What stands in the way of women being equal to men? BBC News

[Music] [Music] there are a lot of things I can't do like I can't go out at night like to parties I can't like speak out in class I can't really stand up for myself because I don't people see that as a girl being disrespectful or just a wild crazy child I think that being a girl um can stop me from doing some things for example when you think about a plane you think about a guy as the pilot and a girl as the one who is catering the food and stuff like that and I think about when I become older I want to do like whatever I want to do and it doesn't contain whether I'm a girl or a boy when any girl do a mistake they always blame her because of her reputation not like a boy there a lot of things that a woman can't do and maybe some womens would love to do that I'd like to be treated the same as boys I like to wear what I want to without anything being expected of me and I'd like to go where I want do what I want wear what I want as well without anyone saying no you can't do that you're a [Music] girl want me to help you it's breakfast time at home in London on a dark winter morning I'm getting ready to take our 2-year-old Esther to nursery and her big sister Alice to school right should we go off to Nursery now being a dad at the school Gates Isn't So unusual anymore but I'm still definitely in the minority and I should add I don't do this anywhere near as often as my wife does gender still has a huge influence on how we all live our lives and having two daughters has brought that into sharp Focus for me like any parent whether you've got boys or girls you always worry about the opportunities that they're going to get and the freedoms that they may or may not be able to enjoy and the more I think about it the more I want to explore why it is that actually most countries in the world have laws that prevent boys and girls and men and women being treated differently but actually their experience is that that still happens no country in the world has been assessed and declared to be gender neutral gender equal so I want to try and understand what it is about the social and cultural exchanges that these two have as they're growing up that maybe mean they don't have the same chance as a boy would they just think like oh she's a feminist you know she just H it's just like so annoying that's often the comment I get just oh like shut up just they don't bother to listen even when someone just shut you down like just like don't say that it's just like you kind of just like lose the willing to want to talk talk about it you know if you look at the most recent gender equality index from the world economic Forum this place Iceland is right at the top that means it's better than anywhere else when it comes to making men and women and girls and boys equal paternity and maternity rights are the same and recently boardroom quotas for women were introduced so on the face of it if you're a 15-year-old girl Iceland's As Good As It Gets you're on your own yeah I'm always home alone when I come home a woman is like expected to be like always well-dressed and and sexy and hot even but a guy isn't really expected to be that but when you're a girl people like they care way too much they're just like why is he wearing that why is he saying that everything is questioned okay ready to go it's Friday night vas's parents are already out and she's spending the evening at a local youth club where she often goes vigas is allowed to go out until 11: p.m. sometimes even midnight and then she walks Home Alone down empty dimly lit streets I wonder if she and her friends realize how unusual that is we are aware of that it's it is unique that we can just go out and not another and my mom was actually just talking about it the other day that she wouldn't want to live anywhere else because then she would always be so worried about me not coming home you know when when I'm out with my friends until like 11 or 12 but this must give you an amazing amount of Freedom about what you can do because you're not reliant on your parents to come and get you the whole time yeah I was in New York the other day and I couldn't go out to Central Park be because it was more than I think eight and I thought it was really weird after 8:00 p.m. that I couldn't go out and walk across Central Park and then we know that if we travel we have to be more careful we know [Music] that our parents are always afraid for us from uh the people from the society from everything outside uh and I think they like the idea of staying at home is better for us it's frustrating when you are at home and you really get bored because you can't do anything at home not like boys I've come to Jordan and you don't have to spend very much time here to see that girls and boys and women and men are performing quite different roles and I suppose my definition of gender equality has always been that girls and boys and men and women should be able to do whatever they want and I'm very interested in an alternative perspective which is that actually men and women are equal but they're also different and I'm really interested to have that perspective explained to me Jordan is ranked close to the bottom of the gender equality index just over 10% of its parliamentarians are women and there's no legislation prohibiting gender discrimination the 15-year-old merera has equal access to education and her father Maran has high expectations of what she can achieve the women and girls are preparing the food and in a tradition that appears to cross cultures Maran takes charge of the barbecue do lots of men like cooking or you're a bit unusual uh well I like I like uh during vacation I like to cook to make give my wife more relaxation my kids and I enjoy to make barbecue actually now all children grow up with rules but being a Muslim girl in an Arab country merera has more than most but what would you do with more freedom I would smoke I would try to smoke because always boys when they get nervous or um get mad of um something they smoke so I would cigarettes yes you want to smoke cigarettes I would would you like to try smoking no in England it's quite normal for 15 or 16-year-old girls to maybe have a boyfriend do you think that that's too much freedom for a girl when she's 15 or 16 I think it's too much freedom for a girl who is uh her age is 15 because um she's not a grown up to think what uh she wants in her life and what she should do do you guys talk about boys yeah sometimes if you said to your father I think I want to have a relationship when I'm 18 or 19 what would your father say no I think he will disagree this idea he would will not like this idea I think he will kill [Laughter] me [Music] seem a lot of boys they will be like oh you a virgin and if a girl says yes they'll be like but you're 16 or you're 15 like is it not time there's a lot of pressure on girls definitely in this country it's not a nice culture at all my 16-year-old Lulu lives in southeast London the UK ranks number 18 on that same gender equality index on average women get paid a third less than men for the same work and they make up 23% to Parliament certainly Lulu and her friends have much more freedom than mea to socialize with boys but they're fed up with how some boys are talking to them can I have your number no well you're a hoe then and then as soon as you say no oh you're a skank anyway little ho okay let just walk away you can either be a scank or [ __ ] one of three not putting in the number it's just that it's we're so used to it now yeah it's just just repeat every day yeah so it's like a thing where it's not even a big thing anymore or like they're just bragging oh yeah I did things that I beat her I banged her I banged her bang bangang the place where I was you see that park over there I B that four four times behind the ramp over there give up no I won't break down there are things I feel that girls can't do that boys are allowed to do because they're boys like ill behavior for example or just Clowning Around in class I feel like it's more for the guys than it is for the [Music] girls and I prefer to keep quiet because it feels like it's more of the guys that are supposed to be loud and Rowdy and all that lutu ranks 16th on the gender equality index making it two places higher than the UK women here don't have inheritance or custody rights and abortion remains illegal but it's judged to be the most equal country in subsaharan Africa they don't allow us to go and her friendo appear unimpressed by that always tell us that boys do have their way and you know if if like a boy I use with his parents it's not that but if you're a girl and then you do that they'll be like this girl is so so not well behaved we can't exactly stand up to our parents I still have that fear of being disrespectful if I try to stand up for it so I just keep quiet and just let it go because you can't say anything you're not allowed to voice out your opinion as a girl you know you'll have that shameful thing like yes I'm a lady yeah it's fine Mommy if you don't if you don't want to hear me out it's fine so yeah that's how it is in Jordan views about how girls should behave extend to the activities that they should or shouldn't do we're watching mea's brother sad play basketball taking Parts not an option for mea do you think that some people think that girls are too weak or too precious to play certain Sports yes of course because they always say this games are is only for boys they are not good for girls what do you think about that I don't think it's fair because um there's a lot of Po girls um can play much better than the boys MH sometimes I wish if I were a boy for these things do you sometimes get bored yes a lot of times a lot of times yeah I wonder how you think when you just look at a group of guys like this and these people you're not allow owed to be around normally but they're just normal young people does it seem sometimes a bit strange that yes of course there all these rules that stop you going anywhere near them yes of course because uh we at the end we are all humans and it's strange for me to not talk with them and see how they think how they live their life s is 21 and he lives at home but he goes out when he wants comes home when he wants smokes in fact he appears to do just about as he pleases so why can't his sisters it's not fair but I don't know why it's it's a issue it's need needs so I don't know why so you've had it maybe you've had it a bit easier than the girls yeah of course I'm I'm living my life as I like yeah does your dad have any rules about sports you can't play or things you can't yeah he have rules but I break it always you break the rules do you think Jordan will change hope think so maybe after 100 200 years maybe after 100 200 years okay so basketball is out pull the trigger but mir's Dad Maran says there are plenty of other activities open to girls in Jordan that are more appropriate shooting for example I prefer girls to to choose a soft uh games than a tough games maybe it would be hurt or something like that girls are more uh soft more cute and you know you have to take care of them and I will start merera and her dad play back gamon a lot and here as usual marwan's winning and while he's concentrating on his moves Mira wants to know why she has to ask permission to socialize with other girls I told you about a girl I don't want to mention her name I don't like that girl because I feel that she is not a good girl I don't want you to move around with that girl because she is a nauy girl she's not a oy you don't know she is uh more liberal than I than I want my daughter to be a liberal girl in marn's eyes is one who goes out with whomever she pleases and doesn't wear the hijab but his daughters are growing up and is interested to know more about her father's views on boyfriends and marriage if I find find some person I want to get married uh with him and they you don't like him and I insist that what will what your reaction will be if you insist about a person you want to get married uh you will take your I will talk to you frankly and honestly uh and freely uh if I find you insist and you have to write to do to choice and to decide but if I find that you will not oby me in this matter you will take that responsible alone I mean I will not support you in getting married someone I don't like what stands in the way of women being equal to men is for the most part is our culture there's a stereotype of women have having to stay at home do the cleaning take care of the children and the men going out but these stereotypes are tough to shift partly because in some cases people believe they're true this comes up as I walk through maser's main Market with's mom masakona the mother will look after the baby much more is more capable of it's in a better way than a father would do that a mother would raise a child from Early Childhood take care of the baby dress the baby bait the baby it's not not to say that the father doesn't help with that he he he does help but I believe the mother does a much better job doing that and you see you're saying that and I have to confess I'm bristling slightly because I understand that I can't breastfeed a baby but apart from that I don't understand why I can't bring it up just as well as a mother can I I'm not saying you can't bring it up you can but it's in the mother more than it is in the father you say that women just have a different role in the home because they're mothers because that is what they are put on Earth to do but do you think that belief in some way reinforces stereotypes about what men and women women should do which perhaps create problems for girls and women it does it does unfortunately does it's 8:30 in the morning and SCH is beginning another day at school 30% more women in lutu are literate than men they're also getting more professional jobs but this success is not appealing to everyone why would you you do if like you got married to a woman who had like uh her career was bigger than yours or she had a bigger job than you guys did she brought in more money than you guys did how would that make you feel first of all I wouldn't marry a woman who has who's bigger than why right she's going to control me and no I wouldn't mind in our culture that is in our culture that is just not allowed would just not part of the culture that that pushes the stereotype that everybody has right I wouldn't mind as long as I have my own job also if if I'm working if my wife is working and I don't work then that be I can't have that yes cuz she's earning more than me my role as a my role as a man in the family is what I don't have a proper role anymore culture and tradition are often used to justify something that appears to be contributing to gender inequality the girls want to talk about labala this is a custom in lutu where a Man's family gives money or cash house to a woman's family ahead of marriage do you think that's right then like taking out the Cs thing yeah it's culture then what can you see because you are marrying that someone you can't even take someone tell for free can you must pay so you have to beay okay so it's basically like a business if I have a daughter and I'm going to give her and I'm going to give my daughter to you I better be compensated somewhere I have to yeah bring me money bring me the cows I I find this really disrespect respectful it's like you're it's like you're buying me well this is uh quite a scene isn't it if there are many more beautiful views in the world I don't think I've ever seen them we've just come about an hour's drive out of miseru and it's in and amongst this extraordinary Countryside that the vast majority of people in lutu live and for many who live and earn their living in villages like this one their lifestyle W have changed a great deal over the years people still tend to cattle they still grow crops and this particular Village is where's great uncle lives and we wanted to come out here because I've had lots of conversations in lutu already just in my few days here where people have said to me well the reason we can't treat boys and girls and men and women exactly the same is because we've got Traditions which we don't want to change that we must respect sh's great uncle and Aunt have lived in this area since 1958 as the family Elder her uncle would be the one to negotiate the price of the labola if she was getting married if schw turned around in 20 years time and said I'm getting married I found a fantastic man I think he's going to be a great husband a great father if we have children but I really don't want you taking money from his family I feel like I'm being sold how would you react to that I will ask her this the question you really think I was sold when I when my family got um Lola from your father's family do you think I was sold when she becomes 21 or whatever she can basically do whatever she wants she's free to she's free to do but if she brings a problem to problem to us and we're going to decide for we'll tell you what to do you'll tell what to do mhm but she's free to do she's free pleases but so you'll tell her what to do but she can ignore you she doesn't sound very free how free is she when she's being told what to do by saying that you would actually tell her what to do aren't you really taking away her freedom to decide I won't tell her what to do I will tell her what is supposed to happen I've been thinking quite a lot about marriage and this tradition here in lutu of a Man's family paying a woman's family when they get married and lots of people have said to me you know this is just a tradition I believe in equality it's just a tradition don't read anything into it I suppose if I'm honest I was a little bit skeptical about that but I've been thinking about how I organized my marriage to my wife and I propose to her because that really is the traditional thing to do in the UK and she took my name when we got married and again I think if you had asked us we' have said well of course we believe in gender equality absolutely this is just a tradition it's just something that happens but just thinking about it in the last 24 hours I wonder if perhaps they AR just simple traditions whether they do have consequences as well I think people around me expect me to do really good things when I become older if you're a woman and you kind of like don't do anything great just like like below average maybe that is that is just like fine and maybe people will be disappointed but if I if I were a guy I think I think it's more accepted if you like don't do great things in life vas's dad Christian and her older brother yoger are helping to prepare an impressive Saturday morning Feast Iceland's a country that's pushing hard for gender equality but some of the old expectations haven't gone away so the freedom to do whatever you want can actually mean trying to do an awful lot more I think you can you know pursue your dreams without getting uh you know punished by the society maybe it's a matter of you know you're free to do all of your dreams as long as you still do all the other things right yeah maybe maybe maybe that's sort of the pressure because responsibility is always added to women yeah yeah but more and more you know young people decide to live alone so it's getting more common that you just pursue your own life without any constraints of the family or I just wonder if Iceland's trying to create a situation where women can work in exactly the same way as men but it's not ready to let go of the idea that it should be women who are in charge at home so right there's a double pressure there which men are not exposed to absolutely I think I think that's absolutely right yeah and when it comes you know especially when the kids are at the young age you know for the first two or 3 years you know sometimes think I think of uh when I think about the the girls you know my daughters having a man will only only slow them down and having a man will only you know get their life more difficult than it should be because they put a lot of I'm afraid they will put a lot of press pressure on them and uh to behave in a certain way and to do things in a certain way because I want them to have uh the freedom of you know do what exactly what they like to do I really believe that iand is going in the right direction and that maybe even in in like five six years when I'll will be all grown up and and work in a company or something that I will for example get the money that I earning and and people will judge me for who I am but but for all vas's optimism her mother thought this has a warning I I have to admit that I thought there was a equality against men and women when I was at your age yeah I was very stupid but I think because that I have opportunity to go to high school universities Etc then I thought it was coming must and and the society was telling me that it was okay that this was not for any debate or we shouldn't be discussing about it because it was obvious that if I were good enough then everything is okay so just just depending on how good I am yeah and I thought okay if I'm going to good enough then I will go all the way we are so you know we are one of the best countes in the world according to this but still we are we have so many yeah we have so many many things to fix and exactly exactly yeah and it takes a long time because uh it's only top of the iceberg that we see and everything is underneath is so you're so much part of us and nobody actually knows how to fix it or what to do no I went into the class and it was me and another girl there and about 11 boys 12 boys because the rest of the girls went in um and the teacher went out of the room for about 5 minutes and we were just working doing our Vis Vision um and one of the boys went oh look there's only two girls in here and love One shout out out gang rape London is one of the most Multicultural cities in the world this is a market just down the road from Lulu's house and there are people from all over shopping and working as well and while I wouldn't for a minute suggest that the UK has dealt with racism as a problem it has made huge strides in the last 30 or 40 years and to make a racist comment or Express a racist opinion is completely unacceptable now but then I listen to Lulu and it sounds like sexism is absolutely pervasive in her life and I don't get the impression that that is being challenged in some way it's almost become acceptable chicken takeaways are every everywhere in London and a teenage night out will often feature one as we eat Lulu's friend beatric tells us about something that happened earlier today um I was I was sitting in class and between these two boys and they were just um they were telling me how bad they want they want to sleep with someone but then they would like commenting about how they would like sleep with me and then n um n have you seen that porn um video have you seen that porn video oh yeah yeah I'll do it like that I do like that and then um was like mate wait what's happening what's happening no just can't it's a joke and I I got really angry actually there's a lot of boys that their parents will never ever ever talk to them about anything like that and the only place they learn about sex is on porn and so that's the only idea they have of it and they don't know what real sex is so if they're with a girl that's what they expect the girl to be like and real girls a like them stand day but what about the boys do Lulu's mates Bob and Zach think that their regular consumption of porn affects how they see girls and women boys do watch porn do you watch porn yeah yeah it just happens like you know I don't think it affects how we we view women it's just a thing you do yeah but I I'd say it brings your standards up a bit still like when you see girls with porn star bodies you just like yeah want that one and I think it also puts a a pressure on cuz you know there's a lot of dirty [ __ ] that goes on to like all that stuff actually people want to do that like talk to me about for instance like the verb to beat which presumably for anyone over the age of 25 means nothing now so if you're going to beat a girl you're going to have sex with her it's the same as sex really yeah I'm going to beat you I'm going to have sex with you it's not got any meaning to it really it's not like oh yeah you're going to have sex really violently or whatever it's just you're just to have sex casually and if I brought a group of girls here around your age and said and they said to you just stop it stop the ratings stop the jokes stop the comments about my appearance I don't want any of it it's not making us feel good all right then would you listen yeah all right cool I wouldn't wouldn't comment on them I just be like all right then cool and then they probably missed the the compliment cuz I that's your point right Zach that actually some of them like this yeah some of them do like this I think I mean they like they they'll sort of deny the like that they like the attention but realistically who doesn't like positive attention yeah you always want to look nice you always wanted people to notice that you look nice so yeah if they if they didn't want to look nice stop wearing makeup in college you know what I mean it's if you're not bothered about your appearance you don't want people to comment on your appearance don't wear makeup don't dress yourself up yeah [Applause] completely a man approached me from behind and at midnight grabbed me from behind and at first I froze I didn't know what to do and before I'll be like oh yeah I'll fight anyone off that say does anything but it's that moment where you're stuck where you can't as a teenager in London Lulu has to be StreetWise and like VI this her Freedom isn't restricted by her parents but where they differ is that Lulu has to be constantly aware of her environment her mom Daisy thinks there's more danger now than when she was growing up I think I just sort of try and reinforce to her to you know think carefully about who she's hanging around with and make sure she knows who they are and who they're friends with and to um always keep her wits about her I think it's definitely harder to be a teenage girl today when I was growing up I could go out when I was 16 or 17 with a group of friends who were girls out clubbing and drinking and would have a good time we could walk home together and be relatively safe um but certainly these days I wouldn't let my daughters walk home at 2:00 in the morning with a group of girls I think there are far too many scary men out there really because of influences from the internet and porn particularly and I would definitely see a lot of them as [Music] Predators marn's beliefs are deeply rooted in Islam any parents love for their children is going to translate into a desire to protect them and inevitably as kids grow up there's a tension between our desire to protect and their desire for a few more freedoms but what's interesting listening to Marwan is that he isn't just concerned with protecting mea from harm he's also worrying about her reputation and his fam's what follows is a definition of equality that says girls and women are equal but different and this is not seen as something which might evolve or can be challenged but something which is fixed sounds incredible huh oh it's nice because when I see the the way that Meera is living there are lots of things that she can't do that a 15-year-old boy could do she can't like what like what she can't meet with friends without your permission yes and she can meet her friends but I have to know uh the the family because I don't like to have a relationship with extreme liberal family is it more important to protect their reputation and to respect your religion than it is for them to be equal in society uh you can say yes yes so actually it's more important that they're safe that they have a good husband that they have a secure home that's more important than whether they're equal to men and boys right uh in our country in our traditions and culture if a a girl is more too liberal I I think men's uh in general they don't like a liberal family or liberal woman they they want a conservative uh lady or woman or wife because they feel more trusty with her they feel that uh she doesn't have uh a love relation before she will give more attention and care and love for her future [Music] husband despite living thousands of miles apart being from very different backgrounds Meera Lulu vigdis and schw are all frustrated that their societies think that girls need to be kept out of Harm's [Music] Way but in lutu there are high rates of rape and the third highest prevalence of HIV in the world that would concern any parent and affect the rules that they set it is very easy to succumb to such pressures from the boy to get involved in sex before you are even ready to to get involved in in sexual relationships like that and it it it is very troubling to me as a mother as I'm sure it is to many other mothers that you will not be um um strong enough to you know to to say no there's also the risk of HIV and AIDS you may not get pregnant but the disease is Rife and no parent myself included would like to find their child in a position where they are HIV positive one mistake one mistake can change your whole life we want to learn caution is of course no bad thing in some circumstances but in others it may be a hindrance I'm spending an evening at Lulu's theater group in southeast London sometimes the girls seem resigned to inequality and lacking something or someone to inspire them to take it on can you name me a female role model do you think there's an example of what I could be Beyonce who else um I forgot her name but she she's a female astronaut what about political Role Models any female politicians you can name in general Inspire honest I don't really know some to be honest I would to be Barack Obama even if it was a man could you could you name a could you name a high-profile female politician isue and it's not only men who stand in the way mothers and sisters can also reinforce the reasons why men and women should be treated differently you know that this is the way that my father raised us and my mother raised us uh to be that the woman or the girl at General uh her her uh position is at home to raise her children to do home homeworks you know it's not about uh uh being fair or unfair uh it's about uh that we have to get used to this uh these rules around us this is the the life that we we live You Know M you have to get used something vigis doesn't want to get used to is that still sometimes she struggles to be taken seriously would you say that you're a feminist yeah the word feminist people don't look at it as it is and people have like they they just hear the word feminist and just think oh she's going to talk about how women should have equal rights for 2 hours I don't even I don't even bother seeing tonight I'm not going to give her a break no and I just I just bother I don't even bother to listen to her but it it shouldn't be that you should be proud to be a feminist it's should be thing yeah yeah but my experience is that there are so many hindrances treasured for women there is a glass roof that um we need to break yeah I I have been trying to do it for you but I probably need your help to to go through yeah yeah I see I'm I'm counting on you no no [Laughter] pressure the lack of any countries in the world where men and women are equal is mirrored by the almost total absence of any one will say that they shouldn't be we say everyone's equal but all the while we're helping to perpetuate or at least tolerate status quo which is making sure that that doesn't happen and if I've learned anything while making this program is that if Alice and Esther and everyone else is going to be equal in this world we can't just wait for gender equality to magically appear it's going to take millions of individual Decisions by parents by teachers by boys and by girls themselves and I guess that comes down to priorities just how much do we want this to happen where does gender equality fit in versus our traditions and our beliefs but let's not kid ourselves here it's not law or education that's standing in the way of equality it's primarily us w

Channel: BBC News

Views: 468,064

Keywords: sexual discrimination, Gender (Organization Sector), gender inequality, BBC News (TV Program), Jordan (Country), Lesotho (Country), Iceland (Country), inequality in gender, inequality of gender, inequality and gender, women inequality, gender equality, freedom, freedom 2014

Id: ayj9EVc2ZLI

Length: 43min 36sec (2616 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 26 2014