Wheel of Rock - Metallica Albums Tier List (with Mike Portnoy)

welcome to the wheel of rock yeah yeah welcome to the wheel of rock our spin-off series of the come should be the wheel of metal that's what we said yeah it just didn't sound as good I said wheel of thrash but you know we we needed it to be mono cabatic cabic syic but I'm glad you going get out of the gates because I was wondering how are you gonna do a wheel of Prague with Metallica so I'm glad youed it right out of the gates so two things if anybody has issues with this or whatever too bad but also uh get your own podcast we like other things we like other bands and we wanted to be able to do this with more bands right and and you get into the Prague world you start to get into there's those long-term bands that have been around forever that have 15 plus albums but a lot of the newer bands everybody asks us to keep doing to do only have six or seven albums you know we get requests for like Riverside or hen or there's not enough albums to really do these with yet I don't think so this allows us to do it with you know a number of cool bands that I think we all really like and of course uh we're GNA kick it off with the metal band of all time Metallica which we' never really covered on the channel but I think we're all fans we've all been fans for a long time of of Metallica and who else to join us on this of course other than Mike ptoi Welcome Back Sir that deserves more Applause again thanks for having me so as we're recording this it's uh just before uh Christmas holidays and this is coming out after New Year's so hopefully everybody had a good break and New Year's and all that stuff um you know Mike 2023 was busy anything interesting happened n not really business as usual it's very quiet year very quiet year for you yeah um well so of course if anybody hasn't if you're just coming back from Mars and entering planet Earth uh yeah Mike's back in Dream Theater which we're all very excited about I mean that was really the news that broke the internet I mean there's been there's been posts that have gotten a lot of but this was crazy I mean I guess there's not a lot to give away and and some stuff has been out there that you've done some some interviews or whatever but I I think the main thing we I'm curious about is I'm sure you expected there to be some excitement about it but that had to have blown you away the response it was um it's weird you know it was a weird Sensation that day when the news dropped it was um you ever it's kind it was kind of like It's a Wonderful Life if you ever wonder like when uh when somebody passes away and then the internet blows up with a million accolades and everybody's talking about them for a couple days and your social media feed is filled with you know paying tribute to this person that passed away it kind of felt like that but I was alive to witness it you know like for for about 24 48 hours that was all I was seeing into my feed so I was actually it was pretty nice to be alive to witness the excitement and it wasn't like you know paying tribute to somebody that's passed away and it's too late and it was like a it's like it's a wonderful life like the movie like I actually got to witness what it was like and uh it was amazing to see the excitement and you know what can I say it really is exciting and uh but to see everybody's enthusiasm about it was uh really really an incredible thing to experience and witness and I just can't wait to get get to work now you know I have some uh loose ends I got to finish tying up before I can get into the studio with the guys but yeah we're we're so looking forward to actually being in a room and reigniting I guess I'm thinking about when we did the opth wheel did you knew by then right you had to have known by then no no uh you know that we kind you know there was a sense that this may happen and it could happen and as uh the last couple years kept evolving and you know I'm doing LTE 3 and I'm doing John's solo album and his tour and uh you know go you know reconnected with James lebre there was all these things that felt like maybe it could happen and uh but I I can't say I knew it was going to to happen when we uh when I was with you last no yeah oh I can't put I can't I I can't really divulge an a specific timeline of how it evolved if that's what you're trying to squeeze out of me no well you know some some website's gonna pick that up he knew on Thursday the November 2nd right and yeah uh yeah exactly uh hey any of you guys have any questions about it do you want to chime in I mean these can be be edited out later if they're unacceptable questions well Kyle I was gonna ask for my drum kit back yeah need it again I I've been keeping it warm out yeah I mean I got a bunch of questions but uh I think one that just I don't know if you want to answer this or not um the drum set uh look that you're going to go for uh you know are you you thinking you're going to go all the way back to like this you know enormous like Siamese monster type kit or you going to kind of pair it down do you know no it's I gotta go you go big or go home you go big when you when you go home right no I mean I have it's got to be big in fact I already know what what I'm using in the studio we already have that set up and planned um but I I'm not going to D divulge that yet but I uh I'm going to be bringing an old friend back uh into the studio with me to record the new album and then uh what I do live actually Jose and I and the people at Tama have already started kicking around set up ideas for touring kids so yeah but it'll be big I mean you know that's yeah that was my tradition with Dream Theater and with Dream Theater these big monster kits was always kind of my uh you know my thing so of course I gotta I got to continue that going back home with them yeah sweet we love you in Dream Theater that's how we knew you you left we were wondering what was going to happen you're back with them there's great joy but man the stuff that you kept on coming up with during the time you were not in Dream Theater um there was a lot of great stuff and you inspired a lot of people and there was just so much great music um is there any any feeling of of closure with that stage of your life is this something where because in Dream Theater you were already doing Progressive Nation not progression to see but you were already trying to grow the genre you pretty much took it onto yourself with all the bands that you were a part of um in the future is that something where you know are you g to feel the tug and pull from fans as far as the off Dream Theater stuff well first of all I appreciate uh what you said thank you appreciate that but um yeah you asked if there is some sense of closure I think so I think uh you know I did first 25 years with Dream Theater and then i' spent 13 years you know which is almost half that time uh with the post Dream Theater chapter and I did so much I mean I so I mean it's got to be 50 albums or whatever with with dozens of bands I could not have been more fulfilled with how I spent those Dozen Years uh apart from Dream Theater I could not have possibly written a more productive script R than what I was able to do and Achieve and create so um you know some of some of those projects and and relationships will continue into the future but obviously Dream Theater is now my my home again and that's my priority and uh surely for these first couple years back you know that's going to be my focus and I will be devoted you know to that primarily probably without much distraction you know down the years maybe uh you know we could I could revisit some stuff with some of those relationships and bands and projects and people we'll see but um you know I'm just kind of looking where I'm at now and where I'm at now is back in Dream Theater and that's going to be the focus and we start work on a new album after the new year and I cannot wait to tour and get on stage with those guys again that's going to be that's to be the most exciting thing about it of it all um so where the future lies for any of my other bands and projects time will tell uh some will probably slip away some Will Will Survive and we'll see and might have future chapters but right now my focus is just on Dream Theater but I do have a tremendous sense of closure for all of that stuff I did do over the last 12 13 years and it was an an amazing adventure and an amazing ride and I couldn't be happier with you know the the fruits of my labor really it was an incredible time but I'm ready for this this this uh I don't want to say Final Act but the reality is if you look at our ages and you know it it probably is the final act it probably is act three for and uh you know there is really no better place that I should be spending it than with uh where it all began with my brothers and in Dream Theater you know we formed that band when I was in college you know the three of us formed it in college as teenagers it really uh it makes it's poetic justice that we should write off into the sunset uh together and and end it together as well it really seems like that's the way it should be 100% nice that's great really cool it's really cool to see you talking with the excitement that you have because that's obviously what the rest of the world has too you know everybody's been wanting this for a long time but you genuinely seem like kind of giddy about it which is great that's it's exciting it's really cool join the club so man awes you know it's kind of like to be honest for all those years I was like I would dream about reuniting with the guys you know and I mean literally dream you know while I'm sleeping I would have these occurring dreams about it and there was always a part of me was like man I I hope this isn't a Roger Waters Pink Floyd thing or Peter Gabriel Genesis thing where it just doesn't happen and the world ends with the re reunion never happening I always hoped and prayed that this wouldn't be a situation like that you know I'd see you know Maiden reunions maiden and Sabbath and you know all these bands reuniting with a with a classic lineup or or or member and I always hoped that that that would be the case with me in Dream Theater and I'm so happy to see that it it really it did come to fruition and it didn't become a Roger Waters Pink Floyd thing that's just gonna never happen again I'm so glad to see that it actually did and is um so you youve always been the keeper of the legacy of the band you know you got every recording and every you know every demo everything you that you guys have ever done and obviously you were in charge of that before all back there somewhere there it is there it is uh so have you guys and then this might be the question that you can't answer on camera but uh have you guys talked about that are you going to be in charge of you know the catalog again or the yeah we we haven't we haven't discussed roles we want them to happen naturally and organically we don't want them to be like assigned or delegated just yet you know we're different people you know uh when I left the band I was in my early 40s and now here I am uh in my mid to late 50s and some members are in their 60s now uh we're different people we're older we're wiser we have a lot more experience and time and we're different people so our roles will I think organically um evolve you know obviously I have to respect the 13 years they've been doing this without me uh you know I was a very different person when I left the band 13 years ago I was definitely a control freak definitely somebody that like hoarded everything and I as you said like the historical keeper of the of everything Dream Theater um but they've been doing it 13 years without me now and I need to respect that and uh and naturally find my place with with you know the new Dream Theater uh but my my natural you know that I'm not my personality is not going to change I'm still going to be a collector I'm still going to be an archist a historian and all that stuff and you know wanting to shake up the set list that's not going to change that's just my natural personality and energy so uh that's not going to go away but how it gets utilized within the band we're GNA let we're going to see how that all naturally and organically evolves awesome cool that sounds like you guys are like kind of like a family that's gotten back together and knows their you know not knows their place but knows the dynamic and that you guys have changed that's perfect man that's awesome yeah absolutely it's gonna be that's gonna be Harmony within I think so the prodigal son has returned there you go all right so we got we got set list shakeup that's a that's a big deal there so yeah all right you heard it here first let's not do anymore before we get Mike in trouble okay that's it for me yeah let's go ahead bring up bring up the wheel so wait just to reiterate because I don't think I heard the rules we're doing five tiers with three each what's what's going on here well the bottom row is gonna have only two we have 14 albums in there we threw in a few sort of uh debatable ones we went back and forth Garage in is in there SNM is in there Lulu is in there just to give us some more to choose from and you know maybe chances to put something in D frankly um so uh and then uh there'll be a wild card and and then we'll go why don't we um why don't we start with Vic then we'll go Kyle myself other Kyle and Mike you could get the last so that way you can have the chance to to shape this thing towards the end you get you'll get the last spin which uh you know be good we good there we'll kick it off who oh nice nice we' we've brought special effects all right let's spin it let's go up first spin that wheel all right oh you start with a wild card wow wow wow all right 72 Seasons the newest album all right I'm curious where we where you go with this one let's see well you know there's being the first one is always tough cuz you know I don't want to give away too much and speaking about other albums um uh I think Metallica is in a really good spot now I love their production I love just the style that they're recording in um I love you know there there's not the past controversies of you know the bass wasn't loud enough or the snare or whatever it is I really like how this last wave of album sounds I I love the aggressiveness uh the fact that they are still this fast and this aggressive and they still sound like Metallica and kicking butt at this point is is really joyful for me um this is an album that uh I'm gonna put it in B tier wow okay good I'm gonna put it in B tier uh it I don't think it's going to you know again you gotta think you know this is a band that when we started out man they just blew us out of the water they just defined what they do and then you know they they sort of went went through some adventures and everything else and where they've landed they're still metal they're still hard they're still heavy they're still fun to listen to they're still fun for me to pick up my guitar and jam along with them which is why I love this manand to begin with they're the reason why I play guitar the way that I do James heftfield and how he plays his hands the sound when he down picks those Marshall Stacks you know those EMG active pickups that sound yeah yeah yeah yeah but all right but is this album the reason why you do any of those things no I I think I think B is it's a good it's a good solid record it's not I didn't love it it feels like Metallica by numbers I I I I think B is generous some okay stuff on it given the other albums on this list I don't know I think luxat turn is a good song but it's like three minutes long I think I don't know well it'll become I think more evident at least from my perspective that this is ranked a little high at this point I think this is a good spot for this one to start off with because it can you know it can go up or down I think it's I think it's a I had it in B I had it in B when they released Lux ET Turner I think it was the same week they announced that tour and I was so hyped for that song I bought like the most expensive Metallica tickets I've ever bought didn't regret it for a second I mean and and the rest of the album I think this is exactly where I had it too Vic I had it in p uh there's I mean they got an 11 minute song you know to fill out the album in in in amarada um they're back to you know got get the really cool double guitar leads I think Lars is being a little bit more experimental with his drumming this I think this is a really good record I'm really happy with where Metallica is at in 2023 do you think yeah no it's I I think for me be because it's still the newest and the freshest I probably don't have a proper perspective on it yet I think I don't want to talk about other albums but I will say their last two albums it kind of feels like the load and reload of a Next Generation and I don't mean in terms of songwriting or quality I mean just in terms of they feel like a pair to me uh you know this this one in hardwired and it's hard for me to gauge which I like better yet because it's they're still very fresh but but like Vic said I think they're in a good place I think you know the their last two or three albums they definitely feel reinvigorated they're not really taking many many extreme chances like like Vic said with the missing bass or a snare drum that sounds like a can you know they're not doing things like that that would really piss somebody off or or you know freak anybody out you know they're doing what Metallica do and uh and they're doing it well I mean you I I really can't say there anything on the new album that's terribly bad you know I think it's solid it's solid as as yeah and I I think the last two albums are about that way I personally I I would probably put it in a c tier but I could see it being in be in B but for me there's other albums I like more so I would have put it in C but I could see it being on the back end of B makes sense yeah I think it it'll it'll adjust one way or the other I think around there all right um Kyle all right I'm excited to see what I get I am hoping it's not Lulu let's see is it gonna go up is it gonna go up gonna up ah garage garage in okay this is where it's going to get tricky yeah all right so so garage ink for me is a it's it's going to be a borderline between I'll just be honest B and C that's for me um things I like about this album as a kid and and I think my perspective is going to differ a little bit better or a little bit more because Metallica was the first band that I loved they're the first band that I like in a sense worshiped let's say and as I was getting into playing the drums like Lars was it and you know they were the band and so it turns out that a lot of the songs are on garage Inc where some of the easiest for us to cover is like 12 and 13 and 14 year olds so like die die my darling we'd play that like all the time and like in in you know now I listen to that song like that song's okay but like I love that song and I love songs like bread fan we were talking about some of these songs the other day um you know I think uh what whiskey and the jars on there which you know some people might think that's lame same with like turning the page but those are great versions and actually I I saw that Whiskey in the Jar is like their sixth or seventh most stream song um and so uh man uh the queen cover that's on there uh Stone Cold crazy Stone Cold crazy is is awesome it's incredible so um I think the problem with garage Inc is that the quality of the sound recordings because it was done over so many different years and at different times it varies quite a bit but I think that's cool too because you get like a kind of a postcard from different moments in the band's uh technical abilities and there's a history that's attached to all of it so for me I'm talking about now I could almost make put it in a but for me it's a b tier album I I really like it and I like the fact Vic said this the other day as we were talking about it they are a garage band at their core and this really it it it cements them as such and gosh there's so much music on this thing too there's even like the Merciful Fate like thing and even like weird stuff like Last Caress and green hell and as a kid like hearing like so what and be like oh my God I can't believe you said that you know there's just all kinds of different stuff on this so I really like this one I I come back to this one a lot too I think it's kind of cool they they combined Garage Days garage days re-revisited and then all the bsides when they were doing uh singles for the Black Album um you know and so you have a yeah it's a conglomerate of of all their time but absolutely it it's I think Metallica is like they're Co they're they're so good at covers that people cover their covers you know it's and and people didn't know they were covers oh exactly like my my favorite song the one that stands out is the prince the prince is just oh and you know that's when you you learn about their influences and Diamond Head and you go back and listen to you know all their stuff am I evil from you know that originally was on uh to kill uh kill them all and to learn that oh that's not them that's they're covering that song but they just have a way of of making it their own and it and it sounds so awesome um interesting to have a full covers album that is rated at B um mine I agree with Kyle borderline BC um but it's not because their stuff isn't great in there um you know I would say I would when this 598 you guys remember came out this is this is the reissue longbox a couple years ago but when that original 598 came out I that's it flipped out those five songs I wasn't familiar with most of the Bands they were covering and if this were ranked basically on just Metallica playing songs doesn't matter if they wrote them or not at literal s tier for me based on those five songs including breadfan including the prince so Uncle crazy um and adding all the stuff I love Whiskey and a jar I like their version better than than Lizzy um but I can see where you know it's not their their stuff I can see where you guys would rank it a little lower but well literally I think that's why I think that's why it's included in something like this because it's it's in most cases you wouldn't I wouldn't include a covers album every band has one and usually I shy away from the covers albums I'm not generally a person that's interested in that stuff um but I think in their catalog it's it's held up as more of like a legit record for some reason well how often the bands do a full cover album you know it's not like it's that common for like a full like full-blown covers album I mean honestly the the bonus disc on uh black clouds I love that freaking thing I talk about that every chance I get like I think it's cool like when you take cover songs that you know at the at the best you take a cover song that's known and you do it in a different way it doesn't mean it's better or worse or whatever it's just it becomes its own thing I think is there's an art to that so I don't know there's definitely an art to how they do covers and and Shining Light On songs we don't know but then also taking like Turn the Page an enormous song and doing it in it own in its own way where there's emotion attach different I hated that version I like it I think it's awesome I love it I hated it you know I saw what I what I think makes their covers you know they're so they wear their influences on their sleeve and they always give props to Diamond Head and the Misfits and all that stuff yeah you know I was at the Power Trip Festival a couple months ago out in the desert and you guys have probably seen the video like there there they are down front you know air guitaring to Judas Priest I mean they just they're still fans you know it doesn't matter how big you get it's it's like a drummer that's on our podcast right now who is a fan first you know who who appreciates music before being in a band so I think that that translates into their cover songs and kind of makes them their own Mike you and I you and I are closer in age what did you think when that when that EP first came out well first of all that was our first taste of Jason and little do we know that was going to be our only Taste of him for a little while but yeah I mean that was the first thing that they put out after Cliff died and after Master of Puppets so yeah I played the [ __ ] out of it I loved Crest course and brain surgery there was like all these cool songs I had never heard before you know uh Budgy songs and you know so I loved it and uh and even the the covers that happened before that you know Blitz Greg and Mi evil I would play out those sing those bsides all the time but yeah I I agree in in my personal tier list I had Garage in the in the B tier as well so I I agree with that placement I mean I think this is it's already been said but they really are fans first and still to this day they still are and I I love that mentality I relate to it and uh I think that's one of the things I've always loved about Metallica they are so fan friendly and fan oriented I remember when they did their um 30th Anniversary shows like uh you know 12 years ago whatever it was and they played four nights without repeating a single song other than Seek and Destroy in The Encore other than that the Encore it was four nights of not a single repeat and all special guests and [ __ ] like that is what makes them so cool and you know that's why I immediately love them uh when they came on the scene and still to this day they still are that fan generated kind of band you know even with this last tour you know doing the no repeat weekends it's you know they're they're all about that and I love that yeah I love when they do the By Request they've done that before and that's that takes a lot but it goes goes to show you how they just connect with everything that they do including just pleasing their fans because they are fans all right Roy's dying over there he's got to spin that wheel before he got a lot of albums left who's up now just give me something good no oh god oh damn it okay yes yes yes so upset Kyle's not going to like me after this one um be be real though just be real for a second you can't just hate all music from wait you got let him Kyle I I don't know where he's going I want to hear where he going I anything yet let him talk so you know what's funny out of all you guys I'm I'm probably a step under Metallica fandom like it wasn't a band I obsessed over I had my period where I listened to them from like Master through the Black album was maybe the era of listening to them the most um and then uh Black Album just sort of got oh sick of sick of them already by that time like it was just too much Metallica and I was starting to get into other stuff Dream Theater among things and um then I remember then load came out and I just uh you know I'm okay with the band trying new things I'm not really like a purist like you can only do this for only forever but I also have sort of like a I don't know is a genuine kind of thing and that sort of I I just felt like it was too like try hard a little bit um with load now I know they it was a massive success I was maybe in the opposite of most of the world at that time but I from load for like the next 10 years I disliked most of what they did um so uh yeah I just don't connect with this stuff at all I James I felt started singing weird and had this weird AFF effect in in his enunciations and then L's drumming sort of scaled back and then they were trying to be all kind of grungy I don't know I just didn't get it um so I still don't get it I went back and tried to revisit some of these things and uh I I just don't I just don't connect with it at all I'm I'm on the I'm on the load reload is not very good so I'm with you Roy yeah so I'm not gonna put it in D because there actually is worse stuff but it's it's going I this is the stage where James Hetfield triy to go Glenn Danzig with his vocals um he try to go more Soulful everything had a like a hey hey I don't know it's like he just you know it's he he's always been a Danzig guy and and he I think this is where his vocals I somebody was describing it as he went from like gritty to whiny and you I don't I don't think he went whiny so much again there's other albums to talk about like you said that have worse stuff on it I was surprised Kyle sent out uh it was actually faga sent out this the article that showed the songs that they have never played live and out of this album which my favorite song of this album is actually the house that Jack built there's just a really cool W Solo in the middle of it but this is an album and and this goes to show you the the change of what they were doing when James was no longer playing all the Rhythm guitars and he brought in uh uh he you know the actual tracks from Rhythm tracks from Kurt Hammond um that took away for me the the the tightness the technicality and and the the speed part of it now they weren't speed anymore but even like somewhere on the Black Album where James still recorded all the all the Rhythm guitars there's just a certain precision and tightness and still has that sound this album was a lot looser was a lot bluesier was a lot you know the the the low end which they wanted the low end to be there and Bob Rock was on board with being it sounds like at this point he was more of a Yes Man rather than to say hey guys we need to go this route or you guys are this so you know I like I think you guys yeah counselor you're autal you're autal yeah I I guess in defense of load for for me it's actually in the a tier um I would accept B tier C tier is crazy low crazy low you actually you look at the quality of the songs on this album and granted you have to understand like in 1996 how old was I 12 so like you know I mean In fairness like to see a band evolving towards uh more of a rock or even alternative approach but of course blending in both Blues but also kind of folk and even like country on a song like mama said or something I think it actually shows that they're capable of a lot more than just being a thrash metal band and I love thrash metal I love them as such my favorite albums are the ones they did in the 80s but I think this expands upon what they were able to do otherwise and they found success because it did appeal to a greater number of people if this style of music doesn't appeal to you great but I think to pick it apart for a while the way that James saying or that uh Kirk was contributing rhythm guitar I think that's kind of like to me silly I mean I get why you're saying it it's not silly that you believe that it's just I don't get that I I hear 13 14 songs a lot of which are really great Ain't My [ __ ] is an awesome opening song I love until it sleeps sorry I'm sure you don't I think the lyrical content I think the lyrical content on this album goes deeper and more personal than a lot of their other albums and I think even a song like said is a killer country song that James did about his mom and about the issues that he had there and I think it's really personal and beautiful I think he sings it really well I think musically it's awesome there's great moments on this I think it ends with the outlaw torn which was shortened because of the limitations of a CD so that's actually their little mini epic song you know just about 11 minutes long it's maybe a little bit better on SNM I think it's a great album but you either like it or you don't I guess so that's my appeal I'm in the middle it could very well be that the not to say not to call you like the young I don't mean it like that but I mean just when you are oh I know that yeah when you're when you're first absorbing a band A lot of times like if you if you first discovered Genesis in the 70s at when that was going on versus you discovered them in the 80s that can really influence which one you like more and how you relate to them you know what I mean I it's I think that applies here a little bit maybe I think a big part of it was was just their image you know obviously everybody gave them a hard time for cutting their hair and you know uh the eyeliner and and and the flashy clothes and all that stuff I at the time I was in the music business so I understood marketing and I understood it was the 90s grunge was happening metal was you know dead and they had to do something and it's really what kept them alive do I love that album no but it's funny going back and listening to it for the first time in probably 15 years for this podcast I went the first half of this record is pretty solid I think if they took a few of the songs from reload mat come up with load we would have had a really good '90s Metallica album but it had to be different you know what I mean they they wouldn't have survived if they could kept putting out rash metal stuff in the 90s it just wasn't happening but you know I you know where I'll say a comparison I'll bring in Dream Theater on this but what I always thought Metallica went from album to album and tried to do a definitive sound and whole thing for each album I I give them a lot of credit for that they always tried something different with each thing and almost drastically different but I think Dream Theater did that as well but yet when you guys did that you always still sounded like Dream Theater it never there's there's no Dream Theater grunge record I think I think no metal bands put out a good album in 96 96 97 98 I think if you look at every single band of metal whether it be Slayer Iron Maiden Metallica Queens Reich even Dream Theater you know the albums that will put out around 9798 it was a tough time for the whole industry so I I do appreciate like KY grav said that they had they had to adapt they had to you know and of course they're always leading the way so you know they wanted to do something that was going to literally you know put their stamp on it but for me and this kind of goes against what Kyle fagala was saying like I was I grew up with I had been listening to them at this point for over a decade and I grew up with fight fire Fight Fire with Fire and Whiplash and and all that kind of stuff so to hear first of all when I heard the Black Album that was stunning enough I was like oh man that's not my Metallica anymore and then I never realized how much I loved the Black Album until load came out I was like oh man give me more Black Album if this is that's right right on you know and I was like man they are Metallica where is the metal that's like they should have changed their name to rock talica when they put this album out it's Altera is what they were called Everything I loved about Metallica was no longer here when they put this album out and I I know they had to adapt they had to change and you know being Metallica they're going to even lead the way with with some of these things but to me I as a listener as a fan it didn't click and and um I easily would put this in C and I'm almost I know there's going to be a lot of things that come up here that that people like less than load and reload but I'm actually probably in the minority that I would even possibly put load and reload in the D category uh it's only because something's got to go there and I really am not a fan of either of these these two late 90s albums it just was too too far too extreme for me from from all the elements that made them so [ __ ] cool they were so heavy so raw so energetic you know so Progressive and Technical at the same time and none of that was present on on this album and and to me it was a bummer so when's the last time you listen to that record Mike um years and years or I mean I Revisited all of these you know to to come back you know to prepare for this and it it doesn't change really honestly I I still it still doesn't click for me it's just too it's too bluesy it's too it's just too rock talica for me my knee-jerk reaction when we talked about the podcast was like oh that's for sure going in D I listened to it again and I was like man king nothing and until it sleeps there's some moments in there it's way it's not it's not our Metallica right from the 80s but I I didn't think it was so bad but well I'm I'm on an island here because I I listened to it again having liked the album and was like this thing's even better than I remembered I like it I I think the songs are great good for you you know I think it's a yeah it's a new Sonic millions of those damn records so what do we know I remember I'll share this quick story I remember my brother taking us to Hastings which was like our local album store in his little crappy Jeep Grand Cherokee that he later wrecked and he's told me since then he's okay with me sharing this he was highly inated and we went and bought the cassette he popped that thing in and ate my [ __ ] came on and I thought I was gonna die on the way home and I didn't but the music is stuck with me so anyway let's spin the wheel spin the wheel all all right K Kyle Graves let's go let's go k see where it goes see where it goes that's that's magnetic yes that's magnetic yes so I I got a couple notes on Death Magnetic and there's a reason because I totally forgot how good this record was I mean when it came back out it was like my Metallica is back you know what I mean um but at this point load was like the um you know a distant memory 2008 I I thought 20 years later we're finally back in metal land again the riffs were there the lars's drumming was there the double leads were there all that stuff and um you know it was kind of like they had to go out and explore it's like you know when you're a kid and you live in a small town you feel like you need to go out and explore the world and then you come back home and you realize that's this is the sound that Metallica needed to have in 2008 so you know you got suicide and Redemption a 10-minute instrumental which they hadn't I think they hadn't done an instrumental yeah in a long time at that point you got headfield complex riffs coming back again um All Nightmare Long was was my favorite record in the decade easy yeah um end of the line broken feet and scarred yeah I mean just there's there's not a bad song on this record um so I I put this in B uh I felt like you know and again you're looking at there's two TI B yeah yeah yeah I mean it's fast it's heavy it's I would say even higher but yeah it's b or a for me yeah all right I I really wouldn't have a problem with putting in an A but there's a reason I didn't have room up top is because I I had um I had uher had garage up there I Hadad a just to piss yall off so death magnetics right after that so man Death Magnetic James returns to do all the Rhythm guitars and a a match made in heaven when it comes to us audio files Rick Rubin took took the rein of this album so you're thinking oh man this is the guy that did Slayer now it's got Metallica and man this thing just exploded 2008 and they came up with with a brutal album um you know and then they go back to like you said the long instrumental so you're harping back to creeping death and uh not creeping death excuse me right the lightning and master puppets the Same album setup you've got longer songs and man it's just so heavy I it's for me it's a high a tier yeah me too me too I absolutely love this album uh to me this was the album I was waiting for after Injustice for all like when this came out I was like all right this is my favorite metallic album since and justice for all look spoiler alert I I I will guess that probably the first five albums are gonna end up on the top of this I mean it's just I'm guessing yeah but uh to me this is uh up there with those with those first five and uh it has everything that was lacking on load and reload and it and and we'll talk about St Anger as well but this was obviously the album that they had to make to really get back on track after after what they had been through and uh but I love love love this album every s but you actually talked about uh as an audio file the sound and Rick rubin's production I will say the mastering on this was a bit too hot because it was clipping out that's correct there was a version was that a thing that was going on during that period where a lot of lot of albums were doing that and they put out a a a um I guess all the stems they did a Metallica kind of Guitar Hero uh with all these songs so somebody put out a version of this album where it was mastered just quite not as hot and that's actually the version I listen to all the time it's it's uh pretty much the same mixes but not mastered as hot but man I love this album definitely an a a tier for me where is that a YouTube thing where you go to YouTube and find that uh that mix I guess so I don't remember where I got tent thing I think around that time but yeah it was guar hero Metallica they had like this entire album yeah Pirate Bay go there maybe you can find it Bay oh good glad we don't have to deal with those things anymore all right uh Mike your first spin let's see all right now when we did opth I got all my least favorite albums I hope Trend continues he's not he's never coming back I don't love this one either either for what it's worth but it's funny because literally when we did the opth wheel every spin I got was my lowest rated albums and the trend continues so here we go reload I mean I I kind of just already talked about my feelings about yeah we we don't Lo together I kind of see them as a pair um just this period you know I don't want to rehash everything I've already just said about it but I I'll I'll just cut to the chase here this is a d tier for me and I know that there's probably two albums here that a lot of people would probably put in D before this um I think get anticipating the 2D tiers that most Metallica vents would have it's different than me I I actually put this in D it was to me it was weaker than load and load I already didn't like as it was to begin with I agree with you yeah I just I don't find anything on here I don't know how anybody would think that it's better than load um it it the only thing going for it I will say is fuel I mean fuel is a song that still stands ATT test of time it's still in their set list pretty regularly today so they came out of the gates first song in the album was a [ __ ] winner but then the rest of it it was just more rock tallica for me Memory Remains was just so bad one of the things about yeah I I remember going to the CD store at the time when this album the day that it was released and it was over in I'm trying to remember the name of the store but they had listening stations and I listened to this and fuel was a great song I came home and I hadn't bought the CD and my brother was like man is it that bad and I told him I'm like well it tells you a lot about the album when for the first time in Metallica's discography it didn't start with a guitar it started with a vocal Give me fuel give me fire give me that's yeah yeah I guess who cares and when I heard that I'm like the focus is not what I'm used to Metallica being gosh give me a break so I feel I feel for Jason because I was always a huge Jason newon fan I was I was a flatsome and Jetsam fan while Jason was still in the band doomsday for the deceiver was like one of my favorite albums of 86 or whenever that came out I even had the metal shock demo uh where Jason was wearing a Metallica shirt so I was a huge Jason cheerleader he was he was like The Thrasher and you know he got he kind of got the raw ended a deal you know where he if you look at history you know his albums were in Justice for All where he was pretty much non-existent and then you have load reload uh SNM you know so he kind of got the raw end of the got to play the record yeah he was a beast live and he was a big part of their live show for all the years that he was in the band he was a huge component of the live but he didn't have to play on S anger so he's okay you know that was Bob rock well it's funny I went I listened to this record real quick I listen to this record for the first time in 20 years no joke I was it was so bad I was like all right I guess I got to force myself to listen to it I had complet completely forgotten fuel was on this record that's one of my favorite Metallica songs of all time I was like this is on reload I mean but there's nothing else redeeming about that record oh there's there there are a few other redeeming things for me this is border this is a borderline CD album so let me just be clear I don't think it's D but I think it's it's not great you had to have been there Kyle you had to have been there at the time yeah well I was there I was I was 13 I was going through puberty you know um to me the Memory Remains the merry Unfaithful thing people either love it or hate it I think it's cool Unforgiven too like the B Bender guitar part in that I think is cool I think to do a sequel to Unforgiven and do it successfully is great I think better than you is cool I think bad seed is cool that's about it it it it is a weaker album certainly than fuel but I like fuel all right I'll I'll step away fuel fuel is one of their best singles okay give them that the best yep that's true well got we got those off the board I'm happy about that wait I'm up right yeah there you go yeah you're up we we'll talk about it when we get to it but I don't know about that being deep but kill them all well what an album what an album H so kill them all um so we're going uh 333 three and two correct yeah y so cut to the chase um I'm putting this in a um for for an opening you know for for debut album uh it is a classic just how they begin with Hit the Lights how iconic to begin just that wall of sound coming at you and then the second chord after the drum fill it's you know what a way to start um for me this was the album I actually heard this after I had heard um master puppets Justice for All and write the lightning um yeah a a friend of mine's older brother had the vinyl and uh made a cassette for me and that's when I listen to it you know the sound is again very raw the solo guitar is a little bit louder you know but man Kirk Hammet was doing Kirk Hammet stuff at he was what 18 at this point well he was he was doing Dave mustain stuff but anyway yeah well but but he was doing it you know his like solo style was there like I haven't said that that he was already sounding like how you know him to sound now yeah so it's you know it's really cool it one of the big what if questions is if mustain would have stayed there but of course then you you know you don't have the parallel universe of Mega Death that started off in Rebellion against Metallica and we ended up with another great of the big four um but you know just got to the chase uh great way to start uh I'm putting it in a for obvious reasons I think other albums belong in s but man what a great album I listen to this fairly regularly and um I I guess one of the ways that you can knock it down from the S is some of my favorite songs are what we discovered or what we talked about earlier um in this version that I have you know it has Blitz grig and my evil two songs that I love but it's not theirs so you know that kind of maybe knocks it down a little bit but still you know great alltime album did you did you hear this first was this the first I I remember when this came out uh a friend of mine was a disc jockey for College radio and I guess Mega Force sent him a copy of it and he hated it and he traded me uh a CO a copy I gave him my my ACDC Back in Black it traded for this not that I didn't like back and black I love that album but I guess I just I he gave me this and it blew my mind I had never heard anything this heavy and tight and raw when this came out the heaviest fastest thing there was was like Motorhead or uh except like fast as a shark you know that was like the heaviest stuff at the time but that kind of had that new age of British heavy metal feel you know all those bands and those albums whereas this was raw and tight I never heard chunky guitars like that you listen to Whiplash and The Four Horsemen and Metal Militia I had never heard anything like this and it blew my mind I loved it for me personally this is s tier and maybe even my favorite Metallica album wow okay it's it's just because it was so groundbreaking it really it rewrote everything that we knew about what metal could be in terms of speed in terms of tightness and um you know it's a classic it's an absolute classic a uh s tier for me but I could see you know there's three other Big E that need to get up there as well so I could see where it might be an a as well but also I mean to come up with an iconic logo like that an album cover right off the bat that's that's that's another part that's cool they always knew what to do with that some Punker friends back in school and you know so I was familiar with like gbh and D and some of those bands and they took that speed same thing like kind of what you're talking about with motohead they took the speed of punk but they made it metal there was Melody there even though James wasn't he didn't hadn't found his voice like he did in later years the way he sort of screamed the vocals or you know barked the vocals but there was still Melody there was nothing like this I had an older brother who got me into him and uh yeah it was like I remember listening to it my best friend and he said these guys are living like 30 seconds ahead of the rest of the world in the future like nobody's nobody's experiencing life in the way that they are cuz you you just hadn't heard metal like that before yeah this I mean as far as I know the first rash metal album right I think there was like people talk about Venom and stuff but ex well Exodus Exodus is bonded by by blood around the same time but yeah I mean this was the one this was the game changer yeah this is also s tier for me and I'll just say this quickly about it is that yeah Fidelity Wise It's not their best album whatever but you you can feel like you're in the studio with them on this album I think this album and Ride the Lightning more than any other two it feels like it's coming apart at the seems which is something about art when you can actually like at the same time appreciate the songs themselves but also feel like you're in the room with the band and for me kill them all does that more than any other album of theirs and there's aspects of that on garage Inc which is why I also love it so but anyway yeah spin the wheel all right Kyle is it come on Lulu faga yeah I would love to put Lulu in D just get it over with uh ah hardwired okay uh you know you know this is a good album this is this is a good album um let me see the the tier listing yeah okay H all right I think I'm going to do a little onetoone swap here I I think 72 seasons is just a little too high at B okay so you have to decide which of these two do you like more and for me hardwired is the better album it's a double it's a double disc I think there's more variety there's more exploration on it it uh 72 seasons for me is again a little bit paint by numbers I think they're both good they're both thrash albums by a band I love um song for song though hardwire definitely i' argue I argu it would be an a really it could be an a I just I guess if I'm guilty of anything Metallica yeah magnetic but just looking at it how it is now I I I think hard has a lot of great I just was revisiting I hadn't listened to it in a while because I I wasn't really into them when it came out at the time I sort of checked out but um man that's a solid record so so I'm just having to to fix some of the mistakes that you guys have made and it's going to it's going to take a little while so um trying to decide if I want to move load up I could do that but I don't think that's really fair because 72 seasons is glaringly out of place you can only move right now something in B I understand yes so I I'm gonna take hardwired put it at B I'm going to move 72 Seasons down um which is not to say I don't like either Al what it's not Mo that magnetic up is the other option no I think K Kyle I think you're making the right move I agree 100% with you well I I see this gonna disagree with Mike porno come on now this is I'm just wondering what else is going in a but we'll see well I also looking at 72 Seasons at the same level as load yesh I'm I'm struggling with that see I disagree with that I think but again I'm the only one here that likes load so right look I I I think albums feature good song I think I think either e we'll see how it shakes that but I could see Death Magnetic or hardwire want either one of those in a I think would be to to me the difference between Death Magnetic and and hardwired is that hardwired to me starts terrific and then the second half of the album tails off a little bit it's long and it finishes you know finishes strong uh you know I think Death Magnetic is is a complete album uh hardwired you know has some terrific songs I love the vibe love the sound so yeah all right well we're we're good yeah I me I definitely see hardwired and 72 Seasons as a a pair it's kind of like load and reload but not musically but I said that I said that earlier but I definitely see them as a pair they're both double albums and they're much better most of Metallica's recent stuff are double album lengths you know they they pushed the CD limit right to the max they saw what Neil Mo's band was doing so they decided to do it themselves yeah all right I I don't think we gave any Credence to actual songs but I'll just say like Atlas rise is awesome Halo on fire is awesome spit out the bone is awesome and there's also a bonus disc for what it's worth all right go ahead okay Ride the Lightning I mean this one's pretty straightforward and and easy I think everyone I think most of us would agree if all of us that this is an S tier yep um that you know I like this one better than Kil themal I think Kil themal not really my style exactly but I think what they were able to do on this album I mean I didn't know much about them I discovered them going backwards it was like justice first then master and then it's like oh my God this is crazy then you go back and you're like oh wait they were doing Fade to Black and stuff like that on even back then I had no idea I always thought they were I don't know I always thought they were just like this thrash craziness with screaming I didn't know they could have Melody and and epic moments and stuff like that it really blew me away discovering this album uh at the time and opened up my eyes to like them actually being a band I could like and be a fan of so uh yeah I think this album is amazing all around uh the production is still pretty solid um but some of just the riffs and things that they were coming up with on at this time for this record I think were just amazing and and it holds up like crazy right now still I think thanks awesome it's uh it was the the the perfect uh followup to Kil them all I this was was the first album I this the day this came out was the day I got my driver's license and the very first place I drove after getting my driver's license was to slip this records in Valley Stream Long Island to buy this the day it came out same day I got my driver cool is that you'll never forget that day that's so cool and I remember loving this album I saw them on this tour I saw them play at LaMore in Brooklyn uh with a package it was wasp Metallica and armored Saint and Metallica played in the middle position that night they flip flop with wasp uh while they on that tour but I saw them in the middle position and seeing them live seeing Cliff you know in a club like that was was incredible but yeah I will say uh I think the production hasn't aged that well because I think you know kill them all is super raw and master puppets is super like polished but heavy heavy heavy I listen to Ride the Lightning now it sounds like it's washed in Reverb a little bit too much to my taste I I I think it sounds a little dated in terms of the production and the mix but obviously the songs you know creeping death and For Whom the Bell TOS are still Staples you know they'll probably never play a show without those uh songs unless it's a you know a no repeat thing or whatever but yeah and uh you know closing with the call to culu with the cliffs base solos and everything oh just so incredible and F fire with fire at to this day I still can never find the one it's like wait is that snare on the up eats is it what is going on it's still like the craziest most heaviest most fastest thing ever I love this album definitely s tier for me yeah so they remastered this in 2016 for what it's worth and it it sounds better I don't think it's a mastering issue though I think it's a mixing thing I think it's just buried way too much in verb but that's it sounds like 1984 Reverb yeah I agree totally agree this was a big jump from Kill Them All I think like it sounded like in a short amount of time compositionally they really Advanced already as you know they're all still super young guys but you know to hear acoustic guitar on you know on the record that was the foundation of speed and thrash metal was formed just on the second record we're already hearing that in Fade to Black you could tell there was some depth to these guys and it wasn't it was just wasn't just like you know parties and chicks and booze and playing as fast as you can they had they were they were constructing songs you know this was this was a huge jump for me I definitely put it up there the only thing it for me it's borderline sa simply because Trapped Under Ice Escape are not their strongest songs and then for me kak culu is not the better instrumental versus like oryan but I mean that that's like quibbling I mean to me there's four like albums that are fighting for S tier and this for me lands right at the first spot of a um but my goodness faded black it to me is their best song overall I think and goodness Fight Fire with five side A of this album is as good as any side a they they've ever written so do you guys have anybody have a problem with Escape in our little group I know the band doesn't like they hat it I think it's I I think it's a great thrash yeah they've only ever played it once and it was played once uh begrudgingly I mean I think I don't think it's nearly as bad as they think it is I mean if it's if it's if it's in James H's register maybe that's why he doesn't like to be up there I don't know if that's something to do with the way that it was written for the album perhaps I think it was Trapped Under Ice It Was Written kind of like very quickly to to fill out the album I think it was my history could be wrong there but to me those two are the weakest of the album I love creeping death they started this most recent tour depending on what night you were on because it was no repeats it was only at one night I knew if it started with creeping death it was a set I wanted I love that song lyrically musically it's incredible so yeah I love this album the album cover is amazing but with fire that middle part where Lars is just playing the drums before the guitars kick back in that was almost like a you know Slayer you know Angel of Death you know double kick and then the Epic ending of Fate to Black when you have the solo and it's fading out and Ah that's great album speed speeds up yeah it's awesome what is that oh cool what is that that's the 12 in that's theep 12 in let's see what we got kg kg do it look at that oh I love that image of that little monster from hell we're hit good ones oh man I think I know where this one goes you know you know you're getting Lulu or St Anger um rank this for noi although we're all ranking this one in the same spot right I you know a real A real friend would pass us on to uh porno oh he can talk about it I come on what's there to say about this I mean right it's a solid it's a solid B we're g to put that over solid B though but like yeah with B+ um this album I mean is there is there ever are there that many perfect albums right we all we all have our favorite perfect albums where it's just there's not one song we have some some albums that are good and you don't skip a song but then there are some that are just freaking perfect and this is the high water mark not only for Metallica but for the genre you know um even for metal in general not doesn't have to be thrash master puppets was a perfect album the opening of battery was just so it was like you got punched in the face with a you know slammed in the face with a metal chair not to bring up the metal chair um but you you guys have probably heard like all there's so many versions of the song master puppets you know on piano and classical versions and stuff and it just shows you where they went from from 83 to 86 when they and they wrote Master PS in ' 85 we talk and compositionally they created if it was just that one song that they ever did you're like how could guys in their 20s come up with this music you know but of course the whole stinking record is amazing um I grew up in the 80s and so you know the Cold War was still happening we really we kind of grew up under the threat of like there's going to be nuclear bombs falling any day we're going to blow up Russia they're going to blow up us blow us up and I'm going to get drafted and then so you got a song like disposable Heroes even that was like man these guys are deep they're they're telling us that the government doesn't care about us and we're disposable and I'm going to die for no reason so there were political things going on in the songs um you've got Orion I mean and so what you were just saying Kyle amazing amazing instrumental um you could go on and on and on there's just the fact that this was written by a bunch of 20 year olds is staggering and it's it hasn't lost a lick in all these years and you still listen to it freshh I mean there certain albums you know we did the opth one Blackwater Park has to be at the top you know you you put you have to have dark side of the moon at the top you have you have to have s of pepper at the top well Master of Puppets is is that for Metallica I mean just a perfect Perfect album like Kyle said and I remember the day this came out as well I didn't have my car because I was in Berkeley I was in college and I remember the day it came out I had to take the the train or the tea they used to call it and I took the tea to um to uh a record store oh Marlene's just walking in sorry what's up Marlene what's up middle of an interview I can see that but anyway I took the tea in and and I remember bringing the the the record back to my dorm room and uh I had my record player there and I remember dropping the needle and hearing me uh hearing a battery and uh I played uh I remember playing this album for John Pat truchi and Johan mayang and they weren't really Metallica fans yet at that point and um this was the album that blew us away I also remember the night that Cliff Burton died I remember uh we were all in my house on Long Island and we listen to Orion I had John and John and Kevin Moore uh we were all at the house listening to Orion I remember crying and everything and this album and obviously Dream Theater covered this entire album from start to finish in 2002 so uh you know obviously this album has a special special place in my heart but what can you say that we haven't said I mean this is s tier this is the top of the list the top of the mountain one of the greatest albums ever made yeah there you go when you're a teenager like this was like the album to learn guitar to you know I mean it was just like I think that's that's the thing too is that really great art it it it goes above timeline it's not just held in 1986 like stranger things featured this of course and that like hell scene where he's playing the guitar or whatever like my kids it's an emote on fortnite and so they if you get four people using the same emote one plays drums one plays bass one plays guitar like so my son Charlie who's 12 like knows master puppets like so there's something to say about that that's just really cool and Timeless and now I remember when this album came out I was two I just filled my diaper you went potty so you're I heard battery and I didn't I couldn't control myself yeah so anyway and after if we can't we can't skip over damage Incorporated I mean you've got an hour of brutality and then they end with that sing song do you wonder those like we we did a podcast the other night where where we on a I don't want to give away the band but we talked about how Like That album was was from the late 90s and it it had 80 minutes and it suffered because it was too long you know it had had a lot of songs and it it if they cut out half the songs it was would have been a better record you know I wonder if this album also benefits from that you know like cassette era side a side B and then they didn't need to fill it with another eight songs that maybe bring the album down something about that era where albums were like better because they were shorter you know it almost felt like it was modeled after Ride the Lightning too you had you open up with a brutal song Speed song then you have the title track in the number two position you had the instrumental was the second to well actually okay it was a little different on Ride the Lightning but yeah the instrument sanitarium fate to Black really instrumental penultimate you've got the slow song in the back of side a yeah you're exactly right yeah yeah and can we all agree that the greatest song Metallica has ever written let's all say it from this album let's all say it on count of three one two three what what' you say sanitarium sanar I knew I knew I could count on you guys I would I would have said Orion yeah sanitarian I said leper Messiah just to be silly but yeah you were saying what's their best song literally Metallica's best song in the entire catalog to me San I would say yeah I think a lot of people would say the title track master well actually a I might say blackend is another favorite to be honest yeah when I was 14 Welcome Home Sanitarium was it and the and the little single I I went to Japan as a study abroad and for two weeks and I got a weird Japanese single of Welcome Home Sanitarium and the bside was bread fan which was awesome so um I have that I have the bread fan cassette single in my garage and I could not find it I was cassette single bread fan all right well I'm curious to see what Mike gets because it's really it's feast or famine on this Mike is getting Lulu I'm hopeful for you man let's hope let's hope for a wild card at least there is a wild card here too yeah come on come on I mean why why all right sadism and masochism here we go okay well also I'm wondering why we didn't have SNM 2 on here I because they they kind of I tried to say yeah but because this this this one had this this one had two previously unreleased songs right and it also was when I was looking at I was checking out the charts for the like this one was this one did really well it's like a big deal it so it it was way up there more than some later albums even wasn't this this is what sparked Napster wasn't it the the TR wasn't one of the tracks that uh leaked on Napster yeah No Leaf Clover I think was the Lynch pin for that my gosh yeah what what a ter what a terrible song to launch an issue over but anyway hey they were right people could say what they want but Metallica was right right yeah I agree well I'm not the biggest fan of this to be honest so continuing the trend of me rolling the spinning the wheel and getting all my least faite albums please come back again he's never com you know and I have no problem obviously with bands playing with orchestras and uh you know it seems like all the great bands have done it at this point I was not the biggest fan of Michael cayman's orchestrations they sounded very dissonant they didn't play to the songs as much as I personally would have wanted to uh they he was almost creating like very Counterpoint dissonant kind of string arrangements and I was a Michael Cayman fan because I love what he did you know he did the wall he did Operation mine crime and uh you know I was a big fan of of him working with rock bands but uh I I think this missed the mark a little bit in fact um I think there was a version when this came out I don't remember if it was a a CD or dvd but you could actually play the the songs without the orchestra there was a way to play an alternate mix and I found myself listening to that most of the time because we didn't you know it was really the first proper Metallica live album they had put out the live binge and box sets they had done box sets but they never had like a real live album and then they came out with this but I I didn't want the orchestration so I found myself listening most of the time to the songs without the orchestra um but I get why they did it you know you know bands like deep purple and and you know it's kind of like a a time honored tradition for rock and metal bands to play with an orchestra I did it with Dream Theater and did it with sons of Apollo uh I just think it missed the a little bit and it was also in that time period with load and reload uh you know where I was kind of just checking out at that point as well so maybe it didn't hit me as hard because of my head space in the late 90s early 2000s um fny you gotta rank it yeah yeah you know you can make a you can do a fix here if you want by putting it somewhere well it's not going B what fix are you talking about well B honestly I'm happy with B uh so really for SNM oh so I yes no no no I'm not saying I'm putting in B I'm saying I'm looking at B now you're happy with how B is I'm not gonna bounce it yeah I'm happy the way B looks right now so for me it's a c uh you know I don't think it's it's not their worst so it doesn't belong in D but I think it's definitely uh not better than anything that's currently sitting in B so I have but one of the bottom so one of the bottom four could be an A so right three of the bottom four so there's going to be some switching around for sure something's going to lift lift from b and a yeah for sure I think they reconnected with their older music at this moment and I feel like it's a culmination of the best of that era with for me the best of the load reload era I think the new songs to be frank kind of suck No Leaf Clover minus human they're not great songs they feel like very tacked on of course is a 16 17-year-old I love them but they do really great versions of some of their best songs on this album I agree I don't love what the symphony added to it I think it works better in places than in others um but as Mike said it's a cool like you know postcard from that era no I was just I think for kak culu the the orchestration worked but it's funny Mike that you said that I had not listened to this one in a long time either and I listened back because I I generally like orchestration and stuff but I thought the same thing I was like man it doesn't seem to fit and the guy's a genius he's really playing it own music in the background like AB noticed something interesting and and kg brought this up Call of culu I think that is the opening song that they did and in in my opinion in the whole CD that was my favorite one with the orchestration I read somewhere that that was actually a last minute add-on and apparently he didn't have the time to to do an extravagant orchestration so it was far more compliment M as opposed to Counterpoint so it's interesting interesting that and kg yeah it was it just it was keep it simple and it and it worked terrific yeah uh you know Mike you had said something about this was a time when when metal was just downhill during this time uh the Century Media label had just started and I was all into things like Iced Earth and never more and uh soil work and there was a a death metal scene that was going went on so turning to my heroes of metal and hearing that they were not doing metal was was a deep disappointment so you know it there was good medal but but not in the not in the Main Street uh all right let's get back because we are we are taking our we pushing it yeah yeah who's up Vic I guess I am up no don't give him the Wild Card dang it all right let's see let's see well um it's either thrash or it's nothing with Vic you know well you got to think of the context uh for me this is out of out of everything that I'm looking at here I think it's it's pretty simple um and from what Porto had said earlier um I think you'll agree with me when I do this and and I you gotta put Death Magnetic on a yeah yeah I I I think good solid move we agree on something yeah and I and and this may be the hot take on this I would even put it a notch above uh kill them all when when I when I listen to both of those probably in the minority on that one I think personally personally that's how much I feel about this album but okay I use my Wild Card let's keep it rolling good that's that's a nice fix I agree that's why we have it okay I I think the other thing you could say about Death Magnetic for what it's worth if it had been released let's say 92 or something we'd be we'd be putting it a tier s tier without even thinking about it you miss who's who's whose spin was that it's me thank goodness all right I wanted this one I actually wanted say anger Believe It or Not Mike probably likes this one more than I do I think this is a steaming pile of just hey don't don't spin it again I I hate sa anger and nothing will convince me otherwise that is a d firmly yes it's not good not surprised at you let me say it let me say it like this they overthought this album if you think that load and reload are too reflective of the moment at which they were released sa anger is so dangerously reflective in a result of the moment in which it was con conceptualized so I mean this is the new metal Limp Biscuit led to this album and if you've watched some kind of monster which I love it is like the real life uh spinal tap which I'm wearing this the original uh Black Album um but anyway uh saying anger is so bad the snare sound is the worst modern rock snare sound of all time there's nothing worse than that there are no guitar solos the way that you talked about James aected sounding vocals on load and reload he sounds terrible on this album San anger in particular has one of the worst choruses of any metallic album ever I hate this album It's a d tier album I I hope you don't move it out of D tier I I really hate this album the only album that could have it was so bad that it almost ruined the band that I loved I hate this album it's still a worse record easily but yeah I mean well and then they did Lulu but okay we'll get to that I'm gonna stand up for this album go ahead I I know and and I I I think it's pretty obvious the two that most of the world would put in the D tier and I think most of the world will put this and one remaining one was pretty obvious but I I actually would take this album over load or reload any day of the week and yes everything you said Kyle was right the snare sound the uh james' vocal melodies the production the Lac of guitar solos I get all that and you're AB absolutely correct those are valid things valid concerns detriments to the album but at least they were getting back to riffs and getting back to longer strongs little more complicated Parts it was after load and reload to me this was a step in the right direction this is the bridge that got us to Death Magnetic and I would take this album over load reload or SNM any day of the week I would actually put this in my B tier which is crazy it's crazy yeah but I a version of this album talk about alternate versions I mentioned that withn snare when this yeah when this came out they put out a two SE two dis version the second disc was them performing the entire album in the studio with Robert tril on bass it had a better sare sound better production it they sounded like a a a metal band playing these songs it made me appreciate the album a little bit more that's my go-to version of Saint anger actually you and Vic both too bad we're not ring weird like bside releases from you know bit torrent so at the it's funny at the time that St Anger came out I had my first DVD or or CD recorder where you put in a a you know it was an actual separate component and you can record sport stuff onto recordable CDs and I ripped the audio and made myself an audio version of the it's supposed to be concert rehearsals and it is the the I think the songs are terrific I think they're brutal I think it led to Death Magnetic really well there are no solos you know and James vocal it's out of pit but it is a raw performance which is them in the garage doing what they do and I think their songs absolutely kickass uh I the the chorus they don't bother me um that's the version that I listen to in fact I've listened to that version so much that when I hear the original version it's really odd to me and you know we're judging these recorded works but go ahead I don't love this album but I agree with with you Mike when I went back and Revisited it for this after not hearing it for a while because I remember the snare being terrible and all that stuff I was struck by okay they created this sound design for this it's they were going for something which which is also whatever but beneath that the songs actually aren't bad and I agre and there's an to it and it's and it's fast and they sounded like a metal band again they have to load and reload where whereas load and reload I just can't get through it well and we we talked about them having kind of the punk rock roots with with you know discharge and the Misfits and gbh and all that fast stuff this was like their punk rock record the Mel obviously the things that are wrong with it are really wrong with it but I went back there were seven or eight songs on here I went okay if I could get past the snare and all stuff these are good songs they're rock songs is certainly not my favorite record but it's funny uh if you guys saw this the 72 Seasons tour um James during one of the song breaks there's a talking point he comes out he said he was like uh oh here comes a song from your favorite album and then kicked in window or something from St Anger so he knows yeah they get they know they've heard it all yeah but they're still but they're still playing at least one song from you know from the well it's definitely not as bad as shake up on what's what's coming down on this I I love that you guys so badly want to put this out of d by you know talking about your different versions you have it's I I'm judging the album version that came out in 2003 that is just atrocious I I don't know how I love your review though frantic frantic frantic Tick Tick Tock it's awful is awful I don't know how I got it you know whatever all right go ahead spin spin the wheel I want Lulu at this point it is better than re it is worse than reload sorry okay oh I and justice for all who gets that is that Roy that's Roy a lucky you I got all I got good on they're most Progressive album right this is a Absolut progressive rock podcast right um yeah I mean to me it's weird there is the whole no bass guitar blah blah blah but listening to it again now and it's it's one the few albums by them I still enjoy and listen to um I I don't know maybe I'm used to it but it doesn't bother me I guess um but the songs are just so awesome and so intense and just so mindblowing um and you go back to when one was their first video and that was like a lot of people discovering them at the time that was how I discovered them was through MTV through that that period um and uh just still groundbreaking at that point the the that whole album I think is is amazing blackend and you know one and whatever else the justice for all I mean it's just awesome stuff great riffs I like the production I don't know I kind of like it I think I like it well is once again is I have a version of this it's that's pretty bad when you have to actually go to listen to All alternate versions of albums to actually enjoy them it's a recurring theme are you're going to S huh Roy yeah yeah oh well with what's left yeah I think so it's gota be it's got to be s i agree with that yep me too where do you have it Mike uh personally I have it in in a because I have kill them all in my S um so personally it's a it's at the top of my a but yeah it is by far their most Progressive album and when it came out at the time it was it was other than the base issue the lack of Base issue um I think it was a great great follow-up to master puppets once again following a similar form to ride the the lightning and and uh master puppets you know you open open up with the the the Crazy Fast Track then you have the title track you have the instrumental in the back end of the other side so it was it was following the same formula as the previous two masterpieces but uh I remember seeing this tour they were um Queens Reich was opening they were on the mine crime tour and uh Metallica and justice for all it was just a great great time seeing them go to that next level and uh an amazing album but for me personally it would have been an a because I have kill them all in my ass but you can't really complain with that state with that placement mik was your decision to go with Tama Drums influenced by you know he had that classic white Tama Drum Kit on the no I was I was already uh I was already a Tama guy before Metallica came around I mean just just to on a drum nerdy drum note uh my my Tama guys were Neil Pier uh Bill bruford Simon Phillips Stuart copelan so I you know I was a Tama drummer before metall even hit the scene but yeah you know but then once uh you know the thrash movement came around you had LS playing T Charlie bante was playing Tama uh Dave Lombardo was playing Tama so all the the top you know thrash drummers were T guys too which just you know the best best place for us drummers funny the two albums left one thing about J The Duality of Man the year that I graduated high school and what was cool for me my high school years were 84 to 88 so you had Ride the Lightning you had master puppets you had justice and the cool thing about them is that they did not care about the Trends they didn't make music videos and they held off and held off and held off until they made one a seven minute song which nobody was doing they make a video and it's the biggest thing they've ever done at that point so it was kind of like you know our band if you were a teenager during those years that they stuck it to the man they didn't go corporate and they did everything their way and they still Rose through the rank and then they released The Black Album yeah I think this this is the album where I locked in my love for Metallica's Distortion sound and the Precision of James H Fields playing um I think the highlight of of his playing Freight Ends of Sanity towards the end he has just that tight you know it's it's amazing this this is why I play rhythm guitar and why I think James ffield uh revolutionized the the rhythm guitar playing not just the downpicking but just the intricacy of keeping everything just so tight and so clean recording it at least four times insane I got to tell you a quick a quick story and I know we're going so over Roy I'm sorry a quick story just talking about James Hetfield's rhythm guitar uh I I watched Metallica once lit I behind them I played a show I played Rock and Rio with them and I watched their set from behind the scrim like that was behind lars's drum kit so literally James hadfield's cabinets were literally right I could touch them they were literally to my right so I watched the the show with J just hearing what was raw coming out of Hetfield's cabinets and it was so [ __ ] tight it was ridiculous it was amazing it was an amazing experience to watch them that way that close to his amps that it's very cool that's great all right let's move on uh kg yeah James hfield is definitely s tier I think we'd all agree with that uh it's also lars's to me most creative and best drumming is on this album go I had a 50-50 shot I'm glad I didn't get it thank I really am uh you know I would use the same review for spinal taps shark sandwiches I they can't print that it's it's it's a dog of a record I mean it's it's kind of like you know a music legend calls him up and says hey guys I have a great idea let's collaborate and then already music legends in Metallica went well he wants to play with us okay well we should do it and then they do it and it's a dog turd but they go well well Lou says it's good so let's put it out you know like I just can't imagine any other reason that that I've not known one person we all have different feelings on like sa anger and load and stuff like that okay back and forth he's One Metallica fan this is a great Al well the crazy I was reviewing some album rankings for this just to see what what's online what people say on stuff and of course Pitchfork has this as the number six best metallic album of all time calling it brilliant so there's that man I I I put this on the other day my 12-year-old was listening and the first line out of Lou's mouth is about cutting tits off or something it's just like give me a break it's just it's it's so bad it's so bad we were talking but I don't I don't like the Velvet Underground I've never been able to get I mean wildside's there's people all due respect to Lou Reed there's people that love him think he's a genius I never got it I think his music's terrible I I I don't get it every song so you know I it sounds like a joke this album sounds like a joke yep right it's shark sandwich it um it it's kind of like we were saying with with Master of Puppets you know you kind of wish that were longer but maybe that's the reason it was so good was because it was concise this album is 90 minutes long it's the longest album has ever done I don't think I've made it through 90 seconds of this album I I got two songs in I was like I can't even listen to this for research purposes there's a song that sounds like they're playing disposable Heroes it's like Fast thrash in the background and then you have this guy he sounds like the crazy uncle at your garage you know talking over you know what you're saying he sounds like Grandpa Simpson he sounds like yeah Abraham Simpson yeah he's reading off his grocery list um yeah can we put this in E tier is there a for this it was a good good comic relief for the the ranking list what happens what do you here the thing you got to move okay those up yeah um just remember reload features uh fuel you love that song yeah no s anger so so we can do a a uhin effect yeah so so want something to see and then something to be whatever all right I'm going to move um so where you putting l 72 Seasons I'm gonna move 72 Seasons up okay so so Lulu goes on D yes of course 72 Seasons up of course and then St Anger goes up a bu step I like that there you go Mikey kg that I mean that that's what I personally I surely I would think most of the world would have Lulu and S anger inde d I mean that's probably the general consensus but I I agree with that I'm with you no no I like this I like this a lot and uh spin the wheel one more time for the master ceremonial ceremonial spin I don't like it but at this point I don't care so as long as Lulu is at the bottom I don't care What's it gonna be what' you get none more black smell the gloves yeah love this here how how how did they get away with putting out the smell the glove cover how did they get I guess Metallica can get away with anything they can do it they can do anything yeah well um look I'm actually the the spot waiting for it is an A and that's exactly where I would have put it actually when you look at the first five albums uh it's it's my fifth favorite out of the first five I mean to me the first four uh are are my top four uh but this would be five only because of historical purpose I mean it look it is a it's a classic album when you guys did the wheel of Prague for yes you had to have 90125 up there you had to give it its respect even though it was different from what the purists expected at the time uh but you have to give it all the credit in the world for its commercial success and uh it was a GameChanger in a different way in in a way that kilimall was a game changer and then master puppets was a game changer this was a game changer as well at the time I didn't like it uh when it came out I remember being really super disappointed uh it was just way too polished way too Commercial Way Too simple um but you know after Injustice for all where do you go you know they had pretty much done every time signature and extended riff and you know and justice for all took it as far as far as it could go and they got it and like I like uh I can't remember if it was you Kyle or you Roy somebody said that I think Kyle said it when they finally got a taste of commercial success when they finally did an MTV video you know and they were touring uh you know with Azie and things like that finally this was the album that blew the doors wide open and made them become the biggest band the biggest metal band in the world and uh at the time I wasn't crazy about it you know I I everything was a little too simple for my taste uh but like I also said earlier it wasn't until load and reload came out did I realize how much I really love the Black Album and uh and now history you know has been very very kind to it I think you know you take away the stigma I had at the time of thinking that they had lost their Edge but they really just made a great great commercial metal album and uh you know this is the type of album that could go up there with a back and black you know acdc's back and black may not be their your favorite album of theirs but it's surely the biggest album and it's it's biggest for a reason I think they really they they nailed it in terms of cross over and uh became the biggest metal band in the world with this one and have been there ever since this was the album that made them our generation's Rolling Stones that they they'll be able to tour you know I saw them five months ago play two nights in La 160,000 people paid tickets for two nights to see them play they wouldn't have done that if like we were talking about going from uh justice to Death Magnetic we would have liked that right but they would have never gotten to the point where they are generation rolling ston that this album gave them staying power I don't ever need to hear some of the songs that we heard a million times again I like you know of wolf and man and some of the the other that's still a good song I W man I do like yeah yeah but even when you hear Ander sand man on the sporting event or in a football stadium or something you're like all right that's cool it's Timeless yeah it's Timeless funny go listen to Sint anger and then immediately put on The Black Album I mean the difference in sound is so insane yeah the drum sound specifically on sabat true Wherever I May Roam even like Through The Never uh I love of Wolf of men like that drum sound like I don't care like it's it's incredible it's still the production they went from one of the worst produced and mixed metal albums to then one of the best and this became the album that and every mixer or producer used as their blueprint you know to to to compare again just amazing I will say for what for what it's worth is someone who like I love film and Cinema I know you know Mike does too but The Unforgiven music video I remember as a kid just being blown away by that like maybe that sounds kind of silly but I loved it as a kid it was so think song was still is still really brilliant it's unbelievable because of the Distortion and the ver they did it backwards you know the distorted verses and the clean chorus where usually you might have done it the opposite even that was just cool you know I still dig that one this was the album too that that James kind of found his voice too and you know he was notoriously shy you know you always talk about would talk about in interviews that he was the shy kid in high school didn't have a lot of friends you know so he hid behind his guitar and then he started screaming metal at us but on this record he kind of figured out how to sing and you know use his voice in in the way that we now you know all these years later he plays for 160,000 people as as as someone who has found his voice later in life I I can appreciate that you know James is uh he he went from an average metal screamer he had his own sound with the with the at the end of every line to being an actual really good singer now hold on a second you just moved St Anger I don't appreciate that we we gotta I don't in front for you but I was just seeing if that if that made sense to me I think TI by tier we should rank yeah so Masters obviously one I to me I'd put Justice override but that's just me yeah that's splitting hairs for me I I I might do that too but buy buy a hair I I would put I would put Justice over Ride the Lightning yeah let's do it I don't think think Mike would but well I mean personally I would have had kill them all in in my S and I had in s top of my a but I mean you can't really the the top you know the top four the first four I think are undeniably the the top four you know and then you have the Black Album as well but which some people might put in a top four yeah but I I don't know I I really can't complain with what I'm seeing about I like the order don't mess with think what do you think about B I think uh B is pretty good maybe you could put hardwired over garage Inc but I like garage Inc more so I would put hard wire over uh over garage nah nah I would have left come on I leave them alone I I think I think it's cool that they're they're in their chronological order it's good democracy democracy is okay I think we're good where it is nice job everybody nice job democracy I can't believe how long this one ran really we got hey we're a bunch of prag guys we could talk about Metallica than we do about opth oh I could I could have talked a lot more about opth but you know yeah so what do you think was fun to do this one because it really it reintroduced the band to me after I've sort of been checked out on them for a long time and uh yeah I did I I do still like some of the stuff I'm gonna I'm gonna start listening to them again more because I it's been fun actually I've been enjoying it start start with load You're Gonna Love there you go there you go unload yeah uh all right cool well we're uh as we're releasing this this beginning of 2024 lots of great things coming out this year I'm sure we don't know what'll what'll be down the pike and uh Mike I guess we'll just see what comes down uh with you in Dream Theater we're all really excited for that thanks for uh thanks for doing this man really uh and we hope we get to still have you come back on the podcast why do you keep getting how does that happen who's doing that somebody's doing that anything I think you make a motion or something and it are you serious they gave a thumbs up yeah yeah yeah something something's doing it I'm not doing you do thumbs up and look look at he put a little thumbs up there too it must be something with your computer because I'm not getting those things he's got the pro version of streamyard going you know yeah ex I thought one of you guys were doing it that's that's funny no that's funny that's hilarious what if I do this what happens it's not doing anything all right well H thanks for watching everybody don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel f gate podcast progp part.com and all our socials and all that and keep up to date with Mike on all his socials and uh upcoming dream the news whatever happens and we'll see you all again soon happy New Year everybody by bye goodbye everyone hey thanks for watching don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel follow us wherever get your podcast check us out on all the socials and on progra.com for all your news interviews reviews and more and we'll see you again real soon thanks

Channel: The Prog Report

Views: 63,795

Keywords: mike portnoy, progressive rock, prog rock, progressive rock albums, yes, dream theater, genesis, neal morse, steven wilson, prog from home, progressive rock podcast, tool, king crimson, pink floyd, john petrucci, rush, porcupine tree, marillion, queensryche, sea of tranquility, haken, opeth, the prog corner, notes reviews, album rankings, reaction videos, sleep token, metallica

Id: abNk63Ka32I

Length: 99min 51sec (5991 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 01 2024