Who were the Cathars?

when we discuss various atrocities and violent tragedies that have occurred across history one of the most common topic that comes up is that of the crusades now most of these crusades at least the most famous ones were aimed at taking back areas that had been conquered by the muslims especially the holy city of jerusalem but another one of the most major crusades in the middle ages was one that took place within european christendom itself the so-called albigensian crusade was an attempt by the catholic church to root out what they saw as a dangerous heresy that had erupted in southern france and northern italy the supposed heretics at least if we are to believe the catholic chroniclers uh held beliefs that were sometimes very different indeed sometimes very dimetrically opposite to the mainstream doctrines of the catholic church and which according some scholars may have had connections to various religious movements of antiquity like the gnostics and the manichaeans this fascinating group in medieval western europe has become known as the cathars [Laughter] [Applause] we're back in medieval europe a tumultuous time to say the least as we've seen in previous episodes a lot is taking place at this time a lot of violence of course as the catholic church becomes increasingly interested in clamping down on perceived threats both politically and religiously but paradoxically this is also a time of intellectual flourishing contrary to popular belief medieval europe gave us some of the most significant philosophers and thinkers in history many of whom were hugely original and presented daring ideas and in spite of the church's all-encompassing authority in all matters religion we still see various religious movements appear at this time now one of the most fascinating and noteworthy of these are the so-called cathars who posed perhaps the biggest threat to catholic authority at the time the cathars flourished in western europe from the second half of the 12th century to the first half of the 14th especially in the region known as longadoc which is located primarily in southern france teaching a doctrine of strict dualism and anti-materialism the cathodes were harshly condemned by the catholics as demonic heretics opposed to the central tenets of christian beliefs and were for this reason wiped out in the albigensian crusade and the inquisitions that were connected to it and thus even before we start the discussion itself we've already run into our first problem you know the old saying history is told by the victors and the victors in this case was undoubtedly the catholic church and when people try to wipe out a heresy they tend to like really wipe it out leaving no well as little evidence both in terms of people but also in writings and material evidence as possible so when we try to retell and understand the doctrines and the history of these so-called cathodes we don't have much in the way of firsthand material to rely on from the catheters themselves that is in other words a lot of the material that we have to rely on come directly from the catholic church or from the crusaders themselves who were obviously the great enemies of the cathers the people who despised them so as is my usual refrain we should approach these kinds of sources skeptically and carefully but if we at least assume that a lot of what is said in these accounts are true which they are in a lot of cases in these kinds of situations despite possible biases we can get some basic idea about what these catheters were supposed to believe and who they were they seemed to have been a group that was highly critical of the catholic church and consider a lot of the church's beliefs and rituals and practices to be misguided and even satanic in some cases the cathars appeared to have been very strict duelists so they had a dualistic world view where the material world was actually created by the devil himself the origins of this movement is contested among scholars and historians some have wanted to connect its doctrines with earlier famous dualistic movements of antiquity like the gnostics and the manichaeans who held ideas quite similar according to this view we can see a continuous tradition carried on from the gnostics in the earliest years of christianity which later is supposed to have spread into other parts of europe but many other scholars aren't convinced and instead view the dualistic movement of medieval europe as unique and independent despite the similarities what seems somewhat clear to a lot of historians is that western european catheterism in particular is connected to an earlier movement known as the bogo mills which emerged in the 10th century in eastern europe primarily in bulgaria macedonia serbia and eventually central locations like constantinople the bogo meals were also dualists whose ideas correspond to a great degree to the later cathars in france and there is likely to be a continuity between the two this cathar movement seems to have appeared for the first time or they appear on the historical record in the mid 12th century although bogomi doctrines may have spread there even earlier than that the beliefs of the cathars are absolutely fascinating and may appear shocking to christians of a mainstream bent as mentioned earlier the central aspect of this teaching is dualism similar to groups like the gnostics they taught that there are two worlds a divine immaterial world of spirit created by the good god and the material world that we live in which has been created by the devil himself and is thus seen as a very dirty and evil prison to be escaped originally the bogomiles and early cathodes appears to have held what scholar malcolm barber calls a more moderate dualism where god remains the sole absolute power and creator including of the devil who in turn has created the material world we can see this narrative in one of the known works of the bogomides the so-called secret supper which was also imported to the cathode community in a work by malcolm barber it is described as such quote passing through all these layers he in other words satan began to subvert the angel's allegiance by offering them a lower scale of obligations than thy old god cast out by god for his treachery satan took a third of the angels with him but could find no peace in the firmament so he presented himself as a sinner who had repented the lord was moved with pity for him and gave him peace to do what he would until the seventh day meaning by this the seventh age of the world it was during that time that satan created the earth and the living things within it including man formed from clay made to serve him the angels that satan brought with him from heaven were forced to reside in these human bodies thus being trapped to serve him until they could escape now we can see clear parallels to gnosticism here which also taught that an ignorant demiurge called the aldebarath had created the material world and the human body in the above narrative satan has created the universe we know but he himself was subordinate to god hence we refer to this as a moderate dualism it appears however that sometime in the 12th century a more absolute dualism had taken root in the cathode community in this absolute dualism good and evil represented by god and the devil are instead both eternal forces that have always existed and have nothing to do with each other god has created and rules over the spiritual realm and satan the material and they appear to have an equal standing in some sense this kind of absolute dualism we can find in another treatise known as the book of the two principles probably written later on in the 1240s in light of this dualistic core the cathars interpreted many other christian doctrines in similarly unique ways similar to the gnostics they rejected most of the old testament or hebrew bible and its prophets as proponents of satan they simply couldn't accept the idea that the god described in the old testament who orders the destruction and massacre of various groups of people to be the true good god described in the new testament instead it must be the evil creator satan who is described here instead they rely only on the gospels and other books of the new testament as sources as well as some few books from the old testament or hebrew bible because they see the material world and body in such a negative light it is perhaps not surprising that they also adamantly deny the human nature of jesus he only appeared to take on a human body but was really only a spiritual being he was never born of the virgin he never hungered or thirsted indeed he was never truly crucified or died on the cross but only appeared to do so the role of jesus is thus very different to the catholics he was sent by the true god to help mankind but he did so by establishing the initiatory church which the catholics saw themselves as taking part in and whose job it was to help the spiritual parts of human beings escape from the evil prison of the body and return to heaven from which we came you can kind of see why the catholic church would be so upset with these doctrines they completely rejected the catholic church they saw its beliefs its some of its primary doctrines and rituals to be completely false the symbol of the cross was a false idol to be rejected the eucharist and baptism through water were evil innovations and the very foundational ideas about god and jesus and who they were were fundamentally wrong according to the catholics in any case with this dualistic outlook in mind the catholics appear to have been able to create some pretty solid structures of their own some historians even talk about a catholic church which had established itself to some degree in the longadoc region of southern france this supposed church had a clergy and a structural hierarchy in which different people had different roles at the top of this hierarchy was the bishop followed by the elder son then the younger son and lastly the deacon now the name for a more ordinary semi-lay person who nonetheless was initiated as an adept in the cathode teachings was called a perfecti and regular lay people connected to the faith were simply referred to as good christians quite a complex structure as you can tell which suggests that the cathodes may have been quite established as a movement as is usually the case the practices and obligations of the catheters could differ depending on where in this hierarchy you stood but in general it can be very difficult to try to reconstruct the practices that the catharsis would perform here we also had to rely on hostile sources one of my main sources for the cathodes generally is a chronicler and cistercian monk called peter of valdez cerne who is definitely not a fan nonetheless he describes the cathode ethics and practice thus called the perfected heretics where a black robe claimed falsely to practice chastity and renounced meat eggs and cheese they wished to appear that they were not liars although they lied especially about god almost unseasonally they believed that they could be saved without restitution of what they had stolen and without confession and pentions so long as they were able to recite the lord's prayer and ensure a laying on of hands by their masters in the final moments of their lives as hard as it may be to find morsels of truth in such hostile accounts peter does here allude to some practices that are very commonly attributed to the catheters including by other less emotional accounts including that the catheters lived a life of chastity so that they had a rather negative stance towards sexual relations as well as certain dietary restrictions primarily a kind of vegetarianism where they would only consume fish for the most part but would deny themselves the meat cheese and eggs and among other things the perfecti also appears to have taken part in some rather rigorous fasts for three days a week where they would only eat water and bread as well as more longer fast for 40 days at a time now most of these practices are somehow connected to their very negative stance towards the material body generally sex was seen as something very dirty and sinful even when performed between husband and wife not only did it satisfy the lusts of the physical body but also served as a means of creating new material life which wasn't to be preferred we find here similarities with the strictly dualistic religion of manichaeism which had a similarly negative stance on all things material while regular catheters still had children of course since the community survived and was passed down through generations but there seems to have always been a kind of uneasy attitude towards procreation which is well expressed in a tragic comic account when a catholic woman tells her pregnant friend that she should quote ask god to free her from the demon which she had in her belly the human being sought to be freed from the material world and that is the creation of satan through being initiated into the catholic church and to practice catholism basically the souls of humans were thought to reincarnate into new bodies until this release is achieved naturally then they deny the common doctrine of the physical resurrection of the dead at the end of time as well as the day of judgment instead much like the manichaeans they believe that in the end times the creation of light which resides in the material prison will be separated from evil and the two worlds will be distinct again and to be initiated into the cathode church meant that you took part in what is perhaps the most important and characteristic ritual or practice of this movement known as the consolamentum this was a kind of initiatory ritual similar in role to the catholic baptism but very different in its particulars indeed the catholics in this context very much criticizes the mainstream practice of baptism through water which the catholics and other christians took part in partly because it is performed on infants who don't grasp the significance of the ritual and can't choose to become initiated but also because water is after all material and thus dirty it's the creation of the devil after all instead the consolamentum sometimes known as the quote baptism of the spirit is a complex ritual of several stages the person who was to be initiated first went through a long period of preparation before the ritual itself took place then the ceremony included several invocations and prayers including a variant of the lord's prayer and finally a quote laying on of hands by good men so literally several initiates into the church would simultaneously put their hands on the head of the person and formally initiate him and after this the initiate would also be taught how to give the consolamentum himself especially to the sick and dying this practice is probably what peter valdez serenay was referring to at the end of that earlier very critical quote and i'll quote again they believed that they could be saved without restitution of what they had stolen and without confession and pentions so long as they were able to recite the lord's prayer and ensure a laying on of hands by their masters in the final moments of their lives what he's referring to here is the idea that when the person is given the consolamentum that is initiated all his previous sins are basically abolished and he is sort of purified his soul is completely purified that doesn't mean that he can't sin in the future of course and he may have to be reinitiated as a result but this is the basic idea that when someone is given the console lamentum their sins are basically forgiven you could say and this is also connected to another very important aspect of this ritual tradition which is also what peter refers to in his quote which is the idea that old people or people who are dying generally were given the consolamentum by cathar priests as a way to help the dying person by giving him this ritual this initiation at the end of his life he could face his own death on the best terms since he had just been given this very sacred rite which had at least to some degree absorbed him of previous sins and purified him to some degree by becoming a catholic initiate all this shows that the cathars appeared to have been a very unique and fascinating movement and part of medieval france and medieval europe which differed quite dramatically in some ways from mainstream christianity it's hard to say for sure just how widespread and influential this movement had become but many sources suggest that they had gained the support of various local lords and leaders in southern france at the time who may have helped them by sheltering them giving them places to stay and food and and so on which created a kind of network an infrastructure in which this cather community could thrive at least to some degree in the 12th and early 13th century cities such as toulouse and others in the longadoc region appears to have housed a at least a significant number of cathodes even if they probably never were the majority the catholic church had been very uneasy about the catholic movement for a while there were debates that took place between catholic representatives and catholics and attempts here and there to try to counteract their spread but in the early 13th century they had had enough after a papal delegate was apparently assassinated by people connected to the catheters while on a mission in france in 1208 pope innocent iii decided to initiate more drastic measures this was the start of the albigensian crusade from 1209 and for about the next 20 years the catholic crusaders went on a violent campaign to destroy the cathodes once and for all many cities associated with cathode activity became under siege catheters themselves as well as their supporters were often captured and burned alive burned to death and assassinated this included many civilians as the massacres didn't always discriminate all that much to the point that some historians want to refer to this event as a full-blown genocide in a famous story about the massacre of bezier the crusader are now a malrik assads have been asked how to distinguish between catholics and catholics when they sort of entered the city to which he called the replied quote kill them all god will know his own there's quite a good possibility that he never actually said this and that this is a dramatization of the events but it sort of captures the spirits of these crusades a lot of people were killed including civilians and the crusaders didn't always really distinguish between who was who in the course of the albigensian crusade which officially ended in 1229 the crusaders managed to conquer and subjugate many cities and regions associated with cathode activity as well as leaders who were suspected of having housed catheters or supported catheterism in some way but in reality this was only a minority many places of catholic activity were still outside of their control even by the end of the crusade but nonetheless the crusade had begun the process which led to their decline and the eventual disappearance completely of the catholic community after the crusade ended the pope and his church would continue the fight by sending inquisitors continuously into regions associated with cathode activity a process that continued for most of the 13th century by the middle of the century the infrastructure that supported the cather movement had completely been dismantled which left its adherence without an organization and often forced to be on the run barbara writes quote by the mid-1240s the cathers of longadoc were oppressed from three sides by the weight of royal military and bureaucratic power by the loss of their traditional secular supporters and by the determined and systematic prosecutions of the inquisitors and that court catherism had been driven down the social scale leaving few noble supporters while most of its ministers had been captured or had fled to lombardy bernard akier even if he had had the capability was in no position to study the literature of his faith or to convey such learning to others instead he functioned only in small and uncoordinated gatherings of believers or in meetings with individuals and this development continued for the rest of the century with the exception of a brief revival led by the autie brothers peter and william who were captured and executed in 1309 and 1310 the catholics never really recovered from the persecution to the point that by the mid 14th century we find little record of their existence at all the catholic church through their crusades and the inquisitors had managed it seems to quell this movement and restore their own power in regions that had been influenced by catholic ideas previously and you might think that the narrative is over here but there's a twist to this story in fact the cathars as we understand them may have never actually existed indeed many historians studying the subject today argue that the idea of a unified heretical movement in longidoc is more of a construction by catholic chroniclers and modern scholars than it is based in actual reality instead the quote-unquote cathode church is a specter created by the catholic church at the time in their fear of losing control and that what we know as catherism was actually a manifestation of social and political circumstances in the region at the time rather than an actual religious movement that can be considered to have been unified into anything resembling a church or holding specific dualistic doctrines the whole version of events that i have presented in this episode can be considered the traditional narrative it is the version that scholars have considered true for a couple of centuries but in the last few decades many scholars have seriously challenged this narrative as i hinted in the beginning there are some serious problems with our sources they are almost exclusively either hostile written by catholic chroniclers or written at a later stage these skeptical historians don't deny that the crusades or inquisition took place of course but the very idea that there was anything like a european wide counter church the topic quickly gets very complicated once we take these contemporary scholarly debates into account if you want to know more about this topic in particular and some of the actual arguments against the existence of catharism as we know it my good friend dr justin sledge from the channel esoterica is actually releasing a video precisely on this topic today as a kind of companion video to this one he will be talking about arguments for and against the existence of a cathode church in medieval europe and basically just go through this topic a bit more in depth than what i have done here so if you're interested in knowing more about that topic in particular as a continuation of the discussions in this episode i highly recommend you go check out that video and his channel generally which you should also definitely subscribe to it's in my opinion one of the best channels dealing with the academic study of religion and philosophy and the occult on all of youtube so definitely go check that out for a more thorough overview of the current scholarly debates about this topic and regardless of your stance about this problem in particular there's no denying that the catholics as they have become known to us through history have played an important role in the modern world as well as is often the case in the 20th and 21st century there has been a kind of revival of the cather doctrines of catholism the dualistic ideas of catholism figures in the 20th century like roche and simone whale rekindled an interest in catholism as an expression of an ancient secret religious tradition that had been continuously persecuted and oppressed across history and there are even communities today who actually self-identify as catholics and practice what they believe to be a continuous tradition from this medieval church and even all the way back to things like gnosticism in this episode i have given you a basic overview of the traditional narrative of the so-called cathers a fascinating religious community of dualists in medieval france who if we assume that they actually existed as such worried the catholic church to such a degree that they brought on a full crusade against them above all the story about the catheters shows us how diverse complex and vibrant any religious tradition or historical context will inevitably be even in a context like medieval europe which is often considered to be very strict and rigid if you want to support this channel you can do so monetarily by becoming a patron on our patreon page and i will leave a link to that in the description special shout out to our new saint wild osiris and to all of my patrons for supporting this channel but you can also simply leave a like comment and subscribe to this channel and i will see you next time [Music] you

Channel: Let's Talk Religion

Views: 24,826

Rating: 4.9517794 out of 5

Keywords: Who were the Cathars, The Cathars, Cathars, Christianity, Catharism, Cathars crusade, Albigensian crusade, cathar religion, cathars history, christianity history, middle ages, medieval heresy, Christian heresy, Gnosticism, Gnostic church, Gnostic christianity, Gnostic religion, Manichaeism

Id: ySrpKMlhG2c

Length: 27min 42sec (1662 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 17 2021