Women in Ministry - Prof Craig Keener

are women allowed to be in ministry or are they allowed to pay tuition in seminary or college or whatever anyway so we're going to look at what Paul teaches because that's that's what is most debated when we talk about these things some argue that the historic view of the church forbids women's ordination but the historic view isn't always the right view for example often justification by faith was was neglected before Luther much of church history doubt in anti-semitism from the Gentile world so also we have to ask when we're looking at the history of the church which part of the church so while dense Ian's a pre Luther group that advocated justification by faith in returning to Scripture welcomed both genders to minister and of course by the 19th century you have an avalanche of this as God's Spirit is being poured out you have a number of people probably one Salvation Army's familiar right yeah the cofounders the Salvation Army argued for this and so on William and Catherine Booth the historic reason that was traditionally given for rejecting women's ministry was that women were considered ontologically inferior to men so if we reject the reason then we probably ought to reject the conclusion to part of the problem is the different texts in the Bible seem to point in different directions some will oppose women's ministry see it as part of a larger agenda to reject Scripture and conform the church to the world but then there are some other groups Wesley and holiness and Pentecostal groups began affirming women's ministry in the eighteen hundreds well Pentecostals in the early 1900s based on Scripture although there are some groups that actually affirmed women in ministry and the early 1900's that now don't do it because they say well liberals do that we're not going to that anymore Bible believing Christians on either side of the issue often read only certain texts while ignoring others so we're going to look at its some of the biblical evidence where does the biblical evidence point well arguments that can be used in support of women in ministry you have women prophets which include Miriam in Exodus 15 Hulda Deborah Isaiah's wife Anna the prophetess in Luke chapter 2 Phillips daughters and then in Acts chapter 2 you have a woman who's not just a prophetess but she's also the judge over all of Israel and you have a woman apostle Junia and women is Paul's fellow workers and ministers we have to look at those in more detail but that's the summary of some of what we have for women and leadership in the Bible against women in ministry you have a couple texts so if we're just deciding it by the percentage of text it's really those who support women in ministry who have more texts than those who oppose women's ministry and so it's those who oppose women's ministry who are liberal no but using the same method of saying no you're liberal if you don't agree with this well it can be turned both directions can we account for the different views within Paul's own writings well there are possible ways to relate the two sides one view is that Paul and the Bible contradict themselves I don't like that idea very much but some people hold that view the other approaches though were held by people who genuinely believed in the Bible one is that Paul was against women's ministry in general but allowed exceptions in which case we should allow exceptions today as well another is that Paul was for women's ministry in general but limited it for exceptional situations like particular cultural situations and that's what I'm going to be arguing for one other approach that's often taken the days the Paul allowed many kinds of ministry for women but for bad other so most advocates of this approach allowed women to preach and teach counsel and do everything except be senior pastor I was in a public dialogue with a friend who supports this position and he was saying well I believe women can do anything except teach the Bible from behind the pulpit and and I said so you're saying women can be prophets or apostles in the Bible but they they can't they can't teach the Bible he says yeah yeah from behind a pope but they can't do it and and and I said you think that's consistent with these other texts she said well that's what first Timothy 2 says I said first Timothy 2 doesn't say anything about a pulpit they didn't have pulpits in first century house churches so I wasn't sure where he was getting that or senior pastor for that matter given the fact that house churches normally would seat only like 40 or 50 people but anyway the problem is that first Timothy 2 doesn't say she can't be senior pastor first Timothy 2 says she has to be quiet in church and not teach or at least that's one interpretation of it and it seems inconsistent that she she can't teach in a house church but she can be an apostle or a prophet or even have authority over all of Israel like Deborah did the Bible has a lot of prophet Isis I ran through these earlier but now in some more detail Miriam was a prophetess who led all of Israel and worship and Exodus 15 Hulda was the most prominent prophetic figure in this part of Josiah's reign I mean later on you have Jeremiah but Jeremiah was still too young at this point so in 2nd 2nd Kings 22 and 23 King Josiah sends 2 halda to hear the word of the Lord for the nation the same way that a century earlier the righteous King Hezekiah had sent to the prophet Isaiah for the word for the nation Deborah she's one of the few judges that we don't have any dirt on that she didn't really mess up somewhere and she's one of the only judges who is also a prophetic leader you have Samuel and Deborah so she's like 50% of the judges the prophetic judges are the closest equivalent we have in the Old Testament to New Testament apostles did Deborah not communicate God's Word with authority I was I was being interviewed by somebody for my Bible background commentary on the radio like 20 years ago or something maybe 25 years ago whatever and the person was saying what about these people who say that women could be ministers or women can have authority over men I mean where do you get that I mean where's that in the Bible it I said what about Deborah there was a moment of silence you say oh yeah that's true Luke acts tends to pair both genders so we have Simeon and Anna as prophetic figures in Luke chapter 2 agamous and Philips four daughters in Acts chapter 21 and you have already in Joel chapter 2 God promises that someday when He pours out the Spirit your sons and daughters will prophesy and then he reaffirms that down below when he's talking about the servants your male and female servants or both prophesy and Joel's prophecy it breaks class barriers between slave and free it breaks gender barriers and the all flesh ultimately is going to break ethnic barriers as well and Peter quotes that in the day of Pentecost he probably doesn't recognize all the implications actually he certainly doesn't recognize the ethnic implications because the Holy Spirit has to really get his attention for those in Acts chapter 10 but I think it's no coincidence that the this the places where we see women most often assuming ministry in the history of the church has been during outpourings of the Spirit and times of revival that's that's been true at leasts well it was happening the 1700s in the Wesleyan revival especially in the 1800s and on other examples Isaiah's wife is said to be a prophetess and you have others who aren't called prophetess as' but they heard from God like Rebecca it would have really saved everybody a lot of trouble if Isaac could listen to Rebecca early on for what she heard from the Lord but anyway Paul himself acknowledges that women may and do pray in prophesy in church so long as their heads are covered the head covering is another issue that we might talk about if we have time but the important thing for the main subject tonight is that women were praying and prophesying in Paul's churches too now if you're prophesying you're speaking of the word of the Lord so apparently women can speak the word of the Lord well some objections that that could be raised there were more men prophets than women and that's true but there were women and we don't want to explain those away and given the culture actually it's the women who were surprising rather than the men and there was never a quota that excluded women and as we'll see later if we wanted to make quotas that exclude those who were minorities that would exclude all of us Gentiles from ministry it would also exclude men from ministry based in Romans 16 a passage in which more women are commended for ministry than men and and so on some say well teaching is higher in rank than prophecy so women can prophesy but they're not allowed to teach but actually when Paul ranks gifts he says first apostles second prophets third teachers in first Corinthians 12 28 plus if you're saying well women are allowed to prophesy but not allowed to teach it seems like what you're saying is women can speak the word of the Lord as long as they don't use the Bible which seems to me kind of an interesting argument given all the prophetess ISKCON which is actually prophecy you take the whole Bible together you know the Old Testament being three quarters of it then the most common ministry in the Bible actually was prophecy so can we possibly exclude women from proclaiming God's message or at least sometimes having authority in doing it like in the case of Deborah where the Hebrew actually makes a point judges chapter 4 and verse 4 saying she was a woman judge a woman prop yeah a woman judge which draws attention of the fact that this was unusual but no other comment is made about it like there was something wrong with it greet Andronicus and Junia my relatives who have been in prison with me they're outstanding among the Apostles Romans 16 7 some have tried to argue that Junia was actually a contraction for the male name Junio knows there's problem with that in that this contraction is nowhere attested anywhere in ancient literature there's another problem with that in that well certain kinds of names you could contract them but Junya and Juliana's are Roman names and they don't contract the way you contract Greek names and so it's actually impossible to turn this into a male name Junia is clearly a woman and there's no way around that now there is a legitimate grammatical argument about whether he's saying they were outstanding apostles or he's saying the Apostles really like them the majority of scholars say no they were outstanding apostles and one reason for that grammatically you can you can actually make I think the argument either way but Paul nowhere else appeals to the opinion of the Apostles to evaluate somebody but he does often speak of other people as apostles in the Gospels and in acts apart from Acts 14 the term apostle normally applied to the twelve but in Paul's writings it's used much more broadly for example first Corinthians 15 verses 5 to 7 you have Jesus appearing after the resurrection to the twelve and then to some others and then to all the apostles in Galatians 1:19 gems the brother of Jesus is an apostle also Silas and Timothy are called apostles and Paul himself is called an apostle even though he wasn't one of the twelve so Paul uses the the title more broadly and in acts 14 when Luke makes an exception he makes it for Paul and Barnabas as apostles so the most natural way to take this is the cheese an apostle alongside in dronicus and nowhere does Paul limit the meaning of apostles except where he specifically says this is an apostle of the churches he he normally when he just as apostles he means these are people who are commissioned directly by the Lord in doing groundbreaking evangelism can women be apostles and prophets but not pastors or teachers Paul usually lists apostles higher especially when it ranks them but some object well okay women could be apostles or prophets I have a friend who conceded that that said yep but apostles and prophets aren't for today that was his way around it but anyway I I don't hold that view but I don't define an apostle quite the way he did anyway I see it more today in terms of like Paul's broader definition of people doing groundbreaking evangelism but my response is when he says well we have no women named as pastors in the New Testament you never a pastor so and so is is a woman's title my response to that is you don't have any men named as pastor so-and-so in the New Testament either so it's not a very good argument but those whom you might guess would have been pastors that's not given to them as a title you can infer it but if you've been inferred for them why not infer it also for the women we're performing the same roles the men did outnumber the women but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't include the women the two most common terms that Paul uses for his fellow ministers or sooner Goss fellow worker and the Econo which can mean anything from servant to minister to agent of going between connecting whatever diakonos our servant sometimes means deacon whatever a deacon was in the first century which is quite debated but wherever else we can determine its meaning Paul uses it for his own ministry or that of his colleagues usually as traveling companions who would have normally been male but he applies that to Phoebe in Romans chapter 16 and verse verses 1 and 2 and Phoebe actually may have been the first expositor of Paul's letter to the Romans because when Paul sent his letter to the Romans he sent it by means of Phoebe he commends Phoebe normally if somebody had questions about a letter that was sent they would ask the person who delivered the letter who was thought to have first-hand information from the sender Paul's language of son Argos fellow worker often applied to his male fellow workers he also applies it to Prisca and Aquila in Romans chapter 16 verses 3 & 4 husband wife team he actually mentions the New Testament in general mentions Priscilla before her husband twice as often as it mentions the husband before Priscilla even though it was customary in antiquity to mention the husband first unless the wife was of higher status of some sort and since Paul is speaking in in light of the church and Paul wasn't very much into social status she may have been the more prominent agent in ministry in any case Paul commends their ministry he commends them as house church leaders and we know from Acts that they team taught Apollo's so if the very least your women professors are allowed to give you private instruction Romans 16 greets twice as many men as women but in this list Paul commands twice as many women as men so the diaconis the the fellow workers the Apostle and then others who worked very hard in the Lord if even in the first century women outnumber men two to one in Rome perhaps we should draw a general principle from the text in which case we should ordain women four times as often as men how many of you think that's a good idea but that's that's just joking but it's it's showing how people are not consistent and how they they handle the the different texts also Paul mentions Euodia and san tika who labored together with them in ministry in Philippi in Philippians chapter 4 now notice that the two places where Paul is commanding his fellow ministers so he he may have this general principle over here some texts that exclude women from ministry but over here in practice he allows it for certain women and where do we find Paul doing that particularly it's in Rome and in Philippi or his commanding the women in their ministries Roman Philippi were two of the most gender progressive locations in the empire is it possible that women were more apt to pursue callings from God in settings that were more likely to welcome their callings in which case in cultures where women have more opportunities we might expect more women to go into ministry today but what do we do with the two texts that many take to prohibit women from ministry and they actually prohibit far more first corinthians 14 verses 34 and 35 women should remain silent in the churches they're not allowed to speak so and the same is true in in first Timothy chapter 2 verses 11 and 12 a woman should learn in quietness and full submission I don't allow a woman to teach and there's a debate about the grammar or whether it's teach in such a way as to have her to usurp Authority or just she's not allowed to teach but in any case it says she has to be silent how many of you in your churches do you allow women to to participate in congregational singing y'all are liberal I'm leaving it says they have to be silent so nobody well I shouldn't say nobody nobody no churches that I know of actually practiced this fully everybody has to take something into account so if we're going to take something into account let's figure out what the situation was that Paul is addressing and take that into account almost nobody today practices it fully even those who are most adamantly opposed to women's ministry of various sports sorts usually allow them to sing in the choir and were there their seat and sometimes they even let them make announcements but Paul requires silence how does that fit I mean this is 1st Corinthians chapter 14 who here is good with math good how many chapters in first Corinthians come before chapter 14 you'll be excellent very good so chances are the Corinthians would have already heard read to them first Corinthians chapter 11 where women are allowed to pray and prophesy so how can Paul mean they have to keep silence he can't be referring to all kinds of silence because if he were well I know maybe they lip sync when they pray and prophesy but you simply quote first Corinthians 14 is excluding women from preaching as if you've solved it by quoting this verse because it can only be referring to a particular kind of silence and we're gonna have to figure out what that is actually talking about so the various approaches in 1st Corinthians chapter 14 one approach to say that Paul couldn't have written both kinds of texts 1st Corinthians 14 verses 34 and 35 was an interpolation it was outed by a leader scribe and Gordon fee and I went back and forth on this and he has a fairly good argument but I'm not persuaded by that argument that's one of the arguments and it's held by a number of scholars another says that it has to do with with women yelling questions from the church balcony based on the idea that women in synagogues were segregated from men and women were up in the balconies that doesn't fit the usual view of synagogue architecture it's actually somewhat debated right now but it wouldn't matter anyway because by this period the church met in homes so I don't know if any of you have heard this this view I heard this early in my Christian life but it doesn't fit the architecture of homes otherwise she'd have to be up on the roof bending over the impluvium in the atrium and yelling questions down they didn't have balconies in the in the homes that they could that would have worked other views some say that Paul was prohibiting them from praying publicly and tongues are prophesying but earlier in the letter he allows women to pray and prophesy so it's probably not that one view that's caught on fairly widely today is that women aren't allowed to judge prophecy but all who prophesy are invited to judge so that doesn't quite fit but at least they're looking at something somewhere in the context some say that it means the women can't teach the Bible from the pulpit but that's the least defensible position because teaching is not part of this context and the Corinthians couldn't flip over to first Timothy chapter 2 which hadn't been written yet and if it had even if it had been it wasn't in their Bible yet so let's look at the text if Paul can't be mandating all kinds of silence and we know that because earlier he allows women to pray and prophesy but this is a letter to the Corinthians and presumably they knew what he was talking about what situation he was addressing for us to be able to infer it though you look at the text and he says they're not allowed to speak but then he says if they want to inquire about something they should ask their husbands at home and then he goes on further it's disgraceful for them to speak so it seems to have something to do with them asking questions they need to ask their questions at home I noticed that a long time ago but I couldn't understand what that really had to do with church I mean why would somebody be asking questions in church until one day I was reading through Plutarch's essay on questions or sorry on lectures and I realized oh it was customary in ancient lecture settings to ask questions interrupt the lecturer with questions and and once I started thinking about it yeah is true in Jewish lecture settings it was true in in Greek and Roman lecture settings sometimes people did it to try to make the lecturer look bad but often it was just you know trying to learn more depending on who was asking the question but the one kind of question that was considered particularly rude was unlearned questions so you didn't want to interrupt with a question that would show you were unlearned otherwise the speaker would say ah you didn't do your homework you didn't read such and such a passage and you would slide under your seat right so at least that's what happens in class when somebody doesn't do their homework house churches generally couldn't hold more than 40 or 50 people so they would be fairly small lecture settings and it would be pretty common probably for people to ask questions but the unlearned questions were considered rude why would the women have been the ones to have been asking unlearned questions more often it seems to me we have two alternatives with this either it's it's it's a genetic problem in which case you know men have a Y chromosome women have only X chromosomes and so it must be something inherent in the Y chromosome that makes men better able to teach the Bible if if it's a genetic issue or it could be an environmental issue maybe women were less educated than men well what do we know from antiquity where women less educated than men yes definitely even in upper class homes women were rarely educated beyond 14 years of age so they could go to secondary level but not tertiary level but for most people you know you know they didn't get any education and in Jewish circles which are more more relevant to the study of the Torah boys were raised to recite the Torah they could I mean they could learn in writing often they would learn orally but either way boys were taught to recite the Torah the girls were not there were a few very educated women in antiquity from the upper classes there were even a handful of woman philosophers but it would be look like five percent of all the numbers that we have and barely any of them were teachers of men and in rhetoric which was the more popular advanced discipline that was even even fewer than that women could attend synagogue so they could they could learn some things but they weren't allowed to study the Torah in depth oh I shouldn't say they weren't allowed they weren't they weren't taught the Torah in depth there was an exception in the late 2nd century Berea she was the wife of rabbi my heir and the daughter of a rabbi and she was really smart especially in the earliest sources in domestic Holika but most of the other rabbis wouldn't listen to her because she was a woman boys were taught to recite the Torah girls were not I I know I've only one rabbi in the ancient world who actually taught women in the role of disciples does anybody know the name of the rabbi Jesus yeah Luke chapter 10 verses 38 to 42 Mary is sitting at his feet taking the posture of a disciple much the consternation of her sister not because she's against Mary learning but because she needs help in the kitchen which was the traditional maternal role but Mary sitting at Jesus feet is taking the posture of a disciple we we know that from Mission about 1 1 but we especially know it from Luke's own usage because the only other place Luke uses that expression is next 20 to 3 where Paul was trained by sitting at the feet of Gamaliel so Mary's taking the same role and a disciple was somebody who would learn and ideally if they went far enough with it they could they could teach Paul gives short range and long range solutions short range solutions stop asking disruptive questions in church because you're unlearned but the long range solution is stop being unlearned when he says ask your husband's at home now that may not sound very progressive to us but we need to keep in mind a couple things first of all the vast majority of women over the age of 18 did have husbands there was actually a shortage of of women in that society because the girl babies were thrown out more often the boy babies some people have argued against that but we have some pretty clear census records from Egypt where we have twice as many boys alive as girls those aren't due to natural causes but anyway um it may not sound very progressive in our culture but in Paul's culture it was more progressive Greek men averaged perhaps 12 years older than their wives they often viewed them as children and Plutarch is fairly progressive in this and and says so he says look I don't agree with most men who think that their wives are only children and can't learn anything rather this isn't his advice to bride-and-groom rather pollyannas take an interest in your wife's learning because wives are able to learn and then Plutarch ruins it he says if left to themselves women produce nothing but base passions and folly Paul doesn't doesn't ruin it like that but he he wants the husbands to take an interest in their wives learning so it's a more progressive position than Plutarch who considers himself quite progressive the the problem in Corinth is not that women are teaching rather it's that they're asking these questions that are like too elementary and maybe we should not let women interrupt sermons today with unlearned questions but personally I would prefer not to let men interrupt sermons with unloaded questions either another possibility or another factor is that Paul may be dealing with the congregations respectability in society women normally didn't speak in public in front of other women's husbands that was the tradition Paul says it's shameful for a woman to speak in public and the language that he uses his language that included things that were culturally shameful and he may be concerned about the witness don't believe in Corinthians but the application in our day in terms of witness to the surrounding culture I think would be the opposite if we are suppressing women's voices the other text is first Timothy chapter 2 verses 11 and 12 this is the only text in the Bible that specifically prohibits women from teaching the Bible if it does that and again there's a debate about the grammar whether it's saying women are not allowed to teach or they're not allowed to teach in such a way as to usurp authority are not allowed to in such a way as to have authority those are all debates it doesn't say that they can't pastor it says that they can't exercise Authority possibly or usurp authority which nobody should do there's a debate about the meaning of certain words this is the word is so rarely attested in Greek literature that I don't want to spend time arguing about the meaning of the word because it's it's a big debate that remains contentious but let's just take the most general possibility that the text here is prohibiting women even from teaching the Bible period if Paul is doing that in the most general way this is the only passage in the Bible that prohibits them from teaching the Bible is it a coincidence that this is also in the one set of letters where we specifically know that false teachers were targeting women second Timothy three six Paul speaks of false teachers are worm their way into homes gain control over weak willed women and the 1st Timothy 5 he speaks of of women going around as speakers of nonsense Gordon fee is the one who's shared with me the meaning of that Greek word I asked him if he was sure about it so he sent me a printout of every use of that Greek word in all of ancient literature but when Paul warns younger widows not to go from house to house why the widows and why are the false teachers targeting the women remember the women were less apt to be educated and where did the church meet in this period in homes and which women most often owned their own homes widows so the false teachers are targeting the women is it a coincidence that the one place where Paul says that women shouldn't teach or teach in such a way as to have authority or teach in such a way as to have usurp authority is in the one congregation the one place ephesus where we specifically know that the false teachers were targeting women almost no circles back then allowed women to teach there's just a handful of women teachers for adults that include men in all of antiquity so it was common to speak in general terms about no women teaching her exercising authority if the matter stopped there there probably wouldn't be such a big debate today but Paul goes on to acknowledge biblical reasons or to advance biblical reasons why women shouldn't teach and this is this is where the debate really comes in what people often respond with this Adam was formed first and then Eve that's why women shouldn't teach and Adam was not the one deceived it was the woman that was deceived and became a sinner so proponents of this position say Paul grounds this in his doctrine of creation women can't teach the Bible because Eve hence women are more susceptible to deception and they were created afterwards is that really his point and would he apply this to all situations his first argument is that Adam was created before Eve that was one of his arguments for head coverings in 1st Corinthians 11 if we don't require women in all cultures to wear head coverings in church then we can't use this argument we can't say it's cultural in 1st Corinthians 11 and say it's Universal in 1st Timothy 2 also Paul does sometimes make ad hoc arguments from scripture usually makes universal arguments but sometimes the Redhawk and if you read Genesis and its own terms first the it doesn't suggest that Adam being created before Eve means that Eve subordinate man and woman together or to exercise dominion is God's image when God makes out him a helper suitable for him or corresponding to him literally it doesn't mean something subordinate the the the language of helper is actually used more often for God than anybody else in the Bible and God is certainly not our subordinate so it's a it's a term of strength some say huh but Adam names Eve like he names the animals well Adam specifically addresses Eve differently before the fall it's only after the fall that he names her like he does the animals and we already know that the fall brought about the the issue of marital power conflict your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you that's the language of power conflict the same expression is used only one other place in the Old Testament and that's in the very next chapter where sin wants to master Cain but Cain is supposed to master it instead should we be promoting effects of the fall getting men to sweat at work because it says that men will be will bring forth with the sweat of their brow turn off the fans and and in terms of pain of childbirth you know that's also result of the fall do we want to encourage that pain and also in encouraging the results of the fault get get people to sin and die as much as possible we wouldn't say that but it's not it's not based on the order of creation in fact in in Genesis you usually see that what's created afterwards I mean man is the pinnacle of God's creation until woman but anyway Paul's argument number two may also be ad hoc Adam was not the one deceived it was the woman that was deceived and became a sinner but you look in Genesis he was right there she took some and ate it she also gave it to her husband it was with her and he ate it he didn't object maybe you know he said well God says we'll die let me see what happens to her first we can take this as either a local application or a universal principle if it's a universal principle then Eve stands for all women Eve was deceived therefore women are deceived and therefore women shouldn't teach except Titus says Paul says in Titus that that women are allowed to teach other women so it doesn't matter if they easily deceived teach the easily deceived because now it doesn't matter if women are deceived or it could be a local application in which case Eve represents those recently deceived the women in Ephesus are easily deceived therefore Paul uses Eve to stand in for them therefore these women shouldn't teach and then it wouldn't contradict all the other passages we looked at now in deciding the matter there are a couple questions one is empirically our women were easily deceived than men I taught hermeneutics for many years biblical interpretation for many years and I had maybe forty forty to fifty percent of my students were women there was absolutely no way you could tell from year-to-year who was going to get the higher grades context cultural background research methods I mean in terms of interpreting the Bible there was no way to predict based on gender there is there have been sociological studies and all they all they do is deal with averages so they don't apply to any particular man or woman but in terms of the averages at least in the u.s. men are slightly better at math skills and women are slightly better with verbal skills unlike myself but which is more useful for preaching obviously math skills so you know how many chapters come before chapter 14 know empirically it's not true women are not more easily deceived than men it doesn't have to do with the lack of a y-chromosome could Paul use the analogy with even in ad hoc way well the other two places where Paul refers to Eve in his letters this is assuming this is Paul but everybody who uses this to prohibit women the ministry holds that it's Paul the other two places are 1st Corinthians 11 where the man was created first and then the woman therefore women should wear head coverings and the one in 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 and verse 3 I don't want you all to be deceived as Eve was deceived by the serpent so Eve being deceived in second Corinthians refers to women universally to whom does it refer in 2nd Corinthians the whole Corinthian church so Paul does not always use Eve as a symbol for women he can apply this locally to groups locally so why would we insist on this one text being universal for all situations and then impose that on a reading of all other texts and not allow even for exceptions if we decide to press alt text and make the mandatory without taking into account their cultural situation then if you've got stomach problems you can't use tums my doctor told me to use tums no you should only use wine for your stomach's sake does your church support all eligible widows well you only have to do that if they've washed the Saints feet let me let me give something more relevant from 1st Corinthians 4 first Corinthians 14 how many of you said an offering for the church in Jerusalem last week y'all are liberal I'm leaving nopal that's his explicit command of Paul or for that matter 2nd Timothy chapter 4 and verse 3 coming back to the pastoral epistles when you come bring the cloak that I'm left with Karpis at Royce and my Scrolls especially the parchments how many of you have ever tried to obey this direct command of Scripture to do this first of all you would have to go to Troas and try to excavate it that's been done ever since heinrich schliemann in the 1700s he would have to find the right first century cloak assuming that it survived assuming the Timothy didn't already fetch it and assuming you could tell that it was Paul's and then you have to get it to Paul how you gonna do that he's dead so you've all disobeyed this one we intuitively understand with some texts okay this is addressing a particular situation that doesn't mean we can't learn from it we learn from it by means of analogy but what analogies do we draw from it that depends on what the point was and what the situation was that was being addressed the situation in Corinth with the head coverings head coverings were a sign of sexual modesty for married women in that culture so when a woman went out in public without her hair covered in certain cultural settings that signified she was looking for somebody to have sex with other than her husband so probably the point of that is don't go don't dress in such a way that suggests to people that you want to have sex with them if you're not married to them there are a number of passages where we intuitively recognize we need to take into account the background but we're not consistent with that that's why I wrote the background commentary we need to use background regularly again not everybody agrees but where we have to agree to disagree we need to do so in love as brothers and sisters in Christ and you've got other settings like slavery in the first century some of the same arguments that are used to subordinate wives in Ephesians 5 are the same arguments that are used later in that set of household codes in Ephesians chapter 6 they were used to subordinate slaves 150 years ago or calling husband's Lord which refers to a cultural situation but in the context of first Peter it's talking about submitting to every human institution there's a recognition these are human institutions submitting to the authorities that are doesn't mean that in all cultures they need to be the same so in first Peter he starts off that thing about submitting to human authorities by submitting to the king doesn't mean we have to reinstitute the monarchy or actually is New Zealand do you have are you loyal to the Queen okay anyway hey well long live the Queen night I'm all for that slowly

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Length: 46min 17sec (2777 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 13 2019