>>> WHAT CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS A BIZARRE RALLY IN NEW JERSEY, DONALD TRUMP HAD HIGHER PRAISE FOR HANNIBAL LECTOR AND AL CAPONE THAN A ONE DURING TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. IN ONE PETTY ATTACK HIM A WORKSHOP HIS NEWEST NICKNAME FOR THE MANHATTAN DA ALVIN BRAGG. HE ACCUSED JUDGE MERCHAN PRESIDING OVER THE CASE OF BEING , QUOTE, HIGHLY CONFLICTED. THE MAIN TARGET OF HIS LATEST PUBLIC TANTRUMS? THAT WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN. APOLOGIES IF THIS BLOWS YOUR PRACTICE, BUT WE FEEL IT'S NECESSARY TO PLAY THIS CLIP TO SEE HIS GASLIGHTING FIRSTHAND. >> JOE IS WEAK. ONLY GOOD AT CHEATING ON ELECTIONS. IT'S NOT HIM. HE IS SURROUNDED BY FASCISTS AROUND THE OVAL OFFICE. HE IS NOT HIM. HE'S GOOD AT ACHIEVING ELECTIONS. >> JOINING US NOW FOUNDERS OF PRINCIPLE FIRST. PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND AUTHOR OF STRONGMEN, MUSSOLINI TO THE PRESIDENT. GOOD MORNING TO YOU. >> GOOD MORNING. >> THIS RALEIGH IS NOT SURPRISING. IT'S THE TYPICAL FARE WE GET FROM DONALD TRUMP. WHAT FASCINATES ME IS HIS ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO PERPETUATE THE LIE AND THE GRAVITATIONAL FORCE IT HAS AMONG VOTERS OUT THERE THAT DESPITE EVERYTHING THEY KNOW, AND EVERYTHING WE HAVE LEARNED SINCE JANUARY 6, THERE IS STILL THIS MOVEMENT IN THE DIRECTION OF THESE LIES. HOW DO YOU ASSESS WHAT TRUMP IS DOING, AND WHY HE IS STILL SUCCESSFUL DOING DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT WOULD UNDO ANYONE ELSE IN POLITICS? >> IT'S SO FRUSTRATING IS A CONSERVATIVE WHO BECAME A REPUBLICAN BECAUSE I WAS AGAINST THIS VICTIM HOOD STATUS IN POLITICS. THAT IS TRUMP'S ONLY PLAY. WHETHER THE ELECTIONS, THESE TRIALS, TRUMP IS THE VICTIM OF THE JUDGE, THE ELECTOR DOWN THE STREET WHO IS A CITIZEN ENGAGED IN THE ELECTIONS. EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET HIM. IT IS BIZARRE. THIS COUNTRY HAS GIVEN TRUMP EVERYTHING. HE IS NOT A VICTIM. HE OWNS HOTELS. HE IS NOT A PARTICULARLY GOOD BUSINESSMAN. YET, EVERY TIME HE COMES UP AND TALKS ABOUT ANYTHING, IT'S ALWAYS POOR ME. POUR YOU. WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AND THEY ARE OUT TO GET US. THAT IS HIS TRICK IN POLITICS. IT IS FRUSTRATING TO SEE. EVERY WEEK, SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND SOMEBODY TO BLAME. >> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU. I DO KNOW ABOUT YOU. SHE HAS HAD ARE CUPFUL OF THIS CRAZY. >> DONALD TRUMP KEEPS TELLING US WHO HE IS. RUTH, I AM CONCERNED THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING WHAT HE IS SAYING SERIOUSLY. THE THING HE RAILS AGAINST THE JUDGE. HE RAILS AGAINST FASCIST. THEY NEED TO TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY. THE CRAZY IS CONCERNING BECAUSE THE CRAZY COULD BE BACK IN THE OVAL OFFICE IF PEOPLE ARE NOT DILIGENT WITH THEIR VOTE. >> ABSOLUTELY. ONE WAY TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY IS TO SEE HIM AS PART OF A BROADER AUTHORITARIAN PATTERN. THE WHOLE VICTIM THING, MISCELLANY USED TO STYLE HIMSELF AS A VICTIM. IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE AUTHORITARIAN PLAYBOOK. IN TURKEY, ERDOGAN SAYS HE'S A VICTIM. PUTIN SAYS THE WHOLE NATION IS A VICTIM. THIS GOES WITH DEPICTING YOUR OPPONENTS AS A REAL FASCIST. NOW RAMPING UP THIS NEW TALKING POINT THAT BIDEN IS SURROUNDED BY FASCIST. BIDEN IS AN AUTHORITARIAN. THAT WORRIES ME BECAUSE GUESS WHO WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SAY HE REPRESENTED FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. IT WAS MISCELLANY. THAT'S ANOTHER TALKING .100 YEARS LATER THAT TRUMP IS USING THIS. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN MUSSOLINI AND HITLER WERE NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY EARLY ON. PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE CLOWNS. BUFFOONS. WE HAVE THIS WISDOM OF HISTORY AND WE NEED TO USE IT TODAY. >> PART OF THAT IS THE FACT HE IS ATTACKED IN THE JUDICIARY. THE FACT HE IS SPECIFICALLY ATTACKING JUDGE MERCHAN. THAT'S AN ATTACK ON THAT SPECIFIC JUDGE, BUT ALSO AN ATTACK ON THE SYSTEM OVERALL. >> ACTUALLY, WHAT HE IS DOING IS -- IT'S PART OF A MASSIVE AND CONCERTED ATTEMPT TO DELEGITIMIZE THE WHOLE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM. ALL THE INSTITUTIONS BUT ESPECIALLY THE JUDICIARY. AUTHORITARIANS ALWAYS GO AFTER THE JUDICIARY JUDGES AND PROSECUTORS SITTING IN JAIL IN RUSSIA AND TURKEY. FORCED OUT IN HUNGRY. TRUMP HAS ATTACKED JUDGES 138 TIMES. PUBLICLY SINCE 2022. THAT'S AN EXAMPLE. IT'S A SYSTEMATIC THING. HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING. HE'S AN EFFECTIVE PROPAGANDIST. >> WHAT ARE THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS. HEATH, THAT I THINK IS FASCINATING -- YOU HAVE TRUMP CORRUPTING THE INTERNAL ORGANS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH YOU AND I DILIGENTLY FOUGHT THOSE BATTLES BACK IN THE DAY TO BRING SOME COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS WE THOUGHT WOULD WORK FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. HAVE THE BACK AND FORTH WITH DEMOCRATS. THAT IS NOW GONE. THE PLATE HAS BEEN RESHAPED WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT OTHER REPUBLICANS WHO SAY, I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP. OKAY? THE NEXT QUESTION IS WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR? I THINK I WILL WRITE SOMEONE'S NAME AND I WILL NOT VOTE. YOU HAVE NIKKI HALEY OUT THERE STILL RACKING UP A LOT OF VOTES AND YOU HAVE POLITICAL REPORTING THAT THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IS LOOKING AT NIKKI HALEY VOTERS AS A CO-PART OF THE COALITION. AS LONG WHAT THAT, WE HAVE A FRIEND IN THE FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA, DUNCAN, WHO IS COME OUT AND MADE A CLARION CALL THAT COULD ALSO MOVE REPUBLICANS INTO THE COALITION. WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GET REPUBLICANS, TO CREATE THAT PERMISSION STRUCTURE, IF YOU WILL, FOR THEM TO SAY, I KNOW I'M NOT DANCING WITH TRUMP. LET ME GO AT LEAST AND SEE WHAT JOE BIDEN IS DOING? >> I THINK YOU WILL SEE MORE FOLKS LIKE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DUNCAN COME OUT AND MAKE THAT LEAP. THE STAKES ARE HIGH. HE REALIZES HE. HE WAS ON THE FRONT LINES IN GEORGIA. HE AND BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, THEY KNOW HOW CLOSE WE CAME. THIS IS NOT A TIME TO GO RIGHT IN RONALD REAGAN. YOU KNOW? THE STAKES ARE HIGH. YOU CAN DO THAT IF YOU WANT, BUT AT SOME POINT, THERE HAS TO BE A LINE. >> HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT ARGUMENT? WHAT'S THE ARGUMENT WE MAKE TO THOSE REPUBLICANS? WHAT SHOULD THEY BE HEARING. WHICH IS THE BIDEN TEAM BE SAYING TO THEM? >> LOOK, STANDING WITH UKRAINE. FOREIGN-POLICY IS ONE. LOOK AT TRUMP VERSUS BIDEN, AND I DON'T REALLY LIKE EITHER OF THEM. THEY ARE NOT MY CUP OF TEA BUT TRUMP SAID HE WOULD SELL OUT UKRAINE IN 24 HOURS. THIS GUY IS ALWAYS PRAISING STRONGMEN. HE BASICALLY LIKES VLADIMIR PUTIN. WHEN YOU COMPARE THE TWO IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN PRESIDENT FOR FOUR YEARS AND HE WILL BE A SECOND TERM LAME- DUCK. LET'S GET RID OF THIS TRUMP GUY. THEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN HEAL AND TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WILL DO TO ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY. RIGHT NOW, THE DISCUSSION IS NOT ABOUT POLICY AT ALL. IT'S ABOUT TRUMP EVERY DAY. >> YOU KNOW WHAT? I FEEL LIKE I'M A FLY ON THE WALL AT THE COUNTRY CLUB. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION. I AM >>> BY YOUR POINT, GET RID OF TRUMP, THEN THE ADULTS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN COME BACK IN THE ROOM. I AM WONDERING WHAT RUTH THINKS OF THIS. WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT JUST TERM. TRUMP AT THIS POINT, HE'S A PROBLEM, HE IS A SYMPTOM, BUT IT IS DEEPER THAN HIM. I AM LOOKING AT THE TREE CAPITOL AND I THINK OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME RIGHT OUT THERE ON THE STEPS ON JANUARY 6. I THINK OF ALL THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WILLING TO GO ALONG INTO DONALD TRUMP'S BIDDING REGARDING WHAT IT IS INCLUDING THE CURRENT SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? IT FEELS LIKE THIS HAS INFECTED THE ROOT. >> THERE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN A LACK OF LEADERSHIP THROUGHOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. TRUMP HAS TAKEN UP THE OXYGEN IN THE ROOM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO LEADERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. EVERYBODY HAS FOLLOWED HIM IN A TRAIN BECAUSE NOBODY HAS DARED TO TAKE HIM ON ON ANY OF THE STUFF. THAT'S AN ELEMENT OF IT. I THINK THERE IS FRUSTRATION AMONG REPUBLICAN VOTERS. THEY DO NOT LIKE THEY ARE HAVING TO CONTINUE TO EXCUSE THIS STUFF. >> THAT'S REFLECTED IN THE NUMBERS FOR NIKKI HALEY. >> 30 POINTS. OVER 20%. INDIANA. BEEN OUT OF THE RACE FOR THREE MONTHS. WHAT'S GOING ON? >> THAT IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION IN TERMS OF HOW THE POLITICS OF THIS BEGINS TO GET RESHAPED, AS YOU HAVE REPUBLICANS GETTING THAT FOG OUT OF THEIR EYES AND GOING, THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION. THERE IS ANOTHER WAY AND FINDING THE PERMISSION STRUCTURE. WHICH IS IMPORTANT WHEN DEALING WITH AUTHORITIES TRYING TO CLAMPDOWN, LIKE YOU SAID, ON THE JUDICIARY AND OTHER ASPECTS OF THE GOVERNING SOCIETY, TO MAKE THEM LESS RELEVANT TO THE IDEA OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY IS ABOUT. THEREFORE, I NEED A STRONGMAN TO FIX IT. >> ABSOLUTELY. I WOULD GO FARTHER. TRUMP, UNCLE STRONGMAN, HAS A STRICT USE AND DISCARD ATTITUDE TOWARD PEOPLE. HE HAS USED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CYNICALLY TO TO POWER. HE HAS DOMINATED THEM AND MADE THEM HIS PERSONAL TOLL. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RNC, HE HAS LARA TRUMP, HIS DAUGHTER- IN-LAW WHICH IS TYPICAL AUTHORITARIAN THING. YOU PUT YOUR FAMILIES AND CRONIES IN CHARGE. HE WILL STARVE THE RNC AND MAKE IT HIS PERSONAL TOOLS ALL THE FUNDS HAVE TO GO TO REELECTING HIM AND PROBABLY FOR PAYING HIS PERSONAL LEGAL EXPENSES WHICH THE RNC HAS A HISTORY OF DOING. THOSE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BE LIKE PEOPLE I QUOTE IN MY BOOK WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE FASCIST PARTY, OFFICIALS OF THE FASCIST PARTY, SITTING IN JAIL BECAUSE THEY DID STOP
