What's Up With Superhero Movies?

hi hi we already film the video we filmed the video Welcome to the intro I'm Lanny I'm Kaiser I'm Stephan we're gonna talk about superhero movies for the next hour and a half or two hours a long time enjoy that the energy is going to be wild and we're going to say things that piss you off there's going to be a lot of tangential stuff so like feel free to put this on in the background and whatever ad we threw on there at the beginning going to say but first enjoy this ad yeah hi I'm Nick and I like long walks on the beach long passionate nights and delicious snacks delivered straight to my door right from the Land of the Rising Sun and thanks to our sponsors at sakuro and Tokyo treat I'm a very happy man this Valentine season with sakuro and Tokyo treat you can warm up this chilly chilly February with the hot heat of love as sakuro brings you Valentine Indulgence and Tokyo treat brings you you be my Valentine Tokyo treat offers you delicious exclusive Japanese snacks that you can only 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here are not going to be very interesting so feel free to put this onl is like a podcast also we're going to spoil like everything so you've been warned if it's a superhero thing it's going to get spoiled also I'm just going to emotionally prepare you for I'm going to say that the Batman is kind of dumb and Scott's going to agree with with me uh so if that upsets you you've been warned about that too okay that's it bye we're here to talk about superhero movies and what like what what what happened to quote magnic musles what happened superheroes what happened what happened well I mean St like everything comes in like fads right like superhero movies they what what what was like the first like breakout superhero movie was it like Superman back in the like late '70s almost certain okay like look if we're going to talk about like the history of C Cinema it's I me it's good to know where it came from yeah I have no idea whether or not I think because I think it like directs where we're going as like you know a media consuming public okay I'm fairly well uh on this so um yes in the 1970s Richard Donner Superman was a pretty big one you'll believe a man can fly was was the was the The Catch movies still holds up uh watched it relatively recently I think kind of sucks it's not great but it still holds up in terms of what it was doing yeah it was good for its time uh it's very boring oh as a as a person modern person um if I'm blunt uh which I often ask do you prefer that or do you prefer like Zack Snider's crashing through every building and hat that I hated it when it came out look look there's a difference between boring and outright like offensive offensive yes not not offensive in any way that matters no offensive in a nerd way yeah okay so yeah it start it started yeah that was like the big one I mean there was serialized stuff in like the 50s and stuff and then there wasn't really another big hit until the 1989 Tim Burton Batman I also don't like that much I like I I think I really there things I like about it yeah Tim Burton's Batman is one of those things that is wholeheartedly style mostly over substance I would say that it's sense of style it's music it's like the creation of Gotham it's so iconic and it inspired Danny deito as the penguin that turn and that was 1990 yeah I I know it's returns it's a it's a Christmas movie um but yeah like then there's returns and people were like I don't think we want to go this direction anymore and then Batman they were wrong they were wrong okay because the no the direction we went after it is objectively worse I like Batman Forever More I loved it as a kid now I don't think is a better movie I like watching it more it's hilarious it's so [ __ ] funny and then there was Batman and Robin uh which is actually more boring I like I watched it recently with Jesse and like I was like oh we were in for a fun time no actually it wasn't that fun it was just kind of boring there's like the the fun bad kind of watch which is kind of like where i' put Spider-man 3 and Batman Forever Batman Forever is really fun in like its own like it's got Jim car's energy in it and Tommy Lee Jones acting as not Tommy Lee Jones as he can and the right amount of homo rism would be [ __ ] hilarious the the part where [ __ ] Chris O'Donnell as Robin is doing Kung Fu launch and and we were're lovingly watching him ring out laundry with his feet show feet just so funny I Joel schacher was uh mocked for his time uh unfairly to be to be completely honest I I think Joel Schumacher is a fun director exactly precisely he's made a very bad fans of the Opera movie oh did he he was fans of the Opera oh no you will C but anyway the now the the now the superhero uh like Renaissance that we know now it's it started with like The Dark Knight and Batman AR you can say it started with blade oh man yeah I still love all of those movies for different reasons blade one is legitimately good Blade Two is cool blade three is hilarious it is very bad it is not good I look man Wesley Snipes made those movies so hard like I love the behind the scenes Talk of like how he handled blrs like where it's like I'm not showing up on set unless it's a closeup like all right yeah the fact that just didn't want to be in Blade three did not help but um but yeah uh arguably blade started like this this new era but like I guess that's almost more like a prequel to the era like where would you say then blade X-Men yeah and Spider-Man all kind of came out in relatively the same period Then followed by like Daredevil like we were getting this flood of the superhero Market before the you know like well before this Marvel fatigue we're dealing with something was ramping up and then Daredevil hit and then Incredible Hulk hit with the angle version and and like which I still say holds up as like kind of a fun movie Personally watch a long time I I say it holds it was the when I was a kid it was the most boring thing I'd ever seen i i i rewatched i i here's the thing like as a kid yeah [ __ ] boring as hell I rewatched it relatively uh God probably within like the past six seven years and remember actually enjoying it more than when I was a kid well it is still Ang Lee so there's a lot of cinematography yeah there's a lot of stuff that's going it's got a lot of weird stylistic [ __ ] that you don't get much these the one thing I remember about on uh angle's uh uh um Incredible Hulk is the ending of him going take it take it all that's all I remember is his abusive dad and like it's saying take my take my Hulk juice daddy sorry um but uh yeah that and Daredevil are are like probably hilarious in their own way do you not like to take my Hulk juice Daddy I don't like I will say uh I Daredevil was so very bad but it has the Electra Bring Me to Life sequence which is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life but and then Electra got her own spin-off then I I can't can't remember it for the life of me I've seen it it was it was out like around the same time that that Catwoman movie came out yeah and like like yeah Daredevil angle's Hulk Catwoman Electra like thoroughly killed that era maybe X-Men Last Stand really killed that era before it even got to get going yeah Last Stand was such a bad misstep that and in a successful franchise yeah and they keep doing it I they keep introducing decent X-Men and then ruining them by and every time it's the Phoenix story why do they you could do the Phoenix story but the Phoenix Saga I'll be honest not that interesting sorry it's not actually that interesting it's like kind of the only Direction you can go with Jean Gray is the problem just be cool no you yeah I was about to say there are other directions you can go you don't have to go the Phoenix route but since it's such an iconic part of the comics I mean though no but that's it though you don't need you don't need to follow the comics I know I'm going to get [ __ ] on for this as long as your character is in character and as long as you're writing good stories f the comics you don't have to follow them I mean they barely do anyway recently yeah like like U but like so we had all that stuff and then like Batman Begins as kind of like a transitionary period um and then we get the you actually get like a a real legit director in there I mean you got like not that anybody else is unlegit but this is somebody that's kind of a an allour you know Oscar winner yeah you got Chris Nolan in there and Batman Begins it's you know I like it it's fun but then the Dark Knight hits and hold like I don't know if anything has ever really topped it for me aside from maybe Logan yeah when when it comes to when it comes to the year that this era of superhero movie started it is 2008 2008 Dark Knight Iron Man and then yeah everything explodes Batman Begins was like that quiet little like because it was everyone agreed hey this is a good Batman movie but it was it went far more under the radar than it Sequel and yeah that big MCU boom cuz I remember at the time I was like yeah this is kind of all right watching through Batman Begins I'm like this is pretty good and then yeah then it just popped off and again and we saw like and and that's I think this is this will be thematic throughout the whole discussion um what we saw there was you know there were lessons to be taken by each Studio at that point right Marvel's like okay well like what we do is fun it's funny it's irreverent uh and that's what works for our Marvel superhero films that that's the that's what we make and DC like dark brooding dark bring instead of thinking if you make good movies people will watch them they thought what people want is dark and edgy like and like Chris noan Batman isn't even that dark and edgy it's just like semi-realistic yeah it's it's it's embedded in this like kind of realistic world where a man decided to dress up as a bat and learn kung fu yeah it's just through the lens of a crime like Thriller like that's it yeah like Dark Knight is just a very effective crime Thriller where Batman and Joker are like the two big characters and yeah DC learned a very wrong lesson and the MCU learned a lesson that wasn't wrong but I think one that they stuck to for too long question when did Watchman the movie come out it came out in 2009 or 2010 which was before Man of Steel I was working at a movie theater at the time so I remember specific yeah I think I think you might be right in that regard cuz uh I believe I believe the Dark Knight had The Watchmen trer trailer in front of it yeah you're right 2009 with the Smashing Pumpkin song that was the theme song for Batman and Robin originally and I really like I I I still stand by the fact that I don't think the Watchman movie is as bad as so many other people think like it's it's bad disagree it's bad but in an enjoyable way to me that's fine uh in ter in terms of being an adaptation of Watchmen it is extremely disappointing yeah no it's like I've said it is insane to me that you could create something that is so one for one like shot for shot to the panels of the comic while still wildly mising what the point Zack Snider proved he could do that with 300 so they just let him keep going it worked for 300 because Frank Miller is also an incredibly shallow person yeah it's it's like I've said Zack Snyder is Alan Moore by way of Frank Miller which is pretentious and offensive confusing I me you also had like in between 300 and uh we've already driven away so many people at the beginning of this video and I find that beautiful in a way wellcome uh we also have in between 300 and uh [ __ ] Watchmen uh uh Sin City Robert Rodriguez that did happen which is Rodriguez and it's another Miller work correct I think yes C he is that was so Frank Miller is a sort of interesting character and a lot of his older stuff his Noir stuff isn't awful it's just agreeably shallow with it's just not as racist as his other stuff aggressively horrifically racist I'm not familiar enough with his uh like with his you know uh what the hell would this be u u but his his earlier stuff is genuinely interesting it might not be good and like it might not be holistically good and it might sometimes be offensive but there's there's always something in the Frank Miller's older stuff that is so fascinating he was trying to tell a good story yeah um and he had editors and he wasn't as insane yeah and then uh all of that went out the window and then he made holy Terror Batman oh God so so the funny thing is like we're talking about the fact that like the comic book boom kind of started there but it also never really stopped they've been making comic book adaptations for a long time but this big superhero boom started with uh Iron Man as soon as Nick Fury showed up I remember people [ __ ] their pants in the theater sh yeah that that was like such that was such a cold shot that they did not know they could do yeah but they but like they went for it and uh know it was it was and I think and like I think Kevin feige gets a little too much credit sometimes but he doesn't deserve no credit like I I like he built that franchise I'm very anti-g great man theory in all aspects of life but also Kevin feige is a very important guiding hand For Better or For Worse um he he owns a lot of the success and the failure I think we can all like sit by and say like for phase one you know all the way up to the Avengers they only had kind of like one real stinker which was uh Dark World the second Thor movie oh yeah Thor 2 wait was that that come up that that would be phase two was that phase two two was kind of like the Iron Man 2 was like it it kind of like that was phase one yeah it was kind of like sitting there in the middle of yeah it was like a trans like like sort of like Tony Stark in a holding pattern where they kind of wanted to do the demon in the bottle comic story but they didn't really do it demon the bottle they made it all the way through to the Avengers and like you know they swish straight in I don't I like you know you can sit here and like critique it now but I back then it was the [ __ ] I still love the the original Avengers movie Weeden aside it's a it's a fun it's a great popcorn yeah I I genuinely still like it although it still has its own missteps everything to do with oh oh poor Hawkeye Hawkeye just got so screwed over immediately but I mean that that's kind like that happen so much in the comics where he like you know he gets manipulated and they needed an art look look all I'm saying is Hawkeye throughout his entire run in the MCU got completely screwed over to the point where even when he finally got his own show the show is about him giving it over to a better character damn but yeah no yeah like going up to the first Avengers yeah they were right High between Captain America Iron Man kind of the Hulk and we're going to just forget Iron Man 2 ever happened um the Hulk is kind of the black sheep of that whole thing because like that was the first one where they just stopped like because I guess Edward Norton and them just had a lot of disagreements or something and that was also a film that was um not NE not really a Marvel Studios film it wasal film because Universal still own the rights to H I liked it I did too it's not great I I did like it I think it like it's still my second favorite of like of the individual characters maybe second or third favorite I don't know Cap's up there too but of phase one and it's very funny that they eventually did bring back Tim Roth yeah oh oh yeah also I still stand I still like the first Thor movie I don't care what anyone says that first yeah the the the ending like villain villain sucks like the monster thing that blows Abomination uh no oh Thor Destroyer yeah whatever it is yeah that thing sucks but like everything to do with Chris Hemsworth um uh Tom Heston and her name Natalie P Natalie Portman all that stuff it's really good her and kiss Chris Hemsworth had like a chemistry where people thought they were [ __ ] on the down low yeah they had that level of chemistry at the time I remember yeah no that it worked on screen yeah it worked I like that first Thor movie it gets like weirdly a bad rap nowadays and I don't understand why just because it's like it has the same problem that a lot of Marvel movies have which is like they're fine they're fine the problem with the first Thor movie for a lot of people is just the fact that it's bereft of the kind of action that a lot of the Marvel movies before it had because he's not Thor God of Thunder throughout a majority of that movie it's true part of part of me is like that's kind of what we're missing now but is like movies that aren't trying to be Giant action movies all the time but that we can get into which is why the second Thor movie Just he is God of Thunder the entire time but God damn is that one just kind of a yeah what and what the first movie the first Thor movie did nail is the relationship between Loki and Thor which worked and people that's why Loki became the villain of the first part part you know and also like CU Loki was a major villain in the avenger first Avengers story but I believe I I I could be wrong about that um but um also like it it just it worked like it immediately made Tom hson a star uh Chris Emsworth was also pretty much immediately began a star like and he only became better over time yeah yeah like and there was Captain America first avenger as well yeah oh yeah yeah it said Captain America okay oh it's so Captain America is honestly Captain America and Iron Man you can tell why they became the Big 10 poles in right out the gate they had some of the best movies still in the entirety of the MCU well and I will I will argue that Captain America first avenger it's again it's fine but what all of those movies did really well and this is probably the most important thing is they established the characters perfectly mhm we knew who those characters were and so so when we got into the Avengers we had all the context we needed and if you didn't have it you got it pretty quickly CU Jos was pretty good at establishing and they surprisingly did a good job of keeping down the bloat that would eventually become part of their downfall yeah even through like uh Age of Ultron which I mean they still had a relatively condensed cast They added a few more people in there here and there a couple more of the side characters had a bit more to do uh a few more of the characters have been fleshed out uh and Age of Ultron when it came out at the time I remember feeling kind of mid on but have grown to a appreciate a little bit more Age of Ultron grew on me I was one of those people who actually just kind of liked it them when it came out it was way more controversial then and I think that was largely just because of their representation of the villain uh ulton but what happened with that one was the fact that they built on the lore that they did in Ultron yeah so like now it actually feels kind of like one of the tent pole movies because it does establish so many of the things that would go on to play a larger and larger role in Infinity war and end game that's actually a really good point like it is amazing that everything that came out after Ultron has made Ultron better yeah but I also note that Ultron is also the beginning of a consistent problem throughout the MC MCU um even after this technically stopping a problem so at the time there was something called the creative Council in in Mar in the Marvel Studios environment where a bunch of producers essentially said yes or no to things mhm constantly like it wasn't Kevin fige um it was this cabal of producers nobody liked I think I heard about this this is what like led to issues with Ant-Man and Edgar R right there was we didn't clash with them like basically uh they like the the creative Council wanted to cut all the stuff at at at Hawkeye's Farm um which was the wrong decision um creatively and and his make good was was that whole thing that nobody gives a [ __ ] about with Thor where he goes off and like has Visions about the Infinity Stones yeah and you're like why is Thor gone for for a chunk of the movie cuz he want have a vision because the crit Council said you have to build up to these other things in this movie instead of just focusing on this movie um and that pissed Weeden off who was already stressed out by other stuff um and probably also his infidelity and uh and and it it it just ruined the relationship they had with Weeden Weeden left that eventually the creative Council also eventually ruined the relationship that they were trying to build with Edgar Wright so he never got an Edgar Wright Ant-Man movie which would have been better you can you can still see some of his DNA in what came out yeah but you can see it being you can see it being executed by somebody who is not Edgar Wright yeah not not that that man is a Bad director I I no I I thought honestly the first Ant-Man movie fine yeah no the first enjoyed it fine is a great way to describe a lot of the MCU movies inros it is it has one of the funniest jokes of the those like out of all the uh first movies in the MCU it's got one of the funniest jokes with that stupid train like genuinely hit yeah it just benefits by having Paul rut who is genuinely a likable charismatic and funny person and cannot age to save his life yeah yeah he's he's got a [ __ ] uh what's his name Portrait of Dorian Gray thing going on oh he can't watch his own movies or he will immediately Shri even like the Ant-Man sequels I like uh the FBI guy was like coming in just like like uh you know he show he shows him a card trick he just walks up how'd you do it what do you mean like robbing the place no the card trick how'd you do it like that liking an but my every Ant-Man movie it was one of those things were like I like it when I walk out of the theater then it just like sours like milk for me over time I I still stand by that Quantum Mania wasn't as bad as so many people claim it is I wouldn't know I didn't watch it like a lot of people is fine it lot of movies that they make are fine literally the worst Bill Murray performance I ever seen in my life he had some dog [ __ ] performances well yeah but you just like I said that that scene ends it's not like he's in it forever I know it's just I've never actually why Bill Murray if he doesn't give a [ __ ] anymore like why why do you even want him Bill Murray that's not enough everybody loves B Murr sucks when he sucks anyway but yeah no like yeah like and we're kind of like just cascading but like you know I guess to to to wind the clock back um like we had Phase 2 and that that led to Ultron and like people mostly lik the movies in phase two even like thr the dark world it's kind of people like afterwards are like that movie was fine actually no everyone I know who saw Thor of the Dark World was like that was the most boring movie I've ever seen time but like over over time like eh it's you know well because because it's inoffensive and you don't ever have to watch it because it has no context to like almost anything that happen other than Thor's mom di inex spoilers Renee Russo no but yeah like all the way up until like endgame like they the worst they did was fine yeah and like and like that was all right for a lot of time because all the all the movies still like were very focused on character yeah and that always worked you always knew and and and they like you know leapt into the air with infinity war and they stuck the damn Landing with endgame and aot such a good job of establishing all those characters that it works even like the Guardians of the Galaxy when I heard they were making a Guardians of the Galaxy movie I had to say like you know who's that who uh and and it's like oh these guys I guess they have more of a relationship to Thanos so like my whole thought going into that was they're going to show up and just get wasted by the big bad okay uh but James gun created a [ __ ] Mega franchise out of these no-name characters not even not even the actual team that's in that was in the G at any point so interesting thing when you think about it it could have been another could it have ever been another director for Guardians of the Galaxy or do you think it would have only ever happened if James gun was attached to it because I am 1,00% sure that if had not been verion of Guardians that aren't James gun but it would never have been that version yeah it never would have been as good it never would have been like what we know of it today it would like let's be honest Guardians of the Galaxy revitalized Marvel when it was already feeling kind of middling at the time I it it was definitely a shot on the arm for me Guardians of the Galaxy all three of them are my favorite MCU films they stand out yeah with all of their problems and there are some problems oh my God it's the stories they have to tell their themes their all of the metaphor that is buried underneath every bit of every film is so good ah they they're all very good touching stories of found family yeah and and it's and like being a better person which James gun knows intimately of like like I don't like who I was necessarily before who has who hasn't battled their own demons like I mean if you haven't you should uh but if you haven't you should worry about that go for it if you have no if you have no demons to battle look for them uh cuz you do yeah but I promise also I forgot that Iron Man 3 was technically in Phase 2 yeah yeah that's true and I and I have always mained Iron Man 3 is one of the better one of the better Iron Man movies it's Shane black and he's good at his job so we've covered four Avengers movies but we're forgetting one Civil War are you talking about Civil War I am talking about that's not that's not an Avengers movie it's a Captain America movie yeah I know yeah [ __ ] you and and the hamburgers are sandwiches it's an ensemble film uh it is it is an ensemble film and that's one that I really liked at the time and another one that's like just sort of soured over time except for the scenes that have Spider-Man I still I still I still I still enjoy Civil War when the last time you watched it uh probably like I rewatched almost all of the Marvel stuff at like during 2020 so probably around then I mean technically the last time I saw it was during the pandemic but that wasn't that long ago okay for for me it's just like it it I think part of it is I get tired of the Russo Brothers visual Shick which is no flavor they are they are a little sauceless that is true not to not to like you know like just say things that other people already said but you know a lot of critiques are just things I agree with and one thing I agree with is lcer Brothers visually are not exciting I think they're great I think they're great at framing action they they are their action is often they can be I mean like winter soldier is probably my favorite Marvel movie and they chose a flavor for that movie yeah and it worked and theyve shot action incredibly well I do think uh when it comes to the Avengers movies they having trouble matching all their those individual tones so they went for something a little bit more generic as to not class too much and that is a problem I think part of their problem is that the Russo Brothers um if uh like before they did Marvel stuff the Russo Brothers uh worked on aresta development they worked on community most importantly I think because in community what they excelled at um they excelled at all kinds of episodes in the community but what they really excelled at was yeah like like homage like like taking a genre and recreating episodes things like that and that's what Winter Soldier also did well is it was a pasti of spy thriller films um and when they didn't have that to rely on visually they kind of just got a little muddy also interesting also it is at this point I think it's good to talk about the fact that the Avengers movies were causing another major problem with these individual movies and that where became all about building up to the Avengers yes since everything was becoming so intertwined we were seeing the early symptoms of the exact same [ __ ] that the comics got wrong yeah yeah no like it for those who don't know um event Comics have ruined the big two comic books yeah consistently uh they event Comics are some of the worst things that ever happen to Western comic books yeah because if they only happened once everyone once in a while it couple years it might not but it has to be every year well no like and not not not even once every couple years once may be a decade I think would be fine but when it but essentially what they do is they take all these characters and say you need to be taken out of the story that you're currently telling or you need to change the story you're currently telling in order to get close to yeah there have been times where because Wolverine was such a big part of the uh Marvel of of Marvel Comics he would be in five different Chapters at the same time in five different locations where there's no explanation sense how in the hell and no and yeah nobody can just tell their stories everyone's having their stories just [ __ ] with and hey you know what that happened to James gun with the Guardians of the Galaxy when infinity infinity War kills off gamor and James gun is like guess I'm working with that now which to his absolute credit man went out man went a man went out of his way to be like all right cool I'm I'm going to tell the story about two people who just have to make come to terms with the fact that they're just not going to work out and have to move on that's right we're taking the main love interest and we're saying their splits and it's heartbreaking but it's also thoughtful and and she's not the same person yeah unlike what they did with Thor phase four has a lot of problems wait did we just skip phase three though not really I mean we kind of just we like there like it's a lot of fine films that establish characters fine uh what are we going to say about do strange yeah yeah the biggest problem with like because I mean you want to get down to the Brass Hax of it which is the fact that after endgame they don't they really didn't have a direction that they wanted to go in like they they probably did but what ended up happening and with like the pandemic that got in the way I'm guessing a lot of things got shuffled around but 100% yeah yeah but there supped to come out when yeah but there were so many things that happened after endgame that just I mean you had shangi you had the eternals and how much of either of those have been referenced outside of the Disney Plus shows not much and like sh shangi has some like really good great action movie that is absolutely terrible I think the movie yeah the movie's very bloated like it has good things in it but it's too long I don't like the third act all of its good things are completely un undone for me I went back and rewatched that I at the first time I was trying to really give it a chance because I'm like yes shanii let's do something new an action like you know Kung Fu the stun team did an amazing job the bus fight [ __ ] fantastic yeah the writing is terrible the writing is so bad I remember it that's probably the point cuz I was so focused on the spectacle the time and so focused on like okay I'm going to try and ignore everything else but like I I I I was just I was listening to the characters and obviously understanding the plot I'm like all right yeah okay cool next action scene it's going back and actually paying attention to how that plot shakes out it makes no sense makes all the characters look like absolute morons it feels like during phase 4 they had this idea of something that they wanted to go for because they started introducing all of these mystical artifacts the you know the rings of power or whatever the [ __ ] they were called like The Seven Rings and uh then they had in the eternals uh [ __ ] Jon Snow with his magic blade that hasn't popped up ever since and nobody seems to really want to talk about the giant they're doing a lot of establishing and not a lot of paying off and and then you had um [ __ ] moonight which I thought was pretty good it's a fun adventure show I like moonight and like so you had this whole like Earthly mystical thing going on that doesn't seem to be going anywhere and then also because I think this is part of the big problem you have an entire Multiverse plot happening you have a Multiverse plot happening you have the celestial plot happening and you have the secret Invasion happening and and then that went nowhere I watched three episodes of that and was like I'm [ __ ] done like as soon as they killed off kobby smolders I was like [ __ ] this as soon as they showed that like spoilers as soon as they showed that [ __ ] uh uh roie was a scroll the entire time I'm like what the [ __ ] is happening that was always going to happen because no matter what secret invasion is a Bad plot line you can do it right though I think you can do it well um but I think it's a good small scale thing if they had committed to telling that one story for a while yeah but they didn't commit to anything no they didn't commit to a goddamn thing the biggest thing they've committed to is the Multiverse thing and K and oh boy yeah we don't have to get into too much about K I don't want to talk about that sorry the problem with secret Invasion for me is that your you're essentially trying to say that characters that you followed even if it was for a short amount of time or a long amount of time were not actually them and that is always always going to be unfulfilling and frustrating because that retroactively changes stories that you enjoyed and also kind of ruins character development that you thought you were getting for characters that you were invested in and if it were again if it were something told like in like a couple of movies with a set amount of characters that could have been really interesting but again with [ __ ] I I think it's a thing where you establish it early on so that you're always questioning it um what it feels like they've done is they built in like a bunch of back doors to reboot things if they really want to because like it feels like that's inevitably where it's going which uh We've also ignored an entire other company in this discussion so far we'll get into them I think yeah I think I think it makes sense to like cover all of Marvel and then do DC if I if I might though um so we actually you actually we actually brought something up and it's uh almost conflicts with something we said earlier I think think it's worth bringing up so one of the things that we said like you were like yeah we've had the eternals uh we've had shuni and they haven't come back up the only thing that feels like that's been of substance has been Loki well hold on hold on hold on you say of substance yes are the so as I as I mentioned earlier one of the big problems with these movies and the comics is how interwoven they come it feels like to a certain extent one of the things they're trying to do is let these movies kind of be their own thing and I say it does despite the fact that I'm iffy on the uh their execution it does kind of feel like they're trying to let these characters develop on their own without being too involved with each other y i but I I I see what you're saying sorry go you finish what you're said first um and what like even with black panther 2 which by the way is still my yeah no probably my favorite po like uh phase four like it's good yeah it's really good it's flawed because they had to shoehorn in a lot of characters yeah they had to make some changes but the story they tell is incredibly personal the performances are amazing and despite the fact that Ruby should not have been there um they tried their best to make her work within that story Ruby uh Ruby I haven't watched the movie but oh oh oh yeah she I haven't seen a single movie since yeah iron har oh Ry yeah Ry R Williams yeah they put did I say you said said Ruby Ruby no Riri rir they put Riri Williams in there and she's fine but you can tell like that was St just like with America Chavez and Dr Strange they're like we want our Young Avengers yes we're like pushing these characters in there and it's like we're not doing Young Avengers apparently but we want them look we need these people that we can sign in for long-term contracts to make these [ __ ] movies people are getting old we got to exploit the children like Tom Holland oh but yeah so but it's it's interesting because there's a part of me that's like I kind of would like these movies to stand a little bit more on their own so they can tell stories that aren't going to be uh like hijacked by the big the big tple event movies but on the other hand you're right it kind of feels like we're not building to anything anymore and yeah the original MCU was building this something and that was exciting and cool Mar created that expectation and the one thing that they are building towards is now mired in controversy yeah and also just creatively a bad choice I think the Multiverse was always a portrait I I don't mind them fighting the Council of Ricks like it's it's fine I don't mind one movie about that but no you're the the fact that this is called the M Multiverse the Multiverse Saga in Wind an ending yeah when you have when you have the guy show up in Quantum Mania and he says oh which one of you the one with the hammer implying that he has killed so many versions of the Avengers it's like okay but he loses a fist fight to Ant-Man yeah no there's what a choice to make your new main villain either lose or seem like a chump every time he's introduced they keep introducing him only to make him K is a one movie villain I'm sorry he's not [ __ ] interesting also I I think you can make him interesting I I think the idea of a multiversal like person that has just like a bunch of different variants that literally tries to control and dictate the flow of every un ierse they're a part of I think that's kind I think that can be an interesting villain but Kang is what they what they did is they neutered him immediately well and yeah I just I'm always against multivers stories they make it messy they make it feel like [ __ ] pointless and it always just it it ended up being something where Marvel used it as an excuse to do the worst thing they do which is rely on shout outs and referencing and all this [ __ ] like you know I'm I am the person I feel like I'm I'm more and more validated in this appealing in in this feeling I am the person who did not like no way home that much it was it was a fun movie but I don't like it it's fan service I I'll say this I like no way home only because for me it gave me some closure on some characters I really liked watching watching Andrew Garfield's U Spider-Man save MJ actually did did make me emotional watching watching Doc O and and Peter like talk and like finally realize he's okay again things can be okay again that affected me but in terms of a movie it's not great well and also isn't that a problem that the reason you like the movie is because of stuff has nothing to do with Tom Holland Spider-Man yeah and unfortunately Tom Holland so it's so strange to me and maybe one of the reasons I actually like the movie is that the uh if feels like it acknowledging that they've mishandled spider uh Spider-Man in the MCU up until this point because what does the end of the film have a a reset button yeah but I also think they they fix problems that don't need to be fixed uh now now I don't mind going back to Spider-Man being being poor and stuff like in fact I think that's good uh but like kind of key to his character we didn't need to do an Uncle Ben yeah the that wasn't a missing piece it just we just [ __ ] have seen it too many times Uncle Benning ant May was like the unfortunately to that extent it was the only way that version of that ending was going to happen where he was on his own actually alone yeah which honestly it's it's frustrating because I I agree with the ending I don't know if I agree with how they got there yeah I yeah there there there were better options but um yeah all this is to say like yeah the I I think the entire console of Multiverse Saga was flawed and it's and but like wholeheartedly yeah I mean do you think they can write the ship from here though is the thing no no I'm actually going to say no they can't they are they are doomed at this point and I'm Mark mark your calendars and I'm saying this very specifically because as we move forward um no one has been talking about chuni all that much every nobody at all has been talking about uh Eternal the eternals which is a okay fine going back to that fine movie it is it a movie that has some really cool ideas and sequences and is ultimately very boring it sounds somewhat interesting I've never watched it um and beyond that like even even its better movies aren't setting up great for their 10 PS later like black panther 2 is a good movie but I'm not actually very excited for this version of black panther to show up in anything else I don't necessarily want her to the losing chadrick Boseman is a tragedy yeah and also devastating for a franchise it's one of those things that you can't like one of the outside influences that couldn't be controlled it was like that it was Co it was like there things conspired against everybody right I mean we like when we got hit by the quarantine we got [ __ ] like everybody got [ __ ] uh but like yeah but there's also they there's also mistakes that they made right like they made the mistake of oversaturating their own Mar that was already being oversaturated by D G up the place but like it's a whole the TV shows have become a problem they didn't have to be but they are did any did any of you see Eko I I I didn't I don't give a [ __ ] I I mean I haven't seen it but it kind of looks cool I I I didn't see Eko I never I never watched She-Hulk and I feel like I haven't missed anything I watched She-Hulk and She-Hulk if you treat She-Hulk as a comedy it's fine shehulk is one of the ones I would have cared about about if I were in a place to care about Marvel stuff yeah and and and somebody who was still kind of caring about Marvel I watched it it's a funny show I like the head riter like I like I I've KN I've known about the head riter for a long time I'm sure fine I'm sure it's good like I I'm I'm confident it's good again the head riter's a good writer Some episodes are better than others of course um also unfortunately its ending as one that tries to have its cake and eat its to with its uh breaking the fourth wall unfortunately um but it is a she thing well yeah but ultimately the problem was it's like okay you broke the fourth wall can you still give us a satisfying ending no you're just okay all right just wipe that all out then but but I I I I um but like yeah there's a thing like w division came out and W division was so genuinely fun and interesting like it was it was high concept had a third act and that was very bad and then we had which also has done nothing cuz you had this whole other version of vision that never shows up hold on hold on I I have to talk about this I Doctor Strange 2 is was supposed to come out before W Vision which oh my God make more sense oh my God like because you had this W Vision comes out and it's like this amazing story with Wanda and even if its ending kind of is me it's just a me ending it's not a bad ending it doesn't completely undo anything it's just like Doctor Strange 2 makes her into a very effective scary villain oh I love but it [ __ ] over everything that happened in one division but the and the reason that it's truly devastating is because not only have you gotten rid of Wanda a character who we just finally got to see fully expanded into a character with all of her powers and all of her ideas and all of her personality you kill her off and you made her a villain via a cursed object which is the worst way to make a character a villain but also the a very original comic Scarlet Which Way in that in that it's extremely sexist and makes her a hysterical woman for just be glad they didn't do House of M all right that would have been impossible right now possible yes but it would have been a universal reset uh well no like it's oh it's so frustrating because that movie God there's so many good things in that movie everything that I love Sam ry's Direction in that all of the Evil Dead influences part everything good in that movie has nothing to do with the stuff that Marvel pushed into it oh is every with Sam Ray yeah America Chavez sucks she's not a character everything she was she's fine no she's not she's not fine she's not fine no I'm not I'm putting my foot down on this America Chavez as a character could totally work but she did not belong in that movie She's literally just a walking McGuffin with a backstory that is Blink miss it gone hey we've established her and now she's a part of this and she's going to beat the main villain for some reason you don't like her immediately fridged gay moms yeah oh God God right they come pre-bed I know right amazing you got to love how qu how streamlined M the Marvel Universe has gun at this [ __ ] then you have the entire thing with the Illuminati you bring in the Illuminati in the middle of nowhere for a [ __ ] Doctor Strange movie so you can just kill them all off okay first all that was actually kind of Banger that was absolutely Sam Ry going all right you want me to shoehorn this bullshitting in my movie I'm killing all I'm going to make some heads explode joh krinski is going to become string cheese that scene I'm sorry that shot with black VA Black Bolt is it was so horrifying in the best way it is so good I was like it's it makes no sense but yeah basically that stretch of the movie is the best part like that like second it's the one of the only movies where the second act is the strongest part of the movie yeah it's just all this horror stuff like whenever the Scarlet Witch is being absolute yeah when whenever Scarlet Witch is being a monster I'm like hell yeah I'm in for this but but that movie is been great as a buildup to One Division what okay I'm deadly curious how you think W division can happen after that cuz like the entire ending of that movie she gets uncursed by the book what no uncurse the woman but then how does she like like cuz she's still pissed I guess like and and also she get like like you know like like you have her be Twisted by grief first and have the book hold whole book plot and like whatever and then yeah W division happens where she tries to like settle down and like make a life for herself she's trying to chill out but she's traumatized and [ __ ] everything up but that it be a very different world but that's what I'm saying the reason I bring up specifically this movie it is it is a microcosm of everything that is currently wrong with the MCU I said this when we did a review of uh of of mom when it if this is the best you can get it is mom took me it took me a second yeah I'm here uh if this is the best you can get and of one of the best directors that has worked with the MCU right at there honestly right up there for me in terms of a theme theme and just general Talent James gun and yeah honestly and Sam Ry yeah just in the ability to elevate things with Direction the fact that that's that's the best you could get out of goddamn Sam Ry because it was compromised at every step of the way by stupid [ __ ] that just tells me I don't need to pay attention anymore they don't care about telling good stories is that when you stopped like caring that is I or was it after uh love and thunder door love and thunder if if if me like walking out the door was Mom me slamming the door shut was love and thunder I will yeah I will say like I'm on I'm on record like uh I I watched Thor 11 Thunder I was in the review I I liked it just fine I thought I thought it was fine it's and but but it had this effect on me afterwards where I have not seen a single Marvel thing since not one and I'm like and that's interesting because I or after Mania was that no no that was directly before Quant was before Quantum Mania I didn't see Quantum Mania and I haven't seen I haven't seen a single MCU thing since Thor love okay yeah and like and like it's very interesting as someone who was super into the MCU I was into it and it just [ __ ] just so here's my problem with Thor love and thunder there are good parts to it actually my favorite favorite parts to it the villain really cooli did a good job needed more time I needed to see him slce some Gods what the [ __ ] are you doing giving us a character literally made to slay Gods you never see him slay a single God except for that yeah second everything with Natalie Portman actually I really like her story taica handled the drama fairly well yeah I like it was the comedy that turned you off of it or the attempts at comedy the F I'm sorry Whoever thought whoever said the goats I hated those goats you hated the I remember that those goats made me so angry I was fine with the goats I liked I liked the goats I think thing is I liked both of the elements I liked the comedy I liked thing but but I see how people felt it was extremely atonal and weird it was it it's it is a movie that could not pick a direct Zeus I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I want my movies to have a certain amount of Gravitas for the big things going to the land of gods should have actually been a big thing for this universe I know that we like to make jokes and I know it's often like a lot of fun to make fun of things like you know oh the cosmic part of Marvel but the original MCU run gave gravitas to these bigger things it respected the idea of like hey yeah there's some crazy wild things out there and if you can't give gravatas to the world of gods and you just make it into a total farce why am I here I know I know that we're supposed to tune in for the character writing and it's supposed to be these interpersonal stories that are supposed to get us engaged but also like well yeah maybe some of the most boring parts of the original Thor when it was when it took itself too seriously that doesn't mean that Anthony Hopkins performance in that first movie as uh Odin isn't actually really good that that conflict doesn't matter that the fact that a an adopted child like they keep making fun of everything that happened in the first Thor and to the certain extent the second Thor but those things matter to those characters nothing matters I some of that stuff but yeah like he I think ta's problem as a director of these movies in both of the his movies um is that he is not confid in the drama yeah he's no he's no reverence for not even bad at it but he's not confident in him in either himself or the MC you or both um and look as someone who like I think we all get as people who are primarily comedians I think we understand relying on jokes when you don't feel like confident enough in doing more than that like when you feel like people are gonna laugh are gonna laugh at you if you do the drama so you should make them laugh instead I understand that creativ it doesn't mean it's not a bad decision though um I don't know seems like you both are just agreeing but well no I I I agree with that I I also think that comedy can be kind of a crutch at times and it's a dangerous crutch at that because I mean from his like you know from what he was saying it does start to you know take away from the gravitas of any situation if you're just going to flippantly make fun of something on a given moment and on the other side you risk it being really bad comedy which love and thunder does have plenty of yeah like that said I also enjoy seeing Russell Crow be a silly uh Greek guy see but like that's well it's sort of the interesting thing with Zeus is that that's not honestly if you were going for like a contemporary jokey version of Zeus that's actually he's a [ __ ] boy that's that's the I mean that's kind of the thing about the uh uh polytheism where the gods were a bit more like Whimsical in there like while they're still going to be [ __ ] I'm going to Smite the [ __ ] out of this dude but but so like there there's a middle ground where you you you can tell those jokes and have him do something where you're like oh [ __ ] let me give you let me give you an example from Ragnarok actually that really frustrated me when I was watching it and I couldn't understand why so you have this entire scene where um that you have the recreation of Loki's death uh via what's that Brad pitz Matt Damon Matt Damon Matt Damon and who else um man I the other hensworth Liam Liam Hemsworth I can't remember doesn't matter Liam hensworth was there and and uh [ __ ] the guy from Jurassic Park who I know the name of Sam Neil yeah and it was really kind of funny it was funny in the first one but in love and thunder but but here's the thing so we see this happening we see this like Recreation of that event and as I was watching it I'm like that's kind of funny you know I can see that happening in a TA ytt vehicle but then I realized something this really bothered me why is Loki doing it like this Loki is supposed to be a trickster God he's all about Showmanship why is this place so small if if they had if he made it this big event in a [ __ ] Coliseum where everybody was watching it was this big theal event would make an opera I feel like we're getting way off track hold on hold on but that's sorry it's just it's why I'm so frustrated is that like nobody the TAA doesn't care about these characters he doesn't care about what their actual motivations are half the time he doesn't care about what their motivations were and would be he's just kind of creating these versions that like sort of bit into the style that he's trying to make which is all right and I do want these directors to have their own Freedom when it comes to these but like maybe we shouldn't have like four or three different directors over four different films who are just kind of like desperately trying to match mandates from the studio like maybe this is a really bad way to run any franchise well and and especially like I think a lot of film producers have been like a lot of these huge companies have have been losing sight of something which is that people want to watch movies that excite them they want to watch movies that they think are good and it is that they can engage with that it it is valuable to take your time to make good movies rather than pump out as many as possible um because films are not a Content Farm PE people want to have these movies forever in their and and have them enjoyed forever do you when you like our relationship with movies has kind of changed over time but like nowadays with movies are forever so you want to be able to revisit a movie if you really liked a movie you want to be able to continue liking it and like there's this thing and we've come to it a couple times where like MCU movies have been like they sour they they don't age like wine they age like milk that's not good yeah and that has a very negative some of them still stand up as we've talked about some them but you have all the milk stinking up the place that in your wine seller yeah and I mean again like you know while we're sitting in this situation with marble which is clearly oversaturated the market DC DC had kind of the opposite problem at first where they wanted to like copy like you know they they looked over at Marvel's page and was like oh [ __ ] they're doing really good was like I'm not doing that but Zack Snider is more than willing to yeah he's like oh yeah I have this great idea what if Batman was raped in prison actual quote what if what if Superman and Batman didn't give a [ __ ] about life yeah what if they didn't like saving people at all actually they just sort of did it cuz uh they know that they're Superman and Batman I guess it is it is so frustrating to me to have conversations because I unfortunately cannot stop talking on Twitter at all about anything that's always my mistake I should never just be on Twitter um and anytime I ever talk about snyers Superman I always get a lot of people who are wrong a little bit because it's so interesting when I have conversations with people who are big CER fans and SN fans specifically of Superman they seem to project this image that is just not present in those [ __ ] movies and there also people who didn't like Superman originally oh yeah oh my God the amount of people I like Superman since I was a [ __ ] kid so I want to see Superman there's a there's a version of Superman that we just haven't got is the problem like he he is supposed to be the boy scout the the uh and that's not necessarily boring well Brandon it wasn't Brandon mouth Brandon Ralph yeah I mean the movie is not look the movie is not was fine that was a little less than fine okay okay A little coarse uh but either way you had an entire like you had Warner Brothers just trying to desperately catch up to what Marvel was doing continuing toate okay need to differentiate ourselves from up so we're the dark edgy Universe which is insane to me because if you if you were if you were growing up during the time where the the comics especially the Animated Universe stuff was happening MCU was considered the edgier stuff well DC was considered the more tame and safe yeah and I mean you remember the same year that civil war came out so Marvel was well into phase three at this point that's when dawn of Justice Batman versus Superman came out 2016 yeah bad year not not a great year not a great year for a lot of reasons was that one that came 2016 uh so you had both of those come out and godamn uh Batman vs Superman just [ __ ] shat on by almost everyone except the hardest of DC stands so I've I've had people uh who did not like that movie say yeah the director's cut is better which I'm just going to assume they're right sure I don't give a [ __ ] yeah I'll I'll I'll say that for sure as well as well as I think that Snider's version of the Justice League is better doesn't make them doesn't make them doesn't make it four hours I want to spend I will say this I will say this as a guy who has spent a rather uh c a rather absurd amount of time uh talking about Snider and kind of [ __ ] on him I will say his cut of Justice League is genuinely better and actually in ways good also I think it's worth mentioning I think it's valuable apparently sny's a lovely man to and I think that's extremely valuable very important this day and age I will take a filmmaker I don't like who's good to work with over one I do like who [ __ ] sucks I I genuinely genuinely enjoy a lot of Snider's work uh there are things that I what that cannot be a surprise to you no no I'm just very curious what cuz as somebody da of the Dead 300 Dawn of the Dead Watchman that's right I'm here for this but you like it in a schlocky way yeah I think you know what I don't differentiate if I like something in a schlocky way I still like it it's just it's just that makes you distinct from SNY fans who are like no it's genius yeah no I'm not I'm not going to sit here like I do think it is actually Port different that's fine but you know I still enjoy a lot of his work that's fair sorry it's just when you say a lot that kind of sounds like it's more than just two and a half movies yeah all right yeah like there are a few that like what was the one with the girl in the mental Asylum wasn't huge on that s oh sucker Sucker Punch Yeah done that one iel I felt like [ __ ] I should say I I also Li down to the dead and 300 and guardians of gah oh yeah he did of G movie damn I that movie is weirdly gorgeous like what if there's one thing he's good at visuals and and I think he and again I I'll stand by the fact that I think his Justice League is better than some of the [ __ ] in the MCU some I see yeah yeah I I can't I think it's slightly above fine I I I will not AR watch it that's fine man I would I know people I there's multi people who been like it'd be interesting to hear your take on and I'm like I'm not willing to spend that four hours trust me nobody I I I am loathe to try and sit you down for that but I also think he like he ran into this situation which was very unfortunate he had he had like you know I believe it was like his daughter passed away and that was right in the middle of doing Justice League and that's awful that's terrible and and then and then the studio did do him a very bad by bringing in Jos Weeden to absolutely realiz they were on the wrong track and they were correct in that in that and they put it in on a way worse track yeah and then they did a bad job in trying to correct it so so sometimes uh when you have the trolley problem you have to realize that pulling the lever is just like instead of say just combining the tracks yeah no no it's like oh no no it's like when you're going to crash into something and so you swerve it and you hit a bus of children or like you derail the train and it just hits everybody yes yes yeah it just rolls it rolls while crushing both of them and it never [ __ ] recovered what was like the most profitable movie in that franchise was it the first Aquaman that hit like a billion I'm pretty sure it's a fun adventure movie it's fine and then apparently Aquaman 2 came out this came it sure dropped it it exists and I know this year that one that one is a massive product of uh again a atic person in the cast just having to be cut from the majority of the movie when they clearly were meant to be a larger part uh amber herd that didn't happen really 100% did not happen really I thought she was supposed to be a bigger part in the original script and it's just a bad script throughout it's just a bad script okay never mind then honestly I I'll get into that later sorry uh I I know a little bit about it but um but uh cuz after I learned that Al to had come out I'm like I have to learn things now have to learn why this came out in secret I I just I just assumed that there was a big problem of there being a character that was meant to be a larger part of it because I heard there was a [ __ ] ton of re-shoot no they didn't give a [ __ ] about that no they they they did the re-shoot because they are I don't know what they're exactly trying to do at this point I mean quite frankly James gun's coming oh yeah by the way let's let's roll back yeah yeah we should roll back so we we had the snyers stuff yeah it wasn't working it just wasn't like and they were spending so money and they were not getting the returns they were expecting and also the response was very bad and I think you can put together if the response is continuously pretty poor from both critics and most audiences you're going to get diminishing returns so like all right we're got to reboot we we were going to try and course correct with Jos Weeden that failed even worse very bad and then and then you had I don't know I don't know if this is and then or or just kind of around the same time you had Aquaman and Wonder Woman actually do well confusingly um because those movies were pretty all right yeah I they both told a very interesting individual story that didn't have to like lean on the gravitas of other events yeah so and so go ahead oh I was just going to say Aquaman is a messy but ultimately really fun movie to watch and Wonder Woman is two-thirds of a really good movie with third act that just shot the the superhero third act problem yeah but um but yeah and then like they they they're like okay so maybe we can just kind of Just sh things in the right direction and then um during quarantine we got 10 1984 never saw it did not work uh and like they they had so many production problems of getting movies out um Aquaman took so long because there was just a lot of it made a billion like Aquaman was by far their biggest hit I think yeah yeah the first Aquaman movie and then there was like quarantine and there was um the main actress name who I know his name Jason mola Jason mamola I forget so so many names uh Jason Mamoa um also like had his own input on the movie and that made it take a while but also James Juan is like the guy who made the movie work so he's like well I have my own thing and like all this world building I want to do I want to make a TV show about the the under people or whatever apparently Jason mimoa has become incredibly difficult to work with yeah I think he might have been humbled recently though but um but yeah like apparently he was like oh I want this to be a message movie did he get some of that rock energy in him where uh just it's kind of changing the power scale of the whatever the [ __ ] yeah and yeah that happened and like yeah well and that was a that was post James James gun coming in there and them realizing like okay we need a guiding hand we need someone to help who cares about comic books to come in and tell comic stories because the suicide squad did shockingly well Suicide Squad probably my favorite comic book movie of like the watch that movie like three or four times it's good as someone who has just talked about how I don't give a [ __ ] about super M anymore love Suicide Squad is good he is so good at making an ensemble movie I honestly The Suicide Squad being as good as it is is like and the Guardians of the Galaxy actually makes me really eager to see what he can do also uh just in a similar energy space I I really like birds of prey I watched that one twice I liked it both times that one that that one for me is the definition of a fine DC film yeah well and like it's like it's not quite like James gun level but like it's if that director got another shot I bet you'd be good it uh it what it does do well is that it has a very distinct flavor and it is it's a movie it helps that Margot Robbie is just very likable yeah and she's a great producer uh people don't talk about that a lot but like she's a a very good producer um like uh she knows how to pick her projects um but uh yeah like and like so we got some good ones and like yeah they like okay let's bring in someone who likes comic books let's bring in someone who's very competent with James gun and someone who got who Disney pissed off so we could poach him um and uh yeah they they got him at that point where it's like oh yeah we're firing him because he made jokes back in 2012 yeah and and and Trump supporters are very mad about it but um it was a bad call in Disney's part very quickly I okay can I can I float something what I still think to this day that behind the behind the scenes they went to James gun and said look we're just going to do this for a bit then we're going to bring you back after it's very I I but but they've also been very uh blunt about just like removing people from projects just for having certain political opinions in general but that's it though they brought him back and so fast yeah so fast yes just as soon as like everybody looked at like not even moved on but like is do you remember when they cut him everybody like there there were like a few vocal people like yeah no I get it but there was a lot of people out there that were just like what the [ __ ] are you doing included I'm like what the [ __ ] are you doing yeah no everyone everyone with a brain was like what the hell it's like no I don't think the jokes are funny they were bad jokes should have made them I've made a lot of terrible jokes yeah we're we're in we're in a position where like we're also like we've been online when we were too young to be online he has less of excuse made terrible jokes I will continue to make terrible jokes doesn't mean I'm not going to grow from them let's not act like the internet humor of the 2000s wasn't a thing that exact stuff yeah yeah and the fact that James and the fact that James gun was a traa guy yeah yeah oh he was the it makes sense the TR guy he'd be the first guy to latch on to that [ __ ] but but in that regard actually um so yeah they Disney basically caught him so they brought him over to [ __ ] DC to try and and then he just made the best DC movie D the best DC movie and I think that was a clearly thing of just like DC's like we can get James gun oh you can make any movie you want and he's like I want to make a different Su movie okay if you say so you're the boss and then they said you're the boss please and it's like okay now he gets to make his Superman movie he gets to bring Swamp Thing like I am genuinely excited to see what he does I wish I was excited I just want I'm a little beaten down I get that I get that but you know what this might be the thing that like you know gives the genre kick in the pants if if if if the the if the word is good I will absolutely watch a Superman moovie but like to go back to the Nar like the historical Narrative of it like yeah like all that happened James gun takes control and then the aftershocks of the SNY verse version continue to happen yeah released they released the SNY cut they released a SN cut which maybe not actually the best decision in terms of brand uh identity um like sure if you're glad to have the movie I'm happy we got it I happy we got to watch it yeah uh can I say one more thing about that actually oh oh boy did that like as much no as much as I am glad that we did get that cut because as again as I'm glad the artists got their cut let as much as I have [ __ ] on Snider I'm glad that movie came out the way it was supposed to I'm glad that movie exists as it is supposed to but wow did that look at the worst people online and say all right your bullying worked yeah and again for brand identity their money spends their money spends the same as anybody is but yeah like and also like this did well but Joker came out and that's confusing uh the Batman comes out and it's not part of anything and that's confusing Joker and the Batman have nothing to do with each other and both of those I think stand well above anything in the SN verse oh absolutely um and I don't even think the Batman's very good but I I enjoy the Batman in its weird little like muted seven sort of to be C I know that's an unpopular opinion I know I'm the weirdo who doesn't think that who thinks the is kind of there are plenty people they don't like it I think the Batman is a beautifully shot movie with yeah with some incredibly good themes and is a great story to tell for Batman good performances but the way that it's written is kind of wonky kind of stupid uh I'm sorry you really didn't think of a bat until [ __ ] Falone had sorry not Falone the penguin [ __ ] penguin had be rat with wings I forget if it was bat or Gordon but one of them goes could be penguin wings too have wings Falcons have wings like what has wings are you kidding me anyway sorry that's going makes people so many people a rat with wings what could it be I guess we were never not although it turned out to be a f we were never not going to make people mad but but we have so many opinions that make people mad but I still look I I still think the Batman is I'm glad it exists I hope the next one's better I just yeah I hope the I hope the Runnings just again dramatically visually audibly everything about it takes it takes you back it takes you back to what Batman's supposed to be which is a detective also like for a first story about Batman where his focus is on fear and anger and then he realizes no I actually need to be a Beacon of Hope whoa that's such a well that's your story for Batman that's so cool the shot of him walking through the water with the like it's a cool shot it's visually striking it just shouldn't have come after him being nearly directly responsible for flooding the city CU that still makes the argument that Batman shouldn't exist but yeah there's a lot of it's it's very muddy because Matt Reeves I think needed help with the script and because of the flooding but um yeah all that said like yeah like so while and like good movies that come out uh but like they're they're they're basically else worlds to speaking comic which which I which I think is to its benefit it can be but it's also confusing from a brand identi effective um and and yeah because it's like they're going to keep going with John Cena as uh peacemakers it's like but does he like so are we just adopting him into uh the new gun ofse which I I did also watch the entire Peacemaker show it was a good show it didn't have a bad third act why am I the only person who hasn't seen Peacemaker yet I don't know watch [ __ ] Peacemaker I know I should I should so like good movies that come out but like they're not really part of anything and like and then like yeah and then Black Adam comes out it's begin beginning of of the end shaking up the hierarchy of the DC yeah no this this will change the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe boy did it it's cuz the [ __ ] rock has a uh like a a clause in his contract that says he can't lose or look weak it's like he books he he's literally wrestle minded he's like I got to go over brother like meanwhile you have John Cena who will look like a fool and not give a f it's he's he's so likable yeah it's cuz he didn't come up in that like Carney level of wrestling where you really have to to build your brand around wins and losses cuz big match John always won anyway when it comes to wrestlers from what I can tell either a wrestler is the coolest guy on the planet or a real piece of [ __ ] you're either Dave Batista or you're Hulk Hogan yeah okay I was gonna I was thinking you're either Mick Foley or you're Hulk Hogan between to be fair Dwayne Johnson doesn't seem like a really shitty guy but he does seem like a guy who no it's about ego it's about ego with him it's like I mean he's the modern day Schwarzenegger that's what he is he shows up for these for better and For Worse yeah yeah he shows up for these big action Blockbusters he's he's a name that draws and he has a look and he literally based his career off of Schwarzenegger um like directly yeah he did those cheesy little comedy movies back in the early 2000s but mostly it's big action Blockbusters yeah uh but like yeah it's it's it's but it's yeah it's Black Adam comes out no one gives a [ __ ] um apparently fine it was fine but I I would no no no no no no we're not settling for fine for Black Adam that was a terrible movie I watch I was just saying I I was all right with it I didn't watch it and I'm not going to I don't blame you it's not worth watching but I I it it did not ruin my day well like like No I um I hear people liked Dr Fate it's like it's really weird because you can tell they're trying to like shoehorn in so much stuff we got to get something going but no it was it was already de and The Rock I'll be honest Dwayne The Rock Johnson ruined Black Adam from the get-go because he had this whole thing he wanted to do with Black Adam he gonna fight Superman he fights [ __ ] Captain Marvel shazam that's who he [ __ ] but but he but he refused to like make that him lowly like I he wouldn't even let [ __ ] Zachary Levi show up in the movie and it's such loser behavior I'm sorry it is like I said it's that Carney wrestl I me of course got get over of course then Zachary Levi showed his whole ass this past year yeah um but yeah also Shazam 2 did not do well um I was rooting for that one uh but you know didn't do well didn't see it heard it was fine yeah uh and and like okay so yeah that came out uh Blue Beetle looked fun and apparently it was it was app was fine see it heard it was fine Blue Beetle no Blue Beetle is good it's a it's a step above fine for me yeah largely looks fun largely because it I have a really soft spot for movies with strong themes uh and it it has a strong theme it it it it is trying to tell a story about uh you know a young hispanic man and the struggles of his family I what I liked about the trailer was that it looked like a lot of Mexican families I've known like living in Texas like you know like and and I liked that but the biggest problem it runs runs into is the fact that you already know that it's not going to be a part of a bigger thing at this point because you're just waiting for this Universal reset with James gun it was also in that this between space where James it could be it could be part of the new universe that doesn't necessarily have anything and it came out after the Flash oh did it come out after yeah oh yeah yeah the flash they were like oh my God the way they promoted The Flash where it's like this is the greatest movie I've ever seen this movie I heard that from no one oh no we heard that from the [ __ ] producers they were going in interviews saying it was the best movie they'd ever [ __ ] seen cry meanwhile Ezra Miller was running around the country playing GTA like role playing GTA in real life I don't like I lost track of the aser thing but like um The Narrative whatever was happening at that point there's genuinely some decent stuff in that movie uh some some of the themes they explore kind of neat uh the but but the the the clips of the ending I saw make my skin crawl yeah it's it's just certainly something and when I saw the trailer I was immediately put off um like as soon as they were like oh Michael kon's Batman is going to be in it and he's gonna he when that's that suit was never meant to be shown in daylight show way to much he just [ __ ] for no reason says let's get nuts there was context for that I don't love the Tim Burton 1989 Batman there was context for that line that's Stripped Away by just saying the line for no reason I assume that was said in the movie It's I can't remember I can't remember either cuz like the entire third Act is this weird like they take it back to the SNY verse with uh [ __ ] Michael Shannon showing up and just murdering whoever played Supergirl over and over and I thought she was really well cast she looked looked she was great well okay I thought she was very attractive in in the trailer and I was like I like her and and she's good in the movie yeah I saw that movie I technically I've seen that movie twice it was on the cruise that I was on and they were like rerunning movies so like I would I tuned in a couple of times and Flash yeah it is a it is a movie that's actually trying to say and do some things which like again I truly appreciate a movie that is attempting to do that but it is marred by so many problems by everything felt like it felt like for the longest time they was trying to build him up as his own his own reverse flash and they kind of do but not really because the reverse flash is the one that kills his mom anyway which which is like really the which is really what I was sitting there in the thinking like oh man is that what they're going to go with like he has to lose something in order to make the world right is he going to have to kill his own mom to set hisory straight that's going to be [ __ ] up let's go no but yeah like and yeah all that thed and like plus you have the arrowe on TV which is also confusing because people really liked that but it had nothing to do with the movies um and the Flash TV series that was part of that's part of thean like stuff but um uh but yeah like it's DC was confusing and also like people are like who gives a [ __ ] now and then like it got to the point where like after Flash and Blue Beetle just did not work uh they just sort of very quietly released Aquaman 2 and and apparently in like in like interviews Jason M moa's like was like I don't think we're making another one I doubt it yeah know I think it's over it's like it's like just like a just like a mournful funeral for this franchise that it remind it reminds me of when the Jos Sweden Justice League was coming out that uh that with [ __ ] uh uh sorry Ben Affleck just sitting there like yeah yeah just dead eyed and yeah like and yeah like and that's what it's just yeah it's so interesting because like yeah like that coincides with Marvel movies doing worse and worse not as bad but not good no continue to flood the market and this is and I'll say it's also worth noting that this is also after years of very public VFX Studio abuse from Marvel like to the point that they're unionizing right yeah God which like unionize everyone who could unionize please unionize it's good for you y so while all this is happening like both of the like we're just waiting on James gun's reboot of DC and just to see if there's more to it I don't I don't think comic book movies are going anywhere not because going to be a very slow it's going to be weird and it's going to be different because you still have things like spiderverse you still have things extremely well and and the direct to video Market which I still stand by the fact that the the new 52 DC animated stuff I think it's better than a lot of the DC Universe stuff you can you can make that face all you want I think it's wait wait wait wait the DC euu stuff like you're saying the new 52 animated stuff is better than the DC EU stuff whatever yeah whatever the live action yeah okay all right I won't argue I won I won't argue and I won't even say you're wrong I just I don't know I genuinely enjoy some of those like like everything with it's it's very hit hit or miss I yeah I think they hit right on some of the things uh [ __ ] apocalypse Wars [ __ ] weird man yeah I it it's just it's also just hard to like I I feel like you've also recently watched Marcus's video on the Batman movies oh I haven't got around to that okay well he he also he briefly talks about the killing joke animated one and like stuff like that I haven't seen that which is which is not part of the DC like new 52 thing no no that like they all their movies were were like self-contained for a long time actually uh in that regard there have been some of those animated uh films lately that have actually been varying in their quality they've been doing a lot more I I feel like when when HBO is isn't uh or or Discovery isn't destroying I I still genu I still genuinely enjoy Teen Titans go to the movies I be it's funny and it's also basically a summation of all the [ __ ] that we're talking about here it's like yeah no superhero movies have a [ __ ] problem no no but seriously I feel like every time I look away and I look back two more animated movies about Batman have come out it's [ __ ] weird go goth the by Gaslight is actually pretty cool I mean it's a great concept yeah I believe the the comic was also fairly well received as like a nice little concept comic yeah like um but yeah like it's like they DC has like its own like little like sub like small successes in like yeah just adapting Good comic runs into movies uh animated movies I mean we're not even talking about the HBO Watchman show which I still think is really good that was surprisingly good yeah and it was also a sequel to the comics not the movie yeah I need to see that I really do it's worth watching yeah g and I had a real long conversation about it when like the toddcast Pod show was still a running weekly thing yeah I really need to watch it it's it's it's absolutely worth watching um and I I it's one of those things where like I would understand if someone like for like completely like understandable reasons doesn't like it um I it's certainly interesting no matter what um and it actually is like it's art it's like it it has something it wants to say choosing to be something um and and but like yeah like DC is is definitely more interesting than Marvel right now it's not good overall but more interesting which is why I sometimes show up it's why I'm sitting here like okay I want to see James gun Superman I want to see it yeah I'll like like I'll give that a shot so why do you think about that if this merger goes through with WB it is very likely that we're just not going to get any of the gun stuff it's very possible uh which which merger is happening now I'm I it's isn't it Warner Brothers and Discovery didn't that already happen no no no no no no sorry sorry no it's another one uh Warner Brothers is it Comcast and discover I think Discovery trying to offload brother media mergers like look Paramount Paramount oh Weir oh God yeah yeah yeah there's the par there's as long as it gets rid of Paramount plus and lets me watch South Park on Max again I'm whatever ah it's never worth it I mean no but what the [ __ ] am I going to do about it right yeah well I mean what we could have is have our antitrust laws actually be enforced but how am I going to do that right yeah uh but yeah he wants to start a petition yeah um but like yeah it's it's it's that's also frustrating it's like uh just yeah like also both of these [ __ ] franchises are run by giant monopolies that that are either being gobbled up or gobbling things up and it's like that's not good either that's not helping uh like we've watched how to in a somewhat related tangent we've watched how Disney has like kind of [ __ ] with Star Wars where it's like oh man it killed Star Wars for me oh yeah no Star Wars I care Andor that is what I care about Andor is good but that is a like I look we've been sitting here for what like an hour and a half I don't want to jump into that discussion yeah no no it's it's this is a brief tangent but like they they it is it is a symptom of the problem yeah I I appreciate that filon is a very passionate man who loves Star Wars I think his approach is bad o overall uh and and like I think he has a better creative head than they have had they haven't really had one before exactly I guess it's better than absence but uh but yeah it's like it's a but yeah it's a thing where like the Star Wars I like you you and me have talked about you and me are some of the biggest like Star Wars fans you will meet on the street and Rise of Skywalker killed me it killed me yeah no yeah rise of Skywalker killed most my and then I I stuck around for Mandalorian anyway and it was the season 3 was fine and season one almost like great [ __ ] great space Western wolfen wolfen Cub just yeah but like but it it like season 3 wasn't as bad with like the stuff that they did in season two of like the trying to do all this [ __ ] we're a whole whole big story no tell one story tell one good story narrow it down just tell a good just do what do one thing do one thing well and then you can do more things like it can be set in the universe doesn't need to build into the greater event and that's why like right now I care about Andor and that's all I care about because it's doing one thing and that's and that's you care about Andor and you know where he stops but you don't but you don't know if you care about Andor or if you cared about Andor because it might not have another season you don't know oh no it's it's it's it's nearly done oh is it oh it is yeah yeah they're they've been working on it for a while oh my God please I need it you think they don't want money I mean look didn't do that well it didn't do that well but it's still content to get eyes also it was it's vitalizing interest as well yeah not to mention it got the biggest critical Acclaim that any Star Wars thing has gotten in years but like all of this is like just a similar thing of just like it's this I think part of the oversaturation problem as well because Star Wars it's incredibly oversaturated and and like in MCU stuff they're oversaturating just the MCU uh like DCU like like oddly it doesn't have its own oversaturation problem necessarily it's just just very confusing yeah um and but like all this is just this this business this huge corporation thing of like endless growth this thing that's IM not real they made it up and money yeah like and like and like eventually it always leads to a [ __ ] bubble popping and a crash and I think the bubbles popped we're we're in the middle of a crash we're in the middle of deflation yeah yeah like and it because of how big this stuff has gotten like not just cuz like this isn't the only Blockbusters that have Indiana Jones did not make the money it show oh no oh God no and that movie was fine never saw it was all right probably won't for a while it was better than Temple of Doom but that's not a high praise for me I like Temple it has a terrible second act for me but it's awful but it's another one of those schlocky things oh yeah it's racist I mean it's an Indiana Jones movie oddly enough most Indiana Jones stuff doesn't have a big racism problem I feel like a lot of those like early adventure movies kind of have some of it though some but like it could have been worse uh and in Temple of Doom it is but that anyway that said like Indiana Jones didn't like a lot of Blockbusters just sort of I mean Fast and Furious it was on top of the world and like Fast X I don't think did that well like it did all right I could be wrong about that one though I haven't I haven't looked that up I I'm sure it probably made like a billion dollars but just kind of like it's probably just like I I feel like the fast furious franchise is also about to like hit like a stopping point of like oh we we can't keep it's because all of their actors are now like 60 I was about to say weren't they always planning on kind of ending it after 10 like yeah but 10's going to be like three parts a three parter 10 became a two-parter and then it became a three-parter it's like so you're making 10 11 and 12 no we're telling the same story it's about family when I finally do my full watch through of all the Fast and Furious movies and then do starts with them stealing v and ends saving the world a billion times I'm very curious generally enjoy a lot of those they're fun and stupid I'm planning on doing a full watch through and I want to do a full series because I feel like like I'm one of the people least geared towards these movies geared the I'm just saying they're not my speed so I'm looking forward to watching these movies all the way through and then doing a Series where I talk about them because I feel like I am I always love perspective of getting I love videos where I get a perspective on movies that aren't geared towards the person talking about them that is always really interesting to me so I kind of want to do that for the Fast and the Furious be a fun little like fa comment interesting I mean like look the superhero boom is I don't think it'll ever fully go away I think there will always be superhero movies like just to kind of like wrap some of this around there will always be superhero movies whether or not they're like Standalone or part of a bigger universe but it's not going to dominate the world I don't think it will as much no cuz I think what Hollywood's waiting for is like the next big genre boom cuz superheroes was it for a while like you look back to the 50s it was the pop Sci-Fi movies you look to the 80s it was the uh the action they had a big action boom usually like for for film people like the the the the comparison is westerns yeah westerns were big for like 20 here and then they died and then you had the Sci-Fi boom and then you had big action boom and then you had had the big real until Star Wars though like it was it was relegated to be stuff and like not really being that big until Star Wars made it made genre well Star Wars is what is Star Wars is what made the Blockbuster basically that as well yeah like jaws and Star Wars like had a little like like like backtack thing and so but like I think I think we are hitting a point where Blockbusters are hitting their have hit their Zenith yeah you can't do more than you've done terms of making money and you can't really control what's going to be a blockbuster anymore you can like amp it up you can try as you might but you never know which one is actually going to hit you don't know when you're going to have a barbon hyber and when you're going to have a Exorcist believer well and that's the thing this year the barbon Heimer right those movies were not relatively not at anywhere near as expensive as some of the other ones they expected to be the biggest movies of the year and they blew the world up not being action at all all neither of them have action um like one's a one's a one's a like existential comedy and one's bi yeah a dark biopic about how the world is bad like and and and they and people want to watch that now because they [ __ ] want something different and like and also everywhere all at once had a huge impact it was different like and and they spent [ __ ] $30 million on movie which is nothing and that is a small budget in in Hollywood and like the lesson the like these Studios keep ignoring is that don't spend all your money on one movie spend some of your money on a bunch of different movies and if they do bad it doesn't matter and if they do well they make a huge profit why are you not doing that is it because you want to make all the money you can't that doesn't happen in the real world yep and it doesn't even Happ sometimes sometimes they just want a big tax right right off so there's that aspect that you kind of run into as well sorry bat girl uh yeah if if you're looking for like a stable business model it's not investing in the biggest movie on the planet um but they don't care you literally look back to Mel Brooks as the producers it's literally that sometimes we're just like let's put as much money into this as we can so we don't have to pay as much at the end of the year but there's also this this this false dichotomy right of like if we put $500 million into Batman v Superman it won't make a billion dollars cuz that's how it works you you multiply it by two it'll make the money cuz it's superhero Batman and Superman yeah and it'll make double the box office I mean it's still wasn't it still a success no no not a success but it was profitable it made a profit but it was nothing like they wanted um and then Justice League was even less uh and and and they spent even more money but I will say that it probably sold a lot of HBO GO subscriptions when the SN I can I can sort of believe that actually but that's the other thing with this pivot to streaming model as well streaming does not make [ __ ] money it it doesn't it straight up does not make money everyone is operating at a [ __ ] loss with streaming because they're trying to be the last man standing and then they maybe make money even then once you control all of the market then you set the price they want to be the last one or two and you're already praying paying more of a premium for go or Max or whatever the [ __ ] than you are for most of the other ones right and it's yeah it's like those things were like I don't know what Paramount plus is doing you can't you can't win that fight Paramount plus even if you if you get own WB you can't win that peacock only exists because people like watching the office and it's I cannot believe I can't believe peacock exists I will say but I will say poker face is so [ __ ] good bch Poker Face is well this thing peacock has poker face poker face is one of the best shows I I've watched in a long time uhle TV has apparently Ted to tend the series is it is it's it's funny why is it funny [ __ ] also also also speaking of uh Poker Face I can't wait I cannot wait I genuinely am so excited for Joker 2 Joker 2 is good I don't care the fact that it's a musical is so funny Harley Quinn I'm just excited that Willam defo is attached I love him why are you I hope wo is playing another Joker yeah that's that's the rumor that's what want I want there to be so many Jokers singing oh my God he's like you gota you got to tell a joke to get through life I'm I'm genuinely interested in that but like that's that's the thing that's genuinely getting me interested now it's not these big tent pole DC mov It's the weird [ __ ] and maybe that's just because bored bored but I'm also in my 30s and cynical so and I'm much less of a cynic than I was in my 20s now but I'm still burnt out on so much of this wait you're Le oh wow I'm a lot less cynical like there's there's [ __ ] that I enjoy now that I would have hated in my 20s cuz you're not trying to be cool like that like wait wait wait wait I'm not trying to be cool and I've become more cynical what does that mean no that's that's it's a different kind of like not cynical you're kogy that's what you're becoming there there's a there's a I think Nick referred to kind of say we're like well that's that's stupid I'm not going to like that okay that's a different kind of oh I'm not cynical I'm just pessimistic you're jaded it's different there we go um uh but yeah no it's it's uh yeah it's it's been one of the things where like this is a large industrywide problem that if they don't [ __ ] figure this out and that they need to stop spending all the money in the world and things they're going to destroy their entire industry and then it's going to have to get rebuilt from the ground up um people have been predicting a crash for so long and the longer it doesn't happen the worst a crash is going to be that's how it works Rome wasn't built in a day but it can fall in a day yeah yeah and and one of the things that a lot of these so it's unfortunate because on one hand a lot of these companies are allergic to degrowth um they overs up their boundaries and then unfortunately when they do finally take a step back and try and restructure guess who suffers for it yeah all the people that were hired on with the expectations of having jobs but because these people could not plan out or or even fathom the idea that infinite growth could be a thing suddenly a bunch of people are out on the [ __ ] Street and you're also looking at a situation where it's like really [ __ ] difficult to plan in the long term because like you've seen what some of the long-term planning has gotten them recently uh when your actors are all of a sudden very problematic or maybe a giant pandemic kind of throws you off your game horrifically like long-term planning has almost kind of had to be in the back seat for a lot of this stuff well and I'll be blunt this is not a lesson unique to Studios it's just more catastrophic when they fail like we've had to learn this lesson like we've had to scale down what we pl like want to do to like small more manageable things cuz like I mean you you all out there know I tried to make multiple 20 minute long animated series things that was not a good idea yeah but I was like I want to do everything and then that was actually actually like creatively wanting to do things but still it's a question of passion at that point and then the passion hits reality but yeah like you still have to scale down and you have to like make things achievable um and Studios have money that we didn't have so they can just be like well now we're going to throw the money at it and I'll fix it and they don't they and we'll get more money and they refuse to pay attention when things aren't working and then adjust accordingly they'll just continue trying yeah well either way I'm looking forward to in 10 years when we have the same exact conversation about anime which I mean that seems to be the next big boom oh we're having our merger problems already but you know uh bye yeah I don't [ __ ] how you end this [ __ ] we we got real serious at the end uh because I don't know we have very serious thoughts about that like I like I I I really hope you just ended on the buy no no I I no I I actually think it's sort of important to say one of the biggest problems in the industry is actually the industry itself like we care about we genuinely care about entertainment I want to do this for I want to make entertainment for the rest of my life um I don't necessarily want to do it for huge Studios I don't like or trust them but like I want to make I want to entertain people for the rest of my life that's all I'm good at I want look I want groups of like 20s somethings and 30-some to be bitching about my performance in one of these things around the table someday okay you know a a a great mind in the community recently said that it doesn't matter what artists think it's all about what the consumer wants how do y'all feel about that you think that has any bearing on this you think maybe that that's actually a product of a flawed system that we shouldn't be celebrating but instead fighting back against you think maybe the consumer is a by and large either a [ __ ] idiot or somebody who just justes not understand about the general scope of how these things uh act or actively being manipulated and told what they want rather than being asked what do you want look up informed consent but uh are you talking about manufactured consent oh wait wait sorry uh well informed consent is more of a yeah no yeah man yeah sorry manufactured consent is the term look at manufactured consent it's very important be Illuminating informed consent is also extremely important completely different reasons yeah but we're just we're speaking so like I think people this like like at the end we got like real like serious and passionate I feel like it's worth addressing like yeah like we're just I love the entertainment industry I love entertaining I love acting we want to do it forever and frankly I'm scared of not being able to do it forever because I don't know what else I'm going to do yeah artists like I'm not saying that all every artist in all art needs to be celebrated and protected I do think that we should make a world where people can create art without having to worry about losing their livelihoods and I think we should have a society that promotes and even uh emphasizes good art instead of cons modification of the human expression [ __ ] AI by the way just a side note [ __ ] AI that is our official position as a company yeah [ __ ] Ai and have a great day see you bye [Music] [Music] let

Channel: FourStarBento

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Keywords: tfs, tfs abridged, team four star, teamfourstar, lanipator, kaiserneko, superheroes, superhero, mcu, iron man, spider-man, spider man, hulk, batman, dceu, superman, aquaman, james gunn, podcast, discussion, blockbuster, movies, film

Id: Wvy8r0MrsDA

Length: 103min 42sec (6222 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 04 2024