Who Was The Best English Monarch? David Mitchell Rates The Royals!

they were all right bastards basically the standard of conduct is woefully below what we'd expect you know even of Hollywood what you have to do you have to be horrible they were all horrible you have to be willing to kill at a moment's notice I'm not kid on William the Conqueror and I'm not keen on Ed with the Confessor I certainly feel that if they swapped roles they'd both be very unhappy [Music] to what do we owe this great treat why are you a Colossus delving into our little world of history what's going on I've wrote this I've started writing this book during the during the lockdown when a lot of people are trying to write things and I hadn't been and then I started typing about the Vikings because it's it occurred to me that kovid is a bit like the Vikings in that it was a terrible thing that suddenly happened to an unsuspecting uh community in in the case of my typing Anglo-Saxon England and suddenly they would they were being Anglo-Saxon England in their way and it wasn't of great life but you know they were used to it and then suddenly the Vikings turned up and it was grim and they didn't know why they didn't know whether they'd stop turning up whether they'd go away and just thought that's that's the one of the bleakest things about being a human being sometimes a bit of History just happens to you and there's nothing you can do and you're a victim of it and you're not part of it and you don't have agency and the Anglo-Saxons as we did try to give themselves some agency by saying it was their fault and you know have all the talk about yes with covid we haven't been preparing enough for pandemics or that somebody may be at a bat or whatever whatever it is let's please as Humanity let's take ownership of it and make it something we've done to ourselves rather than the more frightening thing which is just something that's happening to us that has nothing to do with us and makes us not a villain but just a victim and that's that's what happened with with the Vikings turning and the Anglo-Saxon said oh it's God's cross with us we haven't been praying enough we haven't been holy enough that wasn't why it was just because that you know the socio-economic conditions in Scandinavia shifted slightly as did uh technology yeah yeah you can't can't control the waters around the island David as we know you know that's the ongoing uh problem in British history so you used to be Vikings now it's uh then they try I got images now of the monks on lindisfied attempting to sort of enforce social distancing white kings and queens why do we return it's so interesting we return time and again to this does it give us this what does it give us a track and narrative that we can then write the hang on the best rest of British history onto I think so I think for me certainly in the medieval period that my book's about that's the basic political narrative the who's in charge narrative and that doesn't tell the full story but it tells one of the main stories and it has a and it and it leads you through it you know in many ways they're probably there are more important things to look at in terms of the lives of the majority of the people but in terms of characters and story that's what I was drawn to and you can't also one of the reasons my book ends in 1603 and one of the reasons is that after that if you just talk about the kings and queens that becomes less and less relevant and that stops being even the main political story after 100 years or so I think that's that's so true because if we're in this poll we're going to try and just talk about a little trying to get a bit of a pecking order going and actually it's so hard to compare medieval monarchs with early modern and modern ones because you end up having to like go well there's Elizabeth was Elizabeth II better than Apple Stan and you're like they are it's just you're comparing two totally different entities aren't you I certainly feel that if they swapped roles they'd both be very unhappy I think if Elizabeth II was trying to consolidate Anglo-Saxon control on a partly Viking occupied Island I don't I don't think that would have been her great strength and similarly I think he might have found it a bit frustrating the the endless Duty and positivity and he might just can at some point can I slash someone to bits with a sword you don't know your majesty just now take the Posey of flowers and smile whenever I write and think about kings and queens these are bizarre habit of starting the king list of William the Conqueror it just is so strange isn't it and you've gone all the way back to the early medieval as well haven't you well I thought if we're going to define a book one of the ways you could Define it is say it's about the kings and queens of England and so you immediately say okay so England has to exist and England didn't exist I mean obviously the physical space did but no one called it England before the Anglo-Saxons arrived because that term derives from then so we can forget about the Romans and similarly after Elizabeth the first who got the same monarchy in charge of England and Scotland and so it starts to be more Britain but the big problem we all face isn't it who was the first king of England yes well it might be athelston it might be Edward the Elder it's not Alfred the Great sadly not um but it's around then I say in the book it's a sort of soft launch the kingdom of England um because the Angus before the Vikings came the Anglo-Saxons definitely had lots of different kingdoms and a vague sense that they're from the same cultural route but no real sense that the notion of England is really forged under on the in opposition to the the Vikings were you kind of drawn towards those early monarchs I find them increasingly interesting because only because we overlooked them until quite recently they just weren't part of our kind of national story I like it because it's so confusing definitely you know that the and you understand why there's been so much televising of the Tudors because it's you sort of know where you are there's a handful of easy characters to get a get a group you can assume bit of knowledge in the audience everyone knows where they are they're the wars are the Roses it's all over the place you know and I you know I even since writing the book I've forgotten most of it okay plantagenous going into the two Cadet branches of how of York and Lancaster that that's that's the big model of what basically happened in medieval England that I used writing this book to briefly get a sort of grip on um but yeah the confusingness of it is and it's attractive and that's what all kingship is our notion of Kings it's partly Henry VII but apart from the his big iconic figure with thinking of kings that were in that period That's the proper period of Kings that's when the the um all of the the aesthetic of kingship derives from that time they had crowns they had Shields they had Coats of Arms and that's what and they all of the pictures of um King Arthur have him like that even though if he had existed which he didn't he he was a millennium earlier and would have had very very different clobber probably probably a bit of an old toga you know Clinging On to the half a Gladius and a sandal is writing a history book the sort of dad is that one of the dad that's the thing to tick off you know like it's Dad like hashtag dad life because I mean the reason I ask you about writing history books it strikes me that one of your more famous Alter Ego someone who someone who you had to struggle in the past to put distance between you and this fictional person he wanted to write a book called business secrets of the Pharaohs I think yes well I I look I can't say that I've entirely escaped the shadow of Mark Corrigan in writing history book this this is a book that he might be interested in well I think so but that's the he but the thing is about him and me with that we're we were young fogies and now I'm gradually growing into the appropriate age for Focus that's another young folkie it's quite nice to all your friends suddenly join you don't move you remain as interested in Stalingrad as you were at 19. yeah but strangely your sort of weird mates who are interested in like house music and other things start to and then sometimes surpass you like I've got mates now like writing detailed descriptions there grand grandfather at the Battle of passchendale I'm like you have gone you've gone you've overshot the runway yes what's your music collection looking like now exactly exactly I love people's different perspectives on all the monarchs can we just start with like anything you want just sick of anything I'm massively overrated I'm not keen on William the Conqueror okay um I'm not kidding I'm willing the Conqueror and I'm not keen on Ed with the Confessor I wouldn't say Edward the Confessor is massively overrated but we call well I'm very glad to hear it because it seems like lots of people like him they allow him to call himself Edward the Confessor and talk about his Holiness and his praying absolutely useless man he was a useless man he sowed the seeds of Discord absolutely do we not like William the Conqueror because you have a kind of nostalgic love for the Anglo-Saxon sort of all of it 19th century a bit nostalgic for that or do you just think he was a right bastard who um was uh just a violent psychopath well they were all right bastards basically in terms of the standard of conduct is woefully below what we'd expect you know even of Hollywood there was so many times in the Middle Ages where people are just waiting for the this this useless path Ai and then the cage very occasionally they go well it could be age even though it's the Middle Ages and people just drop dead for no reason all the time we we just can't wait for him to die we're gonna have to do something else Edward II I'm sorry it's just too long he might not die for 30 years his father made old people yeah and his son did all Richard II similarly it's going to be too long before he dies we're just gonna have to put him in a castle and starve him so William the Conqueror you don't like him because you're you're affectionate you've got to pick a side right I mean that may be that some academic historians would say you don't I think possibly but I think they've lost the joy but I think the Battle of Hastings one of the first things you get taught about or I got taught about and you could you've got to pick a sign do you want to pick the invading Normans or do you want to pick the Harold City on Zen lack Hill and I picked Harold most of the people in my class picked Harold but turns out sadly uh spoiler alert for people who haven't yet bought the book Harold loses crikey and that's you know that's a bit of a shame and it's one of the good reasons not to start uh your history of the kings and queens of England with uh William the Conqueror because it's a it's a bit of a pisser Harold's an attractive character I think yeah he's he's very obviously had no uh Birthright to be king but that we we feel more relaxed about that now that we're not so keen on the whole notion of people being in charge because of her Birthright but he was he was professional he was organized he he was he did he did everything right uh except and and he would have won the Battle of Hastings if his army had listened to him and his brother toasted was obviously such a horrible person yeah Harold got rid of him yeah we all know families can be difficult and I've I feel for Harold trying to deal with tosti and he initially he has he's got a nice Oldham in the north things are going nicely for him but he pushes his luck and you know and I think how Harold deals with it with great great dignity so you're a Harold fan yeah uh you are not all info anyone else overrated uh I think the Tudors in general are overrated because they're not and that their imagery is great the portraits of Henry VIII and Elizabeth the First in particular that's that's great iconography but they're a bit of an afterthought for of medieval kingship really and it's and I think in their time England is essentially accepting its own mediocrity Henry VIII it's got to be said he's been overcovered but he is a lot of fun I understand why he's had so much coverage and in a way looked at in terms of if you take the job of a king not to be to rule his own age but to give lots of interesting stories to Prosperity he he has been an amazing content provider and and I do accept that he's fun but I've had a bit of enough of him and and also if you think about him for more than five minutes he was of he was so awful and unbearable you know he almost he'd rather a complete Tyrant but the fact that he had a sort of an intelligent thoughtful intellectual side to him almost makes his uh his tantrums and his crushing the security yeah all the more uh contempt so you're a blood and thunder guy I mean you're a heart you like you like a king was it Henry the fourth of Navarre and France said you know I rule with my ass in my saddle and my sword in my hand that's your archetype well that was the way to do it that's what Henry II did and he's one of the most effective medieval monarchs albeit one who sort of met with a sad lonely end yeah Henry the first was great and he's a professional I I like it I agree he he got one of his brothers yeah he usurped the throne brutally which is well no that was a terribly unfortunate hunting accident The New Forest where poor Prince Harry saw his older brother William get get killed that very accidentally not on purpose at all well he definitely bounced back quickly from his grief uh and uh did what and got in ahead of his poor the elder brother I mean what a life one of life's losers yeah Robert Curtis who died he was made very old bones but spent most of his life in Cardiff Castle um and you know Cardiff wasn't the vibrant Center then that it is now so I you know I feel uh feel sorry for him but now Henry the first he was just it just feels like his professionally got it what you have to do you have to be horrible they were all horrible you have to be willing to kill at a moment's notice but if you do it with a rationale you do it even-handedly you don't have favorites and you have some notion of the stable government you want to be heading towards then then it can work out and he created a very peaceful Kingdom albeit through violence and and in those days that's sort of As Good As It Gets and also another thing he doesn't do that many of the other ones that Vie for best King they all do do is he didn't try and Conquer too many other places that puts a lot of pressure on the kingdom when the hundreds of years where every King of England is trying also to be king of France and it's not really viable but he said no I've got Normandy in England and I'm gonna Happy Days yeah okay so tutors are overrated William the conqueror's overrated anybody else you you came to really think was Elizabeth Tudor usually tops the list doesn't she Elizabeth she she I suppose she is she wasn't amazing I struggle with her because sometimes I think God wanted me and all that kind of clever politics and then part they think well island of disaster she left that she left the she didn't solve in the big problem she delayed all the big problems didn't seem to solve any of them so I struggle with her well I the thing about her that that she that people don't seem to say but strikes me and it's a success of her brand building that people don't say it she was just very very cautious yeah and she inherited the throne at a time when she was you know she was the daughter of Anne Berlin the countries hugely divided religiously speaking she was in an extremely insecure position and had a and had had a tricky life up to then so I understand the caution it's an intelligent person's response but she she sort of knew she was on a Sticky Wicket and behaved like it really and she was yeah they aren't repelling the Armada went well but everything she actively pushed out into the world was essentially underfunded and nervously done well and yeah she um she underfunded the parole Sailors who fought in our mind as well into the to their great detriment so when she sort of launched her own Armada didn't she we have a couple of years later that went at least as bad we've got that one yeah what's our there I ask we got top three well I'd have to I think Henry II was pretty amazing I think so too he held together I mean he astonishing most of France as well as England and it's all down to energy and also he had I think he wasn't great at dealing with his own family because the relentlessness with which his sons tried to overthrow him does it to me it suggests that he must have been a difficult chap you know domestically speaking first and second yeah um I'm wondering about well look at the the big two in terms of trying to conquer France uh Henry V and Edward III yeah they both tried with all their might to take over France and they both nearly succeeded but the whole notion of trying to take over France is so ridiculous that can you count them great Kings so that they've devoted themselves to something that was just it was a horrible experience for the both of the armies and and the and the poor French I mean that you sort of think about they think about all these the famous battles of the Hundred Years War uh poetier Cressi and and uh Agincourt these great victories were outnumbered English armies destroy Huger French armies because the French armies have got a ridiculous strategy it makes the English The Underdogs it makes us feel all good and Plucky but the reality is all of this is happening in France the reason the English is so outnumbered is that they have left home in order to destroy the lives livelihoods crops and Villages of people in a neighboring country you've done them no harm so that suddenly slightly turns around the whole Plucky Underdog thing to say no what they are is nasty thieving Bandits and you know sometimes a burglar will be in a house and find himself outnumbered by the people that live there but that doesn't make him Plucky I think you're setting quite difficult set of parameters because you like a thug but you don't want them yeah exactly but you don't want them to be you like them to be sort of thuggish Within a kind of national Community rather than invading the next door one yes well I think what I'm expecting firstly I I you say I like a thug I think the thuggish nature of government then was regrettable yeah but it's all thuggish so you can choose the the the sort of Bonkers thugs that you don't know what they're going to do next the more even-handed thugs the thugs that fail in their aims the more successful Thugs and so on the basis that they're all thugs yes I'm picking the even-handed successful thugs over the unsuccessful capricious thugs apparently that's that's very clear I have a soft spot Henry III who I don't think was thuggish enough but he certainly his worst enemy wouldn't call him a thug you're right Henry III and indeed Richard II and Ethel red the unready the unusual thing uh a medieval King that doesn't really want to go until 106th and Henry VI is another one but yeah he was I mean he had more problems than that you know nowadays we don't want our leaders starting Wars in those days if you didn't want to ride into battle it's a a big part of the job description that you're not willing to cover what makes good king or queen I mean the organized violence side of it aside is there anything else I I think that I think all of the things that we expect from government today you've just got to ignore that they're not trying for any of it they're not trying for peace on the contrary they're Waging War in terms of education and health care they're just they're not interested forget about it um so all you can expect is stability that's the the good Kings provide stability the bad kings don't and that stability comes from being predictable in your actions and firm and not having favorites and I think that's why the people you know I'm you know Henry the first was particularly good at that he's even-handed he didn't have a clique the worst kings the ones that caused the most trouble uh Richard II Edward II Henry VI have favorites you were talking about kingship like they don't have human bodies themselves so I know as I get older I realize how different I am at various different stages of my life and these people as you mentioned over the third they're trying to beard with the third but yeah you know well you can be able to third as a young man but then or you've also got a beard with the third as a guy crippled with musculoskeletal pain and you know yeah it's fascinating isn't it how how they're they they age and then that changes the nature of their rule yes yes and perhaps we expect too much of them and one of the biggest mistakes I think Henry the first made was at the end of his Reign when he uh caused a rift between himself and Jeffrey and Matilda his daughter who was you know his designated Heir and because he basically refused to give Jeffrey so castles that have been promised to him and that is an old man Clinging On to all of his possessions and and telling himself he's frightened if he gives these castles to Jeffrey that that's going to start Jeffrey trying to take over Normandy which I think there's no evidence for at all but what he the fear he's feeling really is of death um but he projects that on to his son-in-law and as a result of that Rift that gave Stephen the next king the excuse to claim that Henry the first didn't really want Matilda to inherit the throne and that causes 20 years of Civil War and that's but that's the product of the changing mentality of an aging man um and obviously Edward Edward III he completely outlived his faculties and that that was a shame as well he'd been this great General and quite a good leader and clearly an effective father because his family liked him and had a strong marriage with his Queen but then she died and he starts to lose his grip and is very much in the thrall of his lover and the country starts going bankrupt because he's still trying to fight a war in France and it's a very very sad end to a very glorious Reign I think wives are important and they're often overlooked aren't they I think Henry the first had a very good wife and the second had a remarkable wife and as you say but like I think the the those are some of the details that we can ignore perhaps as as traditionally men have written about them through the kind of military level yeah yeah and we don't we don't hear so much about the um the Queens um the Queen's consort speaking of amazing wise we've got Ella of aquatony we kind of mentioned but then Emma of Normandy is fascinating she married two my big wife of two kings Emma of normally was married initially to Ethel red the unready she was his second wife of his first wife was called Elfie foe and so he made Emma change her name to elfiafu uh made things easy for him but anyway when he died she then married the next king but one canoot and so she was she's from Normandy and she's married into the Anglo-Saxon Royal house and then the Danish Royal House [Music] Ed with the Confessor was the later King her son by Knute Hearth Knute was later King she was a major sort of power node at that time and she kicks off the whole relationship between England and Normandy and we know where that led and so we we don't have any of her words we don't really know what she was thinking or or saying but she was right at the center of things and an amazing Survivor um so yeah that's it's a sort of sign that there are that there are powerful women doing things as well but we're not necessarily as aware of them as we should be when you're sitting there in modern Britain writing away do you think these men and women do they matter like I in the older I get the more what did it did it or was it all just science and engineering and and microbes and and do you think that the people in charge make a difference well yes I I I wish I knew they definitely expecting an actual comprehensive answer right now they definitely make a difference in the short term but here's the big question in terms of the period I've done you've got for a long time in the Anglo-Saxon period all the relationships between from England are with Scandinavian kingdoms because of the Vikings and you have King knut who is uh basically rules England and much of Scandinavia and and it sort of feels like that's England's orbit um and then suddenly a few of the right people die and that all changes and William the Conqueror comes over and England's orbit is all France and then you have Henry II and you know it's almost like the whole Direction the country's looking in swivels round was that inevitable would that have happened if it we know if commute's kids hadn't been so bloody useless well yes if he'd had more effective heirs or if William the Conqueror had lost at Hastings which could easily have happened Harold the godwins is very much more Scandinavian looking would that would that Trend have continued or was the impact on England of Normandy and by extension France inevitable that cultural power was a force beyond the control of any uh man or men so would it would without willing the Conqueror would the you know the Anglo-Saxon Royal House still have basically been dealing with France 100 years later and you see how I've avoided us answering your question by just reposing it what a pro I could yeah I could be a politician couldn't that should be yeah you're wasted it [Music] best Monarch to go for a beer with Monarch to go for a beer with I think young Henry VII okay I think Young Henry VII would be good company but I wouldn't trust him best Monarch to be your brother-in-law to marry your sister and marry your sister that's I mean that is an incredibly specific question best Edward IV yeah a bit of a shagger he was a bit of a shower but I tell you what he did for his uh wife's family oh they're okay that's a very good way of looking at it absolutely showered them with wealth but also I I think Edward IV is slightly underrated as well because he was quite cute David Mitchell's sister has listened to this podcast you are you are I don't have a sister well there you go that's why okay that makes a lot of sense she is there simply to bring honors and jewels upon the rest of the family I think they would they would have said that family he made an okay brother-in-law yeah that's true and then his little brother came along and had them all killed yeah um the best one's gone a Stag Night team building exercise on a Windswept island off the coast right now what do you want from someone like that you're on a team building I mean if what you if if you me you want the Monarch will guide you to the latest Pub that the nearest pub that has nice rooms so you can avoid them navigating exercise and so yeah I don't know I think maybe you see Edward IV would be quite good for that sort of thing he he liked his Creature Comforts I mean they killed him in the end um by I'm going to try and think of someone Richard the lionheart okay there you go yeah he was he was good he was good at Logistics and yeah I think if he if he was I think if you could say did you tell him it was the Holy thing to do you need to say we need to go on a crusade to find the pub yeah he was well he did well on Cyprus which is an island so yeah I guess yeah um Dave Mitchell thank you very much for coming on this uh this show what is the book called It's called unruly and it does all of the Kings of England from the Anglo-Saxons to Elizabeth at first all of your medieval kingship needs will be met and it has color photography what yeah although no photographs of the actual kings and queens sadly but that's because photography wasn't invented in time it's not my fault so instead you have the Dreadful drawings that were done of them by various medieval monks very good thank you for coming on thank you for having me David how are you very well thank you well it's good to have you now you say live this isn't live no it's not live live recording did I say like yeah live recording that's actually a contradiction well let's say we're live now so we may be dead by the time thanks for watching this video on the history Hit YouTube channel you can subscribe right here to make sure you don't miss any of our great films that are coming out or if you are a true history fan check out our special dedicated History Channel History hit dot TV you're gonna love it

Channel: History Hit

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Keywords: history hit, history hit youtube, david mitchell, david mitchell history, david mitchell kings and queens, david mitchell unruly, history of englands kings and queens, horrible histories kings and queens, david mitchell book, dan snow king and queens, england kings and queens, david mitchell podcast, podcast dan snow, david mitchell henry viii, dan snow david mitchell, funny history, funny history podcast, funny history video, david mitchell peep show, peep show mark history

Id: HqwMLCh8RnE

Length: 29min 52sec (1792 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 06 2023