Why Be An Artist When There's AI? - Draftsmen S4E01

hi there Stan what up brother man Stan the the greatest of cheers and good wishes to you as a human being and as a professional and as the founder and uh principal and best friends of Proco and best friends yes and every just everything everything just yeah thank you sir oh okay maybe we should roll the intro now that we got that out of the way yeah welcome back to the podcast Marshall I have returned from Beyond the Veil to discuss a matter of vast intelligence not the pathetic intelligence that your meat machine can produce but a different sort of intelligence intelligence of the artificial variety that's right Marshall we're revisiting the most unpopular topic of this podcast There Is No Escape Marshall Embrace Your Fate what was the last time erase your fate oh it did not sound like that no I thought I thought he said unbraith your fight embrace your fight prepare to fight when did you record that I did not tell me more anticipation oh man that was AI that was Ai and those artificial intelligence what do you do well embrace the embrace your embrace your fight that's what you do Jim Brice our fight Marshall yes Dan I wish we had your voice well maybe someday yeah we didn't get permission from Marshall which means we have to just use a different tool but we don't have to get written consent oh oh schnapps oh we're gonna talk about legal implications of all this probably ethical implications we're going to talk about opportunities creativity what's going to happen in the future the way the world's going to end yeah this is going to be a three hour special people will love it the way they love the other ones you know what we were weights we we we were we were way too early you were ahead of the time nobody cared nobody because their job wasn't on the line yet everybody cares now yeah no not everybody well some people aren't paying attention oh yeah but that was the script it's not even an AI app this was this is just a podcasting app that you can edit your podcasts I mean it's used for a lot of things but I think the main thing is like you you can podcast you record your voice it transcribes it for you and then you edit your podcast you can edit with a text with the text you don't even have to have a video or audio editor you just like delete the words or you move them around and it changes the audio for you it just moves the audio clips around but they recently added the AI voice so that if you want to actually change the words that you say you can change it and it sounds like it sounds real Christian told me about the the podcast app but the problem I have with it is you put in that text and it reads it it doesn't have any emotion that's making the inflection you sound like everybody else five years ago it's not good right now but it will of course of course it will but you know it's I guess the reason I said that is not that I'm negating what the future is it's just that I wouldn't want to do it right now well because you you want to wait till it's all perfect for you yeah so you're a late adapter no but a a not an earlier no I'm definitely adapter on time adapter well this is a good question how do you define on time for adopting a new thing oh by the curve hardly anybody's using it and then when it rises I'm usually on it right at about the time that it's it's taking off you like to Crest that wave yeah now it means less trouble that's now but I'm gonna wait it's right uh when it's taking I'm gonna wait also I don't have any real use for it right now okay at least not that I know I mean that is definitely a prerequisite you need to be interested to use it in the first place but yeah okay what's going on with you Stan I recently launched the drawing Basics course huh yeah this is the drawing Basics course for beginners at drawing so that they will be ushered into this discipline well yeah it's kind of weird I've never made a course for beginners you've been planning it for a long time supposed to be you know like the drawing resource that people are trying to learn how to draw and like you I'm starting them off with figure drawing yeah that's true well you got the street cred yeah so this is for absolute beginners who are just starting out this is the very first class you could take and you won't be intimidating you're not going to be you know drawing people characters we're gonna draw humanoid characters but we're not gonna try to you know shade realistic we're gonna Venture into that a little bit introduce that kind of thing but I want this to be a course that people take two times just to get a little double whammy yeah so every project that I give and this is a very project heavy course is going to have two skill levels the first one is level one which is for the absolute beginner this is the first time you're taking it you do the the easy one and then if you're kind of an intermediate person um who has been drawing for a little bit but you're trying to fine-tune your fundamentals I'll give you a more challenging one so that you know we're practicing shape design you could practice it on a more challenging subject so it's the same course with different levels of challenge because I'm teaching fundamental skills that apply no matter what skill level what what profession you're in these same fundamentals apply throughout everything so you could practice you should be practicing all these fundamentals throughout your entire career that's good thinking yeah is that something you came up with recently or did you have that kind of yeah I've never heard you say that before and that sounds good this was this was this year within this year that I added that to the course yeah so you can revisit it without being bored the reason is because I know that there's a lot of people that are dancing around the intermediate areas of drawing and the things that are holding them back are uh Missing You Know holes in their fundamentals and they will not want to take a beginner course because it kind of challenges their ego and so I want to make try to encourage them to take a Basics course like this because fundamentals if you have holes in those that's going to keep you from getting to that Master Level that sounds good it sounds like uh there there's even an advantage for doing this later rather than 10 years ago because you know more and you're also aware that this is true yeah you've shown me in the outline oh thank you yeah so it's all on pre-sale now we'll start it in January okay cool it's running a quicker.com can you can you make the AI say it proco.com drawing no the whole pitch that I just did see who did it better Proco Dash broke but I said it four times broco.com drawing yeah I wish drawing Brooklyn drawing lessons from the Great Master Heinrich Clyde taught by me Saturdays in January 2023 go to martialart.com okay well I have a question for you yeah uh this Basics course that you're doing is to teach people how to draw by hand so that they can sit down and imagine something and draw it or observe something and add some interpretation to it it's a human activity this drawing thing that goes way back before technology what's the point in a world where artificial intelligence has been introduced and what's the point of drawing when the machines can do it so well here's how I think about it I don't have a an answer for everybody everyone's going to have a different reason for drawing but the way I look at it is that drawing is a visual language it's a form of communication and just because a robot can speak doesn't mean we should stop speaking good okay statement yeah because you want to communicate with somebody next to you or with people across the country or the world whatever you want to say something with a picture and being fluent in the visual language is very helpful it can be sometimes it's more powerful your message is more powerful when it's said visually then with words or with you know with speech or with text if you create an image you can say that exact thing that you're trying to say now I know some people think well well you can just write that in the prompt and the AI will make that image for you but not necessarily I mean not yet at least and it might be a long time until you can say and get that exact thing that you're visualizing but right now in order to get the picture you're visualizing you have to well first of all it's impossible because it's got its own mind but to get even something really close you have to spend like 30 minutes trying out all these different prompts and eventually like okay yeah that's kind of close uh but how do I change it to change this one thing by the time you've gotten the thing that you want it could have been better for you to just draw your thing depends on how complex your picture is yeah the intent isn't very important like if you're trying to create an illustration or your novel that has got a very specific character they have to have a very specific expression on their face they have to be holding something very specific the costume and there's a specific background you know very specific things that are related to your story you can't you can't currently use the tools to make that exact picture it will happen I don't have a clear picture of why or how but I just I feel like speaking is still worth it yeah yeah okay let's let's grant that and then say yeah but I want to make a living as a professional artist how will I ever compete with AI compete for a job or compete for making a living for money that people are going to pay me when AI can just it's like uh it's John Henry and the Machine it's how are you going to compete with the machine unfortunately I think some jobs will just go away like this isn't all like happy like good news for everybody yeah I think this is bad news for a lot of people can you be more specific like companies will just not hire an artist to do a certain specific job when an AI could do it cheaper and faster yeah like why what is what would be a reason why a company would hire an artist if an AI will do it cheaper and faster because companies are filled with good heart no people who want to no there is no reason yeah the the only potential reason is quality could be higher well there's well actually there's more reasons one is brand brand just because it's that artist because it's that artist and this artist really did it yes but for most commercial purposes yes exactly most commercial purposes doesn't it doesn't make it in fact it is the people who have the the most recognizable image branding that can be the most easily ripped off because their stuff is a specific style that AI can say I get that style and it can run with it uh and and even right now there are several concept artists who it's are are filling the is it the database or the reference base what do they call it where the information comes from training data the training data yeah do you know who Dave McKean is no he's a British illustrator and and create he's a designer and writer and all sorts of things but he was one of that wave of what people call the British Invasion of the 1980s in in uh in graphic novels and and lots of other things he was worked with Neil Gaiman and he was part of he's part of that group of Alan Moore and Grant Morrison and all them he did the same man covers right yeah yeah and Dave McKean is a versatile remarkable illustrator he did they did a two and a half hour interview with him just a month or two ago that is worth the two and a half hours I'd say an hour plus of the content is relevant to anyone who cares about this he has extremely ambivalent feelings about AI to the point of where he he's he just Illustrated a graphic novel with it he thinks it's amazing but he also says that he's he's fearful that it is uh it needs to be uninvented and that uh it's a bit like when you introduce a virus bomb into a computer or a system of computers to see what happens to see how vulnerable they are but this is he thinks like introducing a virus bomb into the world into a culture and uh that you can be extremely optimistic about it extremely pessimistic about it and I think that's why it's sort of dividing the culture and to those who see everything that can go wrong and those who see everything that can grow right and there's a few people like Dave McKean who are able to see both but also have have a lot of concern yeah I'm kind of on that boat I think I could see pretty clearly what will happen I've been following this for many years now I know but I'm also kind of excited you know because I've been doing it for for a while yeah I'm torn it's really two completely opposite feelings towards it well it's been two and a half years since you and I had a conversation had conversations about it on this podcast yeah so I what I'm interested in is between then and now I was not interested in AI particularly because it was too was too new you know it's in the experimental stages people aren't using it and Kirsten zern Gibble did a presentation at lightbox on Sunday where she crammed three hours of content into one hour on AI that is stuff she's been working with it since I think 2015 and she showed the different apps that have been introduced and the years they came out and she said notice that most of these are coming out in 2022 so all of a sudden everybody knows what it is and consumers are using it and they're having opinions about Dolly and mid-journey and and stable diffusion and whatever these other apps are I have not used it I'm not going to use it in the next year but I my conversations with almost every colleague and with almost every with every colleague almost every human being that have been conversations for half hour an hour is almost been exclusively about Ai and how it is affecting and will affect uh the profession the art making profession uh mainly and and just life but uh it has really been a surge of of cultural interest and Mayhem so how do you want to go about this there's so much to talk about there's categories we could talk about there's too too much to structure it if I if we try to structure it we're going to make a a three-hour podcast yeah I think we need to just jump around and see where we end and we might need to do another part Christian did have a structure oh yeah I could quickly say what it is she started with her history and how she she's done remarkable work without Ai and then how uh she's had an industry of being interested in it and then she showed that what the uh the different apps and how to work with it how to simplify naming conventions so that some apps have some strengths and some weaknesses and tips for using them because she's been experiencing only like five six seven of them and then uh the opportunities what you can do with this how to work with it and then the ethical and legal stuff so it was the warnings came at the end she was very much focused on the credit because her enthusiasm for it yeah is really high but she has a very realistic view of the fact one of the things that she told me is that it's a liar's dream yeah yeah there's pitfalls there's things to watch out for there's things can go that can go wrong there's things that can be really exciting that can help there's so much this is such a game changer it is it's gonna have really bad and really good sides to it and it's like there's no other way you can't have such a game changer without extreme positive negatives when she first told me about it I wouldn't actually wasn't the first time she told me about it several years ago and had me give her some of my work so she could show what to do and I thought okay that's interesting but it was just a few months ago he said Marshall this is bigger than that she this is as big as photography or uh taking over lithography he said is it as big as digital taking over she says it's that big now as I've been hearing people talk about it I think it's bigger than any of those things so I think it's the biggest thing that has happened in my lifetime it's just that it's in its infancy and so we're we're only seeing the beginning of it it's extending Beyond art this is not just Ai and R this is AI and all intelligent things we do that's why it's bigger if it was just in art it would not be the big the internet would be much more influence a friend and I tried to figure out what would not be affected by AI at least I think well maybe maybe massage I thought no massage will be affected by it what about what kind of food preparation food preparation will deep everything there's nothing that it isn't going to affect as it matures it's coming for everything yeah but so yeah what you were going to say something well uh some people are very focused on the ethical and legal issues uh as they should be yes and I'm very grateful that they're doing it because though the negative the extreme negatives can be potentially padded a little bit if you start early soften the blow right um do you know Carla Ortiz yeah yeah yeah and you know that she she is a champion of let's try to do this let's try to do this ethically which is the only way anyone that's trying to stop it is just wasting their time the only way forward is to try to do what she's doing which is under realize that there's no way you can stop it and let's just figure out the right way to do it and call people out they're doing it wrong they're taking advantage of other people whenever there's a new technology there's always this like wild west there's no consequences for doing bad things and you always have to get past that in order for an industry to mature and become beneficial for more people Christian gave a list of a spectrum of seven things number one don't use AI at all number seven is use AI for anything and Commercial profit from other people's work without any consequences and so the Spectrum and she said she hovers around three which is three is what uh number three would be I can't remember exactly but there was but one of them was do not use living artists do not reference living artists why limit it to living artists because after an artist dies someone else still has the rights to that's right that's copyright right and it can hurt Whoever has that right it could be a whole group of people which would be just a little gradation there of don't use living artists for the last hundred years or that then it becomes public yeah yeah but there is a gradation on there and people will make up their decisions we've already seen I've already seen in my life people who are at number one and people are at number seven that does make any difference I'm going to use this and uh I don't want anything to do with it so the the Spectrum the fact that she took the time to go through that Spectrum made you recognize that we've got we've got something that can slide and that needs to be worked out yeah do you want to talk more about that kind of thing or what did you what did you want to talk about with AI Marshall have you played around with any of the tools that everyone's talking about no but Dorian Eaton in a Skype call asked me to give it a prompt okay and I said Windsor McKay and African architecture and in a matter of few seconds he showed me I think it was three or four iterations one of which I recognized right away which image of McKay's it was referencing and they were things I would have never predicted and I remember I thought about it since then I thought that was extraordinary uh how it it made combinations I would have never guessed yeah and and I did the same just now by the way oh really so you'll get yeah I just did a cover illustration of a podcast with Two Hosts at a table with microphones by Dave McKean really yeah all right after you mentioned David Keane I did it can you be more specific draftsman podcast illustrated by uh I felt like it wouldn't know a Dresden font because it would just take the word draftsman okay and probably somehow incorporate it so your experience with this enough to know what prompts work and what problems the art of the prompt is a whole other skill I think people need to learn okay maybe that maybe we should wait a little bit oh wow so scroll scroll down what a trip yeah there's a but like it gives you several what a true and you can keep iterating and that happened in seconds yeah specifically I'm using mid journey and we'll show it on the screen um it gave me four options and I just upscaled all four did you just violate Dave McCain's rights by doing that um no me as a user I don't think so I think that um the violation would potentially have been using his his copyright material in the in training the algorithm not in using the tools I don't know because you're saying because I used his name in my prompt right well I guess this is comp This is complicated that's a complicated question man yeah so you're saying where does the responsibility fall the people training the data making the tool or the people using the tool or both or both man well I I I'm asking out of curiosity genuinely Dave McCain's unlikely to watch the draftsman podcast yeah but uh it makes me wonder if you use anybody's name in a prompt how much you are violating stealing from uh referencing them I mean if you use Norman Rockwell in a prompt is the Norman Rockwell Foundation or the the uh estate yeah I wonder where the law will settle on this the I feel like it must be dependent on how you use what the results you get like if I do if I use his name and then I get a result and then I use it commercially maybe I am violating his well that would sure sound like it yeah yeah if I'm just doing it for fun like right now I'm not gonna do anything to make money off of that yeah actually we aren't making money off of this podcast anymore we dropped all sponsorships this isn't that great so yeah I don't think I'm doing a quick commercial thinking let me tell you what I'm clear yeah as a non-user I'll tell you what I've observed every article that people have sent me to where they do and I'm talking about mainstream media yeah every article they've sent me to is focused on the how it's going to affect industries I'm talking about art in particular yeah and and legal issues one and and the metaphors they choose because metaphors just calling it AI in a way you're using a metaphor you're saying it's a machine with a brain but uh wonderful machine learning yeah that's the method one of the metaphors was that it is a washing machine of intellectual properties yeah which tells you nothing about how to use it but it does tell you that if you got a group of people that are all putting their stuff in the same washing machine or people stealing and putting it into the same washing machine you're going to end up with socks that get the red stain from somebody else's sweater and all that and so what it's really pointing to is that as a washing machine of intellectual properties it is pointing to the legal profession we're going to need millions of lawyers we're going to need to train AI as an attorney yeah to decide who owns what and how you're going to sort through that complex laundry it doesn't give us any hints that is the thing that is on almost everybody's mind and it's in all the articles is how it's going to yank people's jobs away and what I mentioned earlier if you have a recognizable Style every 10 to 20 years the carpet gets yanked out from under people who have had secure professions and the people who are damaged the most by the yanking are the ones who've had their feet most steadily on the carpet and when it gets yanked there are going to be people others say hey we can get on it now and start to do their their things so there is this there's this cultural revolution that some people will embrace it some people will be ruined by it some people will be uh like what I'm doing I want to watch I am interested in what every professional is responding to it and I've seen the whole Spectrum I have a thought here go ahead potentially what is the difference between a human mind looking at several artists absorbing all of that information putting it into their washing machine brain and then spitting out their own version of those Styles we talk about art parents influencing our own thing we as humans steal from each other constantly we do not reinvent the wheel every time we work yeah and then when you look at my quick sketch yeah it is Eric and Jeff I am just I know pretty much a child of their their work my question I don't I don't have an answer but my question is how different is it for a machine to do the same thing that our brain already does to take that information mush it all around combine it and spit out a totally new thing that was not Dave mckean's work that was just inspired by I understand hey this is future Stan here just wanted to let you know that this episode was recorded like the same day that Steven Zapata released his video talking about a bunch of the ethical issues of AI and he addressed the thing that I just brought up and he did a really good job so I probably want to get him on and update this conversation a little bit just FYI we did not listen to his episode before we recorded this and I wish we did okay back to it so I don't again I don't know I'm just wondering like is it really does he own the copyright to that final result the product so me as a user of the tool am I actually imposing on his copyright or was it really just the Train the people that took his actual paintings and used it in training data yeah now I I remember there were a couple illustrations in fact one of them attended Drew struzanne's week-long Workshop in 1985 who made their careers they made their their illustration careers imitating his style I'm imitating it absolutely and Drew said I imitate other people's Styles but I only I only take from people who are already dead and that's impossible you take from people whether you know it or not he was very conscious about that but okay here's the thing I I don't know the answer to your question but I'm going to take a stab at it because I think there is something to consider what you're asking what is the difference between a human mind doing it and AI doing it yeah okay I'm gonna I'm gonna speculate and this is improvisation AI is new and because it's new we don't know what's going to happen AI is not human and there may be a difference you play with your kid you play with your kid Everybody Plays with their kid every kid you play with a lion cub I'm taking this analogy from C.S Lewis you play with a lion cub and it is fun but that's before it's tasted human blood and and he mentioned uh he wrote a book called the abolition of man that people have been uh referencing and it doesn't I don't know how much it has to do with this C.S Lewis's book the abolition of man is mainly about the fact the classically education was about training people not just in technical skill not even primarily in technical skill but in in moral discernment about what is the good life what is good what is best for us to do with our technical skills are you saying people should not be allowed to play with lion cubs no no no no no this was in a separate essay and I'm sorry I'm doing all this from memory he was pointing out that the Sciences when they began in that in that revolution of where science it's working it was it was a trick if she can do cool stuff with it but it was not until it started we started to our arrange our lives around what we could make and the first science fiction writer was right on the heels of that Mary wallstone craft Shelley wrote Frankenstein in when she was like 18 in the early 19th early 1800s and you can make an argument that almost all science fiction is Frankenstein is that we create something with our Sciences with our technology that we cannot control that becomes bigger than what we can control so it's a staple of Science Fiction now I want to go back to the I I wandered off the train of thought the train of thought being AI is not human so we may be entertaining something that is a beast that will eat Us Alive and we cannot predict we can speculate but we cannot predict some people will be better predictors than others of where this is going and so there is a legitimate concern that it's it's it's going to do what it does in ways we don't know yet so we ought to at least prepare for that when I asked the question I think it specifically pertained to the ethics of using someone's copyright I wonder what Carla would think she's got such a high ethical sensibility of here's what's right and here's what is and she's given so much energy to that yeah I'd be interested to hear what she'd say about it yeah I think it's pretty clear already that there's risks to this it's it is like playing with them lion cub and it's it's even more than that it's not that there's a risk it's a guaranteed there's guaranteed bad things to happen people just will use it for evil yeah they're energized by whoa we could do this with it it's just inevitable so I guess my energy because I'm talking about it not I mean nothing we're going to say on this podcast is gonna history isn't gonna hinge on this but but people's careers and our relationships with people the people we're working with a lot can hinge on that I have people in my life who are so upset about it that I feel like expressing any enthusiasm for what it could do is a is a breach of ethical concern it's like you do not start speculating how fun it'll be to play with this lion cub when it's going to kill your family and so I've I've felt a little anxiety everyone's got their freedom to take their own risks yeah you just have to think about effects that your actions could have on other people I don't think that me saying this is bad and me not using it will change anything go over that list of things that you were talking one of the most prompts the the the creativity of prompts and the prom the art of the prompt the art of the prompt that's one topic trademark it's it's been documented yeah I said first on the draftsman don't use it in your AI the art of the prompt yeah I think I think prompt design or whatever is um is a skill that people maybe not our generation because they're opposed to it but as AI just becomes a part of everyone's life prompt design is going to be something that everyone is going to learn communicating with AI how do you say what you want it to do in the way that it will understand and give you the results you want and that is a skill Ted is also an art form it is a skill Christian said that uh it's it's all art all artists are going to become art directors so verbal communication becomes really important in visual communication so people writers people who speak well people who understand the language and subtlety of words will be better at this yeah I see it people who are creative with their words will be better at this this is an interesting thing I saw recently where a company was showing initial tests of their thing that it was um oh it was actually Facebook it was meta they were showing their animation AI where film AI you you give it a prompt and it gives you a movie not a not a picture a clip could be up to like two minutes long uh and one of the prompts was like a a bear at New York right this is something that humans wrote I was like at New York at New York instead of in New York they obviously chose to use the word at yeah because they probably tried in New York and they were getting uh the bear actually in the city where they actually just wanted to bear or I forgot what it was actually but he wanted it like in the water outside of New York so they probably used the word Ian and it was like in the city all the time and they're like no uh we wanted to be at New York the choice of preposition of Buy in at around is important yeah and just creative words that could add a little flavor of something into the visual so some people learn to work with the uh the beginner another another metaphor Kirsten used was uh every artist every art director now has a junior pocket artist that can do anything give me four of these yeah four of these give me four of these some will communicate with it better than others yeah I'd like to give an example of a potential benefit okay again reminder to those who think any uh optimism is bad I don't know I'm just exploring okay but potentially one thing I thought of is uh you so people talk about the democratization of art right so it definitely is bad for artists but for the majority of humans who are not artists this could be beneficial let's say you are a writer we could go with other examples but let's just say you're writing a book okay right you're not a visual artist you're you're doing something else and you don't have enough money to hire an artist to illustrate your cover so usually you'd have to partner with some publisher to or or or yeah publisher to create the cup to hire someone to create the cover and work with you and you give up most of your ownership of this thing that you wrote but now you can use a tool to decorate your product because really the main item the main thing you made here is the story you wrote and the cover is decoration not always sometimes the art can be very much part of it but doesn't have to be but the illustration exists because of the story yes the writer can choose whether they want to partner with another artist because it's important in whatever they're creating or if it really is just decoration where it's like I need a cover because it's part of selling a book and I can make it good enough and I don't need to partner with another artist or hire an artist and so they can now they're enabled to create a book and have a good enough cover maybe not yet maybe put a few years from now they could have a cover that's really good nice looking that goes with their story and they can sell it and self-publish I don't think artists or anybody being able to create and do their own thing is a is bad like the internet did a lot of bad things to society but it also enabled a lot of us to be able to make a living being our own artists like me I'm able to teach without without a TV studio and without a radio station and all the other things that were limited yeah yeah a lot of artists everyone at these conventions that we go to they are able to have an audience because of the internet right so there's a lot of things that happened in the past few decades that have just enabled abled people to do things on their to create their own careers without giving everything up to a large corporation that does it all for them okay I think that AI could I don't freaking know but it could lead to some more of that for people who are not visual artists yeah I think it will for exploration's sake let's flip it around okay yeah I'm an illustrator I've done this amazing illustration yeah I need a writer I'm not a writer I'm going to feed this illustration into Ai and have it concoct some stories and it's like whoa I do not ever need a writer again maybe not now okay but in a few years yeah and I'm an artist I don't I can't afford a writer so either way if they AI didn't exist I would not make anything at all I would not write a story or I would just write a really crappy story when we go nowhere but now I could use my skill of creating a visual thing and have a good story that goes along with it and now I can have a path forward and then once I make enough money I can maybe partner with a a writer and or pay a writer to do a better job or just a more genuine human job let me tell you what I smell in this kind of conversation I know I smell fear yes I smell uh concern that there this is going to be a polarizing thing to even bring up it goes back to my concern of do you show any enthusiasm for the positive do you only show dread for the negative I'll tell you personally if I think about the negative side of AI I don't know that emotionally I would want to go in that direction for too long but sorry it's just too terrifying things AI in general yeah AI in general because you're talking about something that when it accelerates I understand that the consumer AIS for example don't know perspective that well they don't really understand rendering in perspective that they they're trying to figure things out by looking at flat things and and trying to get some logic about how gradations happen but if that's the case how long would it take for AI to learn everything that blender and Maya and zbrush and everything else now in a few hours a few weeks a few months a few weeks Kirsten is putting in her own work training it on her own work and having her give it iterations of Honor which that does sound really exciting I said it's like seeing a caricature of your own words trained it on my voice right yeah and and that seems to me perfectly ethical to do that yeah I own my voice uh right uh but I I said can you can you make it so that it'll take I can do some watercolor washes use that texture and take some line quality use that line quality take some rendering Styles where you might put the core Shadows away on the edges as opposed to in the middle and I understand no it's not that sophisticated now and it'll be quite a while before it is because it does not really understand abstract Concepts like we do it understands abstract Concepts but it understands them if we're looking for metaphors it is like a two-year-old to me it is audacious Fearless we'll try this try this try this it's occasionally brilliant as two-year-olds are but a lot of stupidity I've had some students try to work with it for generating thumbnails for illustration projects and the results have been quite disappointing because it's so derivative it's all it knows it to do is to do another thing like that do another thing like that and do everything like that but that doesn't mean it's all derivative I think it's kind of pointless to mention the quality of the current AI like yeah well because you're just talking about the current state of it right right now it's a two-year-old but next year it's a 15 year old like right so what's what's the point of saying it's a two-year-old let me go back to the thing that prompted all this I think that our conversation on this is aware that people could get really upset because I was talking about what was what I'm enthusiastic about with this so yeah I don't really care if someone has an opinion on my opinions well I have opinion on your opinions of my opinion like what do we not have freedoms to have opinions now anymore because someone else has a different opinion I'm interested though and what is the best paradigm for how to discuss this I'm trying to categorize I'm trying to say we've got the legal issues the ethical issues the light like Kirsten did but then there is this one thing look what you can do that you couldn't do before and is if if people are going to use it for evil are any of us going to put energy into trying to use it for good A lot of people will but do both but getting mad for someone to talk about it and try to balance look on both sides I think is really immature let's go back to the nft thing how did people respond to this well it's a very similar thing but I don't want to take it into the NFC territory but it is very very parallel things that happened there is very polarizing some people are immature about it some people are more neutral some you know it whatever if you get mad for people to try to explore both sides of it and tried to come up with a a clear picture of where to go then you're leaving only the people who don't care enough to explore both sides okay I got you to lead the way that makes sense so why would why would you do that well I'm even a little concerned that 10 years from now ai is going to know what I said on the draftsman podcast say oh she thought I was a two-year-old huh cute oh yeah and then what we'll just Resurrection to torture you again no it's it's silly to attack people for having thoughts on this that's that's one thing that I saw with the nft thing is people were attacking innocent artists for even using it I'm unfollowing you because you mentioned the word nfts like how old are you like are you not able to have an intelligent adult conversation anymore that like anyone that has a different opinion you just like you attack them immediately yeah but that's a sort of the Zeitgeist right now is that it's uh yeah that's a big problem I think that's a bigger problem it's bigger problems so we won't talk about that but back to tell me what you've done with it where yes okay well I did that perspective box thing that a a long time ago which I was disappointed in because it didn't really understand perspective it only knows some things about it and I'm also not an angle AI engineer or whatever yeah um I work I was working with some but I've paused that project but anyway since then there's been a lot more new tools uh the first one I started exploring was disco diffusion I quickly at the time realized that this was not available yet to everybody because it's difficult to use you have to kind of learn how to code in order to really have full control of it so like I installed it locally I took the script because they they just kind of give you the script and it was running on Google collab or something like that um but I took the script I installed it locally and I started running locally and then me and my cousin we made a queuing system so we kind of modified the script to be able to queue up multiple prompts like hundreds if you want and I haven't run at night because one big thing that I noticed was like in order to really get good at this prompt thing was to try out hundreds of thousands of prompts and just learn quickly with what works how does it react like input output I need feedback what what leads to what if you're just sitting there typing and waiting and then type another one wait it takes a long time to really get a lot of feedback to just queue up a few hundred and the next morning you have all these results so using AI to generate all the No No we we did later we used um openai to generate prompts that we then fed into disco infusion and we created a um a Discord Channel motion machine we created a Discord channel that it would just uh post all the results in the Discord so we would just like check in everyone else and we're like oh those are cool prompts these are cool images it was fun um but then after I realized damn it's really time consuming to create all these prompts to queue up yeah so let's create a batching thing where I can put a bunch of keywords of styles and subject matter and it will create a prompt a version of each possible combination and it would be thousands I created a like a series where you can take um like a logo let's just say the Proco logo like the p and then you can say you can feed that as like an initial image it will blur it and it will start that as like the image it needs to modify and make it closer to the prompt this go diffusion allowed you to do that kind of give you a blur start with an image and then push it towards something okay so I can take a picture of your face and say a young man and it will change it and it'll it'll it'll try to push it closer to a young man which actually would be funny let's try that it would be yeah I wonder whether it's guess would be at all close if you compared to my young face and maybe yeah well that's actually pretty it'll it also just generates something different every time you try it so it's kind of you know random but um I tried I took Christian's face and I put like pimple faced like ugly something I just gave it like all these negative things and it was it was pretty funny um but back to my so you can take the Proco logo you can um give it a bunch of different colors different variations of the the thing and then you can create a prompt template that's like this style with this subject matter so you just say this is a an ocean of fish or some koi a koi pond and then you give it a style it's like picasso-ish or whatever or it's like Rockwell or fashion and you create these thousands of combinations and then you just batch it all and then you get these beautiful images of like the Proco logo yeah with it's like a an ocean but it's the the love it's really cool it was really exciting to see that because like a human wouldn't I mean they could but it would take them years to do this but like right um now me I would never hire an artist to do this but it's really exciting too to see that yeah oh yeah then after disco uh right as I was doing that a mid-journey came out and this is when you discovered it I think Christians started sending you stuff that's right so this one was just just this year this is the summer yeah yeah um and there I started creating this is when I started collaborating with AI this is when I was like this is fun to paint over these because I created like a series of little skull renderings in different themes and then it would always have problems with it like the skull would have like 17 eyes or something I'd like the nostril was actually it looked like another eye or it had like four or five holes in the notch yeah then sorry the nasal cavity without the nostrils um and it just it would look like warts or something like this is weird but like the overall composition is wonderful and so I took Lane Brown's uh well he has a brush back that he gave me that he's gonna release soon that is like awesome oil painting brushes in Photoshop and I painted over the parts I didn't like in it I I think it's cool wow so they're not like my paintings I'm not selling them but it was just fun to explore I don't know there was definitely a playfulness and excitement for creating pictures that I haven't felt in a while so yeah and a lot of people I was doing this with um felt the same thing I know when and we we all already had experience with painting we we could paint our own pictures but this really allowed us to explore very quickly lots of different concepts yeah and go in whatever direction we want quickly and it was it is exciting it is in that way one of my friends who's a concept artist for big movie said it's my lightning button it generates lightning and shakes everything up gives me another and it gives you another every time I push the button it gives me new ideas it gives me new stuff yeah and you're using it like kit bashing it is like kit bashing yeah and again like the ethical part of it like yeah I was putting in artist names for the style like I don't know if where that's going to end up but I'm also not selling these um I'm just I was playing and seeing where it went and I wasn't having fun when it becomes a a corporate thing there's it becomes more serious and that is something to definitely consider how to best proceed yeah there's one thing we didn't bring up at all which is is AI art which is the least interesting question of them all the ethical and legal issues are important whether AI is Art it just seems irrelevant to me it's like is illustration art is is digital art art it's like okay well you can you can debate that all you want but it's not interesting to me yeah and and then the thing about back to your Basics course uh one of my friends said finally my lack of talent dedication and skill will not get in the way of realizing my artistic Vision but there is something about that I never studied music I don't know how to play any musical instrument but I have musical thoughts and have all my life and wish that I had studied music and so there's a part of me that when I look at how much Stephen Sondheim knew about musical form How Deeply he studied Bach and Ravel how he really got a grip on it emotionally and technically and how that made him into one of the most versatile composers that ever happened makes me think well I can't I can't do that because when I was a teenager I didn't start learning it so that by the time I was in my 20s and 30s I had command of all of it but it may be that I could experiment around with some other people and say let's see what we could do by having a by collaborating with AI to make songs to make funny song funny music and that kind of thing so there is a part of it that I feel like the friend who said finally my lack of uh will not get in the way I think that experience in communicating visually deaf definitely leads to better results while playing with the AI like if you just compare a really experienced artist looking at an AI generated image versus no someone who's not an artist at all an experienced artist will see it and have immediately they'll know what they don't like about it and what they like about it and what they want to change right whereas a an inexperienced artist or someone's not an artist will have no idea it's like if I try to generate music with AI I might be like oh that's kind of cool but I wouldn't know what to change I'm like I don't know any music rules and what makes a good song and um so I wouldn't know how to lead it I wouldn't know what to tell it to do but because I know how to speak visually I could lead it towards a certain way or I can collaborate with it where I generate 20 images and then put them together literally in Photoshop where I'd be like I generated something because and then I'm like I like this composition now I don't like how it did that monster witch thing in the back it's kind of like looks weird it's a blob so then I start playing with just trying to make it make a witch and then I lead it to that I'm like yeah that's a cool shape right and I can identify a cool shape that will match that composition that will create a gesture that I'm looking for leading the eye and I I'll put that into the composition then I'll do something else and that tree is really distracting what's all these branches are ugly generate a different tree put it in there like these are things that you that a experienced artists can identify as a problem in the composition somebody else wouldn't now I don't know how long that'll last eventually I got a question good composition I got a question about it because what you're bringing up the keywords of what you're bringing up are taste discernment judgment uh aesthetic judgments emotional judgments uh is are we headed in the next few years to where AI will learn that stands taster this way Marshall's taster this way Christians taster this way I don't know and be able to make decisions like an art director makes a decision for a client oh I know they won't like that kind of thing and they're able to guide it in that way can AI come to the point where it says oh Stan would really like the way he didn't like those complex trees they were ugly shapes but this is a beautiful shape and I know what he likes maybe but I don't think it will be all that good at it for example you can you can compare it to like social media news feeds where we train it to our tastes all the time but it kind of it it can be bad it can overcompensate and just give you things that you used to I noticed when I when I buy any or any kind of movies it always figures well he likes that actor which the actor is the least important thing to me in the movement every movie that has that actor in it but it makes me wonder are you going to eventually learn that I don't seek my movies by actor and I don't know whether it will or not whether it can put in its database he's starting to see geek by other factors I think it'll take the AI posing questions to the person like when we get to that level where uh do you want the actor or the writer the director of the year or the studio sometimes you want to just discover new things not just give it something you it thinks you'll like it just depends on what your goal is there I don't want my social next networks always just give me what it thinks I like I want it to give me things that other people like don't worry but if you're the art director you're the one who makes that decision I remember I had an I had an art director I work for that I I love this guy but we were having so much trouble on one job because he had a creative director and he explained to me that every decision this creative director makes is bad and he said when they make a good decision you can hang up the phone count to 20 and the phone's going to ring again and they're going to change it to a bad decision but there are some people that are just that way they their their will is more important than any sense of of whether it's working and I think that the the Junior pocket artist and be there are good art directors and they're bad actors they're good creative directors they're bad creative directors so there is something that we're we're obliged to do if we're going to use it how are we going to be the Arbiters of taste but everything a two-year-old does ninety percent of what a two-year-old does is embarrassing or or or challenging but occasionally you get those great things and that's what you want to put on the video that's what you want to remember that's what you want to tell the stories yeah I'm going to make a prediction of a tool that will happen that everybody in the world with a phone will be using I want to hear in the next few years cool you know how in our keyboards when we're texting each other you have emojis now more recently you have gifs I think there will be an AI button on there as well so that you can type a prompt and you click the AI button and then it generates a bunch of images where you just scroll real quick pick the one you like and it sounds as an image because we we've been communicating with pictures everyone's been communicating pictures recently recently quite a bit they were emojis right and it kind of changed things we can show emotion now with a little Smiley or with a heart or with you know thank you whatever um then gifts came in where it's like oh now we're expanding the visual Library a lot now we can take from movies and um Comics or whatever GIFs and we can add that now it's a little much more complex it's a scene from The Office that's funny that people be like I know what that was that's hilarious and that fits what we're talking about right now much more complicated than an emoji and then with AI you can now direct it much more and if you if if it's if it gets fast enough where you literally can just type a sentence clicking the button and you have a hundred options to choose from and you can quickly just pick one that fits that is now an improvement to our communication that is a very likely prediction I think it makes perfect sense yeah it's like upgraded bitmoji yeah generated version of yourself yeah and set your own prompts for it yeah oh yeah and if you we might be able to even teach the eye of like what we want it to represent us yeah I could be like me doing this and it'll just get me correct every time me as a cartoon doing this me as uh a Pokemon doing this me and you kissing I understand I'm texting my wife what other uh yeah my my waifu what other professions have you paid attention to for how this affects them Health industry the health industry absolutely it is it's just gonna be amazing how healing could be augmented with AI it's hard to find example it won't that's that's the question there I thought about detectives I mean even the fact that it doesn't understand 3D space or the consumer these versions don't understand 3D space yet a detective has to figure things out the we've got you've got access to a million Sherlock Holmes all working on it that can say is there a 3D component to this and you can explain to the AI that if the character was wounded or they've been running for 20 minutes from the cops that that means they're going to slow down and can figure out how many steps in 12 Angry Men they figure out how a a potential thing could have happened by reenacting it you've got a a detective has AI but so does a criminal have ai to figure out how they can get around all that so we've got kind of super powers that are being offered to everyone who wants to use it yeah but notice how when we think about industry or like yeah questions that it affects whenever we think of an example that is not our profession it seems like a positive thing like whoa I can get a better doctor that'll know me better yeah yeah yeah or oh it'll solve crimes faster and we'll have safer neighborhoods we can get a more dishonest politician who can succeed above the others no we don't think of that when we're thinking of examples we we usually gravitate towards how will it affect this industry and oh that's exciting I'll have better movies it depends on the predisposition of the person I guess so for how they think about it that's that's true I mean when I have these conversations with my friends it always leads to like oh wow that's cool because I will and it's like I'm not gonna lose my job as a police officer like but someone will there's no threat to us in somebody else's profession or that we can see there it is if you really think it through yeah yeah like if it creates better books or if it creates movies and animations that are better than what humans can do eventually and they all lose their jobs that's I don't lose my job I don't make movies but like it could improve my life because I get better movies this is why I'm thinking it's there's no way to avoid it because every industry where there's jobs lost everyone who is not in that industry gets an improvement in life quality there's also be ultimate positive which is the jobless Society where nobody has to work to live the first thing that you brought up when we talked about it was that it one of the first things you brought up was that it's a universal basic income and that's come up more than once yeah you talked about when AI is doing all the jobs for everything we're gonna have Universal basic Kingdom and I've heard more than one person mention that they might have even mentioned it on that Dave McKean interview the problem is we're we're gonna have to live through many decades or more of an in-between oh yeah it's better yeah we have it's kind of like when uh digital art or photography or kit bash and kind of replaced movie posters remember when they used to always do paintings and all of a sudden it just became like Photoshop crappy movie posters and it was just this in between now we have pretty decent like movie posters the kind of I mean listen when I when I well no seriously when I scroll through my Netflix feed I'm not like disappointed and okay I'm not like oh I wish these were all hand painted yeah I don't think like that okay I don't know I feel like they're fine okay all right let me hold on let me open up my Netflix let me see all right let me see if I like a realm of good kind of yeah on a similar subject like when CG uh was first started you being used in movies like right after Jurassic Park and just over saturated going yeah hard on CG and now we're finally in a period where like it's we're trying to blend CG with uh practical effects more again somebody said that you cannot compare I AI to any other previous Innovations because it's so huge it's it's such a game changer that it is a game changer it's not like we've changed a rule in the game we've changed the game and I I can grasp that here like for example Sandman like it's not hand-painted it's just it's like a photo of someone Marshall is this a horrible cover no it's not a horrible no that's what I mean but I've seen it most times huh I've seen that thing of a a cloaked figure a shadow figure with a faded back uh atmospheric background and a contrast of the organic and the sharp edges I mean it's it's it's kind of a cliche sure but it's like it does the job do you really wish it was hand painted oh no I don't know that's what I'm saying is like we lived through a a decade or more of really bad like most of them were just really bad but now like that whole industry has improved like they're still photobashing but they're doing a way better job of it but in the next five to ten years just think what of what movie posters can be sure no all I'm saying is you're we're going to live through and in between that absolutely sucks yeah where you've got the bad stuff's happening and we haven't learned how to make it good yet and everyone's gonna think this is this is horrible this is there's no positives to this and then it'll improve that's how technology usually works like the first several versions just suck but then there's people who see the future and keep pushing forward and eventually everyone's life improves and everyone's grateful for it yeah um oh not everyone there's a lot of people that lose their jobs and they're not grateful for it but the majority of society becomes like oh yeah that was great if it could let me make fun of something good we'll say yeah it was good that that happened 50 years from now 100. well give me a technology that's still around that was that is clearly bad and we're still using uh automobiles clearly bad for society uh when I was in Community College you think we should I had riding horses I had a wonderful teacher named Ned Studebaker who made a presentation on the effect of the automobile on society and he was he did his best to be very objective but there came a point where I thought might have been better otherwise or to have waited and and not immediately used the first things the the uh the fuel absorbing engines um Harold Pinter even said okay that that in between might have been a hundred years that's right right but it might have been 20 or 30 years where he said we got a better way to do it right rather than just running with the food but do you think it was better to keep going down the line of gas cars for 100 years or whatever and then lead to you know maybe how many decades from now a better alternative than horses I don't see wine or should we have done thousands more years of horses thousands and thousands forever never explore automobiles it's it is a theater opinion I don't know and here's why horses were great polluters of the environment horses were tremendous expenses horses had all sorts of trouble well before horses weren't fast enough all of the other stuff horses could only pull so much the train it all brings in good and bad oh there was one thing I wanted to mention it's kind of a hopeful idea I think that humans will always prefer helpful we'll always prefer absorbing content made by other humans listening to humans um because we are emotional and I personally don't like talking to a robot like I don't care if it sounds just like you I know it's not you I know I'm not actually building a relationship there's been a lot of talk with Kim jong-gi passing uh and somebody immediately trained in you know a whole algorithm to just replicate Kim jongi's stuff and obviously people are like what the dude and then others are like well it's not his my view on that is like I I don't look at that and I think like oh cool yeah I love that stuff because there's a story behind every piece of art and if I know that Kim Jong didn't actually make it I don't care for it I would rather hang and look at a worse piece of art that Kim jongki actually did then a better one that he didn't do because I'm human and there is a story story dictates so much of how we observe something or connect with something process it and the story of an AI generated thing is black there is no story there and a story behind a painting created by a human is all the hard work that took it took to get there to be able to communicate so brilliantly you can't replicate that when you go to a museum don't you just think like holy like they did that right would you have the same emotion if you looked at an AI generated painting I get where you're coming from I could have the same emotion with the content but I would not have the same emotion of what happens when I I love filmmakers and I just kind of want to know that oh yeah they made that movie that that one made that movie there's something about the the love of the fact that this music came from a particular yeah person who's done the other music too yeah I know what you mean yeah it's like you don't want a love letter that's been generated by a machine yeah it's big there's no real emotion there from the person it doesn't mean anything it's like cool this thing says I am loved does that matter those words don't matter there's nothing real behind it you might fall in love with someone's art so much that when they create something bad you like it anyway right it happens all the time yeah it does because we are humans we're emotional yeah we're not completely logical and that's where I I have that hope that this actually won't completely remove humans from communicating with pictures like it doesn't matter if robots can speak so can humans I'd rather talk to a human yeah rather have a relationship yeah so that doesn't solve the more technical professions for art but it does kind of save I think the art of picture making or Community visual language okay I have a thought that that runs on that that's as optimistic as assuming assuming that this thing you want to play with is safe and legal and ethical uh now what would you do with it Dave McKean said in that interview about an hour and a half in said nobody's making album covers anymore something like that who would make an album cover now actually it wasn't Dave who said that it was his host when he made that statement I thought when I was in Middle School and High School I fell in love with album covers a lot of why I wanted to become an artist was because I loved album covers of the 70s and uh there was something about the square format there was something about the size of it too that it wasn't a CD cover it was big enough to where you could get your face in front of it and look through it and see the detail in there or put it on your wall and it had it made this statement that was graphically powerful and what if nobody would nobody can make album covers anymore because who would hire an illustrator make an album cover where you can have ai crank out thousands of them and say this one this one this one I thought well if it ends the profession of illustrators of album covers what about having non-utilitarian art jams this is not to make money it's not to commercialize it it's to say the square format has got its own challenges and strengths wouldn't it be interesting since so many of the Great album covers when the album cover started to get great and this in the late 60s and in the 70s so many of them were surreal and one one thing AI does very well is surrealism because it's just it's a it's a hallucinatory dream going on in that mind so if you were to really play for an hour a week with let's try this let's try this with some friends I think it could result in a fascinating imagery non-utilitarian we're not trying to sell an album cover we're just experimenting with a square format of a certain size and surreal images and seeing how creative we can be the prompts I think that would be a ball yeah that's exactly what I was doing with my friends that we would we would each create a little series and we would share with each other and give each other ideas yeah um yeah it was very fun anything else you want to say yeah um kind of general advice and this is advice for artists that that don't have technical jobs the one advantage we have is Being Human we really need to play that up because what I was just saying how people will most most likely want to connect with you because they follow you because you're a human you made you actually made the thing don't hide behind your art lean into the fact that you are human and try to be a personality have people follow you because you are an artist and they like your work and they want to listen to what you have to say they like your images that might not solve it but I I know it will give those people a higher chance of growing an audience and being able to make a living off of that because they will buy whatever thing that they sell or people will hire them for whatever visual problem they can solve they'll be better art directors they'll be wiser art directors well not necessarily you might you don't even need to use air to make your art okay you could keep painting with oils if you don't take advantage of the fact that you're human you have a lower chance of actually people actually following you don't just have your paintings speak for themselves like they're visually nice because the AI can replicate that and they can it can also have visually nice paintings but if people follow you because they like you and they like your art they'll keep following you so be a personality use social media be transparent with who you are and be true to you and and thank you you increase your chances I mean that's that's my plan okay that sounds good to my plan I want to do that too I'm figuring what am I going to use if we're going to use it you're already doing it I'm gonna use it as a teacher yeah and I want to see is there a way to use it as a teacher to be better the stuff you brought up two three years ago is stuff that interested me as how will you use it it's a feedback model that does not have an emotional relationship with a student but we can use it you're bringing in a cold-blooded uh analyzer to this relationship AI doesn't care about your feelings but am I may give us some insight into what you need Fine Art specifically is mostly about collecting [Music] um so if you're a traditional jar pain or whatever you you really are just selling to people who want to collect your work and literally art collectors they don't want AI replicas of your style right they want your thing right it's rare because actually human-made art might become more rare and more valuable I think so now traditional art comes back a little more I think right so too digital art was it was like really ruling and killing a lot of jobs by the way you you digital artists who think that you're all innocent you did kill a lot of traditional art careers right so give and take there traditional artists might come back and that the whole media might come back and for example like when we're at conventions even just getting a signature from an artist people were like really excited they were collecting signatures from people like they would not value that a photo of a signature which isn't it's the same thing yeah but the hand touched it and it's real and they have an emotional connection to that I buy original art from artists I like because I want to support them and I love their stuff and I like to decorate my studio with it because I get inspiration I get value from that yeah I I have these Aaron Blaze drawings on my wall there I would not have the same connection to them if they were AI generated versions of a style scarcity creates value and a person who can do an oil painting or watercolor may be the rare person oh there's one of them left there's a few of them left let's treat them well yeah yeah I can see that in fact there are some people in my life one in particular who is not embracing AI not that interested in it but she may be the one who is uh becomes the most valued person because she can paint she can draw yeah go ahead yeah good thought here's the last thing I would have to say when the digital Revolution was happening I was well into my 30s and I was in a career I was making good money as an illustrator and I had to switch to digital because the people around me who were not switching to digital lost their careers so I was not an early adopter it was 1994 when I went digital but everything changed after that and the ca magazine had an article where a thoughtful a thoughtful writer or person they interviewed said that digital is not a tool people keep saying it's just a tool it's just a tool digital is not a tool digital is a medium and I put that in I put that into my thoughts for quite a while it is a it's bigger than a tool a tool it does a thing a medium is a whole Arena of that you swim in it it affects everything you do so it was trying to find a word it was trying to find a comparison trying to find a metaphor the tool is one metaphor but this is more than a tool it's a medium it's bigger than that and a set of many tools a set of mini tools and now that we've got AI I've been trying to think about this and I think that the metaphors we choose have everything to do with our the way we use things everything dude on a subconscious level you see it as an enemy you see it as a washing machine you see it as a brain you see it as a lion cub uh all of those things make a difference for how we relate to it but I thought it's not a medium it is a collaborator and it's an infant collaborator and it's not a human collaborator but it is a collaborator so that me it can be a treacherous collaborator but it is a collaborator because we talked to it and it gives us stuff back and and how we work with it will make a difference and that is the metaphor that I am most interested in right now not using it not planning to use it for a year but watching how other people are using it and seeing what are your what are your comparisons what do you compare it to and getting those things into my head so that if I am going to use it I want to be a good collaborator with it and with other people because even group you know two or three people saying let's use it for this you've got a collaborator with a little genius a little a little idiot genius a little non-discerning but fearless and unbelievably informed and and and able to draw on things genius how will we work with it that's the best I can do right now in trying to have an attitude toward it and then I'll watch the other people who will see how treacherous it is how dangerous it is and talk about those things I think we should take this up again at some point for sure I think we should take it up with so many updates months from now updates on the legal and ethical issues there'll be new tools that are exciting to explore there's so many tools we didn't even talk about yeah that I know are actually pretty exciting yeah I'm interested in in Carla Ortiz because of her her concerns about what's right and what hurts other people I'm I'm absolutely thrilled with how Kirsten's enthusiasm Kirsten's got the enthusiasm of an eight-year-old with the knowledge of a hundred-year-old and she just brings that together so I'm very interested in working we need that balance yeah people who are pushing forward as fast as they can and people who are like whoa hold up yeah hold up yeah it's a good balance yeah okay I'm done talking about AI Stan open the podcast door next one oh Dan what open the podcast door oh this one I can't let you do that Marshall open the podcast door stand when you do that Marshall open the podcast door open the podcast door stand

Channel: Draftsmen

Views: 164,792

Keywords: Ai art, artificial intelligence, ai ethics, draftsmen, drawing, painting, podcast, online art school, how to draw, artist, art, learn to draw, art school, art class, art training, drawing lesson, learning art, stan prokopenko, marshall vandruff

Id: lc-RX2AGGNA

Length: 83min 4sec (4984 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 01 2022