent there I know you've been struggling recently with cancer has that changed the way you pray well I that's a question I've had cancer twice and thanks be to God it's in remission see the dragon is sleeping but it's a chronic disease that can come back any time I changes the way I look at the world so sure I think more of the last things that I thought before and much of our liturgical music is about the last things you know so it gives you a perspective of divine realities that perhaps you need suffering in order to understand those things mm-hmm what would you say to those who are struggling some find such solace in this music have found such peace in it is it a restorative for you as well oh absolutely but I would put in more general sense not just this CD but in the Old Testament remember that Saul had these fits of madness from time to time and when he did so David would play the harp for him and he would calm down well if I go into Vespers for example kind of agitated and preoccupied lots of about lots of things by the time Vespers is over with the waves of Samedi then I finally calm down and so it brings peace certainly I experienced that practically every day you've said that this is like breathing and that there's so much pollution in the world and that this is almost a curative I I've often thought when I've heard communities / in prayer there is a vibration a physical time very true that is all I think evil has a vibration as well it's true do you see this as a needed needed presence in the world physically as well as otherwise we are desperately needing of these things and I think monasteries can provide little oases of a good sense and faith and beauty in a world that's gone mad mm-hmm what do you hope will be the reaction in the listener no matter who picks this up well I think they would they would perceive the beauty of it and beauty is a wonderful way of bringing people to God and that's one thing the beauty and the peace of it it's something peaceful it's it's a it can it can settle there they're agitated and souls so if if beauty and peace can be the results that's really wonderful Benedicta Marian chant from Norcia by the Benedictine monks of norcia is available now at music outlets everywhere they are number one on iTunes classical chart go to de Montfort music dot-com for more information and if you click on the link to the monks of Norcia website you can purchase a copy there and help support the monks in their work until next week the show continues on Facebook and Twitter like me on Facebook follow me on Twitter the links are at Raymond Arroyo dot-com so what did you think of the interview with Cardinal Kasper use hashtag world over and tell me I'm on Twitter at Raymond Arroyo and don't miss next week part 2 of my exclusive interview with Cardinal Walter Kasper and I'll be talking to Kentucky senator and presidential candidate Rand Paul until next time we'll be scouting the world over for all that is seen and unseen on that with a staff and crew of EWTN news thanks for watching I'm Raymond Arroyo from Washington DC I know

Channel: EWTN

Views: 17,032

Rating: 4.6756759 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television

Id: cA76iHWw8BA

Length: 58min 52sec (3532 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 05 2015