Woman Cannot Convince Court She is Alive - Ep. 7.238

welcome once again to lato's law here's steve leto it's one of those crazy stories i find it hard to believe mark phillips sends it to me it's from theguardian.com and um i'll tell you right now this is the fourth time i've tried recording it first two i had trouble with some words third and fourth times are technical issues who knows this video might never see the light of day it might be cursed but french woman spends three years trying to prove she's not dead you think they'd be easier to prove but apparently not especially not in france with the bureaucracy over there jean pushen has not existed in the eyes of france's officials since 2017 and i contacted my good friend jp friend of the show who is a native french speaker and i said i have a problem because i'm gonna be doing a story involving france and a lot of french names and so on in particular pushan i need to make sure i say it correctly and and he gave me a pronunciation guide and so i think i'm close on that but i'll simply refer to her by our last name from now on as pushen in the flesh she appears very much alive and well but convincing the french authorities of this another problem altogether she is declared dead by a court but not a court that was actually convened just regarding whether or not she's alive or dead it seemed to have been almost a tangential matter but once you're declared dead in a court apparently in france it can be difficult to convince french authorities otherwise she's declared dead back court she's now spent three years trying to have herself officially declared alive she's 58 years old she's from a town near leon she has not existed in the eyes of france's administration since 2017 because of a long-running legal dispute involving a former employee at her cleaning company so this goes back to another legal issue she had now she told journalists recently i went to see a lawyer who told me it'd be quickly resolved as i'd been to my doctor who's certified i was in fact alive but because there had been a legal ruling this was not enough so she actually went to a doctor and said can i get a note saying i'm alive [Laughter] seems like an unusual lawyer's note but you know her lawyer was also astonished at her greatly exaggerated death it's a crazy story i couldn't believe it i never thought that a judge declared someone dead without a certificate but the plaintiff claimed that bhushan was dead without providing any proof and everyone believed that person nobody checked so the decision by the court of appeal in lyon that declared her no more came in november 2017 after more than a decade of legal battles with a disgruntled former employee and there are several references in here to the monty python skit involving the dead parrot but also we're reminded of the holy grail i'm not dead yet so uh what happened was a 2004 industrial tribunal had ordered bhushan to pay the former member of her staff about 14 000 euros in damages and now that was after she'd been let go from a job that pushed firm had lost a major contract over so in others this person was an employee of buchen's company that's what started all this as the case was against the company and not pushing personally the ruling had not been enforced in 2009 the employee sued again but the case was then thrown out of court so it wound up going up on appeal somewhere in 2016 believing that pusha was dead an appeals court ordered her son and her husband to pay the damages which of course i'm sure they're like wait why should we pay your damages here right here the following year the employee informed the industrial tribunal that the letters to pochen were unanswered and that she must have died buchen was scratched from the official records invalidating her identity card her driving license her bank account her health insurance and other official documents necessary to prove that she was in fact still living as her lawyers sought this week to have her officially resurrected pushant accused the former employee of inventing her demise in an attempt to win damages from the heirs the employee's lawyer argued that pusheen was the author of her own demise and had played dead to avoid paying the damages accusations that she has in fact denied she said i have no identity papers no health insurance i cannot prove the banks that i am alive i am nothing it's time someone said stop if i don't fight nobody's going to fight for me my husband's grandmother is 102. she has lived through many things including the war but she says she's never suffered anything as hard as i've been through well i suspect that grandma's being kind there because she's probably seen worse things than this but it is obviously a bureaucratic nightmare as anybody in america who's ever had to deal with social security administration or perhaps the irs knows that for instance heaven forbid that you get a typographical error on your social security card it might be easier just to have your name legally changed to match the typo than it would be to actually get the social security administration to change your name but the unusual part about this is that this has apparently made its way through a court system because it mentions the 2004 industrial tribunal a 2016 court hearing and then a 2017 appellate court hearing so several different courts have looked at this and it appears that one court had before them somebody said i think this person is dead and the court looked as yes we agree they are dead boom and and banging the gavel on that one made it official but the interesting thing is that's not how it works in america and i don't know if the system in france works differently or this is how it's supposed to work i don't know but in america to be declared legally dead you would have a thing called a death certificate and a death certificate gets issued when you've passed away and i've studied these have written books where death certificates actually played a major role in something that i was writing about generally speaking in america and this will vary slightly from state to state but if you pass away they issue a death certificate by they i mean the the government's usually the county but it's overseen by the state and they've been doing this for over 100 years in michigan for instance and so if you die in a hospital it's called a medically attended death somebody was there at your bedside or showed up shortly thereafter and they can look at you and go yeah we know why this person died they passed away they had a medical issue that's why they're in the hospital and a doctor can say yes here's why they died here's when they died and here's who died and they filed a death certificate with the county and that gets filed the county takes it in they process it and then they send an official record to lansing there's actually a book okay in some places called the return of deaths and it's it's not a tax return but the word return is being used in that setting because the the the document gets sent to the county and the county sen it records and sends it off the state and that book is kept recording all the people who've passed away on that date in that county often by township if you die in a medically unattended situation car accident or something you die at home someone will still have to sign off on your death but since they weren't there they may have to do an investigation it's often the medical examiner's job in the old days that was the coroner the coroner but the coroners were replaced by medical examiners in the last few decades depends on where you are but uh in the old days the coroner was actually a government official who didn't necessarily even have any medical training but they were simply there to determine what the cause of death was and often it was simply to see whether it was a crime or not uh whether someone should investigate it as a crime or not but the bizarre part about this is that somebody went into a courtroom and simply said my opponent is not here they're dead and now it appears that they made the allegation that some mail was returned but returned mail doesn't prove someone's dead normally it would be a death certificate or or the equivalent right so without a death certificate or equivalent it does seem kind of strange that this woman is declared dead but it's even stranger how much trouble she's having getting it straightened out most people would assume that the judge who banged the gavel saying she's dead could likewise bang the gamble saying she's not dead by simply appearing in front of that judge and saying look judge here i am i am not dead i will swear to it under oath if you ask me to do you have to ask a witness to swear on the road that they are in fact alive if they're standing in front of you speaking and they're standing upright and they appear to be doing so under their own power it seems odd now sometimes people say you know is there anything else possibly going on here we can always speculate and ask ourselves is there something going underneath the current of these facts it's possible it's possible that a person might not want to appear in court to argue about whether they're alive or not for fear that if they appear in court then they'll also be asked okay while you're here let's talk about this unpaid judgment and many people would know this but to get brought into court in the first place they got to serve you with something they walk up they hit with the summons they go hey you know you're being sued show up in court or you know there's warrant for your arrest or being a rescue hauled in front of the court and sometimes people often hear that someone is trying to serve them and so they dodge service and somebody then says oh did you know you're being sued it turns out the person is trying to serve you says they served you and so in the old days there was a fear that if you sent an attorney into court or you went in on your own behalf and said i never got served the judge would go okay we'll throw out that summons here you are here's another summons boom you're served so they created this situation where you in you could often do this where you have an attorney going on your behalf to fight the service and say that you know just i'm here for the limited purposes of fighting the service on this as you can imagine courts don't like that either because the judge is looking at the attorney going okay you know about the case your client knows about the case but you don't want to be here no one wants to be here he's got to suck it up and come in and fight the case so i don't know if there's any possibility of any of that happening here i don't know that i'm just wondering why there were apparently three different courts involved in this at least and if three different courts have looked at this case at one time or another and one of the courts determined this woman is dead it should be a simple matter for her to simply go in front of that same court and do this unless there's something very very odd about french law that i don't i don't know about and that's always quite possible it's hard enough to pronounce these names so ms pushen is very much alive even though the french government does not think she is or at least they've declared her not alive and she's trying to get that straightened out so the guardian.com has a story mark phillips sent it to me french woman spends three years and more trying to prove she is not dead maybe she's just visiting the fjords i hear they're lovely questions your comments put them below let's talk to there bye-bye thank you for watching lato's law i'm just one stomach flew away from my goal weight you

Channel: Steve Lehto

Views: 55,648

Rating: 4.968811 out of 5

Keywords: lemon law, michigan lemon law, lemon law attorney, lemon law lawyer, http://www.lehtoslaw.com, steve lehto

Id: 2RNHMUzYQWk

Length: 11min 34sec (694 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 14 2021