Why Gwen Won't Die In Beyond The Spider-Verse

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Alright so Across the Spider Verse is exactly  1 year old now and I still can’t stop watching   it because it’s a masterpiece and  the more I’ve dug into this film,   the more one particular prediction about  Beyond the Spider-Verse has just become…   very silly to me. And that is the assertion  that Gwen will probably die in the next film. Now I’ve seen a lot of conversation, debate  if you will, on this topic. People who think   she will die point to the obvious fact that it is  Spider-Man tradition for Gwen Stacy or a similar   love interest to die in an act of fridging in  order to push Spider-Man’s development further. And people who think she won’t die tend  to combat that reading of the text by   pointing out that in her universe, she is  Spider-Woman and her love interest died,   which means that the boxes for staying faithful  to the source material have already been checked. And what I find interesting is that both  of these arguments miss the point of Across   the Spider-Verse, in different ways, and in ways  that are directly challenged by the film itself.   So, first of all, both Spider-Verse  films that have come out so far,   but especially Across the Spider-Verse,  are obviously and indisputably aware of   the conventional rules that a  Spider-Man story must follow. They show character introductions and movie act  transitions using these comic book cuts. “I was   bitten by a radioactive spider and I’m pretty  sure you know the rest”. Hell, the pre-established   rules for what a Spider-Man story is supposed to  be are literally physically embodied in the movie   itself in the form of the Spider-Verse.  I really do not need to explain this. And the central point of conflict between our  protagonist and antagonist hinges on whether or   not those conventional rules are breakable. Our  protagonist, Miles Morales, believes they are,   while our antagonist, Miguel o’hara does not. So  off the bat, we should be expecting our hero to be   proven right. The cannon says his dad is supposed  to die and for Miles to realize his philosophy,   that things can change, that you can make your  own destiny, that you don’t have to be constrained   by the boxes others try to put you in, he has  to actually save his dad, defying the cannon. But it’s not just because Miles is the  good guy and Miguel is the bad guy that   makes me say this. There is textual evidence  which indicates to the audience that Miles’   belief system is correct. First of all,  Miguel O'Hara would have us believe that   cannon events are unavoidable and  breaking them destroys universes,   but it’s worth noting that he is not  necessarily a reliable source of information. He has experienced personal trauma from  the results of him breaking cannon,   and has developed a sense of self worth out of  his ability to keep others from doing the same.   If cannon events aren’t unavoidable, Miguel has  incentive to not let that information go public. Moreover, there are multiple points in the film  where the plausibility of the Spider-Verse being   wrong are hinted at, mostly but not exclusively  from Miles. Obviously Miles is an anomaly. His   entire existence breaks cannon, but then  there are more subtle moments like how when   Miles asks when does his dad die, Miguel  responds with a statement of fact. He says… But then Lyla cuts in adding… There’s also this moment where Gwen  asks if Miguel knows what will happen   if Miles breaks cannon and rather  than actually answering her question,   he resorts to intimidation… and immediately,  in front of all the other Spider-People I   might add, banishes Gwen back to her  dimension for stepping out of line. So based on all this, it should be really  clear that Miguel doesn’t have the strongest,   most infallible argument for why  breaking cannon is impossible.   Or at least that there are plenty of characters  who are not nearly as confident as him in that   belief. The examples I just pointed out imply that  Miguel has gained the cooperation of the other   Spider-People in no small part through fear  and the power of pure assertion in his claims. And Gwen being the last person who  challenges Miguel like this in the film,   I believe is very meaningful, particularly as  it applies to the discussion surrounding her   fate in Beyond the Spider-Verse. If you hadn’t  picked up on it yet, the argument that Gwen must   die because Gwen Stacey has to die in a Spider-Man  story is exactly the same as saying that Miles’   dad must die because a police captain close  to Spider-Man dying is a cannon event. But that’s kinda obvious, and moreover,  it doesn’t prove the other side of this   argument correct either. Gwen won’t die, not  because her death isn’t actually a cannon   event. Gwen won’t die because cannon events are  stupid. Gwen won’t die because Miles is right. If you fixate on proving that Gwen won’t die  by arguing that this particular cannon event   just doesn’t apply to her, you are reinforcing  the false credibility of cannon events. You are   implicitly accepting the belief system of  the Miguel O'Haras of the world. You are   engaging with them on their terms, and you  shouldn’t do that because they are wrong. And that specific understanding of how to properly  oppose systems like the one Miguel constructs is   what Across the Spider-Verse communicates to the  audience through Gwen which is why it baffles me   so much that anyone can miss this in conversations  about whether or not she will die. Gwen,   herself is heavily implied to be concerned about  the possibility of her own death if she allows her   relationship with Miles to become romantic, and  it is all too easy to see how Miles’ existence,   his utter defiance of the rules she  thought the multiverse played by,   acts a source of hope for her. Miles is a  signal to her that she can survive. More   than just survive, she can live. She can  exist in this world the way she wants to. And do I even need to point out how obviously well  this maps onto the experience of trans people?   Look, the whole “is Gwen trans?” “debate” that  took over a sizable chunk of the public reaction   to this film when it came out was always just a  big meme to me because everyone who was against   interpreting her character as trans pretended  to be some kind of high intellectual of how   storytelling and authorial intent by pointing out  that “Gwen isn’t canonically confirmed as trans.   You can read her as a trans allegory but that’s  just your interpretation.” Like, congratulations   you figured out how all of art consumption  works. People observe elements of a creative   work and come up with their own interpretations  of said creative work based on those observations. It should also come as no surprise how  ironic I think it is that such a huge   part of the discussion surrounding this film  was about weather or not one of its characters   is *canonically* trans when the whole point of  the movie, and *in particular* the whole point   of this specific character is about dismantling  the mindset that “canonicity” holds any value. And for what it’s worth. There absolutely is  enough evidence in this movie to reasonably   interpret Gwen as a trans woman. If you think  that the creative staff didn’t know that the   film would be read this way and intend for it  to be read this way at least by trans people,   you are operating on an astonishing level  of intentional misunderstanding of the text. So ok, knowing that the creators expected and  wanted Gwen to be read as trans at least by   trans people, how awful of a decision would  it be to kill her off? Not just because she’s   fucking awesome. Not just because it would  be burying your gays. Both of those, yes,   but also because that runs completely  contrary to the belief system of Gwen   by the end of the film, of the film  itself, and of the trans audience. Killing Gwen off would mean telling  trans people, and really anyone who   connects with the things she struggles with,  that the lessons we learned throughout this   movie are wrong. That there is no world that  will ever accept you for who you really are,   and if you try to exist in the world as you really  are, it’ll destroy you, or the world, or both. The people making this film are smarter  than that. They know what kind of story   they’re telling. It is no coincidence  that this film is by a landslide the   most socially inclusive mainstream Spider-Man  media property to date. The themes it is just   intrinsically about are simply really  applicable to socially minorities. And I don’t mean to paint all minorities  as a monolith. Different intersectional   identities will experience different  types and degrees of stigmatization,   and that’s something this film also appears to  be aware of. Reading Gwen as trans is meaningful,   but what adds an extra layer to that meaning is  reading her a white trans person specifically. Gwen, like many white trans people feels  the pressure society puts on her to not   be honest about who she really is,  but she has a tendency to act as if   existing systems of oppression  are something to be navigated,   rather than dismantled. “If I go through the  struggle to fit myself into an accepted box,   even if it’s not the box I was told to fit into  at birth, everything will go back to normal.” A lot of white trans people get fooled by  the dream of integrating into the world as   it exists now, or y'know a few years ago  before our existence became a political   wedge issue. Partially because we struggle to  see how our race has an impact on our lives   but also because we are so often vulnerable and  in need of a support system. Thematically then,   it makes sense why Gwen clings so hard onto  the Spider-Society and the belief system   which Miguel imposes on it even though it’s  exploiting her to do things that are not in   her or Miles’ best interests. People like her…  people like us, always don’t have hope that a   better alternative to this system exists until we  come into contact with… well, people like Miles. People who, rather than trying to find a  set of rules they can tolerate following,   break the rules and forge their own new path. Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse is about  breaking out of the boxes imposed on you by   wider society so for it to do anything other than  radically break the conventions of a traditional   Spider-Man story would be antithetical  to what it stands for as an art piece. That’s why Gwen won’t just not die in  Beyond the Spider-Verse. Gwen will live. Finally, I should point out that while I applied  this discussion of Across the Spider-Verse’s   philosophy to the question of “will Gwen die in  the next film?”, hopefully it should be clear   how for the same reason that I believe she will  live, I also believe it is totally possible for   any number of traditional Spider-Man story rules  to be broken. So Miles saving his dad, or Gwen   and Miles becoming a couple, which is actually  another implied concern of Gwen’s in this quote.   It’s all possible. Anything, truly anything is  possible, and that has just got me so, so excited. I’ll be honest, this script started out as a  reddit post from months ago that I felt I had   to expand upon because like I said, I can’t  stop watching this movie and I can’t stop   thinking about it. It’s been so long since a film  resonated with me the way Across the Spider-Verse   does and you can bet that I will be eager to talk  about Beyond the Spider-Verse when it comes out. Anyway I got a big list of other videos  to make in the meantime so see ya later.
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Channel: Kross
Views: 6,216
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: Kross, Spiderman across the spiderverse, Across the spiderverse review, across the spiderverse analysis, spider gwen, spider gwen trans, spiderman trans, across the spiderverse trans, spiderverse analysis, gwen death, spider gwen death, spiderman beyond the spiderverse, beyond the spiderverse, miguel o'hara, hobie brown, spider punk, will gwen die?, will spider gwen die?, gwen and miles, gwen and miles ship
Id: o06oT96lLM8
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 10min 54sec (654 seconds)
Published: Sat Jun 01 2024
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