This is kind of your old
stomping grounds here, isn’t it? It is. This represents my world — the world of Ancient Near
Eastern history and archaeology. There are so
many fascinating things that you can study here
from the Neo Assyrian Empire to the Babylonian Empire. And even the periods
before and after that. This is just incredible. Here we have
the bull of Khorsabad, the winged bull which represents the glory and might
of the Neo Assyrian Empire, with the head
of the King Sargon II. My goodness. And as we come down here, we see the lions from the Gate
of Ishtar in the city of Babylon during
the Neo Babylonian Empire. And this is
the Mesopotamian wing. Here's some of the inscriptions
from Gudea of Lagash. Oh my goodness…. Some of the important statues. Some of the pottery. Huh. This is an amazing map. This is where it
all begins, isn't it? This is. The Ancient Near
East is the area that I've devoted my life and my research
and my writing to. And I've done archaeological
digs in several places including Tell Tayinat up here
in the northern Lavant, as well as Hazor down
in the Land of Israel. I've been at a dig
in Israel around Lachish. That was a major dig. A major dig, an important site. The second largest
Canaanite city, and the site that I dug at, Hazor, is the very
largest Canaanite site. Doug, why is
this map interesting to you as an archaeologist, rather than a map
of anywhere else in the world? Well, the events
of the Bible are unfolded in the Ancient Near East, which includes Mesopotamia, the Levant, Anatolia,
modern Turkey, Egypt. So, all of these lands
are extremely important to understanding how and what took place
in the biblical text. Doug, we've been looking
at the Genesis record. And we've been looking
at the major events there. The creation,
and then the Flood. And we've looked
at a lot of the evidence associated with that. But now we get to your area. After the flood we
have Noah's family and my understanding is that this is exactly
where all of this begins. Take us back to that record. What do you see? How did all of that play out? Well, certainly, in Genesis 9,
Noah and his family settled on Mount Ararat
which, of course, is not conclusively identified. And it could be a number of sites along the Mountain —
Somewhere up in here…. Somewhere to the north
east of Mesopotamia. And they would have
dispersed undoubtedly in all directions from there. And by the time we get to Genesis 10 and
the Table of Nations, we see a thread of the — not necessarily the geography of
where all of those people went — but through the
genealogies we see that those indeed became peoples who dispersed according
to the instruction that was given after the Flood. Because just as
at the beginning with Adam, you had the instruction
to multiply and fill the earth. That same command was reiterated after the Flood and the peoples
did that very thing and spread and so forth. And that, of course,
leads to Genesis 11, where you have a centralization
of a number of those peoples. And certainly the intent
of Genesis 11 is not to suggest that all of the peoples
of the earth now recollected in one area, but simply that a large number
of them got together in one area and moved toward
the process of urbanization. City living. And that's the famous
Tower of Babel. Absolutely. Do we know where that is? So, I've done an enormous amount
of research in this area. There are about seven
or eight “Babels ”, cities of Babel, in the ancient
area of Mesopotamia. And so one at a time, I've studied all of those areas
and found only one that meets all the criteria of the famous site
of the Tower of Babel. And that is the site of Eridu, which is in south
eastern Mesopotamia. And that is the site,
I have no doubt in my mind, of biblical Babel. And after that event
in the Tower of Babel, that's when we begin
to see the great diversion and the great dispersion
of people groups. If you study
Mesopotamian archaeology, in the prehistorical period —
and that of course, the prehistorical period
is defined by the time period before the advent of writing. In that period there are
only two movements of people. And we're not talking
about movements of pottery or trade that's going on, but only two movements of people where they expand
outward from Mesopotamia. And as part of my study, I looked very carefully
into these two expansions, they're called, and compared
and contrasted them. And found that only one meets
all of the requirements of the dispersion of people at the time
of the Tower of Babel. And that is at the period
of the Late Uruk Period — the Uruk Expansion. Is that right here? So, the expansion takes place from Eridu and people
are expanding outward. We have signs
of the expansion to the north, to the south, to the east, to the west,
all the way as far as Egypt. And of course
throughout the Levant, and even into Anatolia as well. So, as this expansion
took place, of course, it's going to be the largest. You're going to see
the largest remnant of the expansion in the area that's closest to
the city of Babel, which is Eridu, and that largest city
that developed was the city of Uruk itself, which is
the site for the Uruk Period. And when you say evidence, that is the artifacts
that we find in these archaeological digs? Exactly. There's an enormous amount and very specific kinds
of material culture that attest to this expansion
of people that I'm connecting to the post Babel dispersion. Here we have
some bevel-rimmed bowls, which are diagnostic
of the Uruk Period. These forms of pottery
very easy to manufacture. And basically they were molded, so there would have been moulds
made to be able to put clay into each of the molds, and that it would have
been spread to the side. Then they would have been
allowed to cure in the sun. But they could make
it very rapidly. I mean it's the same kind
of technology basically that we have with
the Ford assembly line. This was an assembly line
for the making of pottery. And it coincides
with urbanization. Because when you have
a much larger group of people living in one area, you have to more efficiently take care
of all of those people. That's why you
then build a mold. Exactly. Exactly. And we have fingerprints on many
of the bevel-rimmed bowls that show that they
were made by hand. And there's other important
artifacts as well, such as those two spouted jars. And those spouted jars, in larger form — these
are smaller versions — but in larger form, the spouted
jars are also diagnostic. Actually for the
Middle Uruk Period. And during the Late Uruk Period, for the larger ones
which were beer jars, they would tilt the spout and droop it down to prevent air
from coming in and... causing the beer to go bad. And then we have these important administrative
tablets — these clay tablets — that really were
the precursor to writing. And the Late Uruk Period
actually was the very moment before we have written
language beginning. So, this is the time we really begin to see human beings
either begin to write, or to develop the language
to produce symbols for writing. Absolutely. And it all began
with clay tablets that were used to represent
accounting for numbers of sheep, numbers of goats, and other things. And from this writing
itself developed. Doug, how does all of this, these artifacts that
we see here, how do they fit into your view
then of the Tower of Babel? Does it connect here? It does. Because all of these diagnostic
forms of pottery and material culture — they're found
throughout the Near East because the people from the site
of Eridu expanded to the east, to the south, to the north, and especially we
know of to the west, all the way into
Israel and Egypt. And we find the same kinds
of bevel-rimmed bowls there. We find four-lugged jars. We find riemchen bricks. We find the same monumental
architecture, such as the tripartite buildings. And we find sprouted jars —
all throughout these areas. And that is essentially
a remnant of this movement of people outwards. And this expansion known
as the Uruk Expansion, which I'm connecting
with the Tower of Babel, I'm saying that the Bible
describes an event that's not just
the confusion of language, but it's the dispersing
of people far from that city. And the City of Eridu
was abandoned immediately after the Late Uruk Period and not occupied
again for hundreds and hundreds of years. So, all of this material culture gives us a window
into the events that are connected
with the Tower of Babel. And it’s from these artifacts
that you can see that expansion. That's right. So, this bevel-rimmed bowl that you seem
very excited about, are you saying then that helps you connect
all of these people in their movement? Absolutely. In fact the bevel-rimmed bowl is
one of the most diagnostic forms of pottery and material culture
for this entire expansion. That shows that this people
group moved out from Eridu. Does that also
help you understand that that must have been
a rapid movement? Because you don't see
change in those bowls? Yes, it shows us that at an immediate
moment in time, people literally packed
their bags and left the area of southern Mesopotamia. And they show up in other places throughout
the Ancient Near East. And what's different
about this expansion in contrast to the earlier Ubaid expansion, the other of two expansions that took place during
the prehistorical period, the Uruk expansion
is characterized by a very different way of
interacting and way of settling. And let me give you
a couple examples. First of all,
we have a lot of sites that were established
on virgin soil. Also, wherever they
settled with people, either there was an attack of the community, people in
the community already there. And they would literally wipe
them out and take over. Or if they lived among them, they would live in
what we call the world's first segregated living. They would live in the same vicinity as
the original occupants, but next door. Not intermingling and living in the same houses
on the same streets. So, we have evidence
of different people groups now for the first time? Absolutely. And the world's
first segregated life. So, that would be
the evidence — or the symptom, I guess — of what you
would expect of those people that were dispersed
from the Tower of Babel, now with a different language and immediately a
different people group. Right. And that's why we
have segregated living, because they weren't able
to blend with one another, converse with one another. So it makes sense that they would live in
separate areas around the town. And the same dynamic happens
within big cities all around the world where you
have multiple people groups. A people group comes in, they can't speak
the local language, and they develop a community
within that city that's a very ethnically
singular group of people. Doug, the issue of language
is very interesting. And that's part
of archaeology, isn't it, because you see
the evidences of language? What do you see
in that evidence? Well, it's absolutely important because once language is found
in the archaeological record, we now have communication
from the people of that day that are telling us
something about themselves. And writing is the expression
of that communication. And the clay tablets that
we've looked at here are an important aspect of that because they're from
a transitional point where written language
had not been developed yet. And they were
on the verge of it. And we see, on their tablets
that they make, there are strokes
and there are pictures that we call pictographs. And then after the period
of the Late Uruk expansion, we see language develop in different places probably
first in Mesopotamia with the strokes that were used on these clay
tablets now becoming part of the cuneiform script. And in other places
such as Egypt, we see hieroglyphics. That's the result of pictographs
that also were part of the original clay
tablet writing mechanism. Doug, what I hear
you saying is that it's as if languages just pop up —
they begin to appear. Is that how you see it and does it support then
the Genesis Paradigm? Absolutely, it supports
the Genesis Paradigm because we see the written
expression of language just pop up out of nowhere. And then different
languages being represented through cuneiform script
or through hieroglyphic script or other means. So, language is something
that will break down over time. It goes from complex to simple. And we see that reflected in the archaeological record
in the form of tablets and other forms of text. That's very interesting because we've been looking
at physical design and how the design of very
exquisite physical things had to be in place all at once
and then it decays from there. You're saying that that is the same thing
we see in language. It's the same dynamic
with language as well. Grammar of language
is very specific to the certain given language. We have various expressions
of grammar that are in languages that are not found
in other languages. So, the very fact
that we have aspects of language that are diverse between
languages — some languages have certain moods, some have that others don't, some have certain tenses
that others don't, some have forms
of describing things that are different
than other languages. So, you do not have
a universal plan that's followed among all
of the languages. You see great diversity
in the forms of grammar from language to language even
in ancient languages. Basically, this incredible
dynamic of language, which becomes expressed
in different ways, with different scripts around
the entire Ancient Near East, and in a great diversity
within these languages and the grammatical forms — all of that reflects
a very sudden ability to communicate writing. So all of this fits perfectly
with what we would see as the biblical account of
how languages took place. It's really the only way
of explaining this. So, the integrity
of biblical history ultimately is justified by the expression
of these languages. Doug, I know that you've spent a lot
of time looking at that issue of the Tower of Babel. And trying to understand
actually where it really did occur. What have you found? Well, what I found
essentially is a gold mine within the historical
and archaeological record. And basically the site
of Eridu was called Babel in ancient times
in a number of sources. And it's one of seven or eight
cities that were called Babel. And it's the only one
that meets all of the historical requirements
for the Tower of Babel. It was around at the right time. We have diagnostic pottery
and other forms of material culture
from the Late Uruk Period that are found at Eridu. And we have, very fascinating, two forms
of monumental architecture. One, we have a temple that existed in
18 different phases and in every phase it grew
in its size and its complexity. And that final phase
of the temple, it was abandoned immediately
right at the time of the Late Uruk expansion. And catacorner to the temple was an absolutely
enormous platform. And that platform was
so large it dwarfed this large temple that existed. You think that could
be the foundation of the Tower of Babel? Absolutely. In fact what
archaeology demonstrates is that the foundations
of that temple display the kinds of diagnostic material culture
from the Late Uruk period. And they found that the original bricks
that were added onto it were from that period. But it was never completed. It wasn't until hundreds
of years later, during the Third Dynasty of Ur, that the kings of the dynasty decided that this eyesore
in their neighboring city of Eridu was no longer
to sit uncompleted. So they completed
this structure, which is exactly what we see in other areas
around Mesopotamia and beyond, known as a ziggurat. And a ziggurat essentially is
the equivalent of a tower. So I would suggest to you
that that uncompleted tower, that wasn't completed until hundreds of years later at
Eridu on that massive platform, that is the Tower of Babel. Now, most of us think
today of a tower… the kinds of things
we see in big cities, big straight walls. Is that what they were building? Well, essentially it's
a variation of a pyramid. And there were four sides to it
and several stairways that would go up to the top. But these ziggurats weren't
restricted even to Mesopotamia. We find forms of these ziggurats
all around the globe. And I would suggest to you that this Late Uruk expansion
where this technology began, where this form of
monumental architecture began, was something that spread
with the people. Because even though they
spoke different languages, they went where they went
with their own culture, their own technological
background and understanding, and their own abilities
to build and construct that they all shared
together there at Babel, which again I'm calling
the city of Eridu. Well, obviously we have
evidence here of civilization and people beginning
to gather together in communities, even cities. Do we have any other
evidence of that? Yeah, we have other evidence
in the Bible of this move toward urbanization. And probably the best example
is the identity of the man in the Bible known as Nimrod. I've done a lot
of research on Nimrod, studied the passage
very carefully, and studied the archaeology
of the time periods that it could be related
to very carefully. And I'm very much convinced that Nimrod biblical Nimrod is
Sargon of Akkad. The cities that it says that Nimrod captured
and of course Babylon is part of that. And Kalhu and Ninevah — important cities in
the Assyrian Empire, the later Assyrian Empire. So, what we see about Nimrod, that's true in the
biography of Sargon. So, the record we have
in Genesis concerning Nimrod and all that he conquered
matches the artifacts that we see for Sargon. Yeah, it matches the artifacts and matches the history and it
matches the epigraphical record that tells us from the very Akkadian people themselves what
was his path of achieving glory, conquering cities, and becoming the
first empire builder. So, is there a next phase
in these artifacts that moves us beyond Sargon? Absolutely, we can move forward to the time of Abraham
because we know that Abraham lived
at the site of Ur, which was also
in southern Mesopotamia, at the end of the
third millennium B.C. That brings us
to the end of Genesis 11. Exactly. And we have
those artifacts here? We do. In fact, you see some pottery,
some cuneiform tablets, all dating to the period
of the Third Dynasty of Ur. Basically, the Third Dynasty
of Ur was the successor to the Akkadian dynasty. And they became the kings
of the four corners of the earth and succeeded in taking
over the territories that they Akkadians held. And, of course, Abraham came from this city
and would have in the 21st century
moved into Canaan. And the site of Ur,
interestingly enough, was destroyed toward the end
of the 21st century B.C. — within one century
after Abraham left it. And there is a lamentation
known as the Lamentation of Ur that was written in the Akkadian records about
the destruction of the city. So, Abraham would have been
using pottery similar to what we see here. Absolutely. These would have been the forms
that he knew about and he would have used and he
would have seen in his day. It's amazing, just as we're sitting here
thinking about Abraham, that this represents the culture and the civilization
that he lived in. It's a great tie to that record
in Genesis for us. It is fascinating
and it gives you a feeling of putting your hands
around the events that go on in the biblical text. Yeah.
