Why education, not punishment, is the solution to reducing crime | John Lonergan | TEDxDublin

it is a judgment first of all I'm very honored and privileged to be given the opportunity at this evening to hear a little bit of my life experience which is very unique and different to most people and but like most people I'm sure when you think of prisons or if you went to go to work or do some thing in a prison I'm sure your beliefs and perceptions would be pretty similar and that I'm going to share my perceptions which with us I had way back in 1968 when I went to work in prison for the first time on the 8th of March in 1968 I was a scientist happened to Limerick prison is small little prison at the time in Moore Grove Street in prison and I went coming from Tipperary and grown up in the countryside was a very very black-and-white belief system and perception of prison and it was simply that all the baddies are in prison and all the goodies are outside and I was disillusioned within a week and because seriously what I found was the very opposite I found a small number of people in prison first of all only 47 in Limerick at the time there were only 600 in prison in Ireland at that time there's around 4,000 today with another thousand probably on temporarily so that gives you an idea over 40 years how the numbers have escalated but what I found were a laugh and with social misfits it reminded me of the population of a county home that were prevalent in Ireland at that time poor are misfortunes of people who had tough times and life was tough on them and there were more social rejects than they were criminals and from then on I began to question the perception and I began to do some work on it and over 40 years I spent over 40 years in the system and I'd hoped that my input will will raise awareness for you and make you more aware and maybe in question more the reality of our prison system our criminal justice system justice being at the centre of that and maybe a whole lot of issues around social issues as well that I believe should be questioned I think it's the one subject I'm always amazed at is crime and criminality it's the one subject that people very very very seldom especially people in authority very seldom question the causes and the reasons for it we react to it all the time on the basis of what's popular rather than what's right and that would be very much my experience and I want to force the client I want to make to you today is the absence of research and national research in particularly in Ireland around the whole criminal system and and the connection between criminality and the social circumstances of people and the education sector of the people is appallingly inadequate and the last decent piece of research that was wanted to believe it was only done in Mountjoy which is not Island at all only a tiny part of that at the prison population and that was done in 1996 so that's 18 years ago so if you're looking for pieces of researcher bits of information and something to base your arguments on and well then you have to go back 18 years to get anything that's really useful now that's a disgrace and we still plan on government still make policy on what are nothing it's like a definition once I came across about the contradictions between you know about vision and the said vision without action is the daydream but action without vision is a nightmare and we have a lot of the latter so I be my for cycle pint would be seeing that any chance you guess that you should be advocate especially at third level we have a wonderful portable education system in Ireland I'm sure there's huge numbers of students out there that would be only delighted to get involved in all different pieces of research to to bring forward some of the the realities of it and the connection between social deprivation poverty and criminality because they are absolutely totally linked now people you know often don't live when I was saying things like it's poor people generally speaking that end up in prison the world over would you believe it's not just Ireland the world over if you go into the prison populations the world over you will find huge numbers the vast vast numbers come from the poorest areas poverty-stricken areas in Ireland ninety seven percent of all prisoners come from the two low socio-economic groups that's a phenomenal figure ninety seven percent in Dublin City where and County where Mount Joy really when white I'm used to collect most of its its inmates from six tiny little areas in Dublin City not poster districts four tiny little areas in Dublin where the sources of 75% of all Dublin born prisoners that's another amazing figure I think that 75% of all people who are Dublin born that ended up in Mountjoy came from those six tiny little areas and what areas were they they were all areas of public housing local authority housing and usually big fat complexes and so my second little pint today is to tease to mention the significance of public service and local authority housing and the consequences are bad housing planning and I which goes so far as to say and des O'Malley said it five or six years ago in Limerick city when he got an honorary degree in Limerick University and you spoke about the social difficulties in Limerick City at the time and he said the the housing policy pursued in Limerick City by the local authorities over the last thirty years was a disaster I would echo that and I would say that generally speaking in all urban areas our public housing policy has been a disaster I don't know do you ever think about it but what we do is we create housing estates we put all the same social classes into them all the professionals that are needed in that community drive in and present and provide the services and then drive out again there's no integration there's no stability in the communities they're all one social class extremely poverty stricken people and so then little wonder that in many cases they fall by the wayside another figure that will will astound you an astonish you perhaps is that in Mount Joy when we did a survey in 1997 we discovered that only 7% 7 out of every hundred had stayed at education in education in Ireland after 16 years of age those 16 years of age in Ireland is very significant in education because that's the age that yet you're required to stay in school legally so after 16 you have a choice only 7% stayed in school after 60 57 % were gone by 15 and then no big surprise when when when a broader survey was done and discovered that 50% of all prisoners were illiterate our semi illiterate that's another amazing figure illiterate are semi-literate 50% so little wonder then that I am a great believer that education has a huge role to play in the whole change thing I want to also say that because I'm often accused if there's nothing I'm too worried about it but I want to say to you that I'm often accused of being softer I do good around whatever our making excuses for criminals this is nothing got to do with making excuses for criminals anybody who goes out and wrongs and damages another human being deserves to be punished I'm not are not anywhere short of seeing that bluntly you cannot allow people to go out and damage other people and injure other people or to rob from other people up to destroy other people's property that is not the point the point is that once we look at the population and that the evidence is there ways that we can reduce the number of people committing crime and if we can say yes to that will automatically reduce the numbers of victims and is far better to prevent people being victims of criminality rather than responding to it which we do I'm going to tell you a few little stories and that are real stories but I think there is a little message in them and the first little story I want to tell you is about an and was a young woman lovely person lovely personality which he spent a lot of her hornier year from about 15 onwards in prison in those days 15 year-olds could go to prison and nowadays you have to be over 18 to be sent to prison and when we were closing down the old prison which was built in in 1850 18 in Mountjoy as it happened it was Christmas week around about the Wednesday I went to visit the prison and I was going through the compound of this woman that I knew young woman and came to me and she said hi you're close in the prison on Saturday and I said yes and she said I'm going to lock the gate for the last time I said no no no no no that's my job I got to lock the gate I was joking now oh she came back immediately and said I'm entitled to do it and that really did strike me immediately when you see here someone in prison saying I'm entitled to do you're inclined to pay attention so I said why are you at entitled to do and this is her response my grandmother served time here my mother served time here all my sisters bear wounds served time my dad is in prison and all my brothers this is true and my response was yeah you sure are entitled to lock the gate for the last time and she did on Christmas Eve she turned the old key and then on the gears of the women's prison for the last time we took an instant photograph of her the next morning was Christmas morning and there was mass in the new prison in the door cousins and Bishop Eamonn Walsh some of our you'll know Bishop Amon was he was the chaplain in the women's prison for many many years and in my time used to come back every Christmas to celebrate Mass on Christmas morning and of course and knew him very well from his time in the prison so she sat at the front today at the meadow during the mass and with our little photograph and the very minute masses over she ran up to me she said Bishop Haven I shut down the women's prison yesterday she was as proud as punch I shut down the women's prison yesterday her only claim to fame really and you might be wondering because I bet you are wondering how come one sister was not in prison well she was actually for not serving a prison sentence she was actually in prison because her mother was in prison pregnant and she was actually born while her mother was still serving a prison sentence so while she wasn't old enough to serve a prison sentence she already had prison experience an end story is not unique most people I often tell the story as well to give you an idea when I go to middle-class or upper-class which I do a lot to secondary schools to talk about justice and social issues and all that sort of stuff to students in second-level you know the other time I go into a middle class or an upper-class school and the teacher my first Pony surprise there's a by that cousin his dad is in prison what does the girl in that class or does his dad is in prison because I go into the class chat to them for an hour or whatever to be camara and never know the person of the person would never come near it now on the other hand when I go to a very socially disadvantaged area where most of the people who go to prison come from I'm not in the classroom a second when all the lads are around me do you know my dad do you know ev'rything I want to mention culture culture is powerful for all of us by the way for every single one of us the culture we're born into the culture we growing open has a huge influence sometimes that's a very positive influence and I'm afraid sometimes it's a very negative influence but culture has a powerful influence and while in the middle class and upper class ian is the child would be mortified in the poorer areas the child is almost boasting another statistic that would frighten you and Aniyah and should really cause difficulties and and and arouse a reaction is that 77% of people in Mount char that's over three-quarters of them spend time as young people 16 to 21 year olds in st. Patrick's Detention Center I think that's another disgraceful figure that three-quarters of all young people who go into detention graduates instead of graduating from second level education they graduate to Mount Joy that's depressing as well 10 things change education is the answer and not an academic education exclusively education in a general term social education personal education with some academic education I've often said that we're very good in Ireland generally speaking at educating people on how to make a living we are not as good at educating people on how to live and especially in socially disadvantaged areas a lot of the difficulties go back and find their roots in the lack of education or the absence of education along with opportunity because my lastly compliance lies is around opportunity I'm certain of this I'm absolutely certain and I know nobody in this in this in this theater but I'm fairly certain of this that every single person here owes their success and their progress in life to other people as much as to themselves somebody identified your talent when you were young somebody not sure didn't and encourage you and facilitated you and all along life many people intervene and support you and help you on your way there's no such thing as a self-made person every single one of us depend on somebody else our did our will future a woman in Mount Joy many years ago writing in it the junkyard which is a book published by Marsha hunt about prisoners in Mount Joy she wrote a little preamble which is so with your so powerful she rose I alone was doers but I cannot do it alone I think that would apply to every single one of us so I started with a story and I going to finish with a little story about why how an individual person can change a life this young man and Jonathan was his name he was 20 years of age he looked 12 he was it was imprisoned in Mountjoy he was there for a few weeks and he wandered into the music class and Larry the teacher was teaching a class but Larry's miss him and he said yeah what do you want he said I I just heard the music I want I just came up a printer well he said I'm teaching a class he said here's my guitar play with that and when I'm finished I'll come back to you and Larry was on teaching his class then he herded Jonathan plucking at the guitar when he went back he said we're children music until John said I never learn music so where'd you learn it played the guitar I said never learned guitar as a matter of fact I never had any is musical instrument in my hand and he came up to me and he said could you give me I was governor Mountjoy to him is it could you give me a hundred and 69 euro myself for worden he said I want to buy a guitar for a genius that's down in the prison so we bought him the guitar and he went on to study music he left Mel John went under third level education to study classical music a couple of years ago I was down in that glowing one eyes and this woman approached me at the end of a talk to parents and she said do you remember him naming and I said of course that you she said he's teaching classical music today the person I want to emphasize is not him Jonathan but Larry the guy who kept his eyes and ears open and said look I can make a difference I'm in a theater I've always wanted to be in the theater and perform I never got the chance until today and so I think it's very appropriate that I finish off doing a short licking performance because this is a little reflection but I actually is very serious it's a little reflection that I hope will connect with every single one of you is it a song one time I recorded by Bob Dylan is read by Felix and is called they are put for fortune and it goes show me the prison show me the jail show me the prisoner whose life has gone stale and I'll show you an old man with so many reasons why there but for fortune go you or I show me the alley show me the Train show me the hobo who sleeps out in the rain and I'll show you young man with so many reasons why there but for fortune oh you are I show me the whiskey stains on the floor show me the drunkard as he stumbles out the door I show you a man with so many reasons why they are but for fortune or you are I show me the contrary where the buns had to fall show me the ruins of the buildings won't so tall and I'll show you your man with so many reasons why fear but for fortune who you are I thank you very much you

Channel: TEDx Talks

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Keywords: Social Justice, Global Issues, Politics, Law, tedx talks, tedx talk, English, Ireland, Culture, Public Policy, ted talks, tedx, ted x, ted talk, TEDxTalks, Criminology, ted

Id: f_4zW6y69l0

Length: 16min 14sec (974 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 01 2014