Why Rifle Grenades? - German Rifle Grenades in WW2

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Reddit Comments

They need to fix the basic K98K first. The bolt cycle is much to slow. The sfx is a derpy muffled puuf noise.

👍︎︎ 11 👤︎︎ u/roadbeard 📅︎︎ Jul 21 2020 🗫︎ replies

Who’s ready to grind to level 9 with a rifleman?

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/the_jabrd 📅︎︎ Jul 22 2020 🗫︎ replies

This would go well with the grenadier loadout

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/JimIvan 📅︎︎ Jul 22 2020 🗫︎ replies

I wonder how effective these things even were. They look tiny, so I doubt there was enough explosive filler in there to cause significant damage. Even modern GL ammunition is pretty weak, most of the time with barely 5m of casualty radius (And even that is a best case scenario). They simply aren't big enough to be loaded with enough explosives. The AT variant especially looks like a joke. How many mm of steel can it even penetrate? Maybe a 10mm plate?

For anyone interested in real rifle grenades, check out the RAW (Rifleman's Assault Weapon). A 140mm rifle grenade with 1kg of explosive filler.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/AirScared 📅︎︎ Jul 21 2020 🗫︎ replies
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Time to take a look at German rifle grenades, for this we have a Karabiner 98 kurz equipped with a “Schießbecher” literally “shooting cup” that used to discharge rifle grenades. After discussing the question of why to use rifle grenades in the first place, we look at how to aim and fire the weapon according to regulation. Although this weapon might seem obscure to some of you, keep in mind that the Germans alone produced more than 60 million rifle grenades of all variants and other forces like the US also widely used them.Well, there are several reasons for this. A rifle grenade is relatively small and simple, yet at the same time, it provides an explosive weapon with a decent range for the infantry. Furthermore, it is one of the few weapons, which can be used both in direct and indirect fire mode. Thus, it is extremely versatile. Additionally, unlike most light mortars it does not need a plate or other heavy equipment. This allows the use of the rifle grenade already on squad level, whereas light mortars were usually used at platoon level or higher. Fleischer points out that small targets like loopholes were hard to hit during the First World War: "Hitting the small embrasures with hand grenades had proved extremely difficult in the war. Often the range was not sufficient. In their place one wanted to use rifle grenades, which were to be shot with great accuracy from rifle dischargers [literally shooting cups]. They penetrated the embrasure and exploded immediately." Another issue was the lack of an intermediate explosive weapon between the hand grenade and the 8 cm mortar, especially after the light mortar was removed from frontline service in 1941. Although, there were some weapons that might fit here, e.g., the infantry support gun or regular artillery, since they were usually located behind the infantry. Yet, due their high explosive power and limited accuracy, they endangered the friendly infantry as well. Furthermore, these weapons had a certain amount of delay before they could be called in by the infantry. This problem could be solved by equipping the infantry with rifle grenades. This is also outlined by the German pamphlet for the rifle grenade from October 1942: "The rifle explosive grenade is used to combat close-range targets, especially behind cover, which cannot be engaged by heavy infantry weapons and artillery without endangering friendly troops or other close combat equipment. Used as a hand grenade, it replaces the stick grenade [potato masher] and the egg hand grenade." Furthermore, with proper grenades, the rifle grenade can also be used as an anti-tank weapon as well: "The large anti-tank rifle grenade and the anti-tank rifle grenade are particularly effective means of engaging tank targets (tanks, armored reconnaissance vehicles and embrasures) at close range.” More on those grenades later. For now, let us take a closer look at the Schießbecher, the grenades and how it everything is put together with the Kar98k. First off, here is the Schießbecher, note that it was also called “Gewehrgranatgerät” literally “rifle grenade device”. It consisted of the holding device that was fixed onto the rifle with this screw. The second part in the front was the “Drallrohr” literally translated “swirl pipe” and as you can see it has rifling that fits with the bottom of the rifle grenade, according to the pamphlet this should be 8 groves that were angled at 12 degree. This was done for stabilization of the grenade during flight, note the Germans often used a spin for stabilization even for their rockets like the Nebelwerfer. The pipe or launcher had a caliber of 3 cm or 1.18 inch. Before the launcher was mounted, it was crucial that the rifle was unloaded and the barrel free of any object. Note that according to Fleischer there were 3 different types of Schießbecher in total. By the way even with the mounted rifle discharger it was technically possible to fire regular rifle ammunition in case of emergency, the pamphlet states: "If there is no time to remove the shooting cup from the rifle during a friendly break-in [breach of the foremost line(s) a precursor to a breakthrough] when defending against enemy break-ins, you can also shoot with rifle cartridges when the shooting cup is attached, but only at close range [...].” It is outlined further how the shot deviates and what to keep in mind. Now, how to load and prepare the rifle discharger for firing a grenade. Well, the obvious part is to put the rifle grenade into the rifle discharger at the top, but as you might suspect this is not all. There was also a “Kartusche”, which literally just means cartridge, but the proper translation is propelling cartridge. It would be fired from the regular rifle to then propel the rifle-grenade with the gas pressure. The pamphlet states: "e) Load the propelling cartridge belonging to the rifle grenade into the chamber of the rifle like a rifle cartridge, f) close the chamber of the rifle, g) switching the rifle safety on unless immediate action is taken." Most of you might know that the Karabiner 98k used stripper clips with 5 cartridges as regular ammo. The pamphlet notes that it was also possible to put the propelling cartridges on those clips as well. Note that there were several types of propelling cartridges. The appendix of the pamphlet contains a table that notes the name, propellant charge, identifiable characteristics, for which rifle grenade it could be used and an optional commentary. The pamphlet particularly mentions that the appropriate cartridges should be used with the proper grenade due the differences in the propellent charge and hence gas pressure. As such, cartridge and rifle grenade were shipped together: "Each explosive rifle grenade, large anti-tank grenade or anti-tank grenade - with an accompanying propelling cartridge wrapped with a paper strip - is packed in a cardboard packing case." So, how did the propelling cartridge and rifle grenade interact with each other? The propelling cartridge was similar to regular cartridge, it looked a bit different and of course the bullet was different. In this case it was made of wood that was painted to prevent humidity entering the cartridge. When the cartridge was fired the pressure that built up propelled the rifle grenade out of the discharger, furthermore the wooden bullet would arm the fuze. The pamphlet specifically noted that a regular cartridge is prohibited: "The use of a live cartridge of any kind in place of a propelling cartridge results in a bursting barrel and is prohibited." The next important element was the “Granatvisier” the “grenade sight”. It again consisted of a holding device and the actual sight. So, let us look at the sight without the rifle first, you notice there are range markings at two different locations, something that was a bit confusing at first, yet, the pamphlet explains: "In addition to the rest position mark at 0, the scale contains sight marks for shooting distances of 50 to 250 m for the explosive rifle grenade. The upper half of the scale contains the marks for the flat trajectory shot, the lower half of the scale contains the marks for the steep trajectory shot. The distances are engraved from 50 to 50 m; for the intermediate distances of 25 m there is a short mark each.” So, the markings are to support the flat trajectory shot and the steep trajectory shot. Note there were also sights that only reached 235 m, those are early versions when the grenades had less propellant. The pamphlet contains 2 tables, one for the old sight and one for the larger grenades on the 250 m sight. Changing the distance was simple, by pressing the button on the sight and then adjusting. Now, let us try to aim with the flat trajectory, the sight is set to 100 m and as you can see there it is still quite flat. Yet at 200 m, the rifle is already at a rather steep angle and at the maximum range of 250 m it is even steeper. Although it is important to keep in mind here that this was the flat trajectory mode. The pamphlet specifically states that this sight requires right-handed people and as such left-handed rifleman are not be used. Additionally, there were problems with this sight and changes to the range of rifle-grenades ranges caused further problems. As such, in September 1944, it was officially announced that the grenade sight was proven to be unsuccessful. As such alternative techniques and aiming devices to aim were developed. One was with the use of the regular “Stangenvisier” – the tangent sight of the Karabiner 98k. In some cases, this was also done, since the grenade sight did not fit, e.g., for the rifle 33/40 which was the carbine of the German mountain troops the “Gebirgsjäger”, that could not fit the grenade sight. But back to the Karabiner 98k, to aim with the tangent sight, one aligned it with certain parts of the gun, e.g., the tip of the discharger or the top of the “Unterring” or “lower ring”, which also held the leather strap. Firing could be performed while standing, kneeling or being prone. After the safety has been switched off, it is time to take the shot, the pamphlet notes: "The rifle shall be drawn into the right shoulder or, if this is not possible because of the elevation of the barrel, [it] shall be grasped as for free-hand shooting and held with both hands in a position that allows the most comfortable aiming. Although the recoil of the rifle is quite bearable, it is particularly important to grasp the neck of the butt firmly with the right hand to avoid injuries to the hand from the edges of the trigger guard.” There were also some wooden holding devices that allowed to place the rifle at certain angles ideal for a steep firing trajectory. Furthermore, it is noted that the rifle grenade is armed after about 2 meters in flight, as such it is crucial that nothing is in the flight path of the grenade or its detonation arc especially friendly troops, but branches, bushes and camouflage are also mentioned. Before we conclude this video, let’s look at some of the rifle grenades. Note that originally in 1942 only 4 different grenade types were available, while this number had increased to 16 in 1945 according to Fleischer. Additionally there were also various subvariants as well. The first one was the “Gewehr-Sprenggranate” which would literally mean “rifle-explosive grenade”, yet, the US catalog on Enemy Ordnance Material called it “Antipersonnel Rifle or Hand Grenade”, which might sound a bit confusing at first, yet, this grenade could also be used as a hand grenade as well: "The explosive rifle grenade can be used as a rifle and hand grenade." If you look at the blueprint, you will see that the lower part is unscrewed, this is exactly how to prepare the grenade for being used as a hand-grenade. Keep the cord in mind, since it is not present in the footage. So, let see how this would be done, you would unscrew the lower end like this. Yet, unlike here it would be connected with a breakaway cord. Pulling that cord would activate a burn fuze that would go off after about 4.5 seconds. Be aware that according to the pamphlet this grenade was originally painted yellow, I am not sure if this is a polished original or reconstruction. There were also training grenades of this variant, but they were painted red. If the grenade was fired regularly, the impact fuze would be armed shortly after leaving the discharger. To ensure that the grenade would also go off if it hit at a less than ideal angle, there was also a fuze in the lower cap that had a run time of 6.5 seconds. This would activate the burn fuze in the grenade that had the previously mentioned run time of about 4.5 seconds. As such, the maximum life-time of this grenade after firing was 11 seconds. As you can see that little thing is quite complicated. Next is the „Gewehr-Panzergranate” literally “Rifle-Tank Grenade”, although the US translation of Antitank rifle grenade is perfect here. And if you take a look at the blueprint some of you immediately will see, what this is. Yes, a hollow or shaped charge, because well, the charge is both hollow and shaped. When such a charge explodes, it directs the explosion into one direction, the resulting jet of metal particles that then penetrates the armor. Similar to the other grenade it has a grooves for the rifling. The grenade used an inertia fuze that sits in the bottom part of the grenade, this was in contrast to previous grenade that had its impact fuze at the top part of the grenade. Note there was also a larger version of the anti-tank grenade as well that was a bit slower, but had improved penetration. Now, before we conclude this video, a short look at the bigger picture. These rifle dischargers and rifle grenades are rarely covered or mentioned. Yet, considering how many of them were produced this is quite interesting. In total around 1.4 million dischargers were produced, likely a bit more since we do not know the number for 1941. To put this in contrast of the famous MG 42, only about 0.4 million were produced. Yet, what was far higher, was the amount of ammo manufactured, Fleischer notes that for the anti-personnel grenade alone 38.7 million were produced from 1941 to 1945. Then another 23.8 million of the regular and large anti-tank grenade. Considering various other types, we have at least 67 million grenades produced. Although this weapon saw large scale use, the production of the rifle dischargers was discontinued in May 1944. In early 1945 ammo was still produced, yet in an overview on ammo production for April 1945, there was no mention of rifle grenade ammunition. The question is, why was it discontinued? Well, actually it seems it wasn’t discontinued in use. The situation was that there was a huge surplus of the grenade discharger. Hahn notes that at the end of the war around 245 000 were at the front, whereas 618 000 were in ordnance depots. Similarly, Handrich points out that there was a huge surplus and he actually cites his sources. Furthermore, he notes that the Sturmgewehr 44 was capable of reusing the rifle grenade discharger of the Kar98k as well. As such, a switch in weapons would not require the production of a new discharger. Well, not much to add here, I hope you learned something new about rifle grenades and especially the Schießbecher. Big thank you here to Reinolf Reisinger of the Wehrkundliche Sammlung Schloss Ebelsberg and Andreas for providing me with access and information to the equipment. Thanks to Philipp for answering various small arms questions and special thanks to Andrew for improvements on the script. As always sources are listed in the description. Thank you for watching and see you next time!
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Channel: Military History Visualized
Views: 330,933
Rating: 4.9347553 out of 5
Keywords: Why Rifle Grenades?, ww2, Rifle Grenades, Rifle Dischargers, Kar98k with Schießbecher, Gewehrgranatgerät, Rifle Grenade Device, Shooting Cup, Mauser with Rifle Grenade Launcher
Id: daBwCMgOpu0
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 14min 42sec (882 seconds)
Published: Tue Jul 21 2020
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