Why not fly the eagles to Mordor?

did Gandalf want the fellowship to fly to Mordor did he want them to use the Eagles it's a huge fan theory but when you analyze the text does it actually work hi everyone this is Robert welcome to in deep geek this video is brought to you by my wonderful patreon community I'm now creating regular junior art Okun and Lord of the Rings content on this channel that's as well as the usual Game of Thrones and Westworld videos so if you're interested in seeing more please click on the subscribe button in the bottom right of your screen and the bell icon it is the best known and most widely shared fan theory about the Lord of the Rings ever starting with a simple live detailed reddit post to this theory identifies an apparent plot hole in Tolkien's otherwise impeccably planned masterpiece and fills it with the solution why send hobbits over ground all the way to Mordor when you have Eagles on your site perhaps Gandalf had planned all along to use the giant Eagles who had helped him out several times before to fly the ring there had he really told them to fly on the face of it this seems like a great idea which is why their theory has taken off so much rather than having two rather low powered hobbits try to sneak into the enemy's heavily defended backyard you could use the Eagles on a fast-moving stealth raid they rescued Gandalf from Isengard and in The Hobbit they rescued all of Gandalf Sparty enroute to the Lonely Mountain so we know they're friendly with Gandalf they could swoop in and just drop the ring into the cracks of doom or drop a crack team of commandos just outside the door and let them do it why not well yes from what we see in the movies and the basic understanding of the plot that does seem to make sense but let's see what the books actually say let's start by analyzing the idea that this was Gandalf's plan all along there appear to be two main bits of evidence used to support this first there's the idea that he was trying to steer the fellowship towards the Eagles Eyrie we aren't told exactly where the areas but it's somewhere on the eastern side of the misty male and close by the High Pass Gandalf's original thought on how to take the fellowship over the Misty Mountains was the high pass near the Eyrie so there's that the second bit of evidence often used is Gandalf's last words to the fellowship fly you fools he says before the Balrog pulls him down into the depths of the earth okay so let's start with this idea that Gandalf wanted to take the fellowship close by the Eyrie this is not backed up by the text at all I'm afraid he spends long hours in conversation with Aragorn in Rivendell and later discussing which way to go suggesting alternative ways to the high pass in fact the high pass the one which goes closest to the Eagles is rejected as an idea quite quickly due to the weather and by the time they leave Rivendell they have decided not to go that way at all instead heading over a hundred miles south to the red Horn pass in short Gandalf does not ever actually try to take them that way instead they turn away from that route very quickly and head away from it when they get to the red horn pass and can't cross Gandalf even admits that he had always suspected they may have to head through Moria and to be honest even the implication that Gandalf is some kind of autocratic leader in charge of the Fellowship is also not backed up by the books the film cut down the Council of Elrond a lot it's understandable in the books it is a great section but often interrupted by songs and feasts and breaks of a couple of months while they're waiting for news from abroad but while they are in Rivendell and the Ring Quest is agreed upon Elrond is clearly in charge not Gandalf only Frodo as ring bearer is given any actual commission or role in the Fellowship everyone else including Gandalf is just charged to travel along and help or not help as they will although Gandalf is clearly respected by the rest of the Fellowship he doesn't tell them where to go and the only way he does seem to push for through Moria is a long way from the Eagles if his plan was to use the Eagles he kept a very quiet about it didn't tell anyone in the Fellowship about it and deliberately tried to hide it by taking them a DIF root to put it mildly this doesn't sound like Gandalf he simply is not a manipulative lying kind of person in fact he is often blunt and truthful to a fault Faden says that he is ever a herald of woe and it's noticeable that the moment he is sure what the One Ring is he tells Frodo and Sam without sugarcoating it at all he doesn't hide the truth from them or anyone if using the Eagles was Gandalf's plan why didn't he tell anyone all suggested to Elrond of course he would have said something but no there is no evidence that this was Gandalf's plan and no evidence that he actually ever tried to take the fellowship anywhere near the Eagles the second argument that Gandalf wanted the fellowship to use the Eagles and the most widely cited is that his last words to them are fly you fools did he literally mean for them to fly I have to admit to loving this as an idea but unfortunately it really doesn't stack up we're asked to believe that after telling no one that this was his plan when he finally decided to tell them he didn't say use the Eagles or fly to Mordor or anything clear like that instead saying fly you fools which literally everyone in the fellowship interpreted as get out of here quickly and even a cursory look at tokens and Gandalf's language usage tells us that fly is just an old-fashioned way of saying move fast I started checking through the books for references and there really are too many to repeat here the hobbits used fly three or four times to describe their escape from the Shire Glorfindel tells the hobbits to fly because the nazgûl are approaching Gandalf himself uses it to tell a wolf to be off and to top it all just in this section we're looking at now Gandalf is described as flying down some steps Aragorn and Boromir are described as flying across some open ground Gandalf tells the fellowship to fly over the bridge of khazad-dûm and so on this isn't some coded message it's just Tolkien's and Gandalf's favorite way of saying move quickly it was quite calm phraseology back when the book was written but it just sounds a bit odd to our ears today okay so now we've covered off the idea that this was somehow Gandalf secret plan it clearly wasn't let's look at whether it would have been a good plan anyway well first let's do away with any idea that this would have been some kind of stealth mission they are called great Eagles for their size as well as their magnificence and although they do vary a bit in size in Tolkien's writings they are always large and sometimes enormous the largest we hear of is thrombo who had a wingspan of 55 meters that's half the length of a football pitch imagine a convocation of eagles yes wonderfully that is the collective noun for a group of Eagles lots of Eagles that size you would see them for miles around particularly as the skies around Mordor were being guarded by nazgul on there fell beasts but maybe they could speed in catch everyone by surprise and drop the ring in the cracks of doom well again unfortunately not because the Eagles wouldn't be able to get to the actual cracks themselves just the mountainside outside we're told that the entrance to the cracks is at the end of a long cave or tunnel that bored into the mountains smoking cone you can walk down to it but not fly there fair enough so maybe the Eagles could carry the fellowship too just outside the door drop them off there and let them fight their way in Sam and Frodo got in easily enough on their own after all that's true they did but they only got through so easily because Saren had diverted the large force normally stationed there to face Aragorn who he thought had the ring and was about to attack Mordor and that false assumption was only possible because Sauron had previously seen Pippin through the Pawlenty er at all thanked and assumed he was The Hobbit with the ring in short the only way for a small group to get into the cracks of doom was the chain of events that actually happened just dropping some people in there without Pippin and aragorn's later adventures happening would have been simply to drop people into the middle of a hostile army not a clever plan at all and while we're at it we're making huge assumptions that the Eagles would even want to and be able to carry people all that way Tolkien explicitly tells us that they wouldn't much earlier in the story when Gandalf was being carried away from or thanked by gwaihir the Lord of the Eagles how far can you bear me I said to gwaihir many leagues said he but not to the ends of the earth I was sent to bear tidings not burdens the Eagles who are let's not forget more than just Eagles they are servants of a man way the king of the Valar are observers and bearers of news rather than primarily active participants in middle-earth they aren't there to carry people around from one place to another Gandalf will have understood that when gwaihir said he wasn't sent to bear burdens he will have included to the burden of the Ring in that the ring is always referred to as a burden but the more important issue here is that even if the Eagles wanted to carry the fellowship to mortal and even if they managed to get them there and even if the fellowship managed to fight their way in there who would have the strength to throw the ring into the cracks of doom the closer the ring got into Mordor the stronger it became eventually even Frodo's will failed it took control of Boromir a long way away it's all very well that Aragorn is the heir of Isildur but we know that ISIL doors will also failed all those years ago when he tried to destroy the ring there perhaps Legolas Gimli could have tried but could they really have done better than Frodo with the ring using every bit of its power to stop itself from being destroyed gandalf didn't dare even touch the ring there are no certainties here at all no the more you look at it the more it seems that the only and best way for the ring to be destroyed was the way it was Frodo and Sam carrying it through Mordor Aragorn distracting Saran's attention and Gollum ultimately destroying the ring by accident not design and I actually think the wisest of middle-earth had an inkling that this might be the case this was why one suggested the Eagles plan I'm not saying that gamble for Elrond or whoever knew exactly what would happen but they seemed to have a feel for what must be this is what Elrond said when talking to Frodo if I understand a write all that I have heard he said I think that this task is appointed for you Frodo and that if you do not find a way no one will this is the hour of the shire folk when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and councils of the great who of all the wise could have foreseen it or if they are wise why should they expect to know it until the hour has struck Elrond senses that this is Frodo's task not something for all of the fellowship they should help however they can but it is upon him to carry the ring and Gandalf seems to have a similar feeling about Gollum I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies but there is a chance of it and he is bound up with the fate of the Ring my heart tells me that he has some part to play it for good or ill before the end and when that comes the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many yours not least Gandalf knows somehow that Gollum will play an important role later in this quest connected with Frodo and Galadriel seems to sense that even if the Fellowship as was the case when they were in Lothlorien did not know which path they would take it was already fated for them and hence that the Fellowship may break and they may tread different paths may be the paths that you each shall tread are already laid before your feet there you do not see them Elrond Gandalf and Galadriel each seemed to sense parts of what was to come even if they did not see the whole picture so let's summarize this it was never Gandalf's plan to use the Eagles to get to Mordor he never tried to take the fellowship anywhere near the Eagles the Eagles wouldn't want to do it anyway and even if they had the would probably fail anyway the only way to destroy the ring was pretty much of events panned out exactly as they did Gandalf Elrond and Galadriel saw parts of this and helped events on their way the way to destroy the Ring of Power was never going to be through clever power games with angelic like Eagles and using the fellowship like a commando squad it was through simplicity humility and pity and we were told that right from the beginning of this story if you'd like to see more videos in the world of junior are talking and the Lord of the Rings please click on the link to the playlist on the left of your screen or if you'd like to support this channel or get access to some content I produced just for my patrons please click on the link to my patreon page on the right of your screen thanks for watching that's all for this time and I'll see you again Singh

Channel: In Deep Geek

Views: 323,593

Rating: 4.9274387 out of 5

Keywords: in deep geek, deep geek, lord of the rings, the lord of the rings, lotr, tolkien, fly you fools, the eagles, gandalf, plot hole, why didnt gandalf use the eagles to fly to mordor, why not use the eagles to fly to mordor, eagles to mordor, fly you fools gandalf, did gandalf say run you fools, did gandalf want to use the eagles, frodo, eagles, fellowship, mordor, ring, why didnt gandalf fly the ring to mordor, fly the ring, theory, theories

Id: 1M2G6_enARY

Length: 14min 14sec (854 seconds)

Published: Sat May 09 2020